0:00

This is so funny. Like we were expecting

0:02

to learn all this stuff about spirituality

0:04

and someone is, now we're

0:06

talking about,

0:08

About politics. you know, why? Because

0:10

spirituality is. And

0:12

because politics is informed

0:14

by spirituality, people who start wars,

0:17

they usually blame it. Well, they don't blame

0:19

it. They justify it because God

0:22

said so.

0:22

right.

0:23

Right. So, So, that's why

0:25

we keep on go or we, I

0:27

do it too. I find everything goes

0:30

back to politics because spirituality

0:32

and politics are fairly interchangeable.

1:00

Welcome back to another episode of shit we don't

1:03

tell mom where we get comfortable with the

1:05

uncomfortable today. We have

1:07

Mimi young joining us from all the

1:09

way from Vancouver Mimi is

1:11

a Han Taiwanese Canadian. She is

1:14

a mama of two, a tea lover.

1:16

She's a bibliophile. She is a lucid

1:18

dreamer, which is something that I would love

1:21

to learn to be better at. Maybe you have

1:23

some tips for me. she also loves house and

1:25

techno and what's super

1:27

cool is she's also a spirit

1:29

communicator and a shamanistic,

1:32

occultist. I think that's how you say it. occultist.

1:35

Thank you for nodding. She's

1:37

also the founder of ceremony and esoteric

1:40

brand focusing on imparting ancient

1:42

and practical wisdom so that her

1:44

clients can break out of negative patterns

1:46

from spirits and healing energies.

1:48

Mimi works with core shamanism

1:51

and ancestral wisdom, dream work, chaos

1:53

magik with a K at the end and

1:55

other Chinese mystic practices. And

1:58

to communicate with the unseen offering education,

2:01

mentorship, private readings, and

2:03

skin and aura care. Welcome

2:05

Mimi to the show.

2:08

Thank you so much for having me.

2:11

All these things that we were just talking about, all

2:13

of the spiritual listic things that

2:15

you are working on, that you are involved

2:17

in. I've always been very curious

2:20

about the unseen world. But

2:22

yet I am, it makes me

2:24

uncomfortable and makes me a little bit

2:27

scared. You know, it's, it's like looking

2:29

into a hole that without

2:32

knowing what's on the other end of it, but you're

2:34

curious. So those are, those

2:36

are how I feel about like the

2:38

unseen world and spiritual ism. First

2:41

of all, how did you get into this?

2:43

I would say that I started a lot feeling

2:45

the way you did or you still do.

2:47

and yeah, I jumped in the hole

2:51

you saw the uncertainty and you're like,

2:54

hello, you didn't dip your toes

2:56

in. You just dive bread. You just dove.

2:58

Right.

3:00

I mean, when I was

3:02

very, very young, I

3:04

was very connected and

3:06

aware that, spirits were around

3:09

me. yeah, I could hear plants for

3:11

instance. They're definitely my

3:13

earliest, you know, form of friendships.

3:16

and, and yeah, like it's just,

3:18

you know, as one grows up in the kind of world

3:20

that we live in, perhaps some

3:22

of it, you know, culture and religion play

3:24

a bit of a role. but just the greater society.

3:27

It's, it's not something that is talked

3:29

about is not something that is encouraged. Unless

3:32

there's that additional typecast,

3:34

right? Like that, oh, that that's, that's

3:37

weird or all these additional stereotypes

3:39

that's associated with mediumship or

3:42

spirit communication or magic

3:44

and, you know, shamonic work. so yeah,

3:46

it, it did go go dormant for a really

3:48

long time. it would sort

3:50

of rear its head over. So often it did a bit

3:53

when I was a teenager and I would start

3:55

psychic smelling things. So smell things

3:58

that were not there, but it meant like the

4:00

smells or the sense carried messages.

4:02

But yeah, ultimately how I got into this

4:05

was because I decided to, you

4:07

know, go head first into the hole. and

4:10

really it was because I ran out of options.

4:12

I, you know, I tried everything else and nothing else was working.

4:15

So I thought, well, I've already lost

4:17

all of it. So, you know, it's not

4:19

going, I'm not going to lose anything else. so I jumped.

4:22

what do you mean by you've already

4:24

lost all of it.

4:26

Yeah, So I lost my sense

4:28

of safety. I lost my identity.

4:30

I lost my idea of what

4:32

love meant I lost, you know, like

4:34

success on a, like on paper,

4:36

everything I had it all, but none of it meant

4:39

a thing ultimately. And, every

4:41

rule that I followed that carried

4:44

the promise that I would live like a happy,

4:46

fulfilling wondrous life was

4:49

I like, none of it was true.

4:51

and I think the best way to

4:53

explain it was I was living

4:55

a life of very staple

4:57

boredom. but it's like the kind of boredom.

5:00

Actually deeply painful. Like it's like

5:03

a, it, you know, it really

5:05

aroused those extra existential

5:07

questions of like, why am I even here? What's

5:10

the point of even being alive? do I

5:12

really have to do this until I'm 90?

5:14

Like, you know, and it

5:16

could have been any day. It could have been any month,

5:19

but I already knew what was planned. I already

5:21

knew what I had to do for work. I already knew,

5:24

you know, when my paycheck would come in, which was

5:26

a very handsome one, I already knew

5:28

how I was going to spend it in terms of vacations

5:30

and coffees and clothes and all these

5:33

things. And I was

5:35

just really not interested

5:37

in any of it anymore. I

5:40

felt like I was a

5:42

ghost essentially. Like I was this, this

5:44

shell of a person on the outside

5:46

that maybe, had it all

5:48

so to speak. And yet I

5:51

didn't have that.

5:52

It was like, you had it all from

5:55

what others tell you that you should have,

5:57

but on the inside you were just empty

6:00

because it wasn't what you wanted.

6:02

Yeah, it was on someone else's terms,

6:04

which is not what you'd want. Right.

6:05

Totally. And I mean, I

6:08

w I was the cliched good

6:10

Chinese daughter. Like, it's

6:14

so funny that like, you know the

6:16

name of your podcast. It's like, oh yeah,

6:19

look, there's a lot of shit to tell you for sure.

6:24

Let's go into that. What

6:26

was mom's reaction when

6:28

you made this switch?

6:31

Oh, well of course he didn't like it. I mean,

6:35

So I I'm, I'm I mean I'm the first

6:37

born, and with it, there's

6:39

all sorts of expectations around being, you know, the first

6:41

born Chinese daughter, from,

6:44

you know, the relationship with siblings

6:46

and the obligations that one has to take with siblings,

6:49

to caring for the

6:51

family, you know, parents,

6:54

elders, and so forth, being constantly

6:56

available, doing it with a

6:58

smile on your face. and yeah,

7:01

my mom's an evangelical Christian.

7:03

So, you know, in addition to the

7:05

culture that, I, I live

7:07

in there's this additional layer

7:10

of religion, and particularly one

7:12

that is rooted in obedience

7:15

and not questioning

7:17

and following the rules because the

7:19

rules are meant to protect you or lead

7:21

you to this life of reward.

7:23

And in the case of,

7:25

the, the sort of churches that I attended

7:28

the reward was was, you know, it's

7:30

in heaven, which means that you're not

7:32

really gonna see the reward until you're dead,

7:34

which, you know, takes an immense amount of patience

7:37

and faith. and, and yeah, so,

7:39

so there's all that layered into

7:41

it.

7:42

did she knew that you were,

7:45

I don't even know if these are the right terms, so please

7:47

correct me like spiritually gifted since

7:49

you were a child. Cause you mentioned like you've, you've

7:51

always had.

7:52

Yeah, she

7:54

would, especially like when she

7:56

stepped into like, so she stepped into the church

7:58

when I was in, you know yeah. Like

8:00

junior high liquid or middle school in

8:03

per for listeners who may not be familiar

8:05

with what junior high means. so like around like

8:07

grade grade, seven grade eight ish. and

8:10

you know, from that point on, she

8:13

would say things like, oh, it was like

8:15

God's way or like the holy Spirit's

8:17

way to talk to me. Yet.

8:21

So many of my quote unquote giftings

8:24

was not what was discussed in the Bible

8:26

or discussed on the pulpit. So

8:29

it was always like encouraging me

8:31

to find other ways to speak to the Lord,

8:33

that were more acceptable. Like maybe through prayer

8:36

or maybe through, through. Other

8:38

mediums that wasn't necessarily through, let's say

8:40

psychic scent or, or, or

8:42

so forth. it was always sort of seen

8:44

through that filter. and then when

8:46

I said, no, mom, I'm not even communicating with

8:48

Jesus. Like, I'm definitely not communicating

8:50

with Jesus. I'm communicating with dead people. I'm

8:52

communication with plants, I'm

8:54

communicating with animals. that, that

8:57

was really upsetting. I think it was upsetting for

8:59

her because she, by then genuinely believed

9:02

that what I was doing was evil, even

9:04

though ancestrally it's what, you

9:06

know, our culture, we've always done that. Like, I mean, when

9:08

you think about, let's say, the lunar new

9:10

year, it's always about ancestral reverence.

9:13

So it was always about this continuity

9:15

of cycles. people that came before us

9:17

and the people who came before them and so forth,

9:19

and always goes back to the land. Like

9:21

what I was believing, I was really

9:24

by technical definition, I was just being,

9:26

and living my culture.

9:27

Yeah. Well, I'm listening to

9:29

you. I feel this sort of you're

9:32

stirring up the ancestral connection

9:34

that I feel like when you're talking about this,

9:36

all I can think about is

9:39

like the things that I used to see my grandmother

9:41

do, you know, putting out food

9:43

for those who are not there. And

9:46

even back then, my uncle was the first

9:48

to. Immigrate out

9:50

of our Homeland, our ancestral land.

9:52

And she will use to put out a pair of

9:54

chopsticks and a bowl of rice for him

9:56

during every single big occasion.

9:59

And to me that I haven't

10:01

thought about that for a really long

10:03

time, until what you just said. Now, I feel

10:05

this immediately by hearing

10:08

what you talk about and about how like,

10:11

Hey, this has been a part of our

10:13

culture for so long. Like immediately I

10:15

made that connection and that that's an incredible

10:17

feeling.

10:18

I mean, it's, it's so funny when people think like,

10:21

you know, when you are a witch, so

10:23

to speak that you have to go to this far away

10:25

place and be ordained and

10:27

have this huge epiphany. for me, yes.

10:30

In some ways I did have an epiphany,

10:32

it was like really profound. but it was

10:34

also a series of small

10:37

things that, yeah, like

10:39

you, like, I did the same. I, I looked

10:41

to what my mum did before she entered

10:43

the church. I looked, I looked at what my

10:45

grandpa. Did and still do.

10:48

I looked at, you know, I I've

10:50

listened to the stories of what they told me, what

10:52

they did as children and so forth.

10:54

and yeah, it's always been around offerings.

10:57

It's always been around certain lunar holidays

10:59

or cycles, and it's always been about

11:02

food or some type of other land-based

11:05

offering. So maybe like in our case equity,

11:07

we also gave, you know, flowers and such

11:09

as offerings, even if they weren't

11:11

meant to be consuming them. And

11:13

then also, yeah, we can kind of weave a bit further dreams,

11:16

lots of dreams. you know, I, I

11:18

recall when I was a child, my

11:21

uncle was saying that, when he was

11:23

in Taiwan, because he, he, he

11:25

sort of spent half this time living there and half his time

11:27

living here, in Vancouver. And

11:29

so he would have these dreams,

11:32

and. One one day he had this

11:34

really profound rim where, my great-grandmother,

11:36

so this would be his grandmother,

11:39

saying that it was cold and damp where she

11:41

was. And so when he woke up, he immediately

11:43

went to her grave site

11:46

and lo and behold it had flooded

11:48

there. and yeah, so, I mean, how can you not

11:50

say that stuff's real, like that stuff is real.

11:53

and yet, with more of that

11:55

quote unquote modern westernized

11:57

lens that my mother took on,

11:59

she said that that was the devil communicating.

12:02

Wow.

12:03

I feel really disheartened to hear that, that

12:05

your mom made that comment basically.

12:08

and, okay, so this is what this

12:10

is. What's going through my mind right now. I burn

12:12

incense. I burn joss paper.

12:15

I do offerings to my ancestors,

12:17

to my dad who has passed away.

12:19

you know, and I, I believe

12:22

that there are spirits. I do,

12:24

I can't, I can't express

12:26

how I believe it, but I believe

12:28

that they exist and there's like

12:31

other beings around us

12:33

and not just what we know. And

12:35

to me, You know, going to the

12:37

cemetery, making my offerings,

12:40

like, communicating with my dad through

12:42

prayers or whatever it is. That

12:44

to me is just me hanging

12:46

out with my dad. Like, I don't even think of it as

12:48

I'm going to use air quotes, witchcraft, or, you know,

12:51

devil stuff. It's just part of my

12:53

culture. It's part of what we do. But

12:55

then if I think about it from a

12:57

Western lens and I, and I'm trying not to

12:59

like make this an east

13:01

versus west thing, but when I

13:03

never thought of it as witchcraft until Mimi,

13:06

you just use the word, which I'm like,

13:08

oh right. There's, there's

13:10

that other definition as well. And

13:13

it's so painted

13:15

with a different colored brush, you know, it feels

13:17

so much more foreign

13:19

when you think about it that way. And it

13:22

feels so much more. Taboo

13:24

when you think of it that way, like, oh my goodness,

13:26

this is, this is the devil talking or you're practicing

13:29

witchcraft versus I'm doing

13:31

a cultural thing that is important to me.

13:33

And I'm just communicating with my dad.

13:35

So, okay, so I'm going to tie this together. talked

13:37

about you're, you're scared of that hole.

13:40

Yeah.

13:40

So what about. If jumping into

13:42

that hole is just about returning

13:44

to what you've always known.

13:47

uh, no

13:49

wonder you've done 37 podcasts.

13:55

And I should say, words

13:58

can be really cheap. Right. You know, like I

14:00

I've, I'm sure you've heard those expressions. Like

14:02

everybody's an artists like, no, fuck man.

14:04

Nope. Not everybody is an artist.

14:06

Some people are really skilled and have

14:08

practiced and put in the hours and some people

14:10

just are not right. Like they're not artistic

14:13

in that sense. So, no, I don't believe

14:15

everyone's an artist. I don't believe everyone's

14:17

a healer and all these cliche things where

14:19

all the words become meaningless because they're, it's all

14:21

overused. Like if I'm going to start waving,

14:23

you know, like my finger and saying

14:26

everyone's a healer, everyone can perform

14:28

surgery. Like obviously not

14:30

right yet, yet, yet I

14:33

do believe that this idea

14:35

of returning back to that hole is

14:38

everyone's right. And I do

14:40

believe that is how we access our

14:42

magic. And it is

14:44

a way that is deeply honoring

14:46

of our ancestry and

14:49

honoring the ancient

14:51

ways, you know, before,

14:53

I don't know, before modern humans fucked

14:55

it all up.

14:58

Yeah. I mean, I guess it was around for thousands

15:01

of years before the, before

15:03

the colonizers were like, you know what?

15:05

We don't like what you're doing.

15:06

I mean, I, I feel, that's why we're here.

15:09

If the ancient ways weren't around

15:11

and if it didn't work, like how on earth

15:13

did humans last, as long as we have. And

15:16

all these quote unquote new methods, I'm not quite

15:18

sure if they're all that great.

15:20

I say that like people who are like, oh, but

15:22

the science is a science and I'm like,

15:24

no, science is science.

15:26

It's not science is science and other

15:28

things. Aren't sciences, like the whole

15:30

idea of us identifying

15:33

science as the science, Hey,

15:35

that's another human. Conject like, that's another

15:37

thing that we made up. Like, so who's to say

15:40

science is all science.

15:42

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's so whenever,

15:44

so for me, like, I feel

15:47

pretty disconnected from all that traditional,

15:49

like ancestral, rituals

15:51

and, you know, sweeping the grave and

15:53

such. And I think that's because my background

15:55

is from mainland China and my parents

15:58

grew up, were born into the cultural

16:00

revolution.

16:01

Where so much of it was eradicated.

16:02

That's right. It was eradicated,

16:04

you know, whereas Mimi you're from Taiwan,

16:07

your ancestors were able to retain a lot

16:09

of that because they didn't go through that. And

16:11

then Kristy, your ancestors were, you know,

16:13

far away from Beijing

16:15

yeah. When communism

16:17

started coming in there, like.

16:19

Exactly.

16:20

Well, that's what my grandfather did. And you

16:22

know, those who remain, who are still

16:24

alive or who we have in contact with are

16:26

the ones that actually, um,

16:29

yeah. Who, who, who left communism

16:31

So it has a huge impact because for me,

16:33

like that is something that is

16:35

a little bit harder for me to relate to with you

16:38

guys, because it's just so foreign

16:40

to me. Like I know my grandmother does a lot of that

16:42

still. but I know I didn't grow up with her.

16:45

And my parents, you know, they went to university,

16:47

they were really doctrine, indoctrinated

16:50

indoctrinated, with all

16:52

the, you know, Western medicine,

16:54

the Western methods, because they were pushed into

16:56

university to, Hey, study science

16:58

study technology. That is the way of the

17:01

future and they became, what

17:03

I would say is agnostic and

17:05

that kinda. Filtered down to myself

17:08

as well, because when you don't grow up with that, it's like

17:10

what you said, you kind of become further,

17:12

further from that hole. And I'm not saying

17:15

that I absolutely do not believe in spirits. And

17:17

I'm not saying that I do believe in spirits, I'm

17:19

kind of in this like open space

17:21

of not really knowing where

17:23

to go, kind of like in, in,

17:26

in limbo of sort of, but

17:28

also like, it's kind of comfortable here

17:30

for me because this is what I know, you know?

17:32

So for someone who's who, for a typical

17:34

person, who's like a skeptic about

17:36

all this stuff, Mimi, like what would your advice

17:38

be?

17:39

I am not in the business of convincing people.

17:42

I like that.

17:43

I am. I, what

17:45

I, what I'm here to do is when

17:48

the person is ready or even

17:50

just willing to have conversations

17:52

then I'm here. And I would

17:54

say this all relates. It

17:57

might seem like I'm jumping around. Um,

17:59

so Angie, you had said how, you know,

18:01

insert, blah, blah, blah, is a science,

18:04

like, you know, blank is a science

18:06

and how in the west,

18:09

there is such a need to label things. Um,

18:11

or to draw these lines to

18:13

say, this is where this begins. This is where that

18:15

begins. if we look to our,

18:17

like the three of like our and

18:20

the, the medicine from our end ancestry,

18:22

which is TCM, um, TCM

18:25

is, is all those things, right? It is

18:27

an art, it is a science,

18:30

um, when one studies

18:33

TCM, not necessarily

18:35

here in the west, but let's say

18:37

in, in, in Taiwan, in China, they

18:40

actually have to have an understanding

18:42

of chinese esoteric practices.

18:45

They need to know, let's say what the wu xing are.

18:47

They need to know to a certain degree, some baseline,

18:50

a foundation of, of the ee jing

18:52

they need to understand Chinese astrology.

18:55

They need to understand lunar medicine, because

18:57

all that actually informs

19:00

an understanding of Herb's and understanding of the

19:02

human body, because everything has always been seen

19:04

through this lens of art and science

19:06

integrated. So even though we call it medicine

19:09

and it is medicine here in the west, we

19:11

are frantically in need of

19:13

validating it through the lens of science,

19:16

hard science, so to speak. It's

19:19

a slower way. And of course, hard

19:21

science is validating that acupuncture is effective,

19:23

that herbalism is effective and all

19:25

these things actually exist. Whereas

19:28

the folks that have been practicing

19:30

this medicine, folk medicine,

19:32

shamonic medicine, that's really what it is .They

19:35

heard it, they heard it from the spirits. They heard it from

19:37

whether it's the spirits of the land or

19:39

spirits of the ancestors. Um, they

19:41

understood it by being aware

19:44

and being in communication. so

19:47

I would say if you're curious,

19:49

or if you're open just start listening

19:51

to start listening to the old

19:54

stories, even if they are

19:56

maybe just by definition, folk tales

19:58

or myths. Um, there's a lot

20:01

of truth in these. And I would say if

20:03

this is a complicated conversation, right?

20:05

Because it's like, so

20:07

those of Han lineage, right?

20:09

Like Han Chinese lineage. There

20:12

is a very messy story, especially

20:14

in the past hundred or so years. Right.

20:16

Um, that has affected the three

20:19

of us. It's affected our parents and also

20:21

affected our grandparents. And of course,

20:23

you know, the younger generations

20:25

as well, where we're really seeing

20:28

the influence of the west

20:30

in our Homeland and

20:33

to the point where the Homeland has denied

20:36

its roots. Right. And, and

20:38

this is messy because it's just like, okay,

20:40

so where do you, how

20:42

do you how do you embody, how do you get rooted

20:45

in to your truth?

20:47

And because so much of it it hasn't been preserved.

20:50

Then, then where do you start

20:52

again? and I would say it's, by setting

20:54

out those chopsticks. And I talk about

20:56

this and I mentorship where it's

20:59

like, yeah, you, you have to invite the dead

21:01

back to your table. I would say that this

21:03

is for all cultures, like, because

21:05

all cultures did historically do this, maybe

21:07

not with chopsticks, but certainly with

21:09

food. And yeah, you invite them back to your table

21:12

and you invite them back into your dreams. Because

21:15

you're cooking anyway. So you're eating

21:17

anyway. So it's not like it's extra work

21:19

and you're, you're, you're going to bed anyway.

21:22

So you're probably going to dream anyway. So that's not

21:24

extra work. The answer is not

21:26

through buying taro cards or,

21:29

like, you know, doing like a 12 step program

21:32

in like, you know, spiritual coaching

21:34

it's by going back to the simple

21:36

things and then starting to listen.

21:39

Like giving ourselves permission to

21:41

explore that and be in touch

21:43

with that, with that cultural

21:45

side of things again, you know, and

21:48

I think it's incredibly sad

21:50

to think that, in our homelands, the

21:53

whiteness is upon

21:55

them, you know, and, and, and

21:58

Yeah,

21:59

how I'm envisioning is as generation

22:01

goes on, if we don't do something about it now, right.

22:04

Then we as a collective

22:06

become more and more disconnected from

22:09

where we come from from our roots. And

22:11

that disconnect, I think,

22:13

is going to lead to a lot of mental

22:16

health issues cause you're not in alignment.

22:20

You will, or you'll wind up like

22:22

me, you know, jumping into the whole

22:24

head first because you're just like, nothing

22:27

else is worth it. Like, well,

22:29

like I said, I ran out of

22:32

options you know, nothing else

22:34

was working. And I think

22:36

for me it was like this

22:38

reaction, like I, you know, like I had

22:40

this longing, I had this longing to be

22:42

home, but I didn't even know what home meant

22:44

and realized that it's not really a physical

22:46

home at all. And

22:48

I think that's the other piece it's it's... for

22:51

folks like us, because we're actually not living

22:53

on the land that our ancestors

22:56

lived on, there is a physical disconnection,

22:58

there's a cellular physical disconnection.

23:01

And so we're always going to be looking

23:03

for it through the cells. We're going to be looking for

23:06

it by choosing terroir

23:08

that is supportive of

23:11

that initial experience.

23:13

So I think for me, because I was born

23:15

in Taiwan, I'm always going to be an island

23:18

girl. And I love being by mountains,

23:20

trees and ocean, and like, no,

23:22

like, no wonder why I love being

23:24

here in Vancouver too, because it's mountain

23:27

trees and ocean. I couldn't not

23:29

live in the Prairies. So there's just like no

23:31

way, because from a vibrational

23:33

perspective, it is not it's

23:35

not compatible with, with, with where

23:37

I was born. And then, you know, when

23:39

you start looking at it from that perspective,

23:41

you start looking at everything else too.

23:43

And I think just even like what you said

23:45

there, noticing where

23:48

you connect to. Like,

23:50

I have an affinity for the ocean as well,

23:52

and I never thought of it as oh,

23:55

it's because my family is from Guangzhou

23:57

and you know, that province is

24:00

next to that fucking ocean! It's

24:03

a port province!

24:05

Oh my oh goodness.

24:08

I need to be around water. I love

24:10

swimming. For example, I need to

24:12

be near the ocean, even

24:14

when I'm traveling. And

24:16

I go into inland for too

24:18

long, I feel uncomfortable. Like

24:21

not as a physical sickness, but just

24:23

like heart. I feel something.

24:26

It's subtle, yeah it's subtle but it's there.

24:28

Yeah.

24:29

I don't know if you guys have been to,

24:32

um, the Chinese garden in

24:34

Chinatown, the Sun Yat Sen and garden.

24:36

So I never went there until I was in university.

24:39

And this was like part of my Asian

24:41

studies class. We went there on a field trip

24:43

and I was like 20, and this is great.

24:46

I took it as a GPA booster, did

24:48

not boost my GPA it's one of the hardest

24:50

classes ever trying to reconnect

24:52

with my roots. But I, I, the first

24:54

thing I felt when I walked into that garden,

24:57

I just like stopped. I

24:59

couldn't walk. I was just like

25:01

hit with this energy because the

25:03

garden is based on the gardens of Su Zhou

25:06

and my ancestors are from Su Zhou.

25:09

So every time I

25:11

feel like I am not myself, I

25:13

go to the garden and it's where I feel

25:16

most at home. And I never thought about

25:18

it that way. As in like, you're surrounded by

25:20

these elements that is deep.

25:23

Yeah. It's like deeply in rooted. And

25:25

now that you say that I'm like, whoa, like, that's

25:27

why I feel so connected. It's not just because

25:29

it's nice and pretty, but it's actually because

25:31

it's... I feel so at home there

25:33

that it makes me feel like, you know, that it's

25:35

my home within this home. And

25:38

it's a garden that I often describe

25:40

as like east within the west.

25:42

Right. Because it's surrounded by like Vancouver,

25:44

downtown condos.

25:46

It's literally like downtown.

25:48

Yeah. And like cheesy hipster bakeries.

25:50

Yeah. Yeah.

25:53

Yeah. And, and I feel like That's not us.

25:55

Yeah. That's like us, right? like within

25:58

our bodies, there's this like garden

26:01

that we nurture. And

26:03

if you don't nurture that garden with

26:05

all these, these, things that we've talked

26:07

about, then the garden will just die and

26:10

Totally. And because it's, it was

26:12

modeled after an

26:14

ancient way of gardening

26:17

and working with plants. That means

26:20

it carries the wisdom of

26:22

the dead. Right. And so it carries

26:24

the wisdom of perhaps folks

26:27

that your ancestors hung out with.

26:29

Right.

26:29

Like it is highly possible.

26:32

And that's what I mean, by that spirit communication.

26:35

Oh I love that. I love that.

26:37

That's spirit communication. You know, like before

26:39

today's recording, I was going to be like, I

26:41

really want to ask her how she talks to spirits.

26:44

Yeah. Yeah. I don't use a crystal ball. It that's for sure.

26:46

But after speaking to you, I

26:48

understand it's not about talking

26:50

to the dead. It's about listening to the dead

26:53

and I think that's very powerful.

26:54

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can start talking

26:57

to them once you can hear their voices.

27:00

Um, but yeah,

27:01

For the average, for the average lay

27:03

person, we can just listen, right? Yeah.

27:06

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I mean, everybody

27:08

has to listen. There's no talking or there's

27:10

not listening.

28:12

What I feel right now is I'm...

28:14

I don't know what this is right now,

28:16

but I'm feeling incredibly uplifted

28:19

because I feel like I'm allowed

28:21

to stop and listen and allow

28:24

to reconnect with

28:26

my spirituality and my culture,

28:28

and it's okay to do that because I feel,

28:31

I feel like a lot of times, you know, because

28:33

we grew up in the west and a

28:36

lot of white supremacy

28:38

influences that either just

28:41

lose our practice and lose our abilities

28:43

to connect because we're just not doing it. And

28:45

then also, because it's

28:48

kind of shamed upon, like people think it's

28:50

weird, you know, even if it's a Chinese

28:52

cultural thing. Growing up, it

28:55

was already weird to bring dumplings to school, let alone

28:57

Like you know what I mean? Like I would

28:59

never talk to my friends about doing that stuff.

29:02

Oh, my God.

29:03

That's true. Kristy you have, in

29:05

the past episodes as well, hesitated to talk

29:07

about, you know, burning the

29:09

papers and the Joss

29:12

joss? Papers. I could really see that hesitation

29:14

because like you said, it's about

29:16

not giving yourself permission, which is

29:18

why, it's so good to talk about it. Which is why

29:21

what Mimi is doing is so important.

29:23

And like, you know, Mimi has this great,

29:25

um, she's an entrepreneur as well. So

29:28

ceremonie which is spelled with an I E you

29:30

know, she offers these services, but she's not going to talk

29:32

about them on the podcast. She's going to talk about

29:35

how much she cares about this whole

29:37

practice and, you know, because it's more

29:39

than about, you know, what I'm trying to say.

29:41

It's sharing that wisdom. It's showing that enthusiasm.

29:44

It's, it's telling us that, Hey,

29:46

it's okay to be connected

29:48

to the water, to the plants.

29:51

It's okay to allow yourself

29:53

to dream about your ancestors and maybe eventually

29:55

have a conversation with them. Like that's

29:57

not a weird thing. Like embrace

30:00

it. It was always been part of our culture,

30:02

regardless if it's Chinese or not, like we're speaking

30:05

from a Chinese lens because we're Chinese right?

30:08

But like Mimi said, this has been practiced

30:10

throughout many, many, many, many,

30:12

many other types of cultures around

30:14

the world, just in different formats.

30:16

But the core of it is

30:18

respecting the dead paying, paying

30:21

tribute to the dead, to your ancestors,

30:23

being in touch with the earth,

30:26

with the, with the elements

30:28

around you and allowing yourself to feel

30:30

that affinity and then allowing

30:32

yourself to be connected to that. Whereas in the

30:34

west, it's Like oh, that's kind of woo.

30:36

Like what's up with that. That's not scientific,

30:39

blah, blah, blah. Like it's, it's very hard

30:41

lines. You know what I mean?

30:43

Have you guys heard of the book called the woo

30:45

woo? No

30:46

it's, written by a Chinese

30:48

Canadian. I think she might be Chinese Canadian.

30:50

It says the Woo Woo: How I survive

30:52

ice hockey, drug raids

30:54

demons and my crazy Chinese family

30:56

by Lindsay Wong. And

30:59

I wanted to read it. I really

31:01

did, but the title

31:03

kind of threw me off. And I

31:05

guess, I didn't know why the title threw me off

31:07

until really until our conversation

31:10

today. I think because it comes from such

31:12

a Western lens, like, Hey,

31:14

check out this Chinese concept

31:18

of the woo woo and she

31:20

talks about it as a, like you said, the devil,

31:22

like how I survived it, how

31:24

I survived demons and my crazy

31:27

Chinese family. And you know, of course

31:29

I'm judging the book by its cover. I

31:32

don't actually know how, whether her stance

31:35

is on being pro or

31:37

anti woo-hoo. So,

31:39

um, you know, for those who have read

31:41

the book, feel free to let us know.

31:43

But there's like

31:45

negative connotations, just,

31:48

just based off of the title from what it sounds

31:50

like. And then you you had, you didn't

31:52

you didn't vibe with that kind of energy

31:54

that like negativity.

31:56

Yeah. Like I definitely didn't want

31:58

to just criticize.

32:00

Like we already don't have that many books

32:03

written by women of color and women

32:05

of Chinese descent and with

32:07

that like, you know, that sounds

32:09

like people we know. Right. So I

32:12

was like, oh, but the title just kept throwing me off.

32:14

Like I've already bought the book. I just cannot

32:17

open it because I'm scared about what it's

32:19

going to say. I'm scared that it's going to be very

32:21

anti Chinese.

32:23

I would say, give it a chance and see what happens.

32:25

I will say the word "woo woo",

32:27

I don't know how it surface in the west

32:30

as an English word, but it's,

32:32

it's an ancient word in Chinese. Like

32:34

if you think about like woo por like,

32:37

woo is... it is

32:39

discussing that intersection

32:42

of shamanism, witchcraft,

32:44

sorcery, occultic practice.

32:47

Like that, that word "woo" is

32:49

magic. So I don't know if it relates

32:51

to the word Woo Woo in English,

32:54

but, but woo has existed forever.

32:57

And I think the reason why

32:59

my work has been... like

33:01

my personal work. And then of course it

33:04

translates into my, my,

33:06

uh, my brand's work, is

33:08

that when we can return to

33:11

our roots, particularly

33:14

folk practices and sister practices

33:16

and customs, um, in the context

33:19

of magic and the context of spirituality,

33:21

it is an act of decolonizing

33:25

because then you start saying like, I

33:27

am Chinese, and

33:30

this is what we do, what we did

33:32

or what we do. And

33:34

it is it's, it's being more visible.

33:37

Like at least it certainly was that way for me.

33:39

Um, especially when I first started my business where

33:41

honestly, every single

33:44

spiritual teacher or healer out there

33:46

was practicing yoga. And I

33:49

don't think Not even one of them was actually

33:51

from Indian descent. Like, like it's just

33:53

like, okay, so a bunch of people are practicing yoga. A bunch of

33:56

white people practicing yoga, um,

33:58

and waving, you know, crystal clusters

34:01

around. It had an aesthetic, right?

34:03

Like, and it was all like people in their twenties. So it

34:05

was just like, okay, well wellness means

34:07

you must be young, which to me is

34:10

just reinforcing age-ism

34:12

and all the things

34:15

that we see problematic in the fashion industry,

34:17

how you must be skinny, you have, it must be like,

34:19

you know, like all these things. And

34:21

when we decolonize, we naturally

34:24

wind up asking that question

34:27

of, do I need permission and realizing

34:29

I don't need permission because that concept

34:31

permission is rooted in enslavement.

34:33

Like what, like, fuck, I can't make a decision

34:36

for myself? I need to ask so-and-so?

34:39

Like, I need to submit a paper to

34:41

the establishment and get approval

34:44

or whatever it is. Right. Like it's like,

34:46

or I needs to submit it to a man? That

34:49

that equals ownership. Like I

34:51

am somebody's property. But when you realize

34:54

that you're no one's property and that you're

34:56

no one's slave, that

34:58

idea of permission is

35:01

all of a sudden, no longer part of the conversation.

35:04

Dang. I want to take back that word

35:08

I mean, I wrote, I wrote it down on

35:10

paper cause I was like, I love how you're using the word permission

35:13

because it's like, it reveals so

35:15

much or reveals just how much we have

35:18

been colonized and indoctrinated.

35:20

And how much we don't have

35:23

the freedom of choice to practice

35:25

in the way that we want to practice. To live

35:28

the way that we want to live, to do the

35:30

things that we want to do in our own way.

35:32

Totally. And you know, I've I've

35:34

looked at. China so many

35:36

times I've I've I don't know about you, but

35:38

it just sort of like, what were the conditions

35:41

that led to the cultural revolution? What

35:43

were the conditions that led to communism?

35:46

like it's, you know, one can see it if

35:48

one starts noticing. And it was because

35:50

there was that abuse

35:53

of freedom that led the

35:55

whole country to crumble and

35:57

resurface as nobody has

35:59

freedom anymore. And I know what I said

36:02

is very, very, um, what's

36:04

the word? Uh, probably

36:07

controversial, you

36:09

know, because one, cause one can

36:11

say is, is it's a freedom

36:13

to hurt people, real freedom.

36:15

Like it's, you know, like it's I

36:17

get it. and really

36:19

what, what the cultural revolution was a reaction

36:22

to was a lot of people were on the top

36:24

where very few people are on the top and they

36:26

were abusing their freedoms. and they, they

36:29

didn't look out and you

36:31

know, there was a lot of, corruption and a lot

36:33

of nepotism and a lot

36:36

of, uh, a lot of, you know, a lot

36:38

of pain for people who weren't

36:40

in those inner circles of power.

36:43

And so the cultural revolution was a reaction.

36:45

And it was a natural one.

36:48

and yet it gave birth to a whole

36:50

other political system, which also has

36:52

its issues too, that we know today. And like

36:54

I said, it's, you know, even saying this

36:56

out loud, is it's,

36:59

it could potentially be something

37:01

that's going to arise, a strong reaction from for

37:03

certain listeners. Because I know that

37:05

I have my bias of being Taiwanese.

37:08

Um, yet I also

37:10

see it happening and here in

37:12

the west, it's like, if this continues,

37:15

we are heading in the same direction,

37:17

we're already on our way there.

37:20

So it's. But you

37:22

know, we, we, that, that might have to be a

37:24

different episode altogether, um,

37:27

because is, is rationing food and,

37:29

you know, is, is that the best way of handling things?

37:31

I don't know.

37:33

I will say though, as someone who's, who has

37:35

become really familiar with it, that history

37:38

is that most people who quote

37:40

unquote, I get offended by are

37:42

people who haven't actually done their research,

37:44

but have an opinion on it. I

37:46

am not offended by what you said. I think what

37:49

you said is absolutely true. And I agree with

37:51

that a hundred percent, you know, I

37:53

guess another lesson from that is like, Hey,

37:56

which is which I, I, am a hypocrite because

37:58

I just did that with the book. You know, I judged

38:00

the book, what did I actually do my own research?

38:04

So, you know, uh, do what I

38:06

say, know what I do.

38:07

When you call yourself out, you know,

38:10

Yeah.

38:11

I think so we touched upon like the

38:13

cultural revolution and how that's robbed

38:16

people who live in China from

38:18

being in tuned with their culture. Like that's, that's

38:20

fucking what the cultural revolution means.

38:22

Like you take away. Okay. So

38:25

it's been robbed and, and the people.

38:28

Who first experienced that firsthand,

38:30

basically our parents' generation, right?

38:32

That has a trickle effect down to us, whether

38:34

or not I think whether or not they're they live

38:36

in China or, or they have come

38:39

here. I think there has there's, there's a trickle

38:41

effect down to the next generation of what

38:43

the cultural revolution has done in

38:45

ways. And what I mean by that is like

38:47

ripping us away from

38:50

understanding our own cultures, whether it's practices,

38:52

whether it's books, whether it's knowledge, whatever

38:54

it is. And then we also talked about how

38:57

colonialism did the same thing. They

39:00

shamed and demonized other practices

39:03

that they are not familiar with by calling

39:05

it witchcraft by, by associating

39:08

it with the devil like evil things, right?

39:10

Like this is, this is not something

39:12

that we talk about or do know?

39:14

We're even just like identifying

39:17

or pushing a witchcraft into

39:19

the category of quote unquote

39:21

bad

39:22

exactly. Yeah. Like I think

39:24

the term is accurate witchcraft

39:26

it's it's true, but it doesn't mean

39:29

bad.

39:29

Yeah. Because in history, like witchcraft

39:32

was something that women did to empower

39:34

themselves. And, of course men were like,

39:36

nip numbness. We don't like, that That's

39:39

bad. Let's burn you at the stake.

39:41

And, and like, think

39:42

Yeah.

39:42

the other things that has also

39:45

been deemed as bad.

39:47

That really shouldn't be like racism.

39:49

You know, we're gonna go way

39:51

back, not even way back, like 50

39:54

years back, if you are a different color, that's

39:56

bad. And so people try to lighten their skin,

39:58

et cetera. If you are a certain body

40:01

size, well that's bad. And

40:03

so then diet culture happens. And

40:05

if you practice witchcraft well, that's

40:07

bad. So like all

40:10

of these things is, is really a control

40:13

of culture. Of controlling

40:16

us as women, as

40:18

people of color, as people who are just

40:20

non Eurocentric

40:23

Christians. And,

40:25

and that's a way that they are taking

40:27

away our freedom and our, our

40:30

way to express our own cultures.

40:32

And I think that that is, I don't know,

40:34

like, I don't know what I think. I it's just

40:36

sad. Right? Like both the cultural revolution

40:39

and colonialism has

40:41

very similar effects in

40:43

terms of the harm that it has caused

40:46

us and everybody else around us.

40:48

yeah,

40:49

I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm just expressing

40:51

my thoughts and feelings.

40:53

yeah, I was going to say, what you're saying

40:55

is basically fact doesn't mean that we have a solution,

40:58

but, um, yeah, only thing you can do

41:00

is really just keep talking about it. This,

41:03

this is so funny. Like we were expecting

41:05

to learn all this stuff about spirituality

41:07

and someone is, now we're

41:09

talking about,

41:11

About politics. you know, why? Because

41:13

spirituality is. And

41:15

because politics is informed

41:17

by spirituality, people who start wars,

41:20

they usually blame it. Well, they don't blame

41:22

it. They justify it because God

41:25

said so.

41:25

right.

41:26

Right. So, So, that's why

41:28

we keep on go or we, I

41:30

do it too. I find everything goes

41:33

back to politics because spirituality

41:35

and politics are fairly interchangeable.

41:48

Do you tell us a little bit more about dreams? I'm curious.

41:50

Yeah. I'm not, I know Kristy is dying

41:52

to ask you, how do I have more lucid

41:55

dreams? Cause I, I love

41:57

my dreams. Like they're so lucid and

41:59

for me it feels like I'm filing shit away for

42:01

the future. Um, but Chris

42:03

is always like, what, what? Yeah, so.

42:06

I would say, okay, well, first of all,

42:08

you know, I've never done this on a podcast before I,

42:11

I did record an

42:13

entire podcast episode about and

42:15

dream practices on another one. It's

42:17

called woo. New talking about woo

42:19

it's. So funny. W O O and

42:21

then K N E w um,

42:24

you can access it through

42:26

my website. I also talk about

42:28

it in an article that I did with goop,

42:31

um, and same thing. You could

42:33

access it through my press and podcast

42:35

section on my website and just click on

42:37

the goop, uh, photo. Um,

42:40

and that would take you to the article, but

42:42

just so that we can talk about it here,

42:45

I would say it's really important

42:47

to view your dream. As

42:51

your allies like

42:53

to view that medium as

42:55

a friend or a group of friends

42:58

and begin. Um,

43:00

the idea of going to sleep as

43:02

you would, when you're getting ready to meet your

43:05

friends. So I typically shower

43:07

before I see my friends and make sure I have

43:09

good breath. So, you know, hygiene is important,

43:12

which means if you're thinking, thinking, thinking,

43:14

doing, doing, doing, watching Netflix to

43:16

write to the minute that you go to bed, you're

43:19

not going to have a really clean conversation

43:22

in your dream. So making sure that dream

43:24

hygiene there is isn't there. Cause you're,

43:26

you're going to be meeting with friends second,

43:28

have an intention. Like why are you meeting

43:31

with your friends? You're going to go for a jog together. Are

43:33

you going to go for lunch? Are you going to, you

43:35

know, gossip about someone have

43:38

that intention there? Just kidding what

43:40

the last one, but you know what I mean? And

43:44

then, yeah. And

43:46

then go go to bed. You know, that

43:48

intention is important because essentially you're casting

43:51

that dreams. So when you're

43:53

in your dream, then you can be

43:55

conscious whether if it is, you're trying

43:57

to sort out something that's been bothering

43:59

you, or you want to maybe connect with

44:01

an ancestor. Um, and

44:04

it really does work when you go in with that,

44:06

that hygiene in place and that intention,

44:09

um, and it doesn't have to be necessarily for

44:12

the intention, dreaming. It could be for the intention, any

44:14

type of thing that you would like to see

44:16

experience, or maybe help support

44:19

like a resolution towards, in a dream.

44:22

Um, but yeah, that really helps. And sometimes,

44:24

you know, you can either say it or you can just write

44:26

it on a sheet of paper, and then

44:28

maybe place it under your pillow or something,

44:31

or next to your bed, um, and then go

44:33

to sleep. And then there's some allies that are really

44:35

helpful. Some plant allies. I. I'd

44:37

like to work with mugwort. which of course

44:40

is, you know, part of our culture. It's

44:42

part of many cultures, actually. There's many

44:44

different types of mugwort that exist. there

44:46

there's one key, one that exists

44:48

sort of in, you know, are. from

44:50

a culture perspective is a mugwort

44:53

that is often found in like moxa

44:55

or, other forms of, TCM

44:58

based practices. But, but yeah, McGuire, it's really

45:00

great. you can make it, you know, like, uh,

45:02

you don't have to make a strong tea, but you can make, uh, like

45:05

a herbal tea with either dried

45:07

or fresh mugwort. And have a sit

45:09

before bed and actually talk

45:11

to the tea, talk to before

45:13

going to bed with the same idea. So you've, you've

45:16

done your hygiene. You've,

45:18

you know, speak with her with that

45:20

intention and then ask her to. Almost

45:23

behave like an interpreter

45:25

between the dream itself and you,

45:28

or if it's not interpreter kind of like a bridge,

45:30

like she'll be a bit of that conduit

45:33

that, that mediator, uh, really,

45:35

really helpful. And if you're not interested in,

45:37

you know, drinking a tea and of course I have to say

45:39

this just for legality, like consult

45:42

with your herbalists before consuming any plant.

45:45

But if you're not interested in that, I do

45:47

have a mist that's on my website.

45:49

It's called the astral dream MIS that

45:52

contains a high concentration of

45:54

mugwort that you can basically missed your

45:56

bed and miss your aura, and then

45:58

go to sleep with that intention

46:00

of having some form of communication

46:03

with spirits while you're dreaming.

46:06

I did not expect like a, here

46:08

are the steps did great.

46:10

That's so great because I always been

46:13

saying like, okay, I need to stop watching

46:15

my YouTube all the way until the minute

46:17

I pass out, you know, like I have that,

46:19

I want to do that. Right. But then

46:21

every night I don't, every night,

46:23

I'm still back on the YouTube and I'm still

46:26

doing my thing until I pass out. And, and,

46:30

and sometimes that's because I'm

46:32

going through depression and I just need

46:34

that outlet. And I need that extra kick

46:36

of whatever it is. And sometimes

46:38

it's just habit. Right. And, and it doesn't,

46:41

it doesn't ever feel good. It's not like, Ooh,

46:43

I feel so refresh after watching like two

46:45

hours of YouTube.

46:49

Well, well, this is the thing. So

46:51

I mean, want to get science-y there's serotonin

46:53

and dopamine sounds

46:56

like you really liked dopamine and

46:58

they have like that, that dependency

47:00

on dopamine, but really what's going to help,

47:03

with maintaining a

47:05

more regulated brain. Including

47:08

moods regulated moods is

47:10

to really create a

47:13

space more for a serotonin cultivation,

47:15

serotonin takes more time. And

47:17

it's more of that long form of building.

47:20

So build reward systems and

47:22

pleasure systems that is more

47:24

around discipline, such as

47:26

creating some dream hygiene. Cause

47:28

like most of us, like, at least when I

47:30

meet with my friends, like, I'm not

47:32

just like, you know, Going

47:35

from work to friends. Like

47:37

I usually, there's usually a bathroom trip along

47:39

the way where I like clean my teeth

47:42

and like, make sure that I'm, I'm

47:44

presented not from a, a

47:46

shame perspective, but just out of respect

47:48

for the other person or if they're coming over,

47:50

which maybe it's not happening so much right now,

47:53

still as we're opening up from COVID. But

47:55

at least before you clean your house,

47:57

right? Like you, like, you clean your home and

47:59

like you put out food that is not leftover.

48:01

Do you make new food? Like you, you put your,

48:04

your better foot forward, same

48:06

thing with dreams. And same thing with building

48:08

serotonin.

48:09

I think like all of that stuff that you said,

48:11

you know, making sure you, you dress nice,

48:13

you keep your hygiene, you clean your house.

48:16

That is also comes from like us building

48:18

an environment that feels good for us. Because

48:21

I want to engage with my friends. I'm going to create

48:23

a space and an environment where they feel

48:25

good and I feel good so that we can all have a good

48:27

time. And I think you're totally right.

48:29

I think there's a lot of folks who don't do

48:31

enough of that before their bedtime

48:34

ritual and myself included. And I

48:36

am so much more motivated now.

48:38

Yeah, it's investing in you and it's investing

48:41

in a relationship with the unseen

48:43

Holy shit. That's so, That's

48:45

Yeah. And, you know, like

48:47

for those of us who are obsessed with Sage,

48:49

you now have a woman of color to support

48:52

rather than Sage. So there you go.

48:55

And that's that's me also.

49:00

I have too much Sage. Oh

49:03

my goodness. Okay. I do want to wrap up for

49:05

our conversation today. How are you feeling Mimi?

49:07

I'm feeling great. I, I loved how,

49:09

yeah. I loved how, we just chatted and

49:12

we, we covered a lot.

49:13

I think so too. I never would have

49:15

expected again, that we would talk about

49:17

colonialism and the cultural revolution

49:20

and the social justice

49:22

and political aspects of things.

49:24

And feel like,

49:27

I, feel like, I'm ready and I want to

49:29

embrace my own culture and my roots

49:31

and my own spirituality a lot more after

49:33

this conversation. So thank you so much, maybe.

49:36

I am so thrilled to hear that.

49:39

Aw, you guys.

49:44

Come into the mush with us, feel, feel

49:48

the things. I do want to ask you one

49:50

more question for our listeners. If

49:53

anyone of you, poop, troops felt similar

49:55

that you want to open up and be

49:57

more in touch with your own spirituality side. Any,

50:00

any tips for our listeners on how

50:02

they can start that practice.

50:04

Returned to food. I would say what

50:06

your parents, what your grandparents, what

50:08

your great, great, what your great grandparents

50:11

ate. food carries very

50:13

healing vibrations, and

50:16

if you're open to it, uh, they

50:18

have their own voices to the

50:20

dishes. So that's number one. I

50:22

talked about the dreams already. Yeah.

50:24

And work with folks that

50:27

have done this kind of work. So they

50:29

know what that terrain looks like. Um,

50:31

you know, I never make sense for

50:33

someone to let's say, learn Chinese astrology

50:35

from a white person. Like really,

50:39

you think that's a good idea. I don't.

50:42

I don't want to shit on people even like TMC.

50:44

I,

50:45

I have very strong opinions.

50:48

I will not go to

50:50

someone who is not a Chinese lineage,

50:53

for acupuncture or any

50:55

type of, you know, traditional Chinese herbalism. It

50:57

just doesn't make sense.

50:58

I tried it, it, it didn't, it,

51:01

it, felt different if I go to

51:04

TMC and I need to, you know,

51:06

get some herbs and like make some tea. Right. I'm

51:08

going to the 70 year old

51:10

grandma, grandpa

51:12

totally, exactly. And

51:14

you know, you really notice a difference, right? Like

51:16

if I go to one of those like clinics

51:19

that have, you know, orchids in the foyer

51:22

and beautiful spa music playing,

51:25

and then I go in and the doctor

51:27

might feel my pulse might, and

51:29

then they ask me. Like 12 questions.

51:32

Whereas I go to mine, she doesn't

51:34

ask me any questions. She tells me to stick

51:37

out my tongue and she feels my pulse

51:39

and she knows everything. She needs to know. She

51:41

doesn't ask questions, barely talks to me,

51:43

but she knows exactly what to do. Well.

51:54

I mean, the body is intuitive and they

51:56

know that they know

51:58

that it's not only intuitive, but

52:01

there's records in our pulse

52:03

there's records. Like w this is several

52:05

years ago now I was traveling to visit

52:07

family in Taiwan. And

52:09

I went to a TCM doctor there and

52:12

very, very old man, um,

52:14

spoke very thick Taiwanese, and

52:17

I don't speak Taiwanese but I understand how he needs,

52:19

but it was so thick that it was just a little bit

52:21

hard to understand. He felt my pulse.

52:23

And he said right away, he said you

52:25

were born through a C-section. You

52:27

have gut issues? Like I was

52:30

like, like, how

52:32

on earth? I'm see anything.

52:35

I swore he was psychic. But the thing is, this

52:37

is when art and science or

52:41

magic and science are the same.

52:43

Wow. Wait, is that, is that a thing?

52:46

If you're born through C-section you have

52:48

gut issues? Cause I have gut issues and I was

52:50

born through

52:50

Yeah. Well, supposedly it later on, I

52:52

actually did some research on this it's because

52:55

if you were born through C-section oftentimes

52:57

the mother's given antibiotics

53:00

um,

53:02

the

53:03

colonies that is in your own gut

53:05

afterwards. Yeah. And because you're also

53:07

not passing through the vaginal canal, you're

53:09

also not being exposed as too many

53:12

bacteria cultures through the vaginal canal

53:14

as, you know? Yeah. So you basically

53:16

missed out on the bacterial

53:19

exposure through vagina.

53:20

yeah. So that's the science and the art is

53:22

putting your finger on a random person

53:26

in a person's paws and be like, you

53:28

ever have a C-section and you have gut issues.

53:30

Yeah.

53:31

Totally. I mean, I was just so

53:33

blown away because, and the

53:35

fact that they can feel and hear the nuances,

53:38

and that's the kind of listening I'm talking about. It's

53:40

not like a doctor hears things

53:43

in that literal very obvious

53:45

way. Same thing with spirit communication. It's

53:47

very subtle.

53:48

Yeah.

53:49

the minute you say, I don't think that was

53:51

real. It's gone.

53:52

Mm.

53:52

You have to say, I'm going to trust

53:55

that even though it was just a faint

53:57

whisper.

53:58

So I started doing that. I started having doubts

54:00

and then I started to not feel as

54:02

much things anymore. And I think that's because

54:05

I study science, I

54:07

am a dietitan

54:09

I went through, I did the

54:12

white people, university stuff, you

54:14

know, and, and I started having

54:16

sort of having the doubts and I

54:19

feel, I feel like that made me me

54:21

misaligned with a part of my

54:24

body. And through this conversation

54:26

today, I think I want to pay more attention

54:28

to those, those things again, and be more accepting

54:31

and be more open about that. I do want to put out

54:33

a little caveat for people who have went

54:35

through a C-section have gone through a C-section.

54:38

This is no shame for people who have gone through a C-section.

54:40

Okay. Don't feel bad. Like

54:42

this is you, you freaking made

54:44

a human in your body. And so

54:47

you want to bring it out to this world in the safest,

54:49

most possible way. And sometimes

54:51

a C-section is what you have to do to do that,

54:54

to protect yourself and your child.

54:55

I mean, I'm sure angie and I, we can both confirm

54:58

that that was the only way for us to be

55:00

born given the circumstances, right?

55:03

Mimi, thank you so much for hanging

55:05

out with us and sharing your wisdom. And

55:08

I just feel like I talk so much. so

55:11

Oh, good, good,

55:12

where can our listeners find You

55:14

You can find me on my website, which is shop

55:17

ceremony.com. Ceremony

55:19

is spelled with an I E at

55:21

the end. They can also find me on same

55:23

handle shop ceremony and

55:26

if you go onto my website, there's usually

55:29

sort of a list of upcoming and offerings

55:32

and so forth, but there's a fair amount of content.

55:34

You know, my monthly magazine, there's

55:36

a blog. and yeah, like extensive

55:38

information and access to other

55:40

podcasts. I've been on

55:42

Lots of good stuff. So we will link all of those

55:44

in the show notes, including the

55:47

goop article that you had mentioned, as

55:50

well as the who knew

55:52

yes. The wound new podcast

55:54

episode. So we'll link all of that for you guys to

55:56

listen thank you again.

55:58

Thank you for having me.