0:11

On fitness reality radio. You're listening

0:13

to the Seeing Eye dog show with me, your

0:15

host, Harriet Moffat. Today

0:17

I'm going to be joined by Damian McMorrow,

0:20

national Access Technology manager

0:22

at Vision Australia. Damo is a

0:24

singer dog handler himself, and we're going

0:26

to be talking about how to use access

0:29

technology to get the best

0:31

out of your singer dog. We're going

0:33

to be talking a little bit about some of the other

0:35

products and navigational tools

0:37

that can be used whilst working with a dog

0:40

guide to keep you safe, oriented

0:42

and independent. And now

0:44

let's jump into some technology talk

0:46

with demo. Hi,

0:54

Jamie, thanks for joining me on the show today.

0:56

Thank you for having me.

0:57

So we're going to start off, um, and

0:59

talk a little bit about some assistive technology

1:02

today. Um, but I wanted to start

1:04

off, um, if you can introduce yourself and your role

1:06

at Vision Australia.

1:07

Yeah, sure. So, uh, Damon McMorrow,

1:10

I'm the national access technology

1:12

manager at Vision Australia. So I

1:14

head up, I guess, all aspects of

1:16

our Access Technology service. So that includes

1:19

our, um, providing support

1:21

to our 80 specialists out in the field,

1:23

of which there's a over 40 of

1:25

them in, uh, various offices around

1:27

the country. Uh, we also have

1:29

a, an access technology

1:32

helpdesk, which people can call if they want, just

1:34

general help and advice over the phone

1:36

or via email. And then

1:39

we also have some, uh,

1:41

access technology lead consultants who,

1:44

uh, do sort of, uh,

1:47

at consulting work for corporate

1:49

and government clients and that type

1:51

of thing. So it's a fairly big,

1:54

um, service, I guess. And,

1:57

uh, I've been I've been part of it. I started out as

1:59

an IT specialist in the, um, Brisbane

2:01

office in corporate. Um, so I've been with

2:03

Vision Australia for around about ten years,

2:06

and, uh, I'm also,

2:08

um, totally blind from birth. And

2:10

I have, um, um,

2:13

currently working with my third seeing

2:15

eye dog, whose name is Ebony. Uh, she's

2:17

a nine year old, uh, yellow

2:19

lab. So, uh,

2:21

yeah, been sort of, I guess, around

2:24

the organisation for, uh, quite

2:26

a while. And being a seeing eye dog user

2:28

since, uh, around about 2004.

2:31

And so not only are you aware

2:33

of this kind of professionally, but I'm assuming that

2:35

means also that you've been using a lot of this assistive

2:38

access technology for a long time, too.

2:40

Yes. Yeah. It's something

2:42

that I guess, you know, I

2:44

first, uh, started messing about

2:47

with it when I was about seven, so,

2:49

you know, 40 odd years ago. And I've

2:51

always had a real interest

2:53

in it generally and what it can do

2:55

for us in terms of, you know,

2:57

independence, um, employment

3:00

study, um, and

3:02

of course, uh, navigation and mobility

3:04

and all of those sorts of things. So it's something that I'm

3:07

fairly passionate about, which is sort of while

3:09

working in the industry that I do.

3:12

I can imagine that, uh, 40 years ago,

3:14

the capacity and the ability,

3:17

um, you know, just the limitations

3:19

of this assistive technology would have been quite different

3:21

to.

3:22

Oh, very much so. You know, we didn't really have

3:24

refresher braille devices. We didn't have

3:26

GPS devices, uh,

3:28

a computer with a very basic

3:31

screen reader with horrible robotic speech

3:33

was about as good as it got, um,

3:35

at that time and.

3:36

Probably would have cost a lot more.

3:39

Uh, relatively speaking, yes.

3:41

Um, but I mean, over that time, we've

3:43

seen some massive changes, you know,

3:45

and we've, we've got, in

3:47

lots of ways, better access to information

3:50

than we've ever had before. And that that

3:52

brings with it some additional challenges.

3:54

Um, in, in as much as, you know,

3:57

in the environment we start, we're starting to see

3:59

things like touch screen operated lifts and things,

4:01

which can be a little bit of a challenge. But

4:03

overall, the, the, the

4:05

access that we have and the independence that we

4:07

have as a result of technology is

4:09

very much improved over where it was even

4:12

10 or 15 years ago.

4:14

So what is the kind of definition of access

4:16

technology? What does that mean and how

4:18

do access technology specialists help?

4:21

So really there's

4:23

sort of been a little bit of a change probably

4:26

in the last 10 to 15 years. So previously,

4:29

uh, we used to use the term assistive technology

4:31

or adaptive technology because generally

4:34

it was specialized equipment

4:36

and software and that sort of thing. Um,

4:39

so nothing really was accessible

4:41

out of the box. Um,

4:43

what we've seen, though, in in more

4:46

recent years is that, you know,

4:48

things like Apple, um, phones

4:50

have a screen reader built into them. Windows

4:52

computers have a sort of a basic screen

4:54

reader built into them, Android phones.

4:57

Um, so there's a whole mix now

4:59

of sort of mainstream devices

5:01

that have some accessibility built in, as

5:03

well as those sort of specialized

5:06

or purpose built devices,

5:08

you know, so things like talking GPS,

5:11

you know, magnifiers, all of those kinds of

5:13

things. Um, so that's why we

5:15

sort of use the term access technology now, because

5:17

it's a mixture of taking advantage

5:19

of the inbuilt accessibility that

5:21

exists in a lot of devices, as well as

5:23

the, uh, sort of purpose built,

5:26

um, devices and software that that

5:28

are on the market as well. So what

5:30

our Access Technology Specialists do

5:32

is they, uh, work with you to

5:34

sort of work out, you know, what is the right

5:37

or what is the best fit for your particular

5:39

situation, because everybody's different. Everybody

5:41

has different needs. Everybody has different

5:44

life goals and things that they want

5:46

to do, things that are important to them.

5:48

Everyone's vision impairments

5:51

sort of affects them differently. You know, you can have

5:53

two people with the same vision condition who have

5:55

very different needs and very different wants

5:58

when it comes to technology. So what

6:00

we try to do is to help sort of navigate the

6:02

maze of all of the different options,

6:04

first of all, to work out what options are actually

6:06

going to be suitable for your specific

6:08

situation, but then also

6:11

trying to navigate the the funding

6:13

landscape as well. So depending on where people

6:15

are at in life, what they have access to,

6:17

whether it's, um, you know, NDIS

6:20

funding, whether it's uh, um,

6:23

you know, uh, KSP or Commonwealth

6:25

Home Support program, home care package,

6:27

uh, job access, you know, for the sort of workplace

6:30

modifications side of things if you need,

6:32

you know, equipment for work. So there's a number

6:34

of different ways that equipment

6:36

can be funded. So what we try to do is to find

6:39

the right options and sort of show you

6:41

what all the options are. We're not we don't tell

6:43

you what you can have or what the the right option

6:45

is. It's a matter of showing you the different pros

6:47

and cons and working with you to identify

6:49

what's going to work best in your situation, and

6:51

then helping to navigate the

6:54

the relevant funding to help you secure

6:56

the equipment and the software and the training

6:59

that you need. Because the training is just as important

7:01

in terms of actually getting the most

7:03

out of the equipment that you have or the equipment

7:05

that you need.

7:07

It's a little bit like training with a dog.

7:09

It's not just dog. Here you go. Take

7:12

that's where I go.

7:13

That's right. Yeah, yeah. To get the most

7:15

out of it. Um, it's, you know, it's

7:17

always useful to have some training and, and

7:20

I, I also tend to think, I mean, I've been

7:22

in this industry for 40 years, and I have never

7:24

stopped learning. There's always something new every

7:26

day that I come across. And I think I didn't know

7:28

that. So even if you're a fairly

7:30

experienced technology user,

7:33

sometimes it can be helpful. You know, you can always

7:35

pick up, you know, some tips and tricks and some

7:37

different ideas and perhaps more efficient ways

7:39

of doing things and that sort of thing. So,

7:42

um, you know, we can provide

7:44

training for sort of beginner level right

7:46

through to sort of more advanced, depending on what you

7:48

need and what you're trying to do.

7:51

So on the kind of, um, I guess

7:53

bringing the Senado element

7:55

to it. So. Obviously

7:57

there's kind of that technology that's for your

7:59

computer or your home. Um,

8:01

and then how can you how

8:03

can you use technology or what

8:05

type of access technology aids might someone

8:08

with a dog guide use?

8:10

Um, really.

8:11

There's probably a few different

8:14

categories of, of of technology

8:16

that you might use as a, as a handler.

8:19

Um, so at the sort of

8:21

most basic level,

8:24

there are what I like to call haptic

8:26

devices. So they provide, um,

8:29

feedback in the form of a vibration

8:31

when you're approaching obstacles. So

8:33

there are devices like the mini guide, which is

8:35

a little handheld,

8:38

uh, device, and you can sort of, um,

8:40

pan that around and the

8:43

sensor will pick up if there's an obstacle

8:45

in front of you. Uh, it uses very

8:47

similar technology to what you, you know, the

8:49

reverse parking sensors that are

8:51

used in cars where they beep as you get

8:53

closer to, uh, an object

8:56

rather than an audible beep. It's a vibration.

8:59

And you can sort of set different ranges

9:01

depending on, you know, how,

9:04

how much warning you want, whether you're indoors

9:06

or outdoors. And those things can

9:08

be used in a number of different ways. You

9:10

know, I use one sometimes for picking up,

9:12

uh, things like a, a roadside

9:15

bin after toileting, my dog, um,

9:17

for identifying, you know, shorelines

9:19

along a building and identifying

9:21

doorways and gaps and things like that.

9:25

Um, there's also some

9:27

other devices that have,

9:29

uh. You know, that functionality

9:32

built into, for example, along Kane?

9:35

Um, we have in the past seen some wearable

9:37

type devices that, uh, that

9:39

also include that functionality. So that's

9:42

sort of one and a fairly basic,

9:44

um, you know, device that's relatively

9:47

low tech but still quite, quite helpful.

9:50

Then we go into sort

9:52

of G.P.S. navigation

9:54

type options, and there's a couple of different,

9:58

uh, you know, forms of

10:00

that. So there are some standalone

10:02

GPS devices. So I'm thinking of things

10:05

like the Victoria track and the

10:07

Stella track. So they, um,

10:09

are a standalone handheld

10:11

device with tactile buttons

10:14

that can provide

10:16

sort of turn by turn directions

10:18

when you're trying to get from A to B. Um,

10:21

they do a little more than that, though, in that

10:23

they also give you a description

10:25

of the

10:27

environment. So they'll tell you what type of intersection

10:29

you're approaching for example, uh,

10:32

you can record a travel route.

10:34

So if you, um, need, you know,

10:36

you, you want to go from home

10:38

to your local shop, but the

10:40

safest way to do that is not necessarily

10:43

the most efficient way. From a mapping

10:45

point of view. You can walk that

10:47

travel route with someone once, and then you can

10:49

record that and play it back in sort of

10:51

forward or reverse direction. Uh,

10:54

they have the ability to browse the map, so

10:56

you can sort of have a look at things before

10:58

you set out so that, you know, you

11:00

know, that you're whether you're dealing with

11:02

conventional 3 or 4 way intersections

11:05

or whether you're dealing with the five exits roundabout,

11:07

um, whether you're dealing with major highways or

11:09

just sort of side streets. So you can look

11:11

at your travel around and the

11:13

in the case of the stellar track, uh, it

11:16

actually has a camera as well,

11:18

which can be used for reading signage

11:20

and, um, you know, the

11:22

numbers on shop fronts and those kinds

11:24

of things and that.

11:26

Like, does that automatically kind of read

11:28

out and detect it, or is it something like,

11:31

um, you know, like an IRA type

11:33

thing that connects to.

11:35

No.

11:35

So it's, it's GPS based, but there are different

11:38

modes. So you can sort of have

11:40

it in, uh, an explore mode where

11:42

it tells just tells you what streets you're passing,

11:44

or you can use the camera application.

11:47

So there's sort of a quick reading mode. There's

11:49

an address confirmation mode that does things

11:51

like door detection and stuff like that.

11:53

So you, you know, you do have to drive it

11:55

a little bit in terms of pressing buttons. The

11:57

nice thing about those sorts of devices

11:59

is that. Um, they

12:02

are very tactile, so you can have them clipped to your belt

12:04

and just press the button that you

12:06

want, you know. Um, whereas,

12:09

you know, there are a number of sort of, uh,

12:11

for example, phone based navigation

12:14

solutions, but they tend to

12:16

require, you know, particularly in the case

12:18

of the iPhone, a reasonable amount

12:20

of kind of swiping around the screen to find

12:22

the thing you want. And sometimes that's not always

12:24

as efficient. But, you know, on

12:26

the on the flip side of that, uh,

12:28

if you, you know, if you've already

12:31

got an iPhone, you're not carrying extra

12:33

hardware, charging extra hardware,

12:35

uh, you have the technology sort of there in your pocket

12:37

anyway. And some of the iPhone

12:40

models, like the Pro models, can

12:42

also do things like door detection,

12:44

and they can read signage on doors and those

12:46

sorts of things. So, uh,

12:48

you know, that's that's also

12:51

an option. And, and, you know, it

12:53

can often sort of give you

12:56

the information you need without you necessarily

12:58

having to purchase additional equipment. Uh,

13:00

the other challenge, of course, though, is that, uh,

13:03

funding bodies like the Ndia

13:05

tend to, um, be

13:07

reluctant to fund things like iPhones

13:10

because they class them as everyday items, whereas

13:12

some of your more purpose built devices, they're

13:14

they're more willing to fund. So there

13:16

are sort of pros and cons and it depends

13:19

on your viewpoint and your needs and all of

13:21

those sorts of things as to what

13:23

you what you use. I mean, I, I personally

13:26

use a stellar track because I find that works

13:28

really well for me in the situations

13:30

that I'm in. But I know plenty

13:32

of people who say, no, I only want to carry one device.

13:34

I'll use a, uh, an iPhone. The

13:37

other type of device that we've got is,

13:40

um, sort of phone apps that can provide.

13:43

Visual interpretation. And

13:46

that can take a couple of forms too. So,

13:49

um, there are services like Bemis

13:51

or IRA where you're connected

13:53

via the camera in your phone

13:55

to a human who can

13:57

sort of interpret whatever the camera can see and

13:59

they can give you directions. They can, you know,

14:02

ask you to pan the phone around and, and,

14:04

and, um, you know,

14:06

read signage for you and that kind of thing. If

14:09

you were looking for a cafe or you were looking for a seat

14:11

or something like that. Um, but

14:13

also now increasingly we're sort of starting

14:15

to see, uh, some

14:17

apps that use artificial intelligence

14:19

or AI. So, uh, Be

14:21

My Eyes, for example, has an AI service

14:24

now called, uh, BMI AI where

14:26

you can snap a picture and it will try and interpret

14:29

the, the picture for you, and you can

14:31

ask it questions. So, for example, if you were

14:33

to take a picture of a menu in

14:35

a cafe, uh, you

14:37

could uh, then sort

14:39

of say, what's the cheapest thing on

14:41

the menu? Do they have any fries

14:44

on the menu? What are the gluten free options?

14:46

You know, those sorts of things. So you can,

14:48

you know, it's a lot more interactive than just

14:50

taking the picture and having the contents read

14:52

to you in its entirety. Um, we're

14:55

also starting to see, um,

14:58

some of that technology cross

15:00

over into wearable devices. So there are

15:02

things like the, uh, orcam,

15:04

which can be used as a wearable

15:07

reading aid. There are devices like the envision

15:09

glasses, which are a sort of a wearable,

15:12

a pair of glasses that can do

15:14

some of that sort of eye type thing that

15:16

they can also describe pictures and,

15:18

uh, scan text and those kinds of things.

15:20

So, uh, that's sort of I guess the fourth

15:23

type of device is that, um, wearable

15:25

solution. And you can also have, um,

15:28

the things like the Invision glasses can

15:30

connect to the Iris service, so you can use

15:32

it as a standalone device, or you can

15:34

use it with a sort of a

15:36

visual interpretation service like IRA, where

15:39

the, you know, the the agent is

15:41

actually looking essentially at whatever,

15:43

whatever the camera in your glasses can

15:45

see. So there's a whole range of different

15:48

technologies that you can use.

15:50

Uh, we tend to call them

15:52

secondary aides. So obviously your dog

15:54

guide or if you're a long cane user, your long

15:57

cane is your primary primary

15:59

mobility aide and is used for detecting

16:02

steps and finding, um,

16:04

objects and sort of getting you safely from

16:06

A to B. Um, these

16:08

other devices are more used

16:11

to sort of give you additional information about,

16:13

um, your environment and to provide

16:16

some additional prompts. So, you

16:18

know, I find that, for example, if I'm in an

16:20

unfamiliar environment, using something

16:22

like my Stella Trek enables me to give

16:24

Eboni better directions

16:27

because I know what's around and when to

16:29

sort of tell her to turn and that kind of thing. So

16:31

for me, you know, using

16:34

a dog guide in combination

16:36

with some of these devices, um,

16:39

you know, makes for a much smoother experience and

16:41

probably a better experience for Ebony as well,

16:43

because I'm a little surer about what's around

16:45

me and where I'm where I'm wanting to go.

16:48

Because, I mean, my my kind of understanding is that,

16:50

you know, a scenario, although some will

16:52

occur or dog I will essentially,

16:55

um, like someone will potentially

16:57

kind of guide to a location

16:59

if they've done it lots and lots of times, but it's not a given.

17:02

So and that's the kind of is that

17:04

how the technology kind of works in conjunction

17:06

with the dog is that these things provide that,

17:08

you know, I guess orientation information

17:11

as well. Yes.

17:11

So let me give you an example. I, uh,

17:14

know the local area around

17:16

our corporate office fairly well, you know,

17:19

so I know, uh, and so does

17:21

Ebony. So I know a couple of the local cafes,

17:23

I know the local pie shop, I know the pharmacist,

17:26

um, you know, that, that sort

17:28

of thing. But I had a situation one

17:30

day where I had to go and get a, uh,

17:33

a shoulder X-ray. I'd, um, done myself

17:35

an injury in the gym and, uh, and needed to get an X-ray

17:37

done. And I wasn't exactly sure

17:39

where the,

17:41

uh, X-ray clinic was. I sort of knew within

17:44

a block where it was. So

17:46

we were able to navigate the usual

17:48

sort of street crossings. Ebony's familiar with those,

17:50

and some I, um, but

17:53

the using the sort of the GPS

17:55

component of the stellar track I was able to

17:57

get to within, um,

17:59

you know, maybe ten meters of the, of

18:01

the x ray clinic. But then I used the camera

18:04

application to actually identify,

18:07

um, the door. And it was one of the it was

18:09

a bit of an unusual one because it was sort of set

18:11

back from the, the road. So I

18:13

sort of had to go through down an alleyway

18:16

and up a ramp and

18:18

round a couple of corners where, you know,

18:20

inside the building to actually find it. So being

18:22

able to read the, the door signage

18:24

and that sort of thing actually meant that I was able

18:26

to get much closer than I would

18:29

have, you know, just using the GPS component.

18:31

And, you know, I could

18:33

have probably said to Ebony, find the door,

18:35

but there were a number of doors and

18:38

options to choose from there. So there would have been

18:40

more trial and error, so we would have

18:42

got there. But it was probably an

18:44

easier exercise given the that

18:47

I wasn't familiar with the exact sort

18:49

of location. Um, it was

18:51

a lot easier to sort of use to, to work

18:53

ebony, but also use the technology in conjunction

18:55

with, you know, her, her guiding skills

18:58

and so on.

18:59

Yeah, especially because like I said, if if there's

19:01

kind of a ramp to get to the door and it's

19:03

behind this and then that, and then there's a few other

19:05

doors and a single

19:07

dog is like obviously quite smart. But to

19:09

actually find which is the right specific door

19:12

that you need that happens to have writing on which

19:14

a dog can't understand that, um,

19:16

it's a bit of an ask.

19:17

It is, it is. And so I think

19:19

that sometimes it, you know, having access

19:22

to the technology just gives you a little bit more

19:24

certainty about what's happening. It means

19:26

you're potentially less frustrated, you're providing

19:29

more coherent directions to

19:31

your dog because you you've got

19:33

some of those additional cues. You know,

19:35

the other thing for me is that I travel all around

19:37

the country for my for my role. So,

19:39

you know, I might be in Hobart one

19:41

week, in Darwin the next. Um,

19:44

you know, and in a situation

19:46

like that where you're traveling on your own independently

19:48

with your dog and you're trying to find food, you're trying to find

19:51

a toileting spot, you know, those

19:53

sorts of things. Um, the technology

19:55

really helps as well, because then once you've found

19:57

those things, once you can mark that, you can

19:59

then find your way back and make sure you're

20:01

letting yourself into the right hotel room

20:03

and all of those things. So, you know,

20:06

for the sort of things that I do and the amount

20:08

of, um, unfamiliar environments

20:10

that I seem to find myself in, um,

20:13

you know, I definitely find that access to the technology

20:16

in conjunction with Ebony is, is a really

20:18

good, uh, combination

20:20

and probably gives me the confidence

20:23

to do things that I might otherwise

20:25

hesitate to do.

20:27

Without kind of without either. It would be,

20:29

like, harder for you. Oh, absolutely. Yes.

20:32

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I wouldn't, I wouldn't

20:34

want I certainly you know, and I think it's important

20:36

to stress that, that the technology is not a replacement,

20:39

uh, for your, for your dog guide.

20:41

You know, I sometimes as

20:43

a tech person, people often ask me, do you think we'll

20:46

ever get to the point where we'll have, you know,

20:48

robots or other technology which will

20:50

would negate the need for a dog guide?

20:52

And I sort of have my my response

20:54

to that is always that. I

20:57

really hope not. Because,

20:59

you know, you can't go past the connection

21:02

that you have with another living

21:04

being. Um, you know,

21:06

I guess, I guess, um,

21:09

you know, a piece of technology is just a tool,

21:11

whereas a dog provides, uh,

21:13

a whole nother level of

21:15

interaction and that kind of thing. So

21:17

I, I think that the two in

21:20

combination works really well, but I absolutely

21:22

wouldn't want to be without

21:24

either, uh, my seeing eye

21:26

dog or the, the technology,

21:28

given the stuff that I'm doing, and I and I, I,

21:31

um, hope that we don't get to a

21:33

point where the technology completely replaces,

21:36

uh, the bond that we have with our dogs.

21:39

Yeah. I mean, as much as it's kind of, you know, you can

21:41

say, hey, Siri, it's really not the same

21:43

as the kind of like tail wag and the feeling of a

21:45

dog. That's right. Yes.

21:48

Absolutely. Yeah. And, you

21:50

know, I mean, we, um, my

21:52

wife is blind as well, and it's also a seeing

21:54

eye dog user. And,

21:56

uh, you know, we, we,

21:59

we're quite keen caravanners.

22:01

So we go camping and, uh, you

22:03

know, using again using our dogs

22:05

together with our iPhones and our, uh, G.P.S.

22:08

devices and things like that. Um,

22:10

means that we can navigate

22:12

in all sorts of different situations that we might

22:15

not otherwise. So, yeah, for me, it's a really good

22:17

combination.

22:19

So I think one of the things

22:21

that I should think about with all of those technology,

22:23

um, if you are totally blind so you're

22:26

not kind of relying on magnification, you're probably

22:28

primarily getting that information

22:30

through hearing or a headset.

22:32

Is that correct?

22:33

Yes, generally.

22:34

So. What kind

22:36

of devices do you use that

22:38

are kind of quite safe in public so that you can continue

22:41

to, I guess, be be aware of

22:43

the environment and to listen out for things like cars

22:45

whilst still getting

22:47

that information.

22:49

Yeah, that's a good question. And there are a couple

22:51

of different ways of getting around that. So there

22:53

are the sort of, uh,

22:55

bone conduction type headphones.

22:57

So the idea of those is that the,

23:00

uh, earpieces, rather than actually sitting

23:02

in or over your ears, rest,

23:04

uh, on your cheekbones, and the sound is conducted

23:07

through the bones of your skull. So it

23:09

means that your ears are completely uncovered. You

23:11

can still listen for traffic and that kind of thing,

23:13

but you can also still hear, um,

23:15

the feedback from what,

23:18

you know, your, your, um, phone

23:20

or your, um, G.P.S.

23:22

device or whatever it is that you're using. Um,

23:25

the other option, some of the

23:28

earbuds now. So things like the Apple

23:30

AirPods Pro do have

23:32

a what they call the transparency

23:34

mode, where you're able to listen to what's

23:37

sort of happening around you. So you're

23:39

essentially turning the noise canceling off.

23:42

Personally, I prefer the bone conduction

23:44

type headphones, and the reason for that

23:46

is that I'm I use echolocation

23:49

quite extensively. So that's where you,

23:51

you make a sharp click sort of a

23:54

and you get an echo back from

23:56

objects and things in the environment. And

23:59

you can therefore identify where doorways are

24:01

and where walls and fences

24:03

and trees and parked cars and those

24:05

kinds of things. So

24:07

I find that if I'm using

24:09

the in-ear type earbuds, even in

24:11

sort of transparency mode, they

24:13

it reduces my ability to echolocate.

24:15

And I've kind of find that a little bit frustrating. So

24:18

personally, I really like the

24:20

bone conduction type headphones. But,

24:22

um, you know, there are I know

24:24

some people who are using the sort

24:27

of noise cancelling earbuds with, uh, awareness

24:29

mode or transparency mode to really good

24:31

effect. So, you know, they're, um,

24:33

it's sort of a case of horses for courses

24:36

and people have, you know, particular

24:38

preferences. The bone conduction ones were actually

24:40

originally designed for runners. Um,

24:42

so that if you're out for a jog, you know, you can

24:44

still potentially have your music on. But here

24:46

the, um, the, the traffic

24:48

and the environmental sounds around you, they're probably

24:51

not as high fidelity. You know, if you

24:53

if you really want a high

24:55

fidelity listening experience, they're probably

24:57

not quite the right piece of technology for

24:59

that, but for being

25:02

able to navigate around your environment and still

25:04

hear what's going on. Um, I

25:07

they probably that they would be my,

25:09

my personal preference. But, you know,

25:11

there's um, it's horses

25:13

for courses and you know, everybody has their,

25:16

their preference. So I would sort of encourage people

25:18

to experiment and do your research.

25:20

Think about what what you

25:22

need. You know, what what the sort of primary use

25:24

case for the the device is and

25:26

then and then choose accordingly. But

25:28

they're sort of two options that, that

25:30

I'm aware of and that I know a lot of people use.

25:34

Are there any other kind of tips or suggestions

25:36

that you'd give to other dog handlers

25:38

and or I guess, how can

25:40

someone seek more information or assistance

25:42

from the A-Team?

25:44

Yeah, sure. So, um, you

25:47

know, there there are

25:49

a lot of different options out there. Um,

25:51

as I've said, you know, there are phone based

25:53

solutions, there are free apps,

25:55

there are paid apps, there are, you know,

25:58

standalone devices. So,

26:01

uh, you know, it's always worth sort of having

26:03

a little bit of a chat, probably with

26:05

one of our IT specialists, just to understand what

26:07

those options are and what they look like. And, um,

26:10

you know, so that can be done either by contacting

26:12

your local regional Australia

26:14

office or by, um, calling

26:16

our contact center on one 308

26:19

474 6 or 1 300

26:21

vision. Uh, if you if

26:23

you, you know, not already a,

26:25

um a vision Australia seeing or

26:27

seeing eye dogs um client.

26:30

Um and they can sort of walk you through the process

26:32

and put you in touch with your, your local office.

26:35

There is also, as I mentioned at the start,

26:37

the Access Technology Helpdesk, which you

26:39

can reach in the same way, you can

26:41

call the one 300 number and just ask

26:43

to be put through to the IT helpdesk. Or

26:46

you can um email

26:48

ATC help. That's ATC,

26:51

A for Apple, T for Thomas CFA Charlie

26:53

help at Vision Australia. Org

26:55

and uh you know they can sort of answer

26:58

any general questions you might have about

27:00

different types of devices and what

27:03

their pros and cons are and that kind of thing. But

27:05

really, for a lot of this stuff, I would say it's

27:07

worth actually having a hands on, uh,

27:09

trial, having a look at what's out there

27:12

to see what will actually work

27:14

for you. But, uh, if you just

27:16

need some some help with general troubleshooting

27:18

or general advice, then, um, you

27:20

could always start with the At helpdesk.

27:22

And all of the, uh, staff

27:25

on the helpdesk team are either

27:27

blind or low vision themselves. So they all use

27:29

this stuff day in, day out in their

27:31

daily lives and their professional lives and that

27:33

kind of thing.

27:33

They're not going to recommend anything that they wouldn't use themselves.

27:36

That's that's.

27:37

Absolutely right. Yes. Yeah. So,

27:39

uh, you know, and they, they do understand the,

27:42

I suppose the, the, the

27:44

frustrations too, of our helpdesk

27:46

team, our dog guide users as well. Um,

27:48

you know, so they, they would have a sort of

27:50

a good awareness of, um, what

27:52

technologies work well when you're working your dog.

27:55

So, uh, yeah, they're more than happy

27:57

to, uh, more than happy to to assist

27:59

you.

28:00

Right. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show demo.

28:02

It's been really interesting. It's not something that we've

28:04

had much talk on. Lots of options

28:06

out there.

28:07

Definitely, definitely. And look, thanks for

28:09

thanks for having me on the show. I appreciate the opportunity

28:11

and I hope that, uh, it's been

28:14

of some help or some benefit to your listeners.

28:22

You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog

28:24

show on Virgin Australia Radio.

28:26

I hope you enjoyed my interview with Waymo,

28:29

National Access technology manager

28:31

at Virgin Australia. If you'd like

28:33

to find out more about seeing either the work

28:35

we do or how you can help, or

28:37

if you'd like to find out about becoming a handle with seeing

28:40

if you are blind or have low vision,

28:42

head to our website at said

28:44

Vision Australia. Org. If

28:47

you'd like to get some help with your access

28:49

technology from Vision Australia, you

28:51

can email the help desk

28:53

at Act Help at

28:55

Vision Australia. Org or

28:57

you can ring the A-T helpdesk

28:59

at one 300 vision,

29:02

which is one 384

29:06

7466.

29:08

Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed

29:10

this episode of The Singing Auto Show. Don't

29:12

forget to tune in! Same time next

29:15

week for another episode of The Zero

29:17

Show on Virgin Australia Radio.