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Hi.

0:43

I'm Sandra Champlain. For over

0:45

twenty five years, I've been on a journey

0:48

to prove the existence of life after

0:51

death. On each episode,

0:53

we'll discuss the reasons we now

0:55

know that our loved ones have survived

0:57

physical debt, and so we

1:01

welcome to Shades of the Afterlife.

1:03

I'm very excited today. I'm

1:05

excited to share our guest. I'm

1:08

excited that there's a new way to

1:10

communicate with our loved ones. Today

1:14

you'll meet doctor Matthew McKay,

1:17

who's a psychology professor in

1:19

Berkeley, California, who never

1:22

would have believed in the world of the afterlife

1:24

and communication had his own

1:27

adult son not been taken

1:29

from him. Doctor McKay has

1:32

authored or co authored more

1:34

than twenty five psychology,

1:36

self help and therapist texts

1:39

and books specializing

1:41

in anxiety and depression.

1:44

And in this episode today you'll

1:46

hear his story and what he

1:48

does to connect with his son

1:51

Jordan. Here's doctor Matthew McKay.

1:54

I'm glad to be with you, Sander. So it's

1:57

more than fifteen years now since Jordan.

2:00

He was on his way home from work

2:02

on his bicycle and men

2:04

attacked him, probably to try to steal a bike.

2:07

Eventually, after a tremendous

2:09

physical battle, they shot him

2:12

and he died on

2:14

the street. As anyone

2:17

can imagine, that's the worst thing that happened,

2:20

is losing your child at

2:23

that moment or very shortly afterwards.

2:25

I think that the two things that mattered

2:28

most to me, And I think this may

2:30

be true for a lot of appearance or

2:32

anyone who loses a loved one. Does

2:35

that soul still exist? And

2:37

are they okay? Are they

2:39

in a place where they feel

2:41

good? And I was just consumed

2:44

with that question, and

2:46

so I did start looking for Jordan

2:49

started seeking him in different ways, and we

2:51

went to mediums and got

2:54

some sense of something he was

2:56

saying through them. And

2:58

yet while there was some sense

3:01

of him, some reassurance he

3:03

might still exist, it wasn't anything

3:05

that really warmed our

3:08

hearts, and so we began looking in

3:10

other ways. We sought out

3:13

Alan Botkin, who discovered

3:15

accidentally something he calls and do s

3:17

death after death Communication. Went to Chicago.

3:20

It's a technique that comes from EMDR.

3:23

I moved into sensitization through processing,

3:25

which is something that we used to help treat

3:28

trauma. I've used it with hundreds of clients

3:31

over the years, but in this case, we were going

3:33

to see him and he was going to use his variation

3:36

of that with us. During that experience,

3:39

I had my first direct contact with Jordan.

3:41

I could hear his voice very clearly,

3:44

and it was not inside my head. It was a

3:46

voice that was coming from outside of me. It

3:49

was his voice, and he was telling me the very

3:51

things that I needed to know that he still

3:54

existed. In fact, he's watching over us,

3:56

he was observing our lives. He was connected

3:59

to us, and he was good and

4:01

he was happy where he was. So this was a

4:04

first major step for

4:06

me for us, my wife and I to

4:09

begin to connect to him again

4:12

and to re establish the relationship

4:14

through the curtain to the other side.

4:17

So that was important. Also

4:20

before this, I had read a lot

4:22

of Michael Newton's work on the

4:24

jury of souls and so forth, and I had learned

4:27

because I'm psychotherapist and I'm

4:29

a good hypnotist, I'd learned his

4:31

particular method of regressing

4:34

people to their past lives and then from

4:36

there bouncing into the life between lives and

4:38

having them observe the life between

4:40

lives. And I had done that with

4:43

quite a few people. I didn't charge him,

4:45

but I did it. If anybody wanted

4:47

it and needed I would do it, and I got

4:49

to observe their experience. But I never got to have

4:51

it. And so somewhere

4:53

along this point in time, I

4:56

got involved with Ralph Messner, who was the

4:58

late Ralph Messer was a specialist in the

5:00

afterlife and after deathcommunication.

5:04

He did that same process. He induced me into

5:06

a past life and then the life between lines that I

5:08

could make contact with Jordan in that way.

5:11

And it's confirming that souls reincarnate

5:13

together and often

5:15

in very different relationships to each other in

5:18

each particular life, they often have

5:20

very different ways of connecting. The

5:23

problem still was that it was all one way.

5:25

I was. With Alan Bodkin's process,

5:27

I was just hearing Jordan passively. With

5:30

mediums, I was hearing their representation

5:32

of what Jordan was saying. Even

5:35

in this hypnotic process. With

5:37

Ralph, it was a passive process. I

5:40

was experiencing things, but I was not able to

5:42

participate in the communication. So finally Ralph

5:45

taught me how to do channel

5:47

communication. And it

5:49

didn't take him very long, as it was actually a fairly

5:51

simple process, and I tell your audience how

5:53

to do it if they would be interested.

5:55

But in less than an hour he taught

5:58

me how to do it, proudly, much less an

6:00

hour. I went home that night, and I had my

6:02

first experience of conversation

6:05

with Jordan, a conversation in

6:07

which I could ask questions, he could answer

6:09

them, I could respond, he could

6:12

respond to whatever I was saying, and

6:14

it felt like we had gone back to those

6:16

beautiful days around

6:19

the kitchen table where we could talk about anything

6:21

and had these long, beautiful and

6:23

endless conversations. And

6:26

I had my first experience

6:28

of being able to have that again

6:31

and greatly shifted

6:34

the grief, the grief of having lost

6:36

him to I've lost his

6:38

physical presence, but the

6:40

relationship and the love is still

6:43

completely there, completely intact,

6:45

completely alive. So that was

6:47

an enormous transformation for

6:49

me. And I still have Jordan

6:52

in my life, and to have that

6:54

has made all the difference in terms of facing this

6:56

loss, but also in terms of

6:58

learning. I learn so much from him,

7:01

and that's made a big difference. I have a

7:03

completely different understanding and cosmology

7:05

how the universe works as

7:08

a result of his communications.

7:10

Before we end our chat today,

7:12

we'd love to know those steps, but I'd like

7:14

to find a little bit more about some of the things

7:17

that Jordan talked to you about. And in

7:19

the beginning, A father knows

7:21

his love. I know my dad's love.

7:23

No one can convince me that some of

7:25

the things I've experienced were just my imagination.

7:29

You feel his presence as

7:31

you write.

7:34

Question, I feel his love, if

7:36

I could put it that way, I can feel his love

7:39

inside of me, feeling his

7:41

presence like he's sitting in the room. I don't

7:43

actually have that experience. I can feel him

7:45

in my body and I can feel the love in my

7:48

body. But how he manifests

7:50

himself is the things he says

7:52

that are occurring inside my mind

7:55

but are definitely channeled, because there are things

7:57

that I never dreamed of, have thought of imagined,

8:00

and they're said in his way of communicating,

8:02

not in mind. So what

8:04

I get from him is

8:06

is communication. But I do

8:08

feel him physically.

8:10

That's I guess the answer I was looking for in

8:13

that love. No one can take that away.

8:15

What kind of things did he talk about?

8:17

Did he tell you about the spirit world, what

8:19

he's doing, what life's

8:21

about?

8:22

That? Yeah, over time they shared

8:25

all of that with me, and he's decided that he's

8:27

going to write certain books, and he

8:29

set out to write a book, Lewini's Landscape

8:31

in the Afterlife, which is really helping

8:34

people with a fear of death and telling

8:36

them exactly what is out

8:38

there, what to expect, what that afterlife

8:41

looks like and feels, and also why we leave

8:43

it to come here. So he outlined

8:45

the book in about five minutes and

8:47

then over time, basically I channeled

8:50

all of his It's all from him. So

8:53

what does he say the afterlife is

8:55

their components to it. The

8:57

first thing that happens after we die. We

9:00

end up in he calls the landing place,

9:03

and it's just adjacent to the spirit world.

9:05

And in the landing Place, the main function

9:07

of that spot is to get

9:10

used to having a non physical experience.

9:12

We see it three hundred and sixty degrees, not

9:14

just straight ahead. We are

9:16

hearing things telepathically. We

9:18

move by intention, but not by muscle

9:21

motions. And this landing

9:23

place is often familiar in some

9:25

ways. It's a setting that we

9:27

might have known in our lives, but

9:30

it also has a surreal quality of heightened

9:33

colors and so forth, very very beautiful.

9:36

And it's there we meet guides and

9:38

some of the important souls, perhaps

9:40

from our soul group, who come to greet as in

9:43

that's place. We're getting used to this not

9:46

being physical anymore. But it's also

9:48

a place where guides evaluate

9:51

our readiness to enter the spirit world.

9:53

If we have a lot of intense residual

9:55

emotions from the unfinished

9:58

issues in our life that are really

10:01

strong and overwhelming, a lot

10:03

of fear or a lot of anger, we'll

10:06

go to ancillary

10:08

places where Bardo's

10:11

where we work on that before we can enter

10:13

the spiritual You can't ender the spirit world

10:15

with intense negative emotions,

10:17

and so there's sometimes a pausing that goes

10:19

on and certain healing processes

10:22

that have to happen before the

10:24

soul is ready to fully enter

10:26

the afterlife. The sort of sorting

10:29

out is done in this anti room landing

10:32

place. And so once we enter

10:34

the spirit world, the very first

10:36

stop is where we do

10:39

life review as many people have talked

10:41

about that. Jordan describes

10:43

it, and I've had a little bit of the experience

10:46

also when I've done the life between

10:48

life regressions. It's

10:50

a very powerful experience. And

10:53

in that experience we experience everything

10:55

we've done, every choice we've made from

10:57

our own perspective, but also for from

11:00

the perspective of the person who was affected

11:02

by that choice or that behavior. So we're experiencing

11:04

it both ways. And on top

11:07

of that, not only do we experience it as

11:09

that person experienced it at the moment, but

11:11

over time how it impacted them in

11:14

terms of moving forward in

11:16

their life, how what we did

11:18

impacted and affected them. And we're

11:20

going through every single significant

11:24

choice that we made in our

11:26

lives and observing its effect

11:28

on ourselves on others over time

11:31

longitudiny. So it's a very

11:33

powerful process. It takes a

11:35

while. We're supported by guides,

11:38

and we do a tremendous

11:40

amount of learning in this process.

11:42

It's just it's huge. It's a monumental

11:45

re experiencing of life from

11:47

all perspectives. Then

11:50

there are other steps that we can see in

11:52

the afterlife. But fairly soon we

11:54

reunite with our soul group. And as

11:56

I think many people are aware of, the soul group

11:59

is based our family. It's our spiritual

12:01

family, and there's any work between

12:04

oh I don't know, six and twenty

12:06

or so souls in each group. And

12:08

then there are a lot of adjacent soul groups

12:11

that connect to our own. We're

12:13

not only involved our own soul group. You

12:15

could think of it like a neighborhood. The soul group

12:17

lives in one house and a little family

12:20

together, and then there are houses that are next

12:22

door and across the street and down the street, and

12:24

these are all adjacent soul groups with

12:27

whom we often have very significant

12:29

and powerful connections of

12:31

love and with whom we

12:33

reincarnate. Typically, we

12:36

often reincarnate with our

12:38

own soul group at the same time, the same

12:40

place, in various relationships.

12:43

This is a good time to take our first break,

12:45

and then we'll be back with doctor Matthew

12:48

McKay. He talks about some interesting

12:50

things and he explains reincarnation

12:53

in a way I've never heard before.

12:55

So we'll be back.

12:56

You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife

12:59

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13:01

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Network.

14:09

Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife.

14:11

I'm Sandra Champlain, and this

14:14

episode is dedicated to Professor

14:17

Matthew McKay and the way

14:19

he learned to communicate with his son

14:22

Jordan. Some of the concepts

14:24

that he brings up are new to

14:27

me. And whether it's

14:29

this episode or any episode

14:31

of mine, or anybody that talks

14:34

about the afterlife, use what

14:36

fits to empower you in your life.

14:39

If you can imagine going into a clothing

14:41

store and maybe you're looking for

14:43

a coat, you try on different coats,

14:46

Maybe none of them fit, maybe a couple

14:48

of them fit, those that fit, those

14:51

that make you feel great, take them for

14:53

your life. That's the same with different

14:55

concepts around the afterlife. For

14:57

all the billions of people who have ever lived,

15:00

and the billions of ways that we've

15:02

lived our life, I have a sneaky

15:04

suspicion that there's not just

15:07

one exact way that we

15:09

experience our transitions depends

15:11

on our beliefs and so forth.

15:14

So now we'll get back to doctor McKay

15:17

and he's talking about soul groups

15:19

and reincarnating as soul groups.

15:22

We often reincarnate with

15:24

our own soul group at the same time the

15:26

same place, in various relationships.

15:29

Others from adjacent groups will

15:32

be part of our incarnational

15:34

existence. So we return to our

15:36

family and to our neighborhood essentially,

15:39

And in the soul group, initially there's

15:41

just a big celebration and in the afterlife

15:44

there's a lot of fun. I

15:46

just want to mention that that there's music,

15:48

there's games, there's partying

15:51

literally partying where people get together

15:54

and just enjoyed the love of each

15:56

other and catch up

15:58

and communicate. There's a little lot

16:00

of things that we do in the afterlife that are really

16:02

pleasurable and recreational. And

16:05

we do that in our soul group as well as a

16:07

particularly soul group that Jordan is and

16:09

they call it the Farm because in the afterlife

16:12

you can create images, and

16:14

so whatever you actually think

16:16

or imagine, you can create that

16:19

image in such a way that it has a kind of a

16:21

certain reality. And so that particular

16:23

soul group has created a house that

16:25

looks like a farmhouse, and

16:27

for that reason they call their little

16:29

group the Farm. And of course there's a celebration, there's

16:32

an re engagement. Now, I

16:34

just wanted to say something that might

16:37

be of interest. Part of

16:39

our soul energy always stays in the

16:41

afterlife. It always stays, so we

16:43

are always present in our soul group. We

16:46

are always present in the afterlife

16:48

even though we incarnate, and

16:50

so when we incarnate, part of

16:52

our soul energy enters a body,

16:55

but part of our soul energy always

16:58

remains in the afterlife. So we reunite

17:00

with the part of our energy that has always

17:03

been there. It's more full and vibrant

17:05

energy because now all of our energy is

17:07

in one place. But it

17:09

is also an opportunity now

17:12

to do more learning. So a lot of what we do and

17:14

should have fun is

17:17

we engage in a lot of learning. There are

17:19

guys who are specialty teachers

17:22

that come in to our Soul group and

17:24

offer lessons about all

17:26

manner things, but we also

17:29

engage in learning in other ways. One of the

17:31

big things that we do is we visit the

17:34

Akashak Record as part

17:36

of our learning process in

17:38

the afterlife. And the Akashak Record

17:41

is, I'm sure many know you can

17:43

think of it as a gigantic library

17:45

and in its contained everything that's

17:48

ever happened. It's everything

17:50

that's ever happened, particularly everything that's ever

17:52

happened to any conscious entity

17:55

conscious of soul, and a lot of the

17:57

Akashak Record also involves

18:00

incarnations and what each soul did

18:02

in the incarnation on many, many

18:04

countless planets, because we incarnate on

18:06

many many different planets, Earth being one of the more

18:08

difficult ones. So we

18:11

do a lot of studying of that, and

18:13

part of that is studying the life we lived,

18:15

but also the life that we might have lived. So we can

18:18

actually in the caution record, we can look at what

18:20

if I decided something else, and then

18:22

a chapter opens and we

18:25

can now see the outcome of

18:27

what that would have looked like had we made that

18:29

other choice, And there's a lot of learning

18:32

that comes from that, and we can do the same thing

18:34

with other souls. We can go back and take

18:36

a look at Abraham Lincoln and see, okay, what would have

18:38

happened if he didn't sign the Emancipation

18:40

Proclamation. What would have been the outcome we're going to

18:42

see, We could study that. So

18:45

we're studying outcomes, we're studying what happens

18:48

when you do X and Y and z, and

18:51

there's just so much learning there. So it's not

18:53

just what I did, but what I might have

18:55

done, or choices that were

18:57

potential but never made. So

19:00

it's a beautiful opportunity and when we certainly

19:03

close up the record, that chapter

19:05

becomes null. It's not like a parallel

19:07

universe. It's just a

19:09

possible universe that exists

19:12

just as long as we were observing it and

19:14

learning from it, and then close it, it

19:16

goes back into kind of avoid state.

19:18

I wanted to ask, because Jordan never said,

19:21

Dad, I know you're going through pain. This

19:23

is the point of being there on earth.

19:26

I think that's the greatest gift

19:28

he's given me, is

19:31

a sense of our purpose here.

19:34

Why do we come to this place that's so painful,

19:37

where we go through such struggle. And

19:40

I think a lot of people feel like pain is a

19:42

bad thing. It's like a sign of failure.

19:44

It's like something we've done wrong. We

19:46

shouldn't have pain. But in fact, we

19:49

come to a physical world under

19:51

a body that has a nervous system,

19:54

so that we can actually encounter

19:56

pain. And so why

19:59

would we do that? What is the point

20:01

of pain? What

20:03

Jordan says is that we

20:05

incarnate in order to learn how to love

20:07

in the face of pain. That's the main task

20:11

we have here. We are learning how

20:13

to love. See, in the spirit world, love

20:15

exists without qualification. We

20:17

just exist in the state of love. Love

20:20

is essentially the air that we

20:22

breathe in the spirit world, and it's what connects

20:24

all of us. But we incarnate

20:27

to learn how to love intentionally,

20:30

meaning how to love

20:32

in the face of obstacles

20:36

and push back from the world we live

20:38

in. Maybe a silly example would

20:40

be the parent who comes home is exhausted

20:43

and is worn out and their

20:45

kid is upset by something

20:47

and it needs some help with their homework and so forth.

20:50

We have to love in the face of the pain of

20:52

the tiredness. Maybe we had a bad

20:54

day of work, we're feeling anxious in the face

20:57

of the anxiety. Maybe we're

20:59

upset with our kid because they've been misbehaving,

21:02

and so we have to love in the face of that anger

21:04

or irritation. So that's what love is about.

21:06

That's what we're learning here, how to love in the face

21:08

of these obstacles, in the face of the pain,

21:11

and the pain is teaching us how to love.

21:14

It's teaching us how to love. In

21:16

the spirit world, there is no pain, and

21:19

love is effortless. But we

21:21

have to learn how to love intentionally, and that's what

21:23

we come here to do. And the last

21:26

thing I'll say It's just another comment here

21:28

is that everything we're learning we come here to learn,

21:31

and everything we're learning we're uploading

21:34

to all. So not only are

21:36

we learning it as individual souls,

21:38

but our mission here is to

21:40

keep teaching all, is to

21:42

give all everything that we've learned and

21:45

it uploaded. And so the mission

21:47

of learning to love in the face of pain

21:50

and everything else that we learn about in this existence

21:53

is given to all, and all

21:55

continues to grow and develop and evolve.

21:57

Now, some people think that God is perfect and

22:00

it doesn't evolve and doesn't grow. That's not at all

22:02

true for you, to Dan, God is evolving

22:05

God, all of consciousness is evolving,

22:08

growing and continually learning.

22:10

And the means by which most of God's

22:12

learning occurs is us

22:16

incarnating in physical worlds, and all

22:18

the things we learn become part

22:20

of the knowledge of God.

22:22

I want to ask you about God. A lot of people

22:24

I've interviewed have had near death experiences

22:26

and they've seen whoever the person

22:29

is from their own religion. Some people just feel

22:31

this incredible light

22:34

and it's this unconditional love.

22:37

Can you talk a little bit more through Jordan

22:39

about this unconditional

22:42

love, this light, this God it's

22:44

the best word.

22:45

Yeah, the best way I

22:47

can describe it is that all for

22:50

use the word all actually because God

22:52

is a kind of limited word. So like we have this picture

22:55

of some little guy in a white beard sitting

22:57

in a big golden crusted chair

23:00

something, and that's not what it is.

23:02

All is all of us. We are all

23:04

God. Every single conscious

23:07

entity is part of all

23:10

and is part of God. And that's why when

23:12

we learn something, God learns something, that's

23:14

because we are part of it. And

23:17

so when you talk about, you know,

23:19

feeling the love of God and

23:21

feeling the love and connection to God, what

23:24

we're talking about is oneness. We're talking

23:26

about feeling the love

23:28

of all because we're all connected

23:30

with love. That's what holds God together, That's what holds

23:32

all consciousness together. And in fact, everything,

23:34

the conscience creates, all the world's all

23:37

the physical, everything is held together

23:39

with the gravity of love. So

23:41

when we're feeling the love of God, we're feeling

23:44

that oneness, that deep

23:46

connection to all, and

23:49

the love that holds it all together, holds

23:51

all of us together and unites us

23:54

and connects us as one. So

23:56

it's a little different than in my understanding

24:00

Jordan's a little different from God

24:02

is an entity personality that

24:05

showers love out. But

24:07

Jordan's understanding. What he's taught me is

24:10

that we are all God, and the

24:12

love we experience is the love of connectedness

24:15

to all and everything that exists,

24:18

and that love is

24:20

something shared as opposed to showered

24:22

on us. If that makes sense. It's

24:24

something that we all share and

24:27

experience together, as opposed

24:29

to an entity showers us with love.

24:32

Thank you for that. I want to read just

24:34

a few sentences that I read in your book

24:37

because it deals with doubt. You're

24:40

led, I'm exhausted. I blow out the candle.

24:42

I want to believe everything I've heard, but I

24:44

hate self deception. It's

24:46

a response I inherited from my father,

24:49

a man who despised the ways people

24:51

lie to themselves to justify

24:53

their needs and actions. But suddenly

24:55

it's clear I will have to live with

24:58

that remembered content in order to keep

25:00

listening. If I want to open the

25:03

channel so my boy can talk to me, then

25:05

I'll also have to live with a doubt, perhaps

25:07

even ridicule Matt. So many

25:10

people we doubt our own

25:12

thoughts. We worry about

25:14

what other people have to say about what we're

25:16

doing. What would you say

25:19

that helped you move through that? You

25:21

know what, I've got a backbone to share

25:23

this, this is reality and

25:25

to push through that doubt.

25:28

Yeah, I think that what you say is

25:30

really important about pushing through because

25:32

it's not a matter of certainty.

25:36

And actually, some people clients of mine

25:38

that I've taught how to channel, and I'm

25:40

resisted because they say, I'm only going to channel

25:43

if I have no doubt, if I have certainty,

25:45

and then they don't. They don't channel even

25:48

though they could, even though they have because

25:50

they are insisting on certainty in

25:52

order to reach out across the

25:54

veil and reach the loved ones on the other side.

25:57

So if we're going to say I have to have uncertainty

25:59

to do this, and most

26:01

of us will not be able to do it.

26:03

We need to take a quick break, and I promise

26:05

we'll pick up right where we left off.

26:08

You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife

26:10

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26:13

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27:51

Welcome back, to Shades of the Afterlife.

27:53

I'm Sanders Champlain and we're with doctor

27:55

Matthew McKay, author

27:57

of the book Seeking Jordan

28:00

and how I learned the truth about

28:02

death and the Invisible Universe.

28:05

I just asked him about doubt.

28:07

Very difficult to think. Are

28:10

these thoughts coming in my mind? Are they mine?

28:12

Or are they really from someone in the afterlife.

28:15

So as we continue on, we'll talk about

28:17

pushing through doubt, we'll talk

28:19

about grief, and he'll share

28:22

with us his method of

28:24

connecting to loved ones and

28:27

even our soul.

28:29

Clients of mind that I've taught how to channel.

28:31

And it resisted because if they say I'm only

28:33

going to channel if I have no doubt,

28:35

if I have certainty, and then they

28:37

don't. They don't channel even though they could,

28:40

even though they have, because they are

28:42

insisting on certainty in order

28:44

to reach out across the veil

28:46

and reach the loved ones on the other side. So if

28:48

we're going to say I have to have uncertainty to do

28:50

this, then most of us will not be

28:53

able to do it. But it's just

28:55

what you said, it's pushing through the doubt and

28:57

doubt shows up for me. Still, I have

29:00

moments where the thought occurs to me, is

29:03

this real? Or something Jordan

29:05

says makes me wondering, what would you just say? Does

29:07

that make sense? And oftentimes even

29:09

just starting the process, I have to start

29:12

with the awareness that I

29:14

have fear that something might happen that

29:16

might lead me to believe that it's not true,

29:18

So that doubt is there. I've been

29:21

doing this now for fifteen years,

29:23

and I would say the doubt has

29:25

diminished somewhat, but

29:27

it still shows up. And

29:30

so every time I

29:32

start, I usually channel with Jordan once a week. Every

29:35

time I start to channel, I

29:37

can feel a little of that edge of anxiety

29:39

that what if something happens

29:41

here that makes me wonder if this is

29:43

true? And there's a little bit of

29:45

doubt, And so I have to push

29:48

through it because my

29:50

biggest value is the love

29:52

between Jordan and myself and enact

29:55

that and be part of that and engage

29:57

with him with love. That's my biggest

30:00

and I have to do that even though sometimes there's

30:02

some doubt.

30:03

It's so tough being human. I

30:06

tell you, we all know this. We have this voice

30:08

in our head that's not our biggest champion.

30:10

I know.

30:10

Sometimes there's that divine guidance

30:12

and that self with the big ass and our

30:15

soul self. But why

30:17

do we believe the voice of this negativity

30:20

when we look at the mirror and mine shows the

30:22

extra pounds and the gray hairs and all that,

30:25

and it is not my best friend. Yet we believe

30:27

it for so many other things. So push

30:29

through that doubt. I love that I

30:31

do.

30:32

Remember when I said love in the face of pain. See,

30:36

if we're going to engage in

30:38

a loving way with the souls on the other

30:40

side and maintain that relationship

30:42

and send love back and forth, we

30:45

have to do it in the face of pain here, and

30:47

the pain is doubt an

30:50

uncertainty, and pain is

30:52

missing that person and grieving, and

30:54

then when we try to make contact, it brings

30:57

up the grief. So this is another example.

30:59

In this case, it's love across the veil. But

31:01

we have to hear we have to do it in the face

31:03

of pain, and doubt is one of those difficult things.

31:06

Agreed, If you wouldn't

31:08

mind share some tools about how

31:10

we can channel, as you

31:12

call it, with our loved ones, because Matt

31:15

who's listening right now, could

31:17

be experiencing some of the worst grief

31:19

imaginable, and we want to believe.

31:22

How would we start if you wouldn't mind, We'd

31:24

love to learn.

31:26

Yeah, there was one other thing I

31:28

wanted to say about God and

31:30

the afterlife. There is no judgment in

31:32

the afterlife. God doesn't judge,

31:35

or that all doesn't judge. This whole idea

31:37

that we have to live this life and we're going to

31:39

be judged at the end of it and go

31:41

to hell and go to have it's

31:43

completely false and

31:46

Jordan's just said that over and over

31:48

and over again. It's false.

31:51

There is no judgment in the afterlife.

31:54

All we do is go there and learn

31:56

from the life we just lived. We're

31:59

not judged, we're not ridiculed, we're not examined,

32:02

we're not turned back because

32:04

of things we did. So I just want to really emphasize

32:07

that that that's one of the other really important

32:09

things about the afterlife is a place of love

32:11

and zero judgment, and there

32:13

are no places where people will go to and

32:15

suffer. Okay, how

32:17

do I channel? Sorry for that little bit digression,

32:20

but it's perfect.

32:22

We needed to hear it.

32:23

So just I would encourage people to

32:25

just select a place that you feel safe

32:27

and secure. I actually usually

32:30

channel right here in this room,

32:32

right at this desk and such my childhood

32:34

desk and my folks gave me when I was eleven. Find

32:36

something that makes the place that you feel safe and

32:39

set that up as a kind of a ritual for

32:41

where you'll channel. Then you need

32:43

to clarify the spiritual address of

32:45

where you're sending your communications

32:47

to the afterlife. You can just

32:50

be aware of the soul you're trying to communicate

32:52

by the way you can channel yourself. You

32:54

can channel your own soul energy in the afterlife,

32:57

and that could be an address you send

32:59

community vccasions, you can channel to

33:02

guides and so anyway,

33:04

just be clear on the address, Who is it, what

33:07

entity are you? Are you seeking to

33:09

communicate with? I think it's sometimes

33:11

it's very helpful in terms of communicating

33:14

to these souls who we knew in life

33:16

and have died. Is to have a little talisman,

33:19

something that connects us to them, a physical

33:21

object, something that maybe they gave

33:23

us, or something that belonged to them. I

33:26

use Jordan, I use actually

33:29

this business card that he had that

33:31

says Jordan McKay that the CEO

33:34

of Mega Technology, there was no Mega Technology.

33:36

He used this to get into trade shows when

33:38

he was in high school. But I keep the

33:41

card because it just reminds me of

33:43

his humor. And it's just the quality of a person

33:46

to create a person.

33:47

And that's my talents.

33:49

But you find one of your own

33:51

and get something that nexts you to that

33:53

person in a physical way. It

33:55

really is helpful for I fixation. Just use

33:57

a candle, just something

34:00

that holds your attention. You can look at it,

34:02

but it could be anything. It could be a mandala or

34:05

some certain seapoly stone

34:08

or celtic not whatever. But

34:10

find something you can put your attention on, and

34:14

then take a breath, and as you exhale,

34:16

now we're going to go into the kind of a symbol of a pasta

34:18

meditation. As you exail, just

34:20

form the intention to open the channel.

34:23

Bring all attention down to the diaphragm. Focus

34:25

on the diaphragm. It's a center of breath,

34:27

center of life. On each

34:29

outbreath count So first out breath,

34:32

one second, but two, three, four,

34:34

keep counting to ten. If

34:36

you're starting to feel receptive and open,

34:39

you can start moving into channeling. If

34:42

not, do another round of ten. So

34:44

it's just a simple meditation where

34:46

we attend to the breath. When

34:48

there's a thought that comes up, let

34:51

the thought go, go back to the breath and

34:53

just count each outbreath, each out there,

34:55

one, two, three, letting go

34:57

of thoughts and returning to the breath. Very

35:00

very simple meditation. And it's

35:02

okay when thoughts show up, but just leave

35:04

the thought as soon as you notice it and get back to the breath.

35:06

So that gets us into a kind of a receptive

35:08

state. And the meanwhile, while you're doing

35:11

the meditation, just keep your eyes fixed

35:13

on the candle. What Ralph taught

35:15

me is this little divination to add to

35:17

this. And what you do is you

35:19

visualize at orb just above your head, maybe six

35:21

inches above your head, color the sun,

35:24

and just visualize it there and then

35:27

see it elongating into a tube

35:29

like connection to the soul you're trying

35:31

to reach. And this is the channel opening.

35:33

We visualize it the orb and

35:35

now we just visualize the channel

35:37

opening all the way to that

35:40

soul. And in fact, that's

35:42

exactly what happens, because every soul

35:44

in the afterlife who we love is just a thought of way,

35:46

since we think about them, it opens the channel.

35:49

And so the channel is opening as

35:51

we are thinking about with love, we're

35:53

thinking about that soul that we want to connect to,

35:56

and so the channel is now open. I

35:58

think it's really important is to make

36:00

sure that the communications are written

36:02

down. So get it in a notebook or whatever. But

36:05

you have to paper and have a writing

36:07

implement and write your question

36:10

down, write your first question down, and

36:13

then wait. The answer will show

36:15

up in your mind. But the answer is being

36:18

channeled or it's being communicated

36:21

telepathically, so just wait.

36:23

And it can come in different ways. Sometimes

36:26

it comes as a big download, just this huge

36:28

download, it doesn't even words, just knowing. Sometimes

36:31

it comes as an image or a picture. Sometimes

36:34

it comes as a few distinct words,

36:36

you're very succinct. Sometimes

36:39

it comes as a phrase, and

36:41

then you have to wait for the phrase to turn into a whole

36:43

sentence, and then you may wait a little bit

36:45

for the next sentence. And sometimes it

36:48

comes slowly. So it comes in all different ways,

36:50

and it's okay. Every way is fine. If

36:53

it comes as a picture or just knowing, then

36:56

you have to find words to describe the

36:58

knowing or the picture. But in

37:00

every case, write down what

37:03

you get, whether it's just a

37:05

few words, very very compressed information,

37:09

or in some cases it's

37:11

many, many sentences, and

37:13

just stay with it until it stops,

37:15

stay with it until the communication stops, and

37:17

then you write down the next question.

37:20

And the other thing is the act of writing. Watching

37:23

the ink on the page is

37:25

part of channeling because it

37:27

actually puts us in a very receptive state. Literally

37:30

watching the ink form on the page puts us in

37:32

very recept state. So that's why it's so important in

37:34

my view to write down the questions

37:37

and the answers that come down. The other reason you want to

37:39

write down the answers is you want to have a record to look back

37:41

on later. I have lots of things that Jordan has

37:43

said to me and I'll go back years later just

37:45

read them and go, oh my god, I forgot that, and

37:47

that's important and that actually happens

37:49

to me all the time. So having the record

37:52

helps preserve the learning

37:54

that you're getting. And you can ask

37:56

anything. You can ask how that soul is what

37:58

they're doing. One point, I asked

38:01

Jordan if he incarnated, he had incarnated

38:03

as a little girl, and he

38:05

could tell me some things about that life if

38:08

I was curious. But you can ask about what's

38:10

happening with the soul right now, what they're learning in the

38:12

afterlife. Jordan's talked a lot about

38:14

that, He's learning a lot about how to influence

38:17

people, how to influence people to

38:20

see things in new ways. Also,

38:22

you can ask about what is going on

38:24

up there, what is the afterlife like. Also

38:28

you can ask advice for your own life. These souls

38:30

are very wise. Every soul has had

38:32

many, many lives, and they have the

38:34

benefit of wisdom that we've forgotten. When

38:36

they come here, we leave that behind as part

38:38

of the amnesia of life. So

38:41

they have all this wisdom. So we can ask their advice.

38:43

I Jordan about advice about

38:46

every day about his sister. How should I respond

38:48

to this or that? I asked him the work

38:50

problems. I asked his advice while I'm

38:52

doing a psychotherapy session, I'm feeling

38:54

stuck, what do I do now? And

38:57

he speaks up and usually

38:59

it's some that didn't occur to me. And

39:01

so you can ask for advice.

39:03

We can ask for the nature of reality that we can

39:06

help let us form a new or a

39:09

more accurate cosmology of how things really

39:11

are and why we're here. And

39:13

we can ask about them and what's going

39:15

on for them. I think it is important

39:18

though, in these communications to convey

39:20

love to that so to

39:23

send them love in whatever form,

39:25

because they need our love

39:28

just like we need their love. It enhances

39:30

their existence. So sending love,

39:33

I think is an important part of channeling. When

39:35

we're channeling love when something side.

39:37

So that's basically it's pretty much as simple

39:39

as that. And after perious silence,

39:41

when you finish one question, you can just write

39:44

another one them.

39:45

Let's go for our last break, and there's

39:47

more to say from doctor Matthew

39:49

McKay. We'll be right back.

39:51

You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife

39:54

on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast

39:56

AM Paranormal Podcast

39:59

Network.

40:06

Don't go anywhere. There's more Shades of the Afterlife

40:09

coming right up.

40:13

Before the

40:22

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40:24

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40:27

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40:34

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Network.

40:53

Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife.

40:55

I'm Sandra Champlain and

40:57

we've been listening to professor

41:00

and psychotherapist doctor

41:02

Matthew McKay on how he channels

41:06

his son Jordan through

41:08

writing. If you're anything like me, this

41:10

is an episode we want to listen to

41:12

again with the notebook handy.

41:15

As we move on, he's speaking

41:17

about love and I have some more questions

41:20

for him about this channeling process,

41:23

and then we also get into the very important

41:25

topic of grief, So

41:28

let's continue.

41:29

I think it is important though, in these

41:31

communications to convey love to

41:34

that's so to send them love in

41:36

whatever form, because they

41:39

need our love just like we need their love.

41:41

It enhances their existence. So

41:44

sending love, I think is an important

41:46

part of channeling. When we're channeling love on something

41:48

the other side, Well, that's basically.

41:51

It's pretty much as simple as that. And

41:53

after purious silence, when you finish one

41:55

question, you can just write another one.

41:57

That a couple of things that came to

41:59

mind.

41:59

One.

42:00

I think it's great writing it down because

42:04

I know, if I want to talk to my dad,

42:06

I'll start, hey, Dad, and then all of a sudden, it's what

42:08

are we going to have for dinner tonight?

42:10

Exactly a lot of distractions. Yes,

42:13

that's a good one.

42:14

Yeah, So we're writing it down when

42:16

mister or missus doubt does creep in though.

42:19

Something comes out of the pen and

42:21

the mind starts to analyze and think, oh,

42:23

that's crazy, I just made it up. Do we

42:25

go back to the candle? Do we go back to taking

42:28

a few breaths? Thank you doubt

42:30

for sharing. But we're going to keep

42:32

going with this push through that.

42:34

Yeah, I just keep going, Just keep going.

42:37

Sometimes he says something. Jordan says

42:39

a lot of things to me that haven't occurred to me before,

42:42

which is one of the ways I feel clear

42:45

about the authenticity of this communication.

42:47

But I sometimes you'll say

42:50

something, I'll go, what is that? But

42:52

I just keep going. I just stay with the process.

42:55

I asked the next question, or I asked him to clarify

42:57

it, or I'll you men

43:00

doing boy, I'm feeling a lot of uncertainty,

43:03

and so he'll just respond to that at some way.

43:06

So I bring it into the conversation. But

43:09

I think it's important to just keep going, don't give

43:11

up when doubt shows up, don't

43:13

stop stay with it.

43:15

I remember when I wrote my book, I had a writing

43:18

coach and she says, just let it all

43:20

flow. Let it all flow. The time to

43:22

analyze it is after

43:25

after you got your stories out. And I think two when

43:27

we do the channel in writing,

43:30

don't write a sentence and read a sentence. Write a sentence,

43:32

read a sentence. Maybe just

43:34

be in that flow, be open

43:37

and experiment with it. I

43:40

also think, Matt, that it's important.

43:43

I know you say you work with Jordan

43:45

every week. There's so many people

43:48

and myself included, we want immediate

43:50

results. We want maybe

43:52

the lights to flicker on and off or something so

43:55

obvious it takes something from

43:57

us. I think it's not that they can't give

43:59

us a good sign, because they can, but

44:01

to open up that relationship and keep it

44:04

going. So would it make sense

44:06

to make a date with our loved

44:08

ones and keep that journal

44:10

and today's date is such and such.

44:13

How often did you channel

44:15

with Jordan when you started.

44:18

I can't remember. I would channel with him fairly

44:21

often, but it might have been about the

44:23

same interval now as once a week, I

44:25

would say. And so over the course of fifteen

44:28

years, I've had hundreds

44:30

of communications and I've

44:32

been so blessed

44:35

to hear from him.

44:37

And so I don't think there's any

44:40

rule about this, but I do think that people

44:42

should try to do it often enough.

44:45

If they stay connected. It's the same

44:47

thing when you're any loved one. You have to talk to

44:49

them periodically, and that's what feeds

44:51

the relationship. And you talk to

44:53

them, you connect, You find out what's going

44:56

on with them, they find out what's going

44:58

on with you, and through that that process,

45:00

love flows between you. And

45:02

I think it's exactly the same thing with loved

45:04

ones. In the affli and Jordan has been so

45:07

clear about this, I guess I

45:09

want to say this that relationships

45:12

always live. It

45:14

doesn't matter if that person dies, the relationship

45:17

lives. That person is just a thought away.

45:20

They love us, and the

45:22

love is still living, still

45:25

active, still flourishing.

45:28

And that's true regardless of whether

45:30

we connect to them or not, whether we channel or

45:32

not. But when we channel, we

45:34

get to act on that love ourselves and

45:36

we get to bathe in the love. We get to feel

45:39

the love, which is such a beautiful thing.

45:41

That's one of the things that is so wonderful

45:44

for me. There. It doesn't happen every time I channel,

45:46

but there are moments when I just feel

45:48

Jordan's love all through me, and

45:51

I feel my love for

45:53

him inside my body,

45:55

and it's just such a beautiful moment, and

45:58

that's one of the rewards of channeling is feeling

46:00

that love as an act of living,

46:02

experience beautiful words.

46:05

I know personally grief can

46:07

come on like waves,

46:10

and all the investigating I've done

46:13

really has helped with the grief, but the grief

46:15

is still there. So if we're in one

46:17

of those waves of grief, do

46:20

we wait till another time to do it? Push

46:23

through it, include our loved one

46:25

in it. Any words

46:27

on.

46:28

Grief, all emotions

46:30

are waves, and interestingly,

46:33

some resources shows the average emotion

46:35

lasts less than seven minutes, even

46:37

in grief itself. Now there'll be

46:39

another wave, but all emotions

46:42

come as waves, and to not be afraid of them

46:45

when that wave comes, allow

46:47

it to ride it. And it's also you

46:49

mentioned one choice we have when

46:52

that grief shows up is to

46:54

turn it into communication, to

46:56

open the channel during the period of grief.

46:58

And I think sometimes there's complicated

47:00

things about grief, and sometimes grief actually blocks

47:02

the channel. So people are waiting for the loved ones

47:04

to show up or appear to them or give

47:06

them a sign, and their grief is so powerful

47:09

it kind of blocks the channel and the loved one

47:11

can't get through but also paradoxically,

47:14

if you deliberately open the channel during

47:16

grief, I think it can make it. The communication

47:18

is more intense, more beautiful

47:20

in some ways, because now we're just not

47:23

conveying words, we're conveying our

47:25

deepest feelings, our love on

47:28

the deepest level. So the grief actually is an

47:30

opportunity to open the channel

47:32

with great power and truthfulness.

47:35

And the two things here, one is don't be afraid

47:37

of the wave. Let the wave come. See,

47:39

people are afraid of grief because they think it's a model. Oh

47:42

the grief's gonna come, it's gonna crush me and down

47:44

I go, I won't be able to survive it. But

47:46

it doesn't work like that. It's just

47:48

a wave and a wave of subsides, and

47:51

after a period of time there'll be another way.

47:54

The longer out we go after

47:56

the person's death, usually the waves are

47:58

further apart, and sometimes they're

48:01

a little less intense. But

48:03

it's also possible years later

48:06

you can have a wave that goes right through the roof

48:08

and ride it and allow it and don't be afraid

48:10

of it, and that wave is actually

48:13

an opportunity to connect. I

48:15

just want to encourage people to allow the feeling.

48:18

On some level, the feeling

48:20

is beautiful because

48:22

what makes grief so intense is the love,

48:25

and so when we allow the grief, we're

48:27

also allowing the love. And I

48:29

guess I want to encourage people to

48:32

do that. And the last thing I will say about grief

48:34

is I've learned if

48:36

I could put that way to grieve Jordan's

48:38

physical absence, and he'd be thirty nine. I

48:41

don't get to see him grow up. I don't get to see

48:43

him having fa I mean, he was twenty three when he died. They're

48:45

not going to be a family. His girlfriend when

48:47

he died has a new partner and

48:49

has a kid, and I won't get to have

48:52

any of that. But I or get to observe any of that

48:54

or be part of any of that, And Jordan, in

48:56

his life doesn't get to have that. And so

48:58

I can have grief about it physical

49:00

absence, but I don't have grief

49:03

about he's gone. And I

49:05

don't have grief about the love

49:07

I have for him has nowhere to go, or the love

49:09

he has for me I can't receive. That

49:12

is not part of the grief. The grief is just

49:14

limited to Oh, his physical presence is

49:16

not here, but Jordan is

49:18

here. Jordan is with me, and he says

49:21

that to me all the time. Bill

49:23

Tarious, I say it all the time. He's

49:25

done.

49:25

I am with you.

49:27

I am with you, and he is. So the grief

49:29

is limited when we start really

49:31

communicating and connecting, limited

49:34

to just the loss of that physical manifestation

49:37

of that soul.

49:38

Beautiful words. I spoke

49:40

with a mom you may know her, Maria

49:43

pay, whose two sons were murdered

49:46

by her ex husband and then he killed

49:48

himself, and she said, when those waves

49:50

of grief come, I think of

49:52

a good memory with my boys. I

49:55

think I have the love, and then I start

49:57

talking to them. So that's her way

49:59

in and then really touched

50:02

my heart. Matt, any

50:04

more words you wish to share?

50:06

Jordan asked me to say. When

50:08

I have an opportunity to tell a

50:10

little bit about history

50:13

in US, is that He just says,

50:15

Remember, you will be received,

50:18

you will be cared for, and

50:21

you will be loved. When you die,

50:23

he says, the dark door will open and

50:26

the light of love take you. So

50:28

you don't have to be afraid of death. And

50:31

also we don't have to be afraid of the impermanence.

50:34

Here where loved ones appear

50:37

to die, the dark

50:39

door opens and the light of love has

50:42

taken them in and will take us.

50:45

So enjoyed being with you then.

50:47

And thank you to doctor Matthew McKay,

50:50

author of the book Seeking Jordan,

50:52

How I learned the truth about death and

50:55

the Invisible Universe. I hope

50:57

you give doctor Matt's

51:00

channeling a try. Whether

51:02

you call it automatic writing or inspired

51:04

writing, it's all dealing with

51:06

the same tools to connect.

51:09

Our loved ones are with us, and

51:11

they work with us in such subtle

51:14

ways, and sometimes we just

51:16

need to quiet that busy mind

51:18

to let the floodgates open. That

51:21

little voice of doubt will always be there

51:23

for us. But the more we do

51:25

this, the more we will be convinced

51:28

that it is our loved ones speaking.

51:31

I came across a few quotes today

51:33

that I want to share with you, not about

51:35

the afterlife, but about living

51:37

life. Often it's very hard

51:40

to take the first step in the direction

51:42

of our dreams, and it may be to

51:44

do the practice doctor McKay

51:46

told us about today. William

51:48

shed said a ship in

51:50

a harbor is safe, but that is

51:53

not what ships are built for and

51:55

Neil Donald Walsh said life

51:58

begins at the end of your comfort It zonne

52:01

my friend. It is so difficult being

52:03

a human being. But when we venture

52:05

out of the safe harbor and we have

52:07

our eyes focused on a goal, miracles

52:10

happen. You can fill the

52:12

sales with gratitude and

52:15

kindness and being of service

52:17

to others. I think that's the recipe

52:20

for a good life. As a reminder,

52:22

my home base is we Don't Die dot

52:25

com. If you enter your name and your

52:27

email address on that front page

52:29

down at the bottom, you get a free copy of

52:31

my book. Chapter ten is how

52:34

to Survive Grief. I do hope

52:36

you take me up on that. It's so powerful.

52:39

We also offer our free Sunday

52:41

gathering of course with medium demonstration

52:44

included wonderful classes,

52:46

demonstrations, events, and

52:48

so much more. I'm Sandra

52:51

Champlain and from the bottom of

52:53

my heart, thank you for listening

52:55

to Shades of the Afterlife

52:57

on the iHeartRadio and Coast to

52:59

co Stay m Paranormal Podcast

53:02

Network.

53:10

Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast

53:12

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53:14

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53:16

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