0:09

Hi everyone, and welcome to SAF Ready the Podcast here

0:10

at the University of Waterloo.

0:13

On this podcast we'll have a variety

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of guest students, faculty and staff

0:16

to all let you in on what the School

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of Accounting and Finance has to offer.

0:20

I'm Sam and I'll be your host.

0:23

Today we have Steve Balaban

0:23

who is one of our professors

0:26

here at the school

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and he's going to be talking today

0:28

about the international study, of course,

0:28

which is one that he teaches and runs

0:31

and has all the ins and outs

0:31

and understanding about what it is.

0:34

So thank you again so much for coming. Steve, how are you today?

0:36

I'm great.

0:36

Thanks for having me. Sam. Absolutely.

0:39

So we're going to kind of dive right in. So what is the international study course?

0:42

So think of this right, it's a course

0:42

where you get to go to a different place

0:45

in the world to learn from professionals

0:45

of what's happening in that world.

0:48

For example,

0:48

going to the UK to learn about Brexit.

0:51

Oh cool. Going to Hong Kong to learn about

0:51

what's going on in Asia. Yeah.

0:54

And during the course,

0:54

we get to interview professionals

0:56

before the course

0:56

we get the research professionals,

0:58

and then after the course we get to write up what we learn

0:59

from these professionals.

1:02

That's so cool. So do you look like.

1:02

Is it kind of like all student run?

1:05

Like the like,

1:05

how is it kind of the process of

1:07

like finding those connections

1:07

in those different countries work?

1:10

So the students do most of the work.

1:12

So the students kind of help identify

1:12

what companies that we have.

1:15

They reach out to those companies,

1:15

do all the preparation and figure out

1:18

where we're going to eat. When we're there,

1:19

we organize dinner, very important. We have open dinners

1:21

where we get to meet professionals. So people will come

1:23

and the students get to meet them

1:25

and the students find out

1:25

if we're going to go,

1:28

let's say we're going to Indonesia, right? Right. And the students will find

1:29

that the course restaurants

1:31

that they want to go

1:31

to, professionals want to go to.

1:34

And so they do. They do all of it. that's so cool. Yeah, well,

1:35

that's awesome.

1:38

Yeah. So yeah, so kind of like,

1:38

what is, so it's a course, that's all.

1:41

So they get like student credit for school

1:41

credit for, obviously.

1:44

So but what my understanding

1:44

is that you have to apply

1:46

to also be a part of this course

1:46

100%. Okay.

1:48

So kind of like what's the application process and like the timeline and the expectations

1:50

for those applications.

1:53

Okay. So so for example, right now

1:53

we're in July

1:57

and we're going to be going

1:57

to Switzerland in in winter 2024.

2:00

So that's going to be an end of April. So the applications

2:02

actually came out this morning, July 24th.

2:05

Apply, so yeah, apply.

2:07

So students will apply over

2:07

the next month and a half.

2:10

So applications will be due in September. They have to answer a bunch of questions

2:12

why they want to be on the trip.

2:14

It's part of the resumé, transcript

2:14

and all that kind of stuff. Okay.

2:17

And then and then after that

2:17

we interview a shortlist

2:19

and then after we interview everybody,

2:19

we accept 12 people for the trip.

2:23

Now, when we started the trip

2:23

back at 2017, it was, you know, 12 person

2:26

per trip. But we only had one trip a year. Now we have three trips a year.

2:28

Oh really? So it's like really cool.

2:31

That's so cool. So you guys have one for like,

2:32

I'm guessing like every term then. Yeah.

2:34

Or is it like, no. So, so what the way it works

2:35

is just because we can only do

2:37

one in the fall because of the holidays after the term and we do it,

2:39

the actual trip is after after exams.

2:42

So we do one in the winter

2:42

and then we do two in the spring.

2:45

So for example, this year

2:45

we went to Singapore in the winter

2:48

and this spring we're going to go

2:48

to both Indonesia and Vietnam.

2:51

So it’ll be 36 students that will be like end up going on this trip this year,

2:52

which which is just a fantastic

2:56

learning opportunity. That is so cool. I know like making those connections,

2:57

like on an international scale

3:00

just seems like such an invaluable resource. And the fact that it's like

3:02

getting your school credit for it.

3:04

And think of this

3:04

you're in a board room, right?

3:07

And usually it's fairly senior professionals like managing director CEOs,

3:08

whatever. Yeah.

3:11

And they're just kind of telling us everything they want. They want to make the most of this

3:13

for the students

3:15

because the students have this one

3:15

and a half hour or 2 hours with them.

3:18

And so students can ask anything. They tell us everything and learn

3:19

just so much from.

3:23

It's like it's like it's like a

3:23

once in a lifetime opportunity.

3:26

that's so cool. Yeah, that's amazing.

3:28

I want to do this. So obviously you've been running

3:30

this course for a few years now, So like,

3:33

what has been your favourite destination

3:33

that the course has taken you?

3:36

Ok now because of the fact

3:36

that my ex-students are watching this and,

3:40

and they always ask me all the time. So after we went back to Singapore,

3:41

was this your favourite trip?

3:43

They asked after Germany,

3:43

was this your favourite trip?

3:45

So I'm going to have to say all of them,

3:47

but I'm going to actually break this down, right? So okay, So we went to the UK to learn

3:49

what's

3:52

really going on with Brexit

3:52

and we had so many different interviews.

3:55

So like what? What's an example of one? We met the old secretary of State

3:56

really, Gavin Barwell kind of told us

4:01

a little bit about political situation

4:01

there, but then we go to Hong Kong, right?

4:04

And we we went to see HSBC

4:04

and the iconic building and in Hong Kong

4:08

we went there

4:08

and then through like meeting everybody,

4:10

we learned about like the Belt and Road

4:10

initiative that is going

4:12

is going on in Asia. Then we went to Germany to learn about

4:13

we got to see Deutsche Bank.

4:17

Right? And so First Bank in Frankfurt,

4:18

that was that was like really cool.

4:21

And then through our interviews,

4:21

learn about what's going on in Europe.

4:23

We just went to Singapore, right? So we went to the Port PSA.

4:27

It's one of the leading ports in the world

4:27

and we got like an inside look.

4:29

So it's up to choose one.

4:29

And we did a bunch of virtual trips.

4:32

Don't forget, don't forget that

4:32

we did this during the pandemic, really,

4:35

and we did this virtual trip

4:35

on a regular basis.

4:37

And what we did in the virtual trip because of the fact that it was easy for

4:39

people to say yes to do like a Zoom call.

4:43

So we're like waking up early to interview

4:43

someone in Europe.

4:46

Then during the day we're interviewing

4:46

someone in Toronto, right?

4:49

And then a little later we're interviewing someone on the West Coast,

4:51

let's say in California,

4:53

and then even later we're interviewing someone from Asia. So the virtual trip,

4:55

we got to interview people from around the world

4:57

and learn about that. So I don't want to even just pick

5:00

one of the destinations

5:00

because a virtual trip was great.

5:02

So that is so cool. That's awesome. You guys were able

5:03

to run it through COVID. I know so much stuff got like shut down.

5:07

So it's really cool that you, like adapted

5:07

into like making it

5:10

still like feasible for students to do

5:10

because I know that was probably

5:13

a disappointing thing for students. Not to be able to go now was great,

5:15

and the students are the ones that pivoted, right? The students

5:18

are the ones that kind of lead this trip As soon as are the ones that are getting people

5:19

to sit down with us. So I get 100% of credit to our students.

5:24

I think our students are fantastic. That's so cool that you guys it's like,

5:25

I love that, that it's like a whole planning process

5:27

and like, you get the whole like behind the scenes

5:30

because I feel like a lot of us, when we like, sign up for these conferences

5:32

and sign up for all these things,

5:34

like be a part of like,

5:34

we don't know the back end of how

5:38

like we're getting people there,

5:38

how we're getting everything going.

5:40

Well, yeah, so Sam behind the scenes.

5:40

So what happens

5:42

is actually during the semester,

5:42

so there's actually student teams.

5:46

We have a corporate relations team that

5:46

help us reach out and organize meetings.

5:48

Yeah, we have a meals team

5:48

that helps us basically look at, you know,

5:52

what restaurants that go to an event like that. We have a culture team, right,

5:54

that kind of

5:56

is involved in kind of getting us prepared

5:56

for the culture of the place that we go

5:59

in there. There's also logistics,

6:00

which actually helps us kind of

6:03

get from one place to another

6:03

and figure out how we're going to actually

6:05

organize everything and on the weekends actually. So the way the trip works is from Monday

6:07

to Friday we meet professionals,

6:11

but then on the weekend before and after we do sightseeing

6:12

and the students plan those days.

6:15

So you can imagine all the different sites

6:15

we've seen in these places.

6:18

That's so fun. Yeah, it's like getting like a vacation,

6:19

but also a learning experience in one.

6:23

Exactly. Right. So yeah, I guess it's kind of like

6:25

perfectly leads into the next question.

6:27

So why should students be motivated

6:27

to participate in this class?

6:31

This is like a once in a lifetime

6:31

opportunity, right?

6:34

Like you get to go

6:34

to a different area of the world,

6:37

you get access to senior professionals

6:37

during the day that are basically willing

6:42

to answer any questions you have

6:42

and will tell you things

6:45

from a perspective

6:45

you've probably never heard before.

6:47

Yeah, area. Then at night, every day

6:48

we actually invite more professionals

6:52

to come for these dinners

6:52

where you hear kind of what's

6:55

really going, really going on,

6:55

what's going on off the record.

6:58

Well, yeah, actually. So we had we had one experience in the UK

6:59

where we had a presentation by a company

7:05

and the whole presentation was

7:05

why Brexit was bad.

7:07

And it was like, okay, don't Brexit's bad,

7:07

Brexit is not good, whatever.

7:11

Then that night at dinner, two of the individuals that presented

7:12

were drawn us for dinner

7:15

and then they both voted for Brexit

7:15

and explained their own reasons why.

7:18

And another stood the saying, okay, wait

7:18

a second, what do we write in our report?

7:21

Right? And so it's like it's like you really kind

7:21

of get the behind the scenes.

7:26

But another thing that also students got

7:26

is the ability to make connections

7:29

around the world. Yeah, right. So what ends up happening

7:31

is after these trips,

7:33

some of these firms will actually hire

7:33

our students. Really?

7:36

Which is like really, really, really cool. So you build connections, you get to learn

7:38

what's going on in the world.

7:42

It's it's I wish this experience

7:42

was around when I was a student.

7:45

I know. Actually. That's what happens. So every every time we have these dinners,

7:47

we invite alumni,

7:49

a lot of alumni in these different areas to come out. And they're like, Where was this trip?

7:52

Back when I was a student, I'm like,

7:52

you know, sorry about that.

7:55

Sorry. It's just exclusive.

7:55

Unfortunately not.

7:57

So if I'm a student, I'm not motivated.

7:59

I'm like, okay, so what's going on? Right? Obviously limited spots,

8:01

but keep applying. Yup limited spots but

8:04

keep applying, right? And if you don't make it, we usually give

8:05

you reasons why so that you can improve.

8:09

So we're not like one of those. You know, you're deciding you know, when you have an interview

8:10

and you're like, we write back for feedback

8:11

and then you get ghosted.

8:14

That doesn't happen to me like that automatic reply. It's like, That's not so.

8:16

What I was hoping for, we want our students to improve, right? So we want if a student doesn't get it.

8:20

We actually had a student one year.

8:22

That interview didn't get on and that

8:22

student and came to see me individually.

8:25

We kind of went over what happened and then applied the next year

8:26

and then went on so, that's cool.

8:28

That's so yeah. So we want you to go on. We want you to succeed.

8:31

Yeah, it's like, so please, please apply.

8:33

It's, it's an amazing experience.

8:33

Yeah. No, such a cool experience.

8:36

That is so cool. So yeah. And like, I guess like kind of associating

8:38

with, like, the destination.

8:40

But what's been like, your favourite,

8:40

like, memory, Like a core memory,

8:42

Like the obviously like you were explaining like the Brexit thing. That's so funny. I think that's hilarious.

8:46

But do you have like a favorite memory

8:48

of like, just like, not even just meetings, but like a specific destination,

8:50

like a tour place you guys went to

8:52

or anything like that? I actually actually one of my,

8:55

one of my favorite memories

8:55

actually happened a couple of months ago.

8:57

So, as I mentioned,

8:57

we're going to Indonesia and Vietnam.

9:00

I'm actually flying out

9:00

in a couple of weeks. So.

9:02

Wow. Right.

9:02

So it's pretty it's pretty soon. Okay.

9:05

Now, before every trip,

9:05

we throw a kickoff party

9:07

in Toronto and invite all the past trips,

9:07

that's so fun.

9:11

Right, it is a lot of fun. It is a lot of fun. And so so I remember so a couple of months

9:13

ago, we're throwing our kickoff party

9:16

for Indonesia and Vietnam. And I remember

9:18

being in a circle at the kickoff party

9:20

where there's someone that went to the UK,

9:20

someone that went to Hong Kong,

9:22

someone that went to Germany,

9:22

someone that went to Singapore,

9:25

and then we had people that were just applied

9:26

for Indonesia and Vietnam and just got it.

9:29

Yeah. And I remember going around and everyone

9:30

kind of telling their favourite story.

9:33

And so my favourite story

9:33

was sitting there and listening to that.

9:36

And not only that, seeing the exchange

9:36

right, the pass down of knowledge,

9:41

and also that the connections

9:41

that are being made between the years,

9:45

like I thought it was super cool because a lot of people that went to some of the old destinations

9:47

or graduated now.

9:50

And so it's really you're connecting. And it was like I remember

9:51

I remember sitting there,

9:54

I remember listening to that conversation

9:54

like, okay, this is awesome.

9:56

Yeah, that's so cool. That's pretty cool.

9:59

So like, they get to, like, so the connections that they're making,

10:00

it's kind of like because you are,

10:03

you just kind of like create

10:03

an entirely new opportunity for networking

10:06

because like not only if you're like talking

10:06

to like the current business executive,

10:09

they're going to go for that particular trip. But you can talk to the kids

10:10

that have graduated

10:12

already and are working and they already did those experiences, like it's a whole other

10:14

networking thing now.

10:17

And think of all the people we've met. So we go to we're going to Germany

10:18

to two years after we went to the UK.

10:21

So what do we do? We reach out all the people we met in the UK

10:23

and they're like, No, no, no, this isn't just like a regular student trip,

10:25

but people from Waterloo are amazing.

10:28

You have to meet them, right? And so we end up getting all these people

10:29

that want to meet us, right? We're going to Indonesia, Vietnam.

10:31

What do we do? We reach out to people we just met

10:33

in Singapore, we went to Singapore.

10:35

What do we do we reach out to the people we met in Hong Kong. And the thing is like our students prepare

10:37

so much

10:40

for these meetings,

10:40

so they always impress the professionals.

10:44

So that's one. Another part of my favorite parts

10:44

is as after the meeting, right,

10:47

the students kind of walk a little ahead

10:47

and then I talked to professional

10:50

and they're like all like

10:50

we've never had a student group like this.

10:52

This, this, this is this is amazing. They are the future. They're amazing.

10:56

If we can ever help with future trips,

10:56

we we're going to help with anything,

10:59

right? So, yeah, so,

10:59

so it's just like it's it's amazing.

11:02

Yeah. So I'm curious, like, what specifically do

11:03

they talk about in these meetings?

11:05

Like, is it like kind of like a conference style? Is it kind of like a networking style?

11:10

Like, do they kind of just pick their brain? Like what's kind of like the structure,

11:11

I guess I would say, okay,

11:14

so before each meeting. So what happens is

11:16

before we actually leave Waterloo,

11:19

the each students assigned a company

11:19

and they have to do

11:22

research on the company, right? So what they do is they research a company

11:23

and that in that country,

11:26

the individuals that we're meeting as well as prepare

11:27

and prepare interview questions.

11:31

Okay, So, so so our students are super prepared

11:31

no matter what the format is going to be.

11:35

Yeah. Okay. So now you ask about the format. Okay. Okay. So it depends.

11:38

So sometimes we get there

11:41

and they're like,

11:41

what do we want to talk about for 2 hours?

11:44

Right? And then we just kind of say or tell us a little bit about you, even though we already know,

11:47

and then we go for 2 hours and pepper them with pepper

11:48

is probably not the right word.

11:50

We ask them lots of our thought

11:50

provoking questions right.

11:53

Okay. So that that's one option. Another option is

11:55

they might have a presentation for us.

11:57

So the presentation could be asked like we've had a private equity firm

11:58

that's gone into some of their portfolio companies

12:00

and how they create value. Right.

12:03

We've had another presentation on

12:03

just like more of the economics of,

12:08

you know, Hong Kong versus China. All right. So they do different types of things

12:10

that we that we can do.

12:12

So sometimes they’ll have a presentation prepared, but other times,

12:14

other times there might be a tour.

12:17

So for example,

12:17

we went to Hutchison Ports in Hong Kong

12:19

and we actually went out to the port

12:19

and actually went through.

12:22

Then we went to like the control rooms and stuff like that. It was like super cool.

12:25

And then we also ask questions

12:25

along the way. Yeah.

12:28

So the format is kind of flexible

12:28

on to what the professionals prefer.

12:33

Yeah, but it's a combination of tours,

12:33

then presenting Q&A, like you mention it,

12:37

your guess it and that's what we do. That's so cool. Yeah.

12:40

Because like I,

12:40

I do like the tours for, like the incoming

12:43

students and I just like, I never know

12:43

what like to give them specific details.

12:46

This is like, so gold this is it's gold

12:46

information to talk about.

12:50

Yeah, I it's, it's pretty cool

12:50

because advertising it is such a big thing

12:54

I think that students should really know

12:54

that this is like a huge opportunity

12:57

and a way to get involved. So so actually

12:58

so when I teach my upper classes,

13:01

the students are like,

13:01

How come you never told me about this?

13:04

Right? So it's it's more of like,

13:04

you know, we have,

13:06

you know, we already have a decent amount of people applying, but we have way more people applying

13:08

if they know about it because lot of people after that are like,

13:10

I wish I was available for some time.

13:13

Like, you could have taken it.

13:13

You just had to apply, you could have.

13:15

So but it's like, Yeah, I'm a student. Should have, could have, would have,

13:17

I know what exactly exactly how it is,

13:17

right? Yeah.

13:20

So I guess my good like, I think students

13:20

also just want to get to know you because

13:24

obviously, like, you're a huge part

13:24

of what makes this course so successful.

13:27

So like, are you like what's kind of like your story

13:28

of how you got to SAF as a prof.

13:32

How you got to SAF as a prof, okay,

13:32

so I actually did math at Waterloo.

13:37

Oh really I'm the first year actually double degree so

13:38

yeah back at Waterloo business at Laurier.

13:41

yeah I remember that. So yeah.

13:44

And now we were probably we're a pilot program at the time

13:45

and I did my last two years of my co-op

13:50

at a wealth management firm,

13:50

the Wealth Management went public of the

13:53

one of the partners of wealth management

13:53

had a family office.

13:56

So I ended up working

13:56

at this family office and private equity.

13:59

Yeah, a long story short, I ended up

13:59

starting my own private equity firm.

14:01

I was that

14:01

I end up connecting with the university

14:03

and the university asked me to create a private equity course. So that's how I got into that.

14:07

That's that's a very, very quick version.

14:09

You created your course. That's so cool. So that's my quick version

14:11

of how I got to SAF.

14:13

That's all. Graduated from Waterloo and I came back

14:14

and we love when the alum come back

14:17

and I feel like there's

14:17

so many profs in SAF that are alumni.

14:20

There's quite a lot of crazy.

14:20

Yeah. we love that.

14:23

And they like they have the University

14:23

of Waterloo experience,

14:25

so they know even more, which I feel like

14:25

it's just such an additional perk.

14:30

So ten out of ten, 100%. I think that's the kind

14:32

of all the questions that I had.

14:35

Is there anything else that you want to talk about that like you want it like

14:36

this is what you need to know about this?

14:40

Yeah. So just anybody that's thinking

14:41

of applying, this is what you need to do.

14:45

But before you apply it, talk to anybody

14:48

that has been on the trip taught

14:48

you it's public on where we've gone.

14:51

This school does a great job of putting

14:51

on the Instagram and stuff like that.

14:53

So yeah, talk to someone who's gone to Indonesia,

14:54

Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, Germany.

14:58

You can talk to any of the students

15:01

that have down there, including the virtual course, talk to any of the students that are on the course

15:03

and ask them about their experience.

15:06

That's what you should do if you're like on the fence of

15:07

should I apply or should I not apply?

15:10

They'll kind of give you the details

15:10

and they'll kind of let you know.

15:13

Amazing. Well, yeah, Well,

15:15

thank you so much for coming.

15:17

Hey, thanks for having know. This was amazing. And I hope that this gives some students

15:18

a little bit

15:21

more insight of what the course is like

15:21

and kind of the whole application process

15:25

and how to get excited

15:25

because, wow, that's serious.

15:28

I really want to do this now. Well, thanks for having me so much

15:31

because I love talking about it

15:34

because like every year I come back,

15:34

I'm like that.

15:37

That was just like, so, so incredible.

15:39

Yeah, like, so incredible. Like the information that we got.

15:43

I think. I think actually one thing

15:43

I guess I guess to mention.

15:46

So some of the meetings, you know,

15:48

you get information you're expecting,

15:48

but there's quite a lot of meetings

15:50

where you're like, wow, like,

15:50

I had no idea that that's how,

15:55

you know, professionals in this country

15:55

think about this issue like that.

15:58

I had no idea that this was a perspective on this. It's just like it's like you come back

16:00

and you're like, Wow.

16:02

Yeah. It's just it's like just like you're gaining so much knowledge

16:04

and it's just so cool.

16:07

I did have one more question,

16:07

so hopefully I have one more answer.

16:11

It's the boring part,

16:11

but I know that students ask about this.

16:14

What's the cost of all this

16:14

kind of fun stuff?

16:17

Like I know that like, I know there's like a I talked to Victoria briefly

16:19

about how there's like inclusion

16:21

with fees with students

16:21

and like with that they're like,

16:23

yeah, I'll just I figure I'll leave it to you. So actually so we actually just got

16:29

a good

16:29

amount of donation from our Chancellor.

16:31

So thank you Dominic, for that.

16:34

So now with, with the donations

16:34

from the Chancellor, it's

16:36

less cost for the students. Okay. So students will cover their own flight.

16:37

Okay.

16:40

To get over there. But we now cover accommodation

16:41

and we cover

16:43

the dinners and all

16:43

and a lot of the expenses that we can.

16:46

They're still their own student expenses, but we do we are able to cover a little more

16:48

thanks to our support.

16:50

Oh that's great. Okay. Yeah, because I know that, like, it's

16:51

it sounds like such an amazing trip.

16:54

And I know what students really want to make sure, but we also want to make sure

16:56

that you guys have all the facts.

16:58

And then one other thing. One other thing. If a student, for whatever

16:59

reason, can't afford whatever we

17:02

whatever it's going to be,

17:02

and usually on the application,

17:04

we try to say how much it's going to cost

17:04

if, if a student can't afford that,

17:08

then there's there's different types

17:08

of awards on campus

17:11

and different ways to kind of do it,

17:11

which we will help facilitate.

17:13

But there's like an international experience award

17:13

and other things that qualify for

17:18

when you're doing this. So we try to we try to make it that it's not the cost

17:19

that is is a barrier for people.

17:23

Yes, of course. So don't let it deter you.

17:26

definitely think about that. But yeah, thank you so much. Yeah.

17:28

I just want to make sure I got that

17:28

like the nitty gritty information

17:31

because students are always wondering,

17:31

you know for sure.

17:33

Got to do the budgeting

17:33

of course of course.

17:36

But yes, thank you again so much for coming. It was so great to have you on now.

17:39

Thanks for having me Sam, I appreciate it. Absolutely. Awesome