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for the ones who get it done. Hey

1:27

everybody, this is Lestrade. Yes,

1:29

yes, I know, AKA Survivor

1:31

Man. And you're listening to

1:33

Brian on Sasquatch Odyssey. Hey

1:57

there, welcome back to Sasquatch Odyssey.

2:00

Thank you so much for clicking play. It is Sunday. I

2:02

hope you've had a great weekend. We have

2:04

an amazing guest lined up for you, but before we

2:06

get there, I want to start by inviting you. If

2:09

you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot

2:12

me an email. You can get me at

2:14

brian at paranormalworldproductions.com. You can head over

2:16

to the website, check it out, become a member there, and

2:18

help support the show. If

2:21

you guys watched the live that we did

2:23

over on YouTube, this has been up for

2:26

about a week or so now. Daniel from

2:28

the UK reached out to me and we

2:30

were going to do this interview with Renee

2:32

Holland from Finding Bigfoot on a different date,

2:35

and unfortunately my schedule wasn't going to allow

2:37

me to be a part of this to

2:39

co-host it with Daniel. Fortunately, things

2:41

changed and I was able to do it. We

2:43

moved it up a week or so and I

2:45

was able to sit down and we had Renee

2:47

Holland on. If you have never heard Renee on

2:50

a podcast, because frankly she doesn't do a whole

2:52

lot of podcasts, I don't know that she's ever

2:54

done one to be honest with you because I've

2:56

never heard her on one, but she does do

2:58

a few conferences. I got to hang out with

3:00

her and eat dinner with her up at the

3:02

Smoky Mountain Bigfoot Conference last year. She is an

3:04

absolute blast to talk to. She's a fun lady.

3:06

She's amazingly smart. We had a really good time

3:08

and I was so glad to get her on

3:10

for this interview. I think you guys are really

3:12

going to enjoy it. If you haven't already, please

3:14

take time to rate and review the show wherever

3:17

you're listening to the podcast. And remember, if you

3:19

haven't picked up your copy of my new book

3:21

Sasquatch Unleashed The Truth Behind The Legend, you can

3:23

go over to our website and get a signed

3:25

copy directly from me there or you can get

3:28

it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or anywhere you

3:30

find fine books. But enough of that. I know

3:32

you guys are ready to get over to Renee's

3:34

interview so I'm going to stop talking. All you

3:37

have to do is sit back, relax, and enjoy

3:39

the show. Transcribed

3:59

by https://otter.ai Hey guys and

4:01

welcome. We have a great podcast

4:03

lined up. Co-hosting with me is Mr.

4:06

Brian King-Shott. How are you Brian? I'm

4:08

good Daniel. How are you sir? Good

4:11

as always. We have a

4:13

very good podcast lined up don't we?

4:16

Yes we do. I've been excited about this and I

4:18

was glad to get the invite to hop

4:20

on and co-host with you today. I'm glad

4:22

it worked out on my scheduling. Yeah, we

4:25

have some comments come through. I'm gonna say

4:27

hi to some people before we get going.

4:29

Let's say hi to Kate. I

4:31

think a few of these are from your

4:33

side Brian. Yep, there's time

4:35

with Tiffany. She's our producer over

4:38

on Paranormal Odyssey with Wayne. Wayne

4:40

in Tennessee. We have Charlotte

4:43

Jay, Facebook user. I take it

4:45

that's my noun because she's put

4:47

kisses at the end of it.

4:49

We then have Terrace

4:52

Smith, Cheryl Peacock. Yep,

4:54

that's Cheryl Peacock here in North Carolina.

4:57

Right, I think Brian instead of

4:59

waiting around and chatting, I reckon

5:01

we just get straight into it.

5:04

Guys, please welcome to the stage

5:06

someone who I'm sure that you'll

5:08

know. Hi Renee, how are you?

5:11

I'm great buddy. How you doing Daniel? I'm

5:13

very well. Hey Brian. Good to see

5:15

you Renee. Thanks so much for being with us. Of

5:18

course. Good to see you again. It's been a minute.

5:20

Last summer I think, yeah. No, I

5:23

couldn't have been almost a year. I

5:25

am so stoked to be here with you both

5:27

today. I don't do a lot of podcasts but

5:29

I so love what you are doing so

5:31

I had to definitely make some time. So

5:33

let's get into this. Renee,

5:35

could you tell us about how

5:37

you got interested into the world

5:39

of cryptids and cryptozoology? I

5:42

don't want to age myself but I think

5:44

my real hair color might get me away.

5:46

I'm a contemporary of my big

5:48

fucking co-host, Cliff Matt

5:50

Bobo. We all grew up when in

5:53

search of those fresh reruns with Leonard

5:55

Nimoy, Bigfoot was everywhere in

5:57

pop culture, the Patterson Gimel,

6:00

film, Daniel, when you wanted to

6:02

watch a movie, you couldn't see it on TV,

6:04

I'd actually go into the cinema. So

6:06

I remember it was the East Cinema

6:08

at Consufo, South Dakota. So this

6:10

would be the early 70s. I grew up seeing

6:13

some clippings in the paper. I grew up in

6:15

South Dakota on the plains of South Dakota for

6:17

you over in the UK or anybody around the

6:19

country. Just think of that. I'm dating myself again

6:21

when I say Little House on the Prairie, but

6:23

I essentially grew up with that

6:25

kind of geography. So there'd be

6:28

a random newspaper clippings. There wasn't so

6:30

much on television at

6:32

that time. You'd hear random newspaper clipping.

6:35

Anderson Gillen's film came out years

6:37

later now. It's about 10 years later. That's

6:40

going around actually in the theater. So my

6:42

dad took me to see that. I

6:44

remember having my mind blown, having

6:46

my dad look at me, being this

6:48

little kid and seeing this giant e-play

6:50

figure on this footage going across the

6:52

screen and looking at that and then

6:54

looking at my dad. And he turns down

6:56

and looks at me and he's like,

6:59

the best part. And really my favorite

7:01

thing about that is if

7:03

that's not real, then how was it? But

7:06

instead of my dad telling me what it was, he really

7:08

asked me what it was. And I think of as we

7:10

then started watching in search

7:12

of and these other shows, which wasn't just Bigfoot,

7:15

it was the Loch Ness Monster, it's Easter Island.

7:17

It's all these mysteries of the world of curiosity.

7:19

So that became the special thing

7:21

for my dad and I. How was

7:24

it made? How did they do that? And

7:27

they're smart about it. Don't let

7:29

anybody hoodwink yet. So between testing

7:31

stunt gear with my dad and watching

7:34

Bigfoot shows and those paranormal mystery shows,

7:36

that's how I initially got into it.

7:38

Could you tell us about your work

7:40

in the field of biology? Yeah, and

7:42

I always raised on the plains

7:46

of South Dakota, but I have always

7:48

loved rivers and woods. And in fact,

7:50

moving out to Washington State, many

7:52

moons ago, I basically left South Dakota high school

7:55

and I came out to Washington State and

7:57

started going to school naturally the first time I went through

7:59

college. I was a physical anthropology major. A lot of

8:01

people don't realize that. Dr. Meljim and I,

8:03

Jeff and I get to have some fun

8:06

conversations. And it wasn't quite what I wanted,

8:08

so I led back into what I originally

8:10

wanted to be when I was young. I

8:12

wanted to go out and study the big

8:14

cats, or bears. Those

8:16

were what really fascinated me the most,

8:19

were big cats and bears. Being

8:21

out here in Washington, getting my degree, I

8:24

went to University of Washington. And specifically,

8:26

I went to the School of Aquatic

8:28

and Fisheries Sciences because they have the best

8:30

program to get me as close as

8:33

possible to study ground bears. It

8:35

was either that or go with 10 Peach and

8:38

Kamchatka, Russia. And those were

8:40

the two places where I could do that. And I

8:42

was fortunate enough to work with the Fisheries Research Institute,

8:44

basically working with the top people in their field. And

8:47

that led me down to, obviously it's funded by,

8:50

where is the money behind science? That always

8:52

is what drives it. Who is the

8:54

person who is doing that

8:56

research first off? What's the hook? What fascinates

8:58

you? What do you wake up thinking about

9:00

and trying to understand better? Then

9:02

who was doing that work? But the kicker? How

9:05

is it getting funded? Or how

9:07

do you bring in another project that

9:10

gets funded? So for me, that led

9:12

me into bear and salmon. Actually, this

9:14

is something I think I've mentioned to you

9:16

before. I work with a lot of indigenous

9:18

people, and it's one of my favorite pops.

9:21

Make sure you can see this. That

9:23

is the mask and tribal image for

9:25

the interaction between bear and salmon, which

9:27

is why does the salmon go up

9:29

that creek? Or how does

9:31

a bear recognize all

9:33

of the biometrics on a bear needs to put

9:35

on the caloric intake. So

9:38

it's gonna survive where it is in the hierarchy,

9:40

how that fish knows where to go. It blows

9:42

my mind to this thing we still don't know.

9:45

We still don't understand why all of

9:47

these fish are pooling in front of

9:49

this particular creek, their

9:51

natal stream that they'll come

9:53

back to, that they'll go thousands of miles. It's

9:55

just mind blowing. They'll come back

9:58

to that spot. And when they go for that, initial

10:00

pulse. We think this population of

10:02

fish, these fish are genetically different

10:04

than a fish that went into

10:06

Eagle Creek or Happy Creek. And there's all

10:08

these fish, hundreds, sometimes thousands

10:10

of fish pulled up this little three

10:13

foot wide creek. And you think

10:15

it's one big pulse, but there's all these little micro

10:17

pulses. I won't nerd out here

10:19

with the details, but we still don't know

10:21

what is that trigger that pushes them. We

10:24

started this research in the 40s. We still

10:26

don't know. Is it the salinity of the

10:28

water? Is it temperature? Is it oxygen? Is

10:30

it the diurnal factor? Water flow

10:33

of whelms? I love that

10:35

stuff. Basically, I like to tell people, I've

10:37

been this little curiosity

10:39

driven organism from birth. I mean, I

10:41

was given a baby alive doll as

10:44

a child. And, you know,

10:46

I had it for one day and they showed me

10:48

how to take care of it. And then I think

10:50

it was that next day after Christmas, I was upstairs

10:52

with scissors taking it apart. How did it work? I

10:54

mean, my mom's horrified, but she's okay. We

10:57

see what path you're on. So that's what led

10:59

me to science. And from there, it's funded by

11:01

salmon research. So I then was

11:03

employed by NOAA National Oceanic

11:05

Atmospheric Administration. And I basically

11:08

niched myself in with river restoration.

11:11

So I worked on a restoration

11:13

team. So I basically am an

11:15

expert on that river system of

11:18

the alpine environment, all the

11:20

way down to that estuary. So that

11:22

includes the water, the

11:24

trees, the rocks, the air,

11:27

the critters from the brown

11:29

bear down to the macron vertebrae and the Bigfoot

11:31

that might be there too. That

11:33

sounds like an awesome career. It's definitely

11:35

a little different than Sasquatch research, that's

11:38

for sure. And we'll tell you this

11:40

one of my first days, because my love for Bigfoot really

11:42

is I love sharing

11:44

reports and the stories. And some

11:47

of them are fun. But some of them are the ones

11:49

you're like, how do you explain this? And that's what keeps

11:51

me intrigued on this phenomena. But you can categorize

11:53

a lot of those out. But what are those ones at

11:55

the end of the day? This person has everything to lose,

11:57

nothing to gain, ridicule and scorn.

12:00

or there's multiple witnesses, those ones that

12:02

just stop being attracted. Ever

12:04

since I was a young child, that's been

12:06

my situation. Now, I lay myself out the

12:08

Pacific Northwest, the hot bed

12:11

of sightings, and I am working

12:13

with tribal members. From day

12:15

one, I knew that it is not respectful

12:17

to bring up Bigfoot in

12:20

an indigenous environment. Let them start

12:23

the conversation, if you will. So

12:25

I had been working there for maybe six

12:27

years before an intern

12:29

through the long story for another time

12:31

though, but an intern missed their

12:34

fairy and showed up late and comes up

12:36

and changed the subject. He was like, hey,

12:38

Renee, how's your Bigfoot coming in? I

12:40

got a talk into by their elder. He

12:42

literally got up and came over and scolded

12:44

me, but that's another conversation. Actually, one of

12:46

the things I love doing is the connections

12:48

I have made. Growing up in South Dakota,

12:50

very close to Lakota and Lakota Sioux, it's

12:53

one of the reasons my connections and my paradigm,

12:55

how I look at the natural world was

12:58

definitely influenced by them, my grandmother

13:00

and my indigenous friends growing up.

13:02

But throughout the show,

13:04

I met so many other indigenous

13:06

people and I've continued to

13:09

work those relationships going

13:11

forward. And that's one of the things

13:13

I actually cherish the most. What is

13:15

your actual opinion of Bigfoot? So

13:18

funny, the Renee Sayer, the skeptical

13:20

saying, I'm scully with

13:22

three molders. I love Bigfoot.

13:25

I am fascinated by Bigfoot and driven

13:27

by curiosity. It's the reason I became a

13:29

scientist. Question is, what

13:31

is Bigfoot in my opinion? After

13:33

all these years, I honestly still don't

13:36

know Daniel because I've never quote unquote

13:38

seen a Bigfoot. I personally

13:42

have had experiences

13:44

that I can't explain. I

13:46

know people near and dear

13:49

to my heart who swear that they've

13:51

seen a Sasquatch. I still don't

13:53

know. It's one of the things that as

13:55

busy as I am keeps me connected because

13:57

I want to make sure that

14:01

my Bigfoot community and protect

14:03

of my big community. I don't want people

14:05

to be folks or hood wing are mocked

14:08

and ridiculed and made fun of because there

14:10

is something going on here that still

14:12

fascinates me. I spent over a decade of my

14:14

life. We started filming funny Bigfoot. Brian, I think

14:17

we talked about this. My nephew didn't

14:19

even come out to my hip when I left the

14:21

Shinnoh T64. I spent over a decade of my

14:23

life. We were the four of us nine

14:25

months of the year. One thing I do like to say is I

14:27

think diving into it is I can see

14:30

a lot more of maybe

14:32

people taking an update to money off of it

14:35

or something. And I don't mean to be cynical.

14:37

I am even more fascinated and

14:39

intrigued after all of this time.

14:41

But for the record, yes,

14:44

I still don't believe it's a biological and different

14:46

species. I just don't see the evidence for

14:48

that as much as Mel Jerome and clip

14:50

will chuckle with me or on a

14:53

rib me. I'm here as a voice

14:55

to say, raising

14:57

the bar for scientific inquiry,

15:00

calling out the scientific community.

15:02

Brian, you had a busy

15:04

table yourself. That's the hard part. When you're

15:06

a speaker at these conferences, you don't

15:08

get away and see the other presentations.

15:10

But basically, when I went to Tennessee,

15:13

see Darby and I, that's

15:15

when we first met and he was like, I'm so

15:17

excited. And we talked bears and we talked DNA and

15:19

we talked genetics and we talked raising

15:22

the bar. And I know you want to talk a little bit

15:24

about this later, but my presentation

15:26

was saying, look, I

15:29

want Bigfoot to be real, understand

15:32

how hard it is to let's

15:34

take Bigfoot off the table. How

15:36

hard it is to

15:38

change the paradigm

15:40

or an accepted belief

15:42

or protocol in the

15:44

academic world, not even about Bigfoot. And

15:47

that was one thing I did in Tennessee,

15:49

talked about how the established beliefs were this,

15:52

a large cataclysmic event. I use

15:54

Mount Saint-Holland as an example. Even

15:56

then, it's so hard to get people to

15:58

change their years. policy work

16:00

and makes policy is

16:03

eventually motivated, run by

16:05

politics and big corporations.

16:07

I basically said simmer that down.

16:09

Now you have the Bigfoot community. You

16:11

have people who will try to make it

16:13

an opportunity where they can make money off

16:15

of it, number one. Or number

16:17

two, when a study is being funded, it's

16:19

so important to look at. Rule

16:22

is a drag of it. How is it

16:24

funded and who's sourcing it? Yeah,

16:26

it's like Bigfoot and the UK.

16:28

It's a very skeptical thing. People

16:30

either believe or they don't.

16:32

But then having the possibility that it

16:34

could be, I think it's

16:37

incredible. One thing that we talked about when I

16:39

was introduced to you, I love

16:41

that it was sitting down watching these shows

16:43

with your grandpa and then your nan eventually.

16:45

That's why I am on this podcast

16:47

talking to you. I love what you're doing. Bigfoot

16:50

to me is still this mystery that

16:52

we still don't understand. And as a

16:54

scientist, zero is a data

16:56

point, people. And you don't get to conduct

16:59

research in an envelope, be in

17:01

an echo chamber. You have

17:03

to share your information. You

17:05

have to be open to other ideas. Sometimes you

17:08

can't just, yes, I know and shoot the other

17:10

side down. And the other half of my Tennessee

17:12

presentation was as a scientist, understanding what

17:14

it's like to change policy and

17:17

protocols. Now it's happening to you in the Bigfoot community.

17:19

Oh my gosh. And which is what I was speaking

17:21

to you, Daniel, this is not

17:24

just fans of

17:26

a football club or needle

17:28

coin or dachshund lovers. This

17:31

is a emotional loaded community

17:33

and you can get some

17:36

hotheads in the sun, oddballs

17:38

in here that you don't encounter in other

17:40

places and people can get upset quickly as

17:42

I think you've already experienced. And

17:45

it was one thing I really wanted you to understand. So

17:47

I'm always calling out that

17:50

the first thing I've been saying to people going to town

17:52

halls is curiosity. Get outside and discover

17:54

for yourself. And I love that Bigfoot

17:56

is a vehicle to get kids excited about

17:59

the outdoor world. I've been saying this for 15 years.

18:01

It was what kept me going. Because otherwise I

18:03

would have lost it while I over get down this

18:05

TV show. I like to call it the reality

18:07

TV circus side show that

18:09

I did for a decade. It was, you know,

18:11

I signed up for. I thought I was heading

18:13

off to graduate school, but I digress. Bigfoot

18:16

gets kids excited about the outdoor world,

18:18

number one. Number two, you got

18:21

to get out there and understand your environment.

18:24

And you might not find Bigfoot, but you're going

18:26

to learn a lot about the natural world. And you're going

18:28

to learn about what we need to protect. Then

18:30

number three, if you really want to

18:32

do it right, everybody just

18:34

raise the bar on science. Get the junk

18:37

science and that low hanging fruit and that

18:39

clip bait BS that's out there. And

18:42

here's the thing. I get ticked off when the people

18:44

are pretending it to be a real scientific

18:48

adventure, a real scientific

18:50

research. And it's enough. And I'll

18:52

digress there, but it's a mockumentary of

18:54

that. Haven't fried things at Huckleberry. Those guys

18:56

are great. They're not pretending that it's a

18:59

real show. And my knowledge finding Bigfoot is

19:01

the only show where we had it written

19:03

in our contract. Anybody faked anything? Hold

19:06

on. And we actually executed

19:08

that. Now, I'm not saying

19:10

people didn't plot something and fake us out

19:12

or that Cliff and Bobo didn't take a

19:14

hot air balloon the whole way. And it

19:16

was some adventure. But we were doing those

19:18

night investigations. And if we heard something or

19:21

we collected something, we weren't faking

19:23

the calls or faking tracks. At least

19:25

to my knowledge, we actually demanded it. You

19:27

know, we were one of those

19:29

early shows of we're going out

19:31

and doing this. My favorite part of finding Bigfoot

19:34

is you could sit there and watch these witness

19:36

encounters and reports. We would go there. We would

19:38

attempt to do an investigation. We'd do a recreation

19:40

with it. We do an investigation. What happened there

19:43

was really happening. And making

19:45

full of vision is really boring. Doing

19:47

those night investigations would be a couple minutes

19:50

where sometimes six hour adventures. You're going to get

19:52

a flyby from a cat. It's so important

19:54

to me that misinformation,

19:56

disinformation right now is

19:58

so rampant. It's

20:00

so hard before and now it's even

20:02

worse. I travel the country. I keep

20:04

myself busy with a lot of, I

20:06

do public speaking, I've done a few

20:08

TED talks, and I speak on many

20:11

topics. Othering and belonging, which I am trying

20:13

to boring into a big room. Me, because it's

20:15

so painful. I speak on

20:17

LGBTQ equality. I speak on science

20:20

education, STEM, critical thinking. These are

20:22

all things. We need

20:25

critical thinking. We need to raise thought as,

20:27

have you read the saying in the book that

20:29

I was telling you about where he

20:31

basically covers all of those, all

20:34

of the biases, all those, you

20:36

need to educate yourself on the

20:38

pseudo-phallacies. All of that, you

20:40

can be there ready to jump

20:43

out of the way at that next, you know, hugster. Because there

20:45

were so many people out there who were just trying to make

20:47

about 15 minutes of fame or

20:49

whatever it may be. But I'm happy to see a

20:51

lot of people are starting to talk about it. I'm

20:54

going to move into the next question because

20:56

you started to answer it for me. And

20:58

I think what you've done there with Finding

21:00

Big Book and everyone I talked to, they

21:03

see you guys as the

21:05

original people that started to

21:07

publicize it because you guys

21:09

started quite early on. I

21:11

don't know the exact date when you started Finding

21:14

Big Book, but they said that

21:16

you're like the original guys

21:18

who started looking for this

21:20

kind of creature or being...

21:22

Thank you. I should be throwing some

21:24

kind of gangster pimp coat on there to find some music. We're

21:27

not the first. We are standing on,

21:29

I'd like to say, the big shoulders of those

21:31

who came before us. Mom's request, oh my gosh,

21:33

Doug Hiteck. But Doug was doing way predates

21:35

what Finding Big Book was doing. Finding Big

21:37

Book was that first running

21:40

where you're doing that aspect of it. But

21:42

we are in no way the first. We stand

21:44

on the shoulders of Doug Hiteck,

21:46

other smaller productions. And then of course,

21:48

the originals who were actually doing those

21:50

expeditions trying to find it. And

21:53

going back, they got Meldram. Before

21:55

Meldram was over Krantz, should we go down the list

21:57

of... I don't know if you want more questions, but...

22:00

John Green, Spinner Naggle, all

22:02

of them. Renee DeHinde, I mean, what an amazing

22:04

personality. It goes on and on. I don't want

22:06

to leave names off, but it's very sweet

22:08

of you to say. I think in that concept,

22:10

and we hit at just the right time with

22:12

this goofy group that they threw us together

22:14

and all my dysfunctional world family, my

22:17

Bigfoot brothers, I mean, the timing of

22:19

it. But I think what hit was that,

22:22

and I say this in a lot of my presentations,

22:24

that Bigfoot comes up. Even if there

22:26

wasn't that show in Bigfoot. If

22:28

Matt Bobo would have still been doing what

22:30

they were doing. But let

22:32

me a Bigfoot story. I always want to drop my tail away

22:34

and say, okay, what is going on here? And then they tell me

22:37

about it and they love having me because I might be like, wait,

22:39

what? Or really? I

22:43

would have been doing that either

22:45

way. Now, yeah, my one request is

22:48

call it for what it is. Are you

22:50

entertainment? Are you really? That's

22:52

the thing. Watch out for that. And then

22:55

now we're getting into, you know, with

22:57

AI and science, harder and you have to

22:59

have a teener lens, but it's

23:01

now more than ever. As I say to

23:03

my kids when I go to this presentation,

23:05

the internet and all the technology being thrown at

23:07

you, my generation is we at

23:09

least, it was called encyclopedia

23:12

or library. You have to walk inside

23:14

and look it up and check it out. Can

23:16

you guys have this little computer in your

23:18

hand and all the answers? But

23:20

it's all the more harder. What people will believe on the

23:23

internet is just so disheartening.

23:25

Make yourself the best scientist

23:27

naturalist. You guys

23:29

have to invent your sources. How

23:32

did you when I get involved in

23:34

fun Bigfoot? People

23:37

were easily getting online and this is the, remember

23:39

the first time I was with my sister. And

23:41

one of the first things we looked at because

23:43

of our dad is we were

23:45

like, let's go find a Bigfoot store. And

23:47

that's how we found the BFRO. So that's when I became

23:49

aware of the BFRO. Flash

23:51

forward, it's years later, my dad had passed

23:54

away and I was going through some

23:56

of his belongings and I found some big book clippings and it

23:58

made me feel very young and it made me feel. close

24:00

to my dad again. So I wanted to

24:02

find a big food store where I was doing fieldwork

24:04

and my main project was on the Olympic Peninsula. I

24:07

sent an email to Matt

24:09

Moneymaker. Matt responds. Matt for

24:11

my number calls me. This

24:13

is like 2003 maybe to just

24:16

condense this. I do remember, you're going to

24:18

be the Jane Goodall Sasquatch. It's going to

24:20

be a woman who finds one. They

24:22

come very close to women because women aren't intimidating. This

24:25

is not me mocking. I'm just trying to do the

24:27

different voice of Matt and I remember saying with all

24:29

due respect, I don't believe it's a real animal

24:31

but I love a big food story. I

24:34

am a field biologist and I work with

24:36

salmon. So for the longest time, there would

24:38

be a comment on the BFRO page talking

24:41

about working with a biologist

24:43

at NOAA, Collars Elkin,

24:45

he was referring to me. So I

24:48

signed an NDA and I say

24:50

this, it's really interesting. I say I'm not a

24:52

BFRO member, not to throw shade at

24:54

the BFRO. I am constantly

24:57

applauding, collect data, just

25:00

be select, have a

25:02

system that applies everywhere, whatever you're

25:04

studying, do good science. So

25:07

I applaud the BFRO and what they're doing. I just

25:09

keep my perspective, I like to

25:11

stay a little bit removed. So that's how I

25:13

wound up with a show. I had

25:15

an online wink relationship with Matt where I would

25:18

leave bait out there. I would be going out

25:20

there three days a week to these field sites

25:22

where there are total hot spots. And I would

25:24

also, a part of the year would

25:26

be out there months on end doing

25:29

my survey. So that was for over a decade

25:31

that I was doing that. And then finally

25:33

met Matt in person and then I was supposed to be

25:36

heading out, I was at NOAA during all this

25:38

time working with NOAA, working with the lower Elwha

25:41

Dam Removal Project was going on. At

25:43

that point, the largest dam removal

25:45

in the history and now the Klamath

25:48

is coming down and that is the

25:50

largest dam removal project. So salmon, we

25:52

were basically studying the pre-dam removal. That

25:54

led to a movement study. I was

25:56

basically tracking little baby salmon, single

25:59

all over and... Same thing is happening

26:01

now down on the Klamath, which is gorgeous

26:03

rock country right there, and up to near

26:05

Willow Creek and all that. But that was

26:07

what I was doing. Matt then contacted me.

26:09

I was supposed to be heading to grad school. Next thing I knew, I

26:12

was filming a pilot because I thought

26:14

it was going to be like, oh, I get to go on

26:16

this trip to Alaska, which is one of my favorite places. I

26:18

did a bunch of research up there with brown bears. Basically

26:21

what part of the salmon a brown bear eats

26:23

is what my research was. It turned into what

26:25

part of the brown bear a bigfoot eats. I

26:29

filmed the pilot not thinking that it would be over

26:31

a decade of my life. I know I've done some

26:33

interviews and spoke to this. I'm very much

26:35

trying to always mentor that next generation.

26:37

Do what you're passionate about. Find

26:39

that person who's doing what you

26:41

want to do or is close to it and make

26:43

them your mentor. Stay

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28:25

here I was doing what I wanted to do. I was supposed to

28:27

head off to grad school. I do

28:29

this little trip and all of a sudden they say,

28:31

I'm under contract. They're like, hey, this trip off.

28:33

I'm like, wait, what? Honestly, guys, I was devastated.

28:35

I was physically ill. I was like,

28:37

no, I'm on this other path. So,

28:40

where I'm going with this is, sometimes in

28:42

the moment, a door will close. And

28:44

you think this is awful and maybe another

28:46

door opens. I was like, okay, maybe this

28:49

is where I'm supposed to be. And then

28:51

that door closed and actually I wasn't supposed

28:53

to be at Oregon State University. Then

28:55

four years later, I find out, oh, that

28:57

was okay. And now I'm here and I

28:59

love this part of it. But then there's

29:01

this other aspect of it. There's a lot of,

29:03

it can be toxic working in reality TV. There's

29:06

all these downsides of it. That's a door that seems

29:08

like it's closed there, but that opens something else. Some

29:11

musician, media friends of mine we were talking about

29:13

earlier, Brian, who I was miserable

29:17

for a period of time filming the show because

29:19

I'm like, yeah, it's the closest thing to actually,

29:21

we really were trying. We would have a crew, we'd

29:23

go as small as we could. We would be as

29:26

cloaked as we could, as stealth

29:29

as possible. We're working with

29:31

some confines of a network and a production

29:33

company. All of those limits

29:35

feel really handicapped. When we

29:37

got some traction and all of a sudden

29:39

we were in this little budget, big ad

29:42

dollar pop culture hit show, we got

29:45

our contracts rewritten. Number one thing, nothing

29:48

is fake. Number two, one

29:51

of us gets to go and he really squatch without

29:53

the whole camera crew. We took

29:55

those moments to do that, but it was really

29:57

hard. But I sit with that remembering that one

29:59

door closes, closes, another one opens it, always look

30:02

for that opportunity that is speaking

30:04

to your heart and taking your right path.

30:06

Because the universe for whatever is always trying to

30:08

knock you off. If you're true

30:10

to yourself, you're where you're supposed to be. That's

30:13

one of the things that Cliff and I have

30:15

had so many conversations about in private, about the

30:17

show and the 10 years that you guys spent

30:20

doing and the things that people don't get to

30:22

see behind the scenes and how that affected you

30:24

guys long term, even after the

30:26

show went off the air. It's some

30:28

amazing conversations. Cliff and I've had quite

30:30

a few of those over drinks. I

30:32

love the approach that you've always taken

30:34

from the skeptical science part of

30:36

this. I'm a very skeptical person. I think you and I

30:38

talked about that in Tennessee. I had a

30:40

guy on the show that I thought was going to tell me a

30:43

Bigfoot encounter story. I famously don't get

30:45

into people's stories. Before they come on, I hear him for

30:47

the first time. He was a doctor,

30:49

he was a PhD in primatology. Dr.

30:51

Chirot, he starts talking about the mythology of

30:53

Bigfoot. It was clear to me very early

30:55

on, he didn't believe that Bigfoot was an

30:57

undiscovered biological species very much like yourself. We

31:00

got into this conversation because it's difficult for me

31:02

as a skeptic. I'm about 85% there on Bigfoot.

31:06

I haven't seen one, so I'm not 100% there. This

31:09

is the problem I have with reconciling.

31:11

I have friends, very close friends, people

31:13

like Cliff. He wrote the

31:15

foreword to my book and I still

31:18

can't be 100% there with him in that these things

31:22

are real biological species. My

31:25

show is based on encounter stories of people that

31:27

I believe have had encounters with what

31:29

they believe to be Bigfoot. How

31:31

do you reconcile that as a person first

31:33

and foremost that's into this and

31:36

a scientist? How do you reconcile that

31:38

part of it in separating the science

31:40

from the anecdotal stories and the people

31:42

that are involved in these stories? When

31:45

I did a TED call, and they get to name them,

31:47

and I'm like, me as

31:50

curiosity has driven my Bigfoot. Basically, in

31:52

that talk, I think it was like 2016, was saying,

31:55

I believe the majority of the reports, I'm telling them

31:57

just all reports, people just coming in saying, I saw

31:59

they. but not just sitting down and really analyzing

32:01

because you have this shotgun, thousands

32:04

and thousands of reports. I think the majority

32:06

of them are mis- I

32:17

think you have people who do hoaxes and I

32:19

stand by this because I remember the guys always

32:21

saying, hoaxers are always gonna come out and brag

32:24

about it and I'm like, that's the best hoax.

32:27

The longer you keep somebody believing it's real, the

32:30

better you're laughing at home sitting by your campfire

32:32

or whatever. Run those together

32:34

and I stand by this. I think covers

32:37

well in the upper 90s. I do.

32:40

Roll all those away though. Roll all those up

32:42

and let's just say, I'm very tongue in cheek

32:44

with like 0.0 is in the sun, whatever. At

32:47

the end of the day though, this is the part where I'm

32:49

on this podcast with you guys and still tell them about this,

32:51

why I spent a decade of my life in the

32:53

woods. At the end of the

32:55

day, you cannot explain not

32:57

many of them, but they're all the ones that

32:59

you cannot find. You just cannot

33:01

find them. That's why I'm fascinated. That's

33:03

why this phenomenon persists. Now let's bring

33:05

this role to the goal. How

33:08

do I reconcile that as a scientist? Science

33:11

is a paradigm. How I view the world, I treat

33:13

it very much not like just the subject that a

33:15

kid might take in school, but it's also a verb.

33:18

How I approach problem solving,

33:20

the scientific method. As a

33:22

trained scientist, this is one

33:24

thing that bring it back guys,

33:26

raise in the bar, call out the Bigfoot

33:28

community to employ the scientific method. Own

33:31

up on pseudo-phallacies and make yourself the

33:33

best scientist. Make yourself the best

33:35

critical thinker. So if you agree and

33:38

have this belief that it's a biological

33:40

species, go start hanging out with the

33:42

groups, think the other thing. Don't just put yourself in

33:44

an echo chamber with everybody and give you a bunch

33:47

of yes, then. Because then you're just falling flat. Nothing.

33:50

You've got to challenge and push. We used to

33:52

think that the earth was flat. We used to

33:54

think of like the video centra eggs with

33:56

some rebaltering that were constantly.

33:58

That's what the riff was saying. method

34:00

is about. Retesting, you can

34:02

see it in physics. Einstein was so

34:05

ahead of his time in using math

34:08

or even previous civilizations used math

34:10

and science, they were onto something

34:12

and then we test it and then maybe a

34:14

new piece comes in and fits and the puzzle

34:17

comes together and you test it and you retest

34:19

it and you know hypothesis, you

34:21

try to disprove it so that you prove

34:23

your opinion. It brings

34:25

me back to multidisciplinary science is

34:28

so important. That's answered from

34:30

myself and more of a field than I

34:32

am. It comes in from geology, it

34:34

comes in from fisheries,

34:36

sociology, animal behaviors. It's

34:39

not just one field. You overlap

34:41

them. You don't need to

34:43

have disagreements to push. Somebody's

34:46

going through their thesis or even to get their doctorate.

34:48

They're going to go through that board and have their

34:50

exam and they're going to test and they're going to

34:52

have a fighter at you and that's the point. Then

34:55

the scientific thing, again, back to Tennessee,

34:58

when you get the PhDs up here real

35:00

high and they're like stuck in their

35:02

way, it used to be all the damn

35:04

guys and now we're like actually putting

35:07

the wood out is bad. Leaving the

35:09

wood in the system is actually more natural.

35:11

It took forever as those guys, that's what

35:13

they were educated and trained and then they

35:15

get up in the policy and they're making

35:17

the decisions as the corporations are bringing the

35:19

money and who makes the rules, who writes

35:22

the regulations. To change that is a long

35:24

frustrating process. With the data showing, that's

35:26

not the way to do it. That's to

35:28

note science isn't a process and it's a method. You

35:30

can apply that in the big world just to add

35:32

to that Brian because I feel like I don't want

35:35

to evade your question there. So yeah, I don't believe

35:37

undiscovered biological species. I'd love for it to be real.

35:39

I would love nothing more to see. Everything

35:42

that I've seen or experienced that resonates and

35:45

explains, if you take, again, I'm not going

35:47

to be in an echo chamber and say,

35:49

I'm right and you're wrong and throw your

35:51

data out. Everything that of these

35:53

strange reports that can't be anything else,

35:55

you can't just throw them out. If

35:58

I look at those... If

36:00

I look at the whole historical record, which

36:02

is the oral traditions of indigenous people around

36:04

the world, you don't tell you.

36:06

The majority of them say it's not a flesh and

36:09

blood animal. It's something beyond science. Call

36:11

it what you will. Mapei beliefs

36:13

align much more in that realm

36:16

than a biological species. Then of course

36:18

everybody is, oh gee, she's even the fair

36:20

and normal. Ihne, Boghulo, it's

36:23

only he's seen UFOs, members of our

36:25

crew while filming the show. We've seen odd

36:27

lights. I've seen orbs. I've never

36:29

seen a UFO. I've heard weird sounds. I've

36:32

seen weird eye shine. I've

36:34

seen and experienced a lot

36:36

of odd things. But track

36:38

nerds, I say it nerd affectionately, I'm

36:40

a nerd myself, track nerds are all

36:42

like, look, here's physical evidence. And I'm

36:44

like, okay, let's look at your back evidence.

36:47

And I'm going crazy. And then I'm like, okay,

36:49

now this is this track that there's no way

36:51

to fake it. But this track set

36:53

now goes into a dry creek bed and then just

36:55

stops. How do you explain that? So

36:58

you don't cherry pick your data. So

37:00

that then says it's something beyond.

37:04

So that's why I lean in that I

37:06

believe it's something beyond the

37:09

current grass. What

37:11

that is, I don't know. But what I don't appreciate

37:13

is in the Bigfoot's vanity, when

37:15

somebody says it's this and then they're just like

37:17

mocking the other side, I'm like, then prove it then. Who

37:19

are you to tear that side down? Can

37:22

we all collectively work together? We're

37:24

in this fringe community where we're getting people

37:26

teasing us or rolling their eyes at us,

37:29

let's work together, let's tear each other down.

37:31

I'm all about humor and keeping it

37:34

light. I'm going to tell you, you

37:36

asked me some UK Bigfoot questions. And I

37:38

was like, I got to be honest with you, I just

37:40

got to go rewatch that episode. And then that,

37:42

of course, as you understand, we film hours and hours

37:44

and it gets edited down to this or sometimes

37:47

what I'm saying, some of those clips were

37:50

talking about it weeks later because

37:52

you film it, edited, we

37:55

got to get a bite or word and

37:57

then it's I'm in a different location or we're at a

37:59

different location. location and filling something months,

38:02

weeks later. So yeah, I'm having a little

38:04

PTSD after that whole rewatching episode. All of

38:06

a sudden, I start getting a flood of

38:08

memories on to get the reference about that.

38:11

I'm going to go now into

38:13

the UK episodes and it's my

38:15

final topic. Before we

38:17

go into the UK episodes of Fine and Big

38:19

Book though, what is your

38:21

favorite episode on Fine and Big Book? That

38:25

is such a hard question because there's different

38:27

favorites for different reasons. Here's where I

38:29

got the best food, where I

38:31

could get the best spa body treatment or something.

38:34

If you ever noticed those final

38:36

night investigations or something, it would always be Cliff

38:38

and I would have to do the hard fight. So it would

38:40

be like when I met amazing people, so

38:42

many different reasons. There's not just one. I

38:44

will say some of them was

38:47

going to Nepal was amazing. I'd always

38:49

have wanted to go there. It was

38:51

one of my bucket list items. I

38:53

went early. Second, we were done

38:55

wrapping the other place and we knew we were

38:57

going to be going there. Everybody else was home

38:59

for the break. Then I

39:01

went to Nepal early and I spent

39:04

time and got acclimated. Then I went

39:06

up to Tibet and I went

39:08

to the highest monastery in the world and

39:10

saw the holy mauler literally with

39:12

my eyes up the watershed. I'm

39:15

a restoration ecologist. Watersheds are

39:18

my being. I'm detecting watersheds. That's what I'm

39:20

about. So to see this

39:23

ultimate watershed, I'm a fossil here within Mennonite.

39:25

Out of that was just the best. The

39:28

random ones. Really the kids and amazing people that

39:30

I met. Going to Bluff

39:32

Creek with Bob Gimlin on

39:34

horseback. First time he'd ever been back

39:36

there. It's like going to the Vatican with

39:38

coke. How do you beat that?

39:41

I was really nerding out there, but

39:43

it wasn't about the big foot aspect

39:46

of it. Bob Gimlin had

39:48

a lot of overlap. He's this

39:50

amazing sweet man and he's fatigued.

39:52

I grew up with a lot

39:54

of ranch fellas who are small,

39:56

but they're just senile powerhouses. That's

39:58

Bob. He may not be

40:01

tall in stature, but he's powerful and larger than

40:03

life. And even though my dad was like six,

40:05

seven, there were just so many overlaps. They

40:07

were both into boxing. They both came from

40:10

ranches and horses. They both

40:12

had this daredevil evil, can evil overlap.

40:14

And then they both were obviously Bigfoot.

40:18

Bob and I went on a walk. It was really

40:20

funny because we landed, Bob invited me out and went

40:22

for a walk and had this

40:24

beautiful little meeting and came back and he

40:26

was, I think the guys were ribbing me

40:28

a little bit and Bob was all protective of me. It

40:30

was really sweet. We're both in Washington state. I've just been

40:33

so busy. Reminds me, I need to shout

40:35

out to him. I'm overdue for a

40:37

non Bigfoot conversation to visit to Bob. So

40:39

off the top of my head, those are

40:41

two that immediately jump out. But

40:44

it's really about those town halls, meeting

40:46

those kids. For me, meeting all those

40:48

junior future naturalists that have that look of

40:50

wonder, enthusiasm in their eyes. And they want

40:52

to go and find out what they put

40:54

in themselves. That was my

40:56

favorite part. To be completely

40:58

honest, I think that's probably my

41:01

favorite part. Seeing you guys with

41:03

Bob in Bluff Creek,

41:05

it is incredible. I don't think you could

41:07

ask for anything better than that. What

41:09

an honor. My last couple of

41:12

questions for you is when you

41:14

came over to the UK and

41:17

you were filming finding Bigfoot, what were

41:20

your impressions of Bigfoot

41:23

in the UK? Always did

41:25

our research going in. There's

41:27

Lynn, the folklore is to now I love it.

41:29

You get to see her in paranormal. I remember

41:31

that show was coming out because I was under

41:33

contract. We could not do the show, but I

41:35

actually suggested Lynn to them.

41:37

And I was like, here's a fabulous

41:39

folklore. I love seeing how she has

41:41

continued on. The folklore behind the green

41:43

man, Ben McDouie

41:46

and the gray man. It's up there. There's a

41:48

history here by you guys

41:50

took down all your trees down there and build your

41:52

houses. So even though stories and reports go back to

41:54

the 15th and 16th century, there's

41:57

just no habitat in my opinion. I would think

41:59

that I. get over there. So

42:01

coming down to your neck of the

42:03

woods, I'm like, corridor connectivity is

42:06

critical to all known species. Whatever

42:08

species you are, fox bear, whatever,

42:10

corridor connectivity is critical to

42:12

your habitat survival. It would

42:15

be so difficult down there in the southern part

42:17

of the island. Now you get out to the

42:19

Cairngorms, and that's so

42:22

similar to the Pacific Northwest. I actually have

42:24

a friend of mine from Uni to use with

42:26

language from back from my college days. She's

42:28

actually a scientist that's up there at Cromartie,

42:30

right? There are at the outlet near Loch

42:32

Ness, Moray First. So I

42:34

had been out to visit her, not

42:37

while we were filming that time, but another time I

42:39

went back to the UK and was

42:41

able to visit with her. So yeah, you have

42:43

more habitat on the north part of your big island,

42:45

but in the southern part, yeah, I would

42:47

be a little bit more skeptical. But then again, if

42:49

you look at reports throughout the US, there's these areas

42:51

where there seems to be open space.

42:53

But I think I

42:56

was skeptical, but not cynical.

42:58

And that's the difference. I always like

43:00

to say this in an interview, cynicism,

43:04

zealotry, skepticism is right there in the middle where

43:06

you want to be. I think believe some are

43:09

not still say always question, we still look and

43:11

make sure that the sources being a skeptic is

43:13

a good thing. Now I'm always

43:15

out in the forest. I think it goes to

43:18

a lot of researchers, you've got that

43:20

real skeptical and go, hold on

43:22

a minute. Let's look around. Let's

43:25

look at all those possibilities that

43:27

it could be. Moving on to my

43:29

second question about the UK is,

43:32

did you find any specific

43:34

evidence or any audio or

43:36

anything that would support Bigfoot in

43:38

the UK? Yes, I went

43:40

in and rewatched that episode

43:43

and remembered for Bobo and Cliff and those kilts

43:45

and all those midges. I remember those midges and

43:47

you'll see lots of times if you were watching

43:49

Finding Bigfoot that would put this scarf up and

43:51

it would either be to be warm or to

43:54

keep bugs off of me. I

43:56

know that when Cliff and I heard a call,

43:59

we watched it last night. And it was so

44:01

it's again, I can watch these episodes. I'll go,

44:04

but when I first met you, you talked about a different Neil

44:06

and I was like, Oh, now

44:08

I remember. So Hamish

44:10

was who Bubba and Cliff did the

44:12

recreation went up to their location right

44:14

off of Loch Ness starts with an

44:16

A can't remember the name of it. But

44:19

they went there and then we went further up

44:21

and in the Cairngorms. I went with Neil,

44:24

where he had that photo, how far was he

44:26

from where it was straight away. I remember that

44:29

being there. I remember looking at the photo and

44:31

seeing, in my opinion, I can't rule out that's

44:33

a person honestly that leans more towards a person.

44:36

I even just looking at it, almost see like

44:38

a hat. That was my take on

44:40

that. But what I learned about Neil was

44:42

I don't know, then going with the other

44:44

Neil trying to think of two names. Neil

44:47

Young and Neil Robinson. Is it

44:49

Robinson or Robson? Neil

44:52

Young is the first guy that we met

44:54

with Adam because Neil and Neil went with

44:56

Adam to that location that not followed up

44:58

with that. If I recall, it was

45:00

a windy cold night and nothing

45:03

happened. But I'm just speaking to what

45:05

my experience was. The photo that I saw

45:07

with Neil did not elicit

45:10

anything with me to go, Whoa, I

45:12

can't explain that. Or

45:14

when I followed up with Neil Robson, I believe it's

45:16

his name. I am not accusing

45:19

just for the record accusing Neil of making

45:21

that story out what I found interesting. It's

45:23

so weird to be there and then see how

45:25

it gets edited and make it look like really

45:27

nice guy and enjoyed visiting with him. What I

45:29

found so interesting was, if I'm

45:31

combat fishing, I fish a lot and I'm

45:33

with my friends and I screen tape run,

45:35

and you're on this

45:37

elevated trail, wooden trail, and

45:40

I'm freaked out enough that I'm seeing I'm assuming

45:42

he doesn't do this all the time. If you're

45:44

doing something out of behavior that you're telling

45:46

somebody to run in your panic, and

45:49

then you get in the car and you don't have

45:51

a conversation about it, that's what was so weird to

45:53

me. That's what I couldn't figure out. I don't know.

45:55

That's that funny with me. Or maybe everybody handles

45:57

trauma and stress in different ways. shut

46:00

down in the car, I don't know. I also thought

46:02

in such a large, they were saying 9,

46:06

10 over 9 feet, they were saying more like

46:08

9 to 11, something that large over in that

46:10

brush, not even just moving because Matt was I

46:12

think a quick-looking move. When I walked over

46:14

there, you would just something that large when it

46:17

would step there, you would hear it moving. I

46:19

did love the habitat around there. There's more habitat

46:21

there once I was actually there but

46:24

to me, the real habitat was up in Scotland. If

46:27

you are a large terrestrial

46:30

discovered species, a text predator.

46:33

I mean, I'd be moving to Scotland. I just have

46:35

so much more cover but... Thank you,

46:37

Renee. My final question for you,

46:39

obviously I know a bit

46:41

of background info here but

46:44

what are your future plans

46:46

for the Bigfoot community and

46:48

your conferences and your Bigfoot

46:50

life? My Bigfoot life, your

46:52

Bigfoot. Once funny Bigfoot wrapped,

46:54

I needed to really heal

46:56

my body. I was feeling

46:58

some stuff going on. I took a full year to

47:01

have thought and then was ramping

47:03

up, heading into some other things and then COVID

47:05

hit. And so now that we're

47:07

out of COVID, I do have several

47:09

projects going on that are on the down low. What

47:12

I can say is very close to my

47:14

heart is anything that works with the indigenous

47:16

community. I love that.

47:18

Or habituation repeat encounters. People

47:21

who very much love somebody who can

47:24

come out, who is a scientist, who

47:26

knows how to do research is not

47:28

afraid, will blindly go down a trail

47:30

but will also say nothing happened or

47:32

love to have me come out. So

47:34

there's been some of that going on. I almost

47:37

always have to sign NDAs on those. I

47:39

keep very busy with my public speaking. I do

47:41

a few Bigfoot conferences,

47:44

but I also stay really busy. As

47:46

I spoke earlier, colleges, universities, the public

47:48

circuit. But really, my favorite thing

47:50

is, Dany, we've talked about this, is to

47:52

go to schools. So I

47:54

work with Carrie Byron from Mythbusters. They

47:57

have an event where explore media and

47:59

have been bringing back basically a national

48:01

STEM challenge. The first one is this

48:03

year I was supposed to be

48:05

at, but I'm going to be somewhere

48:07

else. Anyway, timing

48:10

didn't work on that. But really, one

48:12

of the dearest things to my heart is

48:15

to go to schools, whether it's elementary,

48:17

middle school, high school,

48:19

and talk to the kids about what

48:22

is big for them. More than anything,

48:24

to challenge them, to raise the bar,

48:27

thanks to them. Well, don't take the

48:29

low-hanging through. Also, using

48:32

your phone, be kind, how do you communicate?

48:34

How do you exchange information? There's such

48:37

a desperate, higher need for

48:39

that right now in our society. We

48:42

can have respectful,

48:44

intelligent conversation. Because

48:47

you think it's a biological species, I

48:49

think that it's something beyond, whether it's

48:52

a spirit or an

48:54

alien. But I lean more towards

48:56

that, but I still don't know. Don't pigeonhole me.

48:58

Those are the conversations we need to be having.

49:00

To say you don't know something is okay. That's

49:03

really one of my favorite things to do. And

49:06

I also work for my sanity and like

49:08

to keep my toe in the

49:10

scientific community. So I help peer

49:13

review on basically anything that's with

49:15

brown bears or the watershed

49:17

restoration, the Klamath. I was a part

49:19

of the L.A. Dannell Local

49:21

Project. I was part of this ongoing unit

49:24

study. And then now the Klamath is

49:26

coming out. So I still work with them. And then of

49:28

course, EDNA is evolving.

49:30

So there is the EDNA collaborative

49:33

at the University of Washington with

49:35

Ryan Kelly and Akira are part

49:37

of that. So people are

49:39

always asking me. So I've been coming in and

49:41

asking them, okay, how do I

49:43

communicate and share to make sure that people are

49:47

so much less science holding those feet

49:49

to the fire, if you will, big feet to

49:51

the fire, if you will, only the feet to

49:53

the fire. Sure. It's not junk science, making sure

49:56

it is good scientific peer

49:58

reviewed science, because as technology

50:00

increases. That's what happens. Everybody just starts

50:02

getting their fingers on it and they

50:05

can go awry in a

50:07

heartbeat. Definitely. I will

50:09

mention Renee. To all our

50:11

UK friends, Renee will

50:14

be over here for a

50:16

VIP event at the end

50:18

of April. It's called the

50:20

Bigfoot Bash, Sunday the 28th

50:22

of April. Tickets are all

50:24

over online. Renee's posted it

50:26

on her page. It's all

50:28

over our pages. I'm

50:30

really looking forward to that. And there's a

50:32

big announcement on that thing. Yeah, I gotta

50:35

say this. The way that this all organically

50:37

happened and how quickly this came about, having

50:39

to try to juggle and move things.

50:41

So for so long, there

50:44

are so many fans, friends,

50:46

researchers out there that are saying, are

50:48

you ever going to come over? Okay,

50:51

we're coming over. Myself,

50:53

Ryan is coming and Ronnie's going to be

50:55

there. We're going to have her little Archie

50:57

ready role. So looking forward to it.

51:00

Definitely. I hope all of you are

51:02

there. Rade, Brian,

51:05

this has been an incredible podcast. Brian,

51:07

I think you can agree with me.

51:09

Absolutely. Renee, never disappoint. So thank you

51:11

so much for your time and spending

51:13

as much time as you did with

51:15

us and answering all the questions

51:18

that are probably burning in people's minds.

51:20

So we definitely appreciate it. Let's put

51:22

those fires out today. Anyway, I look

51:24

forward to crossing paths with you both

51:26

again soon. Brian, I hope not this much

51:28

time. No, I need to get back to

51:31

you. I am so behind getting on podcasts.

51:33

I'm just trying to put everything in order.

51:35

We'll make it happen. For those in the

51:37

United States, particularly the Southeast, we will all

51:39

be together once again in June. June the

51:42

8th, we'll all be down at the Ocala

51:44

Bigfoot Conference. Russell LaCorde, Renee

51:46

Holland, RPG is going to be

51:48

there. Matt Pruitt, our

51:50

buddy Matt, Adam Davies, myself, and of course

51:52

Daniel will be there as well. I think

51:54

we're going to have Connor Flynn on the

51:56

stage as well. Tons of people. So if

51:58

you guys want to. check out the great

52:01

Florida Bigfoot conference. You can get that on Gather Up

52:03

events and get your tickets. There's still tickets available for

52:05

that and you can come and hang out with all

52:07

of us on June the 8th in Florida. Yeah.

52:10

And for those that are stateside,

52:12

I will be in SG Spark, Colorado

52:15

on the 19th and

52:17

20th. The 19th is a private event.

52:19

That's a VIP meet and greet on

52:21

the 19th. On the 20th is

52:24

the public event, Radio the Public at SG

52:26

Spark, Colorado, and that will be

52:28

Russ, Ronnie, and myself and other

52:30

vendors. And that is actually

52:33

one that that organizer reached out

52:35

to me years ago and I just know

52:37

I'm literally getting through emails now. I'm still

52:39

trying to get through emails from a lot.

52:42

It's nice to double back through working with Lee.

52:44

He's like, hey, yeah. And he's like, why

52:46

is that name so familiar? Here you come back, like five

52:48

to some of your site. I'm like, just

52:51

the Bigfoot community. Right

52:53

here, otherwise, it could take you over.

52:55

It could take you over and I still have

52:57

some other things that keep me busy. But I

52:59

look forward to seeing you in June, if not

53:01

sooner. So I'm going to chat with you both

53:03

and I look forward to more soon. So

53:55

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