0:16

Welcome to another episode of Scouting

0:18

for Growth and I'm absolutely delighted

0:20

to introduce you today to my

0:22

guest, Anika Jackson. Anika

0:25

wears many hats and also with

0:27

an unviable finest. She's

0:29

a mother, community volunteer, philanthropist

0:31

and a seasoned marketing and

0:34

communications professional. Over

0:37

extensive careers, she has

0:39

refined her expertise in

0:42

diversity from experiential marketing,

0:44

public relations to digital

0:46

and influencer marketing. Her

0:49

expensive knowledge and experience make

0:51

her a much sought after

0:53

authority in her field. She's

0:56

also the influential voice behind

0:58

Your Brand Amplified, a popular

1:00

podcast. It is also

1:02

a strategic communication firm, leather

1:05

focused on empowering, celebrating and

1:07

amplifying the real impact realized

1:09

by cost driven businesses and entrepreneurs

1:12

in the world. Well,

1:14

I will tell you that this past

1:17

year, Your Brand Amplified has

1:19

won multiple awards and has

1:21

become a top resource for

1:23

marketeers globally. Today, Anika

1:25

will share with us her

1:28

insights about growth, drawing from

1:30

her multi-faceted experience and achievements.

1:33

We will talk about Anika's

1:36

path to marketing executive roles and

1:38

how to deliver clear financial outcomes

1:41

from marketing activities. What

1:43

works and what works less in

1:45

marketing land when a recession

1:47

hits? What should

1:50

small business owners pay attention to

1:52

grow and scale their customer base?

1:55

PR versus influencer marketing? What's the

1:57

difference? Tips and best practice too.

2:00

from Annika. So let's dive

2:02

in and learn from these

2:04

dynamic professional and wonderful

2:07

woman whose commitment to

2:09

growth is an inspiration.

2:11

It is an inspiration as much as

2:14

it is infectious actually. Please join me

2:16

in welcoming Annika Jackson to the

2:18

starting focus of CAST. Hi

2:28

Annika, thank you very much for joining me

2:30

on Scouting for Growth today. Sabine,

2:33

I'm so happy to finally be here.

2:35

I have been following you and we've

2:37

been connected for so long. So it's

2:40

such a pleasure to actually say yes,

2:42

we're here today. We

2:44

are here today and yes, it has

2:46

been a long time so that the

2:48

listeners can understand. Annika and I have

2:51

been talking probably a year ago trying

2:54

to organize this podcast. Life,

2:57

work has actually come

2:59

in the way and here we are

3:01

today. So welcome on

3:03

Scouting for Growth. But

3:06

to get started Annika, I

3:08

want to know about you, who

3:10

you are, what you do, what are

3:13

things about changes because I know we took

3:15

a year ago. So let's

3:17

just talk about what has happened since.

3:20

Yes, it's

3:23

one of those things that happens in life

3:25

whether it's in relationships or work where

3:28

you get these feelings, you're supposed to be

3:30

going a certain way and you don't listen

3:32

to yourself and you start going, oh no,

3:34

I'm supposed to do this. I'm supposed to

3:36

work for this other person. I'm supposed to

3:38

take this position and we don't have the

3:40

trust in ourselves for our own

3:42

growth and our own projects and what we want to

3:44

put in the world. So that is

3:46

what the journey has been for me over the

3:49

last couple of years. And

3:51

when we first were speaking, I was

3:53

VP of PR and Operations at full

3:55

capacity marketing. I am still VP of

3:57

PR there. Bye. I

4:00

was moving into a trajectory of

4:02

becoming the CEO eventually. And

4:04

over the course of last year, I realized that wasn't

4:06

where my heart was. I love the company. I love

4:09

what they do. I still love working with our

4:11

clients there, who are workforce development and

4:14

education sector. But I

4:16

have been a professor teaching graduate

4:18

level at USC Annenberg for

4:21

PR, for branding, for digital media

4:23

management. And I've really fallen in

4:25

love with working with the students and helping them.

4:28

In the meantime, my own

4:30

podcast has grown so much. We

4:33

were talking about this, having to manage everything. Well,

4:35

I have an ID. Good. Tell us about the

4:37

podcast. Well, I was nominated

4:40

for some awards last year. I didn't win. But

4:42

the nomination itself, I was like, wow, because

4:44

this is up with the big guns. And

4:47

then now I have a top

4:49

0.5% podcast on Listen Notes. I

4:52

have a daily weekday podcast. I

4:55

have sponsors. I'm on an ad

4:57

network. I have

4:59

a podcast that I was invited into. So my

5:01

podcast itself has changed from being once a

5:03

week, maybe twice

5:07

a week, no sponsors, just a hobby into a profession. And

5:11

the growth has been so immense. And I

5:13

know that's what we're going to talk about a lot today, is

5:16

marketing and growth and strategies. And that

5:18

is really what I love. And it's fun

5:20

to see it play out in my own product, not

5:24

just for my clients. Because I

5:26

started as well scouting for growth as

5:29

a hobby. And people need to really

5:31

understand podcasting. It's a

5:33

side hustle. It's not a job.

5:35

It's something you do between five

5:37

and seven for me. And it's

5:39

once a week and finding great

5:41

speakers. And really,

5:43

I guess, enabling an

5:46

ecosystem, people, to actually find the

5:48

nuggets of what they need, what

5:50

they want to succeed. So

5:53

tell Us a little bit, Anika,

5:55

about the World First of Education,

5:57

because you have just mentioned. That

6:00

you fell in love with a the

6:02

getting another puffy so I'm a Vc

6:04

cheek a nunnery the as you know

6:06

Philo. Senior. Philo actually

6:08

of bias business school where

6:11

he's been dead disruption and

6:13

I would be doing Cbc

6:15

corporate venture capitalists investing and

6:17

dad culprits partnership at this

6:19

year. So and a fun

6:21

at great because I am.

6:24

Could seeing educating Let's say you

6:26

know people is executive people who

6:28

are doing their M B A

6:30

while working in a big companies

6:32

see me the really interesting people

6:35

with tell us about your experience.

6:37

Around is. It a sin And marketing. Out

6:40

with as a case and that. Right now

6:42

I primarily and he'd seen in

6:44

the Digital Media Management Master's program

6:46

so. Everything. Changes every

6:49

day with digital eight. A

6:51

I've been around for twenty years but

6:53

only last year did we start talking

6:55

about it and rely and the popularity

6:58

roads for everyone to understand what the

7:00

technology as and start utilized in it

7:02

for marketing or for efficiencies and our

7:04

systems and processes. Silently have

7:06

to keep on top of everything. And when

7:09

I'm working with my students, they come from

7:11

all age ranges some are in their twenties,

7:13

summer in their sixties, and they just want

7:15

to learn. How to manage everything

7:17

that's happening. Because. Everybody knows that

7:19

everything but marketing. Yes, there are still.

7:22

Offline from or saw of you know

7:24

out of home the billboards by a

7:26

lot of it is now digital and

7:28

so if you don't understand how to

7:31

interact with the ecosystem, how to look

7:33

at issues surrounding digital equity, access to

7:35

these tools and technologies, how we can

7:37

help make a positive change and not

7:39

be scared of them. and so we

7:41

talk about that a lot in our

7:44

classes and every student also has a

7:46

capstone and a lot of them are

7:48

doing podcast for the capstone. that's been

7:50

fantastic for me to take my own

7:52

experience. and say okay do this don't

7:54

do that i or to try that one south

7:56

and we've that consider experience and then i have

7:59

now found the market of people who

8:01

want to learn how to successfully build

8:03

their own podcast. And so that's something

8:05

I'm working on right now, curriculum for

8:07

university and also curriculum for

8:10

people who don't just want to make it a hobby

8:12

and don't just want to make it a lead

8:14

generation, but want to actually be able to monetize

8:16

from the podcast itself because of their unique message.

8:18

And that's the way I teach

8:20

Randy and also, I want to teach from the

8:22

inside out, who are you and what is your

8:25

purpose here? So that needs to

8:27

infuse everything you do. And that

8:29

helps you make a better decision on do I take this

8:31

job? Do I work with this person? Are

8:33

they aligned with me or not? And

8:35

that's what I think is feeling

8:38

really beautiful to come into myself more and

8:40

more as I teach other

8:42

people. I find that I'm learning as much

8:44

as I'm teaching. And that's the

8:46

key. We are actually learning as

8:48

much as we are teaching because we

8:51

actually interact with people and people

8:53

have questions. And

8:55

their question makes you think about maybe things

8:57

you have missed out or the gaps that

9:00

needs to be explained in better ways. But

9:03

that is what teaching allows us to

9:05

do. But another point you

9:08

actually made is about purpose and

9:10

being really true for oneself. Right? So

9:13

being clear around why you're doing what you are doing and

9:15

how you are going to put yourself in the marketplace. How

9:18

are students taking that? And you

9:20

mentioned podcasting. Is that the

9:23

new path to growth? Oh,

9:25

yes. I can

9:27

talk for hours about how much I

9:29

love podcasting and what

9:32

I've learned from taking it from a hobby

9:34

into a profession and to a business that's

9:36

now monetized. It

9:38

is the only omni-channel marketing that

9:40

we have these days. You get the

9:43

video content. You have audio content. You

9:45

can create blog posts, thought leadership pieces.

9:47

You can create hundreds of pieces of content

9:49

for social media. Right? So

9:52

there are so many ways to utilize

9:54

each episode, each interaction. Not only that,

9:57

it's business development. Every time

9:59

I'm on a podcast, I'm on a podcast. or have a guest

10:01

on my podcast, not only do I

10:03

learn something new from them, I get

10:05

a new book to read, I have a new way

10:07

to change my outlook on life or on a piece

10:09

of business, but that is another person

10:12

that I can now call on. If

10:14

I say, oh, I have this person who wants

10:16

to do this kind of work, here's somebody you

10:18

should work with, or, oh, the

10:20

student wants to do a project around

10:22

education sector and equity, ah,

10:25

these are the people they should talk to. And

10:27

so it's really this whole

10:29

world, right? I would never have met you.

10:31

I wouldn't meet such amazing people around the

10:34

world if it weren't for podcasting. And

10:36

so I really do believe it is the Big Growth

10:38

Channel. And when I was fully

10:41

focused on just PR services a

10:43

few years ago, I had an

10:45

agency that grew very fast during

10:47

the pandemic. I ended up going

10:49

from myself to multiple employees in

10:51

multiple states across the United States,

10:54

clients, you know, 20 to 30 clients running

10:57

up from charging people $500 a month to

10:59

coming up to 30 to $50,000

11:01

a month in revenue very quickly.

11:03

I scaled so quickly, but I didn't put

11:05

some things in place, right? But

11:08

I also didn't realize, I

11:10

realized a little bit that podcasting was important,

11:13

but a lot of other publicists did not.

11:16

So by going on this journey myself, I

11:19

see that now they need to catch up

11:21

because there's this world of

11:23

podcast bookers, right? And then there's a world

11:25

of PR people who need to be working

11:27

on getting their clients booked on podcasts. And

11:30

they don't want to consult with any of them. Yes.

11:34

And this

11:36

is a world where you have to think omni-channel, where

11:38

you have to be integrated and you can't be siloed

11:40

and think, oh, if I'm a publicist, if I'm marketing

11:42

or if I'm sales, I'm doing this one thing, you

11:45

have to work together because that's the world we live

11:47

in. The

11:49

way you're putting this is really interesting because

11:52

I've been going on to that journey myself

11:54

for the past few years. And

11:56

I Am fortunate that I've been able to

11:58

build a podcast. Two fifty

12:00

reunited thing then to try to that

12:03

effect and you know it's exciting and

12:05

that people need to understand. I'm only

12:07

podcasting once a week so you know

12:10

my my day. Thursday's when my rating

12:12

com southland the podcast come out and

12:14

then it's being a you. Who.

12:17

Reviewed and downloaded by people but you

12:19

are doing it every day and so

12:21

is have made different business but yes

12:23

if you do good cook casting and

12:26

actually great when he on to send

12:28

your jones and creating a really nice

12:30

ecosystem fall off least now you can

12:32

start monetizing. I do not money tied

12:34

in my pocket and people have been

12:36

awfully nice to do so. that and

12:38

way any caught but I do a

12:40

lot of work what you call multi

12:43

channel also lot of work which is

12:45

multi channel in France marketing where the

12:47

Potters. Is one of the channel

12:49

we use a specific campaign

12:51

and you mention the recession.

12:54

You. Know and I remember as a time

12:56

when we talk that a lot of

12:58

people were cutting on their markets and

13:00

better. And these by Chino. Needing

13:03

to sell and the bone often

13:05

do not try. To

13:07

sell you need to market and into

13:10

markets are so that you actually not

13:12

pushing products York City Solving problems. Yes,

13:15

your experience working you know aimed

13:17

the world of answering in the

13:19

world of corporate with large and

13:21

small businesses and high yield for

13:23

the address The shots is over

13:25

the past. Three years. Know.

13:29

I think I've really been into

13:32

making sure I understand. More.

13:35

About a lot of different things, right? So

13:37

I can that better advise people on how

13:39

to make the best use of their dollars.

13:41

Knowing. that many especially for small

13:43

business it's not easy to get financing

13:46

unless you have somebody already backing you

13:48

must small businesses don't i'm on the

13:50

intuit small business council and united states

13:53

and sell it's man made up members

13:55

who use quick box and melts amp

13:57

and different tools and we are actually

14:00

going to speak to Congress in

14:02

a couple of weeks about AI and

14:05

small businesses and why we need to make sure that

14:07

they have access to tools, right? Last

14:09

year we spoke about digital equity and

14:11

how small businesses had to ramp up

14:13

to digital seven years faster because of

14:15

the pandemic than they were intending to.

14:18

And a lot of businesses get left behind. So

14:21

I think it's our job, particularly as

14:23

marketers and growth strategists and brand strategists

14:25

to help them understand, build a solid

14:28

foundation, build a solid brand, know exactly

14:30

who you are, who your target is. And

14:32

then podcasting again, it's a great

14:34

way to get your message out to the

14:37

right audience at the right time. Don't

14:39

look at the size. You and

14:41

I are in very special places, Sabine, with

14:44

our audiences, but there are a lot of

14:46

great podcasts out there that have smaller audiences,

14:48

but they could still be the right audience

14:50

for your product or service. I

14:53

have personally listened to

14:55

episodes and then reached out to guests and started

14:57

working with them because I

14:59

said, oh, I really like what they're saying. I know

15:01

that that's something I want to pursue. Let me reach

15:03

out and find out more about their service. So it

15:05

does work and it is

15:08

a free, typically way

15:10

to market. And then

15:12

you can turn it also into advertising

15:14

campaigns. It shows thought leadership. So

15:17

when we're thinking about how do you

15:19

want to best utilize an ad campaign

15:21

and your marketing resources, it's

15:23

really about making sure you are reaching the exact

15:25

target market, focusing on maybe

15:27

one social media channel where you know that

15:29

they're living, not everything, maybe reserve

15:32

all of the names across the socials,

15:34

but don't put all of your, don't

15:36

scatter your attention. Just really be focused

15:38

and niche down. And

15:40

I think that's what I found with myself too is I

15:44

was getting so much more interest in the podcast and

15:46

I have so much passion for it and education that

15:49

I needed to niche down to making this a business

15:52

and really thinking, okay, how can I

15:54

help other people understand how to make

15:56

this a business, but also help get

15:58

more voices heard on my. podcast so

16:00

that more people can hear their

16:03

stories and want to work with them and pursue

16:05

that. And I so much agree. I tend to navigate

16:08

between investors, corporate

16:11

innovators, but also

16:13

startup founders, scale apps,

16:15

unicorns. And it's interesting

16:17

because actually you are able to give them a

16:20

voice. And as you said,

16:22

when you understand how marketing works, people

16:24

look for solution to problems. So they

16:26

are going to look for specific keywords.

16:28

The podcast is going to appear

16:31

on Google and then they give them a

16:33

resource to go towards to actually

16:35

learn how to solve that problem or

16:37

maybe connect with someone. And

16:40

so those who are listening now, podcast

16:43

is really critical because also

16:45

those coming into the podcast get

16:47

calls, right? People

16:50

interested in what they have to offer.

16:53

So it's a nice

16:55

life cycle around giving and

16:57

receiving and enabling as well.

17:01

Yes. I love the way you phrased that because

17:03

that is the truth. It's not

17:05

about you, right? And that's what I

17:07

think what a lot of people forget. They're like, I don't

17:09

want to use my own voice, but this same

17:12

time everybody wants to hear who

17:14

are you, what I'm buying into you, right?

17:18

Like as a person and as a founder. And

17:21

that is, yes, you have the product that's going

17:23

to solve something, but I want to know more

17:25

about the person behind it, the authenticity factor. And

17:29

you have to have that and believe in the person

17:31

and believe that then their solution is really going to

17:33

solve the problem for you. So a

17:35

lot of times people get hung up on, oh,

17:37

but I don't want to be the spokesperson. Well,

17:39

don't think about it as it's you think about

17:42

it as you're offering something that people need to

17:44

hear because what you have to offer in the

17:46

solution you're providing is going

17:48

to just help revolutionize things or it's going

17:50

to help provide access to something or change

17:53

somebody's life in some way that's really important

17:55

to them at this moment in time.

17:58

Go Take the ego out of it.

18:01

Peggy even allowed Officer and I like

18:03

that statement as well. And kneecaps. Not

18:05

two things I would like to dive

18:07

into. The first is a i see

18:10

you mention of to intelligent changing the

18:12

world of marketing and as an authentic

18:14

markets year I know I can go

18:16

and dive into a i innocently city

18:19

with you. and how can we be

18:21

authentic in the world of artificial intelligence

18:23

and you went to Congress to actually

18:26

make sure that young businesses were not

18:28

left behind? That is my first. Question

18:30

second: Is a how

18:32

do we build a brand identity

18:35

in the world We are butting

18:37

into. Entering Now.

18:40

Classed as as such requests sense to

18:43

the him as the first one with

18:45

a i. My.

18:48

Recommendation right now is. Don't.

18:51

There are companies and there are people I

18:53

will discuss speaking to since about this yesterday

18:56

about how analysis and tic tacs leaders will

18:58

create things and ai. And. I'll put

19:00

them out because they are going to get

19:02

more of you do with and more money

19:04

and but they had it may not have

19:06

accurate information. might if you just use a

19:08

I to create something as a lot of

19:10

misinformation and it am. I've done I've done

19:13

as. Examples. Where I'd say

19:15

okay I went to see i'm going to have this

19:17

write a blog post for me and then site all

19:19

the sources because you can ask agitated sources and then

19:21

going to click through and see are these will sources

19:24

are not. And. It's not always

19:26

the case, that means it's of oh

19:28

here's the source and I'm like there's nothing

19:30

here are this is not talking about what

19:32

you say at all so you have

19:34

to be very careful and really use it

19:37

as a tool. So write something. Right

19:39

to marking, copy and or for trying

19:41

to think of a timeline for a

19:43

campaign and then put it in and

19:45

to say he tweets this one of

19:47

it and the murder specific you can

19:49

get the better write your you know

19:51

this like. says. like

19:54

about your brand ways fight as

19:56

and a very you know informal

19:58

way conversation away I

20:00

use these kinds of words and language.

20:02

Here is my mission of my company.

20:05

Now create something so that it

20:07

knows more, it can hone in more. And

20:09

the more that you use prompts and the right kinds of prompts,

20:11

the better you can get at it. But I

20:13

always use it as the tool, maybe a look of like,

20:15

oh, I feel like this paragraph is not quite polished enough.

20:17

Let me see if it gives me a

20:20

few other words to use rather than just go look up

20:22

synonyms or antonyms or other

20:24

words on the dictionary. You do, right? I

20:26

remember the Anthony thing is like, oh, again,

20:28

you did different work for this. And

20:31

then you have all these work classes. Oh, I like

20:33

this one. Let's just use this one, right? Yes.

20:36

And I recently spoke to Mnudj Agarwal who

20:38

lives in Vancouver. He is one of the

20:41

foremost experts on AI. I'm sure you probably

20:43

have talked to him. Not yet,

20:45

but we'll go ahead and use it. Oh,

20:47

wonderful. And he is

20:49

so optimistic. He's been working in AI for over

20:52

20 years. And he

20:54

said his recommendation for everybody is start with the

20:56

big tools from the big companies that we know,

20:59

because everybody right now is churning out, oh, I have

21:01

this AI solution. I have this other AI solution. But

21:04

if you look at them, a lot of

21:06

them are losing funding. They're consolidating because

21:08

they don't have a perfected tool. So

21:11

use mid-journey to make images,

21:14

right? Use chat GPT. Use one from

21:16

companies that we know and trust already

21:18

that are, we know they're pouring a

21:20

lot of investment. And just

21:22

start there. Start by learning one or two tools. AI

21:26

really is behind machine learning, right? It's everything

21:28

we do from the algorithms on social media

21:30

that help us find people or help people

21:32

find our brands to ad

21:35

tech and serving the ads out

21:37

to people through digital. So

21:39

we've been using it for years. We just didn't know

21:41

that that was the word for it. Yeah.

21:43

And that is the way, it's

21:46

very important for people listening to what we

21:48

are saying. In this

21:50

little device, we do have

21:52

AI, right? A lot of artificial intelligence

21:54

already embedded in it. And I know,

21:57

you know, Johnny Ivey and Sam Holtman is

21:59

going. are going to build this next device

22:02

for us, which will be eye-driven.

22:05

But we have been using

22:07

AI for ever. So first, let's

22:09

not be scared about it. Second,

22:12

as you said, let's just use the

22:14

recommended the reliable platform, Jimmy and I,

22:17

CoPilot, OpenAI,

22:20

Midjourney, and very much in run Leonardo

22:23

AI, because I love

22:25

the fact that they can help me

22:27

with my prompting, actually, Yernica. Well,

22:31

and I use it for my podcast episodes.

22:33

I love that I could put in the

22:37

episode and AI will pick out

22:39

reels, little video snippets that

22:41

are the best ones, right? And

22:43

then I decide if they are the best ones or

22:46

not, and I tweak them. But at

22:48

least it gives me a start instead of

22:50

having going through every single episode again, which I'll

22:52

listen to them when they come out on

22:54

the air. But I don't

22:56

have that time, right? And then it

22:58

also creates, here is the transcript from

23:00

the episode, here's a potential blog post

23:02

captions. And you do have to go

23:05

in and tweak them, you still have to have the

23:07

human interaction. But it is a

23:09

great time saver. Yeah, so it's

23:11

a great time saver. It's about

23:13

humanizing our work. And

23:15

right, I mean, managing AI means you have to

23:17

have a human in the loop, and

23:20

then to make sure that the content is still

23:22

your voice. So it's human centered, very

23:24

critical. So what about

23:26

the second point around, you know, how do

23:28

we build a brand identity, no fantasy tea

23:31

in the world of AI we are in

23:33

now? I think

23:35

the same way we've always done, you have to start

23:37

with your brand blueprint, you start with, who

23:39

are you? What is your purpose, or your brand's

23:41

purpose or your product's purpose? Why is it created?

23:44

What is it going to help people to walk

23:46

through? What is your vision for the world? How

23:49

will this product brand make it better? What is

23:51

your mission? So what is your vision and action?

23:53

You have this dream that in 20 years,

23:56

everybody will be able to do XYZ

23:59

because of your product or

24:01

your specific audience, right, will be able to

24:03

realize this goal, but then how are you

24:05

going to action that with your mission and

24:07

then what are your positioning, your values? And

24:10

I think the more we lean into that,

24:13

the better it is, the easier it is

24:15

for us to find the right audience to

24:17

understand what the right messaging is for our

24:20

product, for our service, for ourselves. Because

24:23

that's what people want nowadays. People are so tired

24:25

of just hearing all. We

24:27

hear so many marketing messages, tens of thousands

24:30

a day. We know that as marketers,

24:32

there are multiple touch points, so we have to reach

24:35

out to our audiences in different ways, whether it's a

24:37

podcast, one is a website. I might

24:40

go to your LinkedIn, that I might see an ad,

24:42

right, or I might see you on social media. And

24:45

you need to have your brand be cohesive across

24:47

all of the different platforms. And

24:50

when you speak to people, you need to make sure

24:52

that you are treating people digitally the same way you

24:54

would treat a customer in real life. So

24:57

responding to their queries, answering their DMs,

24:59

having a community manager who's engaging, that's

25:02

something so many companies forget to do,

25:04

is engage with their audiences. They think,

25:06

I'm just going to build it. I'm

25:09

going to put it out there. I have a post and then

25:11

I don't need to respond to anyone. Well, how do you think

25:13

they're going to find out more about you and buy from you?

25:16

If you don't do that, they're not going to trust who

25:18

you are. And it's all about authenticity

25:20

and trust, right? Meaning

25:22

like they know you and that they

25:25

are like, okay, I can trust

25:27

this person with something really important to me.

25:30

And it could be a small thing, but it

25:32

could be a big thing or it could be a small

25:34

thing that grows into something larger and a bigger spend later down

25:36

the road. But

25:38

I don't think that AI has changed the way that

25:40

we need to be ourselves

25:42

and be our brands and

25:44

show up as brands. And I

25:46

think especially the younger generations demand

25:48

this fully. Yeah, they're

25:51

expecting it. So let's

25:53

go into the world of selling because you know

25:55

over the past I think three years, I think

25:58

selling has changed. when

26:00

I have this conversation is you don't

26:02

really sell, you actually have a conversation

26:05

and you try to solve a problem. And

26:07

so how do we balance today the

26:10

sell marketing conundrum? I

26:13

had a great opportunity last year actually

26:15

to meet Gary Vee Vegas

26:18

and we had that conversation around sales

26:21

and marketing and he was saying, if

26:24

you are actually trying

26:26

to sell a product without marketing, it's

26:28

you already too late, right? You

26:30

have to focus on your marketing strategy, your

26:33

marketing plan and then things are going to

26:35

come to you. What's your view?

26:38

Yeah, 100%. I

26:42

get so many, I'm sure as everybody does

26:44

requests via email, cold calls,

26:47

cell phone calls, because now lead

26:50

to companies can find your number. Emails

26:53

to all of my different email addresses to

26:56

ask me to do XYZ. I'm

26:58

like, obviously your AI picked up one piece of

27:00

my profile. If you actually were

27:02

a person, you would understand that I am

27:04

on this committee, but I don't work at

27:06

that company or I do this, but I'm

27:08

not as a professor, I'm not the decision

27:11

maker for USC. Like, and

27:13

so it battles me that in this day

27:16

and age, people are still, that's a poor

27:18

use of AI and these technologies. And

27:21

so it's really important, as you said, to

27:23

have these organic conversations, whether it's you or

27:25

it's a tool, find the tool that

27:28

can have conversations with people

27:31

that seem natives that are in your

27:33

voice, right? And then

27:35

help get them to the

27:37

point where you can have a conversation like

27:40

live rather than just online. Thomas

27:43

Helfrich is an expert on LinkedIn

27:45

LeadGen and he talks about

27:47

that and what he does is he'll put a

27:49

post, he'll see who responds to it if he's

27:51

not connected to them, he'll connect to

27:53

them and then have a conversation. He'll

27:56

go to the person's post and he'll look it up.

27:58

It's the same thing we use in PR. or that

28:00

we're supposed to use NPR, it's

28:03

the same thing with sales and marketing.

28:05

You must nurture the relationship because everything

28:07

is relationship-based, not

28:09

sales, right? People will come and they'll make

28:11

a decision if there are five widgets

28:14

that are going to decide the one that because

28:16

that they've built a relationship with instead of the

28:18

other ones. So when I get those

28:20

cold calls, those cold emails,

28:22

those cold LinkedIn messages, I just

28:25

say, nope, not interested. But if I get

28:27

one that's trying to build a relationship with me and not

28:30

just put one opening statement and then wants to connect

28:32

with me, then switch over to,

28:34

hey, we saw you switched jobs. Maybe

28:37

you need a new 401k or you need this

28:39

or that. No, you obviously

28:41

don't know who I am as a person. You

28:43

don't value me as anything except for a number.

28:47

Yeah, 100%. And LinkedIn

28:50

in particular, which is one of my

28:52

main channel, I get a lot of

28:54

those, as you'd expect, cold

28:58

messages. And like you, I would say, you

29:00

know, you have not really read

29:03

my LinkedIn profile. You actually picked a

29:05

company I may be engaged with or

29:07

I have engaged with. And you have

29:09

decided it's my company. And so

29:12

I usually press

29:14

the button delete or block immediately

29:18

because I don't have time with the

29:21

volume of the words I have to

29:23

deal with that. So that

29:26

takes me, you know, you mentioned already PR,

29:28

new marketing approach, when we look at the

29:31

world we are living in. What

29:33

is your view of the world of influencer

29:35

marketing? You already mentioned TikTok. I was having

29:37

a conversation this morning with

29:40

TikTok experts, which I am not.

29:42

If there is a thing, you know, that you can actually make 10,000

29:44

quid, you know, with

29:47

1,000 followers. I mean, I don't

29:49

even understand what you was talking to me about, but

29:52

I realized we are in a

29:54

world where people are trying to

29:56

find connection. And as you said,

29:58

authenticity and really aligned identity. What

30:01

do you see as prediction

30:03

with the world of influencer marketing if

30:05

there is one? There

30:07

is one, and I wish I had my statistics in

30:09

front of me, but a lot

30:12

of what I'm talking about right now

30:14

in one of my courses is the

30:16

difference between user-generated content and professionally produced

30:18

content. And a lot

30:20

of companies are now trying to

30:22

go more towards user-generated. Even

30:24

if you look at the latest, there's an

30:27

article that came out yesterday in Axios about

30:29

meta and how they had

30:32

one ecosystem of, I

30:35

think, CrowdWatch. It might

30:37

be a little bit of the wrong name,

30:39

but it was a system where journalists and

30:41

brands could see what's trending on Facebook, but

30:44

they're trying to get away from news and

30:46

politics. Yes,

30:50

yeah, and they're moving more towards they

30:52

want to see viral video content

30:55

from people. So every

30:57

social media channel is realizing that, and

30:59

also brands. If you look at

31:01

TikTok, when you see an ad, it doesn't get as

31:03

much service, as many

31:05

clicks, as when it's a person talking

31:07

about a brand that they're using. So

31:10

influencer marketing is going to become bigger and bigger,

31:12

is my prediction, but

31:15

it's also going to change because it's not

31:17

going to be the spam

31:19

messages on Instagram where they're saying, we want

31:21

you to be an influencer for a jewelry

31:23

line. It's only this much money you

31:25

have to spend. Well, guess what? With

31:27

the shipping, you are paying for that jewelry.

31:29

You're not getting a discount. You're not getting

31:31

it free, and you're not really an influencer.

31:33

They're sending this out to millions of people

31:35

to buy their product that you probably wouldn't

31:37

buy otherwise. So it's going to be

31:40

more about finding the people who really are voices and

31:42

not worrying as much about the number

31:45

of followers they have, but the true

31:47

engagement. And like you said on

31:49

TikTok, the nice thing about the TikTok algorithm, I'm

31:51

kind of like YouTube, what's different

31:53

is that it isn't about how many followers,

31:55

it's about what your content is. it

32:00

could put you on the Explore page to more

32:02

people just because you have content that might resonate

32:04

with them. So

32:07

yeah, it's fantastic.

32:10

It's unfortunate that there are still the

32:12

big influencers who try to take all the money and

32:14

maybe don't deserve it. So I think we're going to

32:16

see some things shift where it might

32:18

become more equitable. But

32:21

there are also AI influencers. So

32:23

I want to flag that because there are

32:25

fake influencers who have

32:27

millions of followers and get product

32:29

deals. I think that's more

32:31

of a novelty. I don't think they're going to take

32:33

over from people at this point. We

32:36

have seen what we do, right? And they have

32:38

been honest, they have done the PR and they

32:40

have done the articles. So you know who some

32:42

of those influencers, which

32:45

are AI-generated influencers are.

32:48

And it's a choice,

32:50

right? It's targeting a specific market

32:53

as well. Yeah.

32:57

So when actually I think about

32:59

influencer marketing because I do a

33:01

little bit of work on the

33:03

B2B site, macro work, what I

33:05

find is educating brands around the

33:07

change and maybe giving some tips

33:09

to people now there around how

33:11

do we educate the corporations to

33:13

make that change could be useful.

33:15

What I find is whilst we

33:18

are trying to do user-generated content

33:20

to be really interesting and

33:24

authentic, we are dealing with brands and

33:26

brands want things to be in their

33:28

own way. And then we

33:30

always surprise when it's not performing because

33:32

we want it in our own

33:34

way. So Hanika, as an expert

33:37

in marketing, what would be your advice

33:39

to the big brands out there who

33:41

are actually trying to do user-generating content

33:44

in front-side marketing but do

33:46

not really understand that it means

33:49

authenticity? Yes. Oh,

33:51

that's such a great question because most times, like

33:54

you, I've done a little bit of micro and

33:57

they provide you with briefs. Here are the kinds of images

33:59

that we have. we want to see here the

34:01

hashtags here's the copy. Okay,

34:03

but that definitely sounds like sales

34:06

marketing, right? It doesn't sound like it

34:08

is inspired. And I have

34:10

a student in one of my

34:12

classes who is an influencer full time. And

34:15

she said she'll even offer brands a

34:17

lower price if she can

34:19

that they have to pay her if she can do

34:22

it her own way. And she said more brands

34:24

will say yes to that because then she

34:26

can be very authentic about it. And then it actually

34:28

is a better deal for the brand. She's still getting

34:30

paid what she thinks is fair, but

34:32

she's not having to adhere to those brand

34:34

standards. And I think

34:36

that's going to probably become more popular.

34:38

But I think as brands, don't

34:41

just look for everybody look for people who really

34:43

will speak to your audience who really fit your

34:45

demographic and your persona, psychographically,

34:47

not just demographically, and

34:50

let there be more freedom and

34:52

flexibility in what your influencers are

34:54

going to say, and be

34:56

open to their suggestions for content.

34:59

And try to have that have the hashtags,

35:02

right? Give them the language that you usually

35:04

use, but let them do say

35:06

it in their own way. Because that's the only way

35:08

it's going to be authentic. Yeah, one

35:10

of the campaigns I've done for one of us company

35:12

and they let me do whatever I wanted. I actually

35:15

give 250,000 clicks to

35:17

their website. Oh, my gosh, three months. All

35:21

targets are achieved. They could not even believe

35:23

it. But somewhere a

35:25

bit more constrained means

35:28

it's less authentic truly,

35:32

and it becomes harder. So I just

35:34

wanted to highlight that as well, because

35:36

authenticity is a key. That was a key word

35:38

of this year, I believe. And

35:40

people are really seeking and wanting

35:42

to be around, surrounded by people

35:44

who feel and look

35:47

like them, but also are entertaining.

35:49

If infortaining, and giving them value

35:51

every day, maybe a smile is why

35:53

I think TikTok has done so well.

35:55

You can smile on Instagram. to

36:00

smile a little bit more on other platforms

36:02

as well. And find

36:04

a way we can mix business

36:06

and also pleasure but fun

36:09

because we are all remote

36:11

working nowadays and so we

36:13

just need to have that light at the end of

36:15

the day. How

36:18

do you bring chime every day in your

36:20

life? Wow,

36:25

I try to take time for

36:28

myself to read, to

36:31

be inquisitive, to

36:34

walk my dogs. I

36:38

also listen

36:40

to subliminals when I go

36:42

to sleep so that it sets

36:44

me up and just puts me in a really calm state

36:46

of being. And then I try

36:48

to listen to some positive affirmations and do some

36:50

affirmations during the day when I can find time.

36:52

So I try to find weeks

36:55

like I know that you and I both have weeks that

36:57

are crammed full and I look at my calendar and I

36:59

go, wait, I was trying to schedule time in between each

37:01

meeting so I had a little mini break. But

37:04

that is usually what I try to do is

37:06

not back to back so that I have even

37:08

15 minutes between meetings and I can get up

37:10

and do something, just get some energy flowing again,

37:13

not just sitting at my desk the whole time,

37:15

read a chapter of a book for fun or

37:17

read a chapter of a book for business that

37:19

I've been wanting to get to or build a

37:21

shelf or something I've been trying to do on

37:23

my home. So I try to find those

37:25

little moments of joy and I also take

37:28

a lot of joy in missing out. So

37:30

the JOMO, joy of missing out. I

37:33

love what I do. I love

37:35

that I'm very intentional now about

37:38

what I do. I'm actually getting my master's right now

37:40

as well because I teach master's students but I don't

37:42

have my master's. So to teach full time, I have

37:45

to get that. So I'm getting my master's.

37:47

I'm podcasting. I get to talk to amazing

37:49

people all day every day. I get to

37:51

speak to my students and help them have

37:53

those aha moments. And then

37:56

beyond that, I want to spend time with my

37:58

family and some close friends. and reading

38:00

and fixing my house and just giving myself

38:02

energy and room to breathe and to create.

38:05

Because if we don't give ourselves space, we

38:08

can't be in that creative zone and come

38:10

up with that next big idea. I

38:13

agree. I so much agree. Finding

38:16

that, protecting the time to be

38:18

able to be creative, right? I think

38:21

the three main words or

38:23

statements I've heard since the

38:25

world of AI has embraced

38:29

us at speed are

38:31

creativity, problem

38:34

solving and decision making. Those

38:36

are the three words that you know

38:39

AI cannot really do. We still need

38:41

a human in the loop to actually

38:43

achieve and if we can actually look

38:45

at the tool, the capabilities and be

38:48

more creative and solve

38:50

problems and help people

38:53

make better decisions, we are in

38:55

a star position. As

38:58

an expert in marketing, in

39:00

branding, in educating others as

39:03

to how to leverage the very best

39:05

capabilities around us to build

39:08

market growth and

39:10

scale businesses, what would be your top tips?

39:13

And I have a favor

39:15

to ask you, top tips

39:17

for corporations, big companies and

39:20

tech founders. It may be the same,

39:23

but I would really love for you to think

39:25

through what big companies

39:27

need to really think about today to be

39:30

successful. What tech founders who

39:32

are trying to scale their business need to

39:35

think about to succeed as well

39:37

in a world which is such and at

39:39

such a fast pace? The

39:44

first thing is the people. I

39:47

would say the people, the purpose are

39:50

two of the biggest things. I

39:52

see a lot of times corporations forget

39:55

to take care of their people. They

39:58

also forget what their initial purpose is. purposes

40:00

and visions were. And the

40:02

number of people I've had tell me, oh, I

40:05

got my dream job, and they go into a

40:07

big corporation. And then they find

40:09

out that everything they thought it was about is

40:12

they don't see it, right? They're not living

40:14

it every day. So I

40:16

think that corporations need to remember

40:18

to live their values, live their

40:20

purpose, remember to appreciate their people.

40:23

And if a tech founder, somebody who's just

40:25

starting out can start from that basis. How

40:28

much higher faster will

40:30

their growth be? So I

40:32

guess three P's, people, purpose,

40:35

and productivity, or,

40:38

you know, the SOPs, making sure that

40:41

you have strong operations. I

40:43

am not that person, but I know that

40:45

I need that. So when I'm starting a

40:47

new venture, I always say who on my

40:50

team that I've worked with before can

40:52

be the person who can help me here, or who do

40:55

I need to identify? So that is

40:57

the only reason that I now can do

40:59

this podcast every day, because

41:01

I have an amazing team that I can

41:03

turn more and more over to. So I

41:05

have somebody who will make sure that the

41:08

guests have filled out the forms, who will

41:10

check my calendar, she will take

41:12

the edited episodes from our editor, and she will put

41:14

them through the AI and make

41:16

sure she'll create the graphics and the videos, then

41:18

she'll send them to the social media person to

41:20

put them up. But then she'll also put them

41:22

in the guest folder so that every guest has

41:24

promotional materials for themselves, then she'll

41:26

schedule it, right? So she's taking so much

41:29

of that work that

41:31

I was doing myself, so that

41:33

I can now have that time to

41:35

really connect with people more,

41:37

think about what's the next step, okay, what

41:39

else can I do for monetization strategy, just

41:42

that I can help support the people

41:44

and myself, right, that are in my

41:46

business, who are doing

41:48

such amazing work and really helping me put

41:50

this out. So if you think

41:52

about your productivity, your operations, your people and

41:54

your purpose, and you keep those three things

41:57

front and center, everything else falls

41:59

into place. When I lean more

42:01

into what I'm best at and what I'm passionate

42:03

about, I get more offers for

42:05

people who want to work with me or for

42:08

the financing or I'm able to think about that

42:10

idea that people wanted to do and are asking

42:12

me for, but I just wasn't listening because I

42:14

was so distracted with something else. Yeah,

42:17

no, I hear you and I hear you

42:19

and we need to find the best way

42:21

to create space in our lives, to work

42:23

maybe on fewer projects, better projects, things

42:26

which are akin and align with

42:28

our values and beliefs and

42:30

actually I have a little bit of that as well

42:32

right after those last three years. So

42:34

can I ask you what would be your last

42:37

word of wisdom for everybody out there? Ooh,

42:40

my last word of wisdom. I

42:43

always go back to a quote from

42:45

the Dalai Lama which is, be kind

42:47

whenever possible, it is always possible. It

42:50

can be very hard sometimes when we're thinking about

42:53

how somebody else is acting to us or

42:55

we're in our own head to

42:57

be kind, but we have to remember

42:59

that everybody we work with is coming from a place

43:01

and they have their own things going on. So

43:03

if we come at it with the kindness,

43:06

we can get so much more done together and

43:08

be much more productive and come up with

43:10

better solutions and have better relationships,

43:12

whether it's in work or outside of

43:14

work. Yeah, absolutely. Where

43:18

we can find you, Anika, where can

43:20

people learn a bit more about you?

43:22

Thank you so much, Sabine. This has

43:24

been such a wonderful conversation. I really

43:26

appreciate all of your questions. My

43:29

website is yourbrandamplified.com. You

43:32

can find out more about me. You

43:35

can listen to the podcast and even

43:37

schedule a free session

43:39

just to talk about anything, branding,

43:41

marketing, PR, strategy, live, podcasting, whatever. I

43:43

have a calendar link up there and

43:46

I'll also share the link with you.

43:48

If you want to put it in

43:50

the show notes, then share it. Anika,

43:53

send me the link because I think what

43:55

I've seen is people listen to the session

43:57

and then they say, okay, I need to

43:59

connect. with the speaker and

44:02

the final link on the show notes

44:04

and they reach out and I've heard

44:06

so many of my guests

44:08

receiving calls and really having

44:11

fun with my insurance technology

44:14

group of amazing people, tech

44:16

founders, investors and corporate innovators.

44:18

So definitely. Anika,

44:21

thank you so much for joining me today

44:23

and I cannot wait to continue the conversation.

44:25

Yes, I can't wait to have you on

44:27

my podcast next. I can't wait. Thank you.

44:48

I hope you enjoyed this episode of Scouting

44:50

for Growth. Please subscribe, share with your friends

44:52

and leave a five-star rating. Your

44:54

rating is so valuable. I'll review all of

44:57

them and my team helped

44:59

me adapt content to meet your needs. Also,

45:02

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45:04

am a B2B growth expert so you will

45:06

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45:09

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45:11

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45:14

Until next, keep Scouting for Growth.