0:00

One. Way or boring. Gotta create

0:02

a Gone On. My

0:04

dog killed your dog My dog

0:07

were playing career. Or with a treat. I

0:09

don't know. how did it. A

0:13

number of it now, but

0:15

both my dog coupled with

0:17

the girl card although told

0:19

my dog come out. Why

0:38

would you are putting? Someone

0:40

or something. Wrong

0:43

here. He

0:51

wouldn't want to. Look

0:53

through the window. No No no I no one to

0:56

one. Point.

1:01

Hello! The

1:04

idea here. Is

1:07

the but? I don't know. Yet,

1:10

but most. Were

1:12

going to get to the show It Doctor Shiro from

1:14

Oregon welcome to the show makes thanks or have me.

1:16

I'm excited to be here! I. Am glad

1:19

to have you in the show. Let's get into this big

1:21

the thing. I. Know you're not here

1:23

to necessarily talk about experiences. Why don't you

1:25

lay the foundation? You are a Phd, you

1:27

are doctor. Let's talk a little bit about

1:30

your history, your background, your education. And then

1:32

let's get into The Sasquatch. That. Sure

1:35

yeah no problem. I grew up here in

1:37

southern Oregon. My dad was a hunting and

1:39

fishing guide that my youth in the woods

1:41

and along the rivers. Grew. Up in

1:43

Brogue river on the river. At

1:45

La, been out the woods have been a long

1:47

time. Fan of the

1:49

Sasquatch mythology and the stories.

1:52

Then. Went off to school and unlike.

1:55

Anyone. that i grew up with decided

1:57

i was going to study primates in the

1:59

wild I decided that when I was eight

2:01

years old and so just continued on and ended

2:04

up doing my PhD in evolutionary

2:07

anthropology. My field work was

2:09

on the development of behavior

2:11

in wild male chimpanzees. I've

2:14

also studied baboons, gibbons,

2:16

lemurs, a few other

2:18

species here and there, as well as

2:21

studying grizzly bears, gray

2:23

wolves, and human behavior,

2:25

doing a lot of human evolutionary studies,

2:27

so studying the fossil record. When

2:30

you're an evolutionary anthropologist, you have to be

2:32

a Swiss army knife in

2:34

a lot of different areas. You have to know

2:36

enough genetics to get you by. You have to

2:38

understand the fossil record. You have to, in my

2:41

case, know behavioral ecology,

2:43

which includes understanding animal behavior

2:46

and human behavior. So there's a

2:48

lot of different hats that you wear. Yeah, I've

2:50

been interested in being a kid from Oregon, just

2:52

a guy from Oregon, that I've always been like,

2:54

man, it'd be so cool if Sasquatch was out

2:57

there. But I put

2:59

a scientific lens on it. It just leads you

3:01

in directions where a lot of it doesn't hold

3:03

up. But I'm always like, my

3:05

thing is, in biology, you should never say never. You

3:07

should never say never, you should never say always. Because as soon

3:10

as you do, somebody's going to pull

3:12

up a coelacanth off the floor of the

3:14

ocean and off Madagascar, and your

3:16

whole idea is just shot. So we always need

3:18

to be open to new evidence. We always need

3:21

to be open to new ideas,

3:23

and I try and keep that perspective. And

3:25

I've been a fan of your podcast for

3:27

a while. I listen to it when

3:29

I'm getting my kid ready for school in

3:31

the morning, and it's a nice kind of

3:33

way to wake up to something that isn't

3:35

too pressing. It isn't waking up to the

3:37

BBC or something like that. So

3:39

I appreciate that. And I like your approach. And that's

3:41

why I reached out and said, hey, let's have a

3:44

conversation. I think it'll be fun. I

3:46

am so glad you did. I did pick up and

3:48

write down a couple of words that you said in

3:50

the beginning of this, because I famously don't get into

3:52

the weeds when I have people on the show. No

3:55

matter what the topic is, I like to be fresh and

3:57

I like to hear it for the first time. lot

4:00

of preparation for this conversation, admittedly,

4:03

and I wrote down mythology and stories. Those

4:05

kind of stuck out to me when you

4:07

were talking about Bigfoot. I always

4:09

approached this very scientifically, at least I

4:11

think so. I try to employ the

4:13

scientific method, critical thinking, Occam's razor, all

4:15

of those things when it comes to

4:17

Bigfoot. I've straddled that line

4:20

for so long with just

4:22

admitting I've gotten so much shit lately with people

4:24

Reddit. We talk about the bunghole of social media

4:27

on our other podcast, about Reddit and going down

4:29

the rabbit hole. Some of the people over there,

4:31

hey I don't listen to this guy because he

4:33

doesn't even know if Bigfoot's real. My

4:36

thing has always been, I don't

4:39

think I need to be directly in a camp

4:41

of, sure, some people who listen to the show

4:43

want me to be all in on Bigfoot and

4:45

they want me to say it's real. I'm about

4:47

98% there just because of

4:49

my own experiences and talking

4:52

to so many people who have had so many

4:54

different experiences that really

4:56

can't be explained. I'm almost there

4:59

but we just addressed this. Wayne and I

5:01

talked about it on that Bigfoot podcast this

5:03

past week. At least

5:05

for me, intelligent people form theories,

5:07

we form hypotheses based

5:09

on what we know now, the information we

5:11

have, what we grew up with, the stories

5:13

that we've been told, the conversations we've had,

5:16

and as new things come in, we have

5:18

to adjust. I've done this in so many

5:20

aspects of Bigfoot, whether it be

5:22

people in Bigfoot, whether it

5:24

be evidence in Bigfoot, or whether it just

5:27

be stories, anecdotal accounts of these things. I

5:30

have at least always tried to adjust my

5:32

theory and adjust the way I feel about

5:34

these things based on the information I have.

5:36

As new information comes in, I've adjusted.

5:39

I used to think the Patterson Gimlin film was

5:41

a hoax. I'm about 99% sure

5:44

that's probably a real Sasquatch there

5:47

but it took a long time for me to get there. It took

5:49

a couple of years. Frankly, I'm still

5:51

there with the subject in general, still

5:54

not 100%, because I haven't seen

5:56

one of these things. I think it's very important

5:58

to approach it from that standpoint. always

6:00

done that and most people who listen to

6:02

the show, I think they're

6:04

glad that I do that because I don't drink

6:06

the Bigfoot Kool-Aid. I call people out if

6:08

I think something is BS. If

6:11

I don't agree with something, I'm going

6:13

to say it. Just given your history,

6:15

your background, your education, obviously

6:17

you're generally interested in the subject. Let's

6:19

just go down that rabbit hole for a

6:22

second from your lens as a scientist and

6:24

what you know and what you studied about

6:26

primate behavior. Just give

6:28

us your elevator pitch on what

6:30

you think in general about Sasquatch

6:32

one way or the other pro or con. Sure.

6:35

Yeah. Let me just say really quickly before

6:38

I do that that one of the things that

6:40

got me into your podcast was

6:42

I really appreciated your perspective on

6:44

the Todd Standing videos when they came out. I

6:47

appreciated that you called it like you saw

6:50

it. Like you said, you didn't

6:52

drink the Kool-Aid but you weren't also going

6:54

to dismiss this outright. I felt

6:56

like I see it. Where I think it's BS, I'm going

6:58

to say so. When I think that this is possible, I'm

7:00

going to say so. I've listened to some

7:02

of your stuff about going up and spending some time with

7:04

them. I'd love to hear more of that at some point.

7:06

Yeah. From my perspective, for

7:09

me, whenever you're thinking about any kind

7:11

of population living in an area, the

7:13

first thing that you got to think about is

7:16

the ecology. You

7:18

got to think about can the

7:20

ecology support that population?

7:23

We all know that based on

7:26

what folks use as

7:28

their evidence, people in

7:30

the Sasquatch world say absolutely it could support

7:32

a large ape. To

7:34

be clear, if Sasquatch exists from my

7:37

perspective, I don't go into any of

7:39

the portals or anything like that. It

7:41

is a biological entity if it exists. But

7:43

that's also my perspective on pretty much everything.

7:45

That's where I start. There's

7:47

a couple of things that immediately

7:49

when you hear the current narrative

7:51

around Sasquatch that stand out. The

7:54

first is a lot of

7:56

people characterize them as some sort of up-level.

8:00

carnivore, something along

8:02

those lines. It's really difficult

8:04

for a carnivore to get as big as

8:08

Sasquatch are reported to be. Really

8:10

difficult. That requires some really

8:13

high hunting success of really large animals.

8:16

People will say, bears are that big? Yeah, grizzly

8:18

bears are carnivores, but they're carnivores that scavenge a

8:21

hell of a lot and they eat a lot

8:23

of things that are berries, fungus,

8:26

all sorts of things that a carnivore,

8:29

an obligate carnivore, like a big cat, isn't

8:31

going to eat those. So

8:33

bears are omnivores. That's

8:35

one thing where I push back and actually when I

8:38

was talking to Cliff Berwickman about this, I was

8:40

saying, for me, it's

8:42

far more believable knowing

8:44

primate evolution, knowing

8:47

the ecology of what carnivores require.

8:50

It's far more believable that if Sasquatch

8:52

exists, it's something that has adapted to

8:56

eating really low quality foods.

9:00

Part of that is the

9:03

descriptions that people give when they say

9:05

that they saw them. They saw their

9:07

teeth. They don't see any canines. They

9:09

don't see any shearing, any carnid teeth.

9:11

They see big flat teeth. Those

9:14

are teeth that are made to be

9:16

basically a primate version of a cow,

9:18

chewing up low quality foods, fibrous

9:20

foods. That's the

9:22

first thing, is thinking of the ecology. Along

9:25

those lines, I don't understand why a lot

9:27

of the Sasquatch researchers and I put that

9:30

in finger quotes because I don't know how much controlled

9:33

research is going on or how much

9:35

it's just armchair stuff. And that's all

9:37

fine. I'm good with that. I love

9:39

citizen science and everything else, but

9:42

we probably shouldn't confuse that with decades

9:45

spent researching a subject. It's really

9:47

interesting that people tend to

9:49

talk about, oh, they have to have

9:51

shelter. I don't understand that

9:53

concept because most primates don't use

9:56

shelters. I've been in monsoon

9:59

quality. environments with chimpanzees where

10:01

all they do is duck their heads and

10:03

just sit there and wait it out. I've

10:06

also seen them walk into empty

10:09

crevices at the base of the tree, a

10:12

hole at the base of the tree, back into

10:14

it like it's a little phone booth and just

10:16

wait it out. And so sometimes, yeah, orangutans

10:19

will sometimes use leaves to cover their

10:21

heads during a heavy rainstorm, but

10:23

most the time, they just put

10:25

their heads down, cross their arms, and

10:28

wait it out. So again, it doesn't

10:30

mean that would be what Sasquatch has

10:32

to do. What we know

10:35

big apes do isn't

10:37

something like making tree structures

10:39

and things like that and making

10:41

homes for themselves. So that's

10:43

the other part. Thinking about

10:45

things like the temperature

10:47

gradients, most primates can't survive at

10:50

places where Sasquatches are said

10:52

to be seen. So again, the ecology

10:54

comes back. And that all leads

10:56

me to one of the biggest

10:58

things and actually Jeff Meldrum and I talked

11:00

about this and Jeff and I have known

11:02

each other for years. We've crossed paths at

11:04

conferences. I have a ton of respect for

11:06

Jeff. And we talked about the

11:09

niche that Sasquatches would fill. All

11:12

too often, people are describing black bears.

11:15

And my thing is you don't see

11:17

two really large mammals filling the same

11:19

niche in the same environment. Like

11:21

people say, oh, if black bears can live there,

11:23

then Sasquatch can live there. Sure, but there are

11:25

already bears there. And even if

11:28

one is nocturnal and one is diurnal,

11:31

again, the amount of food that you need to

11:33

support those kind of body masses, you'd

11:35

have to be in really tiny numbers.

11:37

So probabilities are always in my mind

11:40

that way of ecology. Then there are

11:42

some biological components that I think of

11:44

things like structurally for a biped,

11:47

regardless of what kind of foot structure

11:49

and everything else. When people start

11:52

talking about nine and a half foot tall

11:54

bipeds, there's a reason why

11:56

the tallest people in the world live to be

11:58

40 years old at a really age. and

12:00

age, their bodies just break down and

12:03

that kind of vertical structure is

12:05

really difficult to establish for anything

12:07

that is on two legs. Again,

12:11

we're talking biology, so it doesn't mean it can't happen.

12:14

It's just the probability of it's really low.

12:17

And then the final thing I'd say, and this is where

12:19

the mythology comes in, is if you

12:21

listen to how a lot of people

12:23

describe Sasquatch when they do like a full description,

12:26

they sound like superheroes. This

12:29

was the biggest, strongest, fastest thing

12:31

I've ever seen. Nothing

12:33

could hurt it. It moved faster

12:35

than a cheetah. It was stronger than a

12:37

gorilla. So you were hanging out with the

12:39

Incredible Hulk. Biology usually

12:42

doesn't work that way. You

12:44

usually don't maximize all

12:46

of these features. You

12:48

aren't going to run 70 miles an

12:50

hour if you weigh a thousand pounds,

12:53

typically. If you're an NFL fan and you watch

12:55

the combine and watch the college players coming out,

12:58

listen, there were some 300-pounders that went 4, 5,

13:00

6, 4, 6, 40s and that's fast. A

13:06

lot faster than I could ever run, but

13:08

they weren't running a 4-2-40 like

13:10

the wide receivers were. And that's

13:12

just within our species. That's not even

13:14

talking about different species and their abilities. So

13:17

that's the part where I get into, there's a

13:19

lot of mythologizing where I would

13:22

believe it much more if they talked

13:24

about they're fast in a short burst

13:27

and then they're just there. But

13:29

these reports where, man, it ran across that

13:31

hillside or up that hillside at a speed

13:33

that a human could never do. Again,

13:35

I go back to where's the energy coming from? So

13:38

there's a lot of biological improbabilities

13:41

that make it really hard

13:44

to imagine this species actually

13:47

existing in North America. We've

13:49

talked about this recently, Wayne and I over on

13:52

that Big Foot Podcast. We're talking about Robert Wadlow.

13:54

I think he was something like 8'11". He

13:57

had a size 37 Double D

13:59

foot. Which. I think his

14:01

foot measured out and little over eighteen inches because

14:03

you always hear they are used the word always.

14:06

If you say and always or never you're probably

14:08

line and the truth is always in the middle

14:10

so I try not to do that. But

14:13

typically it's very calm. and to hear

14:15

of fifteen to seventeen it's tracks. When

14:17

people find footprints. for example of a

14:19

ask what and we were talking about

14:22

a particular story. I think somebody was

14:24

on the show. I don't remember who

14:26

it was. Somebody. Was talking

14:28

about having a twenty or twenty

14:30

two aunts footprint and how somebody

14:33

immediately. And I think he actually said it

14:35

might have been Jeff Are somebody who is speaking. On

14:37

behalf of Gf or knowing what Jeff

14:40

knew that was just too large, there

14:42

was no way that something could have

14:44

a foot that big. And we were

14:46

target about Robert Wadlow because this is

14:48

a man riding. Although he was. Certainly.

14:51

An extreme for our species. Head

14:54

and eighteen plus it's foot So I

14:56

was like okay we're talking to ask

14:58

what is not out of the realm

15:00

of possibility for the foot to be

15:02

that big. I to agree with you

15:04

on a lotta things that you were

15:06

talking about at yeah started with the

15:08

size and this is where I have

15:10

changed my theory. I've changed my working

15:12

hypothesis about these creatures. I. Think

15:14

a lot of times when people start talking in

15:16

a habit to me recently I think some I'm

15:18

so me on an interview recently that somebody described.

15:21

A Sasquatch that was possibly ten

15:23

to twelve feet tall according to

15:26

this witness. I just shake my

15:28

head there because. I. Don't even play

15:30

a Phd on television. and I don't

15:32

get into anthropology and people's make up.

15:34

the body, the skeleton, any of those

15:36

things. But. I know that it's

15:38

difficult if you saw Robert Wadlow. As.

15:41

An example Towards the end of his

15:43

life and even in his early years

15:45

he's walking with a cane. He's have

15:47

been very difficult joint is use the

15:49

weight of his body pressing down on

15:51

those joints. It's just not built to

15:53

do that. I have adjusted my hypothesis

15:55

on these things to think that. If.

15:58

They exist and people are see. In what

16:00

they say they're seeing as how will I certainly

16:02

want to get into somebody anecdotal reports and and

16:04

go down that rabbit hole? But. If people

16:06

are seeing what they're describing as a

16:08

large by Pete or. Ape.

16:11

I. Don't think they're nine feet tall. I.

16:14

Think when you get into those

16:16

situations where your heightened. The.

16:18

Adrenaline pumping, You get

16:20

in a bar fight with a guy who's five foot

16:22

six. You tell the story next week to your friends.

16:25

The guy was six seven. right? To

16:27

come out with a pool cue. He. Was six foot

16:29

seven, three hundred pounds, In actuality,

16:31

the guy was probably closer pushing Five

16:34

seven. About twenty five. It. Just

16:36

happens. That was. It's. The fishing

16:38

story right you go out as if so

16:40

just gonna say you catch a huge. Pot

16:43

is the six pound bass. And.

16:45

It's probably really close to three.

16:48

It's probably more like eight inches,

16:50

but it becomes eighteen inches when

16:52

you get home. It's

16:54

that human nature. And. I

16:56

don't think it's people trying to be deceptive.

16:58

I don't think they're trying to lie that

17:00

they're not trying to embellish. It's just what

17:03

happens to you physiologically when you get in

17:05

those situations. Holy shit something scared

17:07

me to death. That. Thing was nine

17:09

feet tall and the had way nine hundred

17:11

pounds. Is it possible that it

17:13

could have been six and a half feet and

17:15

maybe two hundred and twenty pounds? I'm.

17:17

Just say. So. I believe that

17:20

is a possibility. Let's get into

17:22

the the footprints was get into the

17:24

morphology the foot sokolow. The bit about

17:26

that because you mentioned Doctor Jeff Meldrum.

17:29

That his his speciality. As

17:31

they say, slivers. I had

17:33

a conversation with. Jeff

17:35

probably two years ago, maybe over

17:37

two years ago now and he

17:39

single handedly almost had me convinced.

17:42

That. The Patterson game on film was

17:44

real back then, just based on

17:46

his analysis of the footprints and

17:48

the cast from that day. A

17:51

sock a little bit about that because that's something that.

17:53

And he's frankly, it's really what we

17:55

go to when it comes to Bigfoot

17:57

these days as proof of existence and.

18:00

If you talking to somebody he comes back to the

18:02

footprints because. People are finding footprints.

18:04

I have found footprints on our land

18:07

here. I've cast things that I can

18:09

explain. How do you deal with that

18:11

as a side to Saudis? Have a conversation with some.

18:13

I like Jeff and say look I think you're wrong

18:15

here dude I don't think this is a bright by

18:17

pete or eight bits making these footprints. What?

18:19

Is your take on this Because. When you

18:22

get into those conversations and he's not the only one

18:24

when you get into break in those things down and

18:26

he is very good at break it down that morphology

18:28

and showing you exactly what you see and. What

18:31

are we looking at Here are those steaks In

18:33

your mind, Are people out there making these things

18:35

and they're fooling somebody like Jeff? What is your

18:37

opinion on just the footprints alone? Yeah.

18:40

So really quickly beast before we get into

18:42

that the less and I'd love to use

18:44

when we're talking about the size cause I

18:46

agree with you about the body size. Estimates.

18:50

A lesson. I love the use. Does

18:52

the fishing stories great but talk to

18:54

any hunter who hunts big game. When.

18:57

They see a buck that's the biggest bust

18:59

they've ever seen and they take that both.

19:01

Their sure that both weighed four hundred pounds.

19:04

They. Take it to the butcher. And

19:06

addresses added a hundred and ten pounds.

19:08

After scanned and everything said moved away

19:10

which means probably weighed about two hundred

19:12

pets. They doubled in size

19:14

just based on that. And I

19:16

group you, it's. Your. Adrenalin kicks

19:19

in and your ability to. Rationally

19:22

judge things gets altered. I think

19:24

your background was in law enforcement,

19:26

right? You. Saw this all

19:28

the time I witnesses as part of the

19:30

reason why witnesses are not good witnesses. Because.

19:34

They're adrenaline starts to kick in. And.

19:37

They don't see things factually as

19:39

they are. And. I don't blame

19:41

folks at all. I agree with you. I don't

19:43

think they're trying to embellish. I think

19:45

that's what's happening in their brain. So.

19:48

Moving on to sit morphology. First.

19:50

I don't argue with death is

19:53

an. Immaculately

19:55

trained, And and

19:57

morphologist I know the folks that

19:59

each way. under. He

20:01

has some of the best schooling in the

20:03

world when it comes to anatomy and morphology.

20:06

He understands the foot in a way that

20:09

I would never want to because

20:11

I'm not into the morphology of the foot

20:13

like that and I don't think I'd ever

20:15

be able to. He really knows his stuff.

20:19

So when Jeff is sure

20:21

and he and I haven't had a lot of conversations

20:23

on this, only a couple, I

20:25

saw him this last summer here in

20:27

Oregon. There's the Glide Sasquatch Festival that

20:29

I went to for the first time.

20:32

Cool little community gathering. Jeff was there.

20:34

He had given a lecture the night

20:36

before and I saw him at

20:38

his booth and we talked for a little bit

20:40

but of course you know how it is when you're at a

20:42

booth. You don't get to have real conversations with folks. We've

20:45

exchanged a few emails. I've been grateful to

20:47

him for indulging me that way. I would

20:49

say this, I don't think the

20:52

majority of cases are people intentionally

20:55

trying to hoax people. I

20:57

think that there are a lot of times that

21:01

you probably have a situation

21:03

where you have someone

21:06

sees a print in the ground, is sure

21:08

that's what it is, then

21:11

goes in and happens to carve

21:13

out what it is so they can get a

21:15

good casting, then they pour the

21:18

cast. We'll say this, I

21:20

don't think I can make a sufficient

21:22

argument that Jeff's hypothesis

21:25

on the structure of a

21:27

Sasquatch foot is wrong.

21:31

I don't think that I can pull out

21:33

the data that would refute that hypothesis. I

21:36

think it's a really interesting hypothesis of

21:38

having that mid-tarsal break and having that

21:41

absorption that way, being a different

21:43

style of bipedalism than what we

21:46

see in humans and human relatives

21:48

and direct ancestors. But

21:50

I don't think that I could say, oh

21:52

no, here's why that is wrong. And

21:55

so for me, that remains

21:57

an unanswered thing. something

22:00

that I haven't seen enough direct

22:02

evidence of. I know the

22:04

hundreds of casts that Jeff has.

22:06

I know the hundreds of casts that Cliff has. I know

22:09

that we can separate all of those, that

22:11

we know that... Let's do a really good

22:14

job of cataloging things now. I think

22:16

maybe in another five to ten years, we might

22:18

be in a place where you've

22:20

really been able to track down that you're

22:22

not getting duplicates from folks, that you're not

22:24

getting those sort of things. I

22:26

do think that things like the Cripplefoot

22:29

example are really interesting

22:31

examples because there are

22:33

growths and anomalies that look like

22:35

they're in that track that, again,

22:38

you'd have to be an expert to be able to

22:40

do that, I think. So those are

22:42

ones that, honestly, I think this is part

22:44

of the reason why I stay

22:46

openly skeptical is

22:49

that I think there are a lot of people

22:51

out there who are like yourself. You've found stuff.

22:53

I have no reason to think, oh, Brian's just

22:56

trying to pull one over. He's trying to

22:58

promote something. You don't seem that way

23:00

at all. I have no reason to think that was the

23:02

case. So I think that people are,

23:05

again, they think they're experiencing what their mind

23:07

is telling them it is. I don't

23:09

know that the facts match up with that. Their

23:12

own personal truth might be that, but the facts

23:14

might not match up. And really quickly,

23:16

on the size of the feet, yeah,

23:18

there have been these anomalous human

23:20

beings that are eight plus feet

23:22

tall and have these gigantic feet.

23:25

At the time when they existed, there were

23:27

two billion people on the planet. There were

23:29

four billion people on the planet. It's a

23:31

numbers game when you get to that kind

23:33

of variation and you get to the far

23:35

ends of the bell curve. You're not going

23:37

to have an eight-foot-eleven human being in

23:40

a population of 10,000. And if you do,

23:44

they're probably not going to survive. This

23:46

is why when you look at, let's use mountain gorillas

23:48

as an example, there are a few thousand

23:51

mountain gorillas left in the world. Thankfully,

23:53

the numbers have been continually ticking up

23:55

for several years now. You

23:57

don't have a lot of variation in body size.

24:00

When someone says a male gorilla

24:02

weighs 450 pounds, they all

24:04

come in pretty close to

24:07

that. They're a full grown, healthy

24:09

adult male gorilla. Whereas

24:11

you look at 8 billion people on the

24:13

planet, you got Shaq and

24:15

the rest of us, and I

24:17

think that's something that we need to always keep in

24:20

mind when we're talking about a biological population is that

24:22

the numbers game is really important.

24:26

Human is going to be just naturally

24:28

increased the greater the numbers. So

24:31

it's hard to use humans as an

24:33

example. I agree with you that 22

24:35

inches is an out of the realm a possibility

24:37

if Sasquatches exist for their foot

24:40

size for a big male. That

24:42

would be on that far end of the tail. That

24:45

would be a really rare individual. Doesn't

24:48

mean it can't exist. It just means that

24:50

the likelihood of it. I think that's why

24:52

maybe somebody like, and I don't want to speak

24:54

for him ever, but I think maybe that's

24:56

why somebody like Jeff would say, oh, it's

24:59

hard to imagine a foot that big because

25:02

he's thinking in probabilities of a

25:04

population and he's thinking, yeah,

25:07

the likelihood that you're going to get that crazy

25:09

giant anomaly, this person

25:12

from Washington State is just going

25:14

to find it. Those numbers

25:16

get really minuscule. I

25:18

think I'd start buying lottery tickets. I

25:21

think you might be right. I'm all

25:23

about the totality of the circumstances when

25:25

it comes to anything, but particularly with

25:27

Bigfoot. Let's move in and talk a

25:29

little bit about vocalizations because this is

25:31

the other thing that I have experienced

25:34

that I frankly can't explain. I've heard

25:36

some of the weirdest shit I've ever

25:39

heard here in North Carolina and now

25:41

up in BC, Canada. I

25:43

have my feelings and theories about

25:45

the Sierra sounds, some of

25:48

the things that people have put out there,

25:50

but there is the Ohio howl. I think

25:52

everybody who's into Bigfoot has probably heard Matt

25:54

Moneymaker's Ohio howl from I think 92 or

25:57

whenever he recorded it. I've

25:59

heard almost the... exact same thing 50

26:01

yards from my house here in

26:04

North Carolina at 11 o'clock

26:06

at night except sounded like there was a weird

26:08

bark on the end of it. I've

26:10

heard a lot of things I can't explain

26:12

that. I've never said it was Bigfoot.

26:14

I never will say it was Bigfoot because I

26:17

didn't see it. Let's talk a little bit about

26:19

some of the vocalizations that people are hearing whether

26:21

they're recorded or not. David

26:23

Ellis at the Olympic Project has come

26:25

out with a lot of audio and a lot

26:27

of different people that have had things. Julie Wrench

26:29

comes to mind here in the Uare National Forest.

26:31

I had her and David on a couple of

26:33

years ago. There was a gentleman I just

26:35

interviewed. I was working on his audio today

26:38

before I hopped on with you who has

26:40

recorded some really weird stuff out in his

26:42

area on the reservation he lives on and

26:44

David has analyzed it and he

26:46

can't find a known animal for this sound. That's the other

26:48

thing and I've got some theories I want to throw out

26:50

here in just a minute. I want to talk a little

26:53

bit about monkeys and apes and chimps and some of the

26:55

other things that we've talked about on

26:57

the show recently. Has there been

26:59

anything that you've heard just

27:01

because of your interest of this that has

27:03

piqued your interest maybe like the Ohio howl

27:06

or the Sierra sounds or anything like that

27:08

you find extremely odd like maybe

27:10

some of the footprints that may

27:12

sway you one way or the other towards going

27:14

if there was something that was going to convince

27:16

me maybe that was it. Stay

27:19

tuned for more Sasquatch Odyssey. We'll

27:21

be right back after these messages.

27:26

Yeah I find the sounds really interesting

27:28

because sometimes you hear people talking about

27:31

the whoops and quite honestly

27:33

when I've heard the recordings of those that

27:35

sounds like somebody recorded a gibbon in a

27:37

sanctuary somewhere. I wonder sometimes

27:39

again I've never heard any of these things

27:41

firsthand I only get the recordings off the

27:44

internet or listening to a show or something

27:46

and I wonder sometimes if people

27:48

have not recorded things and messed

27:51

around with things because I've also heard

27:53

a wookie. That was created

27:56

using a couple of different classic

27:58

sounds and combining things. I'm

28:00

just saying that sound engineers can do it.

28:02

I'm not throwing shade at anybody for what

28:05

they're claiming. I'm just saying that can happen.

28:07

And that wouldn't surprise me with something like

28:09

sounds because let's say people are

28:11

in the woods, they hear

28:13

something, and we were just talking about

28:16

people with what they see

28:18

not being accurately reflected. Sounds

28:22

are a whole different level.

28:24

Human hearing is not particularly

28:27

amazing for an animal. We

28:29

don't rely on it super heavily and even

28:31

folks who have trained themselves to rely on

28:33

it super heavily, it's not something

28:35

that's instinctive for us. Talk

28:38

about being up for interpretation. Now I don't

28:40

doubt that you may have heard something that

28:42

sounded just like the Ohio sounds. When

28:44

I heard the Ohio sounds, I went, interesting. I

28:47

lived in Ohio for seven years. I spent a

28:49

lot of time in the woods there. I've heard

28:51

the wind howling in a very similar way lots

28:53

of times. I think there's

28:56

a lot of times when folks are out in the

28:58

woods, their senses

29:00

are heightened, they're hearing something.

29:02

Here's another thing, I wouldn't say that the

29:04

Ohio howl is necessarily the wind.

29:07

But one of the things that we had in Ohio

29:09

that I didn't know about until I moved back there

29:11

and I studied dog behavior for years is

29:14

that they actually have wolf coyote

29:16

hybrids there. So

29:18

they're not just a typical coyote

29:20

with that high-pitched yip. They

29:23

get a little bit of a howl into their

29:25

calls. So you'll hear them.

29:27

I wouldn't be surprised when you hear a bark at

29:30

the end of something. You're probably

29:32

talking a cane into some kind. I

29:34

think that most of the sounds that

29:36

people hear, and again, haven't experienced myself.

29:38

I'm totally open to having that experience. I

29:40

hope I do at some point. I

29:43

think most of the time, they're misidentifying

29:45

an animal that they're

29:47

hearing maybe for the first

29:50

time. I love these kind

29:52

of comparing catalogs to, I couldn't find

29:54

any known animal that sound matched

29:57

to. All right, so really do

29:59

that. you're going to have to control for every

30:02

variable and those animals have to be in the

30:04

exact same environment. And you're never going

30:06

to get that in a wild situation. The

30:08

wind's always going to be slightly different. The

30:11

substrate around you, the trees, the rocks

30:13

that it could bounce off of, everything's

30:15

going to be slightly different. And

30:17

all of that impacts sound waves

30:20

so drastically that it's hard to

30:22

use those as a reliable �

30:24

that is a piece of evidence. Now

30:27

that's not to say that people

30:29

who have studied for years

30:31

or who have lived around them for

30:33

years can't sit there and

30:36

tell you, I can sit there and

30:38

probably 99% of the time accurately

30:40

tell you if it's a coyote calling. I

30:43

can tell you if it's a wolf calling because I

30:45

studied wolves for a little while and we have wolves

30:47

that are out in the areas that I hike and

30:49

hunt in. I can tell you when it's a

30:51

cougar. Some of the Bigfoot calls

30:53

that I've heard that people claim are a

30:55

woman screaming, you've just never heard a cougar

30:57

before. That's the other thing

30:59

I love too is a lot of these witnesses

31:01

are, �Man, I grew up in the

31:04

woods. I've heard every kind of animal. I know what

31:06

every kind of animal sounds like. Okay, maybe.

31:09

I'm not saying I can do it all the time. I've

31:12

been in the woods my entire life too.� There's

31:15

a certainty in almost a level of

31:17

arrogance that comes in, I think, for

31:19

some of the folks who are identifying

31:21

calls where they say, �Oh, that's

31:24

a squash for sure.� Unless

31:26

it's sitting there breathing

31:28

its nasty breath on your face while it's

31:30

making that call, you don't

31:32

know if it's a squash for sure. I've

31:35

heard deer make sounds that I never

31:37

knew that they can make. Then

31:39

you get into individual variation. I'll tell

31:41

you a quick little story about sounds.

31:44

Chimpanzees have all sorts of different calls that

31:46

they do for different situations.

31:49

One of the classic calls is to do a

31:52

pant hoot or a long call. That's

31:54

the one where they, �Ooh� and they build up to a

31:56

big call. We had a male

31:58

chimpanzee at the end of the day. site that I

32:00

did most of my research at named

32:02

Pinser, you could identify him

32:04

from a half a mile away because

32:07

his call went and at the end

32:09

he went, oh, and no other chimp did that. So

32:12

it was really easy when he would make his call when

32:14

he'd be like 300 yards away coming into

32:17

a fruit tree, L. Pinser's on his way.

32:20

One of my field assistants I worked with had a

32:22

really great ear. He could

32:24

identify over 35

32:26

males based on their

32:28

calls. And we would play

32:31

the game. We'd be sitting at a fruit tree where

32:33

there's some chimps already and the males

32:35

all come in and they call as they come

32:37

in basically announcing their arrival. And

32:39

he would say, oh, Dexter, Brubek,

32:43

Basie, and he would just be calling

32:45

them. If you notice, those were

32:47

three jazz musician names. My professor was a

32:49

big jazz fan. Sure enough, he

32:51

was never wrong. I got to

32:54

the point before I left where I could get

32:56

32 of the males just by

32:58

their calls. So individual

33:00

variation in the calling, right? You

33:02

can have a species typical call,

33:05

but then you put in all the variation around

33:07

it. And that again,

33:09

if you've been exposed to this call

33:11

twice in your life, three

33:13

times in your life, for this

33:16

certainty of absolutely that was

33:19

really, again, I leave the door open. I

33:22

would love to be in a situation where

33:24

I heard something that was

33:26

absolutely created by an animal and

33:29

absolutely I couldn't identify that is

33:31

probably this animal. I

33:33

would love that. But I've never

33:35

been in that situation and the recorded

33:37

calls that I've heard, there's either so

33:40

much wind noise with them, everything else that I

33:42

go, I don't know where the true sound is

33:44

there. I don't know that

33:46

I trust for myself. I would

33:48

love to be shown this. I

33:50

don't know that the sound engineer

33:52

is pulling it out, putting it through,

33:55

and I don't know this stuff. That's

33:57

not my area, the technology around it. If

34:00

you have stuff where you say, absolutely Hogan, check

34:02

this out, I would love to hear it because

34:04

I have yet to hear something where

34:06

I go. That also could

34:08

possibly be or I can't say that also

34:11

could possibly be this animal. It's

34:13

far more common in North America than a Sasquatch would

34:15

be if they're around. You've

34:17

listened to the show long enough to know where I sit on

34:19

this. But again, I go back to the

34:21

totality of the circumstances. It happened to me in radium.

34:24

I was convinced I was going to be

34:26

hoked when I went up there. I had

34:28

to clear my brain and get ready to

34:30

possibly have some experiences and try

34:32

to stay open-minded about it because I was going

34:34

into a situation with Todd and I just thought

34:36

he was going to hoax me. But

34:39

once I got there and I saw the

34:41

area, we hiked enough to know. We

34:44

were 18 miles deep in the woods. There was nobody

34:46

else there. I knew where Todd

34:48

was at least a couple of these times when we

34:50

had these experiences. One of them was in the middle

34:52

of the day where I heard a couple

34:54

of whoops. Even what sounded

34:57

like wood knocks that responded to

34:59

me doing a call of my own.

35:02

Pretty quick succession there. That

35:05

same night we had more whoops

35:08

while we were around the campfire. We had

35:10

things being thrown at us. We couldn't figure out if

35:12

it was small rocks or possibly

35:14

little pine cones. I don't know

35:16

what throws pine cones or rocks in the woods. This

35:19

wasn't the same night but a different

35:21

night we were having things thrown at us. We

35:24

heard and I recorded what

35:26

sounds like samurai chap

35:28

into the woods. I

35:30

can't explain that man. I heard that with

35:32

my own ears and three other people heard

35:35

it. Todd was talking of course. One of

35:37

the things he does the most. He's the

35:39

best at. I heard that recording. He was

35:41

talking over. But I heard it clearly. Ash

35:44

heard it and I think Kyle or I

35:46

didn't hear it. I heard that in real

35:48

time and I got chills because it

35:50

sounded like I was listening to something off of

35:52

the Sierra sounds which I find weird

35:55

because I have some issues with the Sierra

35:57

sounds. I always have. It's just

35:59

the totality. of the circumstances for me,

36:01

again, I didn't see a Sasquatch. I

36:03

can't definitively say anything was Sasquatch

36:05

related. All I can say is

36:08

all of those experiences and

36:10

the culmination of those things coming

36:12

together, I left their feeling that

36:14

I had possibly heard a Sasquatch and

36:16

or possibly even live interactive. I hate to say

36:18

that because that's such a tautism. I can take

36:21

you out and show you a Sasquatch or you

36:23

can live interact with one. But I feel

36:25

like that's what happened. Can I ask you

36:27

a question about the radium experience? Absolutely. Okay,

36:30

so it's really two questions and I may

36:32

have misunderstood this when I was listening to

36:34

you describe it on your podcast. Well

36:37

you were just saying you guys were up there

36:39

totally alone except you're talking about that guy who

36:41

was doing the solo and

36:43

was in camp when you first went up there. Do

36:46

you know where he was the whole time? He

36:48

was at the top of Radium Mountain when that happened. Supposedly.

36:52

I know he was because he filmed while he

36:54

was up there. He filmed the entire time he

36:56

was up there at a GoPro. It's time-stamped video.

36:59

I didn't know that part. I don't have a dog

37:01

in that fight but I will say this about Jason.

37:04

We took him a good

37:06

ways up to where he was going. We

37:08

drove him miles and then he

37:10

went another 3,800 feet

37:13

in elevation up the mountain and I've seen him post

37:15

videos from being up there. So I know he was

37:17

there and I know it wasn't him in the woods

37:20

doing what we were hearing. The other thing that stood

37:22

out for me was when I was listening to the

37:24

recording, I think it's interesting how and

37:26

this may just be I don't know Todd at all. This

37:28

may just be Todd Standing's

37:30

personality but when

37:33

you guys heard the samurai chatter in your

37:35

recording when I was listening to it and

37:37

you guys said, did you hear that? Todd

37:40

stops for a second and he goes, those whoops and

37:42

you guys corrected him and said, no it

37:45

wasn't whoops it sounded like samurai chatter. Oh

37:48

yeah, yeah, yeah and he quickly went over

37:50

it. Again, this is my

37:52

skeptical brain man but when I heard that

37:54

I was like, hmm, he was expecting something

37:56

else. He was expecting to

37:58

be able to confirm. you

38:00

heard whoops and it

38:02

wasn't what he expected. And that

38:04

to me is interesting because I

38:07

spent a lot of time around carnival barkers.

38:10

I've watched people selling snake oil a lot

38:12

of times. I have great respect for your

38:14

ability to see through the BS. And I

38:16

wasn't there and I don't doubt your experiences

38:18

at all. That's a guy who's

38:20

got a real dog in a fight of proving

38:23

to people. And having someone like you who has

38:25

that experience where you can come

38:27

back and say, hey, it's stuff I

38:29

can't explain. So that for

38:31

me as an outsider just leads to more

38:34

skepticism where I say, what

38:36

is someone like Todd willing to

38:38

do to make sure that

38:40

an experience happens for someone? And

38:42

I'm right there with you and I tell you I don't

38:44

even recall that. I'm gonna have to go back and listen

38:47

to the audio because all I remember him saying is, no

38:49

I didn't hear that because he was

38:51

freaking talking. I'll have to go back and

38:53

listen to that. If that's the case then that's

38:56

something I need to take a look at because

38:58

here's what's happened recently with him. Everybody's probably rolling

39:00

their eyes as they listen to this about Todd.

39:02

It's happened to me recently. I have

39:05

admitted openly that I was so euphoric

39:07

about just being there. It's a beautiful

39:09

place. I was there for

39:11

seven days. I got away from work, completely

39:13

cut off. To some people it sounds like

39:15

torture. To me it's like heaven being that

39:17

far into the woods and not

39:20

having a cell phone. Things dinging and

39:22

going off and those responsibilities. I

39:24

think I was really euphoric about that. I

39:26

tried to separate those experiences from Todd because

39:28

Todd didn't really have a whole lot to

39:30

do with my experiences there because outside

39:33

of the time we spent, my experiences were what

39:35

they were with nature and all the other things

39:37

that were going on. But I've seen

39:39

it recently and I called him out recently about a

39:41

video he posted over on his

39:43

YouTube channel where he was clearly leading this lady

39:45

that he was out with. It was something he

39:47

had filmed for Wild TV or something.

39:50

He's clearly leading her. He's correcting

39:52

her when she doesn't say

39:54

what's fitting his narrative. I called

39:56

him out on it and he got pissed off.

39:58

Let's just say we're not fitting it. friends anymore. Brian,

40:01

this is what I really appreciate, man. I seriously

40:03

do. Honestly, it makes me a fan of yours,

40:06

not that you and he had your issue.

40:08

It's that you called him out, that you

40:10

said, whoa, because that's

40:13

exactly my thing. You want to truly

40:15

let people have their radium experience, take

40:18

them out there, make sure that they're trained up

40:20

to hang out for five days on their own

40:23

and leave them alone. Don't be their guide in them.

40:26

Very good point. And to that point, when

40:28

I said that, I didn't just call him out for

40:30

it. I said on the show when Wayne and I

40:32

talked about it over on that Bigfoot podcast, I said,

40:34

look, I was probably guilty of overlooking a lot

40:37

of that with Todd because he tried the same thing

40:39

with me. And it sounds like we have it on

40:41

recording of him doing it around the fire. I just

40:43

was oblivious to it. I wasn't really listening to him

40:45

because I knew he didn't hear it because he was

40:47

talking. I was talking to the other people that I

40:49

thought might have heard it, but he

40:52

does that a lot. He tries to lead

40:54

people in the direction of his narrative. And

40:56

I'm just not picking up what he's putting

40:58

down. I don't pick that up from anybody.

41:00

If anybody says anything definitive, like you said,

41:02

oh, that's definitely a Sasquatch. I'm

41:04

usually turning you off and I'll have a conversation

41:06

with you, but I'm not listening very hard because

41:08

I think you're full of shit because you don't

41:10

know anything definitively about these things unless

41:13

you're living with them. I don't think anybody's doing that. I

41:15

don't know. I saw something online

41:17

about a woman who's been living with one for

41:19

a few years. I'm having Janice Carter flashbacks, man.

41:21

You're killing. I want to shift

41:24

gears a little bit here and talk about something that

41:26

we've been talking about over on that Bigfoot podcast. If

41:28

you guys don't listen to that show, and I know

41:30

you all don't because I see the downloads every week,

41:33

you should go check out that Bigfoot podcast.

41:35

Wayne and I have been talking about this

41:37

crazy story that came up, something happened. We

41:40

got an email months ago about

41:42

Sasquatch swimming because there

41:44

are stories. I think I've documented a

41:46

couple myself from people who

41:49

have talked about Sasquatch swimming. It comes up. Can

41:51

they get to certain areas? Can they be in

41:53

places like Australia? Can they be in places like

41:55

the UK? And Specifically,

41:58

can they get to some of these islands that. People

42:00

have experiences that means they gotta swim Mr

42:02

not building boat the get good they're somehow

42:04

the gotta be swimming was talk a little

42:06

bit about this. We just did a show

42:08

last week. We. Have a newsletter so

42:10

big that weekly newsletter if you guys have been signed up

42:12

for that, you can do that on the website. For

42:15

ya yet is putting your email address. And.

42:17

We put these out every Sunday and

42:19

I wrote one about an interesting story.

42:22

I thought it was interesting about these

42:24

wild animals is wild monkeys? I think

42:26

it's Mikac? possibly lamers? Some.

42:28

Other type of monkey this live in

42:30

in Ocala, Florida of all places. And.

42:33

That came up because one of the first

42:35

videos that I found about these monkeys in

42:37

the Silver Creek area think near Ocala. Was.

42:39

All these monkeys, the jumping out of trees from

42:42

twenty feet up and a swim and everywhere. Everybody.

42:44

Sea Monkey swim right. We. Had

42:47

this lady send us an email talking about champs

42:49

he says used to work at a zoo. And.

42:51

They had an enclosure with a separated these

42:53

champs with water features because they can swim.

42:56

Let me get it directly. You're the expert

42:58

on this that Wayne and I were hoping

43:00

we'd have two weeks ago. So. Let's

43:02

talk a little bit about swimming and eight

43:04

is it a thing where monkeys can swim

43:06

and eight can't because they're to dances of

43:09

the muscle. what say you on the swim

43:11

into. August is not

43:13

necessarily. Monkeys can swim eight

43:16

can't eats. typically avoid deep

43:18

water of any kind. spike

43:20

still make chest up. They.

43:23

Typically avoid or years people reported

43:25

that they did have to low

43:27

of a body set ratio. To.

43:30

Be able to swim, they don't stay

43:32

afloat is a thing. Doesn't. Mean

43:34

that they couldn't put in a lot of

43:36

effort and and swim it just means of

43:39

their body doesn't float like most humans do.

43:41

I have always lasted that because I don't

43:43

float. I'm a pretty dense individual,

43:45

probably in multiple ways. I sink

43:47

readily, so that was the thinking

43:49

for a long time. Then.

43:52

They found a rag. It's hands regularly going

43:54

into the water. and waiting

43:56

in relatively deepwater sometimes

43:58

actually crossing where their feet

44:00

aren't touching, sometimes having to swim. And

44:03

oranguts have really short legs relative to body size,

44:05

so they're not going to stand up and be

44:07

out of the water in much of anything. And

44:10

so people are like, yeah, but orangutans,

44:12

they've lived in Southeast Asia where it's

44:14

incredibly swampy, so they've had to adapt

44:16

to this. A couple of

44:18

years ago, someone got some

44:20

really nice video of bonobos,

44:23

so our other closest living relatives,

44:25

same distance from us as chimpanzees,

44:28

standing up waiting in almost chest

44:31

high water. And then

44:33

gorillas waiting through deep water using a

44:35

stick actually, not as like a cane,

44:38

but more I think probably probing. Because

44:41

if you think of it, especially all of

44:43

those apes, there are crocodiles in almost

44:46

every place where they live. There's a good reason not

44:48

to go into deep water. You

44:50

can't see the bottom in almost any of these

44:52

waterways. There's a good reason to

44:54

avoid it. Not only that, but you're also vulnerable

44:56

for everything else because you can't move through it

44:58

very fast. So it's more

45:00

an avoidance. I think chimpanzees typically will not

45:03

go into water. I've watched them

45:05

go 50, 100 meters

45:08

to get to a log to cross over

45:10

a creek that they probably could walk through

45:12

up to their stomachs when they're knuckle walking.

45:15

But again, avoiding any kind of deep water is

45:17

probably a smart move. So that's

45:19

that case. There are some monkeys, proboscis monkeys

45:21

were some of the first ones that they

45:23

found that really good swimmers, they'll

45:26

actually jump in and they'll actually swim

45:28

around. There's some macaque

45:30

species, the crab eating macaque that

45:32

will dive and get crabs, submerge

45:34

itself. But once in

45:36

Florida, there's probably a macaque population

45:38

because they probably escaped from some

45:41

sort of captive situation, probably a testing

45:43

facility. I know that

45:46

there's a vervet population, that's an

45:48

African monkey, the relatively small monkey.

45:50

That's in Florida and a really

45:52

adaptable vervet between vervets and macaques. You're looking

45:55

at if there is a coyote of the

45:57

primate world, vervet macaque or baboon. So.

46:00

It wouldn't surprise me that they're going

46:02

in and wading through water, sometimes swimming.

46:05

But no, it's not that biologically

46:07

monkeys can swim, apes can't. They

46:10

all have relatively low body fat densities compared

46:12

to us. So most of them

46:14

are not going to be really great swimmers, not

46:17

going to be able to float, which

46:19

most people don't realize that's what kind of

46:21

allows us to be pretty

46:23

good swimmers for a terrestrial biped

46:26

because a lot of the effort is taken

46:28

off, we can stay afloat that way. Doesn't

46:31

mean that the aquatic ape hypothesis

46:34

has any validity, it doesn't. But

46:36

it's a byproduct of us having that body fat.

46:38

So yeah, that's probably the case.

46:40

But for the most part, apes do not

46:42

like to swim, but they

46:45

will cross waterways when they can. What

46:48

is it? Whidbey Island, I think, where there's been

46:51

a lot of Sasquatch reportings and you'd

46:53

have to cross the waterway. Unless you're riding the

46:55

ferry with an awfully big trench coat on, you'd

46:58

have to cross the waterways to get there.

47:00

They exist if they're anywhere near the body

47:02

size. A gimbal, it's

47:04

hard to imagine the way they're

47:06

described, they've got almost no body fat

47:08

at all other than patty. Other than

47:10

females, when people describe them, they

47:13

talk about, oh, they had breasts, which I

47:15

think is really interesting because humans are the

47:17

only primates that regularly have

47:20

breasts all the time that are

47:22

prominent. So that, I thought, was a

47:24

really interesting component. But yeah,

47:27

the males especially are described as, can

47:29

I get on that workout program? I don't know. They're

47:32

pretty impressive. Thinking of them as, again,

47:34

this is where I go back to them

47:37

being described almost like superheroes. Oh, and they

47:39

swim like a dolphin. There's got to be

47:41

something they can't, other

47:43

than drive a car, there's got to be something else

47:45

that they can't do, right? Not according to Igor Burtz

47:47

if they can drive cars, they'll have to send you

47:50

the pictures of that. I don't

47:52

think we're going to get into any kind of

47:54

consensus about Bigfoot. You did hear it, folks. Hogan

47:56

said Sasquatch can swim. No, I'm just kidding. This

47:59

is definitely... not the conversation I thought I

48:01

was Oh

48:28

yeah, I'd love to have a part two. I think

48:30

we should definitely Brian, it'd be great. I

48:33

definitely think we should set that up but in the meantime,

48:35

I've had a blast talking to you. I really appreciate you

48:37

coming on the show. Yeah, thank you.

48:39

I've enjoyed it too. I look forward to the

48:41

second part. Thank

48:57

you. Thank

49:28

you. Thank

49:58

you. Oh.