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2:24

Hello! Hi When

2:26

the great thing is messed up over

2:29

here arms try to fix it or

2:31

why? Oh okay,

2:33

can you hear it? He has.

2:36

Earlier this week assigned to a certain

2:38

in the surname Sarah he okay boys

2:40

asking people to send in questions for

2:42

the show. The thing I should warn

2:44

you of listener she did as. A

2:47

make higher follow ups. Where are we

2:49

talking about? Where are you? I'm in my

2:51

car. Outside of

2:54

a library. I come here

2:56

to use their Why Fi while my kid

2:58

is at their little. Montessori.

3:00

Preschool program. Oh that's

3:02

really nice. Sarah. Woods and

3:04

had a New York we're talking Monday when

3:07

everybody smalltalk have been orbiting the same topic

3:09

what are you doing for the Eclipses I.

3:12

I don't know actually because the eclipse

3:14

is during nap time my kidnaps early

3:16

release so I don't Yeah I don't

3:19

know what we're gonna do. I guess

3:21

I can like look outside and with

3:23

intuit a half year old that a

3:25

close out a reason to rouse a

3:27

child. Or. Absolutely not about

3:29

the upper, upper, upper. Haight.

3:36

So tell me what is your

3:38

question? Yes, the my question is

3:40

what's going on with these yard

3:42

signs I'd like to do. They

3:45

work and wire. There's so many.

3:47

Of them. And when you say

3:49

yards as you me like vote for blah

3:51

blah blah like the Political Yard said, Uma

3:54

A Political Yard. Signs of that. This

3:56

came up last year which was just local

3:58

elections, but we had a. Very

4:00

contentious District Attorney election.

4:03

And it was just ridiculous. The

4:05

number of signs, In

4:07

her email to the show sir had

4:09

said that this question that had come

4:11

up a few times when talking to

4:14

her friends and family in particular her

4:16

mom was going upset about the signs

4:18

towards rage was used and how did

4:20

you the old saying a yards as

4:22

you feel any way about them. I

4:25

feel like it's a lot of visual. Clutter.

4:29

Like I'm I'm a visual artist and so

4:31

I pay attention to what I'm seeing out

4:33

in the world. And it just seemed like there were

4:35

a lot. There. Would be for signs

4:37

for one of the candidates and then a

4:40

little bit later like there before or

4:42

for the other candidate to. And now it's

4:44

like is it cancelling them out What's

4:46

happening here. Yeah I've driven in

4:48

neighborhoods were like you can feel like

4:50

visually you're seeing like a noisy or

4:52

even the happening and it's sort of

4:55

unpleasant Yes and it starts to feel

4:57

like is this. Is this

4:59

something that we're doing? I don't

5:01

know. like it's a tradition or

5:03

is it like sports? Where

5:06

people are like really into their team?

5:08

Oh so the question is like does

5:11

is haven't actually guilty or is this

5:13

about like people signaling what tried? They're.

5:16

Totally yelling are we doing? Nothing has is

5:18

actually use or like should I be putting.

5:20

Signs in my yard. Is this

5:22

actually saying that sending mine or

5:24

is this is something that people

5:26

are doing because. That's what they've always

5:29

done and it feels like you're doing

5:31

something. There you're just being the math says.

5:35

right? And what's your suspicion? that

5:38

I'm just nothing about my personality?

5:40

Lends. Itself. Like I

5:42

always indoors you get a political yards I'd

5:45

like. I'd just like is nothing is where

5:47

opposite of my feelings about the world the

5:49

like. I. Always assumed that

5:51

they don't work and I've never driven by

5:53

of and like oh wait. Davis. For

5:56

comptroller I guess that's what I'm doing. Plate

5:58

I feel like your squeezes a dirt. Not

6:00

doing something. My suspicion is that

6:02

they're not doing something. Yes, He

6:07

said i don't even know you would

6:09

get one. So my neighbor Ah is

6:11

one of the people that gives them

6:13

out the see her reports like sees

6:15

one of the Chatham Democrats is a

6:17

very into best. She's very involved politically

6:19

and so. Caesar. At like a

6:22

location that people com. To pick up

6:24

signs for our local representative. And

6:27

so I think it's maybe more on my

6:29

mind because of that, you say right

6:31

by the speaker of a big ass, the

6:33

i'm like I'm I'm near a distribution center

6:36

for this, the thing that's happening and I'm

6:38

wondering. Should. I be putting

6:40

signs on my yard because if it

6:42

did make a difference. Like. It's

6:44

a pretty low. Effort

6:46

Saying. I don't know. Are

6:49

you go over whether we could write out. After

6:56

these ads, a series of experiments

6:58

plus a mysterious fellow named and

7:00

Griffin you may have heard of.

7:05

That after the break. He

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Parts. Hey

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there. Did you know Kroger always gives

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you savings and rewards on top of

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our lower than low prices? Doctor

8:20

Cindy can dress and experimental. Research lab

8:23

at Vanderbilt for work. focuses on political

8:25

psychology and public opinion. Wings see drives

8:27

past the odd yard sign the way

8:30

a geologist my pick up an unusual

8:32

conglomerate rock before doctors him started studying

8:34

art science says he wondered about them

8:36

in very much the same way. or

8:39

us or Sarah had. As

8:43

a typical American in L,

8:45

I thought yard signs pop

8:47

up around election time. Yeah,

8:50

I was pregnant with my

8:52

son's in two thousand and

8:54

ten and there was a

8:56

very noisy election happening in

8:58

my area. Between the. Candidates

9:02

whose last name was Henry

9:04

and he had signs everywhere.

9:06

Everyone knew that Henry was

9:09

running for election. And. There

9:11

was sort of a no name Salazar

9:13

to was trying to unseat Henry. Well

9:15

Henry one. Now he was it. In

9:18

some bet he had tons assigns. The

9:20

a couple months later I gave birth

9:22

to my son and his name was

9:25

Century. Did. Was

9:27

did the yard signs beam your sun. Sets

9:30

I think is one of these

9:32

things where you start to see

9:34

a name and it becomes more

9:36

familiar to you. It is more

9:38

pleasant and he a test or

9:40

liking it. So I just

9:42

like what I hear you saying is

9:45

the theory of the Yard Sign his

9:47

name or suspicion? Correct. So

9:51

the psychological process as called

9:53

perceptual fluency for substances. You

9:55

know the first time you

9:57

hear a song that he

9:59

thing. A lot of a good

10:01

fan and. Then. You hear it again and

10:03

you hear it again and it becomes

10:06

much easier for you to listen to

10:08

it via perceptual fluency. means that the

10:10

more you're exposed to something, the more

10:13

familiar it becomes. And before you have

10:15

a net, you like it. Talking.

10:18

To doctors and become a nurse. How

10:20

essential he says. A student of the

10:22

lease, rational parts her mines. The.

10:25

Birds we might call our gut instinct

10:27

but which are usually really as possible

10:29

said ourselves. To. Believe we know

10:31

something. we don't actually know it all. I.

10:34

Was curious how she figured out a

10:37

method for studying this particular question. You.

10:39

Can't run the same? Listen twice: You're not going

10:42

to been some city councilor to not use yard

10:44

signs so that you can learn a little bit

10:46

more about the world. There.

10:48

Will be a concrete answer to this

10:50

yard signs question, but before that, I

10:53

just appreciate the process of getting their

10:55

how doctor. Cheerfully. Methodically

10:57

devices ways to measure

10:59

human irrationality. Well

11:02

that's one of the fun about

11:04

being a political scientist is that

11:06

we get to think creatively as

11:09

that ways to get at our

11:11

questions in multiple ways to their

11:13

hearts. And some political scientists who

11:16

has collaborated with campaigns and decided

11:18

to randomly closed. Yard.

11:20

Signs in one district versus another

11:23

for example, or in one neighborhood

11:25

versus another, and they are able

11:28

to then estimate how effective that

11:30

yard soon as. That

11:32

is a be a presley

11:34

tet now. My colleague live set

11:37

Nicer and I are political

11:39

psychologists so given we wanted to

11:41

study the psychological processes. We

11:44

went to our laboratory. Is

11:49

one in the lab. So

11:52

the background for our study

11:54

comes from the psychological tradition.

11:56

There are these really interesting

11:58

psychological studies that has so

12:00

for example that. His.

12:03

Research subjects are asked to read

12:05

a random list of names on

12:07

one day. Then

12:10

they come back the next day. And

12:12

they are asked to look at

12:14

a bunch of different names Analysts

12:17

They decide that the ones that.

12:19

Seem kind of the million to them.

12:22

Must be famous. Said. That

12:24

called the fall semester so

12:26

we have the sense that

12:28

you know being exposed to

12:31

things right and downs of

12:33

subsequent to scissors. Okay, the

12:35

counter or brother sort of like the

12:37

argument against this idea would be. If

12:40

I believe as a totally rational, fully informed

12:42

person was I, I know that they can

12:44

be either that or Juri. But if I

12:46

were. The idea that

12:48

a politician as well known would not

12:50

be reasonable for them because when my

12:52

rational mind the tell his debut on

12:54

on for anything. most politicians at least

12:56

on a local level are well known

12:58

like it shouldn't matter where you're testing

13:01

other does. Guess so

13:03

in an idealized democracy citizens

13:05

are all now and developed

13:07

as much time as they

13:10

can to been coming fully

13:12

informed or when it comes

13:14

time to vote one they

13:17

turn out and to they

13:19

cast slowly informed that that

13:21

are consistent say with underlying

13:24

value or policy preferences. So

13:26

that says he's hoping we did not

13:28

live in a live on an idealized

13:30

Mcafee. You're measuring what we have and

13:32

what do you what? what happens. So.

13:35

Instead of imagining you know this

13:37

paradise. We. Want to know

13:39

in the real world what happens. But. Before

13:41

we get to the real world, we want to Now.

13:44

In. The Laboratory can we capture

13:46

a psychological. Processes. The

13:49

funny thing about our said he is that we

13:52

exposed people to names. That we

13:54

did it subliminally. How do you do that?

13:56

Our research subjects are seated in front

13:58

of a computer. Hey

14:01

I told you will see some

14:03

words or it matters Flash and

14:05

son of you. Ignore those. This

14:07

is as part of the Fall.

14:11

So they're off to just

14:13

watch the screen for about

14:15

thirty seconds. Instead that

14:17

thirty seconds, they are randomly

14:19

assigned to receive a nonsensical

14:21

set of letters. Or.

14:25

Alone. Food. So.

14:27

Our candidates name is Ben Griffin. We

14:29

selected this name because we wanted a

14:31

name that would not be so unusual

14:33

that people would notice that with afford

14:35

this sort of a name that seems

14:37

reasonably common. Yeah. So

14:39

in the experiment are we: For subjects

14:42

who are randomly assigned to receive the

14:44

name. They're sitting there, they're looking at

14:46

a screen and Griffin is popping up

14:49

hidden amongst a bunch of other letters

14:51

strings so that it is not visible

14:53

to you know, someone who is just

14:55

looking at the screen. It's presented subliminally

14:58

in my for a second. This. Year

15:01

later. We ask them

15:03

where political psychologists were interested.

15:05

Election: So imagine there's a

15:07

hypothetical lox and between two

15:09

candidates. There's. One candidate. Mike

15:11

Williams and other sort of this kind

15:13

of com and name. Yeah. And then

15:16

there's another candidate. His name is Ben

15:18

Garrison. Would you be willing to vote

15:20

for this candidate or the other candidates?

15:22

Have you given them any other information?

15:25

These hypothetical candidates know. In this

15:27

baseline experiment, we give them no

15:29

information and so the fully rational

15:31

person would say. I have no

15:33

idea. I have no information

15:35

and I'll flip a coin in

15:37

a we're not doing a decently rational

15:40

people So we signed a ten percentage

15:42

point increase and willingness to vote

15:44

for Ben Griffin. Him percentage

15:46

point. Correct. Intersect

15:48

and that would hold for that's a

15:51

real effect. You get ten for says

15:53

with off of I've heard the same

15:55

before. That's. Correct and people don't

15:57

know that they've heard it before. Because

16:00

it's subliminally exposed. To

16:02

they're not say themselves out this is a bank of

16:04

and who I liked or disliked. I just have a

16:06

feeling and I can explain it. That's craft.

16:09

Yes, So we have the

16:11

ceilings and a duck flying at

16:14

that. Yeah, out his name is

16:16

kind of familiar. Elena Worth hundred.

16:18

and yeah, I guess the line

16:21

of us had this guy. so

16:23

that's what we found in our

16:25

first experiment was that subliminally priming

16:28

a set of our respondents with

16:30

the last name Griffin increase their

16:32

willingness to support then Griffin and

16:35

we did follow up questions asking.

16:38

People. To distinguish between

16:40

the two candidates on

16:42

their traits spare experience,

16:45

And. Their viability. Have you given

16:47

that any information about the reasons. Given them

16:49

no information without. A.

16:55

License Ham and her colleagues asked

16:57

voters powered questions about Ben Griffin's

16:59

trades for the trades and has

17:01

made up competitors. Did better than

17:03

see more empathetic, did bends of

17:05

and see more experience. Voters.

17:08

Did not say Ben was more

17:10

experience or more empathetic to just

17:12

seemed for some reason with a

17:15

more viable candidate. Touch.

17:17

With him said, there are limits

17:19

of course to the benefits of

17:21

name recognition. Comptrollers had Bundy sentence

17:23

is unlikely to sweep. And

17:26

there are other effects They can overpower

17:28

name recognition. For. Instance doctors,

17:30

hims team rent other studies and

17:32

which voters were given more information

17:34

about these other faiths Candidates: In

17:37

these studies they were told that the

17:39

candidate namely westernized was now running against

17:41

and incumbent. A person using the didn't

17:43

know but who they were told was

17:45

already in power. In

17:47

these studies, the name recognition advantage

17:49

to the way. It

17:52

felt like the team now understood the power

17:54

and the limits of this name recognition of

17:56

fact. And the strength of a yard

17:58

sign. At least in a lab.

18:01

Now. They're ready to move onto the next

18:03

phase. Days

18:09

you. Out in the real world. Sell

18:12

Our first three studies are

18:15

the is very clean laboratory

18:17

studies with undergraduates and from

18:20

and academics standpoint. they have

18:22

high causal leverage. We can

18:25

really say that exposing people

18:27

to these subliminal primes. A

18:30

sex the road Choice or in the

18:32

case of states and three does not

18:34

affect their vote choice because they are

18:36

relying on the incumbent kids. The Up:

18:39

But the follow up question is does that

18:41

make a difference in the real world. right?

18:45

So. How do you has that? We.

18:48

Came up with a design

18:50

that exploits natural variation in

18:53

the real world among parents

18:55

who are dropping their kids

18:57

off. For. School. So what do you me was that.

19:00

There is a local

19:02

school where half of

19:04

the parents are randomly

19:06

assigned to enter the

19:08

school using say streets.

19:10

Egg. And then the

19:13

other half of this parents are

19:15

told to use. Street and beat.

19:17

oh this is just as a school

19:19

as end up with like a huge

19:21

clustered not correct oh but you can

19:23

I see they're targeting says he means

19:25

you can play yard signs on one

19:27

of these two approaches. That's right.

19:29

So we took advantage of

19:31

a schools this isn't to

19:33

manage traffic using one pass

19:35

versus another pass. Producer and of

19:38

the as a more aggressive it's a to fight

19:40

with the school was a just like someone who

19:42

was due to say you're like by the way

19:44

they have to do this for my kids Anyway

19:46

yes. I have

19:48

a very smart. Said

19:50

this is one of these days where

19:52

it's helpful to be in the real

19:55

world and be thinking about oh how

19:57

do we actually do this in the

19:59

real world And what are the ways

20:01

than one the people are assigned to

20:04

tag particular pass life them? So weird.

20:06

Why did this natural variation and we

20:08

places three yard signs for Ben Griffin

20:10

in front of a homes that happen

20:12

to be alone. One of the to.

20:15

Browse via the three times.

20:17

Stayed there for three days.

20:20

the we. Took them off

20:22

and then we launched a survey

20:24

and we included a key question

20:26

on our survey which asked the

20:28

parents which route and took to

20:30

school. And then the

20:32

included or own questions which were.

20:36

Coming City Council this.

20:39

Said the upcoming city council race

20:41

was a complicated one where I

20:43

believe they were. Eight

20:45

candidates on the ballot. We

20:48

included two additional one on

20:50

the list in our search.

20:52

Least said. here are the

20:55

candidates running for election in

20:57

the city council and then

21:00

we had our to name.

21:02

Him that. And

21:08

I'm assuming one was named Bromyard side and

21:10

what is a totally made up named it's

21:12

also for the road Bit of a one

21:14

wasn't yard signs correct. Cel. Ben.

21:17

Greyson and know sanctions. Were

21:19

inserted in the lists of

21:22

city council candidates. Spenders.

21:24

And as the person or the

21:26

name for whom we posted the

21:29

signs, notes and Kansas considered the

21:31

placebo name, we're another sickening. So.

21:36

We asked the parents in

21:38

upcoming this for city council

21:40

to are your top three

21:43

choices for city council. And

21:46

what it is that it turns. Out

21:48

that than good sense. Received

21:50

a fair offer up on

21:52

Us ally but increase among.

21:54

Those who are assigned

21:57

to take that travel

21:59

that. Go to the very

22:01

flirty effect even in the real

22:03

world. Correct ten percentage points. Ten

22:10

percentage points. Which means arrows know

22:12

Sarah from Saddam was back door

22:14

to her. Signs apply neighbor pick

22:16

up a plastic piece of junk

22:18

dammit in the soil of her

22:20

yard and assuming enough of her

22:22

friends to the same thing and

22:25

assuming it's a relatively low information

22:27

kind of election they might reasonably

22:29

hope. That is where the outcome

22:31

at Ten Percentage Points I'm sorry.

22:33

that is a strange reality to

22:35

be forced to consider. After

22:39

the break, how exactly should we

22:41

feel about that Doctor Camps interpretation?

22:44

Not at all. But

22:47

as I've. Said.

23:32

So I once knew thing I usually want

23:34

to know when I went from things: if

23:36

yard signs are powerful enough to have a

23:38

ten percentage point about how my supposed to

23:41

feel than that. I

23:44

know we don't live in a utopia

23:46

and I know that Visitors or Ben

23:48

Griffin is not the world's best city

23:50

councilor. Like the world doesn't end tomorrow.

23:52

But there's also a part of me

23:54

that is slightly. Freaked

23:57

out by the as i guess like a house with the

23:59

film. A political. Scientist

24:01

I think assassinate. Suffer

24:03

for and put it out as as it

24:05

as much. As. Well

24:08

as a citizen as in a democracy

24:11

I will say when as we have

24:13

idealize no sense of what citizens are

24:15

to do and the second as do

24:17

we wanna know the truth to the

24:20

been on a know empirically that is

24:22

how do people actually make this isn't.

24:24

Yeah any. Apps and ah of

24:27

controlling other and from a some

24:29

people do rely on no mechanism.

24:39

Some. Names over others. And

24:42

that's not something that we

24:44

do because in our studies,

24:46

we experimentally manipulate that exists.

24:51

In. The real world had some candidates

24:53

had their names out there right for

24:56

whatever reasons, that as they're doing more

24:58

to raise money, they're doing more to

25:00

reach out to candidates, they're doing more

25:02

to be out on. The Media says

25:05

it's possible that name recognition ten the

25:07

efficient and a secessionist death in the

25:09

absence of all information because As or

25:12

candidates who are very invested in the

25:14

race and who are doing their best

25:16

to get their names out there. Yeah.

25:19

I will also say though, that

25:21

there are. Yell ways that

25:23

people can learn about candidates. And

25:26

if they learn more information

25:28

about candidates, The name

25:30

or he missed some really doesn't matter. And and

25:33

when you see there are ways that people

25:35

can learn more, I assume you mean make

25:37

either they can read journalism, big wants to

25:39

babes and that in. Say

25:41

a presidential election. There's

25:44

so much information. Whether the

25:46

emergence you get bad accurate

25:48

not, you were directly making

25:50

more informed decisions. In a

25:53

license to get more attention and coverage.

25:55

Correct. My. Son's here

25:57

is that name recognition matters on the.

26:00

Margins in the absence

26:02

as. Other sources of

26:04

information. That also scissors

26:06

people are not choosing

26:08

randomly. Oh maybe that's

26:10

a minimal concerts there has a

26:13

set of the guy does about

26:15

do than simply flipping coins. People

26:17

are using their debts and some

26:19

of these guys are may be

26:21

informed by real behaviors by the

26:23

candidates and the media. Have

26:25

you seen? I mean your work has

26:27

been published. Have you seen? Political.

26:31

Campaigns own eyes were weaponize,

26:34

but. They. Have

26:36

you seen people use that the findings from

26:38

your work in the real world and awaited

26:40

either win or nebulae a license. Know

26:42

I have not. It is a few

26:44

rows like oh. If. I found a

26:46

frenzy enough election and just really

26:48

really when hard with yard signs.

26:51

It's not impossible to imagine wedding or.

26:54

Increasing. The odds. Yes, so

26:56

there is a little an

26:58

that I've heard of that

27:00

have not their aside the

27:02

athletes as in a small

27:04

northeastern town. A.

27:07

A young man decided he was

27:10

going to run. I believe it

27:12

was for something like city council.

27:15

He was interested in politics. that

27:17

either, as a sort of twenty

27:19

something, had not really have had

27:22

much experience and politics. But

27:24

his uncle was a sign maker and it

27:26

turns out he won the a Lesson. Obviously.

27:30

The search engine team, never one

27:32

to miss an opportunity to overeat

27:34

or something, tried to fact check

27:36

this fun, possibly apocryphal story. We.

27:39

Weren't able to confirm it with did results.

27:41

The politician that Cindy had heard this rumor

27:43

about, They did. I get back to us.

27:46

Perhaps. It was true and didn't want

27:48

to talk about it. Perhaps it was untrue

27:50

and they thought we were drains. Regardless,

27:53

I had gone into this interview expecting

27:56

honestly to learn that yard signs didn't

27:58

really work or rarely worse. I

28:00

still didn't know what to make a

28:03

the fact that according to Doctor Cindy

28:05

Cancer Research they have a measurable and

28:07

consistent sacked. How. Does your work

28:09

make you feel personally just about. Democracy.

28:14

And pausing because that's a really

28:16

interesting question. As empirical social scientists,

28:18

we don't really think about how

28:21

we feel about democracy. We just

28:23

want to explore how it works.

28:25

Yeah. I. Would say. It's

28:28

a healthy step forward for the

28:30

sealed not to be hung up

28:32

on idealized for sense of what

28:34

would happen. Any to tell the

28:36

yeah, but rather to think about

28:39

how ordinary people make decisions in

28:41

the context of their realize. right?

28:44

So. It's like. I mean square

28:46

I feel about democracy as. I

28:48

really like it. I really worry about it. And

28:50

it sounds like one reason that you

28:53

do the work you do is because

28:55

you're underlying belief is. If

28:57

we understand how this actually works, cited and

28:59

how it would work in a perfect world,

29:01

we decide how we feel about that. We

29:03

seem to decided for now that actually there

29:05

are elections were okay. If it's seven percentage

29:07

of the decision of who ends up in

29:09

our is just like. Yard.

29:11

Sides and because And but we could change that if

29:14

we wanted to. But we couldn't change it unless we

29:16

understood that was what was going on. He

29:18

I agree that that I think that

29:20

and. With helpless to know.

29:23

How. Did people make decisions and

29:25

then what? Or maybe some interventions

29:27

that could be made to improve

29:29

the quality of their decision making?

29:33

One. Possibility is to think about

29:36

these elections for people don't have

29:38

a lot of information and to

29:40

think plan. Is there a way

29:42

that we can provide them with

29:44

more information or to said we

29:46

reduce the burden on citizens. And.

29:49

Hadn't some of these businesses be

29:51

appointed said by people who are

29:53

elected? When voters actually do pay

29:55

attention. Oh interesting, so that

29:58

you could have a world where. Rather,

30:01

Than voting for. The.

30:03

Dog Catcher yeah maybe the dog

30:05

catcher does not have to the

30:07

someone who is on a ballot

30:10

rights one of the things that

30:12

that American electoral. Decisions.

30:14

Is that one? Whereas.

30:16

To do them a lot and

30:19

to the ballots are extremely long.

30:21

Yeah, and this is a unique

30:23

and different from the Clinton said

30:25

the rest of the world. still.

30:27

On the one hand, more democracy

30:29

seems like it's better having more

30:32

choices and more Absence yes is

30:34

more democratic. On the other hand,

30:36

there is a burden of decision

30:38

making of choice right? and sometimes

30:40

people get overwhelmed with having too

30:42

many. Choices. His interview. You're describing

30:44

a world where there's a paradox. Were him?

30:47

If you have a super abundance

30:49

of democratic choices, eventually the world

30:51

becomes less. Democratic. In

30:53

a sense of. You. Overwhelm people and

30:55

they either don't shoes are they

30:58

to somewhat randomly and the system

31:00

becomes very. Imperfect.

31:03

Yes, it is psychological phenomenon as well.

31:06

call the paradox of choice. For.

31:08

Having too much choice can be

31:10

this has signed to people can

31:12

make them adverse to Tuesday. but

31:15

on the other hand, having choice

31:17

is so classically democratic. Yeah so

31:19

it it is a real conundrum.

31:23

There's this concept of like some the

31:25

low information voters you know the person

31:27

who is I like to an obsessive

31:29

happy attention. I know that. People

31:32

who do political science use that term

31:34

descriptive late. in the world of journalism,

31:36

I suppose you're journalists use that term

31:38

pejoratively of like what What surprises me

31:41

about the way you talk about it

31:43

is that I think often. The.

31:45

Implied solution is. Everyone

31:47

just need to be a better democratic

31:49

citizen. You know people, people should spend

31:51

more time, worry about their club, whatever

31:53

and I feel like what I hear

31:56

you using your work is lake shore.

31:58

That's one way to do it for

32:00

the Rio the as it's not what

32:02

is always are often happenings and perhaps.

32:04

We might consider. Fixing

32:07

this by looking at the system are

32:09

presenting people rather than expecting human nature

32:11

to suddenly change. Yes, I

32:13

think one of the. Ways. That

32:15

we can approach. That. Are decision

32:18

making is tough to try to rehabilitate

32:20

the voter. Hurt. Or

32:22

to try to create setser that

32:24

work with food. A voter is.

32:26

I me so. One other ways to think

32:28

about this also as we encourage people to

32:31

turn out to vote that we should also

32:33

be encouraging them when they do turn out

32:35

to vote to think that you know what

32:37

are the races said I want to vote

32:39

for and it's a totally some blankets they

32:41

don't have an opinion. Myself

32:51

thinking about some his observation in

32:53

a not settled way for a

32:55

while after this conversation in America

32:57

democracies both are system of government

33:00

and an affirmative value. something all

33:02

of us minus I guess if

33:04

you pro monarchy people on subside

33:07

publicly agree is good and I

33:09

do too. So I've never asked

33:11

what's the right amount democracy or

33:14

is there an amount of democracy

33:16

and which things become the last

33:18

democratic where the wisdom. Of

33:20

the crowd becomes decreasingly ways

33:23

yards per se. A

33:25

concept I expect I'll sit with for awhile. And

33:29

a businessperson why do you think

33:31

is that the Lizard road and

33:33

he was describing how and her

33:35

family is yards eyes were provoking

33:38

wage I financial that way waiting

33:40

for sending. Somebody

33:42

victory be like i don't know there's even

33:44

appointed as and I'm mad about it that

33:47

say our politics as. A

33:50

That's a good episode. of

33:54

they users for. Tigers. Are this my

33:56

pleasure? Professor

34:03

Researcher and William are keen in junior

34:05

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34:44

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