0:11

On Fishing Australia radio. You're listening

0:13

to this entire show with me, your

0:15

host, Harriet Moffatt. I've

0:17

got two guests for you today. The first is

0:19

puppy development trainer Steph Shore talking

0:22

about recall. We're going to be talking

0:24

about how to train and maintain a solid

0:26

recall, including around distractions.

0:29

Recall is an important skill for any

0:31

dog handler for the safety and confidence

0:33

of you and your dog, whether that's

0:36

in the house, out in the garden, or

0:38

in a public off lead place. So

0:40

I hope you find these tips useful. Then

0:42

I've got a repeat of some vet tips

0:44

with Doctor Ash Mooney from Seeing Dogs

0:46

vet team talking about body condition

0:49

score in dogs, and how to monitor

0:51

your dog's physical fitness to help

0:53

them be in best health. Now

0:55

here's my interview with Steph Shaw talking

0:58

about recall. Hi

1:05

Steph, thanks for joining me on the show today.

1:07

Thanks, Eric. Glad to be here.

1:09

So I just wanted to talk about something

1:11

that comes up quite a bit and is a pretty important

1:13

thing for, well, anyone's dog,

1:15

whether it's a senior dog, a puppy or

1:18

a working dog or a pet dog, which

1:20

is recall for

1:22

anyone that doesn't know what does. What's the kind of definition

1:24

of recall, or what would you consider to be

1:26

a successful recall?

1:27

Yeah. So that's, I guess,

1:29

getting your dog to come back to you

1:32

as like the ideal

1:34

recall is no matter what your dog's

1:36

doing or where they are. You can call

1:38

them, they'll come back to you to the point where you can take

1:40

the collar, clip deletion and bail out.

1:42

Um, so.

1:44

Yeah, so and like

1:46

you said, when it can be in any environment,

1:49

I mean, the ideal thing really is

1:51

that it's not just, I guess when you're

1:53

in your house and you're calling your dog to you, you know,

1:55

to feed it dinner, because that's going to be

1:57

pretty easy because the dog's going to be

1:59

kind of halfway there. Um, um,

2:01

the minute that you start to step in that direction.

2:03

But that's going to be amongst

2:05

kind of quite interesting things or,

2:08

you know, we're talking about as well, things like recalling

2:10

around other dogs and kids and food

2:12

and that type of stuff. Right. Yeah.

2:14

That's right. It's one of those really

2:16

important skills, but also one

2:18

of the hardest to teach, I guess the

2:20

it's one of those things where teaching the basics

2:23

of it, like getting the dog to move towards you,

2:25

is super easy. But then

2:27

in real life there's so many

2:29

distractions. So having it really

2:32

refined and polished, there's just

2:34

so much work that goes into it.

2:36

And what are the other kind of things that

2:38

I would have mentioned that might make it a little bit harder?

2:41

So when we're thinking about like,

2:43

um, setting up dog training exercises,

2:46

I love to think about the 3DS. So there's

2:48

distance, um, duration

2:50

and distraction. So the distance

2:52

would be like how far

2:55

you are away from your dog. So if you

2:57

were touching your dog's collar,

2:59

took a step back and ask them to come to you.

3:01

Even if there's so many distractions,

3:03

they're probably still going to come like you're right in

3:06

their face there. Um, whereas if

3:08

they were all the way across an oval

3:10

and you call them might be a very different

3:12

story, um, there's your distractions.

3:14

So that's obvious. You know, that example

3:16

of in the House, nothing else is going on.

3:18

You've got a dinner bowl, you are the best thing around.

3:21

They are going to come to you. Whereas, you

3:23

know, the most common time I see people

3:25

call their dog and it not work is when the dog's

3:27

full on playing with another dog, the

3:30

person calls the dog, and if the dog even

3:32

hears them, they kind of go, yeah,

3:34

no, no. Um, and

3:37

then your duration, I guess, is more,

3:39

um, like, how often

3:41

are they getting something good for coming

3:43

back to you? Um, so

3:45

when we're thinking about duration and stays, it's, you

3:47

know, how long can they stay there? But

3:49

for a recall, it's, you know, are they expecting

3:51

every time they come back to you, is something good

3:54

going to happen? Do they know what's going to happen

3:56

is that you only call them when you're

3:58

about to clip the leash on and leave

4:00

the park, and they start to anticipate

4:02

like, ah, I don't want to come back to you because

4:04

I'm not ready to go yet. I am having a lot of

4:06

fun over here. Yeah.

4:09

And I guess as well, um, you know, when

4:11

we're talking about, like, distractions, it's also like

4:13

the environmental factors, right? So, like, you know, if you're

4:15

at a park, it's not just the dogs. It's also like

4:17

the scent or whatever is particularly

4:20

reinforcing for that dog.

4:21

Yeah, absolutely.

4:22

And is that something you'd consider as well in terms of

4:25

like that, how you'd reinforce

4:27

the recall.

4:28

Yeah, yeah. And different dogs will have different

4:30

things that are reinforcing to them. So,

4:32

you know, some of the dogs that I work with love

4:35

squeaky toys, um, even

4:37

to the point where it's better than kibble. Like, if

4:39

you take their squeaky tug and you squeak it in the

4:41

park, they will come back to you. Yeah. Um,

4:43

whereas for another dog, you could do that,

4:46

and they would just completely

4:48

blank you. Like, they don't give a

4:50

shit.

4:51

It's like Labradors and some some with tennis

4:53

balls and others are like, what

4:55

is it? Why would.

4:56

I. Yeah, yeah. So it's about knowing

4:58

your dog and what's high value

5:01

for them. Um, and also mixing it

5:03

up a little bit, like if they know

5:05

that if they come, they're going to get one

5:07

piece of kibble. But,

5:09

you know, there's a whole group of dogs and

5:11

they really want to say hi to them. They might

5:13

bail out, but if there's a chance that they might

5:15

get a, you know,

5:18

a sardine or a piece of roast chicken

5:20

that they never are allowed to get, maybe you've

5:22

got a better chance of actually getting them to come back,

5:24

because it's that maybe it's that gambling

5:26

factor.

5:27

Yeah.

5:28

So when we're talking about, I

5:30

suppose, kind of going to the basics, if

5:32

your dog has absolutely, you know, no

5:34

awareness of recall. So we're maybe talking about

5:37

a baby puppy here or, or

5:39

either that or a dog that you've never met before or,

5:41

I don't know, a rescue dog. Yeah. How

5:44

do you start teaching that baby puppy

5:46

recall?

5:47

Yeah. Um, so one of the ways that they

5:49

do it that starts even before they go out to their puppy

5:51

carers is whistle training. So

5:54

we'd blow the whistle and put the food ball down.

5:56

So they're starting to associate. They

5:58

hear that whistle and something amazing happens.

6:01

Um, so they start to hear that whistle and come running.

6:04

Um. And from there it's sort of,

6:06

um, building up that distance a little bit. So

6:08

it might be practicing around the house

6:10

when you think your puppy's going to come to you anyway.

6:13

So not when they're right in the middle of chewing

6:15

something, but when they're kind of looking

6:17

bored and vaguely wandering your direction.

6:19

Call them over bop bop bop gum. Um,

6:22

and then give them something fun. It might be,

6:24

you know, in the house, you're the best thing happening.

6:26

They love you. So even just a bit of a praise

6:28

and a tickle. It might be a toy, it might be

6:30

a kibble, um, doing

6:33

things like moving away from them. So they're

6:35

following you. So triggering that bit of a

6:37

playful chasing instinct.

6:40

Um, can be super, super helpful,

6:42

um, at getting dogs to come back to you. Um,

6:45

and one of the things that I

6:47

love to practice with puppies quite young is

6:49

the collar touch game. So reaching down,

6:51

touching their collar, and then giving the treat

6:54

because I see so many dogs that'll

6:57

come towards you, and then

6:59

you go to put the leash on and they run away

7:01

again. Um,

7:03

so actually sort of teaching that as part of the behavior,

7:06

come back until I can touch your collar and

7:08

there's your reward and go and grab.

7:09

And reach for you and it's going to be this is this

7:11

is the win here.

7:12

Yeah. Yep. Um, and it's about

7:14

sending them then back to play

7:17

most of the time. So it's we're trying

7:19

to make it um, they're

7:21

expecting when they're getting called something

7:24

good is going to happen. Um,

7:26

rather than I'm calling you over and

7:28

I'm shoving you into a bath tub, or

7:30

I'm looking in aisles, I'm giving you your medication.

7:33

Yeah. Those things that maybe they don't

7:36

particularly enjoy doing. Yeah.

7:38

So when we've done a bit of recall

7:40

inside the house and the puppy started to come pretty reliably

7:43

in those easier, I

7:46

guess, in those easier or less tempting environments,

7:48

how do we start to build up and,

7:50

and and or on? In the same vein, if you've

7:52

got a dog that is kind of or

7:54

maybe this is actually different, you know, that

7:56

kind of knows it, but sometimes picks

7:58

and chooses, how do you, you know, I

8:01

guess get them to recall

8:03

even if the place or environment or

8:05

there's a bit more of a distraction going on.

8:07

Yeah, yeah. So I guess, um, safety

8:09

is really important. So, you know, you're not

8:11

going to take your dog out with an imperfect

8:13

recall and take them off leash next to

8:15

a busy road. Um, that is just asking

8:18

for trouble. So, um, setting up something

8:20

like maybe a longer

8:22

leash than normal or something like

8:24

that where you can, um, you

8:26

know, make sure the coat is off if they've got

8:28

a training jacket so they

8:30

know it's different than their normal walk. So you're actually

8:32

doing a specific exercise. You're

8:35

going to encourage them to go and sniff

8:37

and then wait for a moment where

8:39

they're just sort of looking up from something that's interesting.

8:41

So maybe they've seen a bird

8:43

off a little way away and they've gone, oh,

8:46

an interesting bird. And then the bird flies

8:48

off and they go, oh, okay. Um,

8:50

call them in that moment because they're going

8:52

to be looking for the next interesting thing. Um,

8:54

and they're very likely to run over to

8:57

you and again, doing a, some steps

8:59

away, um, making cheerful noises.

9:01

So think like, um, playschool

9:04

presenter, like, well, look what's happening

9:07

over here.

9:07

Yay. A bit of a crouch in it. Yeah.

9:10

Gesture and stuff. Absolutely.

9:12

Yeah. So thinking about, you know, when puppies

9:14

are playing with each other, um, if

9:16

one puppy wants to get the other puppy to chase them,

9:18

what do they do? They do that, like

9:20

play bear. They get all bouncy

9:22

and silly. They might pick up a toy and

9:25

wave it around like, I've got this. Do you want

9:27

this? Um, so

9:29

taking some of those just silly,

9:31

fun things, the high pitched noises,

9:34

the whistling, um, to

9:37

just really encourage the puppy to come and

9:40

enjoy your presence for a little bit. Call

9:42

them over, give him a treat, have a play, have a

9:44

cuddle, have a great time with them so

9:46

that then you can send them back into the world.

9:48

But they're thinking, oh, I kind of didn't want that

9:50

to end. I was having such a great time

9:52

hanging out with you, and now you're sending

9:54

me out into this boring paddock with nothing to do.

9:57

Um, so having that leash, there is that bit

9:59

of, um, a safety backup. So

10:01

they can't mess up. They can't

10:04

run away. Yeah. Um, but you're not

10:06

using it to drag them in towards

10:08

you over and over again. You're using

10:10

all of those other things to get them

10:12

in. Um, and.

10:14

That's kind of also to some degree, a kind of legal

10:16

requirement, isn't it, that if a dog is going to be

10:18

awfully they have to you have to have kind of effective

10:20

control. Right? So just as a

10:22

as a note, I'm assuming that, yeah, if you don't

10:24

have that, um, yeah. If you don't have

10:27

that perfect recall, um,

10:29

that long line also is a little bit of a

10:31

kind of legal precaution as well to take

10:33

or safety.

10:34

But yeah, absolutely.

10:36

Like I think we've all had the

10:38

situation of driving down the road and seeing

10:40

a dog off leash next to the road and you don't

10:42

know what it's going to do. And it's that moment of panic.

10:45

It's very it's very scary.

10:48

Um, so yeah, you know, keep keep your pups

10:50

safe. Um, but, um,

10:52

you know, it's building from, you know,

10:54

maybe the long line depends like,

10:56

um, on your puppy and your situation,

10:59

but maybe you've got somewhere safe that you can

11:01

let them do play. So, you know, maybe

11:03

you go to. Um, the

11:05

house of a friend who's also raising a seeing

11:08

eye dog puppy or something. Let them have a bit of a play

11:10

and practice in that controlled

11:12

environment of calling them away from

11:14

play. And you might need to really

11:16

reduce your distance when you do that. So,

11:18

you know, calling them from the other side of the yard isn't

11:20

going to work, but maybe going up, touching

11:22

the collar, getting them to come one step, giving

11:25

them a treat and then sending them both back into

11:27

play and.

11:28

Kind of starting before they're right in that middle

11:30

of the kind of.

11:30

Yeah, waiting for waiting for a pause

11:33

in the play. So healthy dog play

11:35

will have ups and downs. They'll do their

11:37

zoom and around and chase, and then

11:39

you'll see them break off and sniff the ground.

11:42

And that's your perfect time to. Hey, come

11:44

over here. Um, and we, we

11:46

do want, with our recall to build

11:48

up to the point where we can call them away

11:50

from, you know, maybe chasing an animal

11:53

or playing with a dog that's looking

11:55

like it's getting a bit too much. But

11:57

it does take a lot of patterning of,

12:00

um, just building that muscle memory

12:02

of hear the word come to you hear the word come to you

12:04

until they're not really consciously thinking about

12:07

it. Because if they consciously think about

12:09

it, it's not like.

12:10

Consider against.

12:11

It. Yeah, actually, I'd rather

12:13

chase that bird. Thank you. Um,

12:15

yeah.

12:16

And so just to kind of, I guess finish

12:19

off, you know, if you've gone that way and

12:21

you think, oh, you know, I'm, I'm ready for this. And

12:23

then your dog has, you know, I guess,

12:25

made that choice to maybe

12:27

not come. Then what might

12:29

you do?

12:30

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so

12:32

I guess there's two main situations where

12:34

that happens a lot. And one would be the

12:36

dogs dashed out the front door. Um,

12:39

so, you know, you've had a guest over. They've

12:42

stood around chatting and the dogs just go and you say,

12:44

dog, come inside and they go, oh, are

12:47

they not? Um, so in that

12:49

situation, um, what

12:51

you don't want to do is run after the dog

12:53

because they see you coming and they go chasing them

12:56

and they run off. Um, but doing something

12:58

like, um, dropping kibble or

13:00

even if you don't have kibble, like, pretending

13:02

that you have and going, oh, this is really

13:04

interesting over here. Look what I found. If

13:06

they love the car, maybe unlocking

13:09

the car, um, and they'll hear their

13:11

car and go, oh, we're going on an adventure.

13:13

Um, so sometimes those sorts of things work,

13:16

um, or otherwise, just slowly

13:18

following them down, ask them

13:20

to sit and

13:23

then get them and then go back inside,

13:25

um, to avoid the chase. Um, if you're

13:28

at the park and they've just given you the finger

13:30

and gone, nah, I don't want to, um, think about

13:32

what can I change? What can I make easier?

13:34

So standing around calling them over

13:36

and over and over, and I see

13:38

people do this in all different ways. Dog.

13:41

Um. Dog count. Dog biscuits.

13:43

Dog, dog. Come here. Um.

13:45

And the yelling, probably less helpful.

13:47

Yeah, exactly. And the dog just doesn't.

13:49

It's not getting through. It's not working. So

13:51

the change of tone of voice doesn't really do

13:54

a whole lot. But, um,

13:56

thinking about, oh, can I move closer

13:58

to them? Can I use different body

14:01

language? Could I do I have my whistle?

14:03

Do I have a squeaky toy? Like, what can I

14:05

change about this set

14:07

up to make it more inviting for

14:09

my dog to come over, or harder

14:11

for them to ignore me? Yeah.

14:14

Um, sometimes getting other people involved

14:16

can help. So if your dog is wrestling

14:19

with another dog, and every time your dog

14:21

thinks about coming away, the other dog jumps

14:23

on top of them and restarts. That's a really

14:25

common one. So even asking the other

14:27

person to also call their dog

14:29

can give you a much better chance

14:31

of getting your dog to come back to you.

14:33

And I guess in in those kind of circumstances

14:35

too, is like setting it up

14:37

better next time so that if they're going

14:40

to, you know, if they're not going to come back, then

14:42

maybe it's not quite time for that experience

14:44

yet.

14:45

Yeah. And I've definitely had the situation even

14:47

with like really well trained dogs that

14:49

they just have an an off day and they just really

14:51

want to roll in a dead rabbit.

14:54

Oh, and I just have to go up to

14:56

them. I'll call them back and I

14:58

just go, you know what? You've lost your off leash privileges

15:00

for the day. Clip the leash on. Off we go.

15:02

Like there are days you just have to do that.

15:04

Yeah, um, as well.

15:05

And at the end of the day, you know, it

15:09

happened. And it's not something that they should be punished

15:11

for.

15:12

Yeah. You know, they, their dogs,

15:14

it's they like asking

15:17

them to leave all these amazing

15:19

things, um, about being a dog,

15:22

the best thing about being a dog is using your

15:24

nose, playing with other dogs, rolling and

15:26

dead rabbits. Um, so asking

15:28

them to leave all of that come

15:30

here and focus and switch your brain on. You know,

15:32

sometimes they're just not in the mood for

15:35

it. That's so understandable.

15:37

Some days you just want to chuck a sticky.

15:39

You're not going to work, I'm sure. So,

15:41

yeah, they're the same.

15:44

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for giving us some great

15:46

tips on on recall. It's a it's a

15:48

really important one. So anyone with a dog

15:50

out there worth the worth a practice.

15:52

Thank you. You've

15:59

been listening to this Seeing Our Dog show on

16:01

Virgin Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed

16:03

those interviews with Steph Shore, puppy development

16:05

trainer talking about recall. If

16:08

you need assistance with your recall, don't

16:10

forget to reach out to your trusted

16:12

dog trainer, including

16:14

if you're a singer, puppy, foster

16:16

breeder, carer, you're seeing dog

16:19

stuff, contact, or if you're a single handler

16:21

reaching out to an instructor if you need

16:23

assistance with this or any other training

16:25

problems. Now I'm going to be

16:28

playing an interview with Ash Mooney

16:30

from the senior vet team from the archives

16:32

talking about body condition score.

16:34

Thank you for listening. So when we talk

16:36

about body condition score

16:39

in dogs, what, uh, what is that? What's

16:41

the body condition score?

16:42

So, um, body condition scoring

16:45

is pretty much our way

16:47

of telling whether or not dogs are under

16:49

or overweight. Um, given

16:52

that there's so many different breeds of dogs.

16:54

So it's not like humans where you can

16:56

kind of go based off of, um, BMI

16:59

or just a weight, um,

17:01

because, you know, a Chihuahua

17:03

obviously weighs significantly different than

17:05

a Great Dane. Um, so and

17:07

going by numbers, you know, if you have

17:09

a cross breed or anything, it can be quite difficult

17:12

to to know what amount of

17:14

kilograms your animal should weigh. Um,

17:16

so body condition score is much easier.

17:18

And it's what, um, that's used in conjunction

17:21

with the weight to, to determine whether or not

17:23

your animal is, uh, healthy

17:25

weight. So you can always

17:27

do a little Google search for a body condition

17:29

scoring chart. Sometimes those are quite helpful

17:32

because you can see the little pictures

17:34

and kind of match the picture to your own animal.

17:37

Um, but a really basic rundown

17:39

of it is what I like to do is

17:41

run my hands along the ribs

17:43

of an animal. You should feel

17:45

their ribs with gentle pressure if they're

17:47

a nice, healthy weight, if

17:49

the ribs are just sticking out and you barely

17:51

have to touch the animal to feel their ribs,

17:53

they're definitely too skinny. If you have

17:55

to dig your fingers in to

17:58

feel the ribs, then they're definitely overweight.

18:00

Um, so I think that that's a really easy

18:03

way of judging whether or not your animal

18:05

is an adequate weight at home.

18:07

Um, you know, obviously things like

18:10

pregnancy and stuff like that can affect it. But,

18:12

um, in general, it works

18:14

pretty well for animals. You can

18:16

also do things like looking to see if they have

18:19

a waist, um, you know,

18:21

a nice little tuck of their tummy. Again,

18:23

there are lots of lots of photos of these.

18:25

Um, and the body condition scoring

18:27

is something that there are charts for pretty

18:29

much every species for. So if you

18:32

have a, a cat or a

18:34

bird or a horse, um, you can

18:36

look up the body condition scoring for

18:38

those animals as well. Um, and they're just

18:40

a bit different because the animals have different anatomy.

18:43

But I guess I was thinking that my, my

18:45

next question is going to be about kind of why,

18:47

you know, is, is weight a metric of

18:49

fitness even kind of with like littermates

18:52

or dogs of the same breed, which you've kind of covered it.

18:54

It's interesting, isn't it, because you'll have two littermates

18:56

and one of them's tall and one of them's,

18:58

you know, a completely different build, even of

19:00

the same breed. And I know kind of standard,

19:03

standard breeding makes it a little bit less

19:05

that that way. But you can't really

19:07

just say ours should be the same weight

19:09

because they're even siblings, can you?

19:11

No, you can't, because, um, yeah, they can

19:13

be different sizes. One might have been the runt of

19:15

the litter. Um, you know,

19:17

it can really vary between animals,

19:20

and there are medical conditions that

19:22

can make it really difficult for an animal

19:24

to either gain sufficient weight or

19:27

lose sufficient weight. Um, so,

19:29

you know, if your animal is

19:31

at a non-ideal body score

19:34

and you modify the diet and the exercise

19:36

and you're not seeing results, you're,

19:38

you know, either not seeing a skinny animal

19:40

get to a more healthy weight

19:43

or a chubby animal get skinnier.

19:46

Um, then it's probably worth discussing

19:48

with your vet, maybe running a blood test to

19:50

make sure that there isn't, um, any

19:52

sort of endocrine or hormonal

19:54

cause that's preventing them from

19:56

achieving a healthy weight.

19:59

So are there even any kind of other factors

20:01

that would make, say this, a dog

20:03

of like the same height as another,

20:06

a different, different weight?

20:08

Um, some of.

20:09

It can be musculature.

20:11

Um, some of it could be the

20:13

actual diet they're being fed. So

20:15

you might be, you know, at a dog

20:17

park or something, and you're talking about how you both

20:20

feed two cups of food to your

20:22

Labrador a day, but every food

20:24

has a different amount of calories, so you can't

20:26

actually go by volume. You have to go

20:28

by the calories in the food

20:30

that you're feeding. Um, and,

20:32

and pretty much all animal foods have

20:34

a feeding guide on the back where they tell you

20:37

how much you should feed. And

20:39

you know what kind of volume equals the appropriate

20:42

amount of calories. Um, so

20:44

not all not all foods are the same

20:46

for sure. And that that

20:48

can be a really big factor. And it's something that's

20:50

often lost, um, when people

20:52

are talking casually about their animals

20:54

diets.

20:55

I suppose, with the confetti

20:57

chart. As well. That would be something to kind of keep in

20:59

mind that actually that will also

21:01

depend on the dog's exercise

21:03

needs. So you kind of actually just go

21:05

that that's got to be it. So if they're fat then

21:07

that's not correct because

21:10

that's what the thing that says.

21:11

Yeah.

21:11

So um, some, some brands

21:13

will give.

21:14

You like an active versus inactive

21:17

animal, um feeding guide. So

21:19

if you have a really kind of couch potato

21:21

animal, it'll tell you to feed a bit less

21:23

if you have, um, you know, like

21:25

a working dog that's running

21:27

30 K a day, um, you're

21:30

going to have to feed it more because it's expending more

21:32

energy. And usually there

21:34

is a guide on that. Or if

21:36

you speak to your vet, they might discuss

21:38

an alternative diet that's more appropriate

21:41

to your animal's activity levels.

21:43

Um, I guess it is important to note

21:45

that the main way that we manage weight in

21:47

animals is through diet, um, rather

21:50

than through exercise. Exercise

21:52

is great for their muscles and

21:54

their bones and all of that, but it's

21:56

not going to make a

21:58

massive difference in their body weight.

22:01

Um, so if you have a chubby dog

22:03

that you're trying to get to lose weight, walking an

22:05

extra K a day won't work

22:08

as effectively as reducing the

22:10

amount of food you're feeding it.

22:12

When it when we're kind of looking at that,

22:14

um, judging the the the body

22:16

conditioned by touch with that

22:18

kind of negate some of the issues with people,

22:21

you know, kind of thinking, oh, my dog's just

22:23

fluffy or, or longhaired

22:25

or something. Yeah.

22:26

Yeah. Um, you know, it definitely does

22:29

affect it. A lot of people, especially

22:31

now that, um, poodle crosses are

22:33

really common and they're very, very fluffy.

22:36

Um, you know, it can be really hard to tell how

22:39

large a dog actually is when it's furry. So

22:41

the running your hands along the ribs, I

22:43

think is the easiest way of getting

22:45

an objective measurement. Um,

22:48

certainly easier than putting it on a

22:50

scale and trying to piece together with the number means,

22:53

um, your animal might be fat

22:55

and fluffy, and that's fine. Um,

22:57

I think the other big thing is kind

22:59

of changing our,

23:01

um, mindset on what a dog should look

23:03

like. Um, so, for example,

23:06

I have a golden retriever who is

23:08

a great body condition. She's

23:11

kind of right on where I want

23:13

her to be. You know, being a vet's dog.

23:15

Um, you you'd hope that'd be the case, but,

23:17

um, people often come up to me and tell

23:19

me that she's too skinny, um, because

23:22

they're so accustomed to seeing obese

23:24

golden retrievers that they think that the obese

23:26

ones are actually what they should look

23:28

like normally, and that anything

23:30

that's a healthy body weight is actually too skinny.

23:33

Um, so I think that if we're constantly seeing

23:36

overweight animals, it's easy

23:38

to normalize them. But you need

23:40

to recognize that just because a lot are overweight,

23:42

it doesn't mean that they're all healthy.

23:44

It might just mean that there's a lot of unhealthy

23:47

animals of that breed, isn't it?

23:49

Something like half

23:51

of dogs are overweight.

23:53

There's some statistic and it's like mind blowing.

23:56

I don't know.

23:57

The actual numbers, but you know,

23:59

colloquially from my experiences

24:02

in private practice, I would say that

24:04

it would be at least half of them. Um,

24:06

and sometimes it's, you know, people

24:09

genuinely don't know or,

24:11

um, you know, they do think that they're supposed to be

24:14

bigger. Um, it

24:16

can be quite difficult when people just get

24:18

a lot of enjoyment out of feeding

24:20

their animal. Um, and, you know, their

24:22

animal loves it, and they're animals happy when they

24:24

give them food, stuff like that. But,

24:27

um, I guess it's it's important to remember

24:29

that you can kill something with kindness.

24:32

Um, and making them overweight

24:34

does predispose them to a lot of

24:36

issues, um, issues with their

24:38

heart. They can get arthritis earlier.

24:42

Um, they can have things like gastrointestinal

24:45

or pancreatic issues. They can

24:47

get diabetes. Um, really

24:49

the the list is endless. And and

24:51

on average, an overweight dog actually

24:53

lives two years less than a

24:56

normal weight dog.

24:57

I think it's really, um, it's

24:59

really interesting, like, um, I find, you know, obviously

25:01

this kind of being anecdotal, but when

25:03

I was growing up, I had a golden retriever who was,

25:06

uh, a little bit overweight. When I say

25:08

a little bit, I mean quite overweight when she was growing

25:10

up and and when she actually lost

25:12

that weight, she was actually just a happier

25:14

dog. Like, she became more

25:16

active at age seven than she had been when she

25:18

was three and four because she was

25:21

many kilos lighter.

25:24

And, um, yeah.

25:25

It does make a big difference. And, you know.

25:26

Even humans who have lost

25:29

weight and have gone from being, um,

25:31

profoundly overweight to being,

25:33

you know, more of a healthy weight, um,

25:35

they report having increased energy

25:37

and it's easier to move.

25:39

They don't have as many aches and pains. So

25:41

you can you can extrapolate

25:43

that it would be very similar for dogs,

25:45

even though a dog can't tell you that in

25:47

English.

25:49

The other kind of lost thing I was thinking

25:51

is, um, for people that have,

25:53

I guess, um, breeds that

25:55

are kind of maybe bigger or more muscled.

25:58

And they're not entirely sure what that should look like.

26:00

Um, so I've got a friend who's got a, you know, a bull

26:03

Arab, so quite kind of big and and chunky

26:05

and it's just, like, solid. Can you

26:07

work with a probably what,

26:09

say, work with a vet to work out what that

26:11

body score should look like?

26:13

Yeah, definitely. You know, it can be a bit

26:15

difficult. Um, I find things like

26:17

bulldogs and. Yeah, bull Arab some

26:19

some kind of really muscly staff

26:22

guys. Um, those kinds of dogs

26:24

can be hard to body condition score because they

26:26

have so much muscle on them.

26:28

Um, that you can't really tell. And

26:30

that's also an issue that human athletes

26:33

face because their muscle weighs so much

26:35

that it actually puts them in a BMI

26:37

that's considered overweight, even

26:39

if they're an Olympian or something, and they're

26:41

clearly a very fit individual.

26:44

Um, so.

26:45

You can that's.

26:45

Definitely a situation where I'd work with your vet.

26:47

The the body condition scoring to

26:50

some degree will work because typically

26:52

the muscles that overlay the ribs

26:55

don't get super massive.

26:57

You know, your dog isn't out there doing

26:59

any like lat exercises

27:01

and stuff like that. So, um, usually

27:04

you can still do the running your hands along

27:06

the ribs trick with a very muscly

27:08

dog. Um, but if your dog just has

27:10

a kind of awkward body shape and you really

27:12

can't tell, just bring them into the vet. And

27:15

it's not a big deal. We can always discuss

27:17

a plan and figure out if it's

27:19

actually a good way or not. For your animal,

27:21

it's just us giving you that advice because

27:24

we want what's best for them and what's

27:26

going to keep them healthiest for longest.

27:28

Um, it's not a commentary on who

27:30

you are as a person or your lifestyle

27:32

or any of that. It's not meant to be offensive.

27:35

It's we're just meant to be, I

27:37

guess, championing the welfare of.

27:42

You've been listening to the single Dog Show

27:44

on Fishing Australia Radio. I

27:46

hope you enjoyed my interviews with puppy

27:48

development trainer Steve Shaw, talking about

27:50

recall and with Doctor Ash Mooney

27:53

talking about Body Condition Score.

27:55

If you'd like to find out more about seeing

27:57

Eye dogs, the work we do, or how you can

27:59

help. Head to our website at Cedar

28:02

Vision australia.org. Don't

28:04

forget to tune in! Same time next week

28:06

for another episode of The Senior Dog Show

28:08

on Virgin Australia Radio.