0:11

Hello and welcome to the See You in the AM

0:13

podcast, where we explore the many facets

0:15

of mental health and wellness, share our personal

0:17

experiences, interview mental health experts,

0:20

and offer practical tips and resources to help

0:22

you prioritize your mental wellness. I'm

0:25

your co-host, Allie Nickle from Aspyn Market,

0:27

and I'm joined by my friend, business partner

0:29

and founder of Aspyn Market Wynter Johnson.

0:32

We know there are a lot of mental health resources out there

0:35

and it's overwhelming to find the right resources

0:37

that fit your needs, time and budget. So

0:39

we're here to help. In each episode we'll talk

0:41

with one of Aspyn Market's mental health experts,

0:43

and dig into a mental health topic that we know so

0:45

many of us struggle with. In

0:48

today's episode, we'll discuss connecting

0:50

with your inner nerd with Aspyn Coach

0:52

Kris Quintana. Kris is a

0:54

certified high performance coach and a

0:56

world champion martial artist and master

0:58

instructor. And her background includes

1:00

years of teaching about leadership, self-discipline,

1:03

and resilience through martial arts training.

1:06

Her work focuses on helping her clients

1:08

find energy, clarity, and consistency to

1:10

keep moving forward.

1:11

Hi, Allie. Thanks so much for having me. And

1:14

hi. With you too. I should be saying hi to you

1:16

both. Yes, absolutely. Uh,

1:18

I am super excited, uh, I,

1:20

um, being a nerd myself, I'm very excited

1:23

to see where this conversation goes. Uh,

1:25

so with that, I'll hand it over to Wynter to start

1:27

us off.

1:28

Yes. Hi Kris. We are so excited to have

1:30

you here and to be talking about inner nerd and

1:32

I was really excited to

1:35

to, to talk about this topic today because

1:37

until I was probably in my early, early

1:40

twenties, mid twenties, you know, being a nerd,

1:42

you kind of have that, that um,

1:45

feel those feelings from school come up, you know,

1:47

when kids called other kids nerd and you don't feel great

1:49

about it. And I interviewed with this amazing

1:51

company once and they had a coach that sat in

1:54

in all the interviews and he said, you have

1:56

some inner nerd in you, don't you? And I said,

1:58

I do. And he said, this is great. And

2:00

they ended up offering me the job. And it was the first

2:02

time I thought, okay, wait, inner nerd can

2:04

be really powerful. And so I'm excited

2:07

to talk to you today. Um, but before

2:09

we dig into all of that, I would really love to

2:11

know more about you, your coaching,

2:14

your background in martial arts, just, just

2:16

everything about you.

2:17

Oh my goodness. Now, first thing about

2:19

me, never give me that much leeway.

2:21

I'll talk for 45 minutes. Um,

2:26

wow. Okay, so where to start?

2:28

Uh, okay, so

2:30

the martial arts thing, we'll start there because

2:32

Allie mentioned, I think Allie mentioned the

2:35

world champion thing. Um, I

2:37

am who I have been a martial artist

2:41

since 1990. 90,

2:44

since 1990. Um, I

2:47

have, I tried three different

2:49

martial arts before I fell into the one that I'm in now,

2:51

and I've been doing that, it'll be 30 years

2:53

this November of the same

2:55

martial art. Um, it's a martial art called Kuk

2:57

Sool. I currently study the branch

2:59

of Kuk Sool called Mirae Kuk Sool,

3:02

which is honestly brand new. And

3:04

super exciting. Um, that's

3:07

a whole other story and we won't go there on this

3:09

at this point probably. Um, but I was

3:11

a world champion in 2001. In fact, it was October

3:14

of 2001. So part of my training overlapped

3:16

the Twin Towers, um,

3:18

falling down. And uh, it was

3:21

a really intense time, I

3:23

think communally

3:25

and culturally. And, um,

3:27

I was the kid growing up. I

3:29

always dreamed of being a competitor,

3:32

like an Olympic competitor, but not because

3:34

I ever wanted to win anything, but because I wanted to work

3:36

out. Like in the seventies, they used

3:38

to show us these videos

3:40

of like Nadia Comăneci and

3:43

all these people and all they did was

3:45

their thing. Like they didn't go to real school

3:47

and they got to do ballet and they got to choose gymnastics.

3:50

And that was their whole life. And I thought, whoa, that would be so

3:52

cool. So for me, going after that

3:54

grand championship started as a

3:56

way to prioritize my training and being

3:59

able to do it every single day, no matter what

4:01

was going on, and really get into the training. But

4:03

then the towers fell and it sort of became

4:05

like, um, I'm

4:08

not letting it stop me. Like I had this whole

4:10

moment of is this even worth doing? The world

4:12

is going going crazy and should

4:14

I be going to this competition? And I

4:16

thought, no, this is us saying like,

4:18

we're gonna still do the things that

4:20

we do. Um, and so

4:23

I went and went to the competition. So you

4:25

know, it was, had something to do with the time

4:27

as well as the activity of doing

4:29

it. And it just felt really important to

4:31

do. Um, and so,

4:33

you know, on the one hand, wow, that was so long ago.

4:35

Why am I still talking about it? But on the other

4:37

hand, it really was formative and there's a lot

4:40

of times where it's like, well this

4:42

is hard, but it's not harder than what I went

4:44

through in 2001. So I know that I can do this.

4:46

And, um, so. You

4:49

know, it's, it's a favorite coaching question. When was

4:51

a, think of a time when you've, you

4:53

know, been your best self. I'm like, okay, 2001

4:55

got that championship. So, um,

4:58

yeah, there was a lot of really great learning in

5:00

that and there's a lot of things I draw on when I'm

5:03

talking to people about it. It's been a really good

5:05

foundation. Um, I

5:07

stopped teaching

5:10

because of a concussion not from the martial art

5:12

that I got five years ago. And the environment

5:14

of being on the mat was just too chaotic for me.

5:17

So I moved into coaching because it's more one-on-one

5:19

and even when it's group, it's not as chaotic

5:21

as 14 four year olds running around

5:24

being told to be louder. Cuz that was my job is

5:26

be louder. Um, so

5:28

it's a much calmer environment, um,

5:31

to be a coach, but I still get

5:33

all of that same sense

5:35

of contribution and being able to help people.

5:39

I love that and saying,

5:42

you know, think of a time when you did something amazing or

5:44

think of a time in your life when you felt good and

5:47

remember that you can do this is

5:49

a really, really powerful message. Because

5:51

I think that there's times, and I think a lot of people

5:53

are going through those times right now as we transition

5:55

and we watch the world transition where we think, can I do

5:58

this? And knowing I have done this

6:00

and I can do this is really,

6:02

really impactful.

6:04

Yeah, and I think martial arts, I've been such a great

6:06

metaphor for that all my life, um, or

6:10

all of my adult life because, um,

6:13

right now I'm starting something newish. I haven't

6:15

been a coach for as long as I've been a martial artist,

6:17

so it feels very new. And that

6:19

is a very humbling experience. But I remember

6:22

being a white belt, and I remember watching

6:24

every one of my students step onto the mat for the

6:26

first time as a white belt, and the courage

6:28

that that takes and what it takes to

6:30

be a beginner at something. And then you

6:33

finally achieve and you get your yellow belt,

6:35

and now you have color in your belt and you've made it,

6:37

but you're in a brand new class and

6:39

you have to learn all new things and it feels

6:41

uncomfortable again. And so over and

6:43

over in a martial arts journey, you're, you're

6:46

achieving, you're proud of yourself.

6:48

You have short goals, like a big goal, black

6:50

belt broken down into small goals. All the things

6:52

we teach in coaching, right? It's manifested

6:55

on the mat and it's walked out in real

6:57

time in a martial arts studio, which is

6:59

why I loved doing that for so long.

7:02

But you know, it's just a reminder. Um,

7:04

A white belt. Again, I'm a color belt, so I have

7:06

some experience I can help other people, but

7:08

I still have a long way to go. And

7:10

that feeling of, I've done this over

7:13

and over and over again because

7:15

I'm in one of those phases right now of

7:17

can I really do this? My life is so

7:19

different today than it was two, five years

7:22

ago. Can I really do this? But yeah,

7:25

uh, we, I, I've done it before, so I must

7:27

be able to do it again.

7:30

I love that. You know, and I, my youngest son

7:32

is into TaeKwonDo and

7:34

af after every belt, you're right, he's like, can I do

7:36

this? You can do this. You just did this. You did this

7:39

5, 6, 7 times already. You've got

7:41

this. And so I love taking the bigger

7:43

goal and breaking it down, which is really

7:46

hard to do. Sometimes. It can feel big

7:48

until you break it down in those little steps.

7:51

You know what I wish too though, was that somehow

7:53

in real life we could wear

7:55

signs that tell people where

7:57

we're at. Like, nobody expects

8:00

a white belt to look like a black belt. So

8:02

when a white belt makes a bunch of mistakes

8:04

that they're going, oh, that's a dumb mistake. We don't

8:06

go, that's a dumb mistake. We go, that's the exact same

8:08

mistake everybody makes. At that point, you're a

8:10

beginner, right? And then we get, we

8:12

have all like couple years experience under our

8:14

belt. So now it's a very much darker color.

8:17

So people can look at us and go, oh, I can, I

8:19

can ask that person for help. But other

8:21

people look at us and say they might need my

8:23

help. And I kind of just wish we had color

8:25

codes for life like that. So we

8:27

knew who we could reach up to and who we needed to

8:29

reach down to. And that we gave

8:32

ourselves more permission to make mistakes.

8:34

Like I used to say, I didn't even

8:36

realize I said it. One of my adult students pointed

8:39

out to me that it was one of her favorite expressions.

8:41

So I used to say, you're making the right

8:43

mistake.

8:46

I love that saying,

8:48

and, and if you think about it, Anybody

8:51

with more experience than you knows exactly

8:54

what mistakes you're going to make on, you know,

8:56

if you have kids, what, not every

8:58

single mistake, but you have a sense of what are the kinds

9:00

of mistakes they're going to make at fourth grade,

9:02

at sixth grade, at 12th grade event, you

9:04

know, you've been there so you know what to expect

9:06

a little bit. So we look at it as

9:08

the end of the world, cuz we've never done it before,

9:12

but somebody looking back at us is like, well that's the

9:14

right mistake. That's how you're gonna learn. That's the lesson

9:16

you need to learn. That's perfect cuz I see you making

9:18

that mistake. It tells me you're following these things.

9:21

Allie, you look like you wanna say something.

9:23

Oh, I was just gonna jump in and say I,

9:25

I'm getting super excited about all this. Um, so

9:27

I have a three, almost four year old and

9:30

um, one of the things I've really been focused

9:33

on is I grew up being a people pleaser,

9:35

a perfectionist, and, um,

9:38

from some of the books I've been reading, one of them is Good Inside,

9:40

um, we can link to it in the show notes, but

9:43

it talks about how reward the

9:45

effort, not the result.

9:47

And I think this is exactly what you're getting at with mistakes

9:49

and everything is, you know, saying that's

9:52

okay, that's how you learn. You fall

9:54

down, you get back up again. But again,

9:57

recognizing that effort of, but you

9:59

did get back up again. Not that's

10:02

the expectation, but you, you figured out

10:04

how to do it. You figured out how to correct it. And

10:06

I think there's so much room

10:08

for that right now with everybody.

10:10

I'm using the analogy of my toddler,

10:13

but with, with grownups, with human

10:15

beings in general, recognizing

10:17

there's always mistakes be made. There's always lessons

10:20

to be learned, but that's where the,

10:22

the important part is. It's not okay,

10:24

then you finally figured it out. It's, you figured

10:27

out how to get there.

10:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think for me, the challenge

10:30

always was the teenagers because they look

10:32

like adults. And

10:35

so it was sometimes it's much easier to look

10:37

like, look at a toddler and remember

10:39

to be kind and gentler and

10:41

that they were gonna do all these things. And then you

10:43

get these teenagers who's like 95%

10:45

of the time are just fine.

10:48

And then they do like, what

10:51

are you thinking kind of things. And

10:53

you're like, right, that's a teen.

10:55

Like as the words you should know better are coming

10:58

out your mouth. The, the other side of your

11:00

brain is like, no, they shouldn't, that,

11:02

that's not like, right. And, and

11:04

to be able to give ourselves and everybody around

11:06

us that grace all the time. I mean,

11:08

yes, we wanna be age appropriate

11:11

in the conversations that we have with people.

11:13

So we're not talking down to someone, but we're not giving

11:15

them too much information. But at the same time,

11:18

wouldn't it be nice if we were all as kind to each

11:20

other as we are to the little ones like,

11:23

little one's having a temper tantrum, that's fine.

11:26

I mean, it can be annoying, but we know what

11:28

they're regulating and we have to help them learn to regulate.

11:30

Well, what about us when we're completely dysregulated,

11:33

why can't we honor that somehow?

11:36

Why can't we honor that for ourselves? I think there's

11:38

a lot there. Like yeah, our

11:40

journey would be great, but since

11:42

we can't do that, I think we can

11:45

personally take responsibility for sharing

11:47

where we are in our journey, you know? And I

11:49

think when you are in a safe space, you're in the right

11:51

space, you have the right people in your world, you

11:53

feel comfortable saying, I don't know

11:56

this, or I did this and it didn't

11:58

work, or I really need some help with this,

12:00

or I've been there, I can help you

12:02

with that. And so unfortunately,

12:04

I don't think that's something a lot of us get comfortable

12:06

with until we're a bit older and

12:09

in the right environment. You know, Allie and I

12:11

came from a really safe space at our last company

12:13

where there were times where things just went wrong.

12:16

They just did. And the questions were

12:18

around. Did you think through it? Did

12:20

you try your hardest? And if you, if those two things.

12:22

Yes. I thought through it. I tried my hardest.

12:25

Then it happened. Let's start over. Let's see

12:27

how we can learn from this and how are we gonna

12:29

do it differently next time? But I

12:31

don't think you always find yourself in those spaces

12:33

or have the confidence to

12:36

express what you need or

12:38

how you feel.

12:40

Yeah. And I think that's so important. Um,

12:43

I. One of my mentors, uh,

12:46

Dr. Robin Silverman, she does, um,

12:48

how to talk to kids about anything. And she's got a

12:50

book coming out on it. Um, she

12:53

used to say like, when

12:55

kids make mistakes, yay, you're

12:57

one step closer. Yay, you're

12:59

one fail. You know? Right? Like you're one fail

13:01

closer, like you celebrate the win.

13:04

Um, we did an in, I did

13:06

a improv class actually once with my leadership

13:08

team where we did that where the first rule

13:10

of improv was you have to celebrate the win.

13:12

So minute you, if you made a mistake, you

13:14

had to go yay me, I made a mistake. Like

13:18

it got to be the greatest thing. It was

13:20

so uncomfortable for the team at the beginning,

13:23

but by, you know, within 20 minutes

13:25

it was natural and it carried over

13:27

and it was such an awesome lesson

13:29

to learn of, you know,

13:31

not just the, I don't know, which is

13:33

open-mindedness and brilliant also,

13:36

but, um, to be able to celebrate

13:38

mistakes and learn to be okay with them.

13:42

As the mom of a teenager, I need to remember that

13:44

and figure out how to celebrate those, those

13:47

life lessons.

13:48

Well, I think at the teenager,

13:51

sometimes that's scarier to do cuz they're,

13:53

it feels like there's more at stake.

13:55

The older we get with our mistakes, the

13:57

more it feels like there's a lot at stake. So

14:00

give yourself a little bit of room for

14:02

that too. But yeah, definitely thinking

14:04

about it. I mean, if it's the right size mistake

14:07

and if it's the right mistake, uh, some mistakes

14:09

are not the right mistakes, but you

14:12

know, at some point a teenager's gonna have

14:14

their heart broken. That's the right mistake.

14:17

Yes. Life lessons. There's a lot of

14:19

life lessons in that age.

14:21

Yeah. Yeah.

14:23

Okay. But let's dig into inner nerd.

14:25

Ok. So when you say into inner nerd, I

14:27

think that's another thing that comes with age is really

14:29

knowing what your inner nerd

14:31

is. And I think that's another thing where when

14:34

you're surrounded by the right group, right places, right

14:36

people, your inner nerd

14:38

can really shine. But how do you recommend

14:41

we recognize and connect

14:43

with our inner nerd? And what does that really mean to do

14:45

that?

14:48

I love that question. Um,

14:53

well, you said so many things. I love what you

14:55

said about the right people being around

14:57

you, making that feel safer. Um,

14:59

for me, the inner nerd

15:01

idea. To get really,

15:03

really, really good at something, you

15:05

have to get into the weeds

15:08

with it. And most of us

15:10

have a thing that we will

15:12

turtle totally nerd out about.

15:15

And a lot of us have an experience

15:18

in middle school or high school where we're made

15:20

fun of for that thing that

15:22

we're so much more into than

15:24

everybody else. Like in a high school,

15:26

I would've just defined myself as a drama nerd.

15:28

I was a theater department. Like that

15:30

was my thing. I was also like a book nerd. I, I

15:33

had to get good grades cuz that was the perfectionist

15:35

in me. But I didn't identify that. I

15:37

identify drama nerd, like that was the place I

15:39

belonged as I was over

15:42

the years working with teenagers, I realized

15:44

that they kids, the teens today,

15:47

I guess the older Gen Z, younger millennials,

15:49

I don't know where the cutoff is anymore. Um,

15:52

they don't see it the way you, we see

15:54

it like as nerd is necessarily a bad

15:56

word, like a negative thing. Um,

15:58

some, sometimes we do. So for me,

16:00

the inner nerd, as opposed to your outer

16:02

nerd is the thing you hide away. The

16:05

inner nerd is the whatever

16:07

it is. Whether you think it's a nerdy thing or not,

16:09

it's the thing you hide away that

16:11

at some point in your life, even if you don't feel

16:13

that way today, maybe you feel that way today. Either

16:16

you wish you could be different or

16:18

you just wish you didn't have to be different. You

16:21

know, like, like this is who I am

16:23

and it hurts to be me out and in the world.

16:26

Or I'm afraid to be me out in the world

16:28

that maybe I haven't been hurt, but I saw someone

16:30

else get picked on for being

16:33

big and bold and you know, whatever,

16:35

and I need to be quieter. Maybe I've heard

16:37

too many times girls don't do that. Maybe

16:40

it was weird when. I

16:43

was little and my big sister was

16:45

playing dress up, and I wanted to, but I was a boy,

16:47

but I couldn't, you know,

16:50

whatever it was, there's

16:53

something inside of us that wants to get out

16:55

and it's saying, let me out, I can do

16:57

this. And every once in a while we let that piece

16:59

out and we're like, whoa, that was cool. But

17:01

there's this voice in our head. This is not safe.

17:04

To me, that's the inner nerd and connecting

17:06

with that is learning how to

17:09

embrace it and to understand

17:11

it and to find the safety that you

17:13

were talking about, to be able to let

17:15

it show. And sometimes we let it show in very

17:18

small ways because sometimes it's

17:20

not safe. Right.

17:22

I know. Um, I,

17:25

I have a, uh, um, someone

17:27

in my distantly in my life whose

17:30

trans kid didn't come

17:32

out but invited them in. Because

17:36

in the world that they live in, it's not

17:38

safe enough for that kid to come out yet.

17:41

So that's a step, I mean, at

17:43

least now there's someone supporting

17:45

and saying, you're valid. You're valuable.

17:48

I still love you. And, and building that

17:50

up. But like, that's kind of an ex more extreme

17:52

example, I guess. Uh, although it's not, it's probably

17:55

very common. But, um,

17:57

you know, there's also the,

17:59

the little voice that like, I want to,

18:02

I wanna start a podcast. Nobody wants to listen

18:04

to me. I don't have anything valuable

18:06

to say. I talk too much anyway. Right.

18:08

That inner nerd. And so when we can embrace

18:11

that and let it out, A

18:13

lot of times, and I got this from

18:15

this piece I got from Jeffrey Marsh's book,

18:18

um, How To Be You. I love them. Um,

18:20

but Jeffrey talks a lot about

18:22

how to and how to be you. The idea

18:25

of what you think is your weakness

18:27

is really your superpower. And that really

18:29

is part of how the heroes part came into

18:31

nerds and heroes is it's not just your inner

18:34

nerd, but it's letting that

18:36

out in a way that that quality of

18:38

you gets to shine as a strength

18:40

and you can learn to appreciate

18:42

yourself that way and allow yourself

18:45

to be more, you.

18:49

Your weakness is a superpower. And

18:51

I think the, the sooner we

18:54

identify that, the sooner we

18:56

get comfortable with that. The sooner

18:58

we can embrace and grow that. Is that an accurate

19:01

statement there?

19:02

Absolutely. The sooner, the better. Um,

19:05

I figured out I was a nerd. I

19:09

don't know. I started playing the personal development world

19:11

at nine, so, um, I

19:13

had a huge headstart on a lot of people,

19:16

and that aspect of me made me the weirdest kid

19:18

in school, um, because

19:21

nobody else was doing this and nobody else's parents were

19:23

doing it. Like my mom was meditating and my friends

19:25

were like, can I, is your mom, your mom's meditating

19:27

right now? Can I see what it looks like? It

19:30

looks like she's sleeping, but can I see.

19:33

Oh, okay. Cracked

19:35

the door open. Like we, I was just

19:37

weird because I was into, so

19:39

like yeah, the younger, the better. Um,

19:42

and I think, you know, a tangible example,

19:44

cuz if we're just saying your weakness is your superpower,

19:46

that's kind of hard to hone in on and connect

19:48

with. Like for me, the first thing that

19:51

came to mind when I was thinking about how do I make this

19:53

more tangible is a friend of mine who

19:55

says I'm terrible at organization, my

19:58

house is a complete mess and I'm trying to learn

20:00

systems to help teach my kids and

20:02

to help manage the house. And it's so frustrating

20:04

cuz I'm so bad at it. And okay, so he would

20:06

say, my weakness is organization.

20:08

But what that means is he can handle

20:11

chaos, right?

20:15

Life is not always organized. If you're

20:17

a disorganized person, you're comfortable

20:20

with chaos, that's

20:22

a superpower. Allie just

20:25

got it. Ooh, you just got

20:26

that, that just clicked. Yeah. Okay.

20:30

I, I don't, I don't have a follow up to that other

20:32

than Yep. That just clicked for me. I

20:35

don't feel so bad when my desk is a mess.

20:38

Everybody has a different way of doing things anyway,

20:40

but that's a whole other conversation. My desk

20:42

right now is horrifying, but I don't like that

20:45

it's messy. Um,

20:47

cuz I used to be organized, and this is

20:49

a brain injury thing.

20:51

Okay. And my husband's probably laughing and

20:54

my mother in her grave is probably laughing

20:56

because I probably was never as organized as

20:58

I think I was. But, um,

21:01

I would prefer that it was organized. But, um,

21:03

yeah, so that, I mean that's like one really

21:05

tangible example. Um, the other one I said

21:08

before was like the voice in your head

21:10

that says, well, they always told me I talk too much.

21:12

They always told me nobody wants to hear what I have to say, so

21:14

I shouldn't start that podcast. I shouldn't write

21:16

that blog. Um, I

21:19

mean, we grow up with messages in our head.

21:21

We all have 'em. Um, our

21:23

kids all have 'em. And no matter how

21:25

well we try as parents and teachers,

21:28

not to repeat it, we're not

21:30

perfect. So our kids hear some of 'em, but,

21:32

you know, whatever the message is that tells

21:34

us we need to be perfect, that we can't be who we are.

21:37

Like I'm sure if you think

21:39

about it, you know what your tape is like, we have

21:41

a tape and we just need to change the tape.

21:45

How do you change that tape? And, you know,

21:47

I have a 12 year old son who a couple weeks ago

21:50

said to me, well, I can't do that

21:52

because Mrs. So-and-So said I'm not good

21:54

at it. And Mrs. So-and-so was

21:56

his second grade teacher, and he has carried

21:58

that with him for years and years

22:00

thinking I can't do that and

22:02

doesn't even try. So how do you

22:06

break that loop, change that tape in kids

22:08

and adults and yourself?

22:11

Wow. Okay. Wow.

22:14

That is such a great example because

22:16

we don't realize what we carry

22:18

with us. Um, I

22:22

think changing the tape is

22:25

an act of courage and an act of consistency

22:29

and, all right,

22:31

I don't think you guys are as old as me,

22:33

but do, are you guys old enough to remember Philip

22:35

Smally from Saturday Night Live? I'm

22:37

good enough. I'm smart enough and gosh

22:40

darn it, people like me. Yes.

22:43

Okay. Affirmations work, I mean,

22:45

we make fun of 'em, but affirmations

22:47

work, you have to rewrite. So

22:49

we're talking about a tape and in case there's any

22:51

teenagers looking way

22:53

back before we had playlists, we have

22:56

these round disks we called CDs.

22:58

And even before that, they were these

23:00

things that were plastic and had

23:02

a piece of recording tape through them, and that's what

23:04

we're talking about. Okay, so you have to record

23:06

over it, right?

23:08

I mean, think about it. When I used

23:11

to, since I'm using the word tape, uh,

23:13

I used to stick the tape in the VCR and

23:15

it would like, I wanna watch cinderella

23:19

and that's Top Gun. I love Top Gun, but

23:21

I wanted Cinderella. I don't go, oh my God,

23:23

it's Top Gun. I can't handle it. I take the tape out

23:25

and I put Cinderella in. So

23:27

on some level it's that simple. But

23:30

simple doesn't mean easy and you just have

23:32

to replace the message over and

23:34

over again. If it were a coaching

23:36

conversation that I were having with a kid

23:38

who said, I can't do that cuz my second grade teacher

23:40

said I was never gonna be good at it, I

23:43

would say, you know, has there been

23:45

anything in the last 10 years that you've

23:47

discovered Mrs. So-and-So was wrong about? Is

23:51

it possible she was wrong about

23:53

this? Let's pretend or even not ask

23:55

that one in case he says no. Let's pretend for

23:57

a minute she made a mistake. If

24:00

she had never said that, what could you do

24:03

if you knew you couldn't fail? What

24:06

would you do? Why

24:08

don't we try that? Because maybe,

24:11

maybe it was true then and it isn't true now. You're

24:14

a different person now than you were then. But

24:16

it becomes an act of exploring because to

24:18

some degree, what we say

24:21

to another person doesn't always stick,

24:23

but what they say to themselves sticks

24:25

better. So if you can get your kid to

24:28

tell you, it's better to have his voice

24:30

replacing the tape. I mean, your voice replacing the tape

24:32

is beautiful. But if you can layer

24:34

on top of that, his voice, you did say it was your son,

24:36

right? Sorry. Um,

24:38

his voice on top of it. So he's hearing himself

24:41

say it, you know, affirmations

24:43

are corny. Good luck getting any 12 year old to do that.

24:45

But, um, you know, just in a conversation

24:48

and then look for the wins. Look for how many examples

24:50

can you find between second grade and now as

24:53

mom, where he already proved that

24:55

teacher wrong and he's already come close to

24:57

doing this thing he says he can't do.

25:01

Well, and you say affirmations are corny, but I love

25:03

them. One of the first things I did with the first coach

25:05

I worked with was create an affirmation that I still

25:07

use to this day. Um,

25:10

and I've had a couple with my kids that I use

25:12

and I say them all the time

25:15

and I hear them sometimes saying them

25:17

to each other or saying them out loud to themselves. And

25:19

I was like, okay, there's hope that some of these

25:21

are getting in there. So yeah, we, we

25:23

think we're corny people make fun of them.

25:25

I I They are powerful.

25:28

Yeah. Leave a note. And, and you know, that

25:30

might be a good way to ask him, like, if you

25:32

were gonna replace that tape, if you wanted to actively

25:35

change that story. That's another thing Dr. Robin

25:38

has, has taught me over the years. It's like,

25:40

that's a story that you're telling yourself. Let's write a

25:42

different one. If you were gonna write a different

25:44

story, what would you say? And then maybe he,

25:46

there's an affirmation in that, right?

25:48

That's part of the nerds and the heroes. We're gonna

25:50

be the hero of our own story. Or

25:53

maybe we're the hero of someone else's story and not

25:55

our own. But if we look at it from a comic

25:57

book point of view, can't we, we

25:59

get to change it. We're in charge. We can be

26:01

the writer, not the person

26:03

stuck inside of the box. Right? So

26:06

if we wanted to change that story, what would we change

26:08

it to? And then maybe there's an affirmation

26:11

that can help support that and be a reminder

26:13

of that along the way.

26:16

Well, and I think in creating that story, one of the comments

26:18

you made a few minutes ago was, what would you

26:20

do if you knew you couldn't fail? Yeah. The

26:23

story in the safe lane looks very different

26:25

than changing the story in a way

26:27

that you actually want the story to change.

26:29

Uh, I think a lot of us can make decisions

26:33

or move in directions that are fear-based.

26:35

We're too scared to go for direction A, so

26:37

we settle for B. And so it's really interesting

26:39

to ask yourself to break through that fear of what

26:42

do I actually really want? Instead

26:45

of what do I feel safe doing?

26:47

I think you have to ask both questions. I

26:49

think you have to start with, what do I really want?

26:52

If I knew I couldn't fail, what

26:54

would I do? If

26:56

I knew I couldn't fail? I would,

27:00

I don't know, um, I would

27:02

write a book. If I knew that it

27:05

was gonna be worth my time, I wasn't gonna

27:07

go broke. It was gonna sell. It was gonna

27:09

be useful to someone. I would write a book

27:11

that's my blue sky thing. That

27:13

thought terrifies me. So what's

27:15

the smallest step I

27:18

can take towards that, given

27:20

the fear that I'm feeling?

27:23

Well and there we go to breaking down goals into steps, which

27:25

I love.

27:26

Exactly. And that's why you have to

27:28

ask both questions because fear is a healthy

27:30

thing. Fear is not something to be avoided

27:32

or ignored. Fear

27:35

that's misplaced needs

27:37

to be adjusted.

27:40

But fear exists for a reason and

27:42

sometimes it needs to be listened to. And

27:45

so we don't wanna just bypass it.

27:47

I'm very, very leery of, of bypassing.

27:50

Um, but we can say,

27:52

what's the stretch? And then what's the first

27:54

step towards that? Sometimes we don't even know what's

27:56

beyond that step. Like

28:00

what I'm doing right now in my life is

28:02

step one towards a huge

28:04

vision. I have no idea what steps

28:06

two through that vision are. I just

28:08

know what step one is, and that's all as far

28:10

as I can see. And so that's the step I'm taking

28:13

and I'm kind of trusting

28:16

in the universe and God and whatever

28:18

we wanna call it, that I'm on the right,

28:20

heading in the right direction.

28:23

Well, and along those lines, one of the things

28:25

I've been trying to practice lately is giving

28:27

it a name, giving it a title. So

28:31

an example of facing that fear of we're

28:34

gonna start a podcast, which is exactly what we're doing right

28:36

now, instead of, you know, thinking of

28:38

it that way and all the different steps and

28:40

making it really big. It's, no, I'm a storyteller.

28:43

I am talking to people and getting a

28:45

message out there and helping

28:47

people with it. And that makes it more

28:50

approachable when you give it that name

28:53

of being a powerful storyteller.

28:55

Not I'm launching a podcast. Who's gonna listen

28:57

to it? What am I doing with this? How are we gonna do it? What

28:59

are the logistics behind it of No, I'm

29:01

a storyteller. And then just head

29:04

at your inner nerd. Yes. And that's your inner

29:06

nerd. I love that. Identifying who you

29:08

are instead of what you're gonna do. Yes.

29:11

Beautiful.

29:13

So how can you help other people in your

29:15

world embrace their inner nerd?

29:18

Um, celebrate the

29:20

things you like about them. Um,

29:24

help them see their strengths

29:27

when they're focused on their weaknesses and

29:32

vehemently deny

29:35

and argue against the criticism

29:38

that they're hearing that you disagree with.

29:41

Um, so for example, I

29:45

was in my

29:48

church small group and

29:50

someone was saying, we were talking about

29:52

fear and we were talking about courage,

29:54

and we were talking about, um,

29:57

not shrinking from what we're called to do.

30:00

And she was like, I just feel so lost.

30:03

I don't know what I do well, I'm just in this phase

30:05

phase where I'm so tired all the time.

30:07

I just don't think I'm doing anything. I'm not moving towards

30:10

my calling. And I was like, okay,

30:12

woman, stop. You've shown up this

30:14

way, that way. And I started naming very

30:16

specific things that she's been doing

30:18

in the middle of e whatever's going on in her life

30:20

right now. And I, you know, it's, it

30:23

just recognize what

30:26

people are doing well and re and,

30:28

and reaffirm it and support

30:30

it and encourage it as much as

30:32

we can. I think that's how

30:34

anyone can help someone

30:36

connect to their inner nerd is just like,

30:38

we can't tell someone what it is, but if

30:41

someone says, oh, I'm thinking about doing

30:44

X. Wow, that's so cool. What's

30:46

that about for you? Like be curious with them

30:48

and explore with them and just support

30:50

it. I mean, if we look at people and we see who they

30:53

are and we're willing to see

30:55

them, it helps them see

30:57

themselves.

30:59

I love that being able to see people for who they really

31:01

are and letting them be that, you know, I

31:03

think a lot of times we're told what we

31:05

should be and that kind of, you know,

31:07

forces our inner nerd back into hiding even more.

31:10

Um, until, you know, we are okay

31:12

saying, this is me and this

31:14

is how I'm gonna show up today.

31:16

Yeah. We're told what we should be

31:18

and also how to be that. I,

31:21

I got a lot of messaging in my childhood

31:24

about, um, the right way to

31:26

be a girl. And,

31:29

um, and it, you know,

31:31

I fought against it for a really long time and,

31:35

um, my stepmom pointed out to me one

31:37

day that, um, it's my

31:39

thing on Instagram that I don't wear

31:41

makeup ever. And I was like, no, that's

31:43

not actually intentional. That's sort of just life.

31:46

Um, but I sort of liked it too.

31:48

Um, I mean, I do sometimes, but

31:51

I don't care. I. Because that's

31:53

part of how I decided I was going

31:55

to be female in this

31:57

world. I mean, I was identified female at birth

31:59

and I still am, but this is how I'm doing it.

32:02

And I was a tomboy and I

32:04

was a whatever and I had my hair short

32:06

and I wa I go by Kris instead

32:08

of Kristen because of, you know, and

32:10

all of these things. And I wasn't

32:13

allowed to play sports cuz girls don't play sports.

32:15

And it was only the seventies and you

32:17

know, all of those things that I fought so

32:19

hard to get to. But

32:21

even today as a grownup woman,

32:24

I have to figure out what does that mean?

32:26

How do I wanna show up every day? Having

32:28

been given all of these messages from both

32:30

sides, all of these messages from the world,

32:33

like women can't do this. And all

32:35

of these messages from my mom

32:37

and my aunt and these powerful women, a generation

32:39

ahead who were trailblazing for me,

32:42

who had expectations of how I was gonna live

32:44

up to that. Like I

32:46

can only be me. And

32:49

eventually that's what happens. But I think

32:51

we do. We just get so many messages of

32:53

what should you be? How should you be that?

32:55

And to find people, we need people

32:58

around us who can support us. So if you

33:00

know to find your own inner nerd, get

33:02

around the people that support who you

33:04

are and your vision of you, and to help

33:06

bring it out in another person, just accept

33:09

who they are. And my way

33:11

of doing things is not yours, Wynter or

33:13

yours, Allie. And that's okay. I

33:16

wanna help you be the best you. I don't wanna turn you

33:18

into a mini me. I never

33:20

even wanted to turn my mini me into a me,

33:22

mini me. It just sort of was what other

33:24

people said. I

33:27

want people to be better than me. When

33:29

I was teaching, I never wanted anybody to turn out

33:31

like me. I wanted them to turn out better than me.

33:35

It's interesting that you talk about messaging

33:38

that way because I think

33:40

in some regards, I. I feel

33:42

like it's okay to be you. There's so many different

33:45

ways, you know, being a woman can look so different,

33:47

you know, now there's so many, it doesn't, it's

33:50

not this prescribed picture

33:53

the way it was maybe 15, 20,

33:55

25 years ago. On the flip

33:57

side, I think you hear more and more thanks

34:00

to social media and the access of

34:02

how you should be, how you should

34:04

wear your makeup, how you should keep your home, how

34:06

you should raise your kids. And there's so

34:08

many more people telling you how

34:11

it should be. And so it's this weird

34:13

middle ground of I have freedom to be me, but

34:15

also I should be exactly like this. And

34:17

it just gets exhausting.

34:19

It is so exhausting. And yet, and uh,

34:21

yesterday there was a commercial on TV for

34:23

men's hair color, and I had like the secret

34:26

agent dude dropping in like Mission Impossible.

34:29

And they're like, dude, you have too many grays. And he covered

34:31

'em up. And I'm like, I looked at my husband,

34:33

I said, do you find this as offensive as I do?

34:36

He was, he stopped at the television. He went, what

34:38

the heck are you talking about? I was

34:40

like, it's ageism. It's

34:42

not okay. It doesn't make it okay to

34:44

tell women they're not allowed to age just

34:46

because we tell men they're not allowed to age also.

34:49

There was a time when society revered

34:52

their elders, and now it's

34:54

bad enough women are being told we don't

34:56

matter over a certain age, but now they're telling men

34:59

the same thing. It's getting worse. That's not

35:01

getting better, that's not equality. That's,

35:03

that's making it worse. So yeah, it is

35:05

absolutely exhausting. It comes from

35:07

all sides. And then on top

35:09

of that, there's the constant, you

35:12

know, self-checking of, am

35:14

I showing up? Ha I

35:16

need to show up as authentically me and

35:18

not performative, but I also need to

35:20

make sure that I'm accessible,

35:23

that I'm not being, um,

35:25

racist or ageist or ableist

35:27

or anything-ist because

35:30

I'm, that's who I am. But how

35:32

do I do that authentically

35:35

without crossing over into, I'm

35:37

doing it for the sake of doing it and

35:40

still being as inclusive as I wanna

35:42

be? Which is very, because

35:44

there's, there's just so many layers and there's so

35:46

much more ac at you were

35:48

saying access to it. It, it's,

35:51

it's utterly exhausting. And I think at

35:53

some point you just have to say, you

35:55

know, I'm gonna do the best that I can.

35:58

I'm gonna be me the best that I can and

36:01

some people won't like me. And when I

36:03

make a mistake, I'll own it and apologize

36:06

and do my best to do better and

36:08

not try to be perfect. I mean, as

36:10

nerdy as we wanna be, as heroic

36:12

as we wanna be. No one's perfect. Now

36:15

look at all the damage the adventures have done all

36:17

over the world in all of their

36:20

films in trying to save the world like.

36:22

That's actually like a running theme in some

36:24

of the stories is like, we don't trust them anymore

36:27

cuz they've messed up New York. Well they were kinda

36:29

of saving the whole planet, but they still made a mistake.

36:32

Um, like everybody, nobody's perfect.

36:34

Not even our heroes.

36:37

Well, and I think when you can say, my goal isn't to be perfect,

36:40

you allow yourself some freedom there to just be

36:42

even more you.

36:44

Yeah. One of my students once said to me,

36:46

perfection is no longer the goal.

36:48

Excellence is.

36:51

I like that.

36:52

Yeah. That was a very smart teenager.

36:55

Uh, Allie and I this year have been talking a lot about progress

36:58

over perfection.

36:58

Yeah.

36:59

Yeah. So that can be hard

37:01

for us. And so progress is, is

37:03

our goal here.

37:05

I love that progress is so important

37:08

and timelines are

37:11

important for measuring, like realistic

37:14

timelines are really, really important

37:16

when tracking progress as

37:18

well.

37:20

And recognizing it. I think sometimes

37:22

we get so frustrated with the one thing we do miss and

37:24

Allie's really good at this, but she'll say, okay, we

37:26

didn't get that done, but look at all the other things

37:28

we did do. Like, it's okay.

37:31

Like you, we, we've got this.

37:33

You know? And yeah. Really

37:35

seeing the big picture helps as well.

37:37

Yeah. I remember when my husband first started working with a

37:39

coach, the very first thing that his coach

37:41

said was, um,

37:44

I want you to set five goals, and then I want

37:46

you to tell me how you're gonna celebrate when each of them gets done.

37:51

Like there wasn't even, it's like you set a goal,

37:53

you set the celebration.

37:55

And the first thing we'll forego is our celebration because

37:58

we're, we're tired, we're busy, whatever

38:00

it is, we'll think we'll celebrate later.

38:01

Mm-hmm.

38:01

And I think forcing yourself to celebrate is,

38:04

is a good goal as well.

38:05

Yeah.

38:06

So speaking of progress, perfection,

38:09

uh, you focus a lot on productivity

38:11

in your coaching as well. I do. Can you

38:13

talk to us about that and, you

38:15

know, tips that you have to be productive

38:18

without being overwhelmed and really just moving forward.

38:21

Okay. This is one of the things I love to nerd out about.

38:23

So, fasten your seat belts. Um,

38:28

like I just said, like you guys

38:30

really hit on a really big

38:32

thing in recognizing what

38:34

gets done. Our sense of

38:37

how productive we are is tied

38:39

to our sense of competence, because

38:43

if we're not feeling competent, we're not

38:45

gonna feel like we got anything done. So

38:47

those two things are really, really important to look

38:49

at. And so I think, you know,

38:52

there's this, again,

38:55

there's these two competing things going on in our

38:57

culture right now. We're outgrowing

38:59

hustle and grind. And

39:01

so what happens when you outgrow something is

39:03

the pendulum that was over here swings

39:06

way back the other way. Sometimes

39:08

the pendulum swings way back the other way

39:10

when we aren't outgrowing, but we're growing

39:12

in the right direction and other people are getting uncomfortable.

39:15

But in general, we

39:18

get this pendulum swing. So we

39:20

were too much hustle and grind. So now we know

39:22

we need to rest, so we rest too much,

39:25

and then we have to recover from that and we go back to

39:27

hustle and grind, right? So we swing

39:30

from burned out to not

39:32

getting anything done because we haven't

39:34

found that middle ground. So for me,

39:36

part of a large part of productivity

39:38

is what you guys said, which is progress and identifying.

39:41

So if I, instead of going like

39:44

this size swing, how do I get

39:46

it to swing closer to whatever my

39:48

ideal is? Um, and

39:50

so you just practice. I mean, nobody

39:52

wants to hear that. The key to productivity

39:55

is practice. And

39:57

it's being willing to scrap

39:59

it all and start again. So

40:01

I have my ideal work week. My ideal

40:04

work week includes getting to

40:06

my desk at 6:00 AM and

40:08

this is actually something that just happens. So this is really

40:10

good timing. I get to my desk at 6:00 AM every morning.

40:13

I spend the first hour of my day writing

40:15

because I don't do

40:17

content comfortably. And

40:20

that's the only hour it's gonna get done. If I don't do

40:22

it, it won't happen at all. Six to seven I

40:24

write. And then from seven until

40:26

nine, the morning's mine, and then I go to work

40:29

from nine until 12 or one. And

40:31

I'm supposed to, supposed to take an hour

40:33

for lunch and then go to work until five or six.

40:36

And you know, there's clients in there and there's marketing

40:38

stuff and there's whatever's going on that week, editing

40:41

the podcast, recording it, whatever. Um,

40:44

yesterday I got up to my desk

40:47

at six. Seven

40:49

to actually only eight. And I was at

40:51

my desk from eight to noon. Yeah, I got an extra hour

40:53

in there, felt really good. Got a lot of stuff done,

40:56

was heading along, stopped for lunch,

40:58

didn't get back to work until four. Took

41:01

a nap, did a second meditation, la

41:03

la la. Couldn't get my butt

41:05

up the stairs and back to my office from

41:08

four until, uh,

41:10

the appointment, I forgot I had at five. I

41:12

was killing it. And I had thought

41:14

like, I have two more hours to go. And I realized

41:17

if I do six to seven, eight

41:19

to 12, that's five hours, and then I

41:21

do four to six. That's a seven hour

41:24

solid of work. That's

41:26

a reasonably good day. So

41:28

what if I take the middle of my day

41:30

and allow myself to do that? Wouldn't that

41:33

solve, I don't know when to work out. I don't know when to

41:35

get dinner ready. I don't have enough. Like I

41:37

need to take a nap. All those things get

41:39

solved. And I thought, well, that's interesting. Let's

41:41

try a new schedule. Instead

41:44

of beating myself up and going, I didn't

41:46

do anything for four hours. I sat and

41:48

I went, why didn't I do anything for four hours?

41:51

What did I need? What else did

41:53

I get done today? What didn't get done that

41:55

I could do better? So a lot of

41:57

it I think, is learning your limits and what

41:59

works for you and really being willing to

42:01

experiment. But I think also

42:03

it's being reasonable. Um,

42:07

I used to give my coach, I used to have

42:09

daily check-ins with my coach. I

42:11

would email her when I got to my desk, whatever,

42:13

like, Hey, I'm here. Because I

42:15

wasn't used to working at home instead of in an office,

42:17

so I needed to check in, right? Um,

42:20

so hey, I'm at my desk. These are the things I'm

42:22

doing today. And, uh,

42:24

at the end of the day, I would say, this is what I got done

42:26

yesterday. And, you know, so I was like, here's what I finished

42:28

yesterday. Here's what I'm doing today. Here's what I need help

42:30

on. So at

42:34

some point I was lists like this,

42:36

you know, And eventually my list got

42:38

this long because we started talking about,

42:40

she goes, that's not a day's list. That's two weeks

42:42

worth of stuff. And I think that's

42:45

part of when people start to be productive. They're like,

42:47

I have to do everything. I have to get it done yesterday. Who

42:49

set that timeline? If

42:52

you have a, you're smiling cuz you're, you're your own

42:54

boss now. So who set the timeline? The crazy

42:56

boss. I have no one to blame

42:58

but me. My boss is insane. Um,

43:01

but crazy timelines. And suddenly

43:03

you're like, well, why does it have to happen like this?

43:05

Why does it have to be today? And when we can

43:08

breathe a little bit that, see, and this is how

43:10

we get a balance between hustle and rest.

43:13

Instead of, it has to get done this week. What if

43:15

it gets done in two weeks? What

43:18

if instead of committing in my case to a podcast

43:20

every single week, I'm releasing one

43:22

every two weeks. Because I'm new

43:24

at this, I don't know how to edit. Like it doesn't take long

43:27

to create a podcast, takes forever to edit

43:29

one figure out how to get it published and

43:31

everything. For me, not saying it will for you guys,

43:33

um, but what if I give myself

43:35

two weeks instead of one week and I'm not killing myself

43:38

to get the podcast done because that's not actually

43:40

my business and my money maker. I actually make

43:42

business over here coaching, but

43:44

giving yourself that space and that time

43:47

and being willing to slow down and trusting

43:50

that you'll still get results even

43:52

if it takes a little bit longer to get there.

43:56

It is interesting that you say who set that timeline

43:58

and I think you know, personally and professionally,

44:00

and we have a good friend who has two little ones

44:03

and she was really stressed out of her laundry one

44:05

day and she said she stopped and realized, no

44:07

one's making me do this laundry. It's okay for me to go

44:09

to bed and I can do this tomorrow.

44:11

There's no one making me. I don't

44:13

have to do this. Is it nice to have the laundry

44:15

done? Yes. But is it also nice to get sleep when you really

44:18

need it? Like choosing to

44:20

allow yourself some grace to let

44:22

that laundry sit there. Or in your case, take a nap yesterday

44:25

if you needed it. If you needed that meditation,

44:27

give yourself some grace.

44:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And

44:31

you know, and when I was talking about creativity, like

44:33

being creative in how we do things right? Part

44:36

of productivity is funny. What works for me, you

44:38

know, for your friend it might work to throw

44:40

the laundry in the washer, go to bed, and only

44:42

have to fold it in the morning, right? Depending

44:45

on what is going on. But

44:47

h most of us are like, can't leave the laundry in the wash

44:49

overnight. Why not? I

44:52

wouldn't leave it for two nights, but like,

44:54

why not? How often do we turn on

44:56

the laundry, forget about it, and go, oh yeah, there was laundry,

44:59

and then throw it in the dryer. It's not that much different

45:01

than leaving it overnight, but you

45:03

know, we have, we get so stuck in the way

45:05

we always saw it done, the way the world tells

45:07

us it should be. There's a lot

45:09

more possibilities for how we get

45:11

things done. Um, I think the videos

45:14

that I have upon, um, on

45:16

the app talk about real specific

45:18

things like the Eisenhower Square

45:21

and, um, prioritizing and

45:23

all of that, like I have mine over there. Um,

45:26

so those are some more tangible things that

45:28

people could, could listen to and

45:30

also in terms of productivity. Um,

45:33

but yeah, I mean, I think productivity

45:35

is learning. The things I talk to my

45:37

clients about most are look at your goals

45:40

on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, um,

45:43

and plan your day to your goals, and

45:47

blocking time off. And blocking time

45:49

is two things. It's like that

45:51

theory of block time where instead of how

45:53

many things can I check off my list, it's this

45:56

is how much time I have to work on it. So what can get done

45:58

in this period of time? But it's

46:00

also scheduling those blocks

46:03

for the things that matter to you. So if you're gonna

46:05

write a book and you note don't have any time

46:07

anywhere, it never gets done. Which

46:09

is why I was saying I get to my desk at 6:00 AM

46:12

cause I needed an extra hour in the day.

46:14

I'm not gonna work out at six. There's no people to talk

46:16

to at six. I'm kind of groggy and it's,

46:18

I'm not really human so what could I do? I

46:20

could do the content that I don't

46:22

like to do first thing when I have good

46:25

strong willpower to do it.

46:28

And I like that too cuz it's kind of the swallow the frog

46:30

mentality of, you know, if I have

46:32

that over my head the whole day, I, I,

46:35

I go to great lengths to avoid it. Like, it

46:37

is amazing what I will do to avoid projects I

46:39

don't wanna do when I know if I just

46:41

block that time and get it done, the rest

46:43

of my day is so much better.

46:45

Can, and let me ask you about the end of the day

46:47

when you have avoided it all day and it's

46:49

been hanging over your head all day, how do you

46:51

feel about how productive you've been?

46:54

Well, I don't feel great. Even if I did a hundred

46:56

other things, I don't.

46:57

Exactly.

46:58

And then often what happens is I don't wanna do

47:00

it and so I let it go into the next day

47:02

and I might have this cycle for 3, 4,

47:04

5 days with this same thing I'm avoiding

47:07

over my head and instead of just taking

47:09

the hour to get it done, it

47:11

can ruin my week.

47:13

Yeah. And so, um,

47:15

I think I just wrote, my last blog post

47:17

was about this, about finding, um, escape

47:20

velocity. Um, I was talking to a

47:22

friend of mine about marketing

47:24

and she was saying how, um, marketing

47:28

isn't about convincing somebody that

47:30

they wanna buy something they don't

47:32

wanna buy. Marketing is about convincing

47:34

somebody who wants your services to take the

47:36

action and get off off their button and change the channel,

47:39

right? Like it's inertia.

47:41

And what you were des describing is a form

47:43

of inertia. And I think that's

47:46

one of the things that gets in our way all the time,

47:48

is it's just easy. I'm

47:50

already doing something in this direction and it's

47:52

hard to change gears and come back. And that's

47:54

part of why I eat the frog first works because

47:56

you don't have to overcome

47:58

momentum in a different direction. You

48:00

only have to get started. But if

48:02

you're taking a break, if you're eating lunch, if you're watching

48:05

television, if you're doing a task

48:07

for your bus for something else that's more fun

48:09

than the thing you need to do, you're not gonna

48:11

wanna do it. Like I

48:13

used to have parents come to me and go, I don't know what to do. My

48:15

kid argues about coming to this class all the time

48:18

when we get here. He has a great time, but getting

48:20

him is such a, here is such a fight. I can't

48:22

get him out the door. The first thing I always ask is,

48:24

what are they doing before you come to

48:26

class? Oh, they're outside running around and playing. I'm

48:28

like, okay. Easiest way to get them to come to class. Don't

48:30

let them play aft af between school and

48:32

class and

48:34

they won't do I, I, I can't do that. I'm like, okay,

48:37

well then you're gonna keep fighting this battle. But

48:39

like, if they had to come home, eat a snack,

48:42

sit quietly, and then do homework, wouldn't they wanna

48:44

come to class? Cuz now they get to play. And also

48:46

they'd be done with their homework earlier and they'd get

48:48

to play later. Like, you're having trouble

48:50

getting your kid, your third grader

48:52

to stop playing, come do their homework. What

48:54

a surprise. What if play

48:57

became the reward for home? I'm not gonna

48:59

stop playing and do homework either. I

49:02

wanna go play, but if I do my homework first and

49:04

then I go play work before play, right?

49:08

So some of that, a lot of it is inertia

49:10

and, and gaining momentum to get over

49:13

that inertia.

49:14

Well, and you're right, once you get that first task done, then you

49:16

feel so motivated throughout the rest of it. You're like, I've got

49:19

this. The rest of this, we're on

49:21

it.

49:21

I've got this. I did the worst thing, I did

49:23

the hardest thing. Everything else from here is easy.

49:26

If I could do that, I could do this. And, and

49:28

you don't have to look back 20 years to the World Championship

49:30

title. You only have to look back to seven o'clock this

49:32

morning or whatever time you, you did it. Right.

49:35

Now, for some people, the magic hour is later

49:38

in the evening. Like this is a Craig Valentine

49:40

thing. Like he talks about finding your

49:42

sweet spot and knowing what your magic hour is, where you're

49:44

going to be most productive. And then

49:47

that's when you do that most important thing.

49:49

So for some people it doesn't work. Some

49:52

people have been kicking themselves going, I'm trying

49:54

to eat the frog first. Everybody says, do the most

49:56

important thing first, but I can't ever get

49:58

anything done in the morning, so what am I? Don't

50:00

do it in the morning. Find what works best

50:02

for you. When are you most productive? And

50:04

that goes back to, you know, doing it

50:06

your way and not the way everybody else tells you to do

50:09

it. For some of us, that's gonna be first thing in the morning

50:12

and, and I've started realizing yesterday

50:14

for 20 years, I ran a martial arts studio.

50:17

I either went to my day job or got

50:19

up early in the morning and I worked from

50:21

6, 6 30 to two, and

50:23

then I taught from three until

50:26

nine. So is it any wonder that

50:28

now I don't wanna work from

50:30

two o'clock to four o'clock? Duh, it's

50:33

been 20 years. That's my habit. Is it

50:35

good? Maybe, maybe not. But that's my habit.

50:38

So I can force myself to change or

50:40

I can embrace it. I go,

50:42

that's the way I work. So what am I gonna do from two to four

50:45

that's gonna feel really good and make me wanna work again?

50:48

And how am I gonna make up that time? That's

50:50

interesting. Your body and your mind, you're used

50:52

to that schedule. That makes complete sense that

50:54

that's what you're wanting to do now, naturally.

50:57

Yeah. I mean it was pre pandemic and

51:00

some of us have a hard time remembering BC

51:02

before Covid, but um, we,

51:04

it, it existed and it's who we were.

51:07

Um, my life doesn't look anything

51:09

like that anymore. Some of which is by design

51:11

and some is not. But at

51:13

some point you're like, oh hey, this

51:16

is kind of a muscle memory. Like two

51:18

o'clock is my break. So,

51:20

cause I would stop and we would transition

51:22

from working at home to working at the school.

51:25

Um, or I would sit in traffic and

51:27

commute from work to the school, whatever period

51:29

of my life I was in. But it was like a good 20

51:32

years of, um, well 15

51:34

cuz I worked full-time for a while, but it was a

51:36

long time of not

51:38

having to work in those hours. So it's. I

51:41

can fight it or I can work with it. And I think

51:43

that's one of the most important productivity things

51:45

too, right? The neurodivergent people

51:47

are trying to put themselves in these, these

51:49

round holes that were not drawn

51:51

for them. And um,

51:54

it's one of the biggest challenges as an adult

51:56

with ADHD, is how do I make

51:58

my life work when my life doesn't

52:00

work the way all of the experts

52:03

on productivity say it should.

52:07

Well, and knowing what works for you

52:10

is huge and being okay

52:12

with it, working for you is another thing.

52:14

You know, Allie and I talk a lot about how our

52:16

life looks very different now than before Covid,

52:19

and I don't know that I could ever do or

52:21

want to do that again, but

52:23

somehow I also feel guilty for not still doing

52:26

that. It's a really uncomfortable place

52:28

to be.

52:29

Because we still live in a capitalist society

52:31

that, as you said earlier in this conversation,

52:34

values people based on how much money they

52:36

contribute to society. And

52:38

so there's that piece hanging over you of, it

52:40

doesn't look like the

52:42

corporate world that we

52:44

were all raised into. Um,

52:47

but there is another side of this, and that's the side

52:49

of, it's not, you know, saying find

52:51

what works for you is not permission to not change.

52:54

Right. The, the person I was talking about that

52:56

was saying I said, doesn't do order

52:58

well, but that means that their strength is chaos.

53:02

They want to do order better for themselves

53:04

and for their kids. So that's worth working

53:07

on. That's not like you say, oh,

53:09

I'm a disorganized person. I'm never gonna be organized.

53:12

Right? We can change. We are all

53:14

capable of doing the work to

53:16

teach ourselves to do something. But when

53:18

you're trying something over and over

53:20

and it's not working, maybe it's at

53:22

some point it becomes worth taking

53:24

a different approach. And sometimes that, and all

53:26

of that involves allowing yourself

53:28

to be, to find what works

53:31

for you. So, you know, maybe

53:34

this person's version of organization

53:36

will be different looking, but it will still be better

53:38

organized. And it will be a system

53:40

that, hey, that works for me and my kids.

53:42

And you know, when the kids are grown and outta school,

53:45

it may not work the same way anymore. And that's

53:47

something they'll have to figure out on their own as

53:50

they go. But you know, it's worth, it's

53:52

not like I don't have to change. Right.

53:54

I'm not saying we get to sit back

53:56

on our. Or problems

53:58

and just, oh, I am who I am. I don't have to change.

54:00

Meh, some of us have things we need

54:02

to work on and, and that's important to be

54:05

willing to, to at least attempt,

54:07

but it's, it's that, it's that pendulum

54:09

and that balancing act of how do you find

54:12

that middle ground?

54:14

Such a tricky thing to find in so many different ways.

54:16

I know.

54:18

Um, oh, I have so many different thoughts I

54:20

could go with on this. I

54:22

know we need to wrap up here pretty quick. Um,

54:24

but one of the things just to

54:26

go along with this conversation, um,

54:28

I saw, I think it was a reel on Instagram

54:30

the other day. I follow a lot of mom Instagram, uh,

54:33

accounts, having a three year old,

54:35

and one of them said something

54:37

that stuck with me of my self worth is

54:39

not based on if

54:42

my toddler had a tantrum

54:44

today. And I think. That,

54:47

but also my self-worth is not tied

54:49

to if I was productive for eight hours

54:51

at my computer today. Um,

54:54

and I keep going back to that and I think,

54:56

um, the US especially

54:59

is really bad at that. Um,

55:01

I can't speak to other cultures as much obviously,

55:04

but um, I think there's so much to

55:06

this that's tied to self-worth too. And

55:09

productivity is not tied to self-worth. Um,

55:12

our company is not tied to our self-worth

55:14

or shouldn't be. It needs to be, are we

55:16

fulfilled, are we happy? And then

55:19

because of that, we're more fulfilled,

55:21

we are more productive, we can move forward

55:23

and help more people. So that's just kind of what's

55:25

been swimming around in my head this whole time while we've

55:27

been talking.

55:29

I think that's really beautiful and I think it kind

55:31

of ties everything all together too, because

55:34

you're you to, if you say to someone

55:36

who has no sense of self worth, that

55:39

your self worth is not your business, your

55:41

child, whatever, that's terrifying. Yes.

55:45

So to someone who has

55:47

been given messages throughout their childhood,

55:49

that there's something wrong with that inner

55:51

nerd part of them and

55:54

hasn't been able to start saying, this

55:56

is who I am, right? I'm a

55:58

storyteller. Like when you said

56:00

that you disengaged, I'm

56:02

a storyteller. The podcast will be successful

56:04

or it won't. The podcast will be what it's gonna

56:07

be, but I'm still a storyteller, and who I

56:09

am isn't gonna be lessened. I

56:11

don't have to shrink based on those results.

56:13

And when you realize that about your child,

56:15

that your self worth is not tied to your child, what freedom

56:18

does that give your child in terms

56:20

of being who they are? And you start breaking a

56:22

cycle. You start breaking a

56:24

cycle and start allowing your child to develop

56:26

their sense of self-worth independently

56:29

of you and independently of their

56:31

results. And that

56:33

starts causing healing. Right.

56:35

So as we heal it in ourselves, we're healing it for

56:38

the next generation. And, and

56:40

that's really powerful too. I think what

56:42

you, you hit on that of we

56:44

need to know who we are. We need to know how to value

56:46

ourselves, um, in

56:48

order to like move out and start

56:50

shifting these paradigms

56:52

that we've been saddled with.

56:56

Only a little thing to, you know, break

56:59

the entire cycle of human behavior from

57:01

the last several generations.

57:02

A paradigms is nothing more than 20 cents. It's not

57:05

that big a deal.

57:06

Yes, exactly. Well,

57:10

thanks for tuning into the See You in the AM

57:12

podcast. We're your host, Allie Nickle

57:14

and Wynter Johnson. And a very special

57:16

thanks to Kris for taking the time to chat with us

57:18

today.

57:19

Thank you guys for having me. That was a lot of fun.

57:21

Uh, our goal at Aspyn Market is to make

57:23

mental health, self-guided therapy and coaching

57:25

resources available to everyone, and

57:28

we just skimmed the surface today. If

57:30

anything we discussed resonated with you and

57:32

you're interested in learning more to help your mental health,

57:34

please check out our app, Aspyn Coaching,

57:36

where you can get unlimited access to hundreds

57:38

of hours of self-guided therapy and coaching

57:41

from our team of Aspyn Coaches. Just

57:43

head over to AspynMarket.com. That's Aspyn

57:45

with a y to start your seven day free

57:47

trial now. Get full access to all of

57:49

our features for seven days, including

57:52

featured daily videos, guided journeys,

57:54

journal prompts, downloadable resources

57:56

and exercises. The path to a happier,

57:58

healthier you starts here. Until

58:00

our next episode, we hope you have a wonderful day

58:02

and we'll see you in the AM.