0:35

On Vision Australia Radio. You're

0:38

listening to the Seeing Eye dog show

0:40

with me, your host, Harry Moffatt.

0:42

Today I'm joined by seeing

0:44

eye dog vet team member, Doctor

0:46

Ash Moon, who's going to talk to us about

0:49

waterborne parasites. These are

0:51

a bit more common in winter months and

0:53

cooler months. So we're going to be talking about

0:55

those parasites and what they mean

0:58

for our dog's health. Then

1:00

I'm going to be playing a repeat from Doctor

1:02

Nicola Cotner, the manager of reproduction

1:05

and veterinary services, talking about

1:07

the breeding strategy for seeing Eye Dog.

1:09

So how we create future generations

1:11

of seeing eye dogs. Without

1:13

further ado, here is my first interview with

1:15

Doctor Ash. So

1:23

I would like to talk a little bit about some water borne

1:25

parasites, but I think probably a good place to start,

1:27

especially for us non-science people, is

1:30

what is a parasite.

1:31

So a parasite is a generic term

1:33

for really any organism that

1:35

can colonize the body that may

1:37

or may not, you know, need to be there.

1:40

And parasites can involve worms, which

1:42

is often what we hear about. But you can also think

1:44

of outside parasites. So

1:46

things like fleas and ticks,

1:48

there's other things like amoeba that can

1:50

also be parasites. So it's a pretty

1:53

broad term that encompasses

1:55

a lot of bugs that can be either inside

1:57

or outside of the body.

1:59

If we're talking about waterborne

2:01

parasites, what type of parasites might

2:03

they be?

2:04

So, um, a lot of parasites that are

2:06

in the water, especially, um, in

2:08

the kind of colder winter months where there's

2:10

more rain, there's more kind of idle water

2:13

on the ground can be things like

2:15

giardia, which is a common diarrhoea

2:17

parasite in dogs and cats, and

2:19

can also end up in humans. Unlike

2:22

like.

2:22

Say, ticks that you were talking about before, those

2:24

are kind of microscopic type

2:27

parasites. Is that correct? Yeah.

2:28

You you can't see them with the naked eye.

2:31

Um, but you can see them under a microscope

2:33

pretty easily. So if you were to get a sample

2:36

of a puddle, for example, and put it under

2:38

a microscope, it would be quite easy to tell if

2:40

it was in there. The waterborne parasites are

2:42

often more common in the cooler

2:44

winter months, especially after long periods

2:46

of rain. You might also get them a lot

2:49

near stagnant water, like the places

2:51

where you see a lot of algae growing and

2:53

mosquitoes and things like that, and

2:55

certainly more mosquitoes. Mosquitoes are

2:57

a way that parasites can be transferred.

2:59

They like to transfer it through blood, so

3:02

more heavy mosquito areas can also lead

3:04

to a higher parasite burden. The main

3:06

thing to know about parasites is that most of

3:08

them can be prevented and treated with

3:10

regular flea and warming products

3:13

that you are meant to do regularly.

3:15

Whatever product it is, it just depends on the brand

3:17

in terms of how often you do it. But

3:20

there are some parasites like giardia,

3:22

that cannot be prevented with

3:24

medication and just have to be prevented

3:26

by avoiding the areas where they're more

3:28

so.

3:29

I suppose that's kind of the case of like if you see

3:31

your your dog drinking at a

3:33

slightly festive looking puddle,

3:35

maybe pull them away.

3:37

Yeah, you certainly don't want your dog

3:39

drinking at a pretty gross puddle.

3:41

Um, or often in Melbourne,

3:43

if if you go to a dog park regularly,

3:45

sometimes those dog parks will have some sort

3:48

of social media, and they'll let you

3:50

know if there's been a recent gastro outbreak.

3:52

Typically, if you hear of a gastro outbreak happening

3:55

at a dog park, it is often more of

3:57

a parasite related kind of

3:59

burden. Sometimes it can be a virus passed

4:01

between the animals, or it could be a bacteria

4:03

living in the water as well. But

4:05

a lot of the times it is a parasite based

4:08

gastro issue. So what are.

4:09

The symptoms of a parasite like giardia?

4:12

Most often you'll see, um,

4:14

either some vomiting, um,

4:16

diarrhea, which can be ranging

4:19

from, you know, very loose, watery

4:21

diarrhea to something that's a bit more like

4:23

mucus, um, which can be pretty disgusting

4:25

to, to think about. But it's important

4:28

to inspect your animal's feces

4:30

every time they go, just to make sure that nothing

4:32

is out of the normal for your

4:34

own animal. Some animals,

4:36

especially if they have a quite robust

4:38

immune system, won't show any signs

4:40

other than being a bit off their food.

4:43

Or maybe they might look a little bit bloated

4:45

or have more flatulence

4:47

in the home, especially really smelly

4:50

flatulence. If that's a drastic

4:52

change from their normal, that might

4:54

be an indication that maybe something like that

4:56

is occurring.

4:57

And something like diarrhea cannot cause, um, blood

4:59

in the stools as well.

5:00

Yes, it certainly can cause blood in the

5:02

schools. Um, blood in the stools can happen for

5:04

a number of reasons. It can be from the

5:07

parasite kind of doing things to the intestinal

5:09

lining. It could be from the dog going

5:11

to the toilet so much that they're starting to strain

5:14

and everything is getting quite irritated inside.

5:17

Um, so there's, there's a number of reasons why you might

5:19

see blood in the stool. And even if you don't

5:21

see blood in the stool, but your animal is

5:23

feeling unwell, um, not

5:25

themselves, it's always better to

5:28

make sure that you go to the vet right away.

5:30

So, um, I suppose obviously you're

5:32

going to be working with your vet for this, but

5:34

how are parasites like that treated?

5:37

Um, most of the time they're treated with,

5:39

um, specific anti parasite

5:41

medications. And the type of medication

5:44

really just depends on the actual

5:46

parasite. So you know, if you've been

5:48

a Covid conspiracy theorist

5:50

and you've been hearing a lot about ivermectin, which is

5:52

a common anti parasite treatment, I

5:54

would not recommend just giving that to your animal

5:56

because that only works against specific parasites.

5:59

It's really important to check in

6:01

with your vet and make sure you use a product

6:03

that is appropriate for your animal,

6:06

especially as there are some anti parasite

6:08

treatments that are really not

6:10

okay to give to certain dog breeds.

6:12

There are certain dog breeds that have quite severe

6:14

reactions to them. Um, and

6:17

that's not something I'll get into in detail, but it is

6:19

important to always speak with your veterinarian.

6:21

Out which drug to use. Um,

6:24

and I guess the biggest thing with any sort of

6:26

diarrhoea or vomiting, any

6:28

gastro based disease, is that you need to maintain

6:30

really good hand hygiene because

6:32

you never know if it's something that can be passed on

6:35

to you.

6:36

That was going to be my next question. Can, uh,

6:38

conduct with parasites kind of pass them on to

6:40

dogs, people, other animals?

6:43

Um, and in the case of Giardia, that is one of those ones,

6:45

isn't it?

6:45

Yeah. So Giardia can be passed on

6:47

to people. It's actually often found in

6:50

swimming pools that a lot of young children

6:52

go into. So something to watch out for

6:54

as well. Can also get giardia from other

6:56

sources, not just animals. But the most

6:59

important thing is maintain good hand hygiene.

7:01

If you are immunosuppressed for

7:03

any reason, maybe it's better that

7:05

you don't handle your animals feces or

7:08

anything like that while they're on well,

7:10

and somebody else in your household deals with

7:12

it. And also, if you have young children,

7:14

it can be quite hard. Sometimes they're, you

7:16

know, licking the dog or things

7:18

like that. And even if your dog looks

7:20

clean to the naked eye, there could

7:22

be microscopic particles somewhere on

7:24

your dog's coat. So make sure

7:26

you give your dog a really good bath once they've recovered,

7:29

and also still maintain washing your hands

7:31

after every single time you interact

7:33

with your animal just to stay nice and safe.

7:36

I mean, we love dogs, but thinking

7:38

about that kind of particular stuff doesn't

7:40

make them as appealing to us to sit and kiss

7:42

and cuddle, does it?

7:44

No. And as of that, I actually no

7:46

longer kiss other animals because

7:48

it is quite easy to get these diseases.

7:50

Um, and I have gotten, um, things like parasites

7:53

from animals before. And the unfortunate

7:55

thing is that if you go to your human

7:57

GP and you tell them that your

7:59

animal has a parasite, sometimes they

8:01

won't be like, oh, you must have it too.

8:03

And they might not necessarily decide to treat

8:05

you until you yourself are quite

8:07

unwell. And I've had times where I've

8:10

gone in knowing that I've contracted something

8:12

from an animal and I've just been told to wash

8:14

my hands better, which isn't the nicest

8:16

thing to hear when you, you know, have really severe

8:18

gastro, um, and you're getting it from

8:21

an occupational hazard. But it is really,

8:23

really important to maintain good hand hygiene. And

8:25

I do advise against kissing

8:27

or rubbing your face in animals that

8:29

you don't know personally.

8:36

You're listening to the scene. I talk show

8:38

on Vision Australia Radio. I

8:40

hope you found that interview with ash interesting.

8:43

Or hopefully, uh, good to

8:45

know. Um, although maybe not the most

8:47

glamorous of topics. Uh, it's really

8:49

important that we keep our dogs in

8:51

top tip condition. And that does

8:53

include keeping them parasite free.

8:55

Now I'm going to play my

8:58

next interview, which is from the archives from

9:00

Doctor Nicola Cotton, manager of

9:02

veterinary and reproduction

9:04

at Seeing Dogs. Are we going to be talking about

9:06

the breeding program strategy? Thank

9:08

you for listening. Hi, Jenny. Thank you

9:10

for joining me on the show today.

9:12

Hi, Harriet. Thanks for having me.

9:14

So just to start off, what is your

9:16

role at Singing Dogs?

9:18

My role is a veterinary and reproduction

9:20

manager, so I oversee

9:22

the health of the dogs in all parts

9:24

of the program. And my team also includes

9:27

our bananas puppy center

9:29

attendants and our breeding team.

9:32

So we kind of do have

9:34

our own obviously breeding program

9:36

at seeing our dogs. It's not just kind of, you know,

9:38

finding dogs and then training them up. What

9:41

is the kind of process for the selection of

9:44

breeding dogs?

9:45

But the process for selecting breeding dogs

9:47

is quite involved. And it

9:50

really starts almost at the time that

9:52

we are planning a meeting. So when

9:54

we are planning a mating, we will know

9:56

from the pedigrees of those parents

9:58

and the breed of those parents, whether or not it's

10:00

a litter, that we would

10:02

have great value in

10:04

selecting breeding stock from. As an example,

10:07

we have excellent dogs in our breeding colony,

10:09

and those dogs breed other excellent dogs

10:11

when they produce puppies. But if

10:13

we keep selecting from

10:15

litters where they already have parents in the breeding

10:18

colony, then all of our dogs in the breeding colony will

10:20

start to become very closely related to one another.

10:22

So sometimes when we are breeding a litter,

10:24

we know already that to

10:27

select from that litter might mean that we actually

10:29

need to retire another dog in the breeding colony.

10:31

So in those cases, sometimes

10:33

we know that that litter is most likely

10:35

going to be excellent. Working dogs and they're destined for

10:37

the training program. We're also

10:39

looking towards selecting

10:42

more Labradors and golden retrievers

10:44

as our breeding stock. And then our

10:46

cross-bred Labradors

10:48

and crossed with golden retrievers are

10:51

the ones that tend to be very successful for

10:53

training. If we are trying

10:55

to make improvements through genetic selection,

10:58

it's much more rapid to do

11:00

this. If you're breeding with dogs that are pure Labradors

11:02

or pure golden retrievers, because of the way

11:04

that the genetic combinations work, and

11:07

what else might be valuable for us

11:10

to know when we're making selections at the time

11:12

of choosing a mating pairing is

11:15

what that pedigree is in

11:17

relation to the rest of our colony. So maintaining

11:19

genetic diversity is really important.

11:21

And so we may know if we're using,

11:24

for example, a dog from another seeing

11:26

eye dog guide dog school or assistance dog school

11:29

that as the sire for

11:31

the litter, then that is going to bring

11:33

a lot of good genetic diversity into our colony. So

11:35

we might actually then be looking particularly

11:38

at that letter to select from in

11:40

saying that, obviously we need to see

11:42

how the dogs develop through the program. So

11:45

then we also have regular meetings

11:47

with the puppy development team to get feedback

11:49

on how the puppies are progressing, and

11:51

then we keep a close eye on

11:54

the ones that are progressing particularly well

11:56

based on the temperament assessments

11:59

that the puppy development trainers do. And

12:01

then we'll also be keeping a close eye on their health, of course.

12:04

So there will be times during puppy development

12:06

where we have found that a puppy

12:08

has a health condition. That means it's not appropriate

12:10

to use that dog for breeding, so that dog

12:12

might then no longer be in contention

12:14

for selection for breeding.

12:16

And that's even things like, say, having

12:18

more than average ear infections, that

12:20

type of thing. Right. It's not just, you know, it's not

12:23

necessarily anything drastic in terms of improving

12:26

the colony.

12:26

Yeah. That's right. We know that there's a

12:28

heritable component behind things like skin

12:31

and ear problems. So if

12:33

we are seeing that a puppy is having lots of

12:35

ear or skin problems repeatedly, then

12:37

we'll often try to investigate

12:39

that through the Seeing Eye Dog Clinic so we can

12:41

make sure that we're ruling anything else out

12:44

that could be contributing.

12:46

So when you are looking,

12:49

were you and the breeding team are looking at

12:51

picking those pairings for matings, other

12:53

than what you've kind of already mentioned about the genetic diversity,

12:56

how do you pick, you know,

12:58

the best dam and sire for

13:00

each other and for the litter?

13:02

It's a great question, and there's a lot that goes into this.

13:04

And the breeding team.

13:07

We get together about every 4 to 6

13:09

months to make plans for the next six months.

13:12

What we need to look at when we have

13:14

a female and we're planning

13:16

which stud to use to

13:18

produce puppies, we need to firstly

13:20

make sure that there are no clashes on

13:23

their genetic testing. So we test for

13:25

a variety of single gene disorders.

13:27

And dogs in the breeding colony might

13:29

be carriers for those genes. The

13:31

way that the inheritance pattern works with those

13:34

is it's recessive. So both. Parents

13:36

would need to be carriers in order for any puppies

13:38

to be produced with

13:40

the condition, so we can safely

13:42

breed if one of the parents is a carrier,

13:44

but we can't breed a carrier to

13:46

a carrier, so that's the first thing we cross-check

13:49

when we are deciding which stud

13:51

and which female to meet together,

13:54

then we will have a shorter list

13:56

of studs. Once we've cross-checked the DNA,

13:59

then we will look at breed.

14:01

So we're making sure that throughout the year

14:03

we're producing a sort of

14:05

mixed supply of different

14:07

dog types, and that includes breed. So

14:09

obviously we want to make sure that there's different

14:12

breed types available

14:14

for our clients who have different preferences, different

14:16

needs. So we will look at what our

14:18

previous litters have been and make

14:20

sure that we're not producing only

14:22

six months worth of pure Labradors.

14:25

We make sure that there's a variety coming through,

14:27

so then we may rule out or rule

14:29

in certain studs due to the breed

14:31

combination that the puppies would be. Then

14:34

we will look at the pedigrees. So

14:36

we need to make sure that those two parents

14:38

are not closely related. So then we're

14:40

able to actually use, um, uh,

14:42

our database, the International Working Dog Registry,

14:45

to tell us what the coefficient of inbreeding

14:47

between those two parents is. We can make sure that

14:49

it's very, very low. And

14:52

that will give us an even shorter list of studs

14:54

to choose from. And then what we need to do is

14:56

look at how often those studs

14:58

have been used in the previous 6 to 12 months.

15:00

We want to make sure that we are not falling

15:03

into the trap of what's called the popular sire effect.

15:06

That's where you have a really popular sire.

15:08

So a stud dog that's performing really well,

15:10

producing great puppies. If you start using

15:12

that stud dog too much, that can

15:14

cause problems down the track, because then in future

15:16

years, all your letters are going to be half siblings

15:18

of one another. So then we'll look at stud

15:21

use rule in our outset, and studs, if

15:23

they've been used many times recently,

15:25

and then we'll be down to a short list of

15:27

studs. And that's when we look at the particular

15:30

traits of those parents. So health and behavior

15:32

and what we'll do is then try

15:34

to match them up so that they balance out their strengths

15:36

and, um, less strength, which

15:39

they.

15:39

All have. They all have less stress.

15:42

I know that you disagree with me with

15:44

Iris, but there is no such thing as the absolute

15:46

perfect dog. So we do

15:48

have to make sure that where the

15:50

female maybe is not as strong in a certain

15:52

aspect, we're using a stud that is performing

15:54

really well in that aspect.

15:57

And then from from there as well. So I know, I

15:59

know there's a bit of kind of, um, I

16:01

think people who haven't been involved in breeding

16:03

aren't necessarily aware of this because I get a

16:05

lot of questions about Iris, you know, also when she

16:07

can have puppies and it's kind of like,

16:10

um, we don't get to kind

16:12

of pick that. Is that is that the case?

16:14

Yes. So we are at the mercy

16:16

of Mother Nature a lot of the time in

16:19

terms of when our females will come into season.

16:21

So on average in our breeding colony,

16:23

they have eight months in between each

16:25

season, but it really varies from as low as

16:27

six up to almost over

16:30

12 months. So some dogs, not

16:32

very many, will only cycle about once

16:34

a year. And what we do is we

16:36

track when their seasons have been, and so we

16:38

can anticipate who's due to come into season

16:40

in the next couple of months. But

16:42

sometimes Mother Nature doesn't play

16:44

ball and there'll be some peaks

16:46

and troughs. That means sometimes we

16:49

have to skip some seasons

16:51

when some bitches, when they're in season, because

16:54

we just don't have the capacity, and the puppy

16:56

centre and the puppy program, and then other times

16:58

we'll have some lulls. Yeah.

16:59

So sometimes it feels like there's kind of like seven

17:02

all in once.

17:03

It does happen.

17:04

Some.

17:04

Time about it. Sometimes we say

17:07

just no one else coming to season, but I

17:09

think they hear us and then something happens.

17:12

To try and prolong their working

17:14

duties a little bit longer. So

17:17

can you please explain a bit about the overall

17:19

breeding strategy?

17:21

Yeah. So essentially in

17:23

one sentence the strategy is to improve the

17:25

success rate. But there's a lot that will go

17:27

in behind that. So

17:29

we're really targeting the health

17:31

and behavior traits or characteristics

17:34

that caused the most releases

17:36

of dogs from our program. And

17:38

that are also heritable. So

17:41

we're going to have the most success in improving

17:43

success rate if we make choices

17:45

around breeding based on conditions

17:47

that are highly heritable, um, other

17:49

conditions or other traits or characteristics

17:51

or behaviors can be influenced by

17:53

environmental factors. So the experiences

17:56

of the puppies as they grow up, the environment,

17:58

even nutrition in some cases, um,

18:00

fortunately for us, we're covered on that respect.

18:03

But we know that in things like hip

18:05

and elbow dysplasia, nutrition can have

18:07

an impact as well as heritability.

18:10

Um, we also want to know what's important for clients.

18:12

So really trying to capture as much client feedback

18:14

as possible and make sure there isn't anything

18:16

that's occurring after graduation

18:18

that's causing problems for clients that

18:21

we could actually improve through breeding.

18:23

So really seeking as much client feedback

18:25

as possible. We also include

18:27

in our strategy the goal

18:29

or target to breed only from purpose

18:31

bred dogs. So if we are

18:34

obtaining dogs from. Another

18:36

organization or if we are

18:38

obtaining genetic material, we are making sure

18:40

that that is from dogs that

18:42

have been bred over many generations to

18:44

serve a purpose, such as being a

18:46

dog guide or an assistance dog.

18:49

And then we also strategically

18:51

collaborate with a lot of other organizations. So

18:54

that really helps us in maintaining our genetic

18:56

diversity as well and improving our

18:58

stock.

18:59

It's quite interesting, especially that you said, you know,

19:01

some of the traits are more and less heritable.

19:03

And that's not just health is that that's also

19:05

even kind of behavior or sorry, not

19:07

behavior temperament that is heritable.

19:09

That's right. Yes. So heritability

19:12

is essentially the amount

19:14

of variation that you'll see across.

19:16

If you're looking at a group of dogs and you're looking

19:18

at let's pick a temperament trait of

19:21

harness sensitivity. There'll be variation

19:24

in in that group of dogs

19:26

as to how sensitive to the harness handle

19:28

they are. And that means whether or not

19:30

they drop their back or their hindquarters

19:33

down when the harness handle touches them, we don't

19:35

want them to do that. We want them to not mind

19:37

the harness handle touching them. So if we're looking

19:39

at the group of dogs and there's a lot of variation

19:41

in that group of dogs, the heritability

19:43

of harness sensitivity is what tells

19:46

us what percentage of that variation

19:48

between the individuals is caused by their genes,

19:51

and what percentage is caused by other

19:53

things. Harness sensitivity

19:55

is one of the more heritable

19:58

temperament traits, so that

20:00

means that you will be able

20:02

to adjust it,

20:04

but not as successfully as other

20:06

temperament traits by using

20:08

training methods and management

20:11

methods. So

20:13

the higher the heritability

20:15

of a trait, the more likely or the

20:17

faster you can influence it through breeding because less

20:20

of it is impacted by the

20:22

environment. So because you can train.

20:24

Them to be more comfortable, but if it's more heritable,

20:26

then it's harder to do so.

20:28

Yes, and you might be less successful. One

20:30

example I like to use is like coat color

20:32

that is wholly heritable. So

20:34

if you breed a Labrador, you cannot

20:37

train that yellow Labrador to

20:39

become a black Labrador. It doesn't matter

20:41

what amount of training you do, what environment

20:43

is exposed to what nutrition it has, it

20:45

will always have that coat color. So that is

20:48

total heritability.

20:50

I mean, some of them do try when they

20:52

go to, you know, somewhere with enough mud.

20:54

But at the end of the day, yes.

20:56

No permanent change their genetics.

20:59

So how does the strategy meet the

21:01

evolving needs of various types

21:04

of clients? Like you said, it's not kind of tight. There's

21:06

like there's types of dogs in in breed, but there's also

21:08

other kind of types of dogs.

21:10

Yeah, that's really true. So

21:12

obviously a lot of societal

21:14

change occurs every couple

21:16

of years. And over the past few

21:19

decades in particular, we've seen a lot of people

21:21

moving into like smaller apartments

21:23

and there's like higher housing density.

21:26

So we need to make sure that our dogs

21:28

are more comfortable living in smaller

21:30

housing areas and living in more,

21:33

I guess, um, high density

21:35

suburbs. So we

21:38

may need to make sure that we're

21:40

breeding dogs and training dogs

21:42

that are able to cope well

21:44

in a busy environment. Um,

21:47

so we need to sort of, I guess, forecast

21:49

trends of what's going to happen with society. And that's

21:51

a longer term view. We also

21:53

want to make sure that our dogs are really good

21:56

canine citizens. So that means that they're really responsive

21:58

to their handler. They are

22:00

going to be well-behaved and polite

22:02

in public spaces. And that's also something that

22:04

we can sort of breed towards

22:07

over time as well. Um,

22:09

we also know that over

22:12

the next, I guess, few decades,

22:14

the amount of people in Australia that

22:16

will be looking for a seeing

22:18

eye dog is going to increase. So part of our strategy

22:20

is how do we actually make sure we have enough

22:23

dogs to provide to all of our clients. So

22:25

that's less about the qualities of

22:27

the dogs necessarily, but also making sure that

22:29

we're future proofing our breeding strategy

22:31

so that we can produce more dogs in the

22:33

future.

22:34

Which, like you said, is kind of the population

22:36

syndrome would block something like that.

22:38

That type of thing. Exactly.

22:40

So how can breeding produce and maintain

22:42

a colony of dogs suited to lots of different

22:44

clients? So, you know, clients who come from

22:47

a different range of, you know, countries,

22:49

sorry, not countries can part of the country

22:51

lifestyles. And, you know, even having kind

22:54

of different personality traits and what they want in a

22:56

dog for example.

22:58

Yeah, that is a good question because every

23:00

single person is so different. Everyone has really

23:02

different preferences, needs

23:04

different lifestyle. So we just need

23:06

to make sure when we're breeding that we are breeding

23:08

a variety of dog types. And

23:10

so if we sort of looking at broader types,

23:13

you can look at size of dog as a

23:15

type. So we want to make sure that there is a variety

23:17

of size of dog, a variety also of

23:19

coat colors and variety of

23:21

breed types. But then also if

23:23

we're looking at, I guess, a kind

23:25

of generalization of a temperamental

23:29

aspect, you can have dogs at a more

23:31

higher energy, and you can have dogs that are more lower

23:33

energy. And you can imagine that

23:35

with. People's different lifestyle.

23:37

There would be some lifestyle suited to a really high

23:39

energy dog that needs to do a lot of work.

23:41

Maybe take the client to five

23:43

different meetings and five different locations

23:46

five days a week, and there will be

23:48

other clients who live a lifestyle where

23:50

the dog would be taking them to 1

23:52

or 2 locations every day, and

23:55

in between that, the dog is expected to

23:57

be a nice, polite companion in the office

23:59

or in the social activities that

24:01

the client is doing that day, sporting whatever

24:03

it may be. So we need to

24:06

make sure that we are providing like a variety

24:08

of type of dogs. And energy is

24:10

just one example of that.

24:12

So you'll probably pick a pairing that you

24:14

have. I guess you can predict

24:16

as much as possible that they're going to be,

24:18

I guess, a lower energy type

24:20

of dog and, and more kind of laid back. And then

24:22

you'll pick another different pairing where

24:25

you have the expectation that they're going to be

24:27

more energetic, more

24:29

confident and outgoing. And yes,

24:33

exactly.

24:33

Right. Exactly. I have

24:35

a personal preference out of a pet dog to have low

24:37

energy because I like to go out, go

24:39

for a walk, go for a run. But then at home, I really

24:41

like to just have a nice

24:44

napping dog so I can go

24:46

about my household chores. Um,

24:48

so I really understand that there are really,

24:51

really clear differences in preference

24:53

of dog types for pet dogs, but

24:55

that's definitely going to translate even more strongly

24:57

across to a working dog.

24:58

So yeah, that is one of the things that

25:01

I've been asked a few times in the supermarket.

25:03

I've been told, oh, why don't you use Kelpies

25:05

for seeing it? Because they're really smart. Um,

25:08

and I kind of picture a kelpie in an office

25:10

environment, having lived with one

25:13

at one point. And I'm picturing

25:15

that dog in the office environment just gives

25:17

me a little bit of a heebie jeebies. I just think that it

25:19

would be not a happy dog.

25:21

I think that the Kelpie would give you

25:23

about five minutes for each meeting, until it was

25:25

asking you to go somewhere else and do something

25:28

else to engage it. So Kelpies

25:30

versus maybe greyhounds

25:33

is a good comparison of different kind

25:35

of energy levels of different dogs. Obviously

25:37

we're only working with two breeds, but there's still

25:39

variation within that. So we just want to make sure we're

25:41

providing all different types of dog

25:43

at the end.

25:45

And there's Iris putting in her $0.02 as

25:47

per the usual, um, is

25:49

there anything else that you think would be

25:51

interesting to know that you'd like to share about the breeding

25:54

program and breeding program strategy?

25:57

I guess, uh, one of the most exciting things

25:59

that we're doing at the moment is a lot of collaboration

26:02

and cooperation with other organizations. So

26:04

at the moment, we are part of the

26:06

Oceanic Breeding Cooperative, which

26:09

is overseen by Assistance

26:11

Dogs International. And it's basically

26:13

a structured way that we can collaborate with

26:15

other organizations that breed

26:18

assistance and dog guides.

26:20

And what that means is we actually have

26:23

a communal breeding colony

26:25

that's shared between the organizations

26:27

that are part of the breeding cooperative.

26:29

And so some of the dogs in our

26:31

breeding colony are actually OBC

26:34

for short. Oceanic breeding cooperative are

26:36

actually part of the OBC breeding

26:38

colony. So while we will

26:40

be looking after them, doing

26:42

their matings, pregnancy

26:45

care, looking after them while they give

26:47

birth and the litter, some of those puppies are actually

26:49

going to go to those other organizations. And

26:51

then those dogs may then go on to become part

26:53

of that shared breeding colony. So

26:55

that's really exciting because it allows us to

26:58

access different genetic material and

27:00

also just gives us access to more dogs. So

27:02

the more dogs you have access to, the

27:04

more likely you're going to be able to have

27:06

a higher proportion of excellent dogs to pick

27:08

from for breeding.

27:09

So it kind of means that instead of having the pool

27:11

of studs that you can keep in your colony,

27:14

you have kind of access to a

27:16

larger number.

27:17

That's exactly what it means. So then

27:19

when you're trying to make those decisions,

27:21

like I mentioned earlier, every time you are

27:24

cross-checking something, you're narrowing down the list.

27:26

But imagine if you had at the end of that list, you had

27:28

30 to choose from instead of only

27:30

4 or 5. Yeah. Then you're going to be able

27:32

to really make the best decision for those mating pairings.

27:35

Well, that's um, it's really exciting. I think

27:37

the clients will probably start to really

27:39

kind of feel like, but it's a bit of a slow change

27:41

some of these things, isn't it? Because the OBC is reasonably recent

27:44

in our.

27:45

Yeah, we've been part of the OBC now

27:47

for 2 or 3 years, and

27:49

we've just had the first breeding

27:52

graduates, you could say come through. So

27:54

it is definitely a long term goal, and it's something

27:56

that will continue to build over the next few

27:59

years. And also

28:01

in the last few months, we've had the first

28:04

lot of frozen semen

28:06

from America, from the American Breeding

28:08

Cooperative was shipped over to Australia,

28:11

and we recently had a Leda that was born

28:13

and it was signed by stud that actually lives in America.

28:15

So now we're able to expand our horizons

28:17

even further by being part of the OBC.

28:21

Well, it's very exciting. So thank you for coming on

28:23

the show and talking to me about the breeding

28:25

program strategy.

28:26

Thanks for having me, Harriet.

28:35

You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog

28:37

show on Virgin Australia Radio. I

28:39

hope you enjoyed my interviews with

28:41

Doctor Ash talking about parasites,

28:43

and with Doctor Nicola

28:45

talking about our breeding strategy at

28:47

seeing eye dogs. If you'd like to find

28:49

out more about seeing eye dogs, the work we

28:51

do, or how you can help, head to our

28:53

website at SCD dot Virgin

28:56

australia.org. Don't forget

28:58

to tune in! Same time next week for

29:00

another episode of the Seeing Eye Dog show.

29:02

Or head to your preferred podcast

29:04

provider for other episodes of The Seeing

29:06

Eye Dog Show and other Great Vision Australia

29:08

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