0:00

it's funny that you're kind of like, you don't need to go to therapy.

0:02

Like you can just look on the internet. And I was like, Or you could just

0:04

listen to this podcast,

0:31

welcome back to another episode of Shit We Don't

0:33

Tell Mom. This is Christy.

0:35

this is Angie.

0:36

We have Vincci Tsui who's joining

0:38

us today, and she is a 1.5

0:41

generation Hong Kong Chinese Canadian,

0:43

who's living in Calgary. She's mostly

0:45

known for her work as a dietician and certified

0:48

intuitive eating counselor. I

0:50

am a secretly not so secret,

0:52

big fan of her work. I've been following

0:55

her stuff for like years, so

0:57

I'm kind of basically fangirling right

0:59

now. But I'm gonna put that

1:01

aside because today we're gonna be talking

1:03

about breaking the generational cycle

1:05

of Asian parenting. So

1:08

welcome to the Chauvin.

1:10

Thank you so much for having me, You

1:13

summarized so Well, and now I'm like

1:15

blushing cuz I didn't realize this was

1:17

a fangirl moment. This wasn't

1:20

part of the agreed upon introduction.

1:23

This whole time when we've been like emailing

1:26

each other, I keep telling Angie

1:28

to to do the emailing because

1:30

I'm like, I'm gonna freak out. I'm gonna like

1:33

get all fan girly and like weird

1:35

about things. So please candle all

1:37

the communications, and

1:42

I just lurk in the background. But anyways,

1:45

welcome, welcome.

1:46

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.

1:47

Yeah, Christie's really good at that. She's always

1:49

the summarizer of our episodes,

1:52

it's a, it's a motivational interviewing skill.

1:58

Oh really? I had no idea. Oh

2:01

my

2:01

Yeah. It's a, it's a counseling skill. Yeah.

2:04

The secrets have.

2:08

Well, and it's funny because like speaking

2:10

of counseling skills, like it's

2:12

really something that I've had to learn

2:15

as a dietitian. Like it wasn't something that

2:17

came naturally to me. and

2:19

I have found that, yeah, like sometimes,

2:23

not all the time, sometimes leaning on those

2:25

skills, like in parenting has been

2:27

super helpful. I have a three year old

2:30

daughter. Her name is Cassia.

2:32

Cass? Yeah. That's so cute. That's a good

2:34

name.

2:35

I actually used to

2:38

babysit someone with that name.

2:40

but, what I like about it is it's

2:42

like unique, but it's not something

2:44

that you can't pronounce.

2:46

Like my name,

2:49

Okay. I

2:51

think that is like very

2:54

great of you to consider because growing

2:57

up, I didn't grow up with the name Christie. I grew

2:59

up with my Chinese name, which is Winan.

3:02

And that was always

3:04

something I thought about. I'm

3:06

like, when I have kids, when I was younger,

3:08

I wanted kids. Now not so much, but when

3:10

I was younger, I'm like, Oh my gosh. I think

3:12

about what their names are gonna be. I think about

3:14

their birthdays, like, are they gonna fall into

3:17

the school year so that they get celebrated during

3:19

school? My birthday's very close to Halloween

3:21

and I hated it because I always get overshadowed

3:24

by Halloween

3:26

Part of Cass's name too, like,

3:28

so Cassia is actually like,

3:30

a plant and that they use it

3:32

as like a substitute for cinnamon.

3:35

So I think like, technically, like most

3:37

of the cinnamon that we get in stores is not actually

3:39

cinnamon. It's like it is cassia.

3:42

So, yeah. So that's part of it too.

3:44

I think that's, That's Chinese

3:46

cinnamon,

3:48

Mm, mm-hmm. sort of. And, and

3:50

so part of the meaning there too,

3:52

I was like, Well, if you want to know the origin

3:55

of Cass's name. so yeah, so

3:57

Cassia like in Chinese, it's,

3:59

Y White or that's Cantonese. And

4:02

so the word white is also a character

4:04

that's in my dad's name and

4:06

in my husband. So my husband,

4:09

his dad is Chinese and his mom

4:11

is Caucasian. So his dad's

4:13

name like, also has the word tree

4:15

in it. So I thought it was also like kind

4:18

of a connection there, which is part of the reason why

4:20

I chose Cassia. Yeah,

4:22

This is so poetic,

4:24

Yeah. I love it.

4:25

there's so many layers and meaning

4:27

to this. I'm just like floored.

4:29

Here. I am thinking about like all

4:32

these superficial things.

4:34

Like birthday parties and

4:36

Yeah.

4:37

No, I love that. That's, that's really meaningful

4:40

and I like that you. are integrating

4:43

like all the heritage from

4:46

your family and putting it into your daughter

4:48

because you know she's a result of all of that.

4:50

Cassia does have a Chinese name and

4:52

my parents hate it. So

4:56

when it first came to naming Cassia,

4:58

like giving her, Well, I, well, obviously,

5:01

I asked my parents like, Do you have any ideas

5:03

for Chinese names? And they were like,

5:05

Well, what's her English name going to be

5:07

like, We'll, just find a name. That sounds like it. Because

5:09

that's almost like the backward process of how

5:12

they figured out Vinci was like, They

5:14

had my Chinese name first, which is Wing

5:16

Z. And then they like just mashed some

5:18

letters together that sounded like that,

5:20

like in their head. And that's how it worked for all

5:23

my siblings names as well. And I was like, No,

5:25

you are not going to like just come up with a Chinese

5:28

name that sounds like her English name. Like that

5:30

is not gonna be good. So I

5:32

ended up coming up with her Chinese

5:34

name, which is, seeing y

5:36

which like scene means compassionate

5:38

and yang means brave. and my parents

5:41

hate it, I think because y

5:43

sort of codes male

5:45

and it's also in, or like, it's an

5:47

older like generation name.

5:50

yeah, they hate it. It's so funny. they

5:53

refuse to call her a Chinese name. They

5:56

just call her Cass

5:59

I love, I love that. And I love that you

6:01

named your daughter yourself.

6:03

Yeah, it's, it's not as common

6:06

in Chinese, but like what is so

6:08

wild to me though, like speaking of

6:10

like Chinese names, is that

6:13

I'm part of like a bunch of like Cantonese,

6:16

like Facebook groups, cuz I'm dorky

6:18

like that. And there are so many

6:20

people in those groups who are

6:22

like, I'm trying to name my kid, like,

6:24

help me come up with names with my kid. I was like, why

6:26

would you outsource that to a

6:29

Facebook group? every time I have like

6:31

a standard reply that's like, Talk

6:34

to your family. Even though like, in

6:36

my experience, my family was completely unhelpful,

6:39

okay. Side note, I am also

6:41

part of these catches. I'm, I might not

6:44

be in the same one as yours because I haven't

6:46

seen these. I'm in some like, extra

6:49

niche one cuz my family is

6:51

from, from the village,

6:53

or,

6:55

from the village.

6:56

Going back to your family and

6:58

your parents growing up, what was, what

7:00

was your relationship like with them?

7:03

I mean, so I

7:05

think like part of The reason why I pitched

7:07

this episode was because

7:10

like listening to your guys' interview

7:12

on, what kind of Asian are you?

7:14

And you're both like, we both have complicated

7:16

relationship with our moms. And I was like, Me

7:19

too, My, Yeah. Yeah.

7:21

Like I, I would describe it as complicated

7:24

and, my dad, like,

7:26

he still has his company in

7:28

Hong Kong. Like, so growing up, like

7:30

throughout my entire life, he's always just kind of

7:32

flown back and forth between Calgary and

7:34

Hong Kong. even right now, like with

7:37

the Pandemic, I haven't seen him for

7:40

almost three years

7:42

and like in person and

7:45

he's finally coming back,

7:47

next month, like, which

7:49

is, which was like, yeah. The best

7:51

news ever. But, so yeah,

7:53

so I, I would say like my relationship

7:55

with my parents was never super close.

7:58

The interesting thing was always

8:00

that like, I never knew

8:03

whether this was like an Asian

8:05

thing or whether this was like a, like

8:07

my family thing because, My family,

8:10

especially my mom's side. We

8:12

have a good ha like

8:14

a good number of cousins. I'm like trying

8:16

to count in my head like how many of us there are.

8:18

I think there are six

8:21

of us. I'm like trying to do

8:23

the math really fast so that I, I'm not like missing

8:25

anyone. Yeah. So I think there are six of us on my mom's

8:27

side of the family, like as cousins. And

8:29

so like, you know, like when we would have family

8:31

dinners, like as cousins, we

8:33

would always just kind of like, you know,

8:36

talk about family gossip

8:38

and it was always just kind of like, okay, like is

8:40

this just something that's like our family

8:42

or is this like, you know, like an Asian

8:45

thing? and I would never know so.

8:49

Yeah, so like, I guess

8:51

to go back to answering your question,

8:53

I think we, you sort

8:56

of see stuff,

8:58

especially I would say like more

9:00

in Western media where, you

9:03

know, people say like, My mom is my best

9:05

friend, or I can tell my mom anything.

9:07

And like, that is not the kind

9:09

of relationship that I have with my mom

9:12

at all.

9:13

I think especially because, you know, we're kids,

9:15

we don't like talk about our families to our friends.

9:18

And I think it's great that, you

9:20

know, you had your cousins to at least bond

9:22

over this and was like, Is this, is this just

9:25

our family that's messed up? Like, is it,

9:27

why are we so dysfunctional? Like it

9:29

can't be Maybe

9:31

it's just us. Cause then the representation that we

9:33

see would be like things in the media or things,

9:36

you know, on TV shows, blah, blah, blah. And, and

9:39

I don't know about you, but I could never relate.

9:42

You know, I just didn't get it. And

9:44

the, the whole best friend thing, that was

9:47

not something I thought that was the most fringiest

9:49

thing. Every time I see it on tv, like, you know,

9:51

the mom and the daughters would link arms

9:54

and skip along in the

9:56

mall with their shopping bags and they have like

9:58

a spa day. And I'm like, what the, that

10:00

sounds no. Why

10:03

would you want us do that? Why

10:07

would mom even agree to that? Like

10:09

it would be horrible. All she'll talk about

10:11

is like how expensive the thing is or

10:13

you know, have some sort of a critique on

10:16

the clothing choices, whatever.

10:19

And I, for me, I felt

10:21

like it wasn't until like the age

10:23

of the internet and memes

10:25

and Instagram where I start seeing

10:28

other people post things that

10:30

I'm like, Hey, that I relate to that talking

10:33

about, and we'll get stereotypical here

10:35

like the tiger mom trope, right?

10:38

Mm-hmm.

10:38

I think Asian traits was one of those,

10:40

viral thing that kind of

10:42

started the, a lot of this movement.

10:45

Like, I remember looking

10:48

at it, I'm like, How come we've never had anything

10:50

like this before? Like I think that was why

10:53

it was so magical. It wasn't just like, it

10:55

wasn't just Australia, cuz it started

10:57

in Australia, but it wasn't just in Australia. It like

10:59

came over here. It was so prolific

11:01

around the world because it was something we never

11:03

had and that's why it was so popular. And

11:05

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

11:06

were so many offshoots from that. I

11:09

actually have a really funny story so I had

11:11

a friend from high school. She is

11:13

like third generation Chinese.

11:16

her mom is very whitewashed, so

11:18

I remember like going to their house, having

11:20

dinner. but it was kind of cool because her mom

11:22

will like, serve the soup at the beginning. You know, like the

11:24

Chinese, like medicinal soup. Some of

11:26

the dishes will be like, like beef

11:28

pasta, like beef ballies kind of thing.

11:31

But And I was like, this is so strange.

11:33

Like, but I love it. don't

11:35

call me Mrs. Won. Call me Irene. So

11:38

she was the first like adult

11:40

level authority figure that

11:42

I had ever called by first name. And it

11:44

was just like such a weird feeling. And

11:47

one time I was out with my mom grocery

11:49

shopping, and we bumped into

11:51

Irene and she was like, Angie,

11:53

how are you? And like, she comes over to me

11:56

with like her arms. So of course I give her a hug

11:58

and like I'm like, Oh, this is my mom, a mom,

12:01

this is like my friend's mom, blah, blah,

12:03

blah. And then she leaves and my mom's like,

12:05

She didn't say at the time, but she brought it up

12:08

at another time. Later on she was telling

12:10

somebody else about how horrible I am because I don't

12:12

hug her. She's like, She

12:15

will hug other people's moms,

12:17

but she won't hug her own mom. I

12:19

still can't hug like

12:21

I'm now 31. And I, and that

12:24

happened when I was like 16 It's

12:26

been like 15 years that I still cannot

12:29

hug my mom, and I don't know what

12:31

it is. So my mom, she's from China. She

12:33

grew up in China. She immigrated here and

12:36

I came here when I was nine years old and

12:38

she actually went into early childhood education.

12:41

So because of that, she was able to learn a lot

12:43

of like the western way of. Being

12:46

with children and raising children, stuff

12:48

like that. So she became a lot more open

12:51

minded, a a lot more like, perceptive

12:53

to the Western ways. And she's

12:56

adopted some of those ways. Like she wants to hug

12:58

me, but I told her like,

13:01

That's what she adopted. That's the takeaway.

13:03

Your mom really wants to hug you, which is

13:07

okay, now I still, I give her hugs sometimes,

13:09

like, depending on the context, but it's not like an

13:11

everyday thing, you know what I mean? and my

13:13

justification is that we grew up

13:16

not hugging. Like I

13:19

have never hugged you as a child

13:22

and for me to hug you as like an adult.

13:24

It's just so weird. Like, it, it, it's, it's

13:27

a weird feeling.

13:27

And Vin, do you hug your mom?

13:29

I didn't growing up either, but I

13:31

would say like in later years,

13:34

and I think it started more with my

13:36

dad, like, you know, like dropping

13:38

him off at the airport or like picking him up

13:41

at the airport, like we would hug and

13:43

stuff and like, but it didn't start

13:45

until, I don't know, like

13:47

we were teenagers or possibly adults,

13:49

like, and so yeah, like it, it was definitely

13:52

something that happened later on

13:54

in life, and not when we were

13:57

kids.

13:59

Okay. I'm gonna just insert something here because

14:01

like we're talking about these stories,

14:04

you know, from, from when we were

14:06

younger, so it seems like it's so distant,

14:09

but just a few days ago. My

14:12

mom was telling me about

14:14

her friend and her friend's son.

14:17

Okay. And how

14:19

he would hug his

14:21

mom every day,

14:24

every time they see each other, they would

14:26

hug and he would say, I love

14:28

you, mom, and hug her.

14:31

And every time he has a bad day

14:33

at work, he would rant to her

14:35

and talk to her about it. Cuz she's

14:37

like, I can't, I have

14:39

to put on this front because I see clients,

14:41

but sometimes it's just so frustrating.

14:43

And he will just, you know, go

14:46

home with his mom.

14:48

and and

14:52

I, and, and I'm like, Okay, well why

14:54

are you telling me this story, Mom? Like, what are you implying

14:58

oh, yeah, she's definitely imp pawing something. She's

15:00

definitely like, You should be hugging me every

15:02

day. Or like, I want you to hug

15:04

me every day. But it's weird, right? Like it,

15:06

imagine having to hug your mom

15:09

every single day when you haven't

15:11

done so in like 30 something years.

15:14

I'm like, I love the story. I feel

15:16

so happy for your friend, and I'm

15:18

so happy for the sun. Like,

15:20

Like good on them. It sounds like they

15:22

have a great relationship. Yay.

15:25

Let's move on.

15:26

Vici? Do you hug your daughter

15:28

Yeah. Yeah.

15:32

look at that. We're already breaking the generational

15:34

cycle.

15:35

Yeah,

15:42

I'm curious to know, do you talk to your parents

15:44

about parent.

15:47

Not really. So

15:50

we actually had my daughter in

15:52

daycare like kind of leading up

15:54

to the pandemic, which was very rare because she wasn't

15:57

even one years old then. But,

15:59

you know, since I'm, since I'm like,

16:01

I'm self-employed, I just kind of took

16:03

a shorter maternity leave and,

16:05

and started, going back to work before

16:08

the whole year and,

16:10

So the pandemic started and we pulled her

16:12

out of childcare. And, the arrangement

16:14

that we kind of had was that

16:17

like my in-laws would watch

16:19

her for a few days a week, and then my

16:21

mom would also watch her for a few days a week.

16:23

And I was actually, like nervous

16:26

about having my mom watch her

16:28

because I was like, Ugh. Like, is she going to

16:30

like instill stuff that I

16:33

don't necessarily believe in or,

16:35

yeah. So you like,

16:38

now that I'm saying it out loud,

16:40

it's almost kind of embarrassing, but I think

16:42

like even thinking

16:44

about the way. I

16:47

was parented and, and some of the

16:49

ways that I don't necessarily want

16:51

to repeat that. so no, like

16:53

I feel like it takes

16:56

a lot for me to tell,

16:58

my mom, something like, last

17:01

night even, since my daughter

17:03

like kind of goes to her house once a week,

17:06

I was just like, Hey, like, just wanted to give

17:08

you a heads up. Cassie has a bladder infection

17:10

right now. And like her first

17:13

response was like, how did she get a bladder

17:15

infection? And it was just like, Oh my God.

17:17

Like, I have no

17:19

idea. You know,

17:21

you can feel the like, I can feel the blame

17:24

already like,

17:25

So to answer your question, like, that was

17:27

a very long, way, long, roundabout way. So

17:29

you can edit it if you want for me

17:31

to say like, No, I don't really talk

17:33

about, Yeah. Talk with my parents

17:35

about parenting. because I,

17:38

I don't know if I necessarily

17:41

agree with the way that they parent.

17:44

Yep. And I relate to that because

17:47

I would also be

17:49

nervous to, if I were

17:51

to have a kid, I would feel uncomfortable

17:54

leaving my kid with my mom

17:56

in the same room while I'm not

17:58

there. Because I'm afraid

18:01

that there's gonna be like old school

18:03

thinking or old school mentalities,

18:05

and teachings that might come

18:07

out from her. And then I'm not there

18:09

to, you know, negate that

18:12

or put a boundary to it. I

18:14

can come up with a few things in

18:16

my own, like head for what my

18:19

mom could say, but I'm curious to know, what are

18:21

some of the things that you're afraid your

18:23

mom might say to

18:23

I don't, Yeah, like, I'm trying to

18:26

think of, I think it was, I

18:28

think at the time it was like probably

18:31

stuff around food,

18:34

like being a dietician. Like, you know,

18:36

like is she going to like force her to eat

18:38

all her food, like even if she isn't hungry

18:40

or something like that. And it's

18:42

funny because I

18:45

think it's. I

18:48

think it's been more influenced sort of

18:50

by my in-laws. You know, like

18:53

my in-laws will like drop her off from

18:55

watching her and be like, Oh, you know, today

18:57

at lunch, like Cassia said,

19:00

Oh, I'm not gonna eat this. Like, I want

19:02

something that's healthy. And I'm like,

19:04

Oh my gosh. Like where, where did she

19:06

get this like, healthy, unhealthy messaging

19:08

from? But a again,

19:11

like, you know, and I don't know if it's something

19:13

that comes from my in-laws or I don't

19:15

know if it's something that like came from

19:17

like a YouTube video that she watched or

19:19

whatever, or, or, or

19:22

like once I think I.

19:26

Ate something or finished something and Cassia

19:28

said, Good girl. Or like, but the

19:30

way she says girl is like guru,

19:32

So she's like, Good guru mama, you like

19:34

did this. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like it, you

19:37

know, like finishing your food. Like, you

19:39

know, like I shouldn't be complimenting you for

19:41

like finishing your meal and stuff, but like, that's

19:43

kind of something that she's already picked up on. And

19:45

it's hard because like since she's

19:47

so young, like I think it's easy

19:50

to like laugh it off

19:52

and be like, Oh, you know, she's a little kid.

19:55

Like, but yeah. so

19:57

I don't think it's just my parents,

19:59

but I think it's probably just like

20:01

a lot of like societal beliefs

20:04

in, in general, and I think

20:06

like, going back to maybe like what I might

20:08

have been worried about, it might have been like expectations

20:12

around like certain behavior and stuff

20:14

like that. So, Yeah, but it, but

20:17

I don't know. I think in general it's been

20:19

fine. Like people

20:21

grandparent differently than they parent

20:24

Yeah,

20:25

and also and

20:27

also my sister still lives at home

20:30

and like, she's currently getting her

20:32

degree in education. So like,

20:34

you know, like I know she's

20:36

kind of there too. but, yeah,

20:38

so I, I don't know, like I, so I would say like

20:41

in general, my fears

20:43

have been unfounded.

20:45

and you know, and that Cassie

20:48

has sometimes picked up on some

20:50

of the stuff I don't agree with from other

20:53

places too. mm-hmm.

20:56

I think that's very interesting. and I,

20:59

there's this, phrase that my mom taught me

21:01

in Chinese and the English translation

21:04

is essentially, if you

21:06

raise your children right, then

21:09

you can spoil your grandchildren.

21:14

If you spoiled your children,

21:17

then you have to raise your grandchildren.

21:21

Oh,

21:23

So there's

21:25

definitely a lot of, you know,

21:27

parenting methods that we would agree

21:30

with from our parents. And I think that might be common

21:32

universally, I want to say, I think.

21:34

mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

21:36

just so prolific for our

21:38

culture and there are a

21:40

lot of things we don't agree with. Not

21:42

just in terms of like the era, but also

21:44

just in terms of culture as well. Cuz we

21:47

are so much more integrated into like

21:49

Western society than they are. But

21:53

I think maybe not a but,

21:55

but maybe as a third party it's always

21:57

easier to see the good

21:59

stuff when you're outside. It's like, it

22:02

sounds like you're doing so much

22:04

for your daughter. Like you're, you're, you're really considerate

22:07

of her future. You wanna make sure

22:09

that she's eating right,

22:11

et cetera. And maybe that's also a little

22:13

bit of a reflection of your parents as well.

22:16

I like to think that if

22:18

you have come out as a really good person,

22:21

you can attribute some of that to your parents as well.

22:23

not always, not always. There's definitely, exceptions

22:26

out there, but. Yeah,

22:29

so I just wanna say like it's, I

22:31

mean, as a third person, it's definitely easier

22:35

for me to say than to, to

22:38

actually know what's going on.

22:40

Yeah, and I, and I wouldn't say that I have

22:42

a bad relationship with my parents

22:44

at all. Like I, Yeah, no,

22:46

like, that's not how I would describe it. But I

22:49

would say that it's probably

22:51

like more distant

22:54

than what other people's

22:56

with their parents might be like. Like,

22:59

like I said earlier, like I wouldn't call my

23:01

mom like my best friend or,

23:04

I don't think my parents are necessarily

23:06

the first ones that I would tell,

23:09

like certain things. and other

23:11

things, they are the first ones like, I think they were like

23:13

the first ones to know that I was pregnant, but

23:15

like, but yeah, so like, but

23:17

I would say, yeah, it's, it's not

23:20

as, I don't know, like intimate

23:23

or close, as

23:25

some other people might have.

23:27

and like, I think.

23:30

That is also very common

23:33

amongst like other

23:35

Asian people.

24:27

Yeah. Speaking of that

24:29

and alluding to the memes

24:31

that I was talking about earlier, Vici, you

24:34

had sent us an Instagram post, and

24:37

I'm gonna try my best to describe

24:39

the post to our listeners cause

24:43

we're so good at doing this. Okay, So,

24:46

this sketch, this doodle is

24:48

from Sketchy car. We'll link it in the

24:50

show notes below. So the first

24:53

half of the sketch is

24:55

titled What Asian Parents Want

24:57

for Their Kids. And

24:59

the Laundry list is something that we are very familiar

25:01

with, is to marry, quote unquote, Well

25:04

go to university, have job security,

25:06

have a great house, money, lots

25:09

of money, kids

25:11

of course, and then bracket happiness.

25:15

Now, on the other side of the doodle

25:17

is titled What Asian Kids Want from

25:20

their Parents. Which is

25:22

validation, acknowledgement

25:24

of our traumas. Positive reinforcement

25:26

to hear are the words. I love you to

25:28

hear the words. I'm proud of you being

25:31

accepted and of course having red

25:33

packets for the rest of our lives.

25:36

Just keep that red envelopes coming. So

25:39

Vinci, you sent us this illustration.

25:43

I feel like there's, there's some

25:45

deeper stories behind it. What, what

25:48

are some of your thoughts and

25:50

yeah, what got you sharing this with.

25:52

Well, what was interesting to me about that

25:54

is that like, you know, like the

25:56

comments on it, like so many people are like, I

25:58

relate or whatever. And it's

26:01

tricky be that like

26:03

she did add that line about like

26:05

the red packets because like what

26:07

ends up, I think what ended up

26:09

happening in the comments too was that

26:11

people would be like, Oh yeah, like the red packets

26:14

or whatever. even, and

26:16

not necessarily acknowledging

26:18

like all these other things. And like to

26:21

me it's kind of like, okay, like yes,

26:23

like we as Asian kids

26:26

like want this from our Asian parents.

26:28

So when we become

26:31

parents, like wouldn't

26:35

we want to give those things

26:37

to our kids, If that makes

26:39

sense. and I

26:41

see a lot of parents. Like

26:45

when I look at it, I'm like, yeah, like

26:47

wouldn't you want to give those things to your

26:49

kids? Like, wouldn't you want your kids to feel

26:51

validated or to say I love you to them

26:54

or whatever. and, and,

26:57

and then, and so I'm just kind

26:59

of like, like why

27:01

does this sort of continue

27:04

that we like that we have like generations

27:07

on, generations like still relating

27:09

to these memes. And

27:12

I think there's also like,

27:15

There's also like other people

27:18

who are in our generation who might feel

27:20

like, well, like this

27:23

is what I have to be as

27:25

an Asian parent. Or like this,

27:27

like, I turned out fine. So like

27:29

this, this should work for our kids too. And

27:31

like the example that I have is that recently,

27:34

in one of the groups that I'm

27:36

in there, like someone

27:39

had posted like a video

27:41

and like full disclosure,

27:43

I was actually part of like

27:45

this YouTube channel earlier on

27:47

and I, and I left it like for just cuz

27:50

I was like, busy. But anyway, it's,

27:52

it's like basically like a Cantonese

27:54

talk show. And like this, this

27:56

episode was supposedly about like,

27:59

are we being too, like p politically

28:01

correct in our parenting? Like, are we

28:03

being too soft? And like now

28:05

they can't like stand hardship. And I was

28:07

just like that like,

28:10

How is it a bad thing

28:13

to, you know,

28:15

like not be the one that

28:17

like, puts not to be the one who puts

28:20

your kids through like pain

28:23

or trauma or whatever. Like, to me,

28:25

I feel like we

28:28

have, there are lots of opportunities

28:31

out there in the world

28:33

that, you know, we are going to experience

28:36

pain and hurt and disappointment,

28:38

or our kids are going to ex experience

28:40

pain or hurt or disappointment. Like

28:44

you, Like why

28:46

do you want to be the one who

28:49

contributes to that? Like, why wouldn't

28:51

you want to be a safe haven

28:54

for, like, so

28:56

that your kids will know that they're not

28:59

going to be experiencing that at that at

29:01

home? I mean like, Okay. Like granted,

29:03

like I was so. Angry

29:06

at that like episode description

29:08

that I didn't watch it. I don't know

29:10

if like, I think it's three people on the

29:13

show. I don't know if they all had like differing

29:15

opinions, but like to me, the

29:17

way that, like they described

29:20

it, that this is politically correct

29:22

parenting. Like, it's

29:25

like you've already made your views

29:27

clear and, and

29:30

it's, yeah, and, and, and

29:32

I, and I don't like, and it's like, and

29:35

I, I was just like, I'm not going to like,

29:37

spend energy engaging with this, knowing

29:40

what, you know, like their stance

29:42

already was.

29:43

I could totally see where that connection,

29:45

cuz I would feel the same way because the

29:47

issue is so much more nuanced

29:49

than that for them to be like, Oh, this is politically

29:52

correct and if it's politically

29:54

correct then it's, it's not good

29:56

or whatever. And that

29:58

was one thing that I had actually learned

30:00

in therapy because

30:02

we're so used to, and I mentioned

30:05

this in a previous episode a long time ago, so I

30:07

don't even remember which episode it was, but

30:11

I, my therapist was, is a Chinese

30:13

Canadian as well. So I think, she knew exactly

30:15

where I was coming from and she showed

30:17

me this diagram. It's basically a

30:20

triangle and there are quote

30:22

unquote three systems, three response

30:25

systems that we have. And it's very

30:27

applicable for parenting so there's

30:29

the reward system, so that's

30:31

like the dopamine where

30:34

you do something and you get rewarded.

30:36

So if you wanna relate it back to parenting,

30:38

it's like, okay, if you eat all your

30:41

food, then you're gonna get praised for saying,

30:43

Good girl. Or if you get great,

30:46

if your parents are like, Oh, if you get straight A's, I'm

30:48

gonna buy you an Xbox. This is like

30:50

very dopamine and it's very

30:52

reward based, which is, which

30:55

is fine. It's very, but it's also very

30:57

short term based. And the other one

31:00

is fear based. So that's

31:02

like the fight or flight response system

31:05

where it's a lot

31:07

more scary.

31:09

And we're all very familiar with

31:11

how that could damage a child's.

31:15

The way that they view themselves and maybe self-esteem

31:18

if you're like, well, if you don't get straight A's, then

31:21

you're not gonna get your phone for a

31:23

month. Or like, Oh, you're grounded. Or

31:26

if you don't eat your food, then go to

31:28

your room and blah, blah, blah. Like the negative

31:30

feedback really triggers

31:32

that, fear response. And then you

31:34

respond with things like adrenaline or cortisol

31:37

or stuff like that. And those

31:39

two systems is like, Yeah, that's,

31:42

that's parenting. Like we're so used to that from

31:44

the past generations. But

31:46

there's actually a third one, which I hadn't

31:49

known about. And this, you don't have to go to therapy

31:51

to learn this either. Like all this information is

31:53

available on the internet. but the third one

31:55

is the soothing system. And

31:58

I think the soothing system is what people

32:00

call politically

32:03

correct or whatever, because the

32:05

soothing system, it's basically.

32:07

Let's say your child didn't get straight ass

32:09

and they were expecting themselves to get straight As. The

32:12

soothing system would be like, Well how does that make you

32:14

feel? And this is

32:16

the, you know, this is the soft whatever,

32:18

parenting that I think gen older generations

32:21

like, well that's not gonna work. but soothing system

32:23

is basically teaching your child

32:25

to soothe their own emotions

32:28

and that it's not the end of the world

32:30

if they don't get straight A's. it's not the end

32:32

of the world. They can't finish their food. Like

32:34

the soothing system also is also where they go,

32:36

Okay, well I'm full and I don't

32:38

have to eat everything that's on the

32:40

table, even though somebody else is telling me

32:42

too, because. I

32:45

feel pressure, but I don't need to give into

32:47

this pressure. And that is such

32:49

a thought. That's not just like new to our

32:51

culture, but I think just in general, the

32:53

soothing system isn't really

32:56

used that much in parenting. And

32:58

I think there's a lot of misconception

33:00

that if a parent,

33:02

you know, a millennial parent is using

33:05

the soothing system for their children, it's like, oh, well

33:07

you're teaching them to be soft. You're teaching

33:09

them to be, you know, not be able to handle

33:11

hardship. But I think it's as actually complete

33:14

opposite. You're teaching them to be able

33:16

to connect with their emotions to like

33:18

so themselves through a hardship,

33:21

which, so when they do, encounter

33:23

hardship, then they actually know how to approach

33:25

it. But I think it is very nuanced because

33:28

we're not a hundred percent familiar

33:30

with how to do that yet. Like we, Cause we were never

33:32

taught, so we're kind of like broaching

33:34

the subject for the first time. And,

33:37

and, and you might do it wrong. You might soothe

33:39

them rather. Teaching

33:42

them how to sooth. And I think that's the biggest difference.

33:46

Yeah, that's a great way of explaining it. And it's funny

33:49

that you're kind of like, you don't need to go to therapy. Like you

33:51

can just look on the internet. And I was like, Or you could just listen

33:53

to this podcast,

33:54

Yeah, cause we

33:56

know all about parenting.

34:00

Well, that's why.

34:00

and it's No,

34:02

no, no. Seriously, like I didn't,

34:04

like, I, I

34:07

went like, yeah, I pitched this episode. Like, not

34:09

because I think I'm an expert in parenting in

34:11

any way at all. and maybe

34:13

I should have said this earlier in the episode, but

34:15

more because like, I think

34:18

parenting. Does

34:20

feel, very, I

34:22

don't know if lonely is the right word, but like,

34:25

what's tough I think is because

34:27

like, it feels like,

34:29

well, like anybody could be a

34:31

parent. So like it shouldn't be that hard,

34:34

but it is, and it's wild to me.

34:36

I know this is completely unrelated, but

34:39

like one of the things that I was very

34:41

conscious of not doing

34:44

like professionally was that like

34:46

professionally, like I have zero

34:48

experience with children. Like I've never

34:50

worked in like pediatric nutrition.

34:52

And I was like, Okay, like when I become

34:55

a parent, I'm not gonna be one of those

34:57

dieticians who all of a sudden is

34:59

an expert on like pregnancy, nutrition,

35:02

and then child nutrition because

35:04

there are dieticians like

35:06

that. And it like drives me wild.

35:09

And so I was very conscious of that. And

35:11

so, yeah, like coming onto this show

35:13

and like wanting to talk about parenting

35:15

has been less about like, I'm

35:18

an expert cuz I have zero

35:20

like technical knowledge, but

35:22

more like sharing

35:24

my experiences in hopes that

35:26

perhaps other people who listen to the

35:29

show, like have similar experiences

35:31

and have, you know, maybe like

35:34

they can relate to it and feel

35:36

not so alone or like

35:38

you can even reach out. And so that I don't

35:40

feel so alone. but yeah, like I'm

35:43

definitely not an expert on this at all.

35:45

and I think, you know, talking about parenting and also

35:47

talking about like my parents,

35:50

I think like I do notice

35:52

sometimes too that like

35:54

I will say things and do things and I'm like, ugh.

35:57

Like my mom would've done that

35:59

or said that. And I'm like, No, I'm turning into

36:01

my mom. Yeah. So I think

36:03

you're so right, Angie, that like, this

36:06

is something that's new for

36:10

so many people, like not just from

36:12

a cultural perspective

36:15

or generational perspective. like I,

36:17

I, yeah, like it is a bit of both

36:19

and, and so I think we're all

36:21

just kind of like muddling through

36:23

this together and in

36:26

the moment sometimes it's hard to

36:28

remember, but like,

36:31

you know, like, yeah, we're not

36:33

alone and like, we're not, we're

36:36

probably not going to like scar

36:39

our kids for life, if

36:41

we're, you know, doing the best that we.

36:46

And I just wanna point out, we

36:49

didn't bring you onto the show because

36:51

we were like, Oh my God, I haven't, She's the expert because

36:55

no matter if, you know, whatever role

36:58

we take on, Whether that's being

37:00

a new parent, whether it's, in a

37:02

professional role, whether it's just understanding

37:05

what it's like to be an adult.

37:08

No one really knows what they're doing.

37:11

And I think the best and

37:13

most comforting thing is to know

37:17

that other people also don't know what

37:19

they're doing, but we just all try

37:21

our best. It's not like we're just gonna fuck around, you

37:23

know, but we're all just trying our best

37:26

but it doesn't mean that we're all experts

37:29

in, in this role or

37:31

this title. And

37:34

at the end of the day, it's comforting

37:36

to know that, oh, other people also

37:40

only have a little bit of a clue, and

37:44

that means I'm not messed up. That means

37:46

I'm not inferior. Like we're

37:49

all just trying to figure it out. And

37:51

the more we have these conversations, the more we get to

37:53

realize that that's true. Otherwise,

37:56

it's just we're having these conversations

37:58

in our own heads and that's what

38:00

makes it feel lonely

38:02

And that's why we started the podcast because

38:06

we were having these conversations of, you know,

38:08

doubt and anxiety and depression in

38:10

our own heads we're like, Well, if we talk about

38:12

it, then people will feel less lonely. And

38:15

Vinci, when you said like, sometimes

38:17

like when I'm parenting, like when I'm trying

38:19

to figure out this parenting thing, I feel very lonely

38:21

and I'm like, oh my God. Like

38:24

that's another thing that just needs to be talked

38:27

about. We just need to make it so clear that,

38:29

you know, it's not, it's

38:31

so hard because like, I, I feel like I

38:34

see a lot of, Instagrams with like

38:36

moms and families where they post like the

38:39

best photo that they have or post

38:41

the best memories they have, and it makes you feel

38:43

even more lonely because you're like, That's

38:46

not my, that's not my life. Like,

38:48

that's like maybe like 10% of it.

38:50

And then we forget that that's like 10% for them

38:52

too. So like, these are conversations

38:55

we need to be have. and yeah, we, when

38:57

I said like Vinci, like yourself, I mean like, we don't have

38:59

kids, so we gotta invite somebody to like yourself to

39:02

come on and talk about your experience. And that's something

39:04

I just learned from you is like, parenting

39:06

can be very lonely. And I was like, Wow. I

39:09

had never thought about it like that before.

39:13

Yeah, like, because I think there,

39:16

there are like so many

39:20

pressures out there, or like, especially with

39:22

like the proliferation of like

39:24

mom blogs or like mom influencers.

39:27

There's definitely a lot more in terms

39:29

of like what makes a,

39:31

a. A good mom. and

39:33

like, yeah, just very

39:35

silly things like obviously like being a dietician,

39:38

I'm like more familiar with the food side

39:40

of things, but I'm sure there's like

39:43

other stuff too that like people

39:46

and I have felt pressure around,

39:48

like even, you know, even like I

39:50

was mentioning earlier, that

39:52

like that Cassia has a bladder infection

39:55

right now. I had

39:57

actually missed it for like several days because

39:59

we were all just getting better from Covid

40:02

and, and so it didn't,

40:05

so it took us a while to like finally

40:07

realize that she had a bladder infection

40:09

and then get her to the doctor and start on antibiotics.

40:12

And so it's just been like a,

40:14

like a long, like, it's

40:16

just been a really tough course for

40:18

her. And I've like, felt

40:20

so guilty, like, oh,

40:23

like why didn't I pick it up earlier? Like,

40:25

why didn't I take her to the doctor sooner? And it's

40:27

like, Viji, it's cuz you had covid and you couldn't go

40:29

anywhere. But like, but then recently

40:32

on Twitter, like someone had tweeted,

40:34

you know, like my son was like grabbing

40:36

my stu his stomach all the time and saying

40:38

owie like finally we went to emergency.

40:41

And it turns out like he had something called

40:43

inter subception or something, which I think has

40:45

to do with like, I

40:47

dunno, the organ, like the, like

40:49

the organs internally somehow,

40:52

like, and so like now he's fine and sleeping

40:54

and like the, the replies

40:57

had like so many people being like, Yeah,

40:59

you know, like my kid was sick and I

41:01

didn't know for days. And then

41:03

we finally got them to the doctor and

41:05

like, thank God they're fine. But it was

41:07

like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, like this

41:09

just happened to me. And like in

41:12

a case that's not even as severe

41:14

as interception, but I

41:16

did feel awful, like just kind

41:18

of like, why didn't I realize earlier

41:21

that this was what it was and started her on antibiotics

41:23

sooner. so yeah. So you

41:26

know, like we're all muddling through

41:28

and mm-hmm and we're

41:30

doing the best that we can.

41:33

And I think that's the, the best takeaway

41:35

from today's episode. We started talking

41:38

about, you know, breaking the generational

41:40

cycle of Asian parenting. And I

41:43

think I had my own definitions

41:45

of what that meant. And I think we all have our own

41:47

definitions of what that means. And there's

41:49

probably a lot of overlap. But

41:52

throughout this conversation we also learned that

41:54

it's, it's not just within

41:56

the Asian culture and it's not just

41:59

about generational differences.

42:02

It can be, and it

42:04

could also be a whole bunch of other things.

42:06

And to change

42:09

the way that, you know,

42:11

I'm okay. You.

42:12

we become parents ourselves

42:15

is to think about what we had wanted

42:17

from our parents and

42:19

then be that person. And

42:24

soft parenting, I'm just gonna put air

42:26

quote soft parenting which

42:29

is what Anj had described as the soothing

42:32

like part three of that diagram.

42:35

Maybe we'll find that diagram and we'll link it in the

42:37

show notes, is really teaching

42:39

kids how to

42:41

trust their own senses, trust

42:44

their emotions, learn how to process

42:47

when things are not so great

42:50

when. Things feel

42:52

a certain way. And

42:55

I think rather than

42:57

seeing it as a, you know,

42:59

soft or a weak way to parent,

43:02

we're actually building resilience

43:04

and strength. And that's something

43:06

that we, many

43:08

of us did not get to experience growing

43:11

up. That's why we're learning about it as adults

43:13

and we're like, Oh my gosh, there's so many things I have to unlearn,

43:15

but also relearn as well. How

43:18

do I trust my own senses and emotions

43:20

and process things and recognize

43:23

trauma? You know? And

43:25

at the end of the day, we're

43:27

all just trying to do the best we can, whether

43:29

you're a parent or in

43:32

any other role that you might have in your

43:34

life. And

43:37

at the end of the day, just have some self-compassion

43:40

as we try to do the best that we can

43:42

do. So thank

43:44

you for that.

43:47

You summarized all that

43:49

we talked about, so Well, And like,

43:51

just to kind of add on a couple

43:53

things to what Christie said, like

43:55

when we're talking about the soothing

43:57

system, it's, I think

44:00

sometimes it's called co-regulating.

44:02

So if you can't find anything under like, soothing

44:05

system, if you search like maybe co-regulating,

44:07

maybe you can find, more information

44:10

on that. And another

44:12

resource that has been very

44:14

helpful for me has been untacking.

44:17

Like, cuz it's like specifically

44:21

like written by an Asian

44:23

person. I know I even mentioned

44:25

to you guys like that I've kind of been not

44:28

a hundred percent into it because for,

44:31

Iris who created untiring, like

44:33

Untacking also includes unschooling.

44:37

And I'm not a hundred percent into

44:39

unschooling. Yet slash ever

44:41

Just cuz like, I, I don't think

44:43

I would have the patience to

44:46

like do homeschooling.

44:47

What's unschooling? Just

44:50

it's ba I think it's like a

44:52

form of. Unschooling

44:54

or a form of homeschooling. Sorry, that's

44:56

even like less structured. Like

44:59

I think there is, like, there are some

45:01

people who do homeschooling, but like

45:03

they do it very like close

45:05

to the government curriculum.

45:08

And I think unschooling is even

45:10

more like, you know,

45:13

let your kids take the lead. Like self-directed

45:16

stuff like that. Like that's kind of the impression

45:18

that I get from, what unschooling

45:20

is. And I'm just like, I

45:23

do not I am not the,

45:26

the unschooling type.

45:28

Like I, I don't think I'm

45:30

ready to let go of everything else

45:32

that I have in my life to like commit

45:34

to, you know, being like the

45:38

teacher for my kid. And,

45:40

but I think one of the things about

45:42

Iris's story that like I

45:44

tend to hold onto is that like

45:47

she didn't start doing

45:50

this new way of parenting until I think

45:52

her oldest kid was eight. So

45:54

like, when I like hear that, I'm like, oh,

45:56

like, or especially when I have my moments

45:59

where I'm like, ugh, I'm like dipping

46:01

into being very authoritarian

46:04

or, I said something

46:06

that I didn't, that didn't come out right

46:08

or in the tone that didn't come out like the

46:11

way that I wanted to, then I kind of remember

46:13

Okay, like it's not too late.

46:15

Iris Chen didn't start until her kid

46:17

was eight years old.

46:22

look at that self-compassion that

46:24

you're giving yourself. Just recognize

46:27

that work too. Vici,

46:30

Oh, thank you. Yeah.

46:34

Our last question What are you currently

46:36

doing for yourself? right now

46:38

for self care, I

46:41

hesitate on self-care. because it becomes such a

46:43

buzzword. But what is something that you are currently

46:45

doing for yourself? Period.

46:48

Well, one of the things that I

46:50

got really into like this

46:52

year was like planning

46:55

with like, and like doing like planner

46:58

spreads with like washy tape

47:00

and stickers and stuff like that. and so

47:02

like one of the shops that

47:05

I follow, like her YouTube channel,

47:07

like, so she has one of the, she

47:09

has a journal. Or a planner called

47:11

the HoChi cousin and it has like a weekly

47:13

section and a daily section. And

47:16

so like she, journals like

47:18

in her daily section and like watching

47:20

her channel in inspired me to

47:23

start journaling. So I've been journaling

47:26

every day since April

47:28

1st, or even earlier than that

47:30

this year. cuz I have an April start

47:33

HoChi like, here it is. viewers

47:36

can't see it, but I'm like just kind of flipping through.

47:38

It's like stickers and washy and

47:40

journaling. but yeah, I've been journaling

47:42

every day and some, and sometimes it's

47:44

like not very deep. Sometimes this

47:46

is just like, this is what happened today. And other

47:49

times there are like things that are a little

47:51

more, I don't know. I don't know.

47:53

I don't, I think pro saying profound would

47:55

give myself too much credit, but just like, like

47:57

yeah, like other stuff is just more like personal

48:00

and emotional. That's a better way to phrase it.

48:02

yeah, so that's something that I've been doing is

48:04

journaling every.

48:07

I love that. I'm a big fan

48:10

of journaling, so, And, and

48:12

your journal looked great just seeing

48:14

you flip through the pages, there's like different colors.

48:16

The washy tapes are there. You're doing some

48:18

like lettering I

48:21

saw from what I, from what

48:23

you had shown. Thank you again for hanging

48:25

out with us today, Vici, and sharing

48:27

your stories and

48:30

where can some of our proof troops find you? Vinci

48:32

poop troops. Okay.

48:34

It's what we call our listeners. They voted

48:36

right. Oh, okay. Well,

48:38

poof Troops. Well, it's like, like,

48:40

you know, in Christie's intro earlier

48:42

on in the show, I like my, most

48:45

of my online presence is professional,

48:48

so you can find me through like my

48:50

dietician website. it's, it's my

48:52

name, It's vinci choy.com and I'll spell

48:54

it. It's V I n c C I t

48:57

S u i.com. And,

48:59

and yeah, and I'm on Instagram

49:01

or Twitter or Facebook, at

49:04

Vinci r d.

49:05

Awesome. And of course everything

49:07

will be in the show notes.

49:08

Thanks so much for having me.