0:01

Well, welcome to the show. I'm Dr. Corey

0:03

Allen, and as always, I'm joined by my wife

0:05

of 30 years, Pam. And

0:08

on Sexy Marriage Radio, we're having regular

0:10

conversations to help you cultivate the space

0:12

between you and your spouse, be that

0:14

the mental, emotional, physical, erotic, and spiritual

0:16

spaces. We explore the wisdom

0:18

and skills of the marriage and relationship world's

0:20

most brilliant minds through in-depth

0:23

conversations with authors, counselors, psychologists,

0:25

professors, doctors, specialists, and, of

0:27

course, Pam, members of the

0:29

nation. Each episode explores

0:31

topics every relationship faces and offers conversation

0:33

starters or actions that you can use

0:35

to propel life and marriage into more

0:38

deeper and more meaningful conversations. So

0:40

if you're new to the show and you're looking for a handy

0:42

way to tell your friends about Sexy Marriage Radio, check

0:45

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0:47

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0:49

they help new listeners get a taste of everything

0:51

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0:53

to smr.fm slash starter. And

0:56

if you got some feedback, let us know. We

0:58

want, if you want us to adjust something specific,

1:00

send us a message by calling the show at 214-702-9565 or

1:02

feedback at sexymarriageradio.com. So

1:08

Pam, coming up today, we've

1:11

got the regular version and the extended version like we

1:13

always do. And on

1:15

the regular version, we had

1:18

an opportunity from an old resource

1:20

that was actually introduced to

1:22

many, many years ago in Sexy Marriage Radio

1:25

called Our Intimate Choices. And

1:28

it's a worksheet to go through to

1:31

help have conversations about the various,

1:33

what would you say, do's and

1:35

don'ts that you're comfortable with as

1:38

it pertains to your faith,

1:40

your morals, and even just your comfort level.

1:44

And but centered around your sex life, right? Centered

1:46

on your sex life. So it's a great conversation

1:48

piece in conversation aid,

1:50

communication aid. It's where they

1:52

frame it. And so you and I went

1:54

through this and we're going to

1:56

talk about the experience. And now

1:58

the extended content today. wish deeper longer

2:01

and there are no ads you can

2:03

subscribe at smr.fm slash Academy we

2:07

just finished no nut November

2:11

I don't know that just kind of hang out there. Did

2:13

you and I finish it or is it just that it

2:17

just passed by? I don't know if

2:19

you and I participated. We weren't official

2:21

participants that I am aware of. Yeah

2:23

so the phraseology I'd say clarify the

2:26

phraseology. Well for that people are gonna

2:28

have to tune into the extended content.

2:30

But we're gonna talk about it's an

2:32

annual thing that has started years ago

2:34

and it's kind of become a bigger

2:36

popular thing online of

2:38

where you take the whole month of November and

2:40

no masturbation

2:43

to ejaculation is

2:45

basically what it was talking about. So

2:48

I'm gonna propose what if that's

2:50

actually dangerous. So

2:53

all that's coming up right after

2:55

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6:32

before we get started on the

6:34

Our Intimate Choices worksheets that

6:36

we work through, it's the

6:38

holiday season and so I'm

6:41

curious I came across this on

6:43

on the intro webs this past

6:45

week. It was

6:47

just talking about holiday etiquette as it

6:50

pertains to travel and your sex life.

6:52

Okay. Right and so one of the questions

6:54

there were several different questions that were posed

6:57

and then some experts that they used for

6:59

this article chimed in with their

7:01

thoughts and so I'm

7:03

curious what you think about this. Is

7:05

it rude to have sex in someone

7:07

else's home as an overnight guest? No.

7:15

No I'm curious why anyone

7:17

would think that would be rude. I guess

7:19

how you go about your sex life might.

7:22

Absolutely. Don't be intrusive on

7:24

someone else's sleep. Right because walls

7:26

can be thin in some homes particularly some of

7:29

the childhood homes we may have grown up in

7:31

there can be this idea. Creaky bed. Oh we

7:33

get a chance to go back to the house

7:35

I grew up in. I'm gonna just wear that

7:37

room out finally. You know that

7:39

that can be a thread. Could be. Of

7:42

some of the thoughts and there also could be if

7:44

you're bringing in a suitcase of paraphernalia that you're going

7:46

to be using and it's like oh you guys bought

7:49

a lot of bags. Yeah we did. You know. Well

7:51

who cares about the paraphernalia if it's not

7:54

being flaunted in someone's face. Fair. But

7:57

it's that I mean the main premise being be

7:59

respectful. of your surroundings.

8:01

So what did their experts say? That

8:04

was the biggest one is just like be

8:06

mindful of the etiquette. They

8:09

agree it's okay but be

8:11

mindful of your etiquette. If you're

8:13

normally a little more loud and robust

8:16

in your love-making we'll tone it

8:18

down a little bit. Wouldn't that be the same

8:20

even if everybody was coming to your house? I

8:23

mean if usually if I have nobody else in the house

8:25

other than the two of us and we're usually quite

8:29

robust in our love-making and

8:32

I've got family come into town

8:34

or I'm respectful

8:36

of other people coming into

8:38

my house. Sometimes on that thread though I think some

8:40

people would be like they're coming to my house. So

8:43

I think

8:45

I think different attitude to

8:48

have as we always say to our

8:50

kids look at your surroundings. Yes

8:52

be aware of your surroundings. Be aware

8:54

of your surroundings and what

8:57

statement do you want to make about yourself? Right yes

8:59

I think but it's an interesting conversation

9:01

because I think that you can every

9:03

single one of us needs

9:05

to have in our repertoire I

9:07

think the ability to have

9:10

experienced tender loving sex. It's

9:12

a little more intimate not as exaggerated

9:15

possibly. Yeah right but it that's

9:17

but you still have some really

9:20

good encounters with one another absolutely.

9:22

So the next question was

9:24

are more babies conceived during

9:26

the holidays? Oh

9:29

I have no idea. Actually there are.

9:31

Really? Yeah because well there's two different

9:33

factors. One holiday is typically

9:35

a universal people get a lot of time

9:37

off. Yeah so vacation time. You're together a

9:40

whole lot more. Yeah and then the second one

9:42

is it gets there's a lot more percentage

9:46

of darkness in your

9:48

days so your home more inside

9:51

and it's colder and so you're in

9:54

the northern hemisphere. Yeah well yeah that's

9:56

a fair point but they do talk

9:58

about that. June,

10:01

July, you know,

10:03

there's an element of a little bit

10:06

mini baby boom. Wait, June, July, this

10:08

will have to be September, October. Right.

10:11

Yeah. I just looked down and saw

10:13

that because they're talking about the Southern Hemisphere, actually,

10:17

because that's where the reverse is true in the

10:19

Southern Hemisphere. Okay. June,

10:21

July, that's when they have the bigger baby

10:23

boom. Of course, my math wife is going

10:25

to... Wait, that does not add up. I

10:29

are a math wiz, right? And anybody else out there who

10:31

knows how to add months counts. You were

10:33

just going to say counts. Right.

10:36

And then the last question, do

10:38

sex toys make good stocking

10:41

stuffers? That's

10:46

pretty funny because how...where

10:49

do you open your stockings, right?

10:52

Right. Who are you surrounded

10:54

with when you unleash these things?

10:56

The advice here was discretion matters on

10:58

how it's presented and what you provide.

11:00

And obviously, this doesn't necessarily just mean

11:02

for extended families. It can mean for

11:04

a spouse, right? You could get it

11:06

for a spouse. Sure. Sure.

11:09

But are we opening our stockings... I'm going to get my... You

11:11

know what? You

11:13

know. But are we opening our stockings

11:15

with our, you know, 15 and 16 year olds?

11:19

Right. But here's the one

11:21

thing that I thought was great, that if

11:23

you want to add some fun to your

11:25

bedroom repertoire, fantastic, right? That can be a

11:27

fun gift. But if your spouse has said

11:29

they have no interest in certain toys, giving

11:32

that will be ignoring

11:35

their wishes, right? There's this element of,

11:37

I'm going to do it even though

11:39

you said I'm not interested. Right. You

11:42

know? So no matter how big of a bow

11:44

you put on it, it wouldn't be a good

11:46

gift. So to go back to it,

11:48

I say, yes, it would be a good stocking

11:51

stuffer. Like it's

11:54

back to the keep in mind, where

11:57

do you open your stockings? And who

11:59

you're giving it to. Yeah, because I think

12:01

there's an element of just but it's

12:03

just these are fun conversations. I think

12:05

to recognize how You

12:08

know, what could you do with this aspect

12:10

of your marriage? That

12:12

enhances and keeps this part

12:15

of the dynamic Yeah, because I think that's

12:17

really important which then leads us to what

12:19

you and I went through which this is

12:21

the worksheet our intimate choices Yeah, it

12:24

came out in 2007

12:27

actually, okay, and so it's been

12:29

around a while. I was introduced to it early

12:31

on in the first the beginning

12:34

years of sexy marriage radio And

12:36

we've referenced it several times but you and

12:38

I have actually never worked through this Yeah,

12:41

not until now and and

12:43

I think you made a comment that someone in

12:45

the Academy someone

12:47

in the nation actually just posted this And

12:50

we'll repost the link to it on the

12:52

show notes today So kind of ironic that

12:55

that couple had just gone through it. But

12:57

um, yeah, I mean, it's

12:59

it's a really cool communication tool That

13:01

it starts out. It's really

13:03

this facilitate conversation between the spouses,

13:05

right and their very first section

13:07

is establishing

13:10

boundaries Where's each

13:12

of you you do these separately? You don't

13:14

sit there and fill it out together He's

13:17

do it separately. So you're just

13:20

working from here's where I am

13:23

And then you come together and chat about it and

13:25

it gives you some good guidelines behind

13:27

that But I love that starting out

13:30

with just establishing boundaries to figure out where's

13:32

kind of our lines in the sand But

13:35

there might be some things in here that you

13:38

never thought about or never thought about actually ever

13:40

discussing with your spouse So it

13:42

kind of put some clarity out there.

13:44

Absolutely in one of the big caveats

13:47

that I think is worth noting about the the entirety

13:49

of how they approach this is The

13:52

very beginning of it when you're talking

13:54

about boundaries It's also it incorporates your

13:57

boundaries as it pertains to your faith

13:59

in your more structure. It's

14:01

not just comfort level. But

14:06

they take into account both. Absolutely, they do. But there's a lot

14:09

of things I've come across that are designed like this, but they

14:11

don't incorporate morality as

14:13

far as a biblical framework

14:15

or a character that's based

14:18

in something spiritual. It's

14:20

more of just a, would you be comfortable

14:23

with this act or not? Which obviously I

14:25

think most of our morals comes into the

14:27

equation of how we define what

14:29

I'm going to be comfortable doing or not. But

14:31

this makes you actually look at some of the

14:33

different acts and decide, is this

14:35

okay with my moral beliefs?

14:39

Which I think comes into play real importantly

14:41

when two spouses are trying to figure out what

14:44

am I okay doing? And maybe I haven't

14:47

thought through why is it that I'm uncomfortable

14:49

with it. Maybe I haven't been able to

14:51

put to paper why that is. And

14:55

I think this kind of helps define

14:57

that and helps give clarity to your spouse too

14:59

to maybe deal with things better. Absolutely.

15:02

Right. So you're setting the boundaries

15:05

and then you're just going in and talking

15:07

about preferences, whether it be foreplay,

15:11

general things. They walk you through all

15:13

kinds of scenarios where you talk

15:16

about specifics. How

15:22

do I want certain aspects of

15:24

my body touch? Do I not?

15:26

And then

15:28

you come together and you compare the two.

15:30

And there's encouragement

15:32

in the directions of

15:36

no judging on this. You

15:38

can ask questions. That's a great point

15:42

that they have at the very beginning of their

15:44

instructions. When you have this

15:46

conversation, it's a judgment-free

15:48

zone initially. Yeah,

15:50

because you can imagine if

15:53

you're judged on something, your spouse is

15:55

going to shut down right away. And

15:57

so the conversation is going nowhere. It's

16:00

asking those questions, okay, help me understand

16:02

more about this. And, and

16:04

you can dive into that a little more. This

16:06

is the time just to figure things out, not

16:08

to say, um, this

16:12

is the end of the line for

16:14

us. I don't know. I don't know. I

16:16

wasn't sure where to go with that word. No, I get you. Um,

16:20

so it's a great tool to go from there.

16:22

Do you want to just jump into? Yeah.

16:26

A couple of things I would add to

16:28

it just because it's, it's really designed. This

16:31

is, this is my takeaway of overall of

16:33

how I would view this experience. Uh,

16:36

it's really designed to help us

16:38

learn what are the

16:40

differences as we, as we have defined

16:43

them rather than keeping them as

16:45

kind of this. Ethereal

16:48

thing out there that we can't clearly

16:50

define. We just know she's not going

16:52

to like that, but we've never specifically

16:54

said, are you okay with this

16:56

or not? Like the actual

16:59

defined act or body part

17:02

or role or word. I

17:05

mean, cause there's even a section in there. What words

17:07

are you comfortable with as it pertains

17:09

to body parts and not what's

17:12

off board, what's on board and not.

17:15

And so it's, it's really the way I, the

17:17

way this hit me, Pam was

17:20

this was a easy structure to

17:22

start just walking through as we did

17:24

this of we just, well, here's what

17:26

I put for these answers. What'd you,

17:28

in anything we were different on, we

17:30

defined it on what the difference actually

17:32

was. Yeah. Right. You answered a here.

17:34

I answered C, huh? Okay. What's

17:37

that about? Where's that come from? And then you

17:39

can clarify because obviously some of these different wordings

17:41

of things, you know, we would

17:44

light spanking. What

17:46

does that even mean? You know, your definition

17:48

of it could be different than what my definition of it

17:51

is. And

17:53

so it's getting clarity of

17:56

the differences here is what makes this

17:58

such a powerful tool. because

18:00

now I realize what we're really, what

18:05

is the real gap and what isn't it wasn't, I thought was a gap

18:07

but it really is not a gap. Yeah,

18:09

so that was the first thing that jumped out to me

18:12

was just recognizing this is a

18:14

really good way to clarify, yeah,

18:17

we're on board with this and no, we're not

18:19

really as much as I thought here. Or, I mean,

18:21

one of the big things that jumped out to me

18:23

and I'm not giving away details because

18:26

it's just between you and I, a

18:28

couple of ones that I was like, I didn't think

18:30

she'd be interested but she's saying she is, maybe

18:33

I need to test that out, see if she's bluffing. I

18:37

wasn't bluffing. I didn't do any

18:39

bluffing on this. I would believe you. But

18:42

that's some of the stuff that jumped out to me was

18:45

the importance of this being, it

18:48

helps give us a better, more

18:50

succinct language as it pertains to

18:53

this intimate act of our life

18:57

because every single human being is going

18:59

to come at this aspect of their life

19:01

with some levels of anxiety and trepidation at

19:03

times because we

19:05

have an accurate enough map to know, oh,

19:08

they want to do that, oh, they want, you know, and

19:11

it's usually based off of something that I

19:13

extrapolated from some truth. Sure,

19:16

sure, sure. Because there was some thought

19:18

way back that was shared or some

19:20

reaction that happened years and years ago.

19:22

Or truth in your mind because that's

19:24

how you read an experience before. And even back

19:27

then though, I mean, because we've got 30 years

19:29

together with this at the

19:31

time of this recording. And

19:33

so the first 10, we didn't really know, I

19:35

mean on that, I didn't really know what I

19:37

was doing. I knew how to make sex happen

19:39

and what it was about, but I didn't know

19:42

the depth and the intricacies of it. First

19:45

15 years for me on that. Fair

19:47

enough. Maybe I was being generous

19:49

with my knowledge on the 10-year

19:51

note. But it's recognizing

19:53

I would read you and

19:56

I can still have Pam 1.0 going. on

20:00

in my head as I approach

20:02

PAM 6.0 Right

20:08

and so it's realizing

20:10

this gives a clarity of man. I'm still way

20:12

behind on

20:15

some of these and that's incredibly

20:17

beneficial Because I

20:19

think a lot of people hire desires. I'll let me

20:21

speak for them I think higher desires can have a

20:23

lot of trepidation of how do I even bring these

20:25

subjects up? Well do

20:27

their clarification and but I'm

20:30

curious as lower desires Mm-hmm.

20:32

Would you think that this is something like oh now? I'm

20:34

just gonna be asked to do more Or

20:37

I think this can be something really

20:39

beneficial to help it realize now I can get

20:41

a real clear distinction of here's what I am

20:43

Comfortable with here's what I'm not no

20:46

for me. It was a it was

20:48

the latter It's oh, here's what

20:50

I'm comfortable with and and going

20:53

through this You

20:55

know we have that we've always said higher

20:57

desire low desire One's not

20:59

better than the other right, but there's still

21:01

that I'm the lower desire and

21:03

kind of feeling inferior and when

21:05

as I'm feeling this out, I'm like I'm

21:09

pretty good here. Yeah, like It's

21:12

hey, I'm I'm Into

21:15

pretty much all the same stuff you are It's

21:18

not that I again it goes

21:20

back to the there's it's not that there's no desire It's

21:22

just a lower compared to you and there's

21:25

a lot of good things on here. It gave me more

21:27

confidence I would say perfect So any other

21:29

things that kind of jumped out to you that

21:31

were like wow I kind of

21:34

that really helped me and us Like

21:37

I'm not trying to get into the specific. Hey,

21:39

don't you answer for question six? We're

21:42

not doing that because I think that's what makes it That's

21:45

where we come with sex emerged radio

21:47

and the sacredness of married sex is

21:50

a secret life between you and your spouse

21:52

a Secret language between you and your

21:54

spouse is something you only share with you and

21:56

your spouse And so there's an element

21:58

of I think elegance

22:00

with this that helps

22:02

round out the narrative

22:05

in there. So

22:09

that's the encouragement we'd have for a lot of

22:11

couples is use this as

22:13

a springboard into a

22:16

better framing of

22:18

this aspect of your marriage. But I'm

22:20

curious as you went through this

22:23

and we went through this together, because

22:25

we've got a ... This is where it's kind of

22:27

interesting. I'm not sure how this equates to members of

22:29

the nation, particularly ones that maybe just now are finding

22:31

us. So hey, welcome. Glad you found us. But

22:36

they may not ... One of the things I come

22:38

across a lot as a therapist is, I

22:40

can do this with my spouse, but we don't talk

22:42

about this. And so even just getting to that point

22:44

... I can use sex with my spouse, but I

22:46

don't talk about sex. Yeah, but we don't talk about

22:49

likes, don't likes, all of

22:51

that. Yeah. I

22:54

think that's the power of this, is it gives

22:56

a framework to test it out. But

22:59

I'm also curious from your standpoint, what

23:02

anything stood out to you of the

23:05

exercise as a whole or what's surprising to you

23:07

other than your statement of, we're a whole lot

23:10

more on the same page than maybe I even

23:12

thought. Well, I think it's funny because here we

23:14

are, we have this podcast together. And so there's

23:16

a lot of things that we talk about

23:20

anyway, but walking

23:22

through this and walking

23:26

through specifics of the act,

23:28

specifics of foreplay that you

23:30

like or don't like, specifics

23:32

of where touches that

23:35

you don't like or don't like, specifics

23:37

of what turns you on

23:39

or doesn't turn you on. It's

23:42

not that we've ever gone through and had

23:45

this checklist to get really more

23:47

clarity on

23:49

where I am, more

23:51

clarity on where you are and

23:53

to understand you more in that

23:55

regard. And

23:58

really ... In

24:01

our situation, it was more for me

24:03

a confirmation of, okay, we're really

24:05

in step in this and I really

24:07

liked that. That was a... That

24:09

is good. That was a build for me. But

24:12

I think it just brings connection with us

24:14

talking. So those are kind of the standouts

24:17

to me of it

24:19

was much easier than

24:21

I thought it was going to be as far

24:24

as not uncomfortable. Right.

24:29

I felt a connection just

24:31

by walking through and seeing

24:34

that we're getting more on the same page. And

24:36

we even started the conversation with this while heading to

24:38

go get to fill up one of the cars. So

24:41

we were just driving having this conversation

24:43

to start it. Yeah. I mean,

24:45

it doesn't have to be... So it can be a very

24:48

casual, it doesn't have to be a very intense thing. But

24:50

here's the two things that jumped out to me. One

24:53

is answering these questions now

24:55

at 52 years old versus

25:00

what answers would I have had at

25:02

32 or 22 when we first got

25:04

married, how old I was. One

25:08

of the questions being, when you touch me,

25:10

fill in the blank, I'm instantly ready for

25:12

sex. I'm like, I don't know if anything

25:14

nowadays gets me instantly ready for sex. It

25:16

takes build up. It takes build up. I

25:19

need a little more time. But

25:22

when I was 22, oh, you could have just

25:24

looked at me and it might have gone, let's

25:27

go right now. Right. Exactly.

25:30

So that was one. It's just funny to think

25:32

of... Because again, that's the old

25:34

map that I can get to where it's like,

25:36

well, hold on, that used to and now what's

25:38

wrong with me? And I start pity partying and

25:40

oh, everything's ruined. Rather than wait, hold

25:42

on a second. There's

25:44

a different thing going on here.

25:47

I'm a different person. So I need to

25:49

adjust as well. But then the other

25:51

thing that jumped out to me, and this

25:53

is just me personalizing it with you, because

25:57

I'm looking at my answers on some of...

26:00

these where on one

26:02

of the sections I actually didn't

26:04

even answer the individual lines. I

26:06

just wrote yes real big on

26:08

the outside. I like all of

26:10

these. Right. So it's like one

26:13

of my questions that I ponder from that of

26:15

just looking back at that and reflecting what we

26:17

were talking is, is that actually a

26:19

good thing for

26:21

me or not? Do I need to... To just

26:23

say yes to all? If I'm

26:25

too broad on, oh, anything, everything

26:27

goes, let's... Yeah. Does

26:29

it make anything really, really special then? It's

26:32

just, it's a thought process I'm going

26:34

through. Because I'm also wondering,

26:36

am I too easy to read? Because

26:40

if you read me all the time

26:42

as, oh, he's going to be ready

26:44

for anything anytime when no,

26:46

that's not necessarily always true. Oh,

26:50

I think you're being hard on yourself there. Well,

26:53

I get it, but... I like that you're thoughtful and

26:55

you think through those things. But that's the exercise that

26:57

I'm using from this as somebody that's been doing a

26:59

podcast on this subject for over 12 years. I

27:03

think there's still benefit to

27:05

look at what's the uniqueness,

27:07

what's the sophistication, what's the

27:10

narrowness of what do

27:12

things really, really mean versus is it

27:14

just an act in and of itself?

27:18

Because we've said this before, and I'll say it

27:20

again just for the sake of the audience and

27:22

the nation, there is

27:24

a huge difference between quantity of

27:26

sex in my mind versus quality

27:28

of sex in my mind. And

27:31

quality is usually less defined by what we

27:33

actually do. It's

27:36

who we are in the doing it.

27:38

It's the both being engaged. It's

27:40

the power play between us. It's

27:43

the spiritual realm that's a part

27:45

of it. It's the otherness

27:48

and the selfishness that's a part of it.

27:50

There's a whole lot more of

27:52

following a connection. That's what I think makes the

27:55

blessed few levels of sex because I think as

27:57

Snares would term it when you're talking

27:59

about blessed few. you, that's not about

28:01

what they do or don't do. It's who they

28:03

are as people in the doing

28:05

and don't doing. It's

28:07

the recovering well. That's the stuff

28:09

that jumps out to me is to look

28:12

at it as, okay, this is a

28:14

fantastic, let me give you a frame, but

28:16

I'm wondering, do I need to refine my

28:18

frame a little bit too? Just

28:21

to be cleaner on it because what I had

28:23

attached to it long ago may not be what

28:25

it is now. I need to do

28:27

that work to examine that so you can update

28:29

your map of

28:31

me, just like I'm trying to update my map of

28:34

you. Anything

28:36

else jump out before we head on

28:39

back and practice some of these things? All

28:42

right. Well,

28:46

it's been nice to be back in the mothership with you, Pam.

28:49

It's fabulous to be here. Fabulous.

28:52

Yeah, this has been fun. So

28:55

again, if you like what

28:57

we got going on here, we're making

28:59

a personal plea to you. Jump

29:02

out and leave comments now that we're back under Sexy

29:04

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29:06

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29:09

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29:11

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29:13

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29:15

Passionately Married, we switched over to the

29:17

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29:20

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29:22

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29:24

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29:26

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29:29

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29:34

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29:37

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29:40

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29:43

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29:46

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29:48

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29:51

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29:58

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30:00

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30:03

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30:05

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