0:00

You're listening to the micro version of

0:02

the Savage Lovecast at savage.love. Have you

0:04

been naughty or nice? If

0:16

you're stuck in a relationship

0:18

quandary Or if you're looking

0:21

for sexual sex

0:24

somewhere you might

0:27

tell your friends

0:30

about it,

0:32

you might humble

0:35

brag. But without

0:47

pics, without video, you couldn't

0:50

prove you, for instance,

0:52

had sex in Vatican City,

0:55

in a dark corner of a deserted

0:57

gallery, in the Vatican Museum, which

0:59

means you ran the risk of being disbelieved

1:01

when you shared that story. You ran the

1:03

risk of your friends concluding that

1:05

your incredible sex story was, in

1:08

their estimation, not credible.

1:11

But having proof you did some crazy sex

1:13

thing? That carries its

1:15

own risks, as we all saw over

1:17

the last few days. Over

1:20

the weekend, The Daily Caller, the

1:22

garbage right-wing news website founded by garbage

1:24

right-wing newsperson Tucker Carlson, posted a video

1:26

of two men having sex in a

1:29

senate hearing room. The video

1:31

was shot by one of the men and

1:33

after establishing what was going on, the

1:36

cameraman was fucking a twink in a

1:38

black jockstrap with a very hot ass

1:40

on top of the table where US

1:42

senators sit during very important hearings, the

1:45

cameraman panned around the room to

1:47

make sure we could all see the

1:50

iconic marble wall looming behind them as

1:52

they fucked with the seal of the US

1:55

senate on it. Pics.

1:57

Video. So it. happened.

2:01

My first reaction? That

2:03

looks like a normal tourist

2:05

visit to me if

2:08

we were talking about a gay tourist

2:10

visiting Puerto Vallarta and not a senate

2:12

staffer slipping into an empty hearing room

2:14

with a gentleman caller. So

2:16

how did the daily caller get its hands on this

2:18

video? Well, it appears that

2:20

the staffer who was getting railed,

2:23

the staffer getting staffed, posted the

2:25

video and screenshots from it to

2:27

his own social media accounts in

2:29

private group chats. Aidan

2:32

Mazy, Zieriposky, forgive me

2:34

Aidan if I mispronounced your name,

2:37

shared it with his internet friends for likes

2:39

and for clout and one of

2:41

his internet friends, probably seeking clout

2:43

of their own, shared the video

2:45

with a reporter from the daily caller.

2:49

So I would now like to propose

2:51

a corollary to pics or it didn't

2:53

happen. A corollary that goes like this,

2:56

no pics and you can deny it

2:58

happened if you need to. And

3:01

if you're the kind of person who enjoys

3:03

having crazy sex in places where you're not

3:05

supposed to be having sex at all, you

3:07

might need to deny it. And

3:10

pics and video, once you've released

3:12

them into the wild, they make denials impossible.

3:15

Pics and it happened.

3:18

In addition to some predictable homophobic nonsense,

3:20

there was talk about how it was

3:23

unprotected sex because the top wasn't wearing

3:25

a condom. Yeah, it's true. He wasn't

3:27

wearing a condom, but it is not 1986. We live in

3:31

the age of prep and doxypep. So

3:33

just because they weren't using condoms doesn't

3:35

mean they weren't having protected sex. The

3:38

usual haters also jumped in to argue

3:40

that this video of two gay individuals

3:43

misbehaving proved that no gay person,

3:45

no gay individual could ever

3:47

be trusted ever anywhere. As

3:49

if straight people in DC with a

3:52

lot more power haven't gotten caught having

3:54

sex where they're not supposed to be

3:56

having sex with people. They're not supposed

3:58

to be having sex with from

4:00

Bill Clinton in the Oval

4:02

Office to Lauren Boebert at

4:05

Beetlejuice. Anyway, on top of the usual

4:07

homophobic nonsense, we retreated to yet another

4:09

round of why anyone would

4:12

be so reckless, why anyone would do

4:14

something so risky. If I had a

4:17

sign, I'd tap it, but I don't

4:19

have a sign. So I'm just going

4:21

to say it. People don't do crazy,

4:23

reckless, risky sex things despite the crazy

4:26

or the risk or the wreck. They

4:29

do it. Some people do it. The

4:31

risk takers, the thrill seekers, the sensation

4:33

seeking personality types because it's crazy and

4:35

risky and reckless. A little danger for

4:37

them, a little risk for them or

4:39

a lot is a huge turn

4:41

on. People with risk

4:43

taking personalities, sensation seeking personality

4:46

types have always been with

4:48

us. They have always existed.

4:51

But bring those personality types into the age

4:53

of social media. Bring them into

4:55

the age of showing off the age

4:57

of pics and likes and cloud and

5:00

pics and it happened. And of course,

5:02

this happens. Hell, worse

5:04

happens. So many people

5:07

have fallen off cliffs and over

5:09

waterfalls into boiling hot pools of

5:11

water at Yellowstone. 379 people have

5:13

died between 2008 and 2021 seeking the perfect selfie that the

5:19

Journal of Travel Medicine called for

5:21

the declaration of a death by

5:23

selfie public health emergency.

5:26

Now this kid isn't dead. No

5:29

one died, but he did lose

5:31

his job. Senator Ben Cardin

5:33

fired him before the weekend was

5:35

over. I think maybe

5:37

the most remarkable thing about this sex

5:39

scandal is the fact that no one

5:41

had heard of Senator Ben Cardin before.

5:44

Ben Cardin has been in the Senate since 2007. I

5:47

am kind of a news junkie. I'd never heard of

5:49

Senator Ben Cardin or if I'd heard of him, it

5:51

didn't stick. But one

5:53

sensation seeking demon twink on his staff getting

5:55

his ass fucked in the hearing room and

5:58

now we all know who Senator Ben Cardin

6:00

is. Ben Carden is. Aiden,

6:03

the twink who got fucked in the hearing

6:05

room, released a statement shortly before he was

6:07

fired, this has been a difficult time for

6:09

me as I have been attacked

6:11

for who I love to pursue

6:14

a political agenda. Girl,

6:16

no. You aren't being attacked for who

6:18

you love. The thing about having sex

6:20

somewhere you might get in trouble for having

6:23

sex if you got caught, or

6:25

somewhere you'll definitely get in trouble for having sex

6:27

if you get caught, is that you're going to

6:29

get in trouble if you get caught having sex

6:31

there and you got caught. And

6:33

not because someone at the Daily Caller was spying

6:35

on you, you were

6:37

being railed, not

6:40

tailed. You trusted the

6:42

wrong people. You trusted

6:44

strangers on the internet. And

6:47

out of all the risky things a person

6:49

could possibly do, that may be the riskiest thing

6:52

of all. All right, coming up

6:54

on today's show on the micro Savage

6:56

Lovecast, your big Qs, my big As,

6:58

and on the Magnum Savage Lovecast, what

7:00

happens when online hucksters convince unhappy men,

7:03

they can be better men by not

7:05

jacking off? Turns out

7:07

they don't get any happier. Neuroscientist

7:09

and sex researcher Dr. Nicole Prowsey

7:11

is here to share what she's

7:14

learned about the

7:16

online NoFap community. And

7:19

on Thursday we are putting out

7:21

a Sex and Politics podcast. That's my

7:23

occasional bonus podcast for Magnum subs where

7:25

I chat with smart people about sex

7:28

and politics and then force them to

7:30

degrade themselves by answering a sex

7:32

question with me from one of my

7:34

listeners. Our new Sex and Politics features

7:37

Dr. Kelly Wienersmith and Zach Wienersmith, the

7:39

husband and wife team who co-authored A

7:41

City on Mars, a fascinating book about

7:44

what space travel and colonizing Mars

7:46

would really entail. And guess what? If

7:48

we want to populate Mars,

7:50

it's going to entail a lot of

7:52

fucking on Mars. How will that work?

7:55

It's a fun conversation and we will be sharing

7:57

it with our micro Savage Lovecast listeners this week.

8:00

for free to give you

8:02

a taste of what being a Magnum sub

8:04

is all about. It's our holiday gift to

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you. And speaking of the Magnum,

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A Magnum sub gets your loved ones,

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to give the gift of a Magnum

8:33

Savage Lovecast. Alright, let's get to the

8:35

show. This episode of the Savage

8:37

Lovecast is brought to you by Dipsy. Dipsy

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by the good folks at Squarespace. They make

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save 10% off your first purchase

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of a website or domain. Hey

9:11

Dan, huge fan. Mid 30s by

9:13

guy in the rural Midwest just

9:15

became single for the first time

9:17

in like over 10 years last

9:19

May. I've been avidly dating all

9:21

summer, pretty successful on the apps.

9:23

Definitely listen to your podcast a

9:25

shit ton for help with that.

9:28

But so anyway, I have a dating

9:30

etiquette question. I haven't really formed any

9:32

connections per se, including

9:36

one guy I saw about four

9:38

months for about four to six dates over

9:40

the course of the summer. He

9:43

seemed really into me but he

9:45

was a lot younger than me. My lifestyle

9:47

didn't really seem that compatible and also there

9:49

just wasn't a whole lot of like chemistry

9:51

or I wasn't telling any sparks. I was

9:53

starting to wonder how long I should give

9:55

that sort of thing because I didn't really

9:57

feel like I was finding it and anybody

9:59

then actually I did find it pretty recently in

10:01

this other guy, it's a pretty new relationship, but

10:03

we've been hanging out a lot more. And

10:06

it just feels a lot different than

10:08

all the other dates have been on and stuff. It feels

10:10

a lot more intense and serious. And

10:13

I hadn't told boy number one about boy

10:15

number two, just simply because it felt like

10:17

our relationship had already run its course. We

10:20

haven't hung out in almost two months now, and it

10:22

feels like it'd be more just salting the wound to

10:24

hit up someone I barely talked to, to be like,

10:26

hey, I'm seeing somebody else. But

10:28

also boy number two is a pretty new

10:30

relationship that could really still run its course

10:33

too. So it feels presumptuous to talk

10:35

about it like that. There's no expectations of

10:37

monogamy on either side, so it's not like

10:40

a moral issue, but boy number one showed

10:42

up to a show. I was

10:44

on a date with boy number

10:46

two at last weekend unexpectedly. And

10:49

as far as I know, I was the only

10:51

one who had noticed boy number two works early

10:53

in the morning. So I just easily orchestrated our

10:55

exit by

10:58

being like, hey, are you tired? You know, you

11:00

can go home. I was pretty late when boy

11:02

number one showed up. So my question is, how

11:04

should I be handling this sort of thing, I

11:06

guess? Our social circles don't

11:08

really overlap, but it's a pretty small

11:10

town, so they necessarily overlap at some

11:13

points. Should I be debriefing

11:15

people? Like, hey, obviously I'm tender, I'm

11:17

definitely seeing other people. I

11:20

feel like that's implied, and not really that emotionally

11:22

intelligent to say all the time. Or am I

11:24

overthinking it, and it's just not a big deal

11:26

for someone I'm dating to see

11:28

me downtown with somebody else in

11:31

the first handful of dates or so. I

11:33

don't wanna feel like I'm sneaking around

11:36

or anything. You're overthinking this. You

11:38

went on a few dates with boy number one

11:41

earlier in the year, earlier in the summer, and

11:44

you weren't feeling it. There were no sparks, no

11:46

chemistry, you didn't have that much in common. The

11:48

age gap for you felt significant,

11:51

and you stopped hitting him up,

11:53

stopped calling him, stopped asking him

11:56

to hang out, and he wasn't

11:58

exactly beating Down your door. The. Either.

12:01

So what do you owe him?

12:03

What are you owe him Now,

12:05

This person that you briefly dated.

12:08

Both. Live in the same place. It's obvious,

12:10

since you've run into each other once out

12:12

of the world, that you may run into

12:15

each other again. What do you owe him?

12:17

You. Owe him. Common.

12:20

courtesy. You're. Not

12:22

interested, He's not interested. You both kind

12:24

of sorta made that clear to each

12:26

other. there was a kind of mutual

12:28

low stakes d escalation. Any will call

12:30

this a ghost and you didn't goes

12:32

to other. He just walked it back.

12:34

You express some interest, went on a

12:37

few days you are feeling it. He

12:39

express some interest when a few dates

12:41

with you. He wasn't feeling it. He

12:43

stopped hitting each other ups but you

12:45

know who each other our. And.

12:47

So what do you do when you

12:49

run into him in public, in your

12:51

with someone else? You're not with somebody

12:53

else. You smile, you nod when you

12:55

pass each other, you stop for mom

12:57

and say hey, how are you doing,

12:59

how are you And then you introduce

13:01

him to the person that you're with

13:03

and although young he may be idiot.

13:05

I hope he is not and he

13:07

will be able to gas or tell

13:09

that this might be somebody else that

13:11

you're on a date with. And you're

13:13

allowed to go on dates with other

13:16

guys. Or. Dates with him

13:18

was not a marriage, he wasn't

13:20

even that much of a relationship

13:22

you casually seeing each other and

13:24

then you began. And.

13:26

Casually and see each other. And now

13:29

when you see each other, when you

13:31

run into each other out of public,

13:33

your question was, what do you owe

13:36

him You don't owe him an explanation.

13:38

He knows that you weren't interested in

13:40

seeing him him anymore, and he assumes

13:42

that you probably ascertain that he wasn't

13:45

interest in seeing you anymore either. Would.

13:47

You don't want to do. Is. That

13:49

thing where you assume that if you're.

13:52

Kind. courteous polite to somebody the

13:54

hooked up with once or twice or

13:56

a few times when you see them

13:58

around that they're in would interpret that

14:00

as your pining for them or still

14:02

interested in them and you don't want

14:04

to mislead them so you aren't courteous,

14:06

you aren't kind, you don't acknowledge them,

14:08

you don't acknowledge their presence or

14:11

their humanity and you're cold and

14:13

you ignore them in public to

14:15

avoid the catastrophe of them thinking

14:18

you might still be interested and

14:20

then you having to say, oh

14:22

no, not still interested.

14:24

In this case, I don't think

14:26

there's any risk of confusion. He

14:28

knows you're not interested. You

14:30

know or should know he's not

14:32

interested in you either. So

14:36

what do you do? You're older,

14:38

you're wiser, be

14:41

the grown up that you are,

14:43

be the more grown up person

14:45

than he is and just be

14:47

kind, be nice. Say

14:49

hello, ask him how he's doing. Introduce him to

14:51

your date. If you end up

14:54

with a boyfriend, you can introduce him to

14:56

your boyfriend and I

14:58

promise you he won't be devastated. I

15:00

promise you he won't burst into tears in

15:02

the bar in front of you and your new

15:05

boyfriend because it's clear from

15:07

his actions that he wasn't interested in

15:09

being your boyfriend. No more interested in

15:11

being your boyfriend than you were interested

15:13

in him being yours. Hey

15:16

Dan, been with my boyfriend for about

15:18

a year. Found out

15:20

that he has a sugar

15:22

mama that he's never

15:25

met. Digital only apparently. And I

15:28

don't know what to do about it if

15:30

I have a problem with it

15:32

or not. Kept it a

15:34

secret during our entire relationship. He's

15:37

trying to be honest about it now,

15:39

honest-ish, but I don't

15:41

know what to do. Am I jealous? Am I...

15:46

I'm so confused and there's so much more to

15:48

this story and I need so much help. Oh

15:51

my god, I want to hear what

15:53

else there is to this story. You've

15:56

been dating this guy for a year

15:58

and he's disclosed to you after

16:00

a year that he has this relationship

16:05

online only with a sugar mama and

16:07

that is just somebody who enjoys

16:10

sending him money maybe there's some

16:12

exchange there maybe he lavishes

16:14

some time and attention on

16:17

this person in exchange for the money maybe

16:20

photos maybe text messages but there's some

16:22

with a sugar mama sugar daddy or

16:25

a fin-dump fin sub kind of

16:27

relationship there's some back

16:30

and forth what the person

16:32

sending the money is usually paying for

16:35

is attention engagement and

16:37

that can take many different

16:40

forms I'd be curious to know what form

16:42

it takes what he is giving this person

16:45

who is his sugar mama in exchange

16:48

for all this money I think

16:52

the relationship he has with this other person is

16:55

kind of interesting and

16:57

harmless it has brought money

17:00

into his life if he's not being you

17:02

know if you're talking to him about the way he engages

17:05

with this person and he doesn't seem

17:07

avaricious if he doesn't

17:09

seem like he's taking advantage of somebody

17:11

who's sad or pathetic and

17:13

taking money from them and holding

17:16

them in contempt there's nothing you've

17:18

learned then about his

17:20

character that might be

17:22

raising red flags he just

17:24

has this interesting

17:27

unique but not unheard of financial

17:30

arrangement with somebody that he met on

17:32

the internet and those are way

17:35

more common than I think anybody really

17:38

knows we have no estimate for the

17:40

numbers of people out there who

17:43

have these kind of flirtatious sugar baby

17:45

sugar mama sugar daddy relationships

17:48

although sugar mama sugar daddy relationships are

17:50

usually understand understood to have a physical

17:52

component this little girlfriend experience or boyfriend

17:55

experience in there but if this is

17:57

an online only sugar mama arrangement Okay,

18:00

well there's some texting, maybe

18:02

some sexting going on for

18:05

the money, and it's

18:07

bringing her joy. It's

18:10

bringing in a little money and

18:13

therefore hopefully joy or satisfaction in

18:15

the work for him. And

18:18

him having this connection with this other human

18:20

being takes nothing away from you. In

18:23

fact, it may give you something if

18:25

he's spending some of the money that his sugar mom

18:27

is giving to him on you. I

18:31

don't know why you wouldn't be kind of

18:33

intrigued and delighted, except that you're having that

18:35

reaction people sometimes have when somebody has a

18:37

kink or is doing something erotically or sexually

18:40

that isn't something that they thought of or

18:42

that they're into, where you have that knee-jerk

18:44

negative reaction, a sex negative reaction

18:46

because, ew, yuck, no, not

18:50

my thing, not something I understand, not something

18:52

I have any experience with or interest in.

18:55

And therefore, we are sort

18:57

of socialized to recoil from that unfamiliar

19:01

erotic stimulus

19:03

or arrangement. And

19:06

what I think you should do is set

19:09

aside that impulse to recoil

19:11

and just listen to your boyfriend about what

19:15

this relationship is like, what she

19:17

expects from him, what he's been

19:19

able to expect from her, how

19:22

their interactions are

19:24

characterized, whether there's respect and mutual

19:26

affection or, again, contempt

19:28

and exploitation, and just

19:31

sit with it for a while. And that it

19:33

took him a year to disclose this. Your

19:36

reaction is evidence is

19:39

one of the reasons why people who have

19:42

fucked up unique, interesting,

19:46

unexpected relationships or connections with

19:48

people erotically are sometimes hesitant

19:51

to just disclose them. Would

19:53

you have had a different reaction if he told

19:55

you two weeks in or on the first date?

19:58

It would have been a really weird thing for him to tell you. you the

20:00

night you met, right? And so he waited

20:02

to tell you at some point

20:05

and he kicked his can down the road. Well, was

20:08

there a point where it would have been ideal, the

20:11

ideal moment for him to

20:13

stop kicking the can and turn and tell you about

20:15

the can? A month, three

20:17

months, six months, a year? When? And

20:20

if you can't answer that question

20:22

with an actual sort of timeframe,

20:25

all right, well, then maybe he's

20:27

not the guy for you. But if you

20:30

like him, and you've

20:32

been able to drill down on this, and

20:34

there's nothing awful going on

20:36

here, don't think you should hold this against

20:39

him. What happened here except two people

20:42

connected on the internet and

20:44

brought each other in this

20:47

horrifying, dark, cold world,

20:50

a little joy, let him

20:53

have it and let this woman have

20:56

had what she did with your boyfriend, if it

20:58

needs to end or let her continue to have

21:00

what it is that she has with her boyfriend,

21:03

if it can go on without

21:05

taking too much time and emotional

21:07

energy away from you. And then again,

21:10

you know, if your boyfriend's willing to spend

21:12

all the money he's getting from his sugar

21:14

mama, I'm taking you to fancy restaurants for

21:16

fancy meals, everybody can win here. This

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episode is brought to you by Dipsy. If

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22:41

Hi Dan. Okay, so I've

22:43

been texting with a guy online.

22:45

The relationship is totally online for

22:47

now. But thinking about meeting up

22:49

in person, except yesterday he

22:51

sent me this really close

22:54

up of his dick. And

22:56

I noticed these little warts that

22:59

reminded me of when I had

23:01

the papilloma virus. And

23:03

I don't know how to tell him that I

23:05

would never meet up in person if he has

23:07

those warts. Should I tell him to go get

23:09

them checked out? And is there any way he

23:11

can test for that? I really

23:13

like to tell him I don't think

23:15

it's nice to be spreading this virus.

23:18

But it's embarrassing to tell

23:20

him that I think he has it.

23:23

Any tip? First,

23:26

what you've seen may not be warts.

23:29

There are conditions that men can have, or

23:31

people that penises can have, that

23:34

appear to be warts or look like warts. There is

23:36

a condition called pearly penile

23:39

papules that are little

23:42

raised white bumps, spikes usually around the

23:44

head of the penis, that

23:46

can look like it's actually transmitted

23:48

infection but aren't. It's just spikes

23:51

on a dick and they are

23:53

harmless and not

23:55

contagious. Now, warts can

23:57

look like pearly penile papules.

24:01

and pearly penile papules can look

24:03

like warts. Also, I can't

24:06

even say it, pearly penile papules,

24:08

Peter Piper picked a pack of

24:10

pearly penile papules, also

24:12

can look like a virus,

24:15

a contagious virus called molluscum that

24:18

results in, you know, wherever the molluscum

24:20

infection takes root, little white

24:22

bumps that also can look like HPV, can

24:26

look like genital warts.

24:28

So it may be possible if you say to this

24:31

guy, looks like he might have warts, he may say

24:33

to you, no, no, it's Peter

24:35

Piper picked a pack of pearly penile papules

24:39

and not warts. It's entirely possible that

24:41

he's had this checked out already and

24:43

the reason why he sent this picture

24:45

without hesitation was because it's not

24:48

a sexually transmitted infection.

24:50

Now, most people who

24:52

have PPP worry that

24:55

others will perceive it as a sexually transmitted infection,

24:57

so it's weird that he would just send the

24:59

picture without any prologue, without

25:01

saying something about it in

25:04

advance. Yeah, so I

25:06

guess it's possible that it could be warts when

25:08

he's just dumb and I'm not trying to gaslight

25:11

you, I'm not trying to second guess your

25:14

lived experience with HPV and

25:16

warts and you may have absolutely

25:19

correctly diagnosed him, which is why

25:21

I think you should fucking say something and what

25:23

do you have to lose? What are you risking

25:25

here? This is just somebody that you're

25:27

swapping dirty picks with

25:29

and you have no IRL

25:33

interactions with this person, the

25:36

stakes seem pretty low

25:38

if he has a really bad reaction

25:40

to you saying the kind

25:42

and decent thing, to you stepping outside

25:44

the flow of the sexting and the

25:47

dirty talk and saying, hey look, I

25:49

noticed this in this

25:51

picture and I just wanted to suggest

25:54

that you should go get that looked at

25:56

by a doctor if you haven't already because

26:00

could be HPV, which

26:03

most sexually active adults have been exposed to

26:05

and many people have and aren't aware they

26:08

have and everybody should get

26:10

vaccinated against HPV, he should get vaccinated

26:12

against HPV, you should be vaccinated against

26:15

HPV, but you

26:17

should get that checked out. And then it

26:20

instantly becomes one of those sorting

26:23

hat moments, one of those instances

26:25

where you've told somebody one

26:28

thing about you, which is you care

26:30

enough about them and the other people

26:32

they might come into contact to to

26:34

take this risk, to fucking say something.

26:36

Their reaction tells you everything that you

26:38

might need to know about them, including

26:41

whether you want to continue sexting with

26:43

them and certainly whether you would ever

26:45

want to meet up in person with

26:48

this guy. So put it

26:51

in a text message, tap it

26:53

out with your thumbs and

26:55

hit send. And if he's offended,

26:57

all right, he can fuck the

27:00

fuck off. But if he responds with, hey

27:02

look it's this, it's Peter Piper

27:04

picked a pickle, peanut, blah blah blah, he's

27:07

not necessarily lying and

27:09

he may have already had a doctor look

27:12

at them, but it couldn't hurt for

27:14

you to say, have you had

27:17

a doctor look at those? And

27:19

if he is trying to meet up

27:21

with you in person, you absolutely

27:23

just advocating for your own sexual health and

27:25

safety have a right to say, what

27:28

are those and have you had those looked at?

27:30

Send that text now. You

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28:50

Dan, I'm a bisexual

28:53

30 year old polyamorous trans

28:55

woman. I'm a switch

28:57

and I've been exploring my sexuality and

28:59

BDSM over the past year and a

29:01

half. And I found a

29:03

lot of comfort and confidence in the role of

29:05

the dumb. It gives me

29:07

a feeling of power that I enjoy exploring with

29:09

my partners. However,

29:12

I've been increasingly frustrated that

29:14

all of my partners are subs

29:16

or switches who seem

29:19

to always take submissive roles with me. I

29:22

get the feeling that it's related to the fact

29:24

that outside of play, I have

29:26

a confident and bored personality. So

29:29

people tend to see me in a dominant light

29:31

when it comes to kink. I

29:34

have a partner who described themselves

29:36

as a novice dumb and

29:38

I was all right taking it slow and exploring things

29:40

with them, but it was

29:43

always me taking the initiative and

29:45

I rarely felt satisfied with

29:48

our play. Now,

29:51

even they have started taking a submissive role in the

29:53

bedroom with me. And

29:55

I enjoy that play and I love that they trust

29:57

me enough to show me that side of them. But

30:00

I've been trying to explore my submissive

30:03

side for nearly two years and I

30:06

don't feel like I've made any progress

30:08

in that time I've

30:10

gotten the munches and the only people I've

30:13

clicked with have been submissives How

30:16

can I finally find someone to tie me up

30:19

or will I be doomed to Dom the rest

30:21

of my life? There are

30:23

way more subs out there than there are Dom's

30:26

a lot of people who identify as switches

30:30

are Not really that interested

30:32

in switching. They're more interested in the sub

30:34

role But they're willing to play the Dom

30:36

role as a kind of

30:39

I'll flog your back you'll flog mine

30:41

give and take You're

30:43

gonna have to look for those

30:46

people who can play that role in your life

30:48

And you're gonna have to be

30:50

a little bit more assertive and perhaps even transactional

30:53

about your interactions with your casual

30:56

play partners They want

30:58

you to be Dom Okay,

31:01

you can say to them. I will be dominant. I

31:03

will tie you up. We will do these things but

31:07

I need to submit to I

31:10

Am a sub and a Dom. I'm a switch

31:13

and I need that I need that

31:15

back from you I need that energy back for you So you have

31:17

to find it in yourself to Dom me

31:19

to top me if you want me

31:23

to top and Dom you You

31:26

tie up my ass. I'll tie up your ass and Then

31:29

maybe you'll get a little bit more of

31:31

what you want But this idea that because

31:33

you're confident and forward and even assertive that

31:35

people can't see what might be hot about

31:38

dominating you There's so

31:40

many cliches that are like zipping through my

31:42

mind right now Including the best Dom's are

31:44

frustrated subs often true perhaps true in your

31:46

case And another cliche is

31:49

sort of zipping through my mind is that so

31:51

many people who enjoy the submissive role in King

31:54

play are outside of the dungeon or

31:56

the playroom or the

31:58

munch or the play park aggressive,

32:01

dominant, assertive people who enjoy

32:04

giving up, releasing that

32:06

power, transferring it to another person in

32:08

the context of BDSM and kink play.

32:10

And so you're naturally

32:13

confident, forward, assertive personality isn't

32:15

a disqualifier. It's almost something

32:17

that is a

32:19

sign and would recommend you to the

32:21

kind of people and they're out there in kink land, but

32:24

you may have to search a little harder to find them

32:26

because there are 10 subs for

32:28

every dom. There are doms out there who

32:30

particularly get off on dominating somebody who is

32:32

a more dominant type,

32:34

cliche type personality because

32:37

oh my God, this person who is so

32:39

aggressive and confident and assertive and forward is

32:42

submitting to me and what does that say about my

32:44

power? So don't just ask for what you want. Don't

32:46

just put it out there at the munch that you're

32:48

interested in exploring

32:50

your subside as well. Find

32:53

the people who say that they are switches and

32:56

tell them that playing with

32:58

you in the dom role

33:00

is conditioned upon you getting also to

33:02

play with them in the sub role.

33:06

Put your foot down. Be dominant about

33:08

that. Hey Dan,

33:10

Nancy, I'm the tech savvy at-risk youth.

33:13

I am a 40-year-old cis queer

33:15

woman in the Northeast. So

33:18

the other night I was messaging

33:20

with some dude I matched with on

33:22

Tinder and

33:24

our casual conversation took a severe

33:26

left turn when he revealed to

33:28

me that he has

33:31

vacation sex with his mom. Dan,

33:35

it was like watching a car crash in motion.

33:38

I couldn't help but ask a few

33:40

questions trying to understand how did

33:42

this come to be? I was

33:44

trying to be respectful. I don't wanna kink shame

33:47

anyone, but this had

33:49

red flags written all over it.

33:53

Now they have boundaries for what

33:55

it's worth. They are not

33:57

allowed to hook up with each other at home.

34:00

It is only when they are away

34:02

on trips or vacation

34:04

or out of town. He said his

34:06

last girlfriend knew and didn't

34:08

like it, but put up with

34:10

it for as long as they were together,

34:12

knowing it was just the

34:15

status quo. So

34:17

it got me to thinking, is

34:19

this something that has been going on in

34:22

our society all this

34:24

time, or is this some

34:27

new trend that's happening that we're going

34:29

to be navigating and dating from now

34:31

on? I did

34:34

a shallow dive into Reddit and discovered a

34:36

whole thread that is men who

34:38

have sexual, consensual sexual

34:41

relationships with their mothers. So

34:44

tell me, Dan, what do you think?

34:47

No one who was actually having sex with his

34:49

mother would blurt out to somebody

34:52

he just met on Tinder, somebody he was

34:54

hoping might be willing to date him, that

34:57

he was having sex with his mother.

34:59

But whether this guy is actually having

35:02

sex with his mother or he's just making

35:04

shit up online while he's

35:06

chatting anonymously with people that he's meeting

35:08

on dating apps about having sex with

35:10

his mother, still a red flag. Of

35:12

course, it is the biggest, reddest,

35:15

May Day parade, Moscow,

35:18

1983 red flag imaginable if

35:21

he's actually fucking his mom. But

35:23

if he's just, he's one of those

35:25

people out there who has incest fantasies and incest

35:28

porn, as we've discussed before on the

35:30

show, is distressingly popular.

35:33

He's one of those people out there with an incest fantasy

35:36

convincing some stranger on the internet that you're

35:38

never actually going to meet face to face,

35:40

that you're doing this insane fucked up thing.

35:43

And then finding the person

35:46

who instead of immediately blocking you

35:48

begins to ask you respectful questions for fear

35:50

of kink shaming you. And

35:53

that allows you to spin

35:55

out that fantasy scenario just a little bit more

35:57

and you get to inhabit that

36:00

sweet space for a lot of people with

36:02

crazy fantasies where someone out there believing

36:05

that your fantasy is actually a

36:07

lived reality makes that

36:09

fantasy your enjoyment of it while

36:11

you jack off while you're chatting with some lady

36:13

you just met on Tinder about fucking your mom

36:16

that much more intense and

36:18

pleasurable. So my

36:20

money is on this guy

36:22

despite what you may have found

36:24

on Reddit is not fucking his

36:26

mom my money is on this

36:28

guy has incest fantasies that involve

36:30

mother-son incest and when he fantasizes

36:32

about mother-son incest he doesn't picture

36:34

his own mom but some fantasy

36:37

mom figure and he

36:39

was furiously beating off the

36:42

entire time you were talking

36:44

with him. Maybe that's cope

36:46

maybe that's what I would like to believe

36:48

and it's what I'm going to choose to

36:50

believe but I actually think the

36:53

facts and evidence here particularly that

36:55

you just met him on Tinder and

36:58

rather than waiting a year

37:00

or ten until after you were married

37:02

and had a couple of kids and

37:04

extracting yourself from this relationship would

37:07

have been nearly impossible would

37:09

have raised the bar for walking away from him

37:11

as quickly as possible if you

37:13

were really involved and then telling you he's

37:15

fucking his mother no telling you he's fucking

37:17

his mother the minute you guys began to

37:19

chat man he never had

37:22

any intention of meeting you and he's probably done

37:24

this to a million women who

37:26

instantly blocked him. Now

37:29

I'm not blaming the victim here somebody who's lying to you

37:31

and toying with you on the internet and

37:34

you wound up unwittingly playing into

37:36

his masturbatory fantasies that's what happened

37:38

here because if he

37:40

was really doing this he

37:42

would share it anonymously

37:44

maybe on that reddit forum

37:47

you found but he wouldn't be

37:49

telling women that he just met

37:51

on Tinder women he was hoping to actually

37:53

meet IRL in real life in person face

37:55

to face and possibly date about

37:58

this collage. deal-breaker,

38:02

the largest and reddest of red

38:04

flags. And again, it's a red flag,

38:06

whether he's actually hugging his mother or he's just making shit up

38:08

on the internet about hugging his mother, red flag.

38:12

He'll give it another thought, get the fuck out of

38:14

that redded forum, and block him. Alright,

38:17

before we get to this week's listener response calls,

38:19

I want to share a couple of the comments about

38:21

last week's show that were posted at

38:23

savage.love. From Afari, Dan, your Catholic

38:27

upbringing is showing. I showered

38:30

with my dad when I was younger and he would

38:32

sometimes run around the house naked, much to my mom's

38:34

chagrin, and I honestly can't think

38:36

of what his dick looked like. And as

38:38

a gay guy, you'd think I might remember,

38:41

but it just wasn't a big deal then

38:44

or now. Alright, a

38:46

lot of people disagreed with my advice for the caller

38:48

who was thinking about getting a PA that's a dick

38:50

piercing and how he might explain that to his child.

38:53

Perhaps I overreacted, perhaps thinking

38:55

about my dad's dick is

38:57

triggering for me, but

39:00

my advice, don't let your kid see

39:02

your dick and you'll never have to

39:04

explain your PA, did not sit well

39:06

with most of my listeners. Says Sebastian

39:08

from Barcelona, first I have to thank

39:10

you for the excellent podcast, Dan, however

39:12

I was very surprised by

39:14

your comment, something along the line

39:16

of dads do not need to see their

39:18

kids naked, maybe your dad did not because

39:21

he did not change a diaper or bathe

39:23

you, are those mother's tasks? There

39:25

is nothing wrong with your relationship with your

39:27

father Dan, but we aspire to live in

39:29

a better world than the one reflected by

39:32

your comments. Alright,

39:34

in my dad's defense he changed

39:37

diapers, my dad bathed us, I

39:39

didn't say my dad never saw

39:41

my baby dick, I said I

39:43

didn't see my dad's grown-up dick.

39:46

Says Dame Noir, Dan's take

39:48

is so weirdly classic prude

39:51

American to me, I'm

39:53

from the Netherlands and we definitely

39:55

saw my dad's dick growing up, don't

39:57

US parents take baths with their kids?

40:00

or go swimming. I guess

40:02

my parents didn't. Maybe other

40:05

US parents do. I will

40:07

defer to the

40:09

sense of the Senate, the wisdom of the

40:11

crowd here. You guys are right about this

40:14

and I am wrong. One

40:16

last comment about something else. It

40:18

says Julia, it's quite possible that

40:21

the extra wife of the introvert

40:23

guy is not frustrated at having

40:25

to organize their entire social life,

40:27

but frustrated and very tired to

40:29

relationship extinction levels at being

40:31

the soul bearer of his mental health.

40:33

If she's the sole person he's ever

40:36

having conversations with, I can't imagine the

40:38

emotional mental load she's under.

40:40

Good point. All right. For more

40:42

listener comments and more of my

40:45

responses, check out struggle session, a

40:47

weekly bonus column exclusively for Magnum

40:49

Lovecast subscribers goes up every Thursday

40:51

at savage.love.

40:54

And now listener response calls.

40:57

Hey Dan, this is in response to your advice

41:00

to the dad who had the new Prince Albert

41:02

piercing and your response was

41:04

very Catholic. There's lots of families for whom nudity

41:06

is not really a big deal and it's not

41:08

like, Hey, I'm naked in your kid's face, but

41:10

you're just naked at times of the day and

41:12

you're not hiding your body from your child because

41:15

nudity is not that big of a deal. So I think

41:17

your advice about how to explain it to your dad's

41:20

kid was great. Just no big deal. It's a piercing just

41:22

like people get piercings in their ears, but

41:25

I wanted to add to this dad. You may

41:27

also want to have a conversation about the

41:29

existence of this piercing is private. Kids

41:31

love telling stuff to other people. I

41:34

learned about my cousin's down piercing from her daughter

41:36

when she was about five. So you may want

41:38

to have a conversation so that the

41:40

whole world doesn't know about your new genital

41:42

piercing. For the

41:44

woman whose husband isn't making you

41:46

friends, I think you really got

41:48

to let go of this. You're not going to

41:51

magically turn the sky into an extrovert. You

41:53

talk about wanting to see him through

41:55

somebody else's eyes, but if you take

41:57

somebody who has really bad social anxiety

42:00

and force them into a new friendship, you're

42:02

not going to see them in their best light.

42:04

You're probably just going to see him feeling awkward

42:06

and uncomfortable. So I do think

42:08

there's other ways to emulate that if you're

42:10

just wanting to see him

42:12

in a different light. Like what does he

42:15

enjoy doing? What does he feel like he's

42:17

really good at? And whatever that is, do

42:19

that activity with him so you can see

42:21

the confidence that it brings him. I think

42:24

you need to explore why you're feeling this

42:26

way a little bit more because if

42:28

it's that you just don't want to be

42:31

with somebody like that, if you feel the

42:33

need could be with somebody who's more extroverted

42:36

and him being an introvert is

42:38

a turnoff for you, then you got

42:40

to accept that that's coming from within

42:42

you. That's not something that he's doing

42:44

that he needs to or even can

42:46

change. Hi, this is a

42:48

response to the woman in her early 40s,

42:50

newly divorced, dating people and having

42:52

fun. And now she's dating a guy and

42:55

her friends are advising her to not break up with him,

42:57

but she thinks she wants to break up with him because

42:59

she doesn't want to have to have

43:01

a relationship progress maybe to the point of

43:03

cohabitation. And I wanted to share my own

43:05

experience, which is that I too was in

43:07

my early 40s, newly divorced, dating

43:09

people and having fun. And then I met somebody that

43:11

I fell in love with. And at some

43:14

point along the way, we decided to move in

43:17

together, which we did. And it was a

43:19

disaster. So we moved back out, but

43:21

we didn't break up. And we're still together

43:23

almost 16 years later. We still

43:26

consider each other to be partners. We love

43:28

each other very much. We get to spend

43:30

time together. But then we get to go

43:32

home to our own space and not have

43:34

anybody underfoot. We each raised children

43:36

and launched them. And we

43:38

still don't want to live together. It's not great

43:40

for the carbon footprint. It's not great for the

43:43

budget, but it's so great for the mental health.

43:45

So there's that model too. Good luck. And

43:49

we're going to leave it there. Got a

43:51

question for next week's Lovecast or something to

43:53

say about something I said on this week's

43:56

Lovecast. You can record your question or your

43:58

comment at savage.loveslash. Ask

44:00

Dan right now, all that

44:02

question or comment, brush in your mind, go

44:04

do it. Or you can use the voicemail

44:06

app on this phone and email your question

44:08

or comment to Q at savage.love. Or

44:11

give us a call, give us a voicemail, 206-302-2064.

44:17

And in hump news, the hump jury

44:19

met last week. We watched 200 submissions

44:21

for the hump 2024 film festival. And

44:23

I can now tell you that the

44:26

hump 2024 film festival is

44:29

going to be great. And you

44:31

can get tickets now at the

44:33

early bird discount at humpfilmfest.com for

44:36

the opening weekends in Seattle, San

44:38

Francisco and Portland and for the

44:40

hump spring tour in 2024 all

44:44

across the country. Go to humpfilmfest.com

44:46

right now to get those tickets for

44:48

yourself and for others

44:50

on your list. Hump Film

44:52

Fest tickets make great gifts.

44:54

Get them now, humpfilmfest.com. Follow

44:57

me on Instagram and threads at Dan

44:59

Savage. Follow me on blue sky at Dan

45:01

Savage. And you can still find

45:03

me sometimes on the bad

45:06

place at fake Dan Savage. Follow

45:08

Dr. Nicole Prowse on Twitter at

45:10

Nicole R. Prowse. Savage

45:12

Lovecast is produced every week. I'm Nancy Hertunian

45:14

and me and Nancy and the tech savvy

45:16

at RiskU who will all be back at

45:19

you next week with another installment of the

45:21

Savage Lovecast. Thank you for

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downloading. Get

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