Deb Chachra is a professor at Olin College of Engineering and the author of the new book, How Infrastructure Works: Inside the Systems That Shape Our World. In this conversation, Jarrett and Deb talk about why we don't want to think about infrastructure and how it encourages and discourages particular ways of living, overlap of design and engineering education, and value of teaching principles of care and maintenance. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/238-deb-chachra.—If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast