0:06

This is Seeds for Success, a

0:08

show where we have a good yarn about Ag life

0:11

with producers who are having a go.

0:13

On the show, you will hear from farmers in New South Wales

0:16

who are out there battling the elements, making

0:19

tough calls and getting the job done.

0:22

You'll get a laugh out of some of their stories,

0:24

and also pick up some know- how along the way.

0:27

I'm your host, Neroli Brennan. Today,

0:33

we're catching up with Nathan

0:36

and Kieran Simpson. Together,

0:38

Nathan and Kieran run a cropping and

0:40

grazing enterprise within their family

0:42

business at Gollan, 50- Ks

0:44

east of Dubbo. In this episode,

0:47

the brothers share with us that they both contribute

0:50

through defined roles. With Kieran

0:52

managing the sheep enterprise, with

0:54

Nathan looking after the cropping side

0:56

of the business. Historically,

0:58

these enterprises occupied about

1:00

a 50/50 of land area.

1:03

However, since the end of the last drought,

1:06

they have implemented changes that

1:08

have led to an increased focus on

1:10

cropping. You'll hear Kieran

1:12

share some of his experiences with

1:14

sheep feedlotting, including

1:16

a highly successful joining in confinement

1:19

lots. While Nathan talks to

1:21

us about his cropping rotation and

1:23

the complexities that perennial

1:25

pastures have played, including his

1:27

experiences with variable

1:29

rate nutrition and soil

1:32

amelioration. Local Land

1:34

Services Mixed Farming Advisor, Rohan

1:36

Leach, sat down with the Simpson Brothers

1:39

for this chat.

1:44

Good day, listeners. Today I'm with Kieran

1:46

and Nathan Simpson. We're at Gollan about 50- Ks east

1:48

of Dubbo. Fellas,

1:51

welcome to the Seeds for Success Podcast.

1:54

Thank you.

1:54

Thanks for having us, Roh.

1:55

Guys, talk about your family farm here at Binginbar.

1:59

Yeah, so family farm, it's Binginbar here

2:01

that Kieran owns now. It's been in the

2:03

family since 1868,

2:05

so it's 155 years this year.

2:08

So that's something we're pretty proud,

2:10

of and trying to make sure that we continue

2:12

that legacy. Part

2:14

of what Kieran and I are trying to achieve is creating

2:17

and allowing a business that will

2:19

have room for our children to come into the business,

2:22

if and when they choose to do so.

2:24

You've got a fair tribe of young ones, so

2:26

this is definitely a long- term thing you're planning

2:28

here. Kieran?

2:30

Yeah, for sure. Definitely. We

2:32

wanted to create opportunities for each

2:34

and every single one of our children to

2:36

come back into agricultural

2:38

space, whichever way they choose

2:41

fit. So we need to farm today

2:43

sustainably and successfully to

2:45

make sure that that happens in another 10 years time.

2:48

Kieran, can you just keep going with just a bit

2:50

of a rundown of your enterprises here

2:52

and what you do at Binginbar?

2:54

I'm in charge of the livestock enterprise

2:56

and Nathan's in charge of the cropping

2:58

enterprise, and sort of heads up

3:00

the whole general business. We're

3:03

30/ 70, 30% livestock,

3:05

70% cropping at the moment. Traditionally

3:08

we have been 50/50. The drought knocked

3:11

a lot of the pastures around and then there hasn't

3:13

been the money in the livestock for us since. So

3:16

we will get back to a sort of a 50/50

3:19

sustainable stocking rate and

3:22

we were traditionally just always

3:24

lamb traders, so we would

3:26

buy off repetitive clients every

3:28

year. We'll try to aim to. We're at

3:30

more than 50% of our livestock would've been

3:32

bought off. People would've been buying off for sort of 10 years,

3:35

fattening those lambs, supplying into

3:37

the meat works in Tamworth.

3:40

But yeah, we've only in

3:42

the last 12 months gone back to

3:44

our own ewe base and breeding

3:46

our own.

3:47

It's been a pretty volatile market

3:49

for trading, hasn't it? The past probably, you

3:52

could say 5 or 6 years.

3:53

It has, yeah. Yeah, there's some opportunities

3:56

there, but you just got to see

3:58

them. We missed

4:00

them all unfortunately. But

4:03

it ha been pretty tough

4:06

for traders the last few years

4:08

I think.

4:08

So there's probably been a bit more of a focus on

4:11

cropping then?

4:12

Yeah, it definitely has been, Roh. As

4:14

Kieran said, coming out of the drought, the drought

4:16

broke in February or whatever in 2020.

4:19

A lot of our perennial pastures are buggered, so took

4:21

all the perennial pastures out that were not in a sustainable

4:24

sort of population density anymore. And

4:26

yeah, we're still at that, so this

4:28

year there's a fair chunk we're sowing, there'll

4:30

be 375 hectares of perennial pasture

4:33

we're putting in this year. I think we've got another

4:35

160 to go in next year, and

4:37

in that 2020 we planted 700 hectares

4:39

of pasture. By the end of this year

4:41

I reckon we'll be probably at a 60%, like 60 to 40

4:44

land use cropping to pasture.

4:47

What sort of pastures are you planting?

4:49

It depends on soil type a bit. On our heavier

4:51

red country, which is the majority of the place really,

4:53

we've got a (inaudible) clover phalaris mix

4:56

that we put in. We do that in a

4:58

skip row setup, so we put our clover and

5:00

phalaris down one row and then the

3:53

(inaudible) in

5:03

the next. So there's a bit of mucking around with air, so to

5:05

set that up, but we found that works quite well.

5:08

As little tiny seedlings, they have

5:10

no vigor, they don't compete against

5:12

each other for space and sunlight and all the rest of it. So

5:15

we've found that works quite well. Then

5:17

on our light shitty country, we've

5:19

got a fair chunk of that too. We're sowing

5:21

clovers now basically, and

5:23

then we'll go back in September/ October

5:26

and so it's some digit. Some premier digit. Subtropical.

5:28

Have you sewn much digit before in the past?

5:30

Not straight. Not in

5:32

this situation like what we're going to do this

5:34

year. No, it's always been in a blend with temperate

5:37

species.

5:38

How has it gone with the temperates?

5:40

Yeah, not great. So you'd either have

5:42

one or the other basically, and it depends

5:44

on soil type a lot. The digit loves acidic

5:46

soil basically. So wherever that

5:49

soil was, you had quite a good digit

5:51

stand and then the phalaris would take off

5:53

in the better country.

5:54

That's interesting. So when were you sowing that

5:56

mix? That shotgun mix, just because

5:59

one's a summer grower and one's a temperate grower

6:01

obviously.

6:01

Yeah, that's right. That was generally all

6:03

sown in the temperate window,

6:05

so you're talking April/ May, and

6:07

then your digit obviously just sat there until spring.

6:10

Going on from soil types there. What

6:13

soil types do you have across the farm?

6:15

Ranging from basically

6:17

gravel to quite

6:19

heavy red clay country and everywhere

6:22

in between. So we've got some sort of sandy

6:24

clay loam almost. It's a mixture of the

6:27

whole lot, but majority of the place

6:29

would be, I'd say a clay loam. Yeah, red

6:31

clay loam.

6:32

We've nearly got every single type of soil type, though.

6:34

There is, yeah. Yep. So our biggest

6:36

challenge in the way of our cropping enterprise

6:39

is we don't have a deep bucket, so

6:41

we can't store moisture. We go from being

6:43

bloody dry to getting bogged

6:46

pretty quick, and therefore we're reliant

6:48

on spring rainfall, which is not reliable. So

6:50

that's one of our biggest challenges in our cropping enterprise.

6:53

I think the opportunity then presents itself

6:56

in those situations where you've got shallow soils and you

6:58

can't store that much moisture

7:00

over summer. Maybe tried

7:03

summer cropping or cover cropping to

7:05

make improvements there?

7:06

We haven't done any cover cropping

7:09

stuff. We've put different species together,

7:11

like a multi- species type setup

7:13

looking at either hay production or just

7:15

grazing to see what sort of benefits there are over

7:17

and above a straight grazing wheat or whatever. We've

7:20

done a fair bit of summer cropping opportunistically,

7:23

basically if we've got a full profile at the end of harvest

7:26

with a forecast for rain, so if you're

7:29

going into a La Nina summer we'd

7:31

do that. Our last one was the 2021

7:34

summer and we grew, it was about 550

7:37

hectares I reckon of Mung beans. Which

7:40

it was actually a really handy crop, but it got completely

7:42

decimated by mice, that mouse

7:44

plague that was right in the heart of that and

7:46

annihilated the crop, unfortunately.

7:47

That's a real opportunity miss

7:49

there. I do remember talking to you about

7:51

that and it was, as you said, looking really

7:53

good. Probably looked to yield a couple of ton of hectare.

7:56

It was, yeah. The better patches

7:58

where we did succeed in keeping the

8:00

mice out of it, did do 2- ton of hectare, which is

8:03

a fantastic result for our part of the world. But

8:05

yeah, unfortunately the mice beat us. We tried to keep them out, too. We

8:09

baited the whole lot twice,

8:12

the first time and then we did a perimeter and then

8:14

we baited the whole lot again. I can't remember

8:16

what I did the fourth time. I think I only did selected

8:18

paddocks where there was less damage, if that makes

8:20

sense. That was a bit of a kick in the guts

8:23

and we missed a really good opportunity there. Conditions

8:25

were perfect, just the mice come through and wiped her

8:27

out there.

8:28

So getting back to the livestock side of things, Kieran,

8:30

you're running some news now?

8:32

Yeah, so we've got only

8:35

a thousand Merinos and a thousand

8:37

composites. We're actually joining those to

8:39

Aussie Whites. We're going to go down

8:41

the Aussie White line. We're just a bit hesitant

8:43

to buy too many at ridiculous prices.

8:46

That all seems to be straightening itself out

8:48

now, which might create some more opportunities

8:50

come next joining. But yeah, looking

8:53

to get somewhere in the mark of

8:56

five and a half to 6, 000 ewes.

8:59

You're going to breed from those ones you've got and

9:01

just strip the wool off of them. Is that your plan?

9:03

No. So I'm just using the Aussie White as

9:05

a terminal at the moment. Yeah, I'll buy in

9:07

more ewes in sort of December. Stripping

9:10

the wool off of them is going to

9:13

take too long and you have too many bad genetic

9:15

traits in there that you don't want in that type of animal.

9:18

It's probably just better off paying sort of 40 or 50%

9:20

above market for a better type of animal.

9:23

So you've both got really defined roles.

9:26

Kieran, you look after the livestock and Nathan,

9:29

you look after the cropping. Is that conscious

9:31

decision or you've both sort of just ended up in

9:33

the positions that you like?

9:35

A bit of both, I'd say. Parents

9:39

are still involved in the business too, (inaudible)

9:42

title I guess, but they were quite good early

9:44

on in the planning. So the succession

9:46

story started, or the

9:48

conversation rather, started quite young.

9:52

I was only 18 or 19 somewhere in that ballpark.

9:54

That's where we had a business

9:57

coach from that point, like a corporate style

9:59

business plan and layout, you know what I mean? And that's

10:02

where the clearly identified

10:04

roles and responsibilities came into it.

10:07

Naturally I've always liked burning diesel

10:10

and Kieran's probably liked sheep a lot more than me mucking

10:12

around, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's sort a bit of both

10:14

I'd say.

10:15

Yeah. So how does the decision making work

10:17

in that sort of structure?

10:19

Up until pretty recently it's

10:21

just been by consensus. We have a

10:24

meeting once a month. We have a toolbox

10:26

meeting every week and then a meeting once a month where

10:28

we talk strategy basically, and what's

10:30

coming up and all the rest of it. If there's any

10:33

big decisions, well we have a matrix, so

10:36

you can make a decision in your enterprise up to

10:38

a certain value, but once it exceeds

10:40

I think it's 5 grand or something, you need another

10:42

person on board or whatever. And then if it's

10:44

whatever the next one is, you need a consensus

10:47

basically.

10:48

If it's something out of the status quo: if

10:50

he wants to buy fertilizer,

10:52

it's something totally different that we

10:55

normally wouldn't have done, then that's

10:57

when we've got to work on that matrix.

11:00

You sort of touched briefly on succession there

11:02

and we were having pretty interesting conversation

11:05

before about it, before I decided to pull out

11:07

the microphones. How has your succession

11:09

and planning for the future worked?

11:12

It's something we probably worked on in 2018,

11:14

was it?

11:14

To really knuckle down when

11:17

mum and dad wanted to sort of step out a

11:19

bit more and we needed to sort

11:21

out. We have another brother in between Nathan

11:23

and I, we needed to sort

11:25

him out and set him up for his life

11:28

opportunities so that

11:30

it wasn't something that came back on Nathan and I

11:33

later in our life when we're trying to set up for our children.

11:36

That one was really well done by another

11:38

business coach we had at the time, and

11:40

we all just sat in a room and discussed what

11:42

we wanted and what we saw

11:44

out of the business and came to an

11:46

agreement quite easily and comfortably. It's

11:49

still the main role that we're working on today,

11:51

is to tick those boxes on that

11:53

agreement we came up with in 2018.

11:54

So would you say that your succession's sorted

11:59

and you're finished with that?

12:00

Not 100%, but when it comes

12:02

to our middle

12:04

brother in between Nathan and I, I think that is definitely

12:06

sorted. Parents aren't

12:08

fully sorted, but they're a long way down

12:11

the track to being fully sorted. They're

12:14

reluctant to sell country

12:17

and we're not in a financial position to buy

12:19

country, so it's not something

12:21

that can be sorted right now anyway, but

12:24

it's pretty clear what the track is.

12:26

I think everyone's pretty comfortable with

12:28

where the track's heading. Signed document,

12:30

so it takes away a lot

12:32

of the arguments.

12:33

The key I think, and what mom and

12:36

dad did really well when we were quite young,

12:38

was to start that conversation

12:40

and sort of setting expectations

12:43

then. So there was just

12:45

to eliminate the green, greedy-

12:47

eyed monster basically coming into the equation,

12:49

which was bloody good. That's how I think we were

12:51

able to reach a consensus within

12:54

a few bloody hours, really. There

12:56

was no real stumbling blocks there, but it

12:58

is definitely a hundred percent like an evolving

13:01

process. I don't think succession is ever

13:03

done. It's something that is always

13:05

ongoing and developing and all the rest of it.

13:07

That's really good. I think it's

13:10

a shame that succession throws a few spanners in

13:12

and can drive some farming families

13:15

apart, but probably that first step is just talking

13:17

about it and start working on it as

13:19

soon as you can.

13:20

It is a shame, there's so many good businesses

13:22

go belly- up because they get that part of it wrong.

13:24

I think it's about setting expectations early,

13:26

like you're having the conversation with your kids when they're quite

13:28

young.

13:30

Kieran, you run the livestock side of things. Can

13:32

you explain to me your sheep feedlot system?

13:35

The sheep feedlot got put in to

13:38

secure ourselves originally in 2016,

13:41

with just a few pens so that

13:43

when we got into tight situations we had an opportunity

13:46

to finish stock. Then

13:48

that changed pretty rapidly and quickly

13:51

with going into the years of 17, 18 and 19.

13:55

The drier years where we then

13:57

went through with the DA and

13:59

made it quite a productive

14:02

tool for us. It's good, but

14:04

you've got to know your numbers with feedlotting, things

14:06

change really quickly. Going

14:08

forward it's just something that we'll probably use

14:10

opportunistically, not always keep full

14:13

over those periods where you can sort

14:15

of gauge where the market should end up, and

14:18

you've got opportunities over a dry summer

14:20

or something to buy cheaper stock.

14:23

So you sort of mothballed it during that really

14:25

volatile period? From 20

14:27

to start of the year basically. Did

14:30

you step back in at the start of this year?

14:32

We did only with stock that we

14:34

already had. We stopped

14:36

feedlotting in March of 2020, and

14:38

then I put stock back in

14:40

there of March this year. We finished

14:42

a bit over 10, 000 through there this year. Would've

14:45

liked to have finished more, but the markets sort of

14:47

collapsed pretty quickly so I had to make tough

14:49

decisions here a week ago.

14:51

How have you made the decisions, basically

14:53

when to sell or when to buy?

14:55

It's all just off a spreadsheet I've got

14:58

where you put in the values of your

15:00

grain, and you put in the value of the livestock,

15:02

and then you put in your estimated

15:05

value of the meat. Just

15:07

work off that margin, basically whether

15:09

we can make money out of the animals or not.

15:12

With the high prices of grain and livestock

15:14

falling off a bit of a cliff the last 6 months,

15:16

it's a bit of a no- brainer, isn't it?

15:18

Yeah, that's right.

15:19

Do you sort of envisage it helping

15:21

with your breeding operation?

15:22

For sure. What I am working towards

15:25

and going to put into place as of February

15:27

next year is a three

15:29

and two role. This year we

15:31

joined in the feedlot. We joined 2, 000 ewes

15:34

in the feedlot and it was very successful.

15:36

Some of them were in pretty poor condition

15:39

and it was very successful

15:42

to start with and then after

15:45

the success of that, I think that

15:47

that's something we will use every

15:49

joining. We'll join in there so we'll give our

15:52

country a chance to recover, and

15:54

using our type of feeding system, you can use

15:56

pretty cheap proteins and fiber

15:59

so it's not a massive cost. It's not like

16:01

you're feeding them 2 kilos of grain a

16:03

day. It's

16:05

definitely something that I've got budgeted. 40%

16:07

of our lambs that we breed ourselves will be finished

16:10

in the feedlot and every single joining will be

16:12

joined in the feedlot.

16:13

So what sort of conception rates did

16:15

you get out of it?

16:16

I've got some old Merinos there that they

16:19

scanned in 154%,

16:22

and then of what did scan

16:24

in was 165%.

16:25

Lamb down at 165%?

16:27

No they didn't lamb down, so when

16:29

you took the dry portion out of it was 165%

16:33

of using lamb. They're lambing next

16:35

week, so I'll see how we go

16:37

there. Another mob that I did

16:39

lamb down only in the

16:41

last month, they scanned

16:43

in at 165% and they

16:46

lambed down at 145%. So

16:48

it was pretty impressive I think, for

16:51

stock that were actually bought in, scanned

16:54

in lamb with all singles. There's nearly

16:57

one of those things that every animal

17:00

has the genetics, well not every

17:02

animal, but just locking

17:04

him up and stopping him from walking and giving

17:06

him the opportunity of constant

17:09

food of the exact same

17:11

type. So I've got a nice steady room and pH

17:13

is good.

17:14

It's a bit of a paradise for a ram, isn't it? Mouthful

17:17

of feed in one hand and 200 ewes

17:19

in front of him.

17:20

It is. It is quite funny with

17:22

a couple of rams in there, you don't see them fighting, they're

17:24

always just working.

17:27

I've just got a good visual on that. And

17:30

we'll probably leave that there. I reckon the greatest

17:32

success that you had there, Kieran, was you

17:34

joined in the feedlot there but it was at 1. 4%. The

17:38

ratio rams to ewes, and you

17:40

achieve that result. It's bloody phenomenal.

17:42

Just goes to show them not walking around as

17:44

much and access to clean,

17:46

fresh water all the time. You don't need to

17:48

put rams in at 4% to get good results.

17:52

I guess by using less rams, you can

17:54

afford to pay more for them and use the

17:56

best genetics available.

17:57

Absolutely, yeah. I totally, totally

18:00

agree with that. Yeah.

18:01

You also using electronic tags?

18:04

We are in the ewes. We were in the lambs,

18:06

but I haven't been using any of the data from

18:08

the lambs. Traditionally every

18:11

lamb that went in the feedlot had an EID tag

18:13

and we were sorting them and drafting

18:15

them on their performance and taking

18:17

out any shy feeders that basically

18:19

just weren't putting on weight with the

18:21

labor crunch that every industry's had. But

18:24

it's affected us as well. Haven't had

18:26

the time to do that. So to do that you're looking

18:28

at running them over on auto draft

18:30

twice, and a lot of

18:32

the time putting the EID tag

18:35

in the lamb because a lot of the lambs we buy

18:37

don't have EID tags. So it was

18:39

quite labor expensive. This time

18:41

I used a dye in the feed and

18:43

that proved to be pretty awesome

18:46

I think. We

18:48

used to draft them out on 14 days on

18:51

weight gain. This time, I just drafted

18:53

them on 4 days into what

18:55

has actually eaten the food and they just had a

18:57

blue muzzle, and those

18:59

animals didn't slip. So

19:01

even at 14 days if an animal's not eating,

19:03

you have a massive loss in body condition.

19:05

These animals went straight back, actually got an opportunity and

19:08

got into grazing crops and they peaked and they

19:11

were sold similar times as animals that went in

19:13

the feedlot because they didn't have that massive

19:15

slip. There were some instances where you

19:17

miss them where you don't get their IDs, but it's

19:20

something that I'll probably use going forward to take out that

19:22

massive labor problem.

19:23

Yeah, that's a huge result, isn't it? Just

19:26

being able to identify those early

19:28

ones and get them out of the way and focus

19:30

on the ones that are actually putting weight on.

19:32

Yeah, it was really good. It was no extra

19:34

work to put it in the feed. Basically

19:37

just threw it in the total mix ration and

19:39

had to put a suit on,

19:41

because it was quite a solid dye that

19:44

reacted with the moisture in your hands and

19:46

skin.

19:46

Didn't want to be looking like a smurf you reckon?

19:49

No, even though I had gloves and a suit on, it still

19:51

got through. Then 3,

19:54

000 lambs basically, we drafted

19:56

them. We took 10% out,

19:58

which was easy, they didn't have blue heads.

20:01

We did that in a bit under 4 hours, so

20:04

it was quite easy and simple.

20:06

And how long does dye take to wear off?

20:08

It would've been gone within 2 days. It wasn't

20:10

very solid. You

20:13

just noticed around the mouth that they were blue.

20:15

Nathan, maybe we'll focus a bit more now on the

20:17

cropping. Now, can you take me through your cropping

20:19

rotation?

20:21

Our cropping rotation generally consists of wheat,

20:23

canola and barley, and obviously a perennial pasture.

20:25

We're looking at, generally speaking, a 7- year

20:27

rotation. Starting and ending with canola

20:30

and then going into a 7

20:32

to 10- year perennial pasture phase

20:34

type of thing. So wheat, canola, barley. We've

20:39

grown some Linseed in the past and some Safflowers,

20:42

things like that to take

20:44

the pressure off the canola country a little bit. But yeah,

20:46

it's been pretty hard to pass

20:49

up sowing canola the last few years. That's been a best

20:51

grossed margin by a hell of a long way, so generally

20:53

speaking that's it mate.

20:55

It's been really worthwhile, hasn't it? It's really

20:57

forged a bit of a following

20:59

in probably areas that it hasn't been traditionally

21:01

used, hasn't it? Canola. So yeah,

21:03

probably a lot of those other transient crops

21:06

like Safflower or something, you've probably had it. All

21:08

Linseed have found it a bit tough to get into

21:10

the rotation.

21:15

We went up the Gold Coast a couple

21:17

of weeks ago and there's a lot of canola through there

21:19

that you'd never generally see.

21:21

I think also the fact that there's

21:23

genuine dual purpose varieties

21:25

now, and people are getting really

21:27

good grazing from it as well. So

21:30

can you talk me through your setup on how you start

21:32

your rotation?

21:33

That's something that we're planning sort of

21:36

12, 18 months in advance sort of thing. Generally

21:38

speaking, we do have a little bit of flexibility.

21:41

We can chop and change at the last minute if need

21:43

be, type thing. But generally speaking the

21:45

plan's set 12 or 18 months in advance,

21:47

just sit down with the AGRO and go

21:50

over the pros and cons of doing X, Y and Z. As

21:52

I said, it's generally a pretty fixed rotation

21:54

anyway so a lot of the work's done already, just a matter

21:57

of recording it in an Excel

21:59

spreadsheet. But in the way of the actual operation

22:01

since 2021,

22:03

so the last two

22:06

years, we've been full variable rate for seed and for

22:09

fertilizers, and even our liquid system

22:11

the last two years. So that's all

22:13

on soil type. So we've mapped our paddocks

22:15

to soil type, which is basically looking at combination

22:18

of EC like electric conductivity,

22:20

topography and elevation. So

22:22

a combination of those 3 to come up with

22:24

fixed zones in the paddock. So each

22:27

paddock has 3 zones, generally

22:29

speaking it's the highest yield potential

22:31

gets obviously the higher inputs and the

22:33

highest seed rate and all the rest of it. And the lowest

22:36

yield potential stuffs obviously backed off from that

22:38

by about 10%

22:40

per step roughly.

22:41

I guess the other route to go down with variable

22:43

rate is to go full soil testing and

22:45

grid mapping. How come you've gone with

22:48

this different version?

22:49

That's still a big part of it. You still go out and validate

22:52

through soil testing and zoning and that sort of stuff.

22:55

In each zone, in each paddock we're doing

22:57

5 soil tests. So there's a total

22:59

of 15 soil tests per paddock that

23:01

we've gone and done. That formulates the baseline

23:04

of nutrition decisions basically,

23:06

or even Lyme and all the rest of it too going forward

23:09

obviously. S it's a bit of a combination

23:11

of both, I guess.

23:11

Yeah, so that's great. So you're not just using

23:14

spatial information, but your ground truthing as well.

23:16

Yeah, a hundred percent. You definitely need to validate

23:18

what that data's telling you.

23:20

I believe you've also used some of that VR

23:22

on your pasture country as well, is that

23:24

right?

23:25

Yeah, we have. We've used some spatial

23:27

data from data farming up in Toowoomba to

23:30

look at... It was country that was

23:32

sown with perennial pasture in 2020, and I

23:34

wanted to look at 2016, 2020, it might've even been

23:39

2021. Three seasons

23:41

there anyway with big springs, so we wanted

23:43

to look at our high biomass areas compared

23:45

to our low biomass areas. I

23:48

did actually spread on that, so we

23:50

cut it into 3 zones, over 700 hectares

23:52

of pasture. We had to spread single super on and

23:55

we did spread on that composite

23:57

map and then went back and tested afterward.

24:00

So all of that country that year got cut

24:02

silage. It was a nutrient replacement

24:05

strategy more than anything else, because obviously we're harvesting

24:07

it off with the silage, or for the production. We

24:09

did go back and test and it is quite amazing how even

24:13

the phosphorus levels are now in

24:15

those zones.

24:17

Are you finding cost savings at the moment with

24:19

your VR?

24:19

We're not trying to

24:21

save money, it's more about getting a bigger return

24:23

on your investment.

24:25

Great answer, love that.

24:26

Well it depends on your area I suppose. A bit further west there's a

24:29

bit more semi- arable or reliable

24:31

I guess. Yeah, it's probably a valid way

24:34

to go about it but, certainly in our case

24:36

we're just putting the input where we should,

24:38

in theory, get a greater return.

24:40

You using any other technology, cool

24:43

tech in your cropping system?

24:44

Not really mate. Software

24:47

wise there's some pretty cool stuff. Up

24:50

until last year really, I

24:52

had no real way of validating different

24:55

on- farm trials that we were doing. Like With different

24:57

species and cultivars and fertilizer rates

24:59

and all the rest of that sort of stuff. Our AGRO

25:01

now is using a software platform, it's

25:03

tied up there with SSTs like Summit there,

25:05

somehow. But I think it might be like an add- on to it where

25:07

you're looking at a variable

25:10

rate, basically cross margin map. All

25:12

of our equipment's John Deere stuff, so it all

25:15

goes through the mod John Deere cloud after each task

25:17

and it's pulling that information out with- and that

25:20

obviously has our fertilizer rates and chemical rates

25:22

and all that sort of stuff- so that all gets processed.

25:25

Has a cost attributed to that input

25:27

obviously, including diesel labor, the whole

25:29

lot. Then we're looking at yield maps obviously.

25:31

To what those areas produced and

25:34

not necessarily looking at where the best

25:36

area is or whatever. We're looking at the gross margin, so

25:38

where the greatest return was on that and that's

25:40

been a terrific tool to validate

25:42

what decisions we're making in season. Sometimes

25:46

you're making calls where you're not

25:50

100% sure it's the right decision or not, like you think

25:52

it is because of X, Y, Z conditions.

25:54

That tool to use at the end of the season,

25:57

before you're planning for the next season is a great way

25:59

to validate those decisions and whether it was wrong

26:02

or right. There was definitely stuff we stuffed

26:04

up on last year. There was probably, well 150, 200 hectares that we sowed that we

26:08

shouldn't have. We just got too bloody wet

26:10

all year and then you couldn't get on and spray,

26:13

and it was all a dead loss. We would've been

26:15

much better off keeping the seeds in the silo and

26:17

the fertilizer. But that's one of those

26:19

sorts of decisions that went against us, obviously.

26:22

But there was other decisions there that we made

26:24

in crop that were bloody terrific and they had a great

26:26

result. So it's really important I think,

26:28

particularly when you're doing VR, because there are so

26:30

many complexities that come into

26:33

a given result. It's not necessarily just

26:35

your agronomic practices and your inputs and that sort

26:38

of stuff, there's a part of history and part of-- there's

26:40

this and that and all the rest of them. So it is definitely

26:43

important to go and validate those

26:45

decisions and to basically keep you on track

26:47

and making sure you're doing the right thing.

26:48

It's just another tool and toolkit, isn't it?

26:51

A hundred percent, yeah.

26:51

You're still using probably a fair bit of gut

26:53

decisions as well, so it's important

26:55

to probably have both of them going forward.

26:58

Kieran, any other flash bits of tech

27:00

that you're using in the livestock side of your business?

27:03

No, not really at the moment. Will

27:05

do going forward just to process

27:07

our twinners. At the moment

27:10

we're not doing too much, but within a couple of years we'll

27:12

start to focus on self replacing

27:14

flock and we'll start to use a bit of pedigree

27:16

matchmaker there to make sure

27:18

that we're choosing the maidens

27:21

from the highest profitable

27:23

ewe, the ewe that's performing consistently

27:26

and rearing that lamb every

27:28

time.

27:29

Fellas, I've had an absolute whale of a time

27:31

today. But just before I go,

27:33

I like to ask of my guests: what do

27:35

you think is the big issue in Aussie

27:37

AG at the moment?

27:39

Labor shortage for sure. We are so

27:41

ridiculously short on skilled labor in

27:43

particular, but even just

27:45

laborers. We're at the situation there now where

27:48

our truck driver finished up with us last month

27:51

and we can't

27:53

find another truckie, so we're we're going to sell

27:55

that truck. It's to that point where it's impacting

27:58

our business pretty hard.

27:58

Kieran?

28:00

My biggest one I think, is

28:02

we're all price takers and

28:05

we accept a price at the time. We can market

28:07

our commodity to a certain point,

28:10

but then we have our cashflow issues

28:12

that come into it. I think the biggest

28:15

low hanging fruit as an industry

28:17

going forward is to sort

28:20

of get away from that if we can, and

28:22

start to have a bit more consistency

28:24

around what our prices are going to be going forward.

28:27

Cracking answers, fellas. Thanks so much for

28:29

coming onto the podcast today.

28:30

No worries, bro. Thanks for the invite mate. It's been good.

28:33

Thanks very much mate.

28:36

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