0:04

Welcome to the show. I'm Dr.

0:07

Corrie Allen. Yeah, it's good to see you again here. That's my

0:09

wife Pam speaking, by the way. Where

0:12

if you're new to the show,

0:13

welcome to the nation. Anybody listens to the show

0:15

is a part of the nation. And

0:17

what we're trying to do is have straightforward conversations

0:20

that help enhance marriage in all

0:22

facets of it. And

0:25

so we've

0:26

had an influx of people over 2023.

0:29

I mean, I think, well, if I look,

0:31

I was been been doing some deep dive on the stats

0:35

over the years because we're 12 years in to

0:37

this show.

0:38

And there's ebbs

0:41

and flows as with natural as far

0:43

as audience where they're coming from. You

0:45

know, it seems like we have a steady

0:48

base of regular listeners. Yeah. And

0:51

then the other section of

0:53

listeners evolve.

0:56

They come and go with the hurt. They come and go. Right.

0:59

And so when life hurts,

1:01

they reach out for help. They absolutely do.

1:03

And so if you're new to the show,

1:06

just a quick heads up. I've been sending information

1:08

out via email and on the platform and

1:10

on our website as a blog

1:13

about there's a change coming and

1:16

we want to at least let everybody know. Yes, there

1:18

is. Because up until 2023, we

1:20

were sexy marriage radio. And

1:23

we made the shift to go to passionately

1:25

married

1:26

to help widen the lane, address

1:28

some other things that

1:30

we wanted to talk about as well. And

1:32

what we've noticed, this is one of the things,

1:35

the phrases I came across just this year of

1:37

when you make a decision, a lot

1:39

of times people think of it's either it's right or

1:41

wrong.

1:42

Right. I like the idea of

1:44

it's right or you're learning something. And

1:47

are we right or have we learned something? I

1:49

think we learned something. I

1:52

learned something that the edginess

1:54

of sexy marriage radio in a title,

1:56

in a title and even our

1:59

hook.

1:59

with that really

2:02

helped define us and it really

2:04

aligns with us. And

2:06

so to that end, we are switching back

2:09

to Sexy Marriage Radio. Well, SMR

2:12

just flies off my tongue a lot quicker.

2:15

Than PM. PMP. But

2:20

this will be coming in the coming weeks. I love

2:22

the Sexy Marriage Radio name. It'll take a little bit

2:24

to get all of the logistics squared away,

2:26

move to the website. We'll have

2:28

to do some behind the scenes things. But to those of you

2:30

that are listening, all you have to do is just keep

2:33

tuning in. Keep coming to you.

2:35

The only thing that will happen to you that will be noticeable

2:39

is once we make the move and I transfer

2:41

the actual feed of the podcast,

2:43

it'll repopulate your podcast

2:46

players. So you'll have stuff already

2:48

downloaded and it'll re-download. And

2:50

so that's all it's going to mean. It'll make it look like there's some new

2:53

shows, but we will

2:55

still continue to follow the same thread of every

2:57

Wednesday is a new episode where

2:59

we still believe and have believed all the way through

3:02

that the best sex is in the marriage bed, that

3:05

the best marriages are defined by those who recover

3:08

well and the healthiest people

3:11

are in good marriages. I

3:13

think that just there's wins all the way around

3:16

with this. And so what we want to do is speak to

3:18

married people so

3:20

that we all benefit and

3:22

thrive in our relationships and all

3:25

facets of our relationship. And

3:27

so just giving you a heads up that that's coming. Perfect.

3:31

But today on the show, while we're

3:33

still doing Passionately Married because we will still be doing

3:36

the show until the change happens, which I don't

3:38

have a date yet. But today coming

3:40

up on the regular version is Bill Nelson

3:43

who is a certified financial planner and

3:45

a certified financial therapist. That was a new one.

3:47

Yeah, I'd never heard of that before. I love it. I

3:50

love the idea of blending the mental health

3:52

world with the financial world

3:54

with a little more training.

3:56

I do too. I'm telling you, I sit across

3:59

from... as a CPA and people coming

4:01

in to me with their taxes, I see husbands and wives all

4:03

the time that are running businesses together.

4:06

And so many times I want to say, here's

4:08

my husband's

4:08

card.

4:11

And I try and glean what I know from you,

4:13

not to counsel them. That's

4:15

not my job at all. But just to have

4:17

empathy sitting across the table

4:19

from them and try in my mind, I'm

4:22

saying, okay, there's a deeper meaning behind this here.

4:24

And how can I

4:26

better help with them with this? And

4:29

it's so funny. So I love that there's people out there that

4:31

are

4:32

certified financial therapists.

4:34

It's pretty cool. And if you haven't, if you've been around

4:37

the podcast for a while, Pam's

4:40

charged about this episode because

4:42

this is her wheelhouse.

4:46

Wow, I have all kinds of things to say, but

4:49

I'll

4:49

tone it. Because we're talking about marriage

4:52

and money in the regular version with Bill

4:54

Nelson. And it's such

4:56

a vital component of all life and

4:59

for couples and for families and for legacies

5:02

and on and on it goes. And so his work

5:04

is really good on just helping

5:06

frame the dynamic on this particular

5:09

topic that plays out in marriage.

5:11

And

5:11

we say high desire, low desire and everything.

5:14

Clearly you can tell by my tone, I'm the high desire

5:16

on this one. If we're talking about

5:18

money or we're talking about varieties

5:21

of food, Pam's got the lead on that

5:23

guy. And on the extended content today,

5:25

which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you

5:28

can subscribe at passionatelymarried.net forward

5:30

slash academy. We're

5:32

going to go deeper, just Pam and I, and

5:34

talk about the takeaway. Because

5:37

obviously in the interview, Pam was not as part of the

5:40

conversation that I recorded with Bill. And

5:43

so she and I are going to dive

5:45

into her wheelhouse and how this struck

5:47

her. I'll add my flares. And

5:50

that's where we're heading in the extended content. So all that's coming up

5:52

right after this.

6:00

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I handle meal times? Right?

6:15

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like I, this last week, one of them I had

7:08

was the chicken with spinach and

7:11

artichoke. Oh, it was so good.

7:13

But it's simple and easy. I love

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just grabbing it and going. Well, you're still right, Pam, because

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7:47

Well, there are lots of different main issues

7:50

that we face in married life. You

7:53

know, sex, family, children.

7:56

And then we've got that nasty old topic

7:59

of money. can happen in

8:01

our marriages that a lot of people fight about. And

8:03

so Bill Nelson is joining

8:06

me as a certified financial planner and

8:08

a certified financial therapist, which is one I've never

8:10

heard of before. And so we were talking just prior to,

8:12

uh, which you're, you're

8:14

saying it just has blended the mental health field and

8:17

the money field

8:18

with a little bit of a different uniqueness, right? Yeah,

8:21

that's exactly right. You know, I think about a decade ago, a group

8:23

of financial planners got in, people in the mental health space

8:25

got together and realized that, you know, financial

8:28

planners are not really good about talking to with

8:30

people about the emotional side of money and

8:32

mental health practitioners are often not very comfortable

8:34

talking about money with people because

8:37

let's face it, very few people are comfortable

8:39

talking about money. Right. So a group

8:41

of people got together and, um, you know, created some curriculums

8:43

and things to help people in both fields

8:46

navigate those conversations in a way that, um,

8:48

And that's,

8:48

that's so vital because I

8:51

had the phrase, Bill, that, uh,

8:53

we don't fight about things. We fight about the meanings attached

8:55

to things. And if you talk about something that is

8:57

loaded with meaning, it's money.

9:00

You better believe it. That's right. So,

9:03

so since you've been doing this as your profession

9:06

for a while now, uh, what

9:08

are some of the main things you come across

9:11

that just regularly trips up couples,

9:13

you know, trips up people in marriage, uh, even,

9:16

even those that are further into it, cause it seems like

9:18

this is something, I mean, Pam and I are 30 years

9:20

in and we can still have, I mean, even just last night

9:23

we had a, Hey,

9:25

we need to talk about this aspect of how

9:27

money is leaving our home versus coming

9:29

in our home. You know, there's, there's still this, this tension

9:32

that can come about it. So what do you keep seeing? Yeah.

9:35

Um, it's a great question. So there's a few different things, right?

9:37

Oftentimes when we think about money fights and

9:39

marriage, a stereotypical one that

9:41

everybody brings up is actually what I think you just were

9:43

alluding to, which is spending versus saving.

9:46

Right. There's a growing body of research out there

9:48

that shows that we tend to attract

9:50

our financial opposites. So, I mean, you

9:53

know, so for me, first and foremost, if you are fighting

9:55

about money in that way, the first thing to know is it's

9:58

really normal, right? More people. about

10:00

saving and spending decisions then. Do you

10:02

hate about it? Right. But

10:05

the thing is, like, oftentimes, the more I

10:07

have conversations with couples about money,

10:10

the more I find that there's different types

10:12

of money fights that can blend in, right,

10:15

that come from different sources, right? Oftentimes,

10:17

one member of the couple is much more inclined to

10:19

be hands-on with the money and want to manage

10:22

everything and move the money around. And sometimes

10:24

they're really good about looping their spouse in with

10:26

what's going on, and sometimes they're not so good

10:28

about it. One of the

10:30

most common ones that I see that I think...

10:32

...is the least understood among

10:35

the conversations that I've had, has

10:37

to do with differences between billing

10:40

financial security versus

10:42

financial freedom, right? How much

10:44

risk

10:45

do you feel comfortable taking, right? If you

10:48

save $500 this month, what do

10:50

you want to do with it? Right. Oftentimes,

10:52

one person likes the feeling of security

10:55

of either paying down debt or having

10:57

the extra $500 sitting in their bank account where

10:59

it's sitting nice and safe earning

11:01

a little bit of interest. And oftentimes,

11:04

the other spouse might want

11:06

to wheel and deal with it a little bit, right? Put it into

11:08

the market, try to make it grow. And

11:10

that tension, I find,

11:13

is more and more... The more I look for those types

11:16

of differences among couples, the more common

11:18

I'm finding them to be.

11:20

Okay. And that's interesting because

11:22

I think even within those degrees,

11:26

if you will, aren't there probably variances

11:28

in those degrees even more in

11:31

the sense of... You know, because

11:33

if you wrap up or sum up Pam

11:35

and I's journey, we would fit

11:37

that category likely

11:39

of

11:40

it is meant security for her, but

11:42

it's not necessarily just immediate security.

11:44

It's also long-term because we were, you know, being

11:47

Gen Xers, we're raised in that hole. You can't

11:49

count on social security. You better make it on

11:51

your own, set up your own scenario,

11:54

self-sufficiency, whatever it might be. And

11:56

so she's had that thought process,

11:59

I think... as an arc to

12:01

the entirety of our marriage, I've

12:04

had the thought process of money

12:06

is a means to go do and get things. Actually,

12:09

reverse that, to get things and do things

12:12

because I will absolutely go

12:14

get things. I mean, I'm a shiny, shiny guy. So

12:18

it's – there's this tension

12:21

that plays out and what

12:23

we've noticed is even as we

12:25

are aligning better, there's

12:27

still an element of nuance

12:30

within those

12:31

categories we still fight that

12:34

come up. Absolutely, right, because

12:36

with all of those types of differences

12:38

that we're talking about, it's not that one person is right or wrong.

12:41

It's that you need

12:43

both of all of these things, but the question

12:45

is how in what order, what

12:47

are we focusing on right now versus what are we focusing

12:50

on later on down the road, right? Spoiler

12:52

alert, you need to be spending some money over

12:54

the course of your life and you also need to be saving some money,

12:56

right? Both people are right and

12:59

I find that oftentimes couples

13:02

will be inclined to gravitate toward one

13:04

extreme or the

13:04

other unless they have some sort of process

13:07

in place for putting

13:08

some boundaries around those things. But

13:11

yeah, it's a very common problem to have

13:13

with all of those different areas, right? From

13:15

a security standpoint, like you need

13:17

to have some money in the bank account before you

13:19

start doing a lot of investing, right? If

13:22

you're investing without some sort of financial foundation

13:25

built for your family, even

13:26

if something goes wrong,

13:28

everything's going to come from doing like a house of cards.

13:33

But at the same time, I often

13:36

am talking people into doing your

13:38

investing who have seen some bad things with the stock market

13:40

happen in the past. And the reality

13:43

is, right, if you're younger than,

13:45

let's say, 60, the biggest

13:47

financial risk from my perspective that you're

13:49

going to face in your lifetime has nothing to do with the

13:52

stock market, it's inflation, right? How

13:54

much more expensive stuff is going to be 40 years

13:56

from now? And the reality

13:58

is that without some investing... component, right? You're

14:01

not going to have a way to deal with that.

14:03

Right. Unless you unless you just continue working

14:05

and have something that's continually

14:07

growing, as far as the income

14:10

that you're making. And that's what's going

14:12

to keep it keep you above the curve. Yeah,

14:14

that's right. Okay, and so

14:17

so you alluded to this idea of having

14:19

the conversations and having some boundaries

14:21

surrounding it, because what is it that makes it so

14:24

difficult for a couple then,

14:26

when we are trying to get into meanings

14:29

that I can easily take the stance of but

14:31

my meaning is right?

14:33

Yeah, it's a really good question. And

14:35

I think without some sort of

14:38

North Star, so to speak, to guide

14:40

your financial decision making, it can

14:42

be really hard to get out of that perspective.

14:46

And so I often encourage

14:48

couples to think about money conversations like

14:50

like they're behind the wheel of a car. If

14:53

you spend too much time looking backwards

14:56

in the rearview mirror while you're driving your

14:58

car on the road ahead. That's

15:00

how problems happen, right? And oftentimes, money fights

15:02

are grounded in your what's happened in the

15:04

past and where we've come from and differences

15:07

with how we were raised and things like that. And

15:09

likewise, if you spend too much time looking inside

15:12

the car at the dashboard and the passenger seat,

15:14

right, that's also how bad things happen. What

15:16

we want to be doing is what you know, it's important to look at

15:18

the dashboard of a car, right? There's important information

15:21

there, you should be looking at it from time to

15:23

time. The rearview mirror is in the car

15:25

for a reason, right? You want to be looking backwards

15:28

periodically as you're driving. But most

15:30

of your time should be spent looking at the road ahead. Right?

15:32

Where do we want

15:34

your money to take you

15:36

down the road? Because oftentimes, when

15:38

I when I have conversations with couples, the

15:41

vision for what we want our money to do for us

15:43

in the long run,

15:44

usually is either the same or very similar.

15:47

Right.

15:47

But it's when we back

15:50

that into what the credit card

15:52

looks like today and what the bank account

15:54

balance looks like today. It's when we kind of

15:56

move from where we want our money to take us to where

15:58

we are today that

15:59

Problems can pop up

16:01

and is that and is that because a lot of times

16:04

we can get caught up in the scenario

16:06

of yeah We have the same vision, but

16:09

the culmination of that vision is 20 30 40 years away So

16:15

the five hundred dollars I want to spend

16:17

right now When

16:19

that's still way off in the distance Isn't

16:22

as consequential in my mind as

16:24

it may be theirs because no but that Exponentially

16:27

if we put that five hundred dollars to workforce right

16:29

now exponentially it becomes you know

16:32

ten thousand dollars in forty Yeah,

16:34

whatever and and it's all

16:36

those things to get so Tricky

16:39

because we get caught in

16:40

all the different aspects of your car like you're describing

16:43

and just focus on one too much Yeah,

16:45

I think it's definitely part partly that delayed

16:49

gratification in the financial planning world is a

16:53

Reality sometimes unfortunately and then that

16:55

can be can be hard to inspire

16:57

people to take immediate action today, but Oftentimes

17:02

it just has to do with Our our

17:04

money backgrounds and money values

17:07

as well, right? If I have two people

17:09

have come together and they're envisioning

17:12

Living their lives together, right?

17:15

Often times that future vision Is

17:17

is similar right? That's what brought them together

17:19

in the first place or at the very least That's what we have them

17:21

together Going forward,

17:24

but most of the time our money backgrounds are very different

17:27

And so as a result the way that we view

17:29

money Often is really different

17:31

from the way our spouse views money To

17:35

give you a kind of extreme

17:37

example of this a few years

17:39

ago I was working with a couple who and they were

17:41

good matches for each other They wanted the same things

17:43

like they had a good marriage, but the the

17:45

husband

17:47

Was grew up in a country That

17:51

experience i'm not gonna i'm not gonna name the specific

17:53

country but a country

17:55

that very famously experienced hyperinflation Right

17:58

after the cold war

17:59

when he was growing up, he was about 30

18:02

years old. And

18:05

in the present day, he was the one

18:08

managing all the bank accounts and it was

18:10

driving the life nuts because he wouldn't leave any

18:12

money in the checking account. Literally,

18:14

the paycheck would come in and he had no problem

18:17

spending a bunch of money. It wasn't that he was just saving

18:19

everything, but anything that wasn't saved immediately

18:22

went and was invested elsewhere. Bare bones

18:24

emergency fund, no cash on

18:26

hand and they were overdrafting their checking

18:28

account, not because they don't have the money, but because

18:31

like he didn't... Because they're playing a game

18:33

with it a different way because that's what he always had to do

18:35

to keep it hidden or not, you know, so it's not accessible

18:37

to mother. Exactly. And

18:40

in kind of going through the conversation with

18:42

him, what we realized was, you know, when

18:44

he was growing up, watching his parents make financial

18:47

decisions in a hyperinflationary

18:49

environment, maybe the bank

18:51

account today

18:52

was worthless a month from now. It's not

18:54

because it's just so much

18:56

more expensive and so what he internalized

18:58

from that was, I have money today, I'm going to

19:00

spend it today. Like I'm not going to be afraid to spend

19:02

a bunch of money because we don't know what stuff

19:04

is going to fit us tomorrow and anything that's not

19:06

saved needs to be invested. And

19:11

was that a right or wrong perspective? I mean, we had

19:13

some conversations about what we can expect the

19:16

US economy to be to look like and being

19:18

that extreme with the way that we're managing our money

19:20

might not be necessary in today's world. Right.

19:24

And at the very least having that conversation helped the wife understand

19:28

where he was coming from. Right.

19:30

It gives you the foundation of

19:32

the story. It's not like it's justifying

19:35

it, but it is a good reason. Exactly. And

19:37

so once we kind of got to the understanding of how

19:41

their views on money, like where they came

19:43

from and how they're manifesting today, then we

19:45

were able to kind of help them navigate those things. OK,

19:49

because again, this is just one of those

19:52

things that I just hear one of my

19:54

professors in grad school

19:57

did a little segment on this subject and

19:59

he made a comment. that one of the things he would tell his clients

20:01

to go do, I'm curious your thought of this,

20:03

Bill. Great. I'm ready. Go

20:06

home and get some cash. Get

20:09

some, not a substantial amount,

20:11

but whatever cash you may have on hand that it's actually

20:13

more than just like $5 and

20:16

fan it out like a deck of cards in your hand and have

20:18

a conversation with it.

20:20

Like actually talk to the money because

20:22

it was trying to recognize

20:25

there's more to it than just the actual

20:27

bill or the paper

20:30

or – because there's a whole lot

20:32

more involved. And I think he's pointing

20:34

at some of what you're describing is this is the

20:36

meanings and the story

20:39

that we attach to this item

20:43

as it pertains to our life because it is an inevitability.

20:45

We have to have it. It is a part of life. Every

20:49

civilization has some sort of currency of something

20:53

where we put value on it,

20:55

but what we don't realize is it's more than just

20:57

whatever the denoted value is. Yeah,

20:59

absolutely. And I'm definitely going to try that exercise,

21:01

so I'll report back on how that goes. But

21:06

if you don't want to go to the bank and take out a big want

21:08

to bill and start talking to it,

21:11

what I tell you to do instead is – I'm

21:14

totally going to do that, but I understand. I

21:17

got you. Why

21:19

is money important to you? Ask

21:21

yourself that question. And if you'd like to have

21:24

the episode and answer it and turn back in, on 98%

21:27

of the time when I ask,

21:30

okay, do

21:31

you have money important to you to get back to what we were

21:33

talking about before, one person will say

21:35

freedom and one person will say security. I'll

21:37

send in them for those words.

21:41

And those words are meaningless. I want to know more

21:43

than that. What does freedom mean

21:45

to you? If we could snap

21:47

our fingers and deliver

21:49

all the freedom you needed today, what would

21:52

that look like? How would things change? What would

21:54

you do? And go deeper and deeper and deeper like that.

21:58

And that – you'll get a lot of money. know when you

22:00

get to the point where you're ready to stop poking

22:03

and kind of going further down the rabbit hole when

22:05

you get to a kind of a pretty powerful statement that you

22:07

know, we go from money to

22:09

this bigger, deeper thing.

22:11

Right, right. Because then you're talking about this

22:13

is what you familiar with the book psychology.

22:15

Yeah, yes. Yeah, that's a

22:17

fantastic. If anybody's listening in

22:19

the nation hasn't read it, that would be

22:22

the one I recommend most as a therapist when money

22:24

comes up as part of the process. Yeah, it's a great

22:26

book. Hey, you one of the ones to start

22:28

with is there and then get with people

22:31

that live in that world more like

22:33

yourself. But

22:35

I loved his definition when

22:37

you're talking about wealth versus

22:40

rich, because even those terms have different

22:43

values. And Pam and I have adopted that

22:45

month, the mindset of wealth, meaning

22:48

we can do what's the phrase that we can do whatever

22:50

we want, as long as we want, you

22:52

know, as often as we want, or whatever it might be,

22:54

where it's because it's not like this whole, we

22:57

have to hit x number of millions of

22:59

dollars. Instead, it's like, wait, what's our lifestyle?

23:01

Because that's where it comes into so many different factors.

23:04

Yeah. Right. Because even if you think about the stuff I heard

23:06

the other day

23:07

of,

23:08

if you make over $54,000

23:10

a year worldwide, you are in the top 1%, which,

23:13

okay, that can be leveraged

23:18

in all kinds of political ways, whatever kind

23:20

of stance you want to take, whatever, you know, whatever

23:23

agenda you've got, you can use

23:25

that stat. And it doesn't factor

23:27

what's the cost of living? Yeah, situation

23:29

matters in that. Yeah. And so if you can recognize just,

23:31

I think that's what you're,

23:38

that's what you're getting at. And that's the role you play a lot

23:40

is, how do you help people navigate

23:43

through what you're really fighting about isn't what

23:45

you think you're fighting about. Money

23:48

is a

23:49

vehicle in which fights

23:51

manifest that are about something deeper, or

23:55

about something that you're missing, right? It's very

23:57

rarely just about the money. Well,

24:00

and that's the same kind of concept that with with

24:02

the 12 year 12 years we've been doing this show on the whole

24:04

concept of sex. It's the same thing. It's

24:06

you're not fighting about the act of sex

24:08

as often as you might think you are you're

24:11

fighting about something a lot greener.

24:14

Okay, so are there some things? I'm

24:17

just curious. This is one of the stuff

24:19

that Pam comes across. So there's some things you get out

24:21

there in the social media world that are

24:23

just myths, you know, the the tick tock tax

24:26

advice is what Pam calls it. So

24:29

what's the tick tock financial planning

24:32

advice you get clients come in and say, Hey,

24:34

Bill, we want to do this. And you're like, what are you talking?

24:37

I have I'm very fortunate to have trained

24:39

my clients to stay off tech talk

24:41

for financial advice, which is working very well.

24:44

Okay.

24:44

I there are a few things

24:47

though, that have come up in recent

24:49

years. The life insurance

24:51

space in particular is filled

24:54

with all sorts of gimmicky ways that people

24:56

position life insurance products

24:58

in a way that makes them sound like things that

25:01

they're not which are life insurance products,

25:04

right? The goal of life insurance

25:06

is to not use it.

25:08

Right? The life insurance is something that you want

25:10

to have and many people need to have, but

25:13

you don't want to use. And

25:15

so if you find yourself being

25:18

pitched or having or talking about life

25:20

insurance in a way that it's going to do

25:22

all these magical things and generate tax free income

25:25

for you. And I mean, odds are you're paying 10

25:27

to 20 times more for life insurance than you actually

25:29

need to. And you are treating to

25:32

use something that should not be used

25:34

unless

25:35

there is a emergency. Well,

25:39

yeah, it

25:41

is so interesting because you have to realize, you know, this

25:43

in this one of those things where

25:45

everybody's got an agenda, and

25:47

some of them aren't helpful and clean

25:50

and good. 100%. The financial

25:52

planning world has a very well earned

25:54

reputation for being

25:57

kind of in the same ballpark as Congress and used car

25:59

sales.

27:55

that

28:00

we talk about making investing

28:02

decisions, right? We're not looking at what has

28:04

a good long-term potential, what maybe hasn't done so lately.

28:07

We're looking at what the hot thing is today.

28:09

And the reality is, by the time you get in the hot thing that

28:12

we're dealing with today, sometimes,

28:14

not always, but sometimes it's too late. Right. But you

28:16

probably missed it at that point. Yeah.

28:19

That's right. Right. Because yeah, the people that

28:21

caught it early on, fantastic for them.

28:23

But man, that's the same

28:26

thing with the people that caught Amazon early on

28:28

or Tesla early on, you know, whatever it might

28:30

have been, it's like, yeah, I don't see it. But

28:32

some people did and they got a payoff

28:34

for that. Yeah. 100%. Right. There is a

28:36

difference between taking

28:39

investing risk and speculating.

28:42

And right. That's a good distinction. That's a

28:44

good distinction. And there is nothing wrong with doing a

28:46

little speculating as long as you're

28:48

in a position to do so and you

28:51

understand that it's speculating. And

28:53

it's also one of those like you're describing, it

28:56

has a bigger meaning involved rather

28:58

than it's the get rich quick that

29:01

we all can fall victim to so easily

29:03

that this will satisfy all my ills. Right.

29:06

That if I can just attain this, that'll

29:08

say. And sometimes, right, particularly

29:11

for people who are really inclined to

29:13

want to be hands on and try

29:15

to make some moves to make their money

29:17

grow. Right. Sometimes, I think if we create

29:19

a little sandbox and we put $1,000,

29:21

$5,000 in it and say, okay, we don't deal on

29:25

this account as much as you want, if

29:27

it goes to zero, like if you completely

29:29

mess up the strategy here, it's

29:32

not going to make

29:34

or break us. Right. Oftentimes, I find like if we

29:36

kind of set that system up, then

29:38

that person is much more likely to want to lean in and

29:41

make the rest of their money work

29:43

toward those deep.

29:44

Oh, absolutely. I mean, we have friends that do the same

29:46

kind of thing with casinos. Right.

29:50

That's one of the, it's an evening of entertainment

29:52

is the way they look at it. And they have a set

29:54

amount that they're willing to risk. And once

29:56

that's gone, it's gone. And if they make more

29:58

than that, they pay them. You know, they pull

30:01

out what they put in and then

30:02

they're just playing with house money. And

30:04

it becomes enjoyable entertainment. Yeah.

30:06

And on the flip side, I do a lot of work with couples

30:08

who are trying to figure out whether they should combine

30:11

money, how much they should combine, things like that. And

30:14

I had a case where a woman that I was meeting

30:16

with had a married, had a best

30:18

friend whose marriage failed. The wife, the husband's

30:21

drained the accounts and left with everything. And

30:23

she said, look, I, I'm

30:25

not comfortable combining everything.

30:28

Right. I am willing to combine most

30:30

things, but I need to have my $20,000

30:33

separate savings account just in case. And

30:35

if I have that,

30:36

I'm willing to lean in and

30:38

combine everything else. And we

30:41

said, OK, great. Like that. That is what you need to

30:43

be able to use

30:45

the rest of your resources to work toward your family's

30:47

goals in the context of their situation. That was

30:50

a reasonable amount to set aside.

30:52

And so we did it. And the end result was really

30:54

good.

30:56

Yeah. And because that's talking about the deeper meaning, that's

30:58

talking about what is it that helps me still

31:01

hold on to the value I have ascribed

31:04

to this particular aspect

31:06

of my life. And

31:08

then I can have some more freedom or comfort

31:11

or whatever. And the other areas

31:13

where it's not in line completely

31:15

with what I like, but I'm OK.

31:20

Well, man, thank you so much for walking

31:23

alongside couples with this bill. So how can people find you when

31:25

they want if they want a little bit more information? Absolutely.

31:27

So I'm not on TikTok as of today. Anyway,

31:31

I am on Instagram. My company is Pacesetter

31:33

Planning. So it's at Pacesetter Planning on

31:36

Instagram, Pacesetterplanning.com there as well. I

31:39

published a book last year called

31:41

Marriage Centered Money. You can get on the same financial page

31:43

and achieve your life goals together, which

31:46

is the marriage centered money because

31:48

it's the exact opposite of money centered marriage

31:51

is the way I like to think about it. And you

31:53

can get that at MarriageCenteredMoney.com as well.

31:56

Perfect. Well, man, thank you so much

31:58

for.

31:59

Just,

32:01

I mean, we need people in the world that walk

32:03

alongside people with these hot button

32:06

trigger laden issues

32:09

and money is definitely one of them. Yes,

32:11

it is. And thank you for talking about all the

32:13

stuff that you talk about on here as well. I,

32:15

um, I can't, when I was writing my book, I came across a

32:17

study and it, um, it was from,

32:20

I think somewhere in London that, um, they, they,

32:23

um, survey the 15,000 people

32:25

and, and ask them to like questions

32:27

on the street about their details about

32:29

their sex life and details about their salary.

32:32

And they found that,

32:33

um, people were seven times more likely to

32:36

answer the questions about their sex life than their salary,

32:38

which was

32:39

mind blowing to me.

32:41

But

32:44

there's, there's something about those two topics. We just, we haven't

32:46

gotten comfortable talking about

32:48

it in a productively I signed. And so, yeah,

32:50

it is one of those things that's kind of, uh, historically

32:53

been at one of those secret things. It's this, it's

32:55

this under underground aspect

32:58

of life that I can't bring it to

33:00

the surface, but it's almost like when you

33:02

do, there's a different level of freedom that

33:04

comes along. A hundred percent completely

33:06

agree. I mean, so, so much about the way we talk about,

33:08

uh, money and marriage is in the

33:10

negative, right? Money is one of the leading causes of

33:12

arguments and things. But my, my whole premise of

33:14

the work that I do is that. Doesn't have to

33:17

be that way. Right. If we flip it around

33:19

and we, we learn how to manage money effectively

33:21

together, how to talk about money effectively together

33:23

to actually make your marriage stronger.

33:26

Yeah. Cause it's, it's hopefully not going anywhere.

33:28

That's right. So other than

33:31

up on the long run, right? That's right. That's right.

33:34

Well, Bill, thanks so much, man. And all the best

33:37

on the work. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

33:39

I was thinking through, um, the history

33:41

of the show and trying to, I don't, we've touched

33:43

on the topic of money, but we've never done

33:46

an in-depth, let's

33:48

specifically talk about money. If

33:51

I'm remembering correctly, I think

33:53

it's been alluded to just because you're not talking

33:56

about the major stressors that marriages face money,

33:59

sex, children. and loss. There's your

34:01

four that are the primaries.

34:04

And those are in all kinds of different orders

34:06

depending on your stage of life. The

34:09

hierarchy shifts and adjusts depending

34:11

on where your things are. But what

34:13

stands out to me from this whole conversation with Bill

34:15

and then from ours with the extended content is it's

34:18

not the thing, it's the meaning attached to the

34:20

thing. And the more we can start

34:22

to recognize that, and I'm speaking for myself

34:24

too, on the stuff that's frustrating in my life right

34:27

now, when I can realize, okay,

34:29

what's the meaning I'm attaching to these things? What's

34:32

the impact of it? That's

34:34

where I need to work. The transcripts are available

34:36

on each of those pages at PassionallyMarried.net.

34:40

You can also find all our advertisers deals and discount

34:42

codes at PassionallyMarried.net. So please

34:44

consider supporting those who help support the show. If

34:47

we left something undone, we want you to let

34:49

us know, 214-702-9565 or feedback at PassionallyMarried.net.

34:54

Again, soon to be feedback at SexyMarriedRadio.com

34:57

again. So however you've taken

34:59

a little bit of time out to spend with us,

35:02

thanks.

35:03

We'll see you next time.