0:00

Crabs. Known for

0:03

being crustaceans. Famous for

0:05

being crabby. Nobody

0:07

thinks much about them so let's

0:09

have some fun. Let's find out

0:12

why crabs are secretly

0:14

incredibly fascinating. Hey

0:33

there folks, welcome to a whole new podcast

0:35

episode of podcast all about why being alive

0:38

is more interesting than people think it is.

0:40

My name is Alex Schmidt and I'm not

0:42

alone because I'm joined by my co-host Katie

0:44

Golden. Katie, what is your

0:46

relationship to? Crabs. Crabs. Crabs. Crabs.

0:48

Crabs. Crabs. Crabs. Crabs. Crabs.

0:51

Crabs. Again

0:53

the chanting of the crabs. Yes,

0:55

good. Crabs. My quick

0:57

one is that this made me realize I'm

1:00

a tiny bet grossed out by these animals.

1:02

It's not phobic but I don't love

1:04

them either and I do eat their meat. You

1:06

struggle with sea life. Yeah that's just me.

1:08

You struggle a little bit with sea life, yeah. The

1:11

ocean is my opponent so I'm

1:13

into Mr. Crabs now. That's probably the

1:15

biggest positive thing from Spongebob but you

1:17

know that's about it. Our

1:19

favorite crab who does

1:22

wage theft. So yeah no

1:24

I like I like crabs. I don't have

1:26

a problem with them. They do not gross

1:28

me out. I had a

1:30

hermit crab as a pet when I was

1:32

a kid. I don't recommend them as pets.

1:34

I don't think they make very good pets.

1:37

This one crawled into my armpit started

1:40

clinging on to the skin of

1:42

my armpit and would not let

1:44

go and it was enormously painful

1:47

and I couldn't pull it

1:49

off because I was worried if I did that I

1:51

would like rip its little arm off so I just

1:53

had a crab in my armpit for like a couple

1:56

hours. Shouldn't do anything

1:58

about it. I was 12. I

2:01

wasn't sure what I was supposed to do in that situation.

2:05

Did anyone around you intervene? Were your parents like

2:07

do this? No, I just was too embarrassed

2:09

to kind of like draw attention to it. It

2:12

let go eventually. No

2:15

harm, no foul. Just uncomfortable. It was very

2:18

uncomfortable having a crab in my armpit. Did

2:21

the crab have a name? Did it? I

2:24

think it was just called crab. Because

2:29

it's the kind of extraordinary pet where you don't

2:31

necessarily have to name it. It's

2:34

the only hermit crab in the neighborhood or whatever.

2:36

So it's crab. Yeah, it's just crab. My crab.

2:39

Yeah, no, it was the only

2:41

crab we had in the family.

2:43

So yeah, not so difficult to

2:46

call it out. Yeah,

2:48

but I don't

2:50

know. I like crabs. I appreciate

2:53

crabs. I like the whole concept

2:55

of crab shape repeatedly

2:57

evolving in nature among different

3:00

arthropods, which is fun. Yeah.

3:03

There's a lot of cool stories

3:05

about crabs. I'm just excited.

3:07

I'm here for it. Yeah,

3:09

and a whole bunch of people suggested this

3:11

on the Discord. There was a real movement

3:13

in the polls for crabs, and it has

3:16

been really fun to research. I am more

3:18

into them now and was not quite anti

3:20

them. I just noticed an anti crab in

3:22

myself, you know, when I got going. And

3:25

it's mostly resolved. You got to work on that.

3:28

Do better. Crabs.

3:33

On every episode, our first fascinating thing about

3:35

the topic is a quick set of fascinating

3:37

numbers and statistics. This week,

3:39

that's in a segment called, There

3:42

ain't nothing short of

3:44

figures and some

3:46

facts to round them out when

3:49

it comes to learning something

3:53

stats and numbers coming

3:55

down. You

3:58

have a good one. Thank you. That

4:00

was from doc underscore lobster on

4:02

the discord so a fellow Please

4:08

submit a new name for this segment every

4:11

week They're silly and wacky and bad submit

4:13

through discord or to sip [email protected] The

4:15

the first number this week is nearly

4:23

It's just fun to say that word, huh

4:25

That's just a good explanation. Yeah,

4:27

I'm gonna go around town like and it crabs to you

4:29

and the crabs to you I'm gonna

4:31

guess that I'm gonna guess that there's nearly 7,000

4:33

species of true crabs Yeah,

4:38

that's the the number that's that one estimate

4:40

And it's a pretty rough estimate because it

4:42

turns out the world is just full of

4:44

all kinds of new crab species That we

4:46

have all the time Lots

4:48

of new crabs. I mean some things like it's

4:50

also so crustaceans that are

4:52

kind of like re-evolving into Crab

4:56

shapes or or parallel evolution

4:59

of multiple crab shaped crustaceans

5:01

Some of them are actually not

5:03

like true crabs because they started

5:05

out as a type of crustacean

5:08

That's actually maybe more closely related

5:10

to lobsters or crayfish or something

5:12

But then they make get turned

5:14

into crab because apparently the crab

5:16

shape is just very good a

5:18

very good shape And you see

5:20

that in other species as well

5:22

like other arthropods even spiders Just

5:24

like crab shape is very good.

5:26

And so I'm not surprised that

5:29

there are so many species of

5:31

crabs Yeah, and

5:33

that leads us into I think something a lot

5:35

of people are excited about and then there's more

5:37

to it Which is a quick take away number

5:39

one Many

5:44

arthropod species separately evolved to match

5:46

a crab's shape Mm-hmm,

5:49

and then many crab species separately evolved

5:51

to walk on land Yeah,

5:55

the scuttle is such a

5:57

powerful weapon in the evolutionary

5:59

arsenal That everyone's doing

6:01

it. Everyone's scuttling Yeah,

6:04

I like worldwide. It is very common

6:06

among a lot of species and then

6:08

I think I heard

6:10

a meme version of this initial

6:12

thing about crab evolution that is a little

6:15

bit more extreme than what it is because

6:17

the the term is Carsonization

6:20

and that means evolving or changing into the shape

6:22

of a crab The meme I

6:24

had heard is that like all life is going

6:26

that way and it turns out

6:28

it's mostly arthropods It's mostly yeah

6:30

some things that are a little crabby already It's

6:33

fun to joke about that like we're all

6:36

turning into crabs, but it is it is

6:38

arthropods Yeah, I

6:40

would welcome the opportunity to evolve into more

6:42

of a crab like shape That would be

6:44

fun to kind of zoidberg it up. But

6:46

yes, arthropods are the ones and

6:49

arthropods are animals from

6:52

crustaceans to scorpions

6:55

spiders Insects

6:58

those are all those are all arthropods Yeah,

7:01

I hadn't realized the family is so big.

7:03

It's big scuttly things creepy

7:06

crawly stuff Yeah, a lot

7:08

of stuff with exoskeletons and and

7:11

a lot of other species are very

7:13

closely related to crabs like scorpions and

7:15

spiders And in particular an animal we

7:17

call the horseshoe crab. Yes is kind

7:19

of considered almost more of an arachnid

7:22

Evolutionarily, but it looks crabby and it lives

7:24

in water And it's

7:26

like the in terms of like

7:29

the crab shape. There's both convergent

7:31

and parallel evolution convergent

7:33

evolution is when you have two ancestors

7:36

who did not have the same trait

7:38

and then you each like Independently evolved

7:40

it now you both have the traits

7:42

that you're converging on this

7:45

trait Whereas parallel evolution is where and your

7:47

ancestors shared that trait, but you're both

7:49

in parallel with each other Retaining

7:51

this shape so like so a

7:53

lot of conversion evolution with like the crab

7:56

shape or it's like maybe their ancestors didn't

7:58

really have They did both

8:00

have the same like crab shape but then they ended

8:02

up like coinciding upon

8:04

the crab shape. Yeah

8:08

both those processes are so amazing

8:11

because it's I know it's over millions of

8:13

years and it takes a

8:15

very very very long time beyond any of

8:18

our lifetimes but it also just feels fast

8:20

when you read about it in a book. Yeah.

8:23

It's like oh wow they just all did it

8:25

together they all met up at the train station

8:27

just in time you know. They all sort of

8:29

like decided it's Wednesday it's be a crab

8:31

day. Wednesday for crabs

8:33

day. No yeah

8:37

it is a typically very long

8:39

process evolution and so it's

8:42

interesting to see certain patterns where

8:44

you have similar shapes

8:46

or sort of like some

8:48

kind of thing that keeps

8:50

happening like basically crab shape.

8:52

When we say crab shape

8:54

right we're talking kind of

8:56

like having bilateral symmetry of

8:59

you know these two sides and then it's sort

9:01

of in an oval kind of

9:03

shape and side-to-side

9:05

movement a set of arms in

9:08

front with like pincers like that is

9:10

that is essentially the crab shape right?

9:13

Yeah and there's numbers within this

9:15

takeaway too it turns out another

9:17

key crab number is 10 and

9:20

not everything has gone this way but crabs

9:23

tend to have exactly 10 legs in five

9:25

pairs which I never noticed or thought about

9:27

but they tend to have a front two

9:29

legs with pincers on it and then the

9:32

other eight legs for walking or standing those

9:35

legs also tend to shuffle side to

9:37

side because the leg joints

9:39

are just a simple hinge pointing sideways. Right.

9:41

So kind of like we move the fastest

9:43

going forward because our knees point forward their

9:46

knees point to the side so they move

9:48

to the side. Imagine

9:50

if we could rotate our legs such that

9:52

we could point our knees to the side

9:54

and then just start walking sideways

9:56

that'd be neat. I

9:58

feel like I've seen dance crews do that

10:01

specifically. But otherwise the rest of us aren't

10:03

out here doing that. I would break several

10:06

things if I tried that, but yeah,

10:08

no, it's, it's, so that is the general thing

10:10

where the, the eight legs are used

10:12

for walking and two legs are used for pinching,

10:15

but like there are some crabs that also

10:17

use some of their walking legs for other

10:19

things. I mean, like aquatic crabs,

10:22

a lot of them, like they, they swim,

10:24

they can swim, you know, decently. Uh,

10:26

there's some crabs that have,

10:29

uh, adapted their legs for

10:31

actually certain decorator crabs that

10:33

they'll, uh, they have a pair

10:35

of legs, not for walking or

10:38

swimming, but just holding stuff, uh,

10:41

on their bodies, like a little hat

10:43

made out of, uh,

10:45

algae and just,

10:47

or spindles and like holding

10:49

it onto them. So yeah, they, they, there's

10:52

a lot of cool things that crabs use

10:54

their legs for. And they're delicious. Right.

10:57

Like it's such a central

10:59

part of a crab to many humans. They're

11:02

like, Oh, it's crab testing. I go get

11:04

those crab legs. And then it's also almost

11:06

kind of the most distinctive trade of them.

11:08

Like some of the sources I was looking

11:10

at called these animals, decapods. Decapod

11:13

means 10 legs. Deca is 10. And

11:16

so it's, it's a

11:18

really important trade, even though I'd never counted it. Yeah.

11:22

Like I said, the scuttling is

11:24

the defining characteristic of the crab.

11:27

Cause otherwise it's just a little

11:29

oval, a little desk, but

11:32

it says little legs and the little

11:34

pinchers, the little pincers, the

11:36

pin, pinchy claws that make

11:38

it crab like, yeah. And, and

11:40

like you said, these legs that they

11:42

stand on can vary in purpose. And then the

11:45

many species that we call hermit crabs

11:47

tend to have a much shorter rear

11:50

four legs because those are strong short

11:52

legs for holding the discarded shell onto

11:54

the back of their body. And

11:57

yeah, these very, but also match up.

12:00

And then with the evolution, the meme

12:03

is mostly true, right? Like, arthropods are doing

12:05

this amazing thing where many of them converge

12:08

or in a parallel way, move

12:10

toward a crab shape. They carcinize.

12:13

A lot of this meme comes

12:15

from one project by researchers at

12:17

Harvard University and Florida International University

12:20

who think that five separate groups

12:22

of decapods all evolved toward crab

12:24

shapes from different starting points, which

12:26

is amazing and a whole thing.

12:29

Right. I mean, even like hermit crabs

12:31

are not quote unquote true crabs. They're

12:33

from a separate evolutionary lineage from like

12:35

the quote unquote true crabs. And we

12:37

call them hermit crabs because they're they

12:40

look like little crabs, right? Like, I

12:42

mean, they do have stuff attached to

12:44

their butts, but still like they're so

12:46

crab like that it makes

12:48

sense that we also call them crabs, but

12:50

they come from a separate. They're all crustaceans,

12:52

right? Like they are in the same order,

12:55

but still it's very interesting that

12:57

something that is a very classic

13:00

kind of crab, the hermit crab,

13:02

is not like technically a quote

13:04

unquote true crab. Yeah,

13:06

that was that was so surprising about

13:08

the taxonomy. Like there's arthropods and then

13:11

under that is crustaceans. And then it

13:13

turns out there are a bunch of

13:15

different specific infra orders of things that

13:17

are true crabs or false crabs. And

13:19

a bunch of stuff like king crabs

13:21

are false crabs, even though they extremely

13:23

look like crabs that are eaten and

13:26

listed on menus as crabs. And like

13:28

there's a marine biologist somewhere who will

13:30

be like, these aren't crabs at crab

13:33

fest. Too bad. Gatekeeping,

13:35

crab gatekeeping. I do

13:37

love I do love the idea of false

13:39

crabs where it's like they're just wearing little

13:41

fake mustaches. It's like, you're not a crab

13:44

at all. You're a

13:46

squat lobster. Right. Like

13:48

it's a giraffe trying to hide in a tidal

13:50

pool. Like I'll just be in a crab. Clap,

13:53

clap, clap. What

13:56

crimes is that giraffe committed that it

13:58

is trying to? You have to evade

14:01

the law. Yeah,

14:05

and this key project that has

14:07

helped the internet get excited about

14:10

carcinization, some of the people

14:12

on that team did a further new study

14:14

that came out recently, November 2023,

14:16

that I kind of find

14:18

more interesting. But they did

14:20

this study looking at fossil records

14:22

and crab DNA to explore more

14:24

crab evolution. And they think

14:26

there are 17 different crab

14:28

species who initially only

14:30

lived in water and

14:33

then surprisingly recently evolved to also

14:35

walk on land. By

14:39

recently, what do you mean? What time scale? Within

14:42

the last 100 million years. Yes, there

14:44

we go. So

14:48

like yesterday, basically. Yeah, essentially. I

14:50

believe it's now. Like as we're

14:52

taping, probably, getting out of the water.

14:57

Like a little crab testing a little toe.

15:00

They don't really have toes, but testing a

15:02

little like, dry. Do I

15:04

like dry? I

15:06

don't know if I like dry. Yeah,

15:09

like apparently the name for that

15:11

thing that I think of as

15:13

a cartoon fish walking on land,

15:15

the name for that is terrestrialization.

15:17

Terrestrialization. Yeah,

15:20

apparently most species that have done

15:22

that at all did that more

15:24

than 300 million years ago.

15:27

And so these crab species doing it within the last 100

15:29

million years, that suggests

15:31

that maybe we can learn more about

15:33

terrestrialization from them because it's an interesting

15:35

and different timeline. Take

15:37

a little microphone and say like, why did you

15:39

decide to come on land? Some

15:43

crabs spend some time under the water

15:45

and some time like on land somewhere

15:47

like almost completely on land now. There

15:50

are some that like come on land,

15:52

but then stay mostly like on the

15:54

shoreline and then like they like to

15:56

bury themselves in the sand and it's

15:58

super cute. at Sandy

16:00

Hut. So there's all sorts of,

16:02

I know it's so cute. And

16:04

some that will live on land, but

16:07

then go back to the

16:09

ocean to reproduce, like Christmas Island crabs do

16:11

this kind of migration where they're on land

16:13

and they live sort of in moist

16:16

forest floors most of the time, but then

16:18

they do this mass migration out to the

16:20

sea to reproduce. And

16:22

then all these babies, once they

16:25

hatch, do another mass migration back

16:27

onto land. So it's very cool

16:29

that there's all sorts of different pipes

16:31

of land living for crabs.

16:35

And yeah, and that's part of why the study is so

16:37

interesting. It's exactly like you

16:39

say, a lot of them still have some

16:41

particular relationship to water. And then apparently

16:44

of those 17 species that

16:46

terrestrialized, a few

16:48

of them returned to living exclusively

16:51

in water. Like this

16:53

was a fad or a phase. And

16:55

then they said, that was all right, but there's not that

16:57

much food up here. And I like it underwater and I'm

16:59

out. But I'd like the dry. I didn't like

17:02

the dry. It was too dry. They're

17:04

not wrong. Pretty dry up here. Pretty dry. I

17:07

feel. Using a lot of gurgins.

17:12

Did anyone tell the crabs about gurgins?

17:14

Then they might've stayed. I

17:18

mean, that's kind of, I mean, in

17:20

a more, it's sort of a more

17:22

short evolutionary timescale of like what happened

17:25

with cetaceans like whales, like, you know,

17:27

they are mammals, terrestrial mammals. And then

17:29

they're like, eh, it's too dry. Going

17:32

back, we're going back. And they

17:34

did it slowly evolve back into

17:36

aquatic creatures. Although, you know, they

17:38

are still mammals. They still gotta

17:40

be there and all their adaptations,

17:43

they still retained all

17:45

these mammalian traits, but now they are fully

17:49

swimming in the ocean, like dolphins,

17:51

orcas, baleen whales. They all came

17:53

from a common ancestor. Yeah,

17:56

and it's so wild studying that

17:59

process. consultations could tell

18:01

us about the processing crabs or the other

18:03

way around and with all sorts of other

18:05

species that We're in or out of

18:07

water at some point hundreds of millions of years ago

18:09

I say you just don't think of them relating at

18:11

all, but that's one way I imagine

18:14

like sort of the personification

18:17

of evolution Getting frustrated

18:19

when animals can't decide whether they want to go in

18:21

or out of the water Like you just came you

18:23

just came out of water. You want to come back

18:25

in? It's like we're a bunch of

18:27

cats Crabs

18:30

like to do both sometimes Yeah

18:33

That brings us kind of back into more

18:35

numbers because as much as

18:38

there's carcinization toward crab shape in

18:40

many species then there's this

18:43

astounding blossoming of all sorts of different

18:45

crab species and nearly

18:47

7,000 of them approximately in the

18:49

world and We just

18:52

keep finding them all the time One

18:54

source this week is the book walking sideways

18:57

the remarkable world of crabs That's

18:59

by Judith s Weiss professor biology at

19:01

Rutgers University Newark She

19:03

says there was one project where a

19:06

global network of researchers Did

19:08

expeditions across ten years to try to

19:10

create what they call the census of

19:12

marine life they finished in 2010 And

19:15

they turned up 65 new species of

19:17

just crabs Within all their

19:20

other discoveries and things there's

19:22

also a 2011 survey by a Smithsonian

19:24

team They looked at seven

19:26

sections of dead coral in a few

19:28

oceans and in just those bits

19:30

of coral they found 168

19:33

new species of crabs They're not

19:35

even really trying to find that yes, it's just

19:37

around They get everywhere

19:39

though. There's this thing that is

19:41

always fascinated me Which is there

19:44

is this tiny species of crab

19:46

that lives in the

19:48

bromeliad? which is a type of

19:51

flowering plant and Jamaica

19:54

they they live on trees and

19:57

they're just sort of this like it's a sleepy

19:59

flower flowering plant, but then what happens

20:01

is because it kind of forms this

20:03

basin in the plant, it collects water.

20:07

And so something like this tiny

20:09

crab can actually live in the

20:12

bromeliad. There are other species that

20:14

sometimes live in these like frogs,

20:16

but it is really incredible that

20:20

a crab can be like, yeah, I'll

20:22

live in this wet flower in Jamaica.

20:25

Why not? I love

20:27

that. I mean, apparently

20:29

that's not the only crab sort

20:32

of doing that kind of thing. There's

20:34

also a new species discovered 2017 in the

20:36

forests of South India in the western Gats

20:41

mountain range. And

20:43

it's a species that lives in the hollows

20:45

of trees that fill with water and heavy

20:47

rainfall. Oh, amazing. They just found packets of

20:49

water. I haven't even heard of that one.

20:52

I'm a huge crab fan and I'm

20:55

still learning about crabs because there's too many

20:57

crabs. There are. It's

21:00

like there is a bonkers amount of diversity,

21:02

even though I just think of the one

21:04

red one that crab restaurants, there's

21:06

so many. One red one. Mr.

21:09

Krabs is the only crab I know. But

21:12

it's so cute. They're just like, I'm going to

21:14

live in a twee and just

21:16

like inside a tree where there's water

21:19

inside. It's like crabs are

21:21

sort of the crustacean version of

21:24

frogs where it's just they love

21:27

being places that are cute.

21:32

Cute and like moist, like frogs. Cute and moist.

21:35

If it's moist here, I can crab it up.

21:37

I can do it. So

21:40

cute. Yeah,

21:43

that Indian one, it's got

21:45

scientific name, Kani Maranjandu and

21:47

no common name yet. The

21:49

first word is Kani because this was

21:51

first observed by the Kani native people

21:54

of that part of South India. And then like other

21:57

university scientists came around later based

21:59

on that. their observations. It's always

22:02

important to listen to local observations, especially when it

22:04

comes to crabs. Yeah. So

22:06

many of these little guys, and they're very

22:09

diverse too, like even though they all kind

22:11

of tend to have that basic crab shape,

22:14

defines them, they all have such

22:16

different adaptations and different behaviors. Yeah,

22:20

and the other maybe biggest variety is

22:22

the size, because even if they're all

22:24

kind of a similar shape, the

22:27

number here for the smallest crab

22:29

is the pea crab species. Pee,

22:31

like a vegetable, PEA. And

22:34

the whole body is about one-third of

22:36

an inch wide, less than 0.85 centimeters.

22:38

And we'll have a picture

22:43

of it just on somebody's like fingertip. It's pretty small.

22:46

I know one of you, smart

22:48

Alex out there, is gonna say

22:51

like isn't the smallest species of crab,

22:53

you know, crabs like the... Oh, like

22:57

the life you get. Like the life you get. Hucking

22:59

up with people. Yeah. Yeah, the thing is

23:01

that's an interesting observation, because

23:03

those are not crabs obviously, but they

23:06

are arthropods, right? And as we mentioned

23:08

earlier, arthropods do often evolve this kind

23:10

of crab shape, even if they're not

23:13

crabs, as in the true crabs and

23:15

the crustacean subphylum. But like it is

23:20

kind of funny because like yeah, they're

23:22

a type of parasitic arthropod, the

23:25

sexually transmitted crabs, but

23:28

they are not really crabs. But

23:30

they kind of look a little bit like tiny,

23:32

gross crabs. Right, that's

23:34

such an interesting thing to clarify, because

23:36

it's not totally just a weird thing

23:38

sex people are saying, you know? It's

23:40

sort of like how scorpions and

23:43

lobsters do look similar, right? Like

23:45

well yeah, they're both arthropods. They

23:48

are related. Yeah. They evolve similar

23:50

traits. They come from a similar

23:52

ancestor and they evolve similar traits.

23:56

Yeah, the world of arthropods, man. It's

23:58

so varied. We did

24:00

the small crab number. Here's the big

24:02

crab number. The world's largest crab is

24:04

the Japanese spider crab. And

24:07

just the carapace is more than one foot

24:09

wide. The full leg span is up to

24:11

12 feet. Wow.

24:14

So more than three and a half meters. It

24:17

can give you a hug like

24:19

twice, wrap its arms around you,

24:21

like, uh, all the

24:23

way twice, which I don't love. I

24:27

tolerate crabs very well. I like

24:29

them. But when it's like,

24:31

when its legs are like twice

24:33

as tall as I am, that's upsetting,

24:35

I don't know. Yeah.

24:37

I don't need it in my house or

24:40

whatever. Yeah. That's cool. But you know, is

24:42

there a prize for the most swole

24:44

crab, which I think is like the

24:46

coconut crab, just the chunkiest, puffest, beefiest

24:49

crab? It's not technically the

24:51

biggest, but I think that giant, the

24:53

giant, uh, Japanese crab is like, uh,

24:56

kind of spindly, but like the coconut crab is

24:58

just like muscular. Exactly

25:01

correct. Yeah. Beefiest crab. That was

25:03

the next number is that the coconut

25:05

crab, which is a species of land

25:07

crab, it's large and strong enough to

25:09

live lift 60 pounds of weight. And

25:13

it doesn't always eat coconuts, but that's the

25:15

name origin. Is it'll like bust open a

25:17

coconut with its might? Yeah. It's

25:19

got a lot of PSIs, uh,

25:22

with its, uh, claw strength. Yeah.

25:24

More than 27 kilograms. It can lift 60

25:27

pounds. That's incredible. Yeah. It's

25:30

a crab, a big, scary beefy

25:32

crab. And also speaking of

25:34

food, I had wondered what a soft shell

25:36

crab is. Cause I've heard of that from

25:38

food. I'm linking food and

25:40

wine magazine about it. They say that that's

25:43

just kind of a different stage of a

25:45

regular crab's life because

25:47

arthropods have an exoskeleton, both for protection and

25:49

to kind of hold their bodies together. And

25:53

they will molt that usually each year. It

25:55

depends on the species. And

25:57

so a soft shell crab is just a crab that

25:59

we capture. before it regrew

26:01

its exoskeleton so we can eat

26:03

it in that particular state. And it's

26:06

like, no, I'm naked. No, I'm

26:09

naked. It's kind of rude. Exactly.

26:11

And, you know, yeah, it is pretty rude. That's rude

26:13

and kind of perverted for us to

26:15

bust in on a crab as it's

26:17

changing outfits. And

26:19

it's like covering its little crab

26:22

body with its claws and going like, don't look

26:24

at me, I'm naked. And

26:26

they can't find a robe for themselves. You can't get

26:28

a robe if you're a crab. They don't make that.

26:31

Another amazing number about eating crabs is 90,000

26:34

years ago. 9-0, 90,000 years ago. That's

26:40

how long ago we think there's

26:42

evidence of Neanderthals eating crabs. What's

26:46

the evidence like, like an

26:48

old sort of like bib, prehistoric

26:50

bib with a crab on it? Just

26:55

crab fests carved into some kind

26:58

of stone and Flintstones font. Yeah,

27:01

this is a Spanish university study from 2023.

27:05

They found shell pieces from the

27:07

brown crab species in caves in

27:09

what's now Portugal. And

27:11

it might be the oldest evidence of humans

27:13

eating shellfish. It goes back a long way.

27:17

I guess it's stretching it even calling

27:19

Neanderthals humans. This is a very, very

27:21

old practice for species like us. Yeah,

27:24

they're our cousins and we do have

27:26

some Neanderthal DNA because there was a

27:29

little bit of hanky-panky between our homo

27:32

sapiens and Neanderthals. So,

27:34

you know, they're not like our

27:36

ancestors in the sense of like

27:38

humans did not evolve from Neanderthals.

27:42

But we were, we co-existed at

27:44

a point and we were evolutionary

27:46

cousins. We've got some Neanderthal

27:48

DNA. Good for us.

27:50

Yeah. Good for us. And good for

27:52

them. Our cousins ate them and we probably ate

27:55

them too. Yeah. This topic is global. Crabs are

27:57

in all of the world's oceans. They're all in

27:59

the ocean. also in freshwater, also in

28:01

brackish water, and then there are

28:03

land species. And so we just

28:06

think that all early human communities

28:08

ate crabs if that was convenient.

28:11

Like, they weren't going long distances to do it, but

28:13

it's an easier and safer source

28:15

of protein to hunt than many

28:17

other animals. And so anybody living

28:20

near a place where crabs live, probably ate

28:22

them. Yeah, it's just,

28:24

they're so pinchy. I wonder, like, at

28:27

what point did we get beyond the

28:29

pinch and the spindliness and

28:31

realize that there was meat

28:34

in them bones? Yeah,

28:36

possibly 90,000 years ago or more. Like

28:39

good for us. That's kind of a, I feel

28:41

like that's a big insight if you don't know anything

28:43

yet. You know what I mean? Like that's a pretty

28:46

good leap. That's pretty good work. I wonder if we just ate

28:48

them raw or if we cooked them. Probably

28:50

started off eating them raw, but ugh. Ugh.

28:53

Right, like just grabbing it like it's a

28:56

weird bagel, like ow, just you know. Yeah,

28:58

like this bagel keeps pinching my face.

29:02

The world's first brioche. And

29:08

then one more number for the numbers section

29:10

jumping much closer to our time. It's

29:12

the year 1956. 1956

29:16

is when an American medical

29:18

researcher discovered that horseshoe

29:20

crab blood contains a

29:23

useful component for testing drugs

29:25

and vaccines. It's

29:27

also an eerie shade of blue,

29:30

which is interesting. And it's blue. It's

29:33

blue. Yeah, no, we have

29:35

horseshoe crabs to thank for a lot

29:37

of our vaccine production. Yeah,

29:40

it turns out. And we just kind

29:42

of didn't have that help before. There

29:45

was an American medical researcher named Frederick Bang.

29:47

He discovered that horseshoe crab

29:49

blood has amoebocytes. If

29:52

a drug or vaccine has been contaminated

29:54

with a kind of bacteria called an

29:57

endotoxin, the amoebocytes in

29:59

horseshoe crab blood will react to that

30:01

and form solid blood.

30:05

And the US FDA approved

30:07

using that in 1977. Europe

30:12

approved a synthetic version in 2016, but

30:15

the US hasn't. And for

30:17

several decades, we've been using many, many

30:19

gallons of harvested horseshoe crab blood to

30:21

test all kinds of drugs and vaccines.

30:23

And it was a key part of

30:26

COVID vaccines. Yeah. I

30:28

mean, it's one of those things where they

30:30

actually don't have to kill the horseshoe crabs

30:33

to get the blood. They can harvest the

30:35

blood from the crabs. The problem

30:37

is if you harvest

30:40

blood from a crab, a horseshoe crab,

30:42

and then release it, it actually does

30:45

impact its chance of survival

30:47

and chance of reproduction. You

30:49

know, I mean, imagine if a Dracula just

30:52

sucked a bunch of your blood, you're not

30:54

immediately going to have the energy to go

30:56

out and hook up or take care of

30:58

yourself. You might just

31:00

like keel over and die. But,

31:04

you know, so it is, I think

31:06

it is a good

31:08

thing to switch to a synthetic version as

31:10

long as it's doing the same

31:12

job as the horseshoe crab blood.

31:14

But yeah, it's, I mean, until we

31:16

do that, it is very important to make

31:18

vaccines really safe, to check for any kind

31:21

of impurities. Yeah. And

31:23

there's, especially on the East Coast of

31:25

the US, a lot of capture of

31:27

horseshoe crabs draining of their blood. And

31:29

early in this process, we thought it

31:32

was totally fine. Like they thought only about 3% of

31:35

them proceeded to die from this experience.

31:38

And for their study, so it's more like 30%. Yeah.

31:41

So conservation groups are now trying

31:43

to kind of push for a

31:45

more sustainable approach to this and

31:48

we think if technology can replace it, but we'll

31:51

link National Geographic. They have a picture

31:53

of a facility where a row of

31:55

horseshoe crabs are having blood removed into

31:57

these like containers of blue blood. It's

32:00

pretty dystopian if you sympathize with the

32:03

horseshoe crabs Yeah,

32:05

it's very the other side

32:07

of the matrix Sorry

32:09

guys Maybe

32:11

we should call them crab scenes instead of

32:14

vaccines Did

32:18

you actually like vaccine comes from the

32:20

word cow Vodka

32:25

because of how like, you know the

32:27

the Early development

32:29

of vaccines through the

32:31

cowpox of virus inoculating

32:34

people against small smallpox That's

32:37

so cool. Wow an Italian

32:39

the word for cow and vaccine is the same

32:42

thing that Chino Good

32:44

for good for Italian making it really clear, right?

32:46

Yeah, don't don't lose track of that heritage But

32:48

it is confusing sometimes cuz like I'm

32:50

here for my flu vaccine and then

32:53

they just give me a sick cow Right

32:56

and then you have to walk at home. You have to find a

32:58

bell Always need a bell

33:00

per cow, you know, jeez. Yeah The

33:03

amount of tissues a sick cow goes through

33:05

is a lot There's

33:11

there's a couple of board takeaways for this

33:13

main episode and the next one is take

33:15

away number two Many

33:20

hermit crabs choose to turn

33:22

human trash into homes, especially

33:24

plastic trash. Yeah, this

33:27

is both sad and cute squoot

33:31

Scad it's a cute. It's

33:34

scad. I'm feeling scad right now

33:37

Yeah, maybe the cow wasn't sick. It was

33:39

just scad, you know, maybe just emotional the

33:41

tissues are for feelings verklempt

33:45

Yeah And

33:48

the pictures here are Astounding they

33:50

truly are scad. Yes I

33:52

think the one thing most of us know about hermit

33:54

crabs Even if we haven't owned them like Katie has

33:57

is that they live in a shell or another aquatic thing

33:59

that they find And more

34:01

and more we are discovering, especially

34:04

thanks to better cameras on the internet, that

34:07

a lot of hermit crabs are making the best of

34:09

human junk as something to put on their

34:12

bodies. Yeah, I mean, part of it is if

34:14

there's a lot of litter, they're going to use

34:16

what's around. And part

34:18

of it is if it's harder to find

34:20

shells, right, like maybe because of trawling or

34:22

other sort of issues where

34:24

there are fewer shells for them to use, they're going

34:26

to resort to using litter. Yeah. And

34:29

hermit crabs really are the progenitors

34:31

of if it sits, I said,

34:33

like they, as they grow, they

34:35

don't grow their own shell. So

34:37

as they grow, they have to

34:39

replace the shell. And so

34:41

they climb out of their old shell and

34:44

then find one that is of the right size. And

34:46

they can be fairly picky about it, right? Like it

34:49

can't be too big and it can't be too small.

34:52

Sometimes there are these chains of crabs where

34:54

one crab is moving

34:56

out of its shell. And

34:58

so like it goes a size

35:00

up, but then there's like a

35:02

chain of crabs basically swapping shells like

35:04

a big one is going into a

35:06

bigger shell. So a smaller one is

35:08

going into the old shell. And so

35:10

you just have this lineup of crabs

35:13

all exchanging shells. But like,

35:15

yeah, I know in this case, they

35:17

are using bottle caps, broken light bulbs,

35:21

a lot of creative sort of

35:23

things that are vaguely shell shaped,

35:26

probably not as good in terms of

35:29

actually protecting them though. Just

35:31

imagining a crab realtor for like

35:34

finding apartments. That's

35:36

really lingering in my head now because yeah, they're just

35:38

making these trades all the time. Apparently

35:41

they trade every about 12 to 18

35:43

months. They'll switch shells

35:45

or other items. Even they either they outgrow

35:47

it or it's damaged or maybe they think

35:49

there's a more advantageous shell than what they've

35:51

got. Yeah. Another

35:54

problem with like these sort of like, even

35:56

though it's extremely cute to see a hermit

35:58

crab using a bottle. cap as a shell.

36:02

Even though that in particular doesn't necessarily hurt

36:04

the crab, there are cases where there's a

36:06

lot of litter. And so

36:08

you'll have one hermit crab go inside

36:10

of like say a glass or plastic

36:12

bottle because they're checking it

36:15

out to see if this is like a new

36:17

home. But then they kind of keep crawling in

36:19

it and then they go into the bottle,

36:21

but the sides are slippery so it can't

36:23

get out and then it

36:25

dies. And this thing that

36:27

happens when a hermit crab dies is

36:30

there is a chemical produced

36:32

during its decomposition that actually signals to other

36:34

hermit crabs that a hermit crab died. And

36:36

so other hermit crabs come to

36:38

the dead hermit crab to potentially

36:41

take its old shell, right? Like, well, you're

36:43

dead. You're not using your shell anymore. I

36:45

might as well take it if I can

36:47

smell that you're dead over here. And so

36:50

you have this like cycle of death of

36:52

hermit crabs that keep crawling

36:54

into like these plastic or glass

36:56

containers because they smell the other

36:58

crab is like free house. Oh

37:01

no, free house. Oh no. So

37:04

then you'll just find these jugs of

37:06

like dead crabs. It's very morbid and

37:08

sad. I know

37:10

it probably doesn't fit like the scientific

37:12

meaning of the word social, but it's

37:14

a whole community activity kind of thing,

37:17

right? Like that's so strange

37:19

to think about. Wow. Yeah.

37:21

Cause like they can sometimes compete for

37:23

shells and stuff, but sometimes it's more

37:25

cooperative. Like I said, like the shell

37:27

exchange where it's like, well, if you

37:29

see a big crab getting out of

37:31

its old shell, but you're a little

37:33

smaller than that one, then maybe you

37:35

take it, it's shell and you shed

37:37

yours and then maybe a smaller crab

37:39

takes your old shell, right? Like, so

37:42

yeah, in some sense it is kind

37:44

of an interesting sort of social exchange.

37:47

And the need for a home at all is

37:49

just so weird too. Hermit crabs

37:51

basically have two kinds of exoskeleton.

37:53

Their front half is a hard

37:55

and tough shell and then their

37:58

back half is much softer. designed

38:00

to flex and accommodate being placed

38:02

in a container. They're built to

38:04

be seeking out these homes. And

38:07

then because of human refuse, there's

38:09

more and more useful stuff from

38:11

people. They don't just have to

38:13

use the shells of snails or

38:16

natural items like tree nuts. They're apparently

38:18

hermit crabs near Okinawa that use tree

38:20

nuts from that island. But

38:23

more and more crabs are using especially bottle

38:25

caps, also the metal bottoms of light bulbs.

38:28

Kind of reminds me of like

38:30

octopus behavior. There are these coconut

38:32

octopuses who use coconut shells as

38:35

like temporary shells that they'll carry

38:37

around with them as protection. Octopuses

38:40

and squid and stuff, they

38:42

actually have ancestors that had

38:44

shells. They're related to nautiluses

38:46

who have shells. And

38:49

like their ancestors used to have sort of like

38:51

a hard shell.

38:53

But then they evolved to not have

38:56

a shell so that they could squeeze into

38:58

tight places, both in terms of

39:00

hiding, but also in terms of hunting. So

39:03

then like some species of

39:05

octopus have gone sort of hermit

39:07

crab style where they like take

39:10

things like shells or coconuts and then

39:12

use them to sort of protect their

39:15

soft bodies while still being

39:17

able to have sort of the flexibility

39:19

of having a soft body. Although with

39:21

hermit crabs, it seems like really

39:23

it's about the superior protection of

39:26

the shell versus what they could

39:28

achieve through their hard exoskeleton. Because

39:30

like that vulnerable period of a

39:32

crab's life where they're soft

39:34

shelled because they are going through

39:36

shedding their exoskeleton. Now

39:38

they have like a thing like a

39:40

shell that permanently protects them even if

39:43

they are at a stage where they're

39:45

vulnerable and shedding their exoskeleton. Yeah,

39:48

they get to kind of make so

39:50

many choices. They're not just on

39:52

the biological cycle. That's cool. Very

39:55

cool. We also know more

39:57

about this than ever before thanks to

39:59

the internet. There's a

40:01

new Polish university study that was published

40:03

February 2024, very recently, and

40:08

they did not send a

40:10

team out to see. They

40:12

indexed images in scientific journals

40:14

as well as image uploads

40:16

to flickr.com, Google Images, iNaturalist,

40:19

Alamee Stock Photos, and YouTube

40:21

thumbnails. And based on

40:23

that data set, they think plastic is far

40:25

and away the favorite trash for her mitt

40:27

crabs. They estimate of all

40:29

trash shells for crabs, about 85% are

40:31

plastic compared to just 5% metal,

40:34

5% glass, and 5% mixed

40:37

materials. Is that

40:39

just because there's more abundance of

40:41

plastic or are they specifically choosing

40:44

the plastic? They think it

40:46

might be both, yeah, because there is so much

40:49

plastic in the ocean, it's a really

40:51

abundant form of trash. And then also

40:53

hermit crabs might even prefer plastic in

40:56

some cases because it's more durable than

40:58

some shells and also lighter weight than

41:00

some shells at the same time. We

41:03

need a crab focus group. We

41:06

need to really see what

41:08

products these crabs prefer. You

41:11

know that? That's the other weird thing about

41:13

the name hermit crab. These crabs clearly hang out all of

41:15

the time. And we call

41:17

them hermit crabs, like there's some loner in the woods,

41:19

you know? They

41:21

definitely seem like they would be down for a focus group.

41:25

Just like one coffee and donuts in the corner,

41:27

they're there. Great.

41:30

Yeah. One of them is trying to see if they fit

41:32

inside the donut. Yeah,

41:37

and then the one other thing is we

41:40

think some hermit crab species, the

41:43

shell or whatever they pick up might be

41:45

involved in sexual signaling and being more attractive

41:47

to other hermit crabs. And

41:49

so with plastic being brightly colored or

41:51

interesting shapes, maybe there's something there. It's

41:54

so weird how humans have

41:57

shaped animals evolution in the world.

41:59

in such indirect

42:01

ways sometimes. Yeah,

42:04

they didn't plan on any of this. And it's that

42:06

plastic trash in the ocean is from the last 100

42:08

years. It's so recent that they're

42:10

dealing with this now. It's like

42:13

how bower birds, which are

42:15

these birds that create these

42:17

elaborate displays, usually use berries

42:19

and flowers. But now

42:21

it's like human trash around sometimes. They'll

42:23

pick up some brightly colored human trash and

42:26

carry it over and use it as part

42:28

of their mating displays to attract females, yeah.

42:31

Yeah. I am glad they're making

42:33

the best of that. And we should do better. And they're making

42:35

the best of it. And

42:38

we have one more huge takeaway for

42:40

this main episode. We'll come to it

42:42

after a short break and get into

42:44

some really, really weird human crab stuff.

42:47

Human crab, human crab.

42:52

It sounded like a hybrid being of creative.

42:56

We are the human crab people. We

43:00

demand little pieces of

43:03

white stuff that floats in the ocean

43:05

to eat. Put

43:08

it on one side of me, not in front of me, not

43:10

in front of me. That's more annoying than me. My

43:26

name's Doug Dugay, and I'm here to talk about

43:28

my podcast in the middle of the one you're

43:31

listening to. It's called Valley Heat, and it's about

43:33

my neighborhood, the Burbank Rancho Equestrian District, the center

43:35

of the world when it comes to foosball, frisbee

43:37

golf, and high speed freeway roller skating. And there's

43:39

been a jaguar parked outside on my curb for

43:41

10 months. I have no idea who owns it.

43:44

I have a feeling it's related to the drug

43:46

drop that was happening in my garbage can a

43:48

little over a year ago. And if

43:50

this has been a boring commercial, imagine 45 minutes of

43:52

it. OK, Valley Heat.

43:54

It's on every month on maximumfund.org

43:57

or wherever you get podcasts. Check it out.

43:59

But honest. Please skip it. This

44:02

is the event you're thinking, please, please, in my house, out

44:04

around my house. Hello

44:11

sleepyheads. Sleeping with

44:13

celebrities is your podcast pillow pal.

44:16

We talked to remarkable people about

44:18

unremarkable topics, all to help you

44:21

slow down your brain and drift off

44:23

to sleep. For instance, we

44:25

have the remarkable Neil Gaiman.

44:28

I'd always had a

44:30

vague interest in life culture,

44:32

food preparation. Sleeping

44:35

with celebrities hosted by me, John

44:37

Moe, on maximumfund.org

44:40

or wherever you get your podcasts. Night

44:43

night. And

44:45

we are back with one last giant takeaway

44:47

for the main episode because takeaway number three.

44:53

The names for crabs and for

44:55

medical cancers come from ancient

44:58

Greece and from the mythology

45:00

equivalent of a video game grunt. What?

45:05

I didn't comprehend that. Yeah.

45:08

And grunt is like the lowest level easiest enemy

45:10

to beat in a video game. Like you just

45:12

knock them out easily. One more time. The

45:14

name for crabs and for medical

45:16

cancers comes from ancient Greece and

45:19

from the mythology equivalent of a video game.

45:23

This gets into the word cancer being like

45:26

a zodiac sign that's a crab and the

45:28

connection between the word crab and the word

45:30

cancer and all that lore

45:32

about it. Yeah. Like

45:35

carcinization becoming more crab-like and

45:37

carcinogenic meaning causing cancer, both

45:40

being very similar words as

45:42

well. Yeah. And

45:46

I had always wondered what's going on

45:48

there. Why are crabs and cancer?

45:50

Yeah, cancer. Yeah. The

45:52

zodiac sign is what got me because it's like, wait,

45:55

can't you can have cancer as

45:57

your zodiac sign? That's, that's morbid.

46:00

It's like a cute little crab. Yeah,

46:02

I remember learning that Greek zodiac and thinking,

46:04

I'm glad I'm not in that month, even

46:06

though it's fine. It's totally fine. But the

46:08

vibes are off, you know? But it

46:10

turns out there's a reason why. Yeah,

46:13

cancer was named after that, not the other

46:15

way around. Exactly, yeah. And

46:18

there's key sources here are a piece

46:20

for space.com by Rebecca Sohn at

46:23

the NPR show Science Friday, hosted by

46:25

Ira Flato interviewing medical historian Howard Markle,

46:27

and then digital resources

46:29

from Tufts University and from the

46:32

NASA Chandra X-ray Observatory. Crabs

46:35

are called crabs in English because of

46:37

words in the ancient Greek language with

46:39

roots in mythology. And the

46:41

big myth here is the 12 labors of Hercules.

46:44

This was a whole story cycle in

46:46

Greek mythology about Hercules doing 12

46:49

seemingly impossible things. Like

46:51

scuttling like a crab with one of them, like

46:53

do it. It's just the gods being eaten. Now,

46:56

quirk like a chicken. Yeah,

47:00

so Hercules basically has to

47:02

do these labors because

47:04

of his parentage. Hercules was the

47:07

son of the god Zeus, who

47:09

hooked up with a human woman. And

47:11

Zeus did this constantly, and this upset

47:13

his wife, the goddess Hera. That

47:16

stinks. And also, I kind of resent all

47:18

of the children from these situations. Yeah,

47:21

she always got her anger out

47:23

on either the woman or the

47:26

children in the affair,

47:28

which I think is not cool, Hera,

47:30

because I think the

47:32

common denominator is your husband. Right.

47:35

Is a bit of a floozy. Yeah,

47:38

and this story starts very

47:40

dark, because what happens is

47:42

Hera says, I just don't like Hercules, so

47:45

I'm going to make him lose his mind and

47:47

kill his wife and children and

47:50

then snap out of it and feel horrible

47:52

and sad. Yeah. It's

47:55

one of these really brutal Greek myths. Just

47:57

like the gods making

47:59

your life. lives miserable. And

48:01

the lesson is sometimes this happens and

48:04

you can't do anything about

48:07

it. Right. It's astonishingly

48:09

dark, right? You can see how other

48:11

faiths rolled in like the Christians and

48:13

it's like, that's more positive. I mean,

48:15

cool. Yeah.

48:18

So then Hercules says, I feel horrible.

48:20

He asks the Oracle of Delphi how he can

48:23

atone and they say, if you do these 12

48:25

labors, you'll feel better. And

48:28

then, so then it's this whole cycle of stories

48:30

where he's doing these

48:32

challenges. There are some sympathetic gods

48:34

helping him and then still opposition

48:37

from some antagonistic gods like Hera.

48:40

One labor is to battle the Hydra, which

48:43

is a huge monster. I think pretty famous. And

48:46

you like cut off the head and it grows more

48:48

heads. Is that sort of the idea? Yeah.

48:51

And so the main story is that

48:53

Hercules attacks this Hydra and then he

48:56

needs a friend to like burn and

48:58

cauterize the head stumps in

49:00

order for him to cut off the heads and then kill

49:02

it. And so within that

49:05

incredibly exciting battle story, Hera

49:07

says, I'm going to make it harder. And

49:09

so this character doesn't even get credited as

49:11

a labor or anything, but she

49:14

sends in a crab. She's

49:16

like, go attack Hercules and distract him from

49:18

the Hydra mid fight. Do

49:21

I like, do I like pain ship? Do you want me

49:23

to, do I want me to

49:25

pain ship? That would

49:27

be a good voice for this character because

49:29

this is the origin of like cancer in

49:31

the zodiac and everything. She sends

49:34

in a crab and the

49:36

Greeks called him Carquinos. Then

49:38

that got like Latinized and anglicized

49:40

and eventually became cancer. But

49:43

Carquinos is a crab sent by Hera

49:45

to attack Hercules in the middle of

49:47

the Hydrafate. And the crab

49:50

bites him on the foot and

49:52

then he immediately just squishes it and moves on.

49:54

That's how, that's all the crabs could do. All

49:58

right, I'm just, I'm just going to pinch him. big

50:00

fella. All right, I pinched ya. Why

50:02

are you looking at me like that? I just pinched

50:05

ya. She told me you gotta pinch

50:07

ya. It's a

50:09

really pathetic kind of thing. It's just

50:11

a crab that pinches them. That's it?

50:13

A normal sized crab? Yeah,

50:16

like in the story it doesn't even seem to be very

50:18

big. Just a normal sized crab.

50:20

Like it's not bigger than

50:23

especially the larger species of

50:25

real crabs. It's just a

50:27

crab. And then what

50:29

happens is in the aftermath of

50:31

this bigger battle, Hera

50:33

feels bad and says, I'm sorry

50:35

I really pointlessly sent you in there, Kharkinos.

50:37

I'm going to lift you up into the

50:40

stars and you'll be part of the Zodiac.

50:42

Apologies for wasting your life on a really

50:44

bad strategy on my part. Bad move. Yeah,

50:47

it's no sweat. Can

50:52

I pinch people when I'm

50:55

made out of stars? Is that something I can do?

50:57

Because I'm really good at pinching. That's kind of my

50:59

thing. Just

51:03

pinching Capricorn. Capricorn's like, what are you

51:05

doing? Hey. Pinch. Is

51:08

that a supernova? I have pinched

51:11

Scorpio. Well,

51:15

I guess there's multiple arthropods in the Zodiac. I hadn't

51:17

thought about that. There is. A

51:20

big arthropod scene. I'm a

51:22

Scorpio. I've done nothing to ever learn

51:24

about what that's supposed to mean. It's

51:27

just cool because I like scorpions. Yeah,

51:31

that's pretty good. Yeah, I'm an Aries. A

51:33

ram is cool, you know? Yeah, you know.

51:35

Intimate. Cool. So,

51:37

yeah, I hope that's exciting for people

51:40

who are astrologically cancerous. It's the specific

51:42

story of a crab. But

51:44

then how did it

51:46

go from meaning this

51:49

guy that gets squished by Zeus

51:52

into the disease cancer?

51:54

Because I would think cancer would be

51:56

called a hydra, right? Because that feels

51:58

more cancerous. you're chopping off heads

52:00

and it keeps called

52:19

this and the myth. That's also a creative

52:25

name. And what

52:27

happens is maybe the

52:29

most famous Greek doctor comes

52:31

along, a guy called Hippocrates.

52:33

Hippocrates. Yeah, he's the guy from the

52:35

Hippocratic Oath sworn by doctors today. And

52:38

Hippocrates, he lived around the year 400

52:41

BC. He's examining people with

52:43

tumors, which we don't really understand yet,

52:46

but he for some reason applied

52:48

the name Carquinos to the tumors.

52:51

That crab name and crab

52:53

character name, he says, I'm

52:55

calling these Carquinos too. Why?

52:58

We have theories. Yeah.

53:00

And like, the weird guy.

53:03

All the theories are different

53:05

synonyms for kooky, crazy, wacky,

53:07

like, oh, that's just it.

53:10

Yeah. But

53:12

so according to his medical historian, Howard

53:15

Markle, it could be because

53:17

the tumors often felt hard to the

53:19

touch, sort of like the hard shell

53:21

of a crab. It also could

53:23

be a little metaphorical related to

53:25

crabs having pincers. So the pain of

53:28

a tumor attack. Yes. Another

53:30

guess is that tumors are stubborn and hard

53:32

to remove. Oh, like

53:34

the crab in my armpit. Yeah,

53:37

that's the story I think about now. Yeah. Yeah.

53:39

I guess I'd rather a hermit crab than

53:41

a tumor. Check your lymph nodes every once

53:43

in a while people, because you got them

53:45

in your armpits actually. Maybe

53:48

the crab was checking and it was like, give

53:50

me a couple hours. I'll make sure it feels

53:52

okay. Thank you. It feels okay.

53:54

Thanks, Pinchy. Maybe that was his name,

53:57

Pinchy. too,

54:00

people maybe had an experience of a

54:02

crab latching onto them with a pincer for a while. And

54:04

so that could be where Hippocrates got

54:06

this, whatever the reason he sparked

54:09

a trend. And

54:11

the next physician here is a Greek

54:13

person, but in like the Greek province

54:15

of the Roman Empire, more

54:18

than 400 years later, a guy named Celsus.

54:21

He writes a medical encyclopedia where he

54:23

names tumors cancer, which

54:25

is the Latinization and eventually

54:28

anglicization of carcanos. I

54:30

feel like it's not fair to... Because

54:33

crabs are cute and they taste

54:35

good and they do cool things,

54:39

whereas cancer is just pretty

54:41

awful. I feel like we

54:44

could have chosen a more annoying animal

54:47

to name cancer after. Yeah,

54:50

there is like one more step

54:52

that seems to cinch it because

54:54

of course we could have moved

54:56

on from this weird Greek language

54:58

and mythology connection. But

55:00

from there after Celsus and

55:02

after Hippocrates, there's another Roman

55:04

doctor named Galen, who's

55:07

also famous in medical history. He

55:10

took an actual look at a tumor, like

55:12

a deceased person's breast tumor. They opened them

55:14

up and looked at it. And

55:16

he sees a network of veins leading out of

55:18

the mass and decides that the

55:20

way those kind of fan out looks like

55:22

the legs of a crab pattern. Interesting.

55:27

And so he says, based on that

55:29

and the many Greek and Roman doctors

55:31

before me referencing crabs, let's

55:33

stick to that. That's a good reason to call it

55:35

this thing. The other

55:37

thing Howard Markle points out is

55:39

that we in one way have

55:41

gone a different way linguistically because

55:44

the doctors specializing in cancers are

55:46

not called cancerologists or cancer

55:49

attrition. They're called oncologists, right?

55:52

Yeah, they're called oncologists, which is from a

55:54

different Greek root. It turns

55:56

out the Greek word oncose means

55:58

masses. Okay.

56:01

And that might be kind of even

56:03

a more accurate word. Like there are

56:05

many different diseases called cancer. It can be

56:07

more of a mass than necessarily a tumor,

56:09

especially if it's benign. And so we

56:12

did find a not crab way to

56:14

describe this, but we are kind

56:16

of sticking with the crab way in most cases. Yeah,

56:19

really hard to get rid of that

56:21

crab. So this character

56:23

stuck around in the zodiac and in

56:26

disease, we, from Greece to the rest

56:28

of the world have promoted an idea

56:30

that somehow crabs are involved with this

56:32

family of human diseases. All

56:35

because Hera was like, I'm going

56:37

to throw a crab named crab

56:39

at you Hercules. Really?

56:43

It was so underpowered as an enemy. It

56:45

didn't even really have an interesting name. Yeah,

56:48

I choose you crab just

56:51

against a demigod. I mean,

56:54

like, is she even trying at that point? It

56:57

is less interestingly named than the Pokemon's that

56:59

look like crabs. That's true. Right.

57:02

Hey,

57:05

welcome

57:07

to

57:09

the

57:11

main

57:13

episode

57:16

for this week. Welcome

57:18

to the outro with fun features for you,

57:20

such as help remembering this episode with a

57:22

run back through the big takeaways. Takeaway

57:29

number one, many arthropod species carcinized.

57:31

They separately evolved to match a

57:33

crab's shape and then many crab

57:36

species separately evolved to walk on

57:38

land. Takeaway number

57:40

two, many hermit crabs choose to

57:42

turn human trash into homes, especially

57:45

plastic trash. Takeaway

57:47

number three, the names for crabs and

57:49

medical cancers come from ancient Greece and

57:51

a myth equivalent of a video game

57:54

grunt. Plus so many stats

57:56

and numbers about the biggest and

57:58

smallest crabs, crabs and. every habitat

58:00

in the world, the magic of

58:02

horseshoe crab blood, and more. Those

58:09

are the takeaways. Also, I said that's

58:11

the main episode because there is more

58:13

secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you

58:16

right now if you support this show

58:18

at maximumfund.org. Members are the

58:20

reason this podcast exists, so members

58:22

get a bonus show every week

58:24

where we explore one obviously incredibly

58:27

fascinating story related to the main

58:29

episode. This week's bonus topic

58:31

is Amelia Earhart's and the evidence

58:33

for and against her getting eaten

58:35

by crabs. Visit sifpod.fund

58:37

for that bonus show, for a library of

58:39

more than 15 dozen other

58:42

secretly incredibly fascinating bonus shows, and

58:45

a catalog of all sorts of Max

58:47

Fund bonus shows. It's special audio. It

58:49

is just for members. Thank you to

58:51

everybody who backs this podcast operation. Additional

58:54

fun things, check out our research

58:56

sources on this episode's page at

58:58

maximumfund.org. Key sources this week

59:00

include the book Walking Sideways, the Remarkable

59:03

World of Crabs by Judith S. Weiss

59:05

of Rutgers University New Work, a lot

59:07

of new studies, in particular 2023 and

59:09

2024 University Work, and tons more digital

59:14

resources from National Geographic,

59:16

NPR, New Scientist Magazine,

59:18

NASA, and more. That

59:21

page also features resources such as native-land.ca.

59:23

I'm using those to acknowledge that I

59:25

recorded this in Lenapehoking, the traditional land

59:28

of the Muncie Lenape people and the

59:30

Wapinger people, as well as the Mohican

59:32

people, Skatagoke people, and others. Also Katie

59:34

taped this in the country of Italy,

59:36

and I want to acknowledge that in

59:38

my location, in many other locations in

59:40

the Americas and elsewhere, native

59:42

people are very much still here. That

59:45

feels worth doing on each episode, and

59:47

join the free Sif Discord where we're

59:49

sharing stories and resources about native people

59:51

and life. There is a link in

59:54

this episode's description to join the Discord.

59:56

We're also talking about this episode on the

59:59

Discord, and hey! Would you like a

1:00:01

tip on another episode? Because each week

1:00:03

I'm finding is something randomly incredibly fascinating

1:00:05

by running all the past episode numbers

1:00:07

through a random number generator. This

1:00:10

week's pick is episode 155. That's

1:00:12

about the topic of ice cream. Fun

1:00:14

fact there, the United States and Cuba

1:00:16

each tried to become the world leader

1:00:18

in ice cream making and ice cream

1:00:20

flavors to prove they had the best

1:00:23

way of life in the Cold War. So

1:00:25

I recommend that episode. I also recommend

1:00:28

my co-host Katie Golden's weekly podcast, Creature

1:00:30

Feature about animals and science and more.

1:00:32

If you like this episode at all,

1:00:34

you will obviously love Creature Feature. Our

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Souza for audio mastering on this episode.

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Special thanks to the Beacon Music Factory

1:00:48

for taping support. Extra, extra

1:00:50

special thanks go to our members and thank you

1:00:52

to all our listeners. I'm thrilled to say we

1:00:54

will be back. Next week

1:00:56

with more secretly incredibly

1:00:59

fascinating. So how

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by you.