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from SportsZone. Oh, you dropped it. The shoulder!

1:03

From BBC Radio Scotland. There's

1:05

no substitute. First

1:11

up, we're joined by Celtic supporter, that's Mark

1:13

Brown. Celtic convincing victory in

1:15

the end this afternoon. 3-0 at home

1:18

to St. Mearne. Thanks for joining us

1:20

on SportsZone Mark. It was nervey for a

1:23

while there, but my goodness, what a play

1:25

a riutati is for Celtic. A fantastic goal

1:27

from him today. Hi

1:30

Kenny. Hi Bobby. Hi Tom. Yeah,

1:32

it was a really, really good goal. I

1:34

managed to catch it online. And

1:37

it was very obviously important that we go to Ireland

1:40

the second half. I think that just

1:42

saw actually a team. And obviously was

1:44

it on them and won comfortably by routine.

1:47

How are you feeling about the title this month? Well,

1:52

I think obviously that depending on who you

1:54

support there's a few different ways of looking

1:56

at it. For me, obviously after

1:58

last week's result. It

2:00

was disappointing having been turn off and up and

2:02

then you end up with all the opportunity to

2:04

play in the lodges after the game. The point

2:06

she makes, the players

2:09

coming back and how we

2:11

are improving all the time which I think is right. I

2:14

will get the facts just after this but we

2:16

don't know when they're going to be in

2:18

terms of who they're playing and we know that

2:21

four of those games will be a Celtic

2:23

part I think to our way. So I

2:25

think that there is an argument to the native as

2:27

in Celtic fans of course range of fans will see

2:29

the other way but I think obviously

2:32

you make it simple and you see Celtic

2:34

won all the games in the day by

2:36

night. I think Mark that was if

2:38

you look at the first half I mean that was a

2:40

real game for Celtic today I thought St. Miron if

2:42

anything were the better side in the first half I thought

2:44

St. Miron were terrific which means that Celtic's

2:47

victory over them probably feels

2:50

even more satisfying. This wasn't a

2:53

five or six nil nothing like it but the

2:55

fact that St. Miron put it up to the

2:57

Mahat for 45 minutes Celtic found the

2:59

answers, Hatati scores a brilliant goal Eda

3:02

scores again. Is that seven and eleven

3:04

for him? For an unheralded signing

3:07

in this very controversial January

3:09

transfer window Eda has

3:11

really done his stuff. I'd say it's

3:13

a very pleasing day for Celtic fans. Yeah

3:17

absolutely I think obviously again I listen to

3:19

Green Road does not have the hospital again

3:21

today and probably

3:23

earlier on in the season

3:25

that would be a

3:28

result you'd be looking at and you'd be worried

3:30

about the way they were playing in the first half

3:32

but of course they obviously

3:35

managed to get the result and I think there was

3:37

a conscience about them now so I do

3:40

have to say. Bobby Madden

3:42

is in the studio with us Mark.

3:45

I don't there any specific incidents you

3:47

want to ask him about as a

3:49

Celtic fan that you've experienced or just

3:51

in your general overall experience as

3:53

a fan with Varnow and Scottish

3:55

football. Yeah

3:58

specific I have to say I thought

4:01

Bobby was one of the better referees in Scotland, so I'll

4:03

say that. I had to. Harry

4:05

Kane. I

4:08

speak of the penalty that the Angels

4:11

get. There's arguments that it was and

4:13

it wasn't. It wasn't a penalty. For

4:16

me, obviously, during beating C's, the

4:18

incident, A-Books, Silver for

4:20

diving, what makes

4:23

that incident, what

4:25

causes that incident could be, so it's a clear

4:27

and obvious error. That was an evacuation for Bobby.

4:29

Because if he's done beating C's and

4:32

he makes a decision on it, to

4:35

me, Silver's animated. There is contact. I'm not

4:37

going to say it wasn't a penalty. It

4:39

was a penalty. There's an amount of this

4:41

piece, but what makes it clear and obvious

4:44

error, Bobby? So I think

4:46

the debate is around the contact on the

4:49

ball by Johnson and then the contact and

4:51

then the exaggerated fall, you could say, by

4:53

Silver. So the VR is a difficult position

4:55

mark and I just think

4:58

that the referees are clear and

5:00

obstructed view and then

5:02

he's issued a yellow card for simulations. So at

5:04

that point, you're essentially calling that player a cheat.

5:07

So then I think the VR is a

5:09

responsibility, then have a real review and then

5:11

the VR lands a decision that's a penalty

5:13

kick. I believe it is a penalty kick,

5:15

but what I did say is if

5:18

the referee had maybe played on and didn't

5:20

give a yellow card for simulation, would there

5:22

have been an invention? That's something that's maybe

5:24

worth considering. But for me, I believe there

5:26

was enough there to work a penalty kick.

5:28

But to your point, what is clear and

5:30

obvious? I don't think there's a clear line

5:32

being set within the SFA. There's not a consistency

5:34

being applied in terms of officiating. I think that's

5:36

what everyone needs, that kind of open transparency to

5:39

land on the same line. The

5:41

authorities, not just in Scotland but everywhere, just need to

5:44

remove the words clear and obvious. Because most

5:46

of these decisions are not clear and they're

5:48

not obvious. Absolutely. And I think

5:50

then the use phrase is coming from FIFA

5:52

and UEFA saying the best decision for football.

5:54

So it depends what lines you're watching that

5:57

through, because that decision will essentially split most

5:59

people 50. So

6:01

I think that that's a challenge because to let

6:04

the referees referee the game and only get involved

6:06

with what I'm going to say

6:08

that absolutely clear and obvious, let these 50, 50,

6:11

60, 40, 70, 30s, let them go. And

6:14

so, but that thing was to set

6:16

that bar, where is that bar? And

6:18

then agree that amongst all stakeholders. But

6:20

the problem is though, and so

6:23

if you're supporting a team, if you had

6:25

this clear and obvious thing, and it was a

6:27

penalty for your team and it was just

6:29

a minuscule contact,

6:32

but it was a penalty in a clear and obvious as

6:34

well. That's not clear and obvious play on, but

6:36

hang on, it's proven to be a penalty. My

6:39

team haven't got it. Why didn't you go back to

6:41

VAR? It's a vicious circle,

6:43

isn't it? That's a challenge because everyone will look through

6:45

it as I see their own lens. Yeah. Celtic

6:48

fans were generally by grief last week, you know, and

6:50

Rangers fans will think it's the correct decision, but this

6:52

is a thing. So, let referees referee. And

6:54

I think that's when VAR was being implemented

6:57

in Scotland, they were flirting between this clear

6:59

and obvious and better decision. And I think

7:01

there wasn't real clarity, but I think what

7:03

needs to happen, as I mentioned earlier, we

7:05

say, then it's start the season, take all

7:07

the videos you get from me. If I

7:09

try and find some of the instance from Scotland, say

7:11

this instance, if it happens and it's called the goal,

7:13

we would prefer a penalty kick or no penalty kick.

7:15

And then referee to that standard. That would involve everyone.

7:18

Artificial intelligence, there'd be no referees anymore.

7:20

It's coming, it's coming. Come

7:22

back in the studio in 10 years. There'd be no

7:24

referee. There'd probably be no studio. Well, that'd be good.

7:27

No Kenny Mac and no Tommy. I wouldn't last to

7:29

that point. Anyway, now that we do. I got to

7:31

hear a football fan throughout the country, you're rejoicing. I

7:35

think we'll need to break ourselves after this

7:38

season. It's been a cracking season.

7:40

Mark, just two final things for

7:42

yourself. Your reaction to the news that

7:45

Dyson Maeda is going to

7:47

be out for some time. He was terrific last

7:49

weekend, wasn't he? He

7:51

was terrific. I mean, he's key to self

7:54

express. He's

7:56

a sort of trigger point. I heard some do

7:58

it a bit. Obviously, the

8:00

other side of the game, the call in the

8:03

final ball isn't great, which is totally right and

8:05

they probably had that in the name of the

8:07

beast. I

8:09

think he'll definitely be a mess. I still

8:11

think there's enough there for this to go

8:13

in one league, but there's no

8:15

doubt about it that Jaski

8:17

repeatedly obviously games against Rangers,

8:19

they nullify his tabernet, which

8:22

is important. So, if he's no back, it's for

8:24

the game itself, it's a big part. You wonder

8:26

how that will play out. Do

8:29

you enjoy when it's a really

8:31

close title race? We in the media love it,

8:33

it gives us a story every single week. But

8:35

from a fan's perspective, what's it like? It

8:38

depends obviously on how the season plays out. I

8:40

think when you're so far ahead and then you've

8:44

that league's been gone, it's

8:47

no fun. But I'll enjoy it a lot more if you

8:49

run it. Give us a

8:51

percentage. How are you feeling

8:53

Mark for the title race? Give us a percentage. Oh,

8:58

95%. Very

9:00

good. Okay. Well, Nathan Rodgers

9:02

knows how to get the job done. Home game

9:04

against Rangers to come. It's

9:08

fun in that both clubs have their

9:10

destiny in their own hands. And

9:14

Celtic, even though they

9:17

let a 2-0 lead and a 3-2 lead

9:19

slip away last weekend, the draw

9:22

is a decent result for them

9:24

given that they've got Rangers to come. It's

9:27

a good start. I feel like

9:29

it's going to come down to Celtic

9:31

Rangers game because there's

9:33

loads of important games.

9:37

But if we keep those key players

9:39

fit, it's just about the results now.

9:41

But it's not just going to come down to the game at

9:44

Parkhead. I agree Mark because

9:46

you look at hearts this season, you look

9:48

at Kilmarnock particularly this season, they're

9:50

going to be difficult games for Celtic and Rangers.

9:53

Mark, thanks very much indeed for joining

9:55

us on Sports Zone. Celtic supporter Mark

9:57

Brown there. Time now to get started.

10:00

some Hibbs perspective, some reaction to

10:02

that dramatic late draw at third

10:04

park. It finished mother of a

10:06

one, Hibbs one joined by Hibbs

10:08

supporter Andrew Stoebe greeting to you,

10:10

Andrew. I know you were at

10:12

the game. Talk us

10:14

through the performance, the emotions.

10:16

How are you feeling? Well,

10:20

a couple of months ago I was on the show and

10:22

I said I was sconnered and that's the exact same again

10:24

today, Kenny. First

10:26

half, nothing really in

10:28

the game. I think the wind was a bit of a

10:30

factor. I had a couple of half chances.

10:32

Don't think mother well had much. Second

10:35

half, you know, we get the penalty. We

10:38

have chances to wrap up the game. And

10:41

I think with about

10:43

one minute to go, the guys at

10:45

the game, you know what, the back phone I've actually done all right

10:47

today. And I think I said, I just

10:49

turned around and said, you

10:51

know, I was like, like now now and then they get

10:53

to throw in ball comes in the box. And it's one

10:55

one, but, you know, I just for

10:58

the life of me, I'd love to see the start of

11:01

a how many goals we conceded in the last

11:03

five minutes to cost us points

11:05

and also our kind of shots faced

11:07

to goal ratio, because it just

11:09

feels like every week you look at shots

11:12

on target, one goal, shots conceded one goal.

11:14

I can't help the life of me. You

11:18

know, also words really. And it's just the

11:21

story of the season. I can count so many times,

11:23

so many times that happened this season and almost seems

11:25

like every week. And to stay

11:27

with us because we've had many debates

11:29

on here in recent weeks about the

11:32

future of the manager. Let's now hear from

11:34

Nick Montgomery. He spoke a short time ago

11:37

with a reporter, Janeless. Well, Nick,

11:39

that's a real sore one for you. We saw the

11:41

players emotions at the end. Can you sum up how

11:43

you're feeling? Devastated,

11:45

dejected, you know, 20 seconds away from

11:48

jubilation. The fans were fantastic today. They

11:50

supported us. We got us through the

11:52

whole game. And yeah, we

11:54

faced one shot at the whole game. And that's the

11:56

94th minute. And it's a wonder strike. And

11:59

it's, yeah. It's really

12:02

hard to explain how that happened, but

12:04

it seems to have happened too many

12:06

times this season. One shot on target

12:09

and we can't see the goal yet. I think we could

12:11

have had two or three goals today and the game could

12:14

have been more than over

12:16

way before that incident. To

12:20

the boys, everybody is

12:22

devastating in there. I thought they put

12:24

their heart and soul into that today.

12:26

It's disappointing. 20 seconds away

12:28

from still having a great chance to be

12:30

in the top six. We have to

12:32

reflect on that now and we have to move

12:34

forward. How

12:37

do you reflect on it? You'll know

12:39

what's coming, you'll know that the hips

12:41

are too big a club to be

12:43

in the bottom six, etc. All that

12:45

will come at you and your players.

12:48

What is the reflections from that

12:50

point of view? The reflections

12:52

are over the whole season. I

12:54

came in and the club was

12:57

in a difficult position and I've done

12:59

everything I possibly can. I think the club has

13:01

done everything we can. In January I brought in

13:03

some very good players. Mazzan is our top scorer.

13:05

He came in in February and he scored another

13:07

goal today. We have

13:10

to reflect on it as a club. We have

13:12

to have a reflection on the season.

13:15

Obviously I've been here for probably

13:17

three quarters of it.

13:19

What happened from pre-season to now? We

13:22

can look back and look at all the things

13:27

that have gone wrong and gone against

13:29

us, which there has been plenty. We

13:31

should have won

13:33

the game today. For that reason we had

13:36

one more opportunity today to get in the

13:38

top six. I think we did

13:40

everything possible and I thought the boys were

13:42

brave. We played really well in a difficult

13:44

place to come. A buoyant mother-well side that

13:47

came from Tounel down last weekend to win

13:49

the game. We

13:52

can only look back. We've dropped too many points

13:57

this season from games we should have

13:59

won. Dominated Andrew Michael shoot wasn't too pleased

14:01

with some of the points I was putting

14:03

to him and and terms of a debate

14:05

the hot today and last Saturday we the

14:07

you and terms of the manager. Surreal.

14:12

it as a really difficult one and nine

14:14

speak to the guys in economy will be

14:16

I am Montag. Since then I've seen enough.

14:18

am other one said we can keep soccer

14:21

managers but the same time mccandless keep managers

14:23

because with get sucked among the the past

14:25

them can assume it in between and the

14:27

coldly a day I've seen some starts and

14:29

blossoms you guys in Radio by the my

14:31

opens of things but you know twenty nine

14:33

league games I think is hard eight ones.

14:36

As. Just as as and goodness and

14:38

hundred and or Michael Steele said have

14:40

been progress and everly listen to the

14:42

again debate and spells of games are

14:45

still the has been progress. Bar.

14:48

Is as results at the end of the day and I. Am.

14:52

Questions. Have to be us Nothing that's that's

14:54

the that the the message out public as

14:56

the nice to be seen as christians us

14:59

because it's not enough or I can see

15:01

I'm I can see bits and but like

15:03

most you hundred and six bits and pieces

15:05

of progress at times be up for this

15:07

is not enough is none of progress. On

15:10

that Montgomery's this Mccomb reasons insurance seventy

15:12

four and for three quarters even ducks

15:15

in charge of easy eight percent of

15:17

pins leagues and. Him

15:19

he had percent of. He said he

15:21

as you say eight wins and is

15:23

is not enough like you know and

15:25

I'm finishing Can disagree says this is

15:27

Hibs Rice this hims as was the

15:29

biggest onto the country and he saying

15:32

you know we were we were I'm

15:34

a twenty seconds away from jubilation. For.

15:36

Finishing in the top six. You

15:39

know it costs them about much your that

15:41

that the. Buffet. Them and Aqaba

15:43

to snow said. you know if still times

15:45

today because I've enough to yard at school

15:47

time has to be like right with me

15:49

to got chance you meet again European Sibel

15:51

some hosts you know have been of the

15:53

not even have been a celebration I have

15:55

like Bob and not use the word jubilee

15:57

should absolutely not. as an as I'd say.

16:00

Daughter. She did over. What? What is the

16:02

point of the what does he have to do

16:04

under deserve to win on his games now and

16:06

then have a proper review to see if he's

16:09

worth. Keeping

16:11

safe with a mutually as to when. He.

16:13

Has to in the next five. rice. And

16:16

keep his job. Yes, I think so.

16:18

am not. Yes,

16:20

yeah, out at sea. So if he wants

16:22

a keepers job at a club the size

16:24

I ban and he needs to one and

16:27

that I mean and games and then we

16:29

need to have this. We got blunts. M.

16:32

B. Know it meant amenities come learned in East

16:34

Africa. Get on because has been a competition

16:36

at least two years ago. I got lost

16:38

a forgot air and one of our men

16:40

games and miss Scrape asked him to be

16:42

scraped Osborne I guess I could. Another loser

16:44

registration A she wasn't a great game and

16:46

of gunshot though the cowboy hat or why

16:48

but it was a carbon monoxide on the

16:50

the apple superseding wasn't an astronaut know as

16:52

even yes he leave it needs it needs

16:54

an incredible for us to the season five

16:56

once again that of thing as a particular

16:58

five one source called the So on and

17:00

again looking at teams around you know. Out

17:02

of your suggests not be as twice a

17:04

season. When I said obvious once Ross code

17:06

yeah think the steel to be the season

17:08

Maybe become. If. He wants

17:10

am so. That. Doesn't get a

17:13

great confidence that would actually go out on a

17:15

five months ago to go on a spot. That's

17:17

what he would need to do it for me.

17:19

Said to stay in post and can end of

17:21

season he and I have as of the canal

17:23

and on Toma as a substitute. Know this husband

17:25

in a few today but apply the kickoff today.

17:27

Had hinted scored more goals and

17:30

hearts. But. Of twenty one points

17:32

behind an all guys have been sin

17:34

and and to be seen The fans

17:36

of the same as been So Lobbies

17:38

for so long know. That descends

17:40

need address not no older than that

17:43

when com is definitely not. Be.

17:45

Go to ask why something wasn't

17:47

chains the i'm generally no one

17:49

does. This is a couple appointed

17:51

to move here for civil war Wasn't

17:54

that they they signed and the

17:56

signed well in terms of offensive

17:58

players. why it

18:00

was clear to the dogs

18:02

in the street, Hibbs problems, why didn't

18:04

they do anything to address that in

18:06

personnel terms in January? And B, why

18:09

hasn't Nick Montgomery improved

18:11

the defenders that he has? Like

18:13

he's allowed... It's not just down to, oh,

18:15

well, we don't like our defenders, let's bring

18:17

in some more ones. What about improving the

18:19

ones that you have? And he hasn't

18:21

done that. That's a big one for me. It's,

18:25

you know, personnel is one thing, but I

18:27

always think, do you actually see a team

18:29

making improvement in terms of their structure, position

18:31

and possession of things? And out of possession,

18:33

I think we're so easy to play against

18:36

and that would come down to the

18:39

manager. But this is the thing

18:41

about defenses has been going on for years.

18:43

Cause I'm pretty sure Jack Ross came out

18:45

and made it quite public that he wanted

18:47

defenders and he got given, I think

18:50

two players on loan, but he came out years

18:52

ago and made this so clear what he wanted.

18:55

And he wasn't, he wasn't backed. It's been going

18:57

on for some time and it was clear to

18:59

everybody, especially this season that

19:02

we needed defensive reinforcements. We got one in

19:04

and I think he was already signed, already

19:06

signed on a loan injured and went back

19:08

the following week. And we were left with

19:10

the exact same defense that we had. And

19:13

that was back in kind of January there.

19:15

And so... Andrew, were you at Easter

19:17

Road last week for the St. Johnson game? No,

19:20

I had a wedding that day, but I

19:22

got updates and things, you know,

19:24

throughout the game. And it was, yeah,

19:27

you know, two goals faced, two

19:29

shots faced, two goals. Yeah,

19:32

but I'm just wondering, you know, cause Bobby

19:34

Marden's in the studio today. I've been interested

19:36

to hear your thoughts of what

19:39

your fan experience of being at a game

19:41

with VAR, haven't sought but atation. Hips

19:43

have been hard done by starting to come in. They

19:45

have. Well, I'm going

19:47

back to that one last week when that was

19:49

a sore one losing at St. Johnson. But, you

19:52

know, Bobby, I know you think there must have

19:54

been evidence, but I was in the studio with

19:56

Michael and we both agreed that hips

19:58

should have been apparently when they keep their... seem to

20:00

wipe out Mercondes but you think there must have

20:02

been something. We haven't seen it though. No but

20:04

that, exactly. The images that I've been presented with

20:07

that everyone's seen in sports and it looks a

20:09

cast iron penalty. Yes. So why

20:11

would there not be intervention? That's what just makes

20:13

me think the ball has landed outside the penalty.

20:15

There must be evidence there from a different camera

20:17

that shows contact by the goalkeeper but that's why

20:19

there's every need to step up and share that

20:22

information if that is the case. Well

20:24

that's, I was suspected if that was the case

20:27

and there was that information we'd know about it

20:29

by now. They'd let it be known. They'd show

20:31

us even privately here's why this

20:33

decision was made. The fact that there's

20:36

no evidence or no evidence

20:38

has been relayed. It's probably

20:40

because there's no evidence. Andrew?

20:43

I'm just going to say in terms, we talk all

20:45

day about VR and different sports and how they do

20:47

it but for me all of this just

20:49

comes back to us as people

20:52

on the stand, people watching

20:54

the game on TV, probably you guys in the studio. We

20:56

do not get to hear what is said between the

20:59

person in the studio and the referee. If

21:03

we get a little bit of communication there from the

21:05

person in the VR room and it can away that

21:07

back to the referee then we know what the decision

21:09

is and I think it's a lack of communication which

21:11

then enforces all of us that have

21:13

this massive debate. There must be evidence

21:16

or there must be this, well why

21:18

wasn't that penalty given or why whatever

21:20

it is we need. For me in terms

21:23

of experience we need to hear what this communication

21:26

is going on between referee and person in

21:28

the studio to understand what is going on.

21:30

Totally agree Andrew. I think it needs to,

21:32

it's twofold. I think you need

21:34

to, there's a major focus needs to be

21:36

on improving the fan experience in the stadium

21:38

and then to supplement that is further information

21:40

being released during the week so I think

21:42

there's a massive opportunity with the new header

21:44

referee. Right, let me ask you this, I

21:46

don't expect you to, you're not going to

21:49

name a game right but in terms of

21:51

releasing this audio, have you heard audio from

21:53

the sessions, contentious decisions that have been made

21:56

that gave you cause for concern? Because

21:58

I have. don't ask

22:00

for the audio because I don't want to put

22:02

any of my friends are still actively involved in

22:04

plays but what I can say is there's been

22:07

three old film games this year and there's been

22:09

contentious decisions in those audios weren't shared between the

22:11

match officials. I know that the

22:13

incident that we're talking about Easter Road last

22:15

week the audio wasn't shared between

22:18

the match officials so there's an

22:20

issue there that if we can't trust their own group

22:22

of officials to be aware

22:25

of conversations, audios, decisions, how can

22:27

the referee and body move forward,

22:29

how can Scottish football move forward

22:32

so I think that that's in

22:34

spartan. Do you think there is

22:37

a part of the referees and the SFA cover-up

22:41

is not the right expression but just a

22:43

kind of suppression of bad news? I think

22:45

the nervousness of we release that audio and

22:47

there's maybe someone's purely communicated or they've not

22:50

a right decision or they've not followed the

22:52

protocol you know but I think you know

22:54

it needs to be heard and then everyone

22:56

will win together but that's where I am

22:58

on it. Andrew thanks very

23:00

much indeed for joining us on Sports and

23:03

Hib supporter Andrew Stobe there on his way

23:05

back from the game I think a thousand

23:07

Commandant fans on the way back from their

23:09

game in Perth beating St.

23:11

Johnson by two goals to the old

23:13

Craig Levine side just four points above

23:15

County in that playoff spot at the

23:18

bottom as Derek McInnesy's team go from

23:20

strength to strength with European football very

23:22

much in their sights Derek

23:25

all round a great result today.

23:27

Absolutely you know we spoke last week

23:29

prior to the first

23:51

and Johnson and I thought we really imposed ourselves

23:53

in the game you know we spoke about anticipated

23:55

St. Johnson going with her time and I thought they're really

23:58

effective at that last time out here against St. Dundee

24:01

and as a consequence we went

24:04

with an extra material that they've been

24:06

watching as I said to instead of Robbie Dees and

24:08

I thought we needed that and I thought we got

24:10

a good element of control I thought we went side

24:12

to side really well

24:15

I thought Danny and Matty were

24:17

really influential with management

24:20

through one-on-one, killed ourselves, had a chance, Matty's hit the

24:22

bar, we had a great bit of imagination and

24:24

Joe scores which effectively was a good strike, he

24:26

was moving good to come back on and get

24:29

in front of his marker and the

24:31

wrong thing I said at half time we were probably

24:33

a bit disappointed not to have more from the chances

24:35

we created and we all just spoke

24:38

at half time that St. Johnson was just going to roll over, they

24:40

were going to have a response and I thought they were better than

24:42

us at the second half and going

24:44

to tell you a bit of worse weather, the wind got really

24:46

up and the rain came in and it was

24:48

a tough 20-25 minute watch for me and

24:50

that started the second half, I thought we gave away

24:52

too many fills, I didn't think we'd go to the

24:54

break of the ball enough and I

24:56

thought Rory and Brad coming on gave us a real

24:59

injection in there and we started to play in their

25:01

position half a bit more, we started to turn the

25:03

ball over, we started to get a wee bit more

25:05

pressure and thankfully we get the second goal from the

25:08

back of that so a great goal for Marley, Robbie

25:10

D's a lovely head of batter cross, no one can

25:12

score and once we got the second goal allow

25:15

yourself to enjoy the last part of the game and

25:17

great support, great numbers up getting behind

25:19

the team, we all know the importance

25:22

of supporters and players alike about the

25:24

importance of getting three points and

25:26

we're not sure that doesn't guarantee anything, it's a huge

25:28

step forward in terms of what we were to achieve. Derek

25:31

McInnes here Tom, so Celtic 78 points,

25:33

Ranger 74, the two games in

25:35

hand, Hart 62, Kamanic

25:38

51, Simeon 43, the top six

25:40

now complete and Dee on 40

25:42

points, I've said it before and listen,

25:45

it's quite simply the case of a

25:47

good manager doing a good

25:49

job, he's got so much experience now

25:51

down at McInnes, he's built a really

25:53

good team now, a good manager

25:56

doing an exceptionally good job, Kiliyevonilostaric

26:00

Rangers in the league this year. The only

26:02

teams have lost as Rangers and

26:05

he has built it not just a good team

26:07

a good squad. Kevin Van

26:09

Veen plays two minutes today. You know this is

26:11

a prolific goalscore he can't get in this team

26:14

because there's a lot of goals

26:16

Armstrong, Fissell, Marley

26:19

Watkins who's been reinvented nine league goals

26:21

now for him. I look

26:23

at and I think Kilmarnock the

26:25

strongest fourth place team in this

26:28

league that I can remember. You

26:31

look at results against expectation and that's how

26:33

I judge these teams results

26:36

against expectation. Kelly

26:38

have got a lot of results against expectation

26:40

this season. The beaten Rangers, the

26:43

beaten Celtic in the league cup, the beaten Celtic

26:45

in the league, the drawn against Celtic at

26:47

Celtic Park. They have won

26:50

a lot of games, they've scored lots of goals. I

26:52

think they've had an outstanding season. I can't remember a

26:55

team that's finished before that and they may well

26:57

finish, probably finishing fourth. They're not going to catch

27:00

hearts. I can't remember a

27:02

better one. And they're going to

27:04

get European football. That's all

27:06

but certain. Bobby I'm always interested, we can speak

27:08

myself in Tom of what it's like to deal

27:10

with managers, players from a media

27:12

perspective. Derek's great to deal with. I

27:14

have to say I've always enjoyed interviewing

27:16

him. For my referees perspective what's he

27:18

like? I always found Derek and Tony

27:21

Doc very very fair. You know

27:23

that like most officials

27:25

they can become animated managers, coaches because they want

27:27

things to go their way and there's a frustration

27:29

involved and you accept that to the referee. The

27:31

big thing is you might have a disagreement but

27:33

next time you have a match and you happen

27:35

to meet each other you move on from that

27:38

and absolutely Derek and Tony Doc would be the

27:40

same. I always found them very good to deal

27:42

with and I think the

27:44

situation Aberdeen and how he left, I

27:46

thought people wondered where maybe Derek's career

27:48

would go but I think he's turned

27:50

commander back around. I think nobody can

27:52

disagree with that on beating in five.

27:54

Really informed team very well organised so he's done

27:56

a great job and then you wonder will someone else

27:58

come back in for them. I

28:00

think about the Kelly fans up there today.

28:03

So well done to Derek McInnes and his

28:05

command team. We heard from a Hibbs fan

28:07

earlier. Let's get some motherly reaction to the

28:09

game at third part. We've been joined by

28:11

motherless supporter Kevin Torrance. Good evening to you,

28:13

Kevin. I know you were at the match.

28:16

My goodness, what an ending there. Yeah, I

28:18

was at the match and to be honest,

28:20

it was a terrific strike from Shane Blaney,

28:22

but I think that the West really spoiled

28:24

the game. It spoiled the occasion, to be

28:26

honest with you. I

28:29

think maybe Hibbs, the edge, probably the first

28:31

half, but the second half, they

28:33

had the more chances, but never really looked like scoring.

28:35

I don't really think they've got much of a cutting

28:37

edge, to be honest. But I think

28:39

I point. I'm happy with it. What

28:41

are your thoughts over all, Kevin, on the job

28:44

that Stuart Ketuil is doing? Do you

28:46

know something? I'm sitting listening to you here. Can I

28:48

just say one thing? Bobby Madden here, I think it's

28:50

brilliant. You've got a referee on. Bobby,

28:52

just one thing, just to be off-tact of

28:54

it. You'd be remiss every mother will find

28:56

it like Natasha, the same thing. Brilliant.

28:59

Right, go for it, Kevin. Bobby,

29:02

where about St. Mother, or was it you get a

29:04

kicking, or you get dumped by a

29:06

bundling mother, because it affected you ever more. I've

29:09

done any kicking, but I have lost a few. Your team's

29:11

in front of us over the stick. I

29:14

think most clubs feel that if you've been wrong in

29:17

some decisions, it's just us, I suppose, how they

29:19

are perceived. I've got a lot of

29:21

time for Mother just down the road to me. Bobby's a good

29:23

referee, would you not? Fair referee.

29:25

Charge me again, Kenny! Think

29:28

that's our bad line, I guess. Kevin, talk to

29:30

us about the fan experience of VAR. What's

29:32

it like when you're in the ground? Garbage.

29:36

And I think I speak for the most of the

29:39

feet-paying people who go and watch the game. It's destroyed

29:41

the game. Every time there's an incident,

29:43

I think, do you know something? I

29:45

was at a Ross County game, there were six

29:47

goals, and at the Fudd Park, three each, every

29:50

goal was checked on VAR, and something that

29:52

was just not necessary, it was obvious for

29:54

goals. But I just feel as in the

29:56

VAR guy gets involved too much, I don't

29:58

think it should be... in the game

30:00

we should, I think is it Holland or Belgium

30:03

or somewhere has decided that it's ruining the fan

30:05

experience, it's about fans and those guys that sit

30:07

with me who have honestly said I don't think

30:09

we'll get tickets for next year but this isn't

30:11

any fun anymore. I think it was Sweden wasn't

30:14

it? Sweden bought a Sweden review and I think

30:16

that's it when you're starting to turn fans off

30:18

at a sport that they're loving of a 10-3

30:20

years that's a problem and I

30:23

think every league is reviewing how they can

30:25

best use VAR and I think Scotland should

30:27

be no different. Well,

30:29

I hope they can take the 3s so

30:31

they can get a game in Europe, well I'm sorry

30:33

it's not about the little 3s, it's about the fans,

30:35

they can get a game officially that you've got to

30:37

that. No and I think that's a little bit of

30:39

a myth if I'm being honest I think we didn't

30:41

have VAR in the operation myself from William Combe still

30:44

refereeing the Champions League you know so I think that

30:46

you get trained by UEFA, you have your matches in

30:49

at UEFA level. I'll be honest

30:51

I think if we remove VAR from Scottish football

30:53

not just the referees, I think it would make

30:55

us a little bit of a backwater if I'm

30:57

being honest but I think we need to keep

30:59

VAR in place but make better use

31:01

of it. Kevin, do you buy your ticket?

31:03

You're doing it, you

31:05

know I'm a paying fan and it's destroying it

31:07

for me. Listen Kevin you're not alone and that's

31:10

the thing so many fans get in touch with

31:12

the programme and you try not to talk about

31:14

it but you know this week so we'll go

31:16

back to last weekend Tom with some of the

31:18

incidents in here so it's in the studio with

31:21

Michael we had the one we put to Bobby

31:23

the penalty that Hibbs didn't get. Sittin' around fans

31:25

were upset they didn't get a penalty against hearts

31:28

obviously a lot of decisions were made in the old

31:30

film game we could go on we could go on we

31:32

could go on then we've got a strong statement from Aberdeen

31:35

this week we've got fans coming on here now we did

31:37

a thing a good few months ago Tom and

31:39

we put it to all the fans we'd done the 5.30 slot VAR,

31:41

Bennett or Keep

31:43

It. I think everyone said Bennett

31:46

apart from the Celtic fan from Emily who said

31:48

bin the referees keep VAR

31:50

which is what he said but

31:52

Kevin's just representing I think it's

31:54

safe to see what the majority

31:56

of fans are not feeling. Well

31:59

it's funny. Earlier on this

32:01

year, I did a little on social

32:03

media, I did a little poll about

32:06

Farr. Keep

32:09

it, keep it, keep

32:12

it but modify it. And

32:15

keep it but modify it came

32:18

out on top. You know,

32:20

I was surprised with that because I was

32:22

expecting a bit of verdict and a quite

32:24

clear majority. I didn't get that.

32:26

There's about 6,000, 6,500 people voted on that,

32:28

which is a fair old number. You

32:34

know, my problem, I have many, many

32:36

problems with Farr. If

32:38

we didn't have any Farr, right,

32:41

we would still be having all of these

32:43

contentious decisions on all of these debates and

32:46

we'd be saying we should have Farr. So

32:48

we have Farr, we still have all these contentious decisions

32:50

and we still have all these debates, but it's custom

32:52

clubs of fortune. So the only

32:55

thing that's changed is that clubs are out

32:57

of pocket. Yes, there

32:59

are, the incidence of accurate

33:01

decisions has gone up, but you have

33:03

to measure that against what Kevin's talking

33:06

about, the deterioration of the Farr

33:08

experience and you have to say is it

33:10

worth it? Is it a worthwhile trade off?

33:12

And I don't think it is. Kevin,

33:15

a few things to get into with you. I'd

33:19

just like to ask your thoughts first of all

33:21

on Theo Bayer, because

33:23

I think a lot of eyebrows were raised

33:25

when Stuart Ketawheel made that signing. What

33:28

were your thoughts when you heard he was signing for your

33:30

club and what are your thoughts now on Theo Bayer? Well,

33:33

when he, I heard they were signing for Motherwool, I

33:35

said who? That's honest, I did. I

33:38

didn't really know, he hadn't really played many minutes for

33:40

St. Johnson. I've got his seat each

33:42

first four or five games, me and my mate Keith

33:45

and Les will be wood watching and saying this guy

33:47

might be a good hockey player, but I don't see

33:49

him being a footballer. And all of a sudden it

33:51

just changed. He seemed to understand the game. He makes

33:53

some cracking runs and he uses his physicality really well,

33:55

as you've seen against Rangers at I-Drucks. I think he

33:58

gave their two centre backs a runner. And I'll

34:01

credit to the guy actually met him last week and

34:03

I had a chat with him and he's loving his

34:05

time because he's done so well and I'm really pleased

34:07

with him and the manager for sticking by him and

34:09

not listening to the white noise that came from social

34:11

media. It's incredible Kevin when you

34:13

look back at it, I've just looked back at Motherwell's

34:17

early season from September

34:19

to around December. 15

34:22

games without a win in the league. 15

34:25

games without a win and at that stage, I don't know people saying

34:27

oh well you know it's top six, you've missed out on the top

34:29

six. If I said to

34:31

you in December, you're going to miss

34:33

out on the top six but you'll be comfortable in the league.

34:35

I would imagine you'd have taken that in December. Every

34:39

Motherwell fan would have taken it but in the meantime at

34:41

the same time they didn't lose 15 games. No.

34:44

I think they had eight draws in there and what it

34:46

did do is it gave us a real backbone and a

34:48

determination I think. We've managed to come

34:50

behind to get points more than any other team in

34:53

the league. I think that's still the same as of

34:55

today's. So it shows we've got something there. The worrying

34:57

thing for me is with so many players out of

34:59

contract now, for me Stuart Kettlewell's done a terrific job

35:01

and I listen to you guys going on about it

35:03

as a disgrace that Abba Deener and not in the

35:05

top six and Hibs are in the top six. Well

35:08

that's because they signed some really below average

35:11

players. They can spend as much as they

35:13

like. The more difficult job is to manage

35:15

a Motherwell of Daresay at Kegelov units and

35:17

joints. They're the difficult jobs to manage and

35:20

Stuart Kettlewell has done a tremendous job to

35:22

keep Motherwell heads above water. You know, we've

35:24

not been relegated. Well for

35:26

two seasons we've been very lucky obviously with administrative

35:28

things that kept us up. But you've got to

35:31

remember he is, I think, and I know for

35:33

a fact actually, we are the second lowest budget

35:35

in the league. My worry is if Livingston go

35:37

down, which I think they will, I

35:39

think they will, we will then have the lowest budget in

35:41

the league and that's why I think this

35:44

possibility of an investment coming along

35:47

is an absolute must for us. With the Well Society

35:49

also playing a huge part, I think we really need

35:51

that and we could really struggle next year. That's it.

35:54

I was going to bring you on to that Kevin because

35:56

it's a great piece by our colleague Nick McPhee. Good get

35:58

from him, the BBC website. Yeah,

36:00

with Eric Barmack. So as a mother

36:03

of a fan, you very much welcome

36:05

this. I

36:07

do. And I am part of the Well Society

36:09

and I'm actually part of a committee

36:11

to improve the Well Society. And

36:13

I do, there is some negativity in there for some

36:16

people, but we've

36:18

only got 4,000, 5,000 fans. We've

36:20

only got maybe 3,800 in the Well Society and they're not

36:24

all paying in every month. I

36:27

think there's half of that paying in. We

36:29

need to accept and you need a hybrid

36:31

model moving forward. And if the guys get

36:33

good intentions in mind, we don't want to

36:35

see another scenario where John Boyle was a

36:37

weather merry dance partner in my opinion many

36:39

months ago. We don't want to see that,

36:42

but we need someone who sounds like they've got, I mean, imagine

36:44

mother will, someone from Netflix, his

36:47

wife worked for YouTube, Snapchat. I mean,

36:49

it could really do something special

36:51

for mother. And like every mother of a fan,

36:53

I don't want to shoot the daddy throwing millions

36:55

at us. I just want to see the club

36:57

in a much better position. And when he's 10

37:00

years over or the investment's over, he comes out

37:02

happy in the Well Society and in a much

37:04

stronger place because we don't have the numbers at

37:06

the minute. And I think it's a tremendous thing

37:08

for us as a club and it goes ahead.

37:10

He does sound in fairness, very

37:13

much respectful of the Well Society,

37:17

very much in tune with the sensitivities

37:19

around this, very much aware

37:21

that some people might see him as a

37:23

kind of fly by night or Netflix. He's

37:25

very much, he's got a lot of self-awareness

37:28

about this, which I found, even though there

37:30

wasn't a lot of information coming from him,

37:32

but there's probably reasons for that, I found

37:34

his whole manner quite

37:37

impressive. Yes, quite exciting times.

37:39

Oh, yeah, of course. Kevin,

37:42

thanks for joining us. Stay tuned, Kevin. We're

37:44

going to hear now from your manager, Stuart

37:46

Kettewell. Stuart, well,

37:48

we saw the players' emotions at the end there. I

37:50

mean, they gave it their very best right to the

37:53

very end, didn't they? Yeah, I

37:55

think you've seen it for both sets of players, Jane,

37:57

to be honest with you, how much it meant to

37:59

them. What was at stake? today what the opportunity was.

38:01

I think you've seen 22 players on the ground at

38:03

the end of it. We pulled so much into it,

38:05

I'll not lie, I'll not try and tell you that

38:07

it was a classic game of football and that there

38:10

was loads of quality on show because I wasn't. I

38:12

thought sometimes people need

38:14

to realise how challenging the conditions are. I

38:16

think even sometimes the 10-yard passes were starting

38:18

to go astray with the wind. But

38:21

that said, I thought that we pulled absolutely

38:23

everything into the game that we could. I

38:25

want better quality. I want to play better.

38:28

But the bit that still makes me as

38:31

proud as I am is the fact that they

38:33

give it everything until the very last whistle there. We

38:35

scored a magnificent goal to go level and

38:38

at that point we know that we've got to keep trying to push

38:40

and see if we can get back in

38:42

front of Hibbs. We have a big

38:44

chance right at the death last kick of the ball, a

38:46

real good opportunity which I think all

38:48

the shoulders puts past the post. We know

38:50

we had to get results going in our

38:52

favour of other ways but we set that task

38:55

to try and win it. A little bit disappointed

38:57

we came up short on that front but I

38:59

can never question their application or desire. It was

39:01

first class again today. From my side of it,

39:03

what we have done since the turn of the

39:05

years galvanised ourselves, the additions have helped us, strengthened

39:08

us and if we

39:10

get top six, we're punching well above our weight. I

39:13

think everybody knows that through the financial side

39:15

of things. But for us

39:17

to sit here now at bottom six, the task becomes

39:19

simple. I moved on very quickly there with the players

39:21

and they might not want to hear it. What opportunity

39:23

do you have now? You need to go and try

39:26

and finish top of the bottom six. Football

39:28

from sports side. No, you're dropping the

39:30

shoulders! Oh! Oh,

39:32

BBC Radio Scotland. There's no

39:35

substitute. Hugh

39:40

and Keterl there now. Dundee have sealed a

39:42

place in the top six. Their goal is

39:45

to draw a weight Aberdeen enough after that

39:47

late drama at third part.

39:49

We've been joined by Dundee supporter Ian

39:52

Small. Good evening to you Ian,

39:54

you must be absolutely delighted tonight.

39:56

I'm absolutely over the moon, quite honestly,

39:58

the last five. five minutes was

40:01

a bit tense, but not absolutely

40:03

delighted for all the players and

40:05

staff. I mean, I think Tony

40:07

Dokstana, phenomenal job

40:10

really in his first season. And, uh, you

40:12

know, the players have had their ups and

40:14

downs. It hasn't been fantastic all

40:16

season, but to finish in a top six, I

40:18

think most, most

40:20

fans having been promoted last

40:23

year would have expected probably a

40:25

best to survive, but to get

40:27

into top six really is beyond all expectations. Yeah, we

40:29

said Eller on, you know, I don't know if you

40:32

heard it was a couple of months ago, I think

40:34

it was maybe June 1 and that's what Tony Dokstana

40:36

joined us in the program. He gave us an hour

40:38

of his time. He was fantastic, very open, very

40:41

candid. And the thing that came through

40:43

that day is how much he is

40:46

loving the challenge there, but he spoke a lot

40:48

in about the recruitment, how key that has been

40:50

the club of back to him. He's made some

40:52

really astute signings, hasn't he? Yeah.

40:55

And he's done very well in a loan market.

40:57

I mean, I was looking at the squad again

41:00

yesterday, 10 of the

41:02

main, uh, first team squad

41:04

or loanees, which is

41:06

great recruitment. And some of them

41:08

have been fantastic standout players, Alexa,

41:11

and Beck, back, Yoko's contributed goals

41:13

and assists. Um, but

41:15

that also means that at the end

41:17

of the season, there's a little bit

41:20

of a problem baked into the squad.

41:22

Uh, we'll lose a lot of main

41:24

contributors, but his recruitment's been first-class. He's

41:27

been backed financially by putting some really

41:29

promising players like Lib McAllen, allow

41:31

Cameron on longer contracts, um,

41:35

up until the end of 25, I believe. So, you

41:37

know, that that's great, but you know,

41:40

we're going to have to invest more for

41:42

next season and the expectation now we've

41:44

hit top six will probably

41:46

mean that, you know, we're going to have to try

41:48

and at least reinforce that for next season. And where's

41:51

that money going to come from? Yeah.

41:53

I think, um, I think Ian, Dundee

41:55

have done, I've done really well, really

41:58

well to make the top six. Um, for

42:00

a club just to be parachuted into the league

42:03

and to finish top six is

42:05

Tony Dokk's absolute credit. There

42:07

are nuances to this and

42:10

you raise one of them yourself. So

42:12

many lone players, so many,

42:14

there's 11 lone players at the club.

42:16

I think eight of them played today,

42:19

had game time today. That's

42:22

fine if you can keep the bulk of them but

42:24

I'm not sure Dundee have the

42:27

money because you look at

42:29

the they announced 2.8 million losses during the

42:31

week for 22-23. Yeah. Wage to turn over has gone up to

42:34

95% from 65% which is worrying. So

42:42

they have this problem with they're going to have to

42:44

invest money in their pitch. They're going to get a

42:46

fine from the SPFL. So it's

42:50

inevitable. Part of that I'm sure will

42:52

be suspended depending they do

42:54

their work on their pitch or else the

42:56

sword of Damocles will come down with them

42:58

financially anyway. So they have a

43:00

lot while this is you got to smell

43:02

the roses while you

43:04

can and this is a smell the roses day

43:06

you made the top six and it's excellent but

43:09

there's a lot of work to be done. There's

43:11

a kind of short termism about Dundee this

43:13

season and they've won like you

43:16

know for a promoter club to get

43:18

top six is really good but again nuances. They've

43:21

won 10 games.

43:24

Seven have been against the bottom three

43:26

clubs. I can think of a

43:28

lot of league goals lost as well winning

43:30

positions. Loads of them. Yeah. I was going

43:32

to say that I mean we've probably thrown

43:35

away 12 to 15 points in

43:37

the last 15 games. Yeah. We've

43:39

been ahead you know 2-0 up last week

43:41

threw it away against mother

43:43

well. We've done that more than once

43:45

and that's been our Achilles heel this

43:47

year really. We've been in winning

43:49

positions. We've been ahead by a goal in

43:51

the latter stages of games and lost at

43:54

2-1. Really frustrating and that was

43:56

a bit of naivety in there personnel

43:58

changes some injuries. people

44:00

alluded to the loss of going back, which

44:03

was quite big over the turn of the,

44:05

in January coming back fantastic. Then he got

44:07

injured. So I think there is

44:09

a short term as in the, but Tom, I would say

44:11

that's true of a lot of clubs

44:14

outside of the old firm. You know,

44:16

there are lots of clubs relying on loan players. You

44:18

know, we've passed got more than, but

44:22

it's a feature of Scottish football because the money

44:24

simply isn't there. We wouldn't be able to afford

44:26

the likes of Owen Beck or any of the

44:28

lads that we've been quite astute

44:30

to do that partnership with Burnley. So we've

44:32

been able to get really good

44:34

players in like this now.

44:36

Those wouldn't be happening if we hadn't been astute

44:39

enough to put that kind of partnership in place.

44:41

I think what it does, it's credit to Tony

44:43

Duchaty's contacts and his ability

44:45

to get these players out of big clubs

44:47

in England to Dundee because

44:50

I'm sure Owen Beck would have had other

44:52

offers to come. But Tony Duchaty has got that, you

44:54

know, and Beck is outstanding player.

44:57

What he's been able to do is

44:59

through personality, I think his relativity, which

45:01

comes out very, very clearly in

45:04

the media, but clearly with the players, he's been

45:06

able to convince people like Owen Beck, who, as

45:09

you say, will no doubt

45:11

have had lots of offers that he

45:13

could have taken. But he came back to Dundee

45:17

and ultimately, you know, that is

45:19

down to force a

45:21

character, I think, by Tony Duchaty. And that's

45:23

great. And that bodes well for next season

45:25

and in the close season. He has improved

45:28

players at the club

45:30

already. He's coached them. We talk about...

45:32

That's a good point, Tom. You made

45:34

that air in terms of Higgs. About

45:36

Higgs. Higgs not having improved their defenders

45:38

particularly. Well, Tony Duchaty has improved his

45:40

players. Numerous players in there are better

45:42

players now under his coaching than they

45:44

were previously. You talk about a

45:46

lot of camera and you talk about Luke McCown

45:49

as the obvious one. Let's focus on him, Tom. He's

45:51

had a brilliant season. Because actually, we put the question

45:53

out last weekend. I'm wondering who your player of the

45:55

year would be at Dundee. But in terms of player

45:57

of the year in Scotland, we put it to pundits.

46:00

last week who had won that and you

46:02

know Lauren Shanklin was overwhelming name that came

46:04

to the fore there but we also asked

46:06

the guys as we did last season for

46:08

almost an honorable mention someone that's had a

46:11

terrific season for the club but realistically they're

46:13

not gonna win it and actually looking back

46:15

on the list Jim Duffy and Rory Loy

46:18

both went for Luke McCowen who would be

46:20

your player of the season for Dundee? Well

46:23

as their ex Dundee men both of the

46:25

guys you've just mentioned I'm not surprised they

46:27

brought Luke McCowen into the discussion but realistically

46:32

over the players outside of

46:34

the fashionable larger clubs Luke

46:36

McCowen has to be one of the top five standouts

46:39

in the league I watched him play for

46:41

the first time in a preseason friendly at

46:43

Strand Raar not long after he joined the

46:45

club under Gary Boyer and

46:48

he was nimble quick lively positive

46:51

player a bit raw but

46:53

I thought he's definitely got promise and you could see it

46:56

head and shoulders above most of the people on

46:58

that pitch and he's

47:00

really come on in stride and I think Tony

47:02

dot has really helped him flourish and most

47:05

of the positive play that comes through the center

47:07

of our part and certainly from the dead ball

47:10

he's a massive threat and

47:12

he does different things he tries different things

47:14

he doesn't always come off you

47:16

know he was a bit guilty last week of giving the

47:19

ball away for the third mother well goal in

47:21

his own you know yards in

47:23

front of his own box but you know

47:25

that that's a minor error in what's been

47:27

a really fantastic season so I'm not surprised

47:29

to see him mentioned as one

47:31

of the nearly men of the league if you know I

47:33

mean yeah no he's been terrific you were about to hear

47:35

from Tony Daugherty but we have to ask you as a

47:38

Dundee fan what are your

47:41

thoughts on the state of the pitch and

47:43

how your club have handled things well

47:45

I was the other day

47:47

I was watching the first ever game I watched and why

47:49

I'm a Dundee fan was the 1985 one dense park

47:53

annihilation of self-chase it's been downhill from

47:55

there but my first game and the

47:57

pitch was atrocious you know it was

48:00

basically mud. There's

48:02

no getting away from it. The state of the dense park

48:04

pitch is a deep

48:06

embarrassment for everyone involved with the club

48:09

directors players fans.

48:12

It was one of the best pitches in the

48:14

league for many years. The Robertsons who were suspended

48:16

and then dismissed you

48:18

know Brian Roberts and senior had been

48:20

there 40 years. Fantastic pitch. They obviously

48:23

made a decision to cut funding that's

48:25

been well publicized. They're not investing in

48:27

dense park and we're now paying the

48:30

price for that and we will literally

48:32

pay the price for it. Probably in

48:34

a large financial fine. I was wondering

48:36

someone mentioned in the in the commentary

48:38

about possible points production. I

48:40

don't think that's possible. No. I

48:42

mean they won't go down that road

48:44

though. Large financial and to be quite

48:46

frank the club deserves that because they've

48:49

neglected to the extent that we're now

48:52

detracting from what would otherwise be a

48:54

fantastic season. We shouldn't be talking about

48:56

a pitch but we are. And I

48:58

fully understand why people are outraged. I

49:00

wonder though if we've been playing St.

49:02

Johnson or Kilmarnock in the midweek

49:04

whether there would have been such a media circus. I

49:06

think because it was Rangers there was

49:08

a hell of a lot of media coverage of

49:11

it. I fully understand it was a bad situation

49:13

but I think it was you know

49:15

a bigger deal because it was Rangers. That's just

49:17

my own. Yeah. I listen to put that in

49:19

some context we questioned and shoot Kettie

49:22

well question whether the game last weekend against what

49:24

other we should have gone ahead. I got a

49:26

message from the referee before that game saying look

49:28

that game should not have gone ahead and he

49:30

felt that he was put under pressure to do

49:32

so. We don't know if that's the case but

49:35

that was certainly a suggestion. Hopefully that game does

49:37

go ahead at Dens and Weds and full coverage

49:39

on Sports and Ian thanks very much indeed for

49:41

joining us. That's indeed supported Ian Smalley. Stay tuned

49:43

Ian. You can hear now from your manager Tony

49:45

Dougherty. Tony job

49:47

done. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm

49:49

enormously proud of the group of players you know because

49:52

I think overseeing you know a

49:54

league campaign over the amount of games that

49:56

you play I think certain teams

49:58

clubs can get to cut face. You know,

50:00

one in three or four games, but to do it

50:02

over a season, you know, speaks absolute volumes of that

50:04

group of players that I've got.

50:06

And I'm lucky, you know, the way they

50:08

work every day, the conscientious nature

50:11

of the way they apply themselves

50:13

every day. I think they've deserved

50:16

the reward today for everything

50:18

they've put in and I'm extremely proud of them.

50:20

I'm thankful for all their applications and it's a

50:22

good feeling to have achieved that this year, you

50:24

know, to be the newly promoted club. And

50:27

as I said before about statistics, 17 of these

50:29

boys have made their playmanship debut at 11 under

50:31

21. You know, for

50:33

them, he put the shoulder to the wheel throughout

50:36

the season. I'm enormously proud of them, as I

50:38

said, and they

50:40

deserve every plot they get coming their way. You

50:43

mentioned how proud you are of the players and how young

50:45

a squad it is. I touched on this before the game.

50:47

If you wind back to the summit, you had to build

50:49

this squad from scratch.

50:51

When you look at all of those things, how big

50:53

an achievement is this? I think

50:55

it's a big achievement. But that's nothing to say, and that's

50:58

for all the people who judge. I'm employed as the manager

51:00

of the football club and it's incumbent on me

51:02

to try and do the best job that I can do every day.

51:04

I've had huge support, had great support.

51:07

My staff, you know, Stuart Taylor, Scott Patterson, Alan

51:10

Combs, Matt E. Castle, Robert Cutely have been fantastic

51:12

every day. I see how hard they work every

51:14

day for the players. The players'

51:16

application, the support for Gordon and

51:19

John Nims has been fantastic as well

51:21

to allow me to recruit that squad

51:23

that's been robust and faced challenges.

51:26

Every week, but made sure that they came through that. So

51:28

yeah, I think it is a big achievement, but that's nothing

51:31

to say. I've

51:33

got a great deal of satisfaction now in that

51:35

final whistle went to celebrate with the players after

51:37

a really, really decent

51:39

campaign. But all I see that started to

51:41

seem when I was recruiting was I wanted

51:43

to be competitive in every match. And I

51:46

think we've been that and more. You

51:48

mentioned celebrating with the players. Great celebrations with

51:50

the fans as well at the full

51:52

time. So you can really see what it means to them.

51:54

Because they've had some tough times over the last few years

51:56

as well. Of course they have. And I think that's, again,

51:58

testament to the players. that synergy between

52:00

the third and the support. And

52:03

the support, I need to give huge credit for. There

52:05

have been so many instances this season when they've got

52:07

us over the line in games, be it home, be

52:09

it away. And I need to give a huge

52:11

amount of thanks to them. And

52:13

I enjoy watching that, I enjoy being part of it,

52:15

because when you get that relationship, we

52:18

find it was important that the fans fell in love with the club

52:20

again. And I think you've seen that. And

52:22

listen, credit till last year, they managed to take it up

52:24

and credit to the staff that got them up last year.

52:26

But hopefully we've taken it on another

52:28

level and we've now reached that goal of the

52:30

top six. I'd say the whole year, it was

52:32

a bit retaining our SPFL status. Once I realised,

52:35

you know, we were close to doing

52:37

that, it was then, we checked the bar again,

52:39

and the players came with me with that. And listen,

52:41

there's now games to go within the top six.

52:44

So we'll tackle that the way we've tackled over

52:46

the next season. But for now, there's just a

52:48

great deal of satisfaction from achieving, from the players

52:50

achieving whatever they can. Well done

52:52

to Dundee and to Tony Daugherty. Plenty more

52:55

managerial reaction to come. We've got an Aberdeen

52:57

fan ready to go. Hearts fans, stay tuned.

52:59

We'll hear from Stephen Naes. There's just a

53:01

couple of messages coming in, Bobby. One

53:04

that you can deal with, one that I

53:06

will deal with. So Ian David Hamilton says,

53:08

did the referee Bobby Madden on Sports Sound

53:11

openly just admit none

53:13

of the rest know if VAR is meant to

53:15

be used only for clear and obvious errors or

53:17

not? No, that's not what I said. I think

53:19

when it was being seen, there was a discussion

53:22

within the SFA, are we clear and obvious? Are

53:24

we the best decision for football? So it was

53:26

probably a lack of clarity there, but I think

53:28

the referees know when and when, not

53:31

when they shouldn't be intervening

53:33

with on field decisions. Right, John Lindsay is at

53:35

Dundee Night is fine. Now John's been at me

53:37

a lot on this, okay? And it goes back

53:39

to something I said in the programme previously. He

53:41

said, Bobby, I'm not going to put you in the spot, okay?

53:44

But I probably am. I

53:46

don't expect you to get into too much detail,

53:48

okay? But so John's tweet reads this. We need

53:50

more transpense. You said that yourself, Bobby, with

53:52

the decisions. Releasing the audio should be done

53:55

for all key decisions. You said that's not

53:57

been happening. There should be detail

53:59

about all decisions. considered by VAR, maybe on

54:01

the SFA website suggests John says it would

54:03

give the fans a better idea of what's

54:06

actually going on and then he's

54:08

put my name, he's put in brackets, Curtis Maine.

54:11

So this goes back to a key

54:13

game when United were fighting relegation

54:15

and Saint Mearne were awarded

54:17

a penalty at

54:19

Tannadise, a controversial penalty. So

54:22

what I said in a programme previously

54:25

was that I had heard the audio,

54:28

I had heard some of what had

54:30

gone on in there and

54:33

what I said was that

54:36

made me feel uncomfortable in

54:39

terms of VAR protocols not

54:41

being followed. I don't expect

54:43

you to give me too much on this, are

54:45

you aware of what I'm talking about? You can

54:48

if you like, you've to. Please feel free. I'm

54:50

aware of the incident, you know, a thing came,

54:53

I've not heard any audio as I mentioned

54:55

earlier from any matches but I think the

54:57

incident you're referring to between Dunne 18 and

54:59

Saint Mearne there was what you would see

55:02

outside interference where I think someone within the

55:04

VOR where the VAR takes place that was

55:06

guiding the VAR and the only person within

55:08

that room that can make a decision is

55:10

the VAR. Yeah exactly, well thank you for

55:12

saying that. John will know and

55:14

he pushes, I get why he pushes me on it but there's

55:17

a limit to what we can say so let's

55:20

move on and let's hear from

55:22

the Hearts Manager Stephen Naismith. Now

55:24

it seems a long long time ago

55:27

that Livingston were toonal up at Tint

55:29

Castle, that of course was followed by

55:31

the fight back from Hearts. Stephen Naismith

55:33

side run out convincing four to Victor.

55:35

He spoke with a reporter Brian McGaughan.

55:38

Stephen congratulations you were made to work hard for

55:40

it though you did warn us all before the

55:42

game that Livingston would be a bit more attack

55:44

minded but I didn't expect him to be quite

55:47

as attack minded as we were in the open

55:49

of half hour. No I knew that they

55:51

have definitely got lots of fights still in them and I knew that

55:53

it was going to be tough but I think the two goals were

55:56

their fault it wasn't any brilliant play it was

55:59

their decision making. slow start and it

56:02

was more we were just taking too long on the ball whenever we

56:04

moved the ball quick enough they were really aggressive with their press and

56:08

we didn't recognise how to beat that

56:10

to start with and that was a problem two

56:13

goals in a bit of a wake-up call and then we'd

56:15

start finding that free player and

56:17

then as you've seen when we attacked and it's something

56:19

I've spoke about is that I wanted this to be

56:21

more ruthless just knowing what to know down.

56:25

You could have been even more ruthless in the second

56:27

half of the week more than the cross-bar kind of

56:29

looked like it was going to be an audible

56:31

home but the ball went sideways but still you

56:33

know were you concerned possibly

56:36

Livingston could get back into the game because they did

56:38

appear to be a bit of frailty at the

56:40

back today. I wasn't

56:42

concerned I felt comfortable but

56:44

I think that's probably

56:46

an area that if it's a tip of an

56:48

immigration like listen I was coming back from two

56:50

and a whole down third time

56:52

we've done it this season that's a positive I've been

56:54

here a lot of times that

56:56

looks as if there's no hope of coming back in games like

56:58

that so that's a big step forward

57:01

but to go even further is when

57:03

you've hurt a team and your four-two up and you can

57:05

see that there's opportunities it's about keeping that

57:07

ten point of game and winning

57:09

by more goals and that's

57:12

me being a bit pernickety but

57:15

I feel what get better and successful and

57:18

you're going to kill these games off. You said before

57:20

the game they're possibly one of the two places up

57:22

for grabs for next week what did you learn about

57:24

your score today that maybe Scott did you had a

57:27

little bit for next week in terms of team selection?

57:31

I didn't think I didn't learn too

57:33

much in terms of individuals and I

57:36

think there was good bits when we played

57:38

them remove the ball quickly we could hurt any team but

57:42

like you said we need to tighten up at the

57:44

back it today wasn't a great defensive showing from us

57:47

but overall the season the defensive side of

57:49

it's been a big positive so hopefully it

57:51

was just a one-off. Stephen

57:54

A. Smith there a great comeback from Hart

57:56

says after this got to get him a

57:58

big boost ahead off the... Scottish Cup

58:00

semi-final next weekend. They of course

58:03

play in the Sunday game against

58:05

Ranger the Saturday one that

58:07

is Celtic against Aberdeen. We've been joined

58:09

by Aberdeen supporter Thomas McIntosh. Good evening

58:12

to you Thomas. What kind of gloss

58:14

over today's game I think. A goal

58:16

is taught. It didn't sound great. Willie

58:18

Miller was there for us but Tom

58:20

English is with me. He brought us

58:23

the news earlier in regards

58:25

to the new manager Tom. So just to

58:27

recap and then we'll get Thomas's thoughts on

58:29

it. Yeah so the story is

58:31

of barring a last minute's hitch. Jimmy

58:34

Tilleen will be the next Aberdeen

58:36

manager. Possibly, not definitely,

58:39

but possibly announced next

58:41

week will start in

58:43

June. So this has been a

58:45

long-running saga as we all know. Jimmy

58:48

Tilleen was one that chased for a long

58:50

time. He interviewed him when

58:53

Barry Robson was interim manager. He impressed.

58:56

They remembered him. He's done really

58:59

good things with Elsberg since then

59:02

and they've got him. I think

59:04

it's a very positive day for Aberdeen. Overall

59:06

I've seen a very positive reaction from your

59:08

fellow fans. What are your thoughts? Jimmy

59:11

Tilleen, no I think it's, I think it's good

59:13

if I'm honest. I haven't looked

59:15

forward to a managerial appointment, fingers

59:17

crossed that it goes through in a long time. Certainly

59:22

from what I've heard, from what I've listened

59:24

to, he comes to a very healthy record

59:26

from Sweden which I think bodes

59:28

well for Aberdeen for a team that's

59:30

really lacked confidence all

59:32

season. I mean

59:35

before I came on I was having a

59:37

quick look back at his time in Elsberg.

59:39

Confess I hadn't heard much about him before

59:41

all the interest was there. Looking

59:44

when he took over in 2018, I think

59:47

they finished the season, haven't scored 20 in

59:49

nine goals and conceding 41

59:51

and each season that's gone

59:53

by after, they've scored more

59:55

goals each season and conceded less.

59:58

So there's You know,

1:00:01

he's made the team very aggressive in their attack

1:00:03

and they almost won the league last year. He

1:00:05

certainly made them more solid at the

1:00:07

back, which again is something Aberdeen desperately

1:00:10

needs. Um, leaking far

1:00:12

too many goals and chucking away far

1:00:14

too many points this season. So

1:00:17

I'm, I'm quite looking

1:00:19

forward, hoping that he, uh,

1:00:22

he, he is, is the man. Um,

1:00:24

but yeah, waiting for him as with

1:00:27

anticipation for that, uh, photo of him

1:00:29

with fair

1:00:32

point. What are your thoughts looking ahead

1:00:34

to the semi final next

1:00:36

weekend? You would think had they been able

1:00:38

to get him in in time, it would

1:00:41

have given the whole place a huge lift. But what

1:00:43

are your thoughts? Get into this game against Celtic with

1:00:45

Peter leaving in charge. In

1:00:48

a way, I'm actually quite glad that Peter gets

1:00:50

the chance. Um, I

1:00:52

think he's done a very good job. All

1:00:54

things considered. Um, considering that

1:00:56

I think he's noticed the staff the

1:00:58

other day that he has 25% of

1:01:01

Aberdeen league wins the season

1:01:04

kind of says it all. Yeah. And

1:01:07

I think it's probably unlikely

1:01:09

that Aberdeen are going to beat Celtic

1:01:11

at Hamden. That's strange. Things have happened.

1:01:13

Um, and I think if Aberdeen did

1:01:15

do it, then I think it would

1:01:17

be a good, um, perhaps send off for

1:01:19

some good credit. That was June four. Peter,

1:01:21

I think he's a tremendous job under the

1:01:23

circumstances. He certainly has. I know

1:01:25

we're running out of time of it here.

1:01:28

Tom, is it a problem with connecting you?

1:01:30

Bobby Madden is with us in the studio,

1:01:32

a very strong statement from your club on

1:01:34

VAR this week. Do you back then taking

1:01:36

that stance? Not

1:01:38

really. I'm honest. Um, I, I, I share the

1:01:40

opinion with Bobby. I think they are kind of

1:01:42

here to stay as where most of the main

1:01:45

European leagues are going. Um,

1:01:47

it definitely needs fixing. Uh, certainly the

1:01:49

fan experience of inside stadiums whenever I've

1:01:51

been abroad, foreign

1:01:53

languages, the VAR calls are a lot

1:01:55

quicker. Take today, for example, although I wasn't at the

1:01:57

game, I did hear that there was a curse. call

1:02:00

it took three or four minutes to

1:02:02

get the decision. Whereas I've been in Seville

1:02:04

Darby's where there's been punch ups and they've

1:02:06

sent off two people very quickly because they

1:02:08

can identify it quickly. So I

1:02:10

agree with Bobby of leaving the officiating to

1:02:13

the officials and perhaps it needs more tech

1:02:15

people involved and investing more in that into

1:02:17

the game. In

1:02:19

terms of the statement that the club put out,

1:02:23

I kind of sometimes I

1:02:25

think it masks a bit of a bad

1:02:27

performance and certainly the game against Livingston last

1:02:29

week was one of many this season. You

1:02:33

get VAR calls that go for you, you get

1:02:35

them to go against you, go back to the

1:02:37

start of the season. Miowski had

1:02:40

a 90 minute penalty

1:02:42

against St Mirren where

1:02:44

it's arguable. He could have touched the

1:02:46

ball twice but it didn't win an

1:02:48

Abrin's favour and they got points. Some

1:02:50

of the calls are marginal, the semi

1:02:52

final against Hibbs, Martin Boyle was

1:02:54

just about offside of memory servicing

1:02:56

well and Hibbs were very much on top on that

1:02:58

game and Abrin managed to go and steal a win. So

1:03:01

I think it's just unfortunate that sometimes it goes

1:03:04

for you, sometimes it goes against you just like

1:03:06

an old fashioned offside call where a

1:03:08

decision doesn't go your way but fingers

1:03:11

crossed the VAR gets better. It's

1:03:16

definitely room for improvement. I think I can agree with

1:03:18

him that. In about 30 seconds your reaction to that

1:03:20

Abrin statement and where we go from here. I think

1:03:23

Abrin as I said earlier, I think they've been frustrated

1:03:25

through the end of the court on

1:03:27

that but I think now they just thought

1:03:29

it was time to really make a statement

1:03:31

because they're not happy where it's going. I

1:03:33

think everyone wants to improve the in-ground experience

1:03:35

and then what happens thereafter. So I think

1:03:38

the correct decision was reached but how they

1:03:40

reached that is probably the one topic that's

1:03:42

open for debate but I really like Thomas,

1:03:44

a sensible football fan. I don't know if we'll catch

1:03:46

on but... Let's hope not.

1:03:48

Thomas, thanks very much indeed for joining

1:03:51

us on Sports on Abrin's support of

1:03:53

Thomas Mac in charge. They're just about

1:03:55

time to get Rangers fan Brian Fotheringham

1:03:57

on the line. Rangers, away it goes.

1:04:00

tomorrow full coverage in sports and on here at 11.45.

1:04:02

Brian, we need to rush through this. I know you're

1:04:04

going to the game. How are you feeling about it?

1:04:07

Not too bad. Obviously the game

1:04:09

at the weekend was, I

1:04:12

felt sorry for come on because his team

1:04:14

selection was probably hampered with players coming

1:04:16

back from injury and like the

1:04:18

likes of SEMA, if he was

1:04:21

like anywhere near he would have started.

1:04:23

So obviously the subs at the

1:04:25

weekend made the huge difference in the game in the

1:04:27

second half because I think that was

1:04:30

even come on admission his worst half

1:04:32

of football he's ever sort of like

1:04:34

the managed. So yeah, really looking forward to it.

1:04:37

We've got a good record up there. So look

1:04:39

at I'm just looking forward to it. Are

1:04:41

you enjoying a close

1:04:43

title this brand? Yeah,

1:04:46

I've been guys of my age have

1:04:48

been through before we've had it and I think it was 0 2

1:04:50

3 and then 0 5. So, you

1:04:53

know, we've had I quite enjoy these because this

1:04:55

is where this is where the players you're

1:04:58

going to see if the players that you've got are up

1:05:00

for the up for the battle up for the title chase.

1:05:03

And it's it'll go right. I believe it's going

1:05:06

to go right down the wire. I'm not I'm not I

1:05:08

don't think any one of the two of them is

1:05:10

going to pull away. And I think that's the form

1:05:13

that they're both in. I think they'll they'll both win

1:05:15

all their games. It's going to come down over.

1:05:17

So that game at Parkhead. So it's

1:05:19

going to be very, very tight. Yeah, listen,

1:05:22

well, not according to the Celtic fan that joined us,

1:05:24

E Litton.

1:05:30

What did he say? Did he say 95%? But you would

1:05:32

expect to see the world through green prison. I mean, you

1:05:34

know, that's that's that's no

1:05:37

shock. Well, do you know what we want? Of

1:05:39

course, Taylor is Brian. Sorry, we've run out of

1:05:41

time here to a few technical question about bar.

1:05:43

Yeah, very quickly. Yeah. Yeah. See,

1:05:46

this is probably aimed at Tom more

1:05:48

than Bobby. See, and rugby, Tom, the

1:05:50

rest of the basically controls the game.

1:05:52

He asks the TMO what to do.

1:05:54

And yes, you know, and do you

1:05:56

feel that the rest

1:05:58

of these in Scotland are certainly should be going

1:06:01

more that route and the referees take charge

1:06:03

of the VAR rather than the

1:06:05

VAR to control

1:06:07

the referees. I think there's a

1:06:09

lot of sense in that Brian

1:06:11

and I think that's something that maybe should

1:06:13

be looked at. I know it's different to

1:06:15

the way VAR is around Europe but I don't

1:06:18

know if UEFA would allow that but

1:06:20

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