0:00

and indeed if cooking is chemistry, which Colin says

0:02

it is, baking certainly is

0:04

and that's something that my next

0:06

guest knows all about. Alice Taylor

0:08

was a finalist and a fan

0:10

favourite from MasterChef New Zealand in

0:12

2022 and has now brought out

0:14

our first cookbook Alice in Cake

0:16

Land. It is designed so you

0:18

need minimal equipment and little experience

0:21

to successfully bake as

0:23

well as the recipes being affordable and adaptable.

0:25

You can swap out ingredients and use what

0:27

you have. Now you may be indulging in

0:29

some baking this weekend, if so let us know

0:31

what and if you have a burning question for

0:34

Alice flick us a

0:36

text on 2101 or Saturday at

0:38

rnz.co.nz. Alice Taylor, Ata Maria good

0:40

morning. Good morning. Lovely to

0:42

have you with us. It's a

0:44

great book, I really enjoyed it and I

0:47

really enjoyed the bit at the beginning,

0:51

which we will get onto shortly but I don't

0:53

know how much of Bonnie Garmus you heard

0:55

or there. You

0:58

talked about pistachio nuts being flammable.

1:01

I didn't hear, I came in maybe a little bit later

1:03

than that but I found what she was talking

1:06

about was super fascinating. What did she

1:08

say about pistachio nuts? Apparently pistachio nuts

1:10

are very flammable. Oh my goodness.

1:12

It appears in lessons in chemistry as

1:14

well. So there you

1:16

go, if you want to start a fire like Bonnie did in

1:19

her kitchen twice in London,

1:21

don't do

1:23

anything with pistachio nuts. Good to know that,

1:26

thank you. Good to know, yes. Now let's

1:30

talk about your book because you

1:32

have done something which doesn't happen very often in

1:37

cookbooks, certainly in baking books where

1:40

your first section is about

1:43

all of the basics,

1:45

all of the building blocks of where

1:47

you start with baking. Not

1:50

so much with ingredients although there is a bit

1:52

about that but about some of these basic recipes

1:54

and if you nail these you get them right.

1:56

Why did you want to do that? I think

1:59

for me. A really

2:01

important part of a successful cookbook is

2:03

that you've explained everything to the reader

2:06

and I think that there's a lot

2:08

of mystery around baking. People

2:10

get quite nervous around it because it seems

2:12

a little bit stricter than cooking but actually

2:15

if you kind of get given a handful

2:17

of recipes that are really strong, if you're

2:19

equipped with those and you can use them

2:21

in different ways and change them, it makes

2:24

the experience much more enjoyable. So I really

2:26

wanted this book to be super functional and

2:28

I felt like that was the first place

2:30

that I needed to start giving some

2:33

really simple, basic recipes that

2:35

give people more confidence in the

2:37

kitchen. And you start with one

2:39

that you say you don't particularly

2:41

like it which is buttercream. Yeah,

2:44

yeah so for me... What's wrong with buttercream?

2:46

Well for me, I think it's my palate. I'm

2:50

a pastry chef but I don't like things that

2:52

are overly sweet. So

2:54

I find that often the buttercream that

2:56

I've tasted is very much focused on

2:58

the appearance of the buttercream and the

3:00

structure of the buttercream rather than the

3:03

flavour. For me cakes and baking is

3:05

all about flavour, same as it is

3:07

with cooking. They're not different in

3:09

that respect. And so I

3:11

wanted to make a buttercream that's actually really smooth

3:14

but it doesn't require any hot syrups.

3:16

It is sort of the same style as

3:18

an Italian buttercream. So

3:20

yeah that's why I don't like buttercream.

3:23

It's the sweetness and the graininess of

3:25

the sugar. But this recipe avoids those

3:27

two things. And so this

3:29

is where one of your... Is it fair to

3:31

say it's one of your favourite ingredients when your

3:33

pantry staples comes in? Yes,

3:35

are you talking about sweetened condensed milk? I am.

3:38

Oh I love that stuff. But I grew

3:40

up, I think a lot of Kiwi kids

3:42

grew up eating sweetened condensed milk from the

3:44

tin after your mum had baked some

3:46

cookies or something. But it's a

3:49

great ingredient. I love using

3:51

different syrups and sort of different

3:53

ways to sweeten things that is

3:55

a little bit more interesting than sugar. And

3:58

also there are notes I think on the bottom of... all

4:00

these recipes of what

4:02

you can add, just even some first ideas of what you

4:04

can add to make things a wee bit

4:06

different, whether that's some crushed up Oreos or

4:08

if you want to make it lemon or chocolate

4:10

or whatever kind of flavourings to add.

4:13

Yeah, I think for me, I

4:16

really want people to understand, especially from reading

4:18

this book that a recipe is a recipe

4:20

and you can change and adapt that depending

4:22

on what you have in the pantry or

4:25

what your palate prefers. So I've tried

4:27

to give some different suggestions of how

4:29

you can change it depending on what

4:31

you like so people don't

4:33

feel like they're so sort of

4:36

forced to go a certain direction

4:38

with their baking. Is this something,

4:40

particularly for baking, that people can

4:42

be anxious about because it is

4:45

about precision, it's about chemistry, it's

4:48

about getting the quantities of the

4:50

right things right? Exactly.

4:53

I think it is, there's a lot

4:55

of nervousness around baking in general. Can

4:58

you change a certain ingredient? Can't you?

5:01

What can you swap out? But I

5:03

think from being surrounded by really amazing

5:05

bakers growing up but also working

5:07

in professional kitchens with chefs that

5:09

are always adapting to the situation,

5:12

there's actually a lot that you can

5:14

change. It's absolutely a chemistry and you

5:16

need to understand some basic rules but

5:18

if you have something like this book

5:20

to sort of guide you, you really

5:22

realise that actually there's a lot that

5:24

you can adjust and change and

5:27

your baking is going to turn out just as great. Where

5:30

did a love of cooking start for you? I've

5:33

always been surrounded by incredible food.

5:35

My dad's an amazing cook, an

5:37

incredible cook and then

5:39

my mum is an amazing baker

5:41

so were my grandparents. So

5:44

for me I was always surrounded by

5:46

great food. I love to read and

5:48

I remember being really young and always

5:50

reading cookbooks like from age 5. It

5:53

was like the book that I was really obsessed with.

5:55

I wouldn't read many kids' books. I'd only read cookbooks

5:57

so maybe it's like an innate part of my personal

5:59

life. personality that I love cooking

6:02

and baking. But yeah, I've

6:04

always been surrounded by great food and

6:06

fascinated by recipes and altering recipes. Then

6:09

when I went through university, that was

6:11

sort of a way to relax my mind

6:13

because I think I've got quite a busy

6:15

mind. So it's also good for my mental

6:17

health. Yeah, you ended up doing

6:19

a master's I think at university. Yes.

6:22

But in politics, which isn't the standard

6:24

way of getting into a kitchen to be a church?

6:27

No, it's not. I studied my

6:30

master of politics down at the

6:32

University of Otago. I specialised in

6:34

Taiwanese foreign policy. But

6:37

for me, I've always been writing

6:39

about food and the two, my

6:41

degree and my career as

6:43

a chef and a food writer, very much

6:45

help each other. So for me,

6:48

I was always fascinated by the politics of

6:50

food and this book is very

6:52

much influenced by the climate that

6:54

we're in now, especially with the cost

6:56

of living crisis. So there's certain influences

6:59

that my degree has had on

7:01

my career as a chef. Absolutely.

7:05

And certainly for several

7:08

of the recipes in the book, there is

7:10

mention of flat cooking in

7:13

Dunedin or there is mention of what

7:15

was being cooked during lockdown. And for a lot

7:17

of people, they came back

7:19

to baking in lockdown. I mean, who

7:21

didn't make sourdough in lockdown? Oh, we

7:23

all did. We all did. Yeah. So

7:25

for you, how much of

7:27

that was, I

7:30

guess, crystallising that idea

7:32

that it is about making beautiful

7:34

things, but also it's about making beautiful things

7:37

for other people, for the community. I

7:40

think that that is really what baking is.

7:42

I think that's why I enjoy baking the

7:44

most. It's sort of like cooking is, broadly

7:47

cooking is an act of love, but I

7:49

think especially baking, it's a sort of treat.

7:51

It's this extra thing, going the extra mile,

7:54

often giving it to a friend or a

7:56

loved one. And so for

7:58

me, I really. I really

8:01

wanted us to kind as

8:03

take inspiration from those experiences

8:05

that with oh see it

8:07

I recently and create a

8:09

book that was easy, accessible,

8:11

enjoyable and just fun. Know

8:15

if we took my masters? Of for moments.

8:17

The. Must assess Ginger cakes. Are.

8:20

In the books. From

8:22

had to put them in the books of

8:24

new I think I had so I think

8:27

said it's but honestly I'm very proud of

8:29

that recipe because it really is the first

8:31

recipe that I fully wrote on my own.

8:33

Kind of out of nowhere so I

8:35

had a very proud bid for the

8:37

or honestly and as it's an increase

8:39

incredibly delicious cake. I don't really abated

8:41

any more ama aftermath to see if

8:43

I sort of stopped faking it it

8:45

kind of the last the enjoyment put

8:47

I think was there was some it's

8:49

anxiety around making that cake pathogens at

8:51

the time that I am of course

8:53

there in there and it's a great

8:55

recipe. Your case actually has been tough

8:58

saying and is he made you didn't

9:00

to cakes. Are from the recipe

9:02

yesterday and they were delicious! She

9:04

sings a lesson, now I'm making the

9:06

fish pie cells. Real time advice

9:08

from Alice. Please can you

9:11

please ask Alice? She says

9:13

as the mustard component is

9:15

mustard powder or. Something like these.

9:17

I'm not in the recipe. It.

9:19

says. Soon.

9:22

Where's. It gone. It's.

9:26

As two. Tablespoons of mustard?

9:28

Yes, okay, so that's I'm talking

9:30

about. Ah, the like. And liquid

9:33

mustard. So you can use any

9:35

kind if you've got whole grain,

9:37

stays on whatever, You had on. but

9:39

again the if you just had mustard

9:41

powder and must have thought it was

9:43

to do the same thing maybe reduce

9:45

our as a little bit. So let's

9:47

say it looks at once he teaspoon

9:49

of mustard taught us that yet any

9:51

must have that you have if you

9:53

don't have mustard powder or pacey can

9:55

use mustard seeds are you don't even.

9:57

Need to add mustard and it will still be delicious. It

10:00

up you think? Okay fantastic It's know

10:02

I'm loves people are making this morning.

10:04

Actually I suspect this is not something

10:06

from your book. I'm a to think

10:08

it's a new book anyway. having Reddit

10:10

the other. Day. He

10:13

pieces baking peanut my dog treats. Oh

10:16

wow. Fiverr depicts. The dogs

10:18

islamic student and thank you for

10:20

letting us do feet out. One

10:22

other thing though the I was

10:24

interested in talking to buy it

10:27

was an enemy to Ces. How

10:31

do you deal with having

10:34

such? Ah, This is a full

10:36

on on such a debilitating condition when you have

10:38

gone. Through a new pretty full

10:40

on degree working. In kitchens being

10:42

on you see til de yeah this

10:44

is ah this is something that I'm

10:46

very passionate about because I think you

10:48

know a lot of. As for anyone

10:50

with a Dimitrios us and serve real

10:53

challenge and but especially you know a

10:55

lot of us they're having to me

10:57

to Isis have you know it's a

10:59

high pressure jobs or physically demanding jobs

11:01

and then at south and brings a

11:03

whole nother challenge if you have a

11:05

chronic pain to me and Spain as

11:07

that of a lack of progress but

11:09

when I started and kitchens are. More. Even

11:12

in southern Mass to see if my

11:14

intimate see us as got really really

11:16

bad and so I had to set

11:18

of take my health quite seriously. So

11:20

now I'm I'm I'm very careful with

11:22

how I exercise. I don't put too

11:24

much prefer myself to exercise as much.

11:27

I take those bikes when I need

11:29

to. I have a great an incredible

11:31

bosses that I communicate my needs to

11:33

and they and they've They're wonderful a

11:35

neighbour thinks that and I also think

11:37

as loud as keeping yourself healthy, well

11:40

rested and on top of your. On

11:42

top of your health is important but also

11:44

just knowing when to when you need to

11:46

have a bright eyed my body doesn't work

11:48

like a body. That doesn't have in the me

11:50

to Isis and I've accepted. That soon and I

11:52

know my limits. Side to speak those?

11:54

yeah I'm Have you ever find

11:56

that Foods has. Made it better or worse because

11:59

court of in the wrong. overlapping gut

12:01

symptoms as well with Sandu. Yeah,

12:03

yeah, very complicated. Yeah, for

12:06

me, there was a point

12:08

where my endometriosis was really

12:10

bad, and it actually became quite a

12:12

challenge to sort of enjoy food, which

12:15

was quite a really sad time for me. But

12:18

luckily, now I've kind of

12:20

learned what foods trigger

12:23

my body. I try to avoid them. And

12:26

I just know that there's little simple steps that

12:28

I can take to sort of keep

12:30

my body on a lower level of pain.

12:33

But yeah, it's a tricky one. Food, it

12:36

can really trigger the symptoms in the body. But

12:39

kind of understanding your body, and I'm

12:41

no doctor, but I've learned how to,

12:43

with the help of professionals, understand my

12:45

body and my triggers and just avoiding

12:47

those has meant that I

12:50

feel much more in control of my

12:52

health. I'm enjoying food as well. Excellent.

12:55

Quick question that's just come in, actually, saying,

12:57

how would you go about making recipes dairy

12:59

free? I guess it depends what dairy you're

13:01

trying to substitute. It's

13:03

super simple, especially with

13:06

this cookbook. I've designed a lot

13:08

of the recipes, for example, the

13:10

cakes to be a liquid fat

13:12

and a liquid sugar. So

13:15

what that means is like liquid fat can be melted

13:17

butter, but it can also be oil. So

13:19

most of the recipe is completely

13:21

interchangeable with oil, cream. You

13:23

can use coconut cream or

13:26

any other dairy free cream. And then

13:28

your milks, you've got all of your

13:30

milk replacements. There's also some great dairy

13:32

free butters. But honestly,

13:34

just substitute your

13:36

fats with other fats and you'll be fine.

13:39

Fantastic. Alice Taylor, thank you very much. The

13:41

new book is Alice in Cake Lands, you're

13:43

listening to R&D National.