0:00

Mrs Sno: You're listening to scheduling sin with me, snomilf.

0:04

Mr. Foxy: Good morning. Hope you had a great evening.

0:07

Um, this might sound a bit strange, but I just wondered how you would feel about mister

0:12

coming down and fucking your brains out. Mrs Sno: I have my spouse's blessing to go get my brains fucked out.

0:18

That's cool. Mr. Sno: Hello, listeners. When we were in the UK, we finally met in person a lovely couple called

0:24

Mister and Miss Foxy. Miss Foxy is one of our blog contributors.

0:28

They're an experienced lifestyle couple and shared with us that, like us, they're also

0:32

interested in expanding their dynamics by adding solo play.

0:35

We were lucky to catch up with Mister Foxy, who shared their experience with us.

0:39

There's a lot to learn here and what went well and what didn't.

0:42

Let's listen in. Let's start at the beginning with this.

0:45

Mrs Sno: The beginning. Mr. Sno: So let's.

0:48

Mr. Foxy: Start at the very beginning in the before.

0:51

Mr. Sno: Times. Mrs Sno: The before times. We talk about the before lifestyle times.

0:55

Mr. Sno: So we just did our last episode on expanding our dynamic and adding solo play.

1:01

Right. And you guys kind of did this a little bit um, to before us.

1:07

Mrs Sno: Paving the way. Thanks for that. Mr. Sno: Yeah. Right.

1:10

I mean, really, you gave us the idea. So Bravo.

1:13

Mr. Foxy: And take notes. Yeah. These are the holes not to fall into.

1:17

Mrs Sno: Right. But these are the holes to fall into.

1:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Foxy: Pick pick your holes carefully. Yeah.

1:23

Mrs Sno: That's that's a good life lesson. Really. Mr. Sno: So, so how did you guys.

1:27

Well, first of all, how did you decide to start doing any kind of solo play.

1:31

Mr. Foxy: Right. Okay. This this is fun and interesting. It's funny. Yeah. You again.

1:35

You were right. This is going to be amusing and funny and and stuff, so.

1:38

Right. Let's take cast your minds back to the before time.

1:43

Um. Mrs Sno: So sound effects.

1:46

Mr. Foxy: Have always a good time to introduce Scooby Doo to anything, isn't it?

1:50

Like. Um, so.

1:57

We for the most part, let's say for the last year to two years on our on our evolving

2:07

journey from, you know, when we started out and were, you know, from being or certainly

2:14

certainly in, in my, my dear Miss Fox's case, from a very scared, frightened newbie

2:21

to dipping toes and starting off on the soft swing path and gradually building up over

2:26

time. And we've always sort of this has always been a case of we're going to do this

2:31

together. You know, this is something this is a shared experience.

2:34

I'm there to hold a hand. Um, and, and, you know, to kind of put it in context, as we've said, as we'd explained to

2:42

you before, I'd been on the scene previously. So I'm, I'm supposed to be this, you know, zen ninja swinging guru, um, and, and sort of

2:52

allowing and assisting and aiding the beautiful Miss Foxy through this, this new,

2:57

joyful adventure. And we kind of did that for a period of time and built up into the, you know, the full

3:03

swap scenario and, and so on and so forth.

3:08

We then towards the end of last year, met with a couple who we who were probably one of

3:14

those, um, kind of Nirvana couples, you know, where all four.

3:21

Completely not on the same wavelength.

3:24

Everybody liked kind of each other.

3:26

And and there was no kind. Mrs Sno: Of so rare.

3:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Foxy: I mean, there's always like, somebody likes the other one more than the other one likes

3:33

the other one. Yeah. You know, and it's like, yeah, okay, we'll do this.

3:36

That's kind of cool. Um, but we found this couple and we, we kind of, we played with them a couple times.

3:43

We met them at a club. We'd been chatting to them a while prior to meeting the club to

3:47

kind of build up a bit of rapport. We met at the club, hit it off beautifully to the extent that we kind of commandeered

3:56

one of the, uh, one of the side beds that you will now be familiar with in in the

4:01

beautiful Liberty Elite. And, and we kind of commandeered that.

4:05

We stayed on there for like four hours.

4:07

Mrs Sno: Oh, wow. Mr. Foxy: It's like nobody else is getting on here.

4:10

This is ours. We're, you know, you're just gonna have to move along.

4:14

Yeah, we, you know, we're here.

4:16

And so that was kind of pretty cool. And then we thought, this is great.

4:20

You know, we set up a we'd had this group chat and we were sort of saying to each

4:25

other, okay, so what now. And, um, we would.

4:31

I mean, Miss Fox and I were chatting on the way home.

4:35

And, um, like, really weirdly at the blue, she kind of said, um.

4:41

So we talked about maybe meeting this couple at a hotel.

4:46

And she said, uh. So you know, with with this couple, how would you feel about separate room swapping?

4:56

Mr. Sno: So that was Kitty's idea. Mr. Foxy: Yeah, it's all her fault.

5:00

It's all her. Mr. Sno: Fault. Okay, okay. Mrs Sno: Yeah, yeah, okay. In a.

5:03

Mr. Foxy: Beautiful way. But this is, like, really bizarre because obviously, up to this point,

5:07

I've been kind of leading her along and and everything.

5:10

Okay, you know, we're doing this at the, at the, at the safe speed.

5:14

And how do you feel. Mrs Sno: How did you initially feel about like that that dynamic switch, you know, but when of.

5:21

Mr. Foxy: Course. Yeah. Of course. As soon as she asked that question.

5:24

Yeah, I did that sideways look and went.

5:28

No, this is a trap, isn't it? This is a. Mrs Sno: Trap. Created a monster.

5:32

Mr. Foxy: How do you feel about separate room swap?

5:34

I'm like you just waiting for me to say, yeah, that's cool.

5:38

And then say, why do you want to do that? Mrs Sno: It's a trap.

5:42

Mr. Foxy: So I'm looking at it going, is that a real question?

5:45

Is why do you want to know that? Well, I just thought it'd be kind of cool, you know?

5:49

And so I went. Well, yeah, I guess that could be fun.

5:54

And then she kind of went. How would you feel if we made that an overnight?

6:02

And I'm like, is this another trick question?

6:06

Mrs Sno: Have you had you ever done things like that in the past?

6:09

No. Oh okay. Okay. Mr. Foxy: No no no.

6:12

Mrs Sno: So this is all new okay. Mr. Foxy: We'd only ever played same room.

6:16

Mrs Sno: I guess I meant in your your your swinging past.

6:20

Mr. Foxy: In my, um, younger years in my in my, in my past.

6:24

Um, I'd done, I had done separate room.

6:27

My dad dynamic in my previous relation had been very, very, very different.

6:31

Our relationship was very different. So I had I had kind of played solo myself previously.

6:39

Um, but within within this relationship and our dynamic this was completely these were,

6:46

these were like our hard nos. Mrs Sno: Right, right.

6:48

Mr. Foxy: You know. Yeah. So it was like, okay.

6:52

But it's like, you know, we all kind of just suddenly thought this, this kind of works

6:56

really well. We all get on and this is pretty hot and it all kind of fall.

7:01

Um. And when we got home.

7:05

It sort of was brought up in the chat that we had and they went, wow, that's really

7:10

weird because we were kind of wondering the same thing.

7:12

We were going to ask you how you felt about that.

7:15

What was your again? It was kind of like, oh, this is all kind of serendipitous.

7:19

Mr. Sno: So aside from the aside from the, uh, you know, it's a trap kind of feeling.

7:24

What was your initial reaction when she said to you, let's try an overnight thing?

7:29

What what went through your mind first?

7:31

Mr. Foxy: Uh, to be honest, I'm. I think it was a pretty, pretty exciting, um, prospect, I think because because

7:42

as a group of four people, we got on really well, and, and it was, you know, like you

7:47

say, when you suddenly find that, that, that kind of nirvana, couple things feel easier.

7:53

It didn't seem as risky or.

7:56

Mrs Sno: Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. Mr. Foxy: A case of, well, this is going to be tricky because you don't like them as much as I like

8:02

them. You know, it was kind of everybody was on the, on the same, the same page.

8:07

Um, so it was like, oh, this, this, this could be kind of fun.

8:10

This would be interesting. So. And, you know, we kind of it didn't at that point.

8:16

All of this, it didn't cause any ructions.

8:19

The facts, the fact that it had previously been a hard no.

8:24

Connor didn't really matter in the moment because. Because it was like just everything kind of felt right.

8:29

You know, nobody was pushing an agenda. It just kind of it just kind of evolved.

8:35

It just it appeared and and, you know, when the words came out, nobody's head fell off.

8:40

So that's always a good indication.

8:44

Um, um, but we had a quite a while to wait, I think, because with the other couple, they

8:49

had an awful lot of, um, uh, life commitments, which I think are fairly

8:55

familiar with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. But they've got like three kids, two businesses, yada, yada, yada.

9:03

So we were kind of like going, okay, so this is really cool.

9:06

When are we going to do this? And it was like, check the diary, check the diary.

9:08

Mrs Sno: Seven months from next Thursday. Mr. Sno: Yeah, right.

9:11

Mr. Foxy: It was it was like, yeah, I think this was this was November, early November.

9:15

And we, we settled on the date of December the 27th.

9:20

Um, you know, because it was like between Christmas they'd got we got Christmas out of

9:24

the way, we got family out of the way. And there's that, that dead space, right?

9:28

Yeah. Right. And it's like, right, we could.

9:30

Great. We'll do that. So we kind of line that up and we had like this 4 or 5 week build up, which was kind of

9:37

insane. Mhm. Um, and and it was fine.

9:41

You know, we showed up, we did the meet, we, we met at the hotel.

9:46

It was kind of like it was, it was interesting because we did um, we were in one

9:51

room. They were in the other. We'd got there earlier than they had.

9:55

Uh, they were kind of getting ready. And then just before dinner, we all came out and met on the landing.

10:01

It was interesting. We had these two rooms on this one landing in an annex building, so

10:05

there was nobody else there anyway. So we kind of all came out onto the shared landing.

10:11

The girls kind of swapped their overnight bags into the opposite room, and then we went

10:17

off to dinner together at the hotel, but with each other's partner.

10:22

Right. As of for. But kind of with each other's partners.

10:27

So we went in and so the people in the hotel kind of assumed that our not partners were

10:32

our partners. And we sat on a table of four, had dinner and were chatting, laughing, and

10:39

then went back to our respective rooms.

10:41

And then that was pretty much it until until breakfast.

10:44

Originally the plan was we would we would meet back at breakfast, but at separate

10:49

tables, as in, you know, with each other's couples at completely separate tables.

10:53

So you kind of looking over going, I really want to ask you some questions, but I can't

10:57

because we're at different tables. Mr. Sno: So so let me ask you about this part.

11:00

So part of our conversation about shifting our dynamic to increase to adding solo play

11:07

adds a certain element of what you're talking about here with it kind of

11:11

transitions a little bit from just a sexual experience to adding a dating experience.

11:20

Right. Because, you know, in the scenario you just talked about, you are with, you

11:23

know, the other guy's wife and vice versa.

11:26

And you guys are you're kind of having a date in full view of your partner.

11:32

But there's there's that, there's that.

11:36

That date element to it. Right. So this is this is kind of for our journey.

11:39

This is kind of where we're we're coming from because up until recently it's been a

11:44

very sexual thing for it's very physical. It's very.

11:47

Mrs Sno: Physical. There's not the level of emotional intimacy involved.

11:51

Mr. Foxy: Because that kind of feels safe, doesn't it? It's like, hey, it's just it's just safe.

11:55

Mrs Sno: It's just sex, right? Mr. Sno: Absolutely, exactly.

11:57

And in the very beginning, we like, I think, almost all newbies now that I've talked to a

12:02

lot of newbies, have said things like, we don't even want to know their names.

12:05

Like, we don't want to make friends with people. We just want to, you know, purely, you know, very arm's length.

12:12

Right? Mr. Foxy: So we're like, wear a mask or a balaclava.

12:15

That would be even better. Mr. Sno: Exactly, exactly. If you could just be a body.

12:18

Right. Um, be a whole. Mrs Sno: Pick your holes carefully.

12:21

Mr. Sno: And God, it feels awful to objectify people in that way, but that's kind of how we

12:26

started. Well, but I. Mrs Sno: Think that's what we thought it was.

12:28

That's what we thought it was, you know, coming in not knowing.

12:31

Mr. Sno: Right. So now we're coming into this section where we're talking about adding solo play.

12:34

And I don't know if you heard the last episode, but part of the reason we're

12:37

interested in doing that is I am learning about myself that I am sure much more

12:42

demisexual than I thought. Right. Um, I kind of require a connection with a person before it works for me to play

12:50

with them. Now, Mrs.

12:53

Snow is not that same way. She's a little bit different, but for me, I kind of need that.

12:58

And so this is. Mr. Foxy: Like, this is like Miss Foxy.

13:01

That's that's how she sees it. And I'm very much like Mrs.

13:05

Snow. Yeah. Mr. Sno: So yeah. What we're what we're coming to here is like, we're kind of looking at me going

13:10

out with another woman on a date, similar to what you're talking about here.

13:14

Where? Where I've been kind of figuring it out for myself is where do where do you blur

13:19

that line between. Right, this is just sex.

13:22

This is, you know, an activity, right?

13:26

Well, now I'm kind of having an emotional relationship with another person to a certain

13:30

degree. Mrs Sno: You're requiring that. Mr. Sno: Yeah, right. So when you guys are at dinner together on opposite tables within full view

13:37

of each other, what was that like? What was going through your mind about the conversation that Mrs.

13:42

Foxy might be having with her guy?

13:44

You know, were you distracted? What what was that like at dinner?

13:49

Mr. Foxy: It was fine because all four of us were at the same table.

13:51

Mrs Sno: Okay. Mr. Sno: Oh, okay. Mr. Foxy: We could hear the the idea was at breakfast, it was going to be different.

13:56

Mhm. But we didn't get that opportunity because at dinner they said you know, do you

14:02

want to book for breakfast. Um and would you like breakfast.

14:07

Breakfast in bed. Ah okay. And the and the girls kind of went oh breakfast in bed.

14:11

That would be really cool. So we, we ended up. Losing that opportunity I see of sitting on on different tables.

14:18

And we ended up having I mean, it was kind of cool. We had breakfast brought in on a big silver platter, but we didn't get the opportunity to

14:25

do that observation at a distance after the fact.

14:30

Um. But, um.

14:35

I think because we were we were doing this simultaneously.

14:40

It was. It was kind of easier.

14:43

Um, it was it again, it was a shared experience.

14:47

Now, just to kind of take you a step further forwards.

14:52

Um, we ended up so we ended up that was kind of still couples play, but separated.

14:59

Um. So we ended up sort of New Year's Eve, and we went back to the club and a and a

15:06

couple who we knew. Um, we'd met them before, never played with them.

15:12

Um, they were at the same event, staying at the same hotel, and we'd spent time chatting

15:16

to them at the club. Um. And then.

15:22

After the event, we'd gone back to the hotel, slept, and then woke up on New Year's

15:27

Day in the morning. And Miss Foxy kind of picked up a phone and had a look, and there was a message, you

15:35

know, in our swinging app, and she kind of suddenly was trying to wake me up like, wake

15:40

up, wake up, wake up. I've got this message.

15:43

I'm like, what, what what what? So she went, look, look, look.

15:46

And she passed me the phone. It had this message and it was from the female of the couple.

15:50

And she basically just sort of said, good morning, hope you had a great evening.

15:56

Um, this might sound a bit strange, but I just wondered how you would feel about Mr.

16:01

coming down and fucking your brains out. You know, so she's like going like, messages.

16:06

Mrs Sno: That we receive in this context are just, they're just fun.

16:09

Like, where else can you have a, like a, like a you wake up to a message that says

16:15

that you're like, okay, instead of like some.

16:18

Mr. Foxy: Other woman just going, hey, I'm going to send you my man.

16:20

I'm going to send. Mrs Sno: You my man. He's going to fuck your brains out. Like, that's cool. Like.

16:25

Mr. Foxy: And she's like. Mr. Sno: Anyone who might be listening. I'm open to such a message in either direction.

16:30

Mr. Foxy: Yeah. Volunteers forward.

16:33

Mrs Sno: Yeah, I volunteer. Um. Mr. Foxy: But she was like, you know, this was like a moment.

16:38

She's like, I could tell, you know, she's like, oh, I kind of want to do this, but I

16:41

don't want to do it because that's not what we do. And what are you going to do?

16:44

And and I can't I can't possibly do this, can I?

16:48

Mrs Sno: Yeah, right. Mr. Foxy: It's like no, she's going no, no, no, I'll just tell him no.

16:52

And I went whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. So we had a very rapid conversation and I said, look, hey.

17:00

That's what we're. That's what we're here for. This is kind of, you know, we're here to

17:03

have fun. It's an opportunity. It's cropped up. Um, as as, you know, the delicious Deb's always sort of says, you

17:11

know, you should try everything once.

17:13

If you don't like it, try the second time and you still don't like it, and maybe don't

17:18

do it, maybe don't do it. So it was like, hey, you know, we knew this couple.

17:23

It wasn't like something completely random.

17:25

And it was like. Look. Just do it.

17:29

I mean, and I explain for why in a second.

17:33

But so she said, well, what are you going to do?

17:36

I said, well, I'll go and have breakfast, which is still kind of weird.

17:40

I'm like, yeah, just tell him you. So. But of course, because it was like getting on and we had like check out in a

17:47

couple of hours and it suddenly she's saying to them, yeah, send him down.

17:52

And I'm thinking. Crap. I'm still in bed.

17:55

I literally like five minutes, jumped out of bed, washed toothbrush, throw some clothes on

18:01

out the door, you know, and just disappeared off and went in at breakfast on my own and,

18:07

you know, waiting for the message from her to say, you know, all done, come back, all

18:14

done, you know, and I'm spent.

18:17

Right. You know, so, so yeah, that kind of went ahead.

18:22

Um, so. Mr. Sno: So you're sitting down there at breakfast.

18:25

This is going on upstairs?

18:27

Yeah. What's going through your head at that time?

18:31

Um, what was that like for you? Mrs Sno: You're.

18:35

Mr. Sno: I can imagine what it was like for her, and that's kind of fun to do.

18:37

But what was it like for you? Mr. Foxy: It. I'd be honest, it was very strange, um, because it was completely out with our

18:47

experience. Um, I was surprised at how.

18:53

Um. I don't know calm I was, I wasn't I wasn't feeling overly nervous or I

19:02

wasn't feeling excited. It's not really part of our dynamic.

19:06

Um, I feel like. Mrs Sno: I would feel. Mr. Foxy: Wonder whether or not it would cause me some concern, but I was, I was I was just trying

19:12

to focus on my breakfast, you know. Mrs Sno: A big old sausage.

19:16

But I have a distraction. But, you know, can.

19:18

Mr. Foxy: I have another sausage? Mrs Sno: Right. I it's interesting because.

19:23

You know, when I think about him going on a date or playing with this other female that

19:31

were and again. I'm positive that the majority of why I feel this way is because we know her, and we have

19:37

a relationship with both of them, you know what I mean? Like, it's not just some random person, but I feel like I would feel similar.

19:43

Like I'm not nervous or anxious or maybe a little excited for you, but I feel like you'd

19:49

be I would feel almost it. I feel like I would feel very indifferent.

19:54

I kind of like what you're describing, I don't you?

19:57

Mr. Foxy: You mean like twins? Mr. Sno: Well, and it is.

20:01

Yeah, but it's like. Mr. Foxy: But it's like. It's the fact that we knew the couple.

20:06

Yeah. So we were comfortable and and you know, we've played with unicorns before and

20:11

she's fairly okay with me playing with them because you know we've gotten to know them

20:15

and we're comfortable around them. And and that doesn't seem to be anything threatening.

20:19

Well there's no. Mrs Sno: Threatening. That's that's what it is. There's no threat there.

20:21

Mr. Foxy: So but then this is where things then progress.

20:25

So I'm giving this is all the build up.

20:27

Sure. After that when we're driving home, we kind of then said, okay, so we've we've done

20:34

the hotel thing, the, you know, with the couple, we've done this, you know, single

20:39

play, you've played with another guy.

20:42

And a lot of this had come about because we'd had some not very good experiences

20:48

towards the latter part of the previous year, where we'd met with a couple, and for

20:56

whatever reason, the guys just just didn't cut the mustard.

21:01

Um, you know, they were either generally fairly lackluster, some just simply couldn't

21:08

get it up, or they weren't actually very good at what they did.

21:10

And the upshot of all of this was she was getting the raw end of the deal.

21:15

Yeah. You know, she'd end up having to watch me play with another woman and really not

21:20

getting a lot out of her encounter. Mrs Sno: I feel like that's exactly kind of what similarly, like, you were kind of watching me

21:27

having a good time and enjoying myself when you weren't having that same experience.

21:32

Yeah. Mr. Sno: And it wasn't. It was for different reasons.

21:35

It wasn't because the women were lackluster or anything.

21:37

Well, right. But I had more to do with the fact that I just didn't have that connection

21:42

with them yet. Mrs Sno: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Sno: I do have a quick question though, and I want to pause you for a second on this, on the

21:48

deal where, you know, where you went to have breakfast. And she played after.

21:51

One thing I wanted to ask you about that was so I wrote this story that's on our blog.

21:57

It's kind of a hot wifing story.

22:00

And she read it and I asked her what she thought about it.

22:03

And one of the things that she said that caught her, that appealed to her right was in

22:10

the story. Um, the woman's name is Jeanette.

22:14

Goes upstairs with the the guy while the other guy stays at the hotel bar.

22:21

Yeah. And in the story, when they walk into the room and they're like, getting things

22:25

going, she has this moment where she has this kind of like, pause, like a guilty

22:31

pause, and then continues on with it.

22:34

And I'm curious if, after the fact, with all of this, what was Miss Fox's.

22:42

What did she I mean, other than it was great sex or whatever.

22:44

Like what? What did she think of it?

22:48

Mr. Foxy: Um. Like, I think it was a case of I mean, there was there was immense gratitude because

22:57

she, you know, she knows that it was a big thing for me.

23:02

Right. To be okay with her doing that.

23:05

So the fact that she'd been with a guy had a good experience.

23:10

Um, and that I'd been okay with it was kind of a real big thing for her.

23:15

She didn't. It wasn't a case of, wow, I feel really guilty.

23:19

It's like she. Like I mentioned earlier on, I used that idea about nobody's head falling

23:23

off. I mean, that's something that that she uses a lot is like, you know, going through

23:28

this process she was worried about, you know, this is a bad thing and you should feel

23:32

guilty and it's very naughty. And it's like, I've done these things.

23:36

And I woke up in the morning and my head didn't fall off, you know, that was so it's

23:41

like, hey, this is not that bad.

23:43

You know, it's the world hasn't exploded.

23:47

You know, just because I've done something that up till now I've been told I shouldn't

23:51

be doing. Um, so she, you know, she didn't didn't feel bad as a result of it having

23:57

happened. She was immensely grateful that that I'd been, um, okay with the idea of her

24:04

doing that and saying, you go ahead, enjoy yourself.

24:08

Right. It was just she was like, I can't tell you.

24:12

How much you know. I feel gratitude towards you.

24:16

I thank you for allowing me to have to do this. So she enjoyed the experience.

24:20

She was immensely grateful to me for having said yes.

24:23

Just go for it, you know? So there wasn't any kind.

24:26

Mrs Sno: Of it takes some of that guilt away, you know, like you're, you know, you're giving

24:30

permission, right? You're saying, go have fun, enjoy yourself.

24:34

And and I can appreciate from the from, you know, from that perspective of like, wow,

24:39

that's pretty amazing. Like I have my spouse's blessing to go get my brains fucked out.

24:44

That's cool. Mr. Sno: Well, yeah. Exactly.

24:47

And do you think this was a major step for her and her lifestyle journey?

24:51

Mr. Foxy: Very much so. Mrs Sno: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: It was certainly one of.

24:55

And if you know, if I can, I mean, I'm more than happy for you to drag us back to some of

24:59

these. If you've got anything you want to ask. But this is leading up to the conversation afterwards where we were.

25:04

Okay. So we've had these experiences.

25:07

What does this mean for us in 2024?

25:10

What what is our swinging experience going to be going to this next year?

25:15

Um, and and we would that's when we kind of suddenly said, look, how do you feel about us

25:22

doing some separate play?

25:25

So this wasn't planned. Um, it came out of the blue.

25:30

It had obviously worked. I hadn't felt bad about it.

25:33

She hadn't felt bad about it. Um, and so we kind of said, look, is this is this something that we, we want to do?

25:40

Because I think when you get into this, you think we've got to do this as a couple,

25:43

because if we don't, we're doing it for all the wrong reasons.

25:46

Right? You know, we're now kind of comfortable enough, having done it for a

25:49

while, to know that if we play with somebody else, it isn't because there's anything wrong

25:55

with with our relationship. Right. Mr. Sno: We're not replacing anything.

25:58

Yeah. Mr. Foxy: You know, so you develop this increasing sense of confidence and, and, and comfort

26:05

about who you are and what you're doing.

26:08

Mhm. So we then decide, okay, well we'll we'll look at this single play dynamic.

26:16

And each of us set up a single profile on the swinging app that we use.

26:26

Now this is where things started to, to to change a little bit because and I'm sure it's

26:33

probably the same over there. On my on my account, on my profile.

26:39

I set it all up. And promptly, promptly was welcomed with.

26:47

You know, crickets, you know, tumbleweed and crickets.

26:54

You know, whereas by contrast.

26:56

Right. Was like, boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop.

27:00

You know, it was, you know, dick pic central.

27:04

Yeah. It was, you know, I mean, I'm not exaggerating when I say thousands of people

27:10

descending on her profile.

27:13

Yeah, with hundreds of messages.

27:16

I mean, some of them are beyond belief.

27:18

You know, there's a real a real broad spectrum of of just grossness through to

27:24

some, you know, some quite pleasant individuals. Mrs Sno: That probably is an episode of itself.

27:28

We've had a few of those. Mr. Sno: We've had some. Mrs Sno: Ourselves. Crazy.

27:31

Yeah. Intro messages like it's pretty insane.

27:34

Mr. Foxy: So and and you know, for confidence wise for her.

27:39

And this was one of the reasons we wanted to do it or I kind of felt okay with doing it

27:42

was to help enhance her confidence.

27:45

Her confidence had been knocked because of the experience she'd had with some of the

27:49

guys in the in the couples that we'd met.

27:51

Um, plus. As you'd said, to bring it back on to what you were saying.

27:57

With the couple that we'd met in hotel, there'd been this 4 or 5 week build up where

28:04

we had been inboxing one another, firstly as a group and then individually, and she'd

28:10

really got off on that. Black flirtation.

28:14

Sure. Yeah. That connection that and and kind of realized that that made the whole

28:19

experience took it to another level. Yeah. So she kind of wanted to bring that into this, this single guy element.

28:27

So she was getting messages coming in and she's like answering to loads of now a lot

28:32

of, a lot of single women due to their experience, just kind of lock everything down

28:36

or they'll only engage with the few people or, you know, the barriers are up from the

28:41

get go because this was all kind of fresh and new and exciting.

28:44

Yeah, yeah. She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

28:46

Mr. Sno: I'll take it all. Mr. Foxy: Well guys bring me the messaging.

28:51

She's messaging. Let's get. Mrs Sno: Him up.

28:53

Mr. Foxy: Really hot and steamy and she's sending pictures and getting pictures back.

28:58

Yeah. Yeah it's kind of cool.

29:00

Yeah. And she's, you know, loving the attention, which.

29:03

Hey, why wouldn't you?

29:05

Of course you would. Um.

29:09

But I think, you know, I mean, from my perspective, I think, you know, there was a

29:12

degree of naivety there.

29:14

It was just. Yeah, the gates were wide open and.

29:19

Yeah, bring the Trojan horse in, you know, everything just.

29:22

Mr. Sno: And how did you feel about that? I mean, were you put off by that?

29:26

Mr. Foxy: Massively, yeah. This is this is where I think the wheels started falling off because

29:31

I'm over here living in, you know, Antarctica, you know, there's just.

29:37

And it's like. And she's like, yeah, yeah.

29:40

Well, you know, the, you know, the app's not very good.

29:42

Hey, why don't you sign up? You just sign up onto Tinder, you might be able to find somebody locally on on Tinder.

29:47

Oh, now she's. Mr. Sno: Giving you pity advice. Mr. Foxy: No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:50

But then all of a sudden, I've got an account on Tinder, I've got an account on UK

29:56

Cupid, I've got an account on, um, like Facebook Dating.

30:03

So now I'm getting absolutely nowhere on about seven different platforms.

30:08

Mrs Sno: Oh, well. And I think the other piece of that and I will say speaking to my, my vanilla

30:13

friends that are on dating sites, you know, obviously they're not they're not in the

30:18

lifestyle. They're not kind of into dating people that are married.

30:21

Right. They're trying to find their forever person. So I think when they see like on Tinder or, you know, those other apps that when they

30:29

see, oh, I'm married, but my wife says, you know, like they're immediately like, nope,

30:33

nope. Mr. Sno: I think a lot of women don't even believe it.

30:35

Mrs Sno: Yeah. They don't. You're right. They probably don't. But, you know, they.

30:37

Mr. Sno: See on a. Mrs Sno: Different like married.

30:39

Mr. Sno: With permission and they're like, yeah. Mrs Sno: Okay. Yeah.

30:42

Mr. Foxy: Just I was looking for the women that don't care. Yeah.

30:45

Mr. Sno: Well yeah yeah, yeah. Mr. Foxy: But it's but you.

30:47

Mrs Sno: Know what I mean. But those that you're fishing in the wrong pond, do you know what I

30:51

mean? Like it's not. Mr. Foxy: Yeah, but even then I think on, on, on Facebook dating they incorporate um.

30:58

Oh ethical non-monogamy and poly.

31:02

Yeah. There are a lot of. I didn't know Facebook had a dating and you can tick the boxes.

31:06

Interesting. So they do cater for that on there.

31:08

But I it still made no difference.

31:11

Mr. Sno: So so I could see how that would be a big confidence shot.

31:14

Yeah it would be for me. So we would be like I'm.

31:19

Mr. Foxy: The guy who's done all the stuff and he's got all the experience.

31:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real comfortable with with her being well, I'm a bit nervous about this

31:28

and I don't feel very good. And suddenly bang, it went the other way round.

31:31

My confidence just plummeted.

31:34

Yeah. And hers was going through the roof. Right. Yeah. And and she's, she's like going off at a million miles an hour.

31:41

Yeah. I'm going wait for me, you know, and I, I totally get it.

31:49

I mean, she, she, you know, she, she hates me telling this story because after we kind

31:53

of discussed all this, she's like, but I sound like a real.

31:58

A real horrible person. She's not. No not not.

32:01

Mrs Sno: No definitely not. I don't see her that way at all.

32:05

Mr. Foxy: But she's kind of got concerned that, you know, because suddenly she, she was getting

32:10

all this attention and kind of, uh, and enjoying it.

32:14

It kind of felt like she forgot about me.

32:16

Yeah, she absolutely didn't. Mrs Sno: But I think it's it's understanding the context of it all, you know what I mean?

32:22

Like, I think from an outsider not understanding all the dynamics, I could see

32:25

how I would see that way. But I, I'm willing to bet that most people that are engaged in the lifestyle and

32:30

understanding what it's all about, don't think that.

32:35

Mr. Foxy: No no no no. Yeah. But so.

32:39

And so off the back of that we did arrange and I mean, I, I tell a little bit of a, you

32:46

know, a little bit of a white lie there. I got 1 or 2 hits.

32:50

Um, so I, you know, I managed to we things started off.

32:54

We both kind of found two people that we got on with.

32:57

So we arranged a couple of meets and such like. Mrs Sno: Individual.

33:00

Mr. Foxy: Meets individual. Yeah. Okay. Mine were kind of like put back in the distance.

33:06

They were later dates. So at the same time as she was looking to meet some of these single guys, she kind of

33:13

said, hey, why don't you meet and play with some of the unicorns that we've met, you

33:18

know, which was was was great, but we'd always played with them as a threesome.

33:23

But she said, hey, why don't you go off and play with them solo?

33:27

So I'm like, okay, that's cool. Um. But as you said earlier on, the difference there was.

33:34

She knows that. Mrs Sno: She knows them. Absolutely.

33:37

Mr. Foxy: And so there was no kind of there was no concern.

33:40

And it was like. Mrs Sno: There's no pushing that boundary.

33:42

Mr. Foxy: Yeah, I trust them and that's fine.

33:45

But it seemed like a good idea because, hey, I'd be having a good time and and I'd be

33:50

busy. Um. But. It was weird.

33:55

I found it really difficult because she's meeting and we didn't know how to do this.

34:01

This was all new to me. It was outside of my experience, so I hadn't even met or spoken to

34:09

any of these guys. Yeah, she's going and meeting these guys.

34:13

Mr. Sno: Did you want to I mean, what what kind of relationship?

34:16

Like when you guys talked about doing this, did you guys talk about, you know, I want to

34:21

talk to the people you're talking to if you get serious.

34:25

Mr. Foxy: No. Because again, this was all completely I didn't know how I didn't know how this this

34:30

kind of world works, right? Do I do that? Do I not do that?

34:33

Do I want to do that? Yeah. And I'm thinking this is going to seem awfully weird for me to go and meet a guy and

34:38

talk to him about paying your wife this kind of thing.

34:41

You know, it was. So I'm like, this kind of kind of feels a bit awkward.

34:46

Hey, you chat to them, you know?

34:48

Let me know how it's going on. I'll have a look at the profile and I'll see if there are any any red flags that come up

34:55

for me. Mhm. Um, and to be, you know, to be fair, she did a lot of due diligence and she'd chat to

35:01

these guys and spoke to them for a while and, and these, the first couple of guys

35:06

were, they were I mean to be fair, top quality guys, these are guys that have been

35:11

on the scene for a long while. They know how it works.

35:14

They understand dynamics. These are.

35:18

Um, swinging world.

35:22

Affiliates. You know, they know how it works.

35:24

Mrs Sno: They've been certified by the Swingers Association. Mr. Foxy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These are not guys who were just.

35:30

Yeah. You know. Yeah. As you know, when you came over and visited, we talk about the wanking dead.

35:35

You know, they're not all of the wanking dead who have just transferred, you know,

35:39

transferred from Tinder and are just showing up to to have as many women as they can

35:43

without understanding any of the concepts.

35:45

So these guys got it. So I'm like, okay, that's that's fine.

35:49

That makes me feel a bit better. Um. But it was.

35:55

There were a couple of things that happened. So. On.

35:58

On the first first meet, she went on, I thought it was going to be a social.

36:05

Mr. Sno: Okay. Mr. Foxy: Um, but just kind of like on the day we were chatting and I kind of went.

36:11

So hang on a minute. This you're going to meet them.

36:14

Is is this just a social or are you planning something more than this.

36:19

And she went, oh, well, you know, we kind of had a chat.

36:23

Um, and first of all. He said, look, what do you want to do?

36:28

You know, I can. I can take you for a drive in my car, or we can go for a drink.

36:31

And I went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It can take you for a drive in his car, right?

36:36

Like, where's he taking you? Like, yeah. Yeah, nowhere.

36:38

That would be a. Mr. Sno: Little weird for me, too. Mr. Foxy: So I'm going. Well, I'm not too sure about this, right?

36:43

You know, go meet him for a drink.

36:46

That would be cool. And then it kind of went from going and meeting for a drink to.

36:50

Well, I was thinking that, you know, we might go and meet for a drink and then we

36:54

might kind of fool around in his car a bit. I'm like, it's okay.

36:58

So what do you mean about fooling around in his car a bit? And this is a guy I don't know I haven't met.

37:02

Et cetera. Et cetera. You haven't even met him yet.

37:04

This is so. It was like kind of really weird because I'm going I these pages aren't in my book.

37:11

I have got this, this, this annex to it.

37:15

Mrs Sno: Yet this chapter has not been written. Mr. Foxy: I'm thinking right, so.

37:18

And I don't want to be I don't want to come across as the oh, don't do this, don't do

37:23

that. I want to be in control kind of a guy, because she's supposed to be spreading her

37:28

wings and enjoying herself. She doesn't need me stomping all over the place thinking it.

37:32

Oh, that's. Mrs Sno: A tough that's a tough balance because.

37:34

Mr. Foxy: But I'm trying to figure out. But how is this going to make me feel and what's.

37:38

Okay, well, it's. Mrs Sno: It's you being you trying to be supportive in her evolution in this and her exploration.

37:44

But also you have to be true to yourself, right?

37:47

And you have to and that's a tough oh yeah that's tough.

37:50

Mr. Foxy: Yeah. Yeah I'm, I'm, I'm, I am like you know if you've got if you peel, peel me back like

37:57

stamped Alpha. You know I've got Alpha all over me.

37:59

Mrs Sno: Right, right. Mr. Foxy: I am like the Uber protector.

38:03

Sure. So when we're swinging together, it's cool because I'm there.

38:07

Because you're there. Absolutely. Yeah. But I'm not.

38:10

I'm not going to be there. And you don't even know. Mrs Sno: The person who's.

38:12

Mr. Foxy: Protecting you. What? What if it all goes wrong? Yeah. You know, so that was kind of where I was coming from.

38:18

Mrs Sno: It's really cool to hear that.

38:21

It's it's not about. You having sex with somebody else?

38:25

It's the protective piece. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

38:28

Like, it's not that I'm jealous that you're with somebody else.

38:32

It's. I am worried about it.

38:34

And that to me, it just really emphasizes that it comes from such a a genuine

38:39

connective place. Yes. You know what I mean?

38:42

Like, that's that's really kind of cool to hear. But, you know.

38:44

Mr. Foxy: It does bring up all of that conflict that you were talking.

38:46

Mrs Sno: Yeah. Mr. Sno: But where it also comes from and, and I don't I think you're this way, but I, I'm not sure

38:51

I think I know I would be I have I don't consider myself a controlling person.

38:57

But in the context of our lifestyle journey, I have had all the control in the sense that

39:03

I'm the one who kind of drives, right?

39:06

You know what I mean? I, I've, I've not by not by any sort of argument, but I've always

39:12

owned the gas pedal and the brakes. Yeah. Okay.

39:15

Yeah. And in the scenario that you're describing, I understand completely the idea

39:19

that you want to be protective of her.

39:21

But there's also the element of you are not therefore able to be protective of you.

39:26

Yeah. You know, she's going to go out on her own.

39:30

And that's the whole purpose of this concept. But, you know, in a normal environment where you guys are swinging and everything, if you

39:37

yourself get uncomfortable with something, for whatever reason, you're right there to

39:42

say, ah, let's pump the brakes.

39:44

And, and so we've had. Mr. Foxy: We've had issues like that in the past.

39:48

And, you know, to the point where I think I talked, we spoke before we ended up, um, we

39:54

had an issue where we played with a couple and she felt really uncomfortable but didn't,

39:58

didn't know how to approach me.

40:00

And we discussed it afterwards. And she bought, um, an air tag.

40:06

Yeah. And and so basically with her, uh, Apple phone or the phones are available, um,

40:14

you know, I had this tag on a wristband, so if she felt uncomfortable or something I was

40:19

doing, she'd. I mean, she had, like, uh, an Apple Watch as well, and she could just press

40:23

something on there and the air tag on me would, would vibrate and buzz.

40:28

Mr. Sno: That's cool. Mr. Foxy: Yeah. Mr. Sno: So if that happened, I knew.

40:32

Mr. Foxy: That she was uncomfortable about something. And I can go off and say, right, go find her.

40:38

Is everything okay? Right. What can we do?

40:40

Whatever. That's not available in this situation.

40:45

Yeah, right. You know, to the point.

40:48

To the point that one once I'd kind of we'd kind of ebbed and flowed with how this was

40:52

going to go. And, and I, you know, the one thing I sort of said, right, okay, you can go and meet

40:56

him, you can play around, but I don't want you to fuck him in the car.

40:59

Yeah. You know, and I said, look, when you get there, you know, by all means.

41:06

You know, you'll have that introductory chat. You'll get a feel for how things are going.

41:11

I said, once that's happened, make your excuses, go to the bathroom or whatever it is

41:16

and just send me a send me a text and say, I'm here.

41:19

It's fine. Everything's cool. Mr. Sno: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

41:22

Mr. Foxy: So, like, I'm not going to ask you to check in every 20 minutes, right, right, right.

41:26

But just just send me that message.

41:28

Mr. Sno: Little safety check in. Mrs Sno: Sure. Mr. Foxy: Anyway, it got to like 1030 at night and I've had nothing.

41:37

I'm like, oh man, I'm thinking, do I get in the car?

41:40

Do I know where they are? Do I drive down there? And anyway, so I then went sent a message.

41:48

Everything okay. Question mark. Right? Mr. Sno: Right. Yeah, yeah.

41:51

Mr. Foxy: And then I got the oh yeah, it's fine.

41:53

And I'm like, okay now, okay. Now I'm cool. Now I can now I can relax.

41:56

Well now you can. Mrs Sno: Yeah. Breathe. Sure, sure. Mr. Foxy: Um, so there's all those weird little intricacies that come in.

42:03

Mr. Sno: Well, and then it's a really important reminder to follow the rules that you set.

42:09

Between a couple, right? Mr. Foxy: Because she just got distracted.

42:12

Mr. Sno: Right. And it's easy to forget some of those little things.

42:14

I'm bad for that because I'll get in the moment of whatever it is I'm doing, and I'll

42:18

forget to text somebody or text somebody back or whatever.

42:21

But it's a that's a really important point for people to remember.

42:25

Like if you make rules, even if they're little ones, you have to remember them.

42:29

Right. Mr. Foxy: Absolutely. You know, nobody's head fell off, but it did get a little bit wobbly for a

42:36

while. Yeah, yeah. You know. So that kind of happened.

42:40

That was okay. We then had a second arrangement.

42:44

Uh, and I was heading off to go and meet somebody, uh, again, one of our unicorn

42:48

friends and I went to go and stay at a hotel because she lives way, way, way away.

42:52

And we arranged to meet midpoint and stay at the hotel.

42:56

So again, we thought, we're cool with this. We've done an overnight stay in a hotel.

42:59

This will be fine. Mrs Sno: Um. Mr. Foxy: So she then said, right, well, I'm going to go and meet this other guy.

43:05

And because of where we live, that's in the middle of nowhere where this guy was, was two

43:10

hours away. So she arranged to to have a hotel and it was going to be a hotel meet for

43:15

her. So it's like, okay, that's fine.

43:19

But it's, um. As it got closer.

43:22

I'm kind of thinking, I don't know how I feel about this.

43:25

I know we've done the hotel meet before. I know I'm staying in a hotel with somebody, but the first time we met, we both knew both

43:33

of the couples and we'd played with them previously. The person I was going to stay with, we'd both played with on numerous occasions.

43:41

You know, again, this was a guy that neither of us had met.

43:45

Mr. Sno: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: And she was I'm like, and you're going to stay overnight with him in the hotel?

43:51

I'm like, mhm. I don't know.

43:54

Mr. Sno: That's a big step for me. Mrs Sno: And I'm and I'm going to be X amount of hours the other direction.

43:58

You know what I mean. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Foxy: And I'm thinking, am I being unfair because I'm staying in a hotel with somebody, right.

44:05

And I'm going to tell you, I don't want them staying. I'm like, God, how does that work?

44:10

And in my head I'm going, but we've never met the guy.

44:13

Mrs Sno: And right there is different. Mr. Sno: There's some pretty distinct differences.

44:16

Mrs Sno: Sure. Mr. Foxy: I'm thinking, you know what?

44:19

You actually, you haven't even earned the right to stay in a hotel with her overnight

44:24

yet. You haven't. You haven't done the groundwork. You haven't proven yourself.

44:28

You know, that's kind of like a phrase. Mrs Sno: Yeah.

44:31

Mr. Foxy: You know, if you if you met somebody and you got on with them and they treat you with

44:34

respect and they, you know, all that kind of stuff, and you think, do you know what?

44:38

You're a good guy. I trust you, you know, just kind of say we're friends.

44:41

It's like, hey, knock yourself out.

44:43

You know, it's fine, but but it's how do you bring that up?

44:48

How do I say, you know, hey, I'm in a hotel, but I'm not going to let you do that.

44:54

Mhm. That was, that was kind of really hard.

44:57

Mhm. Mrs Sno: When I get that in the sense you know I it's interesting you talk about that and obviously

45:03

you and I think are similar in our, in just our personalities.

45:07

I had to kind of do the same thing. You know, when he talked about he needs kind of a win.

45:11

He wants to have this experience. He needs more of that connection.

45:15

Um, yeah. You know, and he has been so supportive and so encouraging of me having

45:21

the best sex of my life and me having all of these experiences.

45:24

And what kind of person would I be if I said I can do it?

45:27

But you can't. Sure. You know, because it's it's not the same thing in that like what he would be

45:33

doing is obviously different than what I'm doing. Um, because obviously he needs something different.

45:37

But I can totally understand grappling in your head with.

45:41

Well, he's letting me do it.

45:43

Why wouldn't I mean, it would be unfair, right?

45:46

I've used that phrase. It's unfair of me to say, no, you can't do that when it's not been

45:52

that other way. You know what I mean? But it is different.

45:54

And so it's. Yeah, it's such a hard kind of thing to grapple with.

45:58

Yeah. No, but I get. Mr. Foxy: It tore me apart.

46:01

Mrs Sno: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: Really tore me apart for a while.

46:03

I'm thinking, you know, am I, am I becoming, am I becoming a handbrake.

46:08

You know I've been the one that's been. Yeah. Let's take the brakes off and go for it.

46:13

And then all of a sudden I'm, you know, things are going good for her.

46:16

And I'm going, whoa, whoa. That's how my perception was, um, you know, but it's like you having to apply that.

46:23

The safety thing. The protection thing?

46:26

Yeah. You know, I want you to have a good time, but I kind of want you to come home.

46:29

That would be nice. Mr. Sno: Do you. Do you think.

46:31

And. And I don't want to disparage Miss Foxy in any way at all, but do you think she

46:36

understood your reservations?

46:39

Mr. Foxy: Um. Good question.

46:43

Good question. Um. At the time.

46:48

I think there was parts of her that questioned why I was saying it.

46:52

Yeah. With, with the you know, we as you know, we talk about this all the time.

46:56

This, this this, this fun game is all about communication, right?

47:00

And having long, deep, heartfelt conversations.

47:04

And we've had many, many of those.

47:08

Over the last four, six weeks.

47:12

Eight weeks, however long it's been.

47:14

Um, and that's helped, you know, if you can open up and share how you feel and come at it

47:20

from a place of non-judgment, you can really start to understand how each of you feel

47:25

about those situations and circumstances in the heat of the moment.

47:30

It can be a little bit cloudy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

47:33

So it's how you get from one to the other.

47:37

And at the time, you know, she and you know you mentioned about the control.

47:42

Absolutely. I agree with you on that one. I'd always been the one with the steering wheel and the accelerator and whatever.

47:47

Yeah. All of a sudden she's got it.

47:50

I haven't even got my foot near the brake.

47:53

Mr. Sno: Yeah. So you're kind of grappling with the out of control feeling a little bit.

47:56

Mr. Foxy: Yeah. And the problem is in her prior relationship.

48:03

She had. There were a lot of issues about.

48:08

Control in that relationship.

48:10

Mrs Sno: Yeah. And so she's kind of reveling in the idea that she can she has that ability to be

48:16

I mean, you're supportive enough in her doing that.

48:19

But the problem. Mr. Foxy: Is anything I bring up, right.

48:22

That looks like. Yeah, being controlling is the sudden flashing lights going off for her that.

48:28

Wow, I've had this in the past. Yeah. I don't like the way this feels even though it's coming from a different place.

48:34

Mrs Sno: Yeah, it's apples and oranges, but I can appreciate that it feels the same.

48:37

Yeah. Yeah. You know. Mr. Foxy: So we kind of had a bit of that going on as well.

48:41

And I was more fearful of I don't want to I don't want to come across that way because I

48:45

know that's been there. Right. So I'm almost I'm almost wanting to let things happen contrary to how I feel,

48:52

because I don't want her to get upset or view me in a way that I don't want her to.

48:57

Mrs Sno: Gosh, gosh, so messy. Mr. Sno: So let me ask you this. Mrs Sno: So many layers.

48:59

Mr. Sno: There. I feel like the way that I would approach that scenario, communication wise,

49:05

is to use a lot of I feel statements, right, you know, to say to my other person like,

49:12

hey, listen, I feel uncomfortable because I worry about your safety.

49:16

I feel that and and I think it would be important for me to try to convey to my

49:20

person that, um, it's not that I'm trying to control how you feel.

49:25

I'm not trying to control what you are thinking or want to do.

49:28

I want to share with you how I'm feeling.

49:30

Right. So I guess my question is, how did you approach it.

49:34

Mr. Foxy: Exactly like that? That is how I'm fortunately, you know, I'm I'm able to take that step back.

49:42

Yeah. And and and because the last thing you want to do and what the big mistake that so

49:46

many people do is, well, you did this and you did that right.

49:50

And we said that was going to happen and you weren't going to allow that.

49:54

And then it suddenly, you know, the barriers go up.

49:56

People get defensive. Yeah. But you did that before and you never said and and you don't address anything.

50:02

Mr. Sno: Well, there's a big difference between communication and combat.

50:05

Mr. Foxy: Oh yes. Yes. But you've you've hit the nail on the head though.

50:09

That just it sounds a little bit kind of tree hugging but it's so necessary.

50:13

It's like well I feel this and I'm not I'm not trying to suggest that you have done

50:18

anything at all. But when this happened, it made me feel this way.

50:22

And I'm feeling a little, you know, I kind of had to say things like, I feel really

50:26

vulnerable. I feel quite isolated.

50:28

I feel, you know, that I, I'm not involved or whatever, you know, be honest about your

50:35

feelings. You know, let's be fair. Us guys generally are not very good at that, for the most part, until you get into this

50:41

stuff. Mrs Sno: I mean, you talk about communication in the lifestyle, but it also is a lot of.

50:46

Feeling, uh. Feeling safe.

50:49

That sounds very true, Huggy, but, like, you have to feel safe with your person.

50:53

You have to feel safe in the sense that I have to be able to say to you, I feel

50:58

vulnerable, I feel isolated, I am really struggling with with how I feel about x, y,

51:05

z. You know, it's you have to be very in tune to yourself, um, and very secure in your

51:12

relationship to, to share those things.

51:14

Mr. Sno: And you have to be willing to sacrifice whatever it is you want to help that other

51:18

person get there. Mrs Sno: Yeah. Correct. Mr. Sno: You know, and that's, you know, we say that like you have to travel at the pace of

51:25

whoever is the slowest partner. Yeah. Um, and that's really what that is like.

51:29

You have to be willing to sacrifice whatever it is you're might want to do.

51:33

Mrs Sno: You have to be willing to say, even though I really, really want this and I really but you

51:37

are not in the same place as me, and I have to stop or slow down or whatever.

51:41

Yeah. This was this. Mr. Foxy: Was tricky because it was a huge shift.

51:45

Yeah. Miss Foxy had always been the individual with whom we were having to

51:51

manage, going at the slowest pace.

51:53

Yeah, right. All of a sudden. Overnight. Yeah.

51:56

I'm. I'm the snail. Right. Yeah. Suddenly I'm like, this is weird.

52:01

I don't know how to deal with this because I've never been in this position before.

52:05

Mrs Sno: Talk about a mind fuck. Mr. Sno: So what happened with that hotel meet?

52:08

Did it happen? Mr. Foxy: Yeah. It did. It did happen.

52:13

Um, again, nobody's head fell off.

52:15

Always good. Um, but we managed to get to the point where we said, look, hey, can we

52:21

can we set a how do you feel about us setting a curfew?

52:25

You know, you can. He can turn up, you can meet.

52:28

You can. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever I said.

52:31

But, you know, I'd I'd really appreciate it if if he didn't stay over.

52:35

It makes me feel really uncomfortable. How do you feel about that? And she's like, okay, well.

52:40

You know, if if that's how it needs to be, that's fine.

52:43

We'll do it that way. So we but the problem was and this is you know.

52:49

You end up adapting these rule sets as you go, because we had that conversation and made

52:54

agreement and we'd said, yeah, can can we, you know, can he not stay overnight?

52:59

But I made a mistake of not going.

53:02

Can we set the time as okay.

53:05

Mrs Sno: Yeah. Mr. Sno: Okay. Mr. Foxy: You know, and because I almost felt you know, it's like, no, I'm your father.

53:11

You make sure that you have the time.

53:14

Mr. Sno: You better be home by 11. Mr. Foxy: I kind of didn't want to do that.

53:17

Yeah, but. You know. Oh, see, this is this.

53:23

I'm going to do this. I'm. I'm baring all this was embarrassing for me.

53:26

So I'm away at this hotel, meet with with this great friend of ours, this this unicorn.

53:33

Um, we're having we're having fun. Great time. And but it got to about midnight.

53:39

And I've not heard anything from Miss Foxy.

53:42

Mhm. Um, and I had an idea in my head as to what I thought was okay.

53:47

And of course, you know, I'm just assuming that she'll feel the same way.

53:50

Yeah, sure. Well, you know, it's like gets to midnight, gets to quarter after it gets

53:56

to. 1230 and I'm going, whoa, what's going on here now?

54:02

Yeah. And I'm sat there. I'm I'm worrying now.

54:05

I'm getting into anxiety state.

54:08

What's happening here, you know, is he pushing things?

54:11

Is he trying to kick the backside out of this or, you know.

54:16

And so the fortunately, the lady I'm with is a good friend of ours and and like she can

54:22

see I'm stressing a bit and she's like, look, you know, just everything's fine, you

54:26

know? And I think it got to the point where it got to.

54:32

A 12:45. And again, I'm on the.

54:35

Is everything okay? Question mark.

54:37

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Again. And she's like.

54:41

Then I get like a message back a little while after.

54:44

Oh, it's all fine. He's he's just he's just.

54:46

I can't remember if it's he's just leaving or he's just left one I think he's oh he's

54:50

about to leave. Well, even at this point I'm thinking.

54:54

So your phone's just beeps. You've got the message. And he's now pulling his pants on.

54:58

What time was he going to stay till now?

55:00

That wasn't what happened at all. Sure. That's just what's going on in my crazy.

55:06

Mrs Sno: Absolutely, absolutely. That makes little sense, you know.

55:09

Mr. Foxy: And we talked about it afterwards and she's like, hey, you know, we went to dinner.

55:13

Uh, he was going to leave. I said, look, why don't you come up to my room and chat?

55:16

Because I'm going to be on my own and I'll feel a bit lonely.

55:19

So he came up and we chatted, and that was that.

55:24

And I. And that's it kind of.

55:26

Exactly. So when she explains this, I'm going, oh, God, I feel so dumb.

55:31

Mr. Sno: You know, but I don't I don't think that's I mean, I think you're being hard on yourself

55:34

in that because, you know, that lack of communication.

55:39

Mrs Sno: When one just goes nuts. Mr. Sno: Absolutely. When we're not communicative with our people, we create that uncertain space

55:45

for whatever they're afraid of to grow.

55:47

Mrs Sno: Oh, 100%. Mr. Sno: And, and I think that's that's really a key thing there.

55:51

I mean, if she had and again, I don't want to disparage her at all.

55:54

But like just in this particular example, if she had communicated with you a little bit

55:59

along the way, hey, we've just had dinner. We're going to go upstairs and have a chat.

56:02

Everything's fine. You probably would have had a very different.

56:06

Mr. Foxy: Night disturb you because you're playing well. Mrs Sno: Right? Right. Yeah, right.

56:09

There's a lot of dynamics there. Mr. Foxy: So we hadn't really thought through.

56:13

Sure. And absolutely we sat down afterwards and we thought, you know, as we do, we picked

56:18

it all apart and asked lots of questions and thought, okay, what do we need to learn from

56:23

this? We're going to. Mrs Sno: Set a timer at 9:00 that we'll have a check in.

56:26

We're going to set a timer at 11:00. We're going to have yeah, right.

56:30

Balls in. Mr. Sno: Hold on. Pull out. I have to send a text.

56:35

Mr. Foxy: Now off the back of this, we kind of we both sat down and discussed and thought, you know

56:39

what? I don't think either way, either one of us want to do an overnight stay in a hotel

56:44

again. Yeah, yeah. Okay. You know, that was that was a big learning.

56:47

Mrs Sno: Yeah, sure. Mr. Foxy: Well, you know, it worked well the first time we thought, hey, that was fun, let's do it

56:52

again. But that was a very specific situation.

56:55

Mrs Sno: Different. It was a different thing. Mr. Sno: And it was different in the sense that you guys were doing it.

56:59

Even though it was a separate hotel overnight together.

57:02

It was in it was together. You were together at dinner, you were going to be together at breakfast and you were all

57:07

in the same hotel. Right? So you all had that proximity.

57:11

Mr. Foxy: So this had kind of fallen apart at like midnight 1 a.m..

57:15

Yeah. And we had to wait.

57:17

I didn't, you know, I had to sleep off the rest of the night, get up, have breakfast,

57:24

jump in the car, drive back. So we arranged, I think I, we met up for for coffee.

57:29

Um. At, I don't know, 11:11 a.m.

57:36

midday somewhere like that. So that was kind of like a long period of time where we weren't together that we could

57:41

kind of, you know, give each other a hug and just say, hey, are you okay?

57:46

Absolutely. And that was that was the thing that we learned is, you know, having that

57:51

time apart, we needed to be able to, to reconnect.

57:55

I'm not talking reclaim. Yeah, yeah.

57:57

Mrs Sno: But just we had to reconnect.

57:59

Mr. Sno: Come back together. Mrs Sno: Yeah. Yep. Mr. Foxy: Much much sooner.

58:02

Mhm. Mrs Sno: Set eyes on my person. Yep. Mr. Foxy: So you know. But so yeah, we kind of we.

58:09

We did this crash course learning.

58:12

Yeah, yeah. You know, we figured out, hey, let's do it completely wrong from the get go.

58:17

Then we know where all where all the mistakes are.

58:19

Let's get them out the way. Mrs Sno: I mean, let's just jump in.

58:21

Well, it's. Mr. Sno: Hard not to do it wrong the first time. Mrs Sno: You can't edit a blank page.

58:24

Mr. Sno: So. Okay, so where does this all leave you?

58:27

Where? Where are we at in the timeline to now. Mrs Sno: Really getting her nails done?

58:31

Mr. Sno: She's in a hotel somewhere. She could be in a parking lot.

58:35

Oh. Mr. Foxy: It. Yeah, I mean, we we've we've had, like I said, several really deep, open, earnest

58:43

emotional conversations because this is real, you know, heavy and deep.

58:48

Um, and I was really struggling with, you know, her.

58:52

Herb single profile inbox was getting inundated and she was engaging a lot of chat.

58:56

And I'm going, do you know what? This is making me feel again, really isolated and lonely.

59:01

I'm I'm this is knocking my confidence.

59:03

You know, she's getting inundated with guys sort of you know in their in their 30s you

59:11

know guys and some of these guys are ripped.

59:14

They're hung. Yeah. You know it's like and I'm thinking and are you meeting up with you know she's

59:20

chatting to them and I'm thinking, are you just chatting because of the experience of

59:24

chatting. And it makes you feel good, which goes in line with, you know, what you were

59:28

saying, that I know that's important to her.

59:31

But at what point is this going to migrate to a social or meet?

59:36

And are you thinking about you know, I'm suddenly thinking, uh, we did have a bit of a

59:42

joke. There's this one guy that I kind of called Mr.

59:45

Olympics. You know, this this guy had a cock like a baby's arm holding an apple.

59:53

And his. His photos on his profile have got him with women in positions that I just

1:00:01

didn't even know were feasible. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm thinking.

1:00:05

So all of a sudden I'm thinking, okay, so this new venture where I'm going to be in, in

1:00:11

Antarctica with the penguins and you're going to be out with Mr.

1:00:16

Olympics and the rest of his kindred spirits.

1:00:19

Yeah. Who are going to be, you know, trapeze artists, lion taming, holding her upside down

1:00:26

and, and, you know, all this kind of thing, all the kind of stuff that part of me wants

1:00:30

to say, hey, go have fun, you know?

1:00:34

Yeah. And then I'm thinking, you're never going to want to come home again, right?

1:00:38

Mr. Sno: I grappled with this, and I know.

1:00:40

Mr. Foxy: That's not true, but that's how it's making me feel.

1:00:42

Mrs Sno: Oh, absolutely. Mr. Sno: I grappled with this early on because our very first, um, MFM, our very first meet with

1:00:49

anybody. Speaker4: Yeah. Mrs Sno: Our very first.

1:00:51

Mr. Sno: Yeah, was with a guy who was he was bigger than.

1:00:55

He was taller than me. He was bigger than me. And he had a much bigger dick than me.

1:00:58

And I watched her absolutely love it.

1:01:02

Yeah. And as much as I was completely excited about the fact that she had a

1:01:07

phenomenal time and I really was, and it was super hot, um, there was definitely that.

1:01:14

Oh. Well, I hope she had fun because I'll never be able to give her that well.

1:01:18

Mrs Sno: Right. But it opened that whole like.

1:01:20

Oh, no, like, is she gonna want this?

1:01:23

I can't give this to her. Right. So, like, it's hard.

1:01:25

Mr. Sno: To watch your person love something that you cannot give.

1:01:29

Mrs Sno: Them? Yeah. Mr. Sno: That's difficult.

1:01:31

Mr. Foxy: And we've had that conversation very deeply because up until now, you know.

1:01:37

I'm a big, tall dude. I'm. I'm, you know.

1:01:41

Ex-american football player and you know I do okay.

1:01:46

Up till this point, she's you know, she's always kind of said, you know, you're the

1:01:50

best I've had. You're the biggest I've had.

1:01:52

Yeah. And I kind of like that. I kind of like being that person.

1:01:56

Speaker4: Right. Mr. Foxy: All of a sudden I'm looking at her inbox and thinking, I'm going to be that person for

1:02:00

very much longer. Right. Speaker4: Yeah. Mrs Sno: And there's, there's a, there's a level of hard that threatens, I mean, that's a

1:02:06

threatening thing, right? Like it is because you have that connection, you know, and it's

1:02:09

interesting. You know, we talk and I guess in the contrast, like you tell me all the

1:02:16

time, like I'm the best that you've had and you are and, and I have the best pussy and

1:02:22

all of the things you know. And it's so to to think about you engaging with all these other women or, you know,

1:02:30

having those experiences. I can appreciate the.

1:02:33

Well, I'm, I'm not going to be the best for longer. I mean, you know, and I mean, like I you're going to engage and have these experiences

1:02:39

that potentially could be better.

1:02:41

Right. And that's, that's well I can appreciate that would be hard to to kind of.

1:02:45

Mr. Sno: And in the. Mr. Foxy: Miss Foxy has had that as well because you know like I say, she's had these bad

1:02:50

experiences and seen me with another woman kind of going to town.

1:02:53

And I'm you know what everybody does I mean obviously.

1:03:00

Women do the comparison lot guys do as well, you know.

1:03:02

And she was looking at me and saying, well, you know, she's taller than me.

1:03:06

She's younger than me. She's got longer legs than me.

1:03:08

Why do. Mrs Sno: You not. Mr. Foxy: Want to be with her?

1:03:11

Yeah. You know, and so she's like going, look, I get it, you know, this is what I've

1:03:17

been going through. Yeah. You're now seeing kind of what I was seeing.

1:03:21

Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: And you do have that. And I say the same thing I said, but I'm kind of having fun.

1:03:26

This is kind of naughty, but nobody's better than you are, right?

1:03:30

You know you are. You are what I want.

1:03:32

You are. Because everything that I need. Mrs Sno: But there's so much more than that physicality, right.

1:03:37

You know what I mean? Like the relationship that we have, I would pick that every day,

1:03:42

despite the amazing experience I have over here.

1:03:44

Mr. Sno: But I think that's where that that exact situation is, where I'm coming to mentally

1:03:51

with all this solo play stuff because, um, you know, it, it took me a while, a few days,

1:03:58

not really that long, but a few days to get to the point where after that first event, I

1:04:03

was really completely good with it, and I was genuinely happy that you had a great

1:04:07

experience, and I was good with that.

1:04:10

Like, that was enough. I was completely happy with that, and I sort of view it as like, I know what we have.

1:04:17

I'm not threatened by anything relationship wise, and so I can be fully happy about you

1:04:23

having an outstanding sexual experience, even if it's in ways or a thing that I can't

1:04:29

do for you. In fact, in a way it's almost better, right?

1:04:32

Because it's almost it.

1:04:34

I would want you to get something extra from that.

1:04:37

What's the point of doing it if you're not right? But when you come to the solo play part and the emotional piece, now you're bringing in

1:04:44

like dates and now you're bringing in like emotional chats, and you're bringing in like,

1:04:50

you're bringing inside jokes. You're bringing in the relationship element.

1:04:53

It's not just you just had amazing sex with Mr.

1:04:57

Olympia. And that's all well and good.

1:04:59

And we're all going to go home now. It's you're going to go on dates with another person and you're going to connect

1:05:03

with them. You're going to tell them things about your life, things about your day.

1:05:07

You're going to start to share those relationship things with someone else.

1:05:13

And I feel like for me, that's.

1:05:16

That's a gray area where I'm still kind of molding into.

1:05:21

Speaker4: Hmm. Mr. Foxy: And I think, you know, I mean, there were slightly different elements that for me,

1:05:26

because I'm thinking she's going to be chatting to these guys, and there's a handful

1:05:31

of guys she's been talking to much more than others and, and more frequently.

1:05:36

And it's interesting to see between the guys. There's there's one guy who's he's he's very lifestyle.

1:05:43

So when they chat. He tells.

1:05:47

He tells her what he's been getting up to with other people and wants to know from her

1:05:51

what she's been doing with other meats. So they have like this.

1:05:54

They share this. Hey, what's your lifestyle experience been like since we spoke last?

1:05:59

You know, have you had a great time? This happened. This is really cool.

1:06:01

And it stays like that. And then there's like.

1:06:06

Another guy who shall chat to and it's like, so, you know, what do you like?

1:06:10

And you know, where do you see things going and whatever.

1:06:14

And then there's a third guy, which is, you know.

1:06:17

It almost like like you said, you get a little bit wary of. And it's like you're talking about the, you know, the kids and the family and.

1:06:23

Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: You know what you've done at work.

1:06:25

And and so there's like real distinct differences depending on who you're talking

1:06:30

to, which is a bit strange.

1:06:32

And then there's the, you know, the fact that you're developing more rapport.

1:06:37

And I know you can do this in the lifestyle if you meet somebody more than once, but if

1:06:42

they're spending time saying, you know, okay, so what do you what do you really like

1:06:47

about me? How do you want things to develop? What can I do next time?

1:06:50

Have you got any fantasies? How can we develop? And it's like I'm suddenly start thinking right now you are

1:06:56

straying into my territory. I'm the one that gets to know about your fantasies.

1:07:00

I'm the one who gets to know your body the best. So you know you might have a good experience with them because they're very proficient,

1:07:07

but they don't know your intricacies. And the way I do that, when we have sex together, you're always going to feel more

1:07:14

connected to me, because if they're suddenly going like, tell me more, tell me more, how

1:07:20

was this? Do you want me to do this differently? You know, if you then meet them 4 or 5, six times, they're becoming like.

1:07:29

Another boyfriend. They're having that relationship.

1:07:31

They're starting to develop those intricacies, and suddenly they might be as

1:07:36

proficient as I am because they're getting to know the intricacies that I know.

1:07:40

Right? And that's where then it could get a bit iffy because they are 20 years younger

1:07:45

than me and well. Mrs Sno: Now you're replaceable.

1:07:47

Speaker4: Right? Whatever. Yeah. Mr. Sno: Well you start to you start to wonder, is she thinking about him or me?

1:07:52

Not necessarily during sex, but just in general. Yeah. You know, is she at work right now thinking about him?

1:07:58

You know, have they been texting and chatting all day?

1:08:02

Like you can see where it starts to get kind of insidious.

1:08:04

Mrs Sno: Well, right. Like if you're unavailable, right. I'm gonna chat with him and not you.

1:08:08

Right. Speaker4: You know, we had. Mr. Foxy: That conversation because, you know, they, you know, and I, I didn't have a problem with

1:08:15

it. I'd given permission. It was like I was okay.

1:08:18

Yeah. You know, I know that you like this connection, and it's important, so.

1:08:22

Hey. That's okay. You're letting me know you're doing it.

1:08:24

I know when it's happening and you're telling me bits about what you're talking

1:08:28

about, so I should be okay with that, right?

1:08:31

But then when you're sat at home together and the TV is on and I'm watching TV and.

1:08:39

But you're talking to some other guy, and that's like, every night.

1:08:42

Speaker4: Um. Mr. Foxy: It's you suddenly start going.

1:08:46

Hang on. Are we losing something here? Mr. Sno: Yeah, I think that's a really important point.

1:08:51

Mrs Sno: Question. Are you losing something? Yeah.

1:08:53

Speaker4: We then had. Mr. Foxy: To put some restrictions in place.

1:08:55

So again it was a learning process.

1:08:58

Mr. Sno: Yeah I think that's a huge, huge statement.

1:09:02

Because we've always viewed the lifestyle and our involvement as gaining something.

1:09:08

You know, it's it's adding to our relationship. It's adding to our overall life.

1:09:13

I hadn't really thought about, are we losing something?

1:09:16

Mrs Sno: Is this taking something away from us?

1:09:19

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mrs Sno: That's a that is a big statement.

1:09:22

And that's a. That's a that's a and just even thinking about it, potentially doing it makes me

1:09:28

immediately be like, I don't want to do it right, right.

1:09:31

Mr. Sno: It makes me want to pull away hard. Speaker4: Yeah.

1:09:33

Mrs Sno: Because that's not what I want.

1:09:36

Mr. Sno: So are you guys still engaging in single play or have you backed out of it?

1:09:43

Speaker4: Well. Mr. Foxy: We have the breaks went on pretty solid.

1:09:47

Things moved, you know, the screeching of tires.

1:09:50

Um, you know, I, I mean, basically I say this tongue in cheek, I shut down all of my

1:09:57

single accounts. Speaker4: Yeah, like. Mr. Foxy: It made any difference.

1:10:02

Speaker4: Whatever. I'm off the market. Mr. Foxy: I but but Miss Foxy with the conversation had gone, okay, I can't I get what you're saying,

1:10:11

I see that I understand that and and it's like suddenly we've gone in and deleted a

1:10:16

load of stuff and turn the account, and she will turn it on briefly every now and again

1:10:21

just so she gets some messages come through, we'll have shits and giggles because some of

1:10:25

it's hysterical. Speaker4: You know. Mr. Foxy: But but it has been okay.

1:10:31

How we are in that process now is how do we incorporate that.

1:10:36

What what is it that we need to make sure that it it is about us.

1:10:41

Mhm. Um, and I mean we had so.

1:10:45

Kind of out of the blue this week. I surprised her.

1:10:49

I surprised her on Sunday and said, so, you know, um, you shaved your legs today.

1:10:55

Like. Yeah, why? Well, we might be having a meet tomorrow.

1:10:58

What? Yeah. It's like. Yeah, well, I just put something out on the app and see if we get a guy to

1:11:03

come over and, um, I, you know, you've been asking about having an MFM for a long time,

1:11:08

and, you know, I kind of feel bad for the way things are going.

1:11:10

So I thought, hey, you know, let's have an MFM. And that's going to be cool because I'm going to be there.

1:11:15

So I'm not going to feel isolated. Speaker4: Right? Mr. Foxy: I thought, let's, let's give it a go.

1:11:19

You know, this is something new. We haven't done it. She's interested.

1:11:22

I'm going to go. Yeah, let's let's do that then.

1:11:25

So we arranged that and this this guy showed up.

1:11:29

I mean, it was it was a bit interesting because it was last minute, but this was the

1:11:32

difference because I had a kind of arranged it and it was last minute.

1:11:37

She'd not even spoke to the guy. She didn't she hadn't spoken to him at all.

1:11:42

Yeah. And in fact and this is like even worse.

1:11:48

And it's bizarre how things unfold because we I'd had a conversation, I'd tried to

1:11:53

organise something for her previously that fell through, but on that occasion it was

1:11:58

going to be proper secret. It was like I was I was going to tell her that we were going to play just her and I,

1:12:05

and I was going to blindfold her and restrain her on the bed and, and was going to

1:12:09

play with her. But in the background, I was going to invite one of the guys that she'd met.

1:12:15

So it wasn't a complete stranger and invite him over and sneak him in.

1:12:20

And then we would both.

1:12:22

At one point she'd feel like four hands.

1:12:24

Mr. Sno: Yeah yeah, yeah. Mr. Foxy: And go, I mean.

1:12:27

Mrs Sno: That sounds hot, but I could also appreciate how that would be very jarring.

1:12:30

Mr. Sno: You would freaking. Speaker4: Love. You know, I don't know about that.

1:12:33

I don't know, I think I'd. Mr. Foxy: Be like, what the fuck? But that kind of fell through.

1:12:37

And I explained to her that I was going to do that.

1:12:40

And she went, oh, wow. She was like, like you're saying.

1:12:42

Yeah, that would that, that probably would have been pretty hot.

1:12:45

So I said, right, okay, well let's do that anyway. So we arranged to have this guy come over and I went to to pick him up because it's

1:12:53

really difficult to find where we live. Um, and then got back.

1:12:57

Restrained and blindfolded her, and we both came in.

1:12:59

So even when he showed up, she'd had no chance to speak to him.

1:13:02

Speaker4: Mm. Mr. Foxy: So it wasn't until it was kind of like.

1:13:05

Wasn't until we finished playing. It was the first time that she really spoke to him.

1:13:09

And we said afterwards she said, do you know what it was?

1:13:12

It was. It was okay. It was fun. There was nothing nothing wrong with it.

1:13:16

You know, the play was was was cool, she said.

1:13:21

But again, there was something missing. I hadn't even spoken to him.

1:13:24

There was no build up. I didn't, you know, we hadn't had that conversation.

1:13:28

So it did kind of leave her feeling a little bit cold, okay.

1:13:32

Because she hadn't had any interaction in the build up.

1:13:35

So it was interesting that, again, it kind of showed from the opposite end of the

1:13:39

spectrum why that was important to her.

1:13:41

Mr. Sno: Sure, sure. And that's how it would be for me.

1:13:44

I mean, if, if a, if a woman just materialized in my bedroom.

1:13:49

Could I have sex with her?

1:13:52

I'm gonna go with probably. You know, the 18 year old in me is like, fuck yeah, I can have sex with her, you know?

1:13:58

But but the the the now 40 year old me is kind of like, well, I don't know.

1:14:05

Let's see if she's nice. Speaker4: Like this. There's so much pressure I don't.

1:14:11

Mr. Sno: Know, I don't know. But it is funny how I've learned.

1:14:15

Speaker4: That I like her. Mr. Sno: Yeah, I've, I've learned that about myself.

1:14:18

And I've had I've learned it unfortunately through experiences that that that didn't

1:14:23

really work because that spark wasn't there.

1:14:25

Yeah. You know, and the difference when it comes to men and women is women mechanically

1:14:32

don't actually have to be that into it.

1:14:35

Men do. Yeah. You know, I mean, you the men have a performance element to this, right?

1:14:43

Women don't to that anywhere near the same extent.

1:14:48

Um, so that's a big difference. Mm.

1:14:52

Mr. Foxy: And it was, you know, I mean. Taking a slight step back as well.

1:14:58

The guy that she met at the hotel afterwards, I mean, that that was revelatory

1:15:05

for her because like we said earlier on, I'd always been in control.

1:15:11

I'd already organized. So this was the first time ever that she had approached a guy off her own back.

1:15:22

On her own account. She'd initiated response with him.

1:15:27

She had communicated with him, had arranged the meet with him, had turned up and played

1:15:36

with him, and came away and again ahead hadn't fallen off.

1:15:41

Um, and she was like. I did that all on my own.

1:15:46

Yeah, yeah. For the first time ever, you know, this was a lot of baggage that she brought from a

1:15:53

previous relationship. Being told you can't do anything.

1:15:57

And then suddenly, you know, understandably allowing me with the experience and knowledge

1:16:03

that I had. But this was like the first time that she kind of felt like.

1:16:08

I'm capable of doing this.

1:16:11

You know, nobody's done this other than through what I've put into it, right?

1:16:16

And it was I mean, this was kind of like.

1:16:20

Uh, it really was. This was like. A cannon exploding kind of a moment for her.

1:16:26

It just it changed everything in such a positive, confident way.

1:16:31

She came off that feeling amazing.

1:16:33

Um, but the and that was what made it even harder for me to communicate how I was

1:16:38

struggling. Right? Speaker4: Right person.

1:16:40

Mrs Sno: Is. Yeah. Your person is having this amazing, liberating, empowering experience and you're

1:16:45

about to shit all over it, right? Like, yeah, I appreciate how you wouldn't want to do that.

1:16:49

Absolutely. Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: That was that was really kind of weird.

1:16:53

And I'm going like, oh man, how do I do this?

1:16:56

Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Sno: Well, that that brings me to a question I was wondering about.

1:16:58

So we are a hot wife couple in that if Mrs.

1:17:04

Snow were to go out with a guy on a date and play and do all those things, unlike the two

1:17:10

of you, I would be beside myself, distracted, wondering what's going on.

1:17:17

What are they doing? What is she doing? What's he doing? What's everybody going?

1:17:20

What's everybody wearing? Have they done anything? Where are they now? What are they doing?

1:17:24

You know, like my my mental track would just be on fire with all that going on.

1:17:30

And so with that in mind, I know what I get out of it.

1:17:36

You know, if she goes out and has that experience with somebody else and comes home,

1:17:41

first of all, the reconnecting session is going to be unbelievable.

1:17:45

But I'm definitely getting something out of.

1:17:49

The whole thing, even though I'm not there and not part of it at that time.

1:17:53

Yeah. You guys don't have that same.

1:17:58

Kink, I guess, for lack of a better word.

1:18:00

So my question to you is. Not having a personal gain.

1:18:06

What are you getting out of her doing this?

1:18:10

Mr. Foxy: Massive question and something that we really had to analyze and ask ourselves because up

1:18:17

until this point. Speaker4: Kind of.

1:18:20

Mr. Foxy: When asked similar, we kind of said, what do you get out of this?

1:18:22

It's like, well, we see this as a gift that we give one another.

1:18:25

Yeah. Which is great when you're playing as a couple because we're both getting a gift.

1:18:31

Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: Um, we kind of thought that if we did it this way, it's just a different way of doing the

1:18:37

gift because, hey, she gets to go off and play with the guy.

1:18:40

And then on, you know, next week I get to go off and play with a woman.

1:18:46

But that kind of fell apart when there were no women there.

1:18:49

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah. Mr. Foxy: You know, and it's like, do you know.

1:18:53

Yeah. How does this work? You know, and I'm thinking, well, you've had like x number of bad meets where you haven't

1:19:00

had got to enjoy yourself. You know that the guy has kind of let everything down.

1:19:06

I've initially I've had a good time until she's told me what's happened.

1:19:12

And then all of a sudden I haven't had a good time.

1:19:14

Speaker4: Yeah. Mrs Sno: I totally. Speaker4: Get I've had.

1:19:16

Mrs Sno: More out of it. Totally get that. Yeah.

1:19:19

Mr. Foxy: But then as soon as I know that she's had a bad experience, I'm like, well, I didn't

1:19:23

enjoy that. Mrs Sno: Well, right. It takes a little bit away from our experience, from my experience.

1:19:28

Right. So I totally, totally get that. Mr. Foxy: I and that sounds weird because she's going like, yeah, right.

1:19:33

But you know, you got fucked. Speaker4: Yeah.

1:19:35

Mrs Sno: Like you're fine. But I think it's I totally understand that because I think I think about

1:19:41

in general the amount of confidence I've gotten from this entire.

1:19:45

Lifestyle, and I think about just the amazing impact it has had on my, uh,

1:19:52

sexuality, my just my sexual experience, but also just I think in general, it has made me

1:19:58

more of a confident person overall.

1:20:01

Yeah. And the fact that.

1:20:04

You and I have had this experience together, and I have gotten that out of it.

1:20:07

And you have not gotten that out of it is hard to hear.

1:20:12

Yeah. You know, so I totally understand like there's kind of this oh, it's not it's not

1:20:19

giving you the same thing. It's giving me.

1:20:21

And that does that. So then I think right then the guilt of it.

1:20:27

But then I think, yeah, so, so kind of fast forwarding to the question you asked him,

1:20:31

what am I getting out of it? I am, I am getting.

1:20:36

I'm getting out of it, that you are able to experience a fraction of what I've already

1:20:41

experienced. Yeah, yeah, that's such a weird thing.

1:20:44

Mr. Foxy: But was all of a sudden I'm now thinking like, well, you had X number of bad

1:20:49

experiences, does that mean I now have to kind of sit on my hands?

1:20:54

Yeah. And allow you to go off and play with x number of guys to kind of reset the

1:20:59

balance. Mrs Sno: Even the score. Yeah. Mr. Sno: We had this conversation about on our last episode on the subject of fairness came up.

1:21:05

Yeah. And this is really, really, really super important for me.

1:21:08

Okay. She made the statement, you know, well, it's not really fair that I have gotten

1:21:14

to do these things with these people and you haven't.

1:21:18

And I, I push back on that very, very hard.

1:21:22

And here's why. I think, for one thing, in any relationship, we shouldn't keep score.

1:21:28

Correct. Um, and but more importantly, this idea of fairness, just because I'm okay with

1:21:36

something does not mean that you have some obligation to be reciprocally okay with that

1:21:41

thing. Speaker4: Um. Mr. Sno: You know, I'm okay with you doing all of these things, but you're an entirely

1:21:46

different person. I mean, you don't have to be okay with all the same stuff in the other direction.

1:21:52

The only. The only fairness element that I ask for is that I ask that you genuinely

1:21:57

like. If I ask for something, I ask that you honestly consider it.

1:22:02

Mr. Foxy: Right? Yeah, I get that.

1:22:05

And I mean, you know, Miss Foxy kind of said to me that, you know, okay, so in the past,

1:22:11

stuff just happened not to work out, you know, what did it wasn't planned.

1:22:15

It just kind of happened, you know, and she basically kind of looked at me and said,

1:22:19

like, are you stupid? It's like, you, I don't want you to go off and purposely do something that is harmful to

1:22:29

yourself. Yeah. In order to try and make things better for something that kind of couldn't be helped.

1:22:36

Right? Right. You know, there's a difference between something happening and you purposely

1:22:41

going out there and chasing it. You know, it was like, yeah, yeah, okay.

1:22:47

I yeah. Mr. Sno: So let me ask you this. She, she went out and she had her own experience start to finish.

1:22:54

And that was a revolutionary experience for her.

1:22:58

Right. Did that scratch an itch and kind of satisfy that?

1:23:02

Or do you feel like that opened a box and now she would like to pursue more of that.

1:23:09

Mr. Foxy: Certainly initially massively.

1:23:11

The second it was like, wow, this is cool, this is great.

1:23:14

This could work. I'm actually enjoying this.

1:23:16

Speaker4: Um. Mr. Foxy: You know, and and you know what?

1:23:19

This is a weird thing she said to me, you know, for.

1:23:24

For years that we've been talking about this.

1:23:27

With my previous experience, I've always kind of said to her, look, you know what?

1:23:31

Swing is completely different. Sex is just sex.

1:23:33

It's kind of like it's a hobby, a pastime, a sport.

1:23:36

You go and do it. It's good fun. It has nothing to do with our relationship.

1:23:40

Right? And she, you know, for a long period of time struggled with that idea and has

1:23:44

gradually, gradually got to the point, you know, where she can feel more comfortable

1:23:49

about it. She's confident in herself. And she went off and did these things and then she suddenly went.

1:23:54

Speaker4: I get it? Yeah, I get it.

1:23:57

Yeah. Mr. Foxy: I get it. I can go off and have sex with these guys and I don't have to worry about

1:24:01

it. I'm just doing it for fun. Right? And then all of a sudden, I'm going.

1:24:06

Shit. Yeah, it doesn't make me feel very good.

1:24:09

Speaker4: You know? Mr. Foxy: But we're getting back to that kind of.

1:24:11

Mrs Sno: Be careful what you wish for, right? Speaker4: Like, man, emotions and.

1:24:14

Mr. Foxy: The relationship kind of thing suddenly didn't feel like the, the just hooking up and

1:24:21

doing it. Yeah. So it's you know there has been a massive learning curve for me, but I'm, you know,

1:24:26

unfortunately just at the point and I get I know that in her head she's like, yeah, I can

1:24:31

just go out, have fun with these guys, come home and everything's going to be fabulous.

1:24:35

And it's the first time ever I've got it.

1:24:38

And suddenly I'm the one having emotional issues about it.

1:24:42

Yeah, because I'm like, right, well I can't, I'm not there to protect you.

1:24:46

If something goes wrong, I, you know, I trust her implicitly.

1:24:51

Absolutely. Always have, always will do.

1:24:55

I don't trust the other guys. Mrs Sno: You don't know them?

1:24:58

Mr. Foxy: That's probably a bit unfair. Speaker4: Yeah. You know.

1:25:01

Mr. Foxy: A lot of them are great, and they're just there for a good time as well.

1:25:04

But. Mr. Sno: But you don't know that. Mr. Foxy: Some of them, you know, there a there are guys out there who are boundary pushers.

1:25:10

Speaker4: Yeah. There are guys. Mr. Foxy: Who kind of want, you know, they, they, they talk the talk.

1:25:17

But it's all about, you know, what can I get out of it?

1:25:19

And they, you know, they get some, some hot woman who's all up for it.

1:25:25

And you might discuss about what your boundaries are, but they might kind of push

1:25:29

things a little bit and in the spur of the moment. You know, you can go with something and it's so hard to claw something back after it's

1:25:37

done right. Um, so I'm suddenly, like, going I'm not sure whether this is quite as straightforward

1:25:43

as, you know, before we were both there, we were meeting couples.

1:25:47

We knew who they were. They were the same age.

1:25:49

They were same experience. You're suddenly, as we, as we quite often say, fishing in a different pond.

1:25:55

Yeah. It's a whole different dynamic, you know, and I think when I more often than not

1:26:04

and I kind of say to him, I don't know whether, whether you'll agree with me here.

1:26:08

Like for me as a guy, if I, if I go with another woman.

1:26:12

I mean, it's not clinical. It's not a, it's not a to do list.

1:26:16

To do list. I don't go like, you know, number one do this number two.

1:26:19

But usually my performance is relatively similar.

1:26:23

I know what I'm going to do. It's like this is going to happen. This is going to happen.

1:26:26

This is going to happen. Speaker4: Right? Yeah. Mr. Foxy: And it's fairly kind of, you know, it's fun because it's with different people and it

1:26:31

might feel a bit different and it might be in a different whatever.

1:26:34

But I know that it's just going to be this, this and this for example.

1:26:38

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah. Mr. Foxy: She's now meeting a bunch of guys who, like you say, are like Mr.

1:26:43

Olympics or Mr. Circus or, you know, and these are guys who are going to do stuff that I'm never going to

1:26:50

do with any other women because, you know, 99% of the time the women want to be led.

1:26:55

They, you know, they kind of want to be fucked or they want stuff to happen.

1:26:59

Not very often. You've got a woman who goes, who's going to suddenly perform circus tricks

1:27:04

on you. You know, things aren't going to be suddenly different for me, right?

1:27:08

You know, I'm not saying every meet is identical, but there's a lot of similarity.

1:27:13

You kind of know what you're going to expect. Speaker4: Um.

1:27:15

Mr. Foxy: Now, I'm kind of saying.

1:27:19

You're not, you know. I'm not sure.

1:27:22

What you're going to end up in, in a particular particular situation or scenario.

1:27:29

And I get that you're going into it thinking this, this and this will happen, but it might

1:27:34

not. And I don't know and you don't know.

1:27:38

You know, and whilst I kind of trust her to kind of go, whoa, hang on a second.

1:27:42

That's not happening. You know, there are edges that get.

1:27:47

Speaker4: A bit blurry. Mrs Sno: The decisions that you make with your clothes off right, versus the decisions that you make

1:27:52

with your clothes on. Mr. Sno: Right? Well, sure. And the fact of the matter is there is there is risk to all of this.

1:27:59

Yeah. You know, there's emotional risk. There's physical risk.

1:28:02

There's, uh, there's always going to be an unknown factor.

1:28:06

It's always going to be that. So yeah. So to kind of wrap all this up as far as where we're at now, what does the future look

1:28:13

like from here? Speaker4: Um.

1:28:18

Mr. Foxy: I think in in all honesty, we are probably going to back away from, from solar play.

1:28:26

We're not going to say it's not.

1:28:28

It's not being put in the tin and the lid being put on, but it's going to become it's

1:28:34

just going to be a. Another club in the golf bag.

1:28:37

Speaker4: Yeah, but. Mr. Foxy: It's probably not going to be the one that we use very.

1:28:40

Speaker4: Often. Yeah, sure. Mr. Foxy: You know, we we're we're having to look at, you know, we did this in order to, to try and

1:28:49

ameliorate a problem that we'd encountered elsewhere.

1:28:52

I think we need to find a new way of dealing with that, that problem in how we communicate

1:28:58

and how we communicate with other couples. Um, and, you know, on, on special occasions, you know, we might go, you know, that random

1:29:11

chance where I stumble across a lady or it might be, for example, we might we might go

1:29:16

to a club and I might get to play with a hot wife couple, or I might bump into a solo lady

1:29:21

and I get the opportunity to play solo there. And whilst, like you said, it's not, it's we don't see this as tit for tat or counting,

1:29:29

but it might be that she's not going to feel as bad about me, about me doing that.

1:29:33

If she knows she's going to get an opportunity to go and meet a guy to play

1:29:36

solo. So it's just it's like an extra.

1:29:39

It's like the cherry on the cake, you know?

1:29:41

We'll just it'll be the odd 1 or 2.

1:29:43

We're going to focus on the cake a bit more.

1:29:46

Mr. Sno: Mhm I love cake. Mrs Sno: Cake is delicious I'm not gonna lie.

1:29:49

And special occasion take Thursday man. You know what happens that.

1:29:52

Mr. Sno: Makes that makes a lot of sense. I mean I can definitely you know part of all of that we call it the stretch right.

1:30:00

Because you there are times where you stretch a little, you kind of go out in the

1:30:05

world a little and say, ah, I'm going to take a little bit of risk here.

1:30:09

I'm going to take some risks, some emotional risk. Um, and I'm going to find out if I like this or not.

1:30:14

Yeah. Mrs Sno: You're dipping your toe in the water. Mr. Sno: Um, and, and I feel like that's kind of.

1:30:18

We're in that same we're kind of in that same position right now.

1:30:22

Um, with solo play. Um. I don't I don't see solo play becoming a big part of our dynamic.

1:30:30

Mrs Sno: Yeah, I'm not interested in it. I mean, I mean, solo play for me would literally be like the scenario that you wrote

1:30:39

that little story about, like, yeah, yeah, we all meet together down at the bar.

1:30:42

I may go up with him and you very much join us later.

1:30:46

I mean, like you're talking. Mr. Sno: About 1 or 2 hours, not.

1:30:49

Mrs Sno: All nighter, 100% like. But I have no interest in really engaging with people.

1:30:55

Like setting up a date, like, I don't I don't have any interest in that.

1:30:58

Mr. Sno: Well, and the other thing too, is I don't have a big interest in connecting with a lot

1:31:02

of people. Um, I have an interest in connecting with a couple of people.

1:31:08

Mrs Sno: Well, Mr. Foxy, that's not going to be a problem if you put your single profile out there, right?

1:31:13

Yeah. Mr. Sno: There will be one person that messages me, and it'll be perfect.

1:31:16

That's what I want. Mrs Sno: So you don't have any fear?

1:31:22

I'm not going to put myself out there and get 100 dick pics.

1:31:25

Mr. Sno: You get dick pics all the time. Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Sno: So. Well, thank you so much for for coming on and talking to us about this.

1:31:32

I think it's a tremendous experience, especially because you guys are a very

1:31:36

experienced lifestyle couple. Um, and I think I told you this when we were in the UK talking about it, uh, it's it is

1:31:44

helpful for us. And I don't know if we still count as newbies or not.

1:31:47

We don't really know when that term falls off, but it's helpful to talk to much more

1:31:53

experienced lifestylers and recognize that they have.

1:31:57

They still have some of the same feelings that that we do.

1:32:00

Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: And that's a big message.

1:32:03

I think, you know, as you know, over here in the UK, we're involved in a newbie night and

1:32:07

we try and help people along. Um, and it is important to share that, that knowledge.

1:32:13

But it's also important, like you said, to show that we all have these wobbles.

1:32:19

Things will show up. This situation cropped up where all of a sudden I'm a newbie again.

1:32:24

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Foxy: That I'm it's neither here nor there.

1:32:27

Speaker4: I became a. Mr. Foxy: Newbie in this in this situation and this dynamic.

1:32:31

And I think, you know, allowing people to understand that.

1:32:35

Things change all the time. Dynamics are always different.

1:32:38

You know, you talk about even even in a hot wife scenario.

1:32:42

I'd say pretty much every single hot wife couple is different.

1:32:46

You're not all the same. Yeah, you don't buy the same rules, so you can't just paint it one color.

1:32:51

Speaker4: Right? Mr. Foxy: So you have to understand how it works for you and and kind of know it's okay to, to

1:32:58

make mistakes. They're not really mistakes. They're lessons. You just need to learn from them.

1:33:02

Sure. You know so yeah, we we push the boat out there and we paddle around a bit.

1:33:06

We maybe fell out once or twice, but we're back on shore now and and you know, we know a

1:33:12

little bit more about the waters around us. It's cool.

1:33:15

Mrs Sno: Yeah. It's also amazing that, you know, the established couples that have been doing this

1:33:19

for longer. I feel like even when you have these experiences, even it may not be a all

1:33:25

positive experience or, you know, it's not the route you go, it just makes you that much

1:33:30

closer as a couple. Yeah. And strengthens your relationship.

1:33:33

Mr. Foxy: Absolutely positive. Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: It's uncomfortable.

1:33:36

Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Foxy: You know some of the things you go through can be very uncomfortable.

1:33:40

But the outcome right is phenomenal.

1:33:43

It's you know you you do find the positives.

1:33:46

You do understand. And it definitely does bring you closer.

1:33:49

Speaker4: Absolutely. Mrs Sno: You just the ability to be that vulnerable and I mean vulnerable and things that you

1:33:56

didn't even know that would make you vulnerable, you know, like really just makes

1:33:59

you closer. So yeah. Mr. Sno: And I'm going to give a lot of thought to that concept of gaining and losing.

1:34:04

Mrs Sno: Yeah, that's a really I never. Mr. Sno: Really thought about it like that, but I, I really like that concept.

1:34:10

Speaker4: Mhm. Mr. Sno: Well thank you so much for coming on guys.

1:34:15

Next time we're going to have to have both foxes.

1:34:19

Mr. Foxy: Both foxes I will, I will pin her down the next time and she might want to recant her,

1:34:25

her side of things, say well he got that completely wrong last time.

1:34:28

Mr. Sno: Well you know, and actually I, I do think it would be awesome to get her side of this

1:34:34

whole experience, too. Speaker4: Yeah. Mr. Sno: Um, so I'd love to have her on if she wants to come and talk to us.

1:34:40

Speaker4: She would. Mr. Foxy: Love to. Mr. Sno: Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll see you around the discord.

1:34:45

Mr. Foxy: Absolutely great chatting. Speaker4: You take care.

1:34:47

Mr. Sno: All right. Talk to you later. Mrs Sno: We want to hear from you.

1:34:50

Email us at [email protected].

1:34:53

That's s n o m i l f @ yahoo.com.

1:34:58

You can also join us on our discord and have some fun, interactive conversations with us.

1:35:03

The link is in the show notes.