0:01

Hello Internet!

0:28

I'm your husband, Travis McElroy. I'm

0:30

your wife, Teresa McElroy. And you're

0:32

listening to Schmanners. It's extraordinary etiquette.

0:34

For an eradication to the limit of.

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And you can support that and support

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us by going to maximumfun.org/join. I'll tell

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you more soon, but first Teresa, I'm

3:01

pretty darn excited to talk

3:03

about this week's topic. We're talking

3:05

about American Sign Language. We are. Sometimes I pretend

3:07

like I don't know what the topic is and

3:09

I'm like, what are we talking about this week?

3:12

But I know, I know, but I pretend

3:14

like I don't so that it gives a segue, but I'm

3:16

so excited to talk about this. But

3:18

I also wanna say sometimes

3:22

I get confused by very

3:24

similar, what is it called when

3:27

it's, do

3:29

you use the first letters? Abbreviations. Abbreviations.

3:31

Because when I was a cool young

3:33

10 to 18 year old and

3:37

we used AOL chat rooms. Oh

3:39

yeah. And it's an excellent and it's

3:42

so creepy to say it out loud now, age,

3:44

sex, location which at the time was

3:47

just like, oh, you're in a chat room. Oh hi, ASL everybody.

3:51

And it's so inherently creeped out saying

3:53

that'd be like, how old are you?

3:57

And where are you? I know. Oh,

4:00

but at the time. It

4:02

was a different time. It was the equivalent of when

4:04

people talk about, we used to

4:06

ride our bikes all night, all around the neighborhood. And

4:08

as long as we were home for dinner, our parents

4:10

didn't care. And that's the equivalent, except it's like, yeah,

4:13

we used to tell people how old we were and

4:15

where we lived all the time. And nobody even thought

4:17

about it. But I think

4:19

about it, but that's not what we're talking

4:21

about. We're talking about ASL, American Sign Language.

4:23

Yes. So we're

4:25

gonna do some history. Okay. Right?

4:29

But also the general etiquette of

4:31

communicating with a deaf person. Okay.

4:34

Let's all agree that

4:36

when a person is signing, right, the

4:40

brain process of all the linguistic

4:42

information is through the eyes and

4:44

not the ears, right? Yeah. And

4:47

so the shape, the placement, the

4:49

movement of a person's hands, as

4:51

well as their facial expressions and

4:53

body movement all become

4:55

essential to the communication style. Yeah.

4:57

Right? But that doesn't mean

4:59

that there's only one way to say something. Yeah.

5:02

Just like the English language, for example,

5:05

has many words for

5:07

describing maybe sometimes

5:10

the same thing or different

5:12

nuances between things. Different

5:14

emphasis. Different emphasis. There are

5:16

lots of ways to sign things

5:19

and there are even lots

5:21

of sign languages. Yes.

5:25

Each country has their own sign language

5:28

and different regions have their own dialects. I

5:31

know. Because especially there

5:33

are lots of ASL words

5:35

that are almost

5:37

like letter combinations, right? Where you see them doing

5:39

the signs for the letters in combination in a

5:41

certain way that you know what that is, right?

5:43

Or names or something like that. Yeah,

5:45

but even the letter signs are different between

5:48

different languages. Because if you think about it,

5:51

there's different symbols in different languages.

5:53

You wouldn't be able to just

5:55

use ASL for everything. So

5:58

back when... Then we started

6:01

paying attention to this kind

6:03

of thing because there have

6:05

always been death people from

6:08

so there have always been

6:10

sign languages. some but say

6:12

were highly specialized to localities

6:14

sure, right? So every village,

6:16

every every group had their

6:19

own kind of way of

6:21

delineating their own sign language,

6:23

and people within that group

6:25

could often. Recognize.

6:29

What a another deaf person might met

6:31

have meant from a different sign language.

6:33

I think about account accents or most

6:35

in our give you think about before

6:38

there was so months. Travel.

6:40

Between locations. wary when it was a lot

6:42

more difficult to get from even state to

6:44

state, one one country to country. we're time

6:46

of his last night I say that way

6:48

of I saw a tick tock recently where

6:51

they provide. Were. Like different are

6:53

like countries. make fun of America sometime for

6:55

being so poorly traveled and I have is

6:57

like British due to his like of anger.

6:59

In America you know how hard it is

7:02

just a game from place of ways in

7:04

America it takes so long so let's argue

7:06

for to hide on they haven't been to

7:08

Switzer was. About like

7:11

that idea of like I think, relic

7:13

Appalachian for example, right where. The.

7:15

Appalachian accent inherently comes

7:17

from. A different people

7:19

settling in that area and then

7:22

not really traveling outside of it

7:24

for a long time and so

7:26

the accent developing as a very

7:28

regional thing and then. then

7:31

you hearing your i would a unique things

7:33

like months because it was like a petri

7:36

dish for that accent to grow. With.

7:38

Out a lot of outside influences and

7:40

so I imagine that there was a

7:42

similar thing with this only would be

7:44

my gum him maybe you only ever

7:46

interact with like. Maybe. Your

7:48

family on the farm let alone like

7:50

eight hundred people than your entire life

7:52

for like yeah whatever you are able

7:54

to figure out that works for that

7:56

community of course he sick with and

7:58

hearing. Or not we. all use

8:01

our hands and our expressions

8:03

to indicate certain things, right? Some

8:05

of us more than others. I knock stuff over

8:07

left and right. We have to work hard with

8:09

Bebe to scoot her glasses back at dinner every

8:12

night. Let me just, if I could just, oh,

8:15

could you breathe that from the edge of the table? Oh, that's

8:17

the thing that, once again, I've got a lot of energy this

8:19

morning, because I'm excited about the Max Fund drive. I

8:21

didn't know as a parent how much

8:23

time and energy would be spent moving

8:25

my child's cups away from like

8:28

halfway off the table. It's just a constant

8:30

thing at dinner. I'm just like, if I

8:32

could do it, yep, let's just scoot

8:35

that back. You see I was hanging over, like we're

8:37

gonna play flip cup. If you could just pull that

8:39

back, that would be great. She doesn't know what flip

8:41

cup is. Anyway. Yeah, wait till she's 12. So

8:43

pointing at things, right? We're gonna use

8:45

root beer. Okay, anyway,

8:48

pointing at things, waving hello,

8:50

those kinds of things are

8:53

a type of sign, right? Even

8:55

though they are not recognized as

8:57

like a language, it is a

8:59

way of communicating, right? Flipping the bird, that's

9:02

a pretty clear one. Absolutely, pretty clear sign.

9:05

Had to have that conversation with BV the other day too. She

9:08

didn't do it, but a kid in her

9:10

class had said don't flip the middle finger. And she

9:12

was like, why not? I was like, well, do you

9:14

know how we have like a thumbs up? That

9:17

one actually. So ASL,

9:19

as we know it today, really didn't

9:21

begin to form until the 19th century

9:23

in New England. It

9:26

was where a kind of

9:28

triangle of village sign language started

9:30

to cement themselves

9:32

particularly. Martha's

9:34

Vineyard in Massachusetts. I'm

9:37

gonna do the best I can with this name

9:39

Heinecker. Sure. New Hampshire.

9:42

And the Sandy River Valley in Maine.

9:44

Okay. These villages in

9:46

the Eastern US that make kind

9:48

of a lopsided triangle, they're

9:51

not, I mean, it's not a perfect triangle. Can

9:53

I reveal a thing about myself? Sure. I'm

9:56

40. I'm a 40 year old

9:59

man. I know it's not this, but

10:02

every time I hear Martha's Vineyard, I picture

10:04

Martha Stewart getting a vineyard. And

10:06

I think it's like when I was a child and

10:09

Martha Stewart was so very prevalent, not as much now,

10:11

but still a concern. A

10:13

concern? Watch out, she could be anywhere.

10:16

I used to always just picture like, oh,

10:18

that's where Martha Stewart lives. That's just what

10:20

I believed. That's not it, but. Okay,

10:22

do we know she's not there? I

10:25

don't know off the top of my head

10:27

where Martha Stewart is at any given time.

10:29

That's not how Ina Garden lives in a garden,

10:31

right? And Martha V... What? Two

10:34

lives in a house. Well, Bobby Flay peels people's skin

10:36

off. No, gross. What? Do

10:38

not go there. Okay, so

10:41

due to the intermarriage of the

10:43

original community of English settlers back

10:45

in the 1690s, several

10:48

different families have

10:50

a genetic trait of

10:53

deafness. Yes. In

10:55

fact, in Chillmark, which is a village on

10:57

Martha's Vineyard, it

11:00

had a high rate of genetic deafness, which accounted for about

11:02

4% of their community.

11:04

Okay. So

11:07

obviously, they had to

11:09

find a way to make

11:11

sure that everybody was able to communicate,

11:13

right? Right. And so MVSL,

11:17

Martha's Vineyard Sign Language, became very

11:19

popular also with the hearing residents.

11:21

So you would use them regardless

11:24

of whether or not they were

11:26

speaking to a deaf member of

11:28

the community. Well, I mean, if you think

11:30

about it, right? Like, this is a

11:33

lot of sign language, right? Whether

11:36

you're a deaf person, hearing

11:38

person, whatever, right, is

11:40

so effective across... Like,

11:42

think about it. Long distances, right? I

11:45

don't wanna yell across the street like, hey,

11:47

isn't it? Like, I'm just gonna wave, right?

11:50

Or like saying thank you, right? It's a

11:52

lot easier or like pointing at something like,

11:55

there's a lot of maybe

11:57

not codified signing, but

11:59

that's... that is so useful

12:02

and effective to use, right?

12:05

If there's a reason they use it in like

12:07

tactical missions. Oh yeah. Like when you're doing like,

12:09

I don't know, I see it in military and

12:11

spy movies all the time. I assume it's real.

12:13

Also great for whispering at church. That's also

12:15

true. Yeah, so you don't have to, you

12:17

don't make any noise with the signs. You

12:20

don't, you know, but you can talk

12:22

to your friends. Yeah, or like your dad can tell

12:24

you like, stop, stop it, stop doing the thing you

12:26

do it. Boys, I'm looking at you right now. So,

12:30

but a completely standardized version

12:33

of the language didn't exist

12:36

in America until the American

12:38

School for the Deaf was founded in Hartford, Connecticut

12:41

in 1817. Not

12:43

originally called that. Sure.

12:45

Unfortunately. I'm sure that it was

12:47

far less sensitive. Indeed. Yeah. But

12:52

the founder was connected

12:54

to a very lovely little lady named

12:57

Alice. Alice Cogswell was

12:59

the beloved daughter. What a great last name.

13:01

I know of a wealthy doctor named

13:03

Mason Cogswell. I wish he made clocks.

13:05

And at the age of two. Or he fixed

13:08

clocks. Oh. He fixed clocks and he made

13:10

Cogswell. Oh. No,

13:12

he's a doctor. Of clocks? A clock dog.

13:15

People. A clock dog. No.

13:18

Unfortunately, Alice

13:21

was very ill at the age of two with

13:24

what was diagnosed as spotted fever, but

13:27

probably cerebrospinal

13:29

meningitis. Fever is one of

13:32

those things. I think they've talked about it on

13:34

cell bones where it became kind

13:36

of a catch all like, oh, they've

13:38

got a fever, right? Whereas clearly something's

13:40

wrong. We don't know what it is. It's

13:44

just kind of a blanket term for that

13:46

kind of thing, especially in the area. Ah,

13:49

it's a fever. Yeah. And

13:51

this is a

13:53

relatively difficult thing to

13:57

survive today. And

13:59

so by... some miracle she

14:02

lived through this infection. It's

14:04

the swelling of the

14:06

protective tissue surrounding the brain and spinal

14:08

cord. Oh boy. All that stuff's

14:10

very important. It is very important. So. I'm

14:13

no clock-ter, but I know how important the spine

14:15

and brain is. Yes. Oh, come

14:17

on. Oh

14:20

man. I

14:23

went, I passed that, came back to

14:25

it. Yeah. Oh man. Here

14:30

in the 1800s, there

14:33

were some pretty dumb ideas. What?

14:37

Get out of town. One of those dumb ideas being that

14:39

deafness was

14:43

viewed as a mental illness. Huh. Yeah.

14:46

Okay. And not only

14:49

was it widely believed

14:51

that deaf people did not require

14:53

any education, that

14:55

they were incapable of being educated. Okay.

14:59

Ridiculous. All right. So at the time,

15:05

unless your family advocated for

15:07

you, a

15:10

deaf person was mostly

15:13

just educated too, enough to like

15:15

learn the Bible or something. Okay.

15:18

Right. And not expected to have

15:20

any kind of education have

15:25

any kind of like higher education other

15:27

than maybe reading and writing. Yeah.

15:30

But this stigma is

15:33

something that Alice would

15:35

learn to overcome. And

15:38

that was at the intervention of

15:40

a man named Thomas Gallaudet. Sounds

15:43

French to me. Yes, he is French. So

15:47

maybe it was Thomas. Maybe.

15:49

Or was there an H in there? So

15:52

is the H affected? Then it's Thomas. I

15:56

believe that the TH in French

15:58

is not pronounced. I think

16:01

it's just a tea. I know. It

16:03

was just a joke that I was thinking,

16:05

because that's all I can give you. Oh,

16:08

right. That's it. So it

16:10

was apparent to Thomas that Alice was

16:12

very smart. And

16:15

he was able to communicate with her

16:19

using pictures and writing and all

16:21

kinds of things. And it was

16:23

clear that she was very intelligent.

16:27

So he began to

16:30

teach her and to get

16:33

together with her dad so

16:37

that they could make it not just

16:40

available to her, but everyone

16:42

who needed this kind of education.

16:44

Right? So

16:47

they embarked on a mission to get her

16:49

the education she deserved. On

16:52

the one hand, I really I love

16:55

that a parent was like, if this has helped us,

16:57

then there will be other

16:59

parents out there that this will help too and

17:01

other children and other people. Man,

17:04

it sucks that it took until like 1817

17:06

to kind of come up with that, right?

17:09

Yeah. But like I said, communities

17:13

have always supported their deaf

17:15

people. This wasn't just,

17:17

you know, there's

17:20

a long history of people

17:23

like creating their own

17:25

like adaptations and the way

17:27

that they different learning styles

17:29

and things like that. It's just like,

17:32

at this point, there was

17:34

kind of like a convergence of

17:37

the people who you

17:40

lived with doing the best that they could

17:42

and like the institutions. Okay, right? I'm

17:46

so excited to learn more about this. But

17:48

first, I want the people at home to

17:50

learn a little bit more about the maximum

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fund drive. Hey, it's me, Travis,

17:55

and this is a Max Fund drive break.

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Welcome to it. So Max Fund

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Shmanners and all the other shows and

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MaxFun and all of that stuff. Thank

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you. Let's get back to the show. Okay,

19:54

so they're teaching Alice. Alice gets it.

19:56

They're like, this rules. Let's

19:59

do a school. tell more people, let's spread this

20:01

around. So they

20:03

wanted to go to Europe and learn

20:06

from where people were already developing schools

20:09

catered to deaf people. And

20:11

there was a family in England

20:14

that operated several schools for deaf

20:16

students, the brainwits. Another

20:19

great name. Another great name. But

20:21

they were focused more on oral

20:23

education. So

20:26

the students were expected to master lip reading

20:28

and speech. Alice

20:30

specifically, because of her

20:33

illness, was also

20:35

mute, so she could not

20:37

speak. And

20:40

they also, the brainwits, they'd been working

20:42

on this. So they weren't too keen

20:44

on really sharing

20:47

it. But

20:52

undeterred, Thomas and

20:54

her dad met

20:57

Abby Szecard, the director

20:59

of the Institutit Royale

21:02

des Sores Muy in Paris,

21:04

France. And

21:07

that school had been operating since the 1700s. So

21:11

they had a ton of experience and also... Money.

21:15

I would bet. Sure. At

21:18

least they had money. But

21:21

they met some graduates

21:23

of the program who were

21:26

very interested in carrying on this education.

21:29

Oh, okay. Yeah.

21:31

Okay. So Thomas

21:34

stayed in France to

21:36

learn everything that he possibly

21:38

could about the methods there

21:42

and brought one of

21:44

the students I mentioned, Laurent Clerc,

21:47

with him back home to teach

21:49

Alice. Okay. And

21:51

so on the way home,

21:53

Clerc taught Galdineh the sign language

21:56

that they used, and

21:59

Galdineh taught Clark as much English

22:01

as he could. So it went, it

22:03

was kind of an exchange of

22:06

ideas. And

22:08

so Alice thrived. She

22:11

loved to read and

22:13

sew and dance and

22:15

was fascinated by the concept of music

22:17

even though she couldn't really hear it,

22:19

right? And so in April of 1817

22:21

in Hartford, Clark

22:25

and Thomas established the American

22:27

School for the Deaf, opening

22:30

their doors to Alice and then six other

22:32

deaf students. So Laurent

22:34

Clark was the very first deaf teacher

22:37

in the United States of America. Neat.

22:40

Awesome. And so he

22:43

wound up changing the lives of

22:45

a lot of people and nicknamed

22:47

the Apostle of the Deaf in

22:49

America and stayed there at

22:51

his school for 50 years,

22:56

doing everything he could to shape

22:58

deaf education, instructing students, adapting

23:00

what they needed. And

23:03

so this is where from

23:05

his classes that

23:07

American Sign Language as we know it

23:09

today starts to take shape. Students

23:12

from Martha's Vineyard brought their

23:14

sign language with them. And

23:17

then like we said earlier,

23:20

students from Henneker and Sandy River

23:22

Valley also brought their own sign

23:24

language. And so they

23:27

had this kind of convergence of

23:30

sign languages plus the French sign

23:32

language. And so

23:35

which once again, like it just makes me think about

23:38

as we developed things

23:40

like radio and then movies, TV,

23:42

I mean, newspaper as printing became

23:44

a big thing, like so much

23:48

regionalism, especially here in America, where once

23:50

again, so huge, the United States of

23:52

America, so many different developing cultures. And

23:55

then people start to pick up like,

23:58

oh, cowboy slang and Southern. and

24:00

idioms and northern

24:02

dialects and all this stuff, and you

24:04

start to get much more of that

24:06

melting pot of language of

24:08

like, oh yeah, oh well, I heard my

24:11

cousin say this and I liked it, and

24:13

we spread that around and stuff like that.

24:15

Yeah, so then this spread all

24:17

the way across the country in

24:20

different societies like the National Association

24:22

for the Deaf and the National

24:24

Fraternal Society of the Deaf, like

24:26

held conventions and attracted signers, and

24:28

they're spreading this. Cosplayers? No.

24:32

Probably a different kind of convention, huh? Different kind of

24:34

convention. Okay. I bet

24:36

at least one Power Ranger was there signing

24:38

autographs, though. But they spread AFL as

24:40

a kind of like, middle

24:44

ground, right, where like,

24:47

everyone would pretty much

24:49

like, have their own like, daily sign

24:51

language, but signers could communicate, and

24:54

hearing people could also understand

24:57

what was happening. Yeah. If they

24:59

had been trained in ASL. Not

25:03

everyone agreed with this standardization,

25:05

because in the 1950s,

25:07

many people thought that it was best

25:09

for deaf people to be taught through

25:11

oralism, like I talked about, right? So, lip reading? In

25:14

the 1950s? No, 1950s. 1950s,

25:16

oh. So, we moved through

25:18

history, right? Yeah. And then

25:20

we've talked about this before, this kind of pendulum swing.

25:22

Yeah. And so,

25:25

oralism, like I said, is a

25:27

focus on oral language, mimicking mouth

25:29

movements, lip reading, things like that.

25:31

Kind of seems like, listen, I don't want

25:34

to disparage anybody, there might be good reason

25:36

for it, but it kind of seems to me

25:38

like a way of saying like, well, I don't want to have

25:40

to learn how to sign. So, I would

25:42

like them to just learn how to read my lips so

25:44

I can just keep speaking normally. It does. Quote,

25:47

unquote. It does sound like that. Yeah. And

25:50

so, there was,

25:52

unfortunately, there was a

25:54

group of people called the Milan

25:56

Congress. who

26:03

held the second international Congress on

26:06

education of the deaf, who

26:08

really only contained one non-hearing

26:10

person, and decided that oralism

26:13

was the way to go

26:15

and we don't like sign

26:17

language. Later they recanted and

26:20

apologized. Hey, we're buttholes,

26:22

obviously. Sorry, everybody. So,

26:25

as you can imagine, that was

26:27

catastrophic to the deaf community. Yeah.

26:31

But it didn't extinguish

26:34

ASL, which is great. And

26:37

oralism is a tool that one can

26:39

choose to use. Yeah. But I don't

26:41

think, I mean, like you said, you

26:43

shouldn't be expected to communicate

26:45

that way. Because

26:48

it may not be

26:50

possible. Like, I

26:52

remember teaching Bebe and Dottie

26:55

to talk, and it's not

26:57

like I could hold

26:59

their mouths and make them make the

27:01

noises. It was just they

27:03

are hearing children, they were able to replicate

27:05

the sounds, and then that was the way

27:07

that they did their mouths. But if you

27:10

can't hear it, you might not be able

27:12

to do that. So it's really,

27:14

it's not cool. I

27:16

mean, the thing is, is it should be like

27:18

any teaching tool where, as you said, have,

27:22

you don't just have one tool in

27:24

your toolbox. Yeah. Right. You have lots

27:26

of things and whatever works, works. But

27:28

having a common language to start from,

27:30

like, I think it's why ASL is

27:32

like so incredible and should be a core

27:36

tenant of any

27:39

kind of learning curriculum of

27:41

like having that to

27:43

build off of is

27:46

so strong. Yeah. I mean, even like

27:49

when our before our kids learned

27:52

to speak, there was a lot of like sign

27:54

language that you teach the babies and they pick

27:56

up on it very, very quickly and things like

27:58

thank you, drink, hungry, more. Wire Yeah, definitely.

28:01

I mean you. You focus on

28:03

them asking for the things. That

28:05

they need Jesus which is really important

28:07

because he can't talk when his bed

28:09

and say thank you because as soon

28:11

as a baby's are showing gratitude, a

28:13

real era helps sell minds. I'm

28:17

there was a. Of

28:19

really great strides in nineteen

28:22

Sixty Five for Sl

28:24

were a transcription system was

28:26

created so that revolutionized both

28:29

death education and linguistics

28:31

as a field. Mrs. Merkel.

28:34

I'm and today Sl is used

28:36

by an estimated half a million

28:38

people throughout the United States and

28:40

Canada, and is frequently taught as

28:43

a second language. Ah, I'm It's

28:45

also considered a lingua franca in

28:47

many parts of the world com,

28:49

which is like a bridge language.

28:51

Or alien language, right?

28:54

Hum. And so

28:56

I think that that is. From

29:00

where we started, everyone's communicating

29:02

in order to get their

29:05

needs met right? and then

29:07

to the point where it

29:10

crosses over different communication divides.

29:12

Think. That's. Awesome! That is

29:14

awesome and I want to hear some of the

29:17

out against just a second. But.

29:19

How about another Will breaks. For. A

29:21

little my son drives them. so.

29:23

okay so here's how your support

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The By: If you do want to

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fun.org Flash Join: Thank. You so

31:17

much Kate How I saw that as it

31:19

gets. So if you

31:22

want to know how to effectively

31:24

communicate with someone who signs as

31:26

their main language, Here.

31:29

Are a few things of that. He.

31:31

Said always keep trying

31:34

com so saying hello

31:36

to death person set

31:38

you know smiling at

31:40

them asking them questions

31:42

I think. Is. Is

31:45

important because. it's

31:47

a deaf person does not understand

31:49

what you're saying the first few

31:51

times i'm giving up and saying

31:53

oh don't worry about it doesn't

31:55

matter can make them feel like

31:57

they don't manner yeah So

32:00

even if it takes four or five

32:02

times of rephrasing it or writing it

32:05

down or drawing in pictures, it's important

32:07

to continue to work to try and

32:09

communicate to each other. It also, to

32:11

go back to a little bit of

32:13

my beef with people in the 1950s,

32:15

who if I could go back in

32:17

time, whoa, I'd get them, about oralism

32:19

of, it shows that

32:21

you're putting in the work and not

32:23

just like, you know what, this is

32:26

hard for me. And so

32:28

I'm going to stop deaf person

32:30

and you have to do all the work. Like,

32:32

oh boy, oh boy. To

32:34

be able to say like, I don't know, man, it's hard

32:36

for me to learn ASL. Like

32:39

so I'm just not gonna do anything.

32:43

Another one is to always face the deaf person.

32:46

Make and keep eye contact while you're speaking. So

32:49

do your best not to look away or cover

32:51

your mouth, even though

32:53

you may feel embarrassed trying

32:56

to communicate, these visual representations

32:58

are very important, right? So

33:02

deaf people need to be able to see your

33:04

lips if they can lip read, but

33:07

you shouldn't count on them to be able to do that.

33:10

But facial expressions are really helpful,

33:12

gesticulating like hearing people do in

33:15

regular life, pointing to things, waving

33:19

your hands excitedly. I do that a lot.

33:21

And then glasses over. Plus it just kind

33:23

of normalizes the conversation. Yeah, absolutely.

33:26

Like that's how you would talk to somebody else. Also

33:29

you don't want to be too close, right? So

33:31

a little bit of distance is good. That's true

33:33

just in life. Just a good

33:35

bit of distance when talking to someone

33:37

is appreciated. But you know what

33:39

I mean? It's easier to communicate with

33:41

someone visually if you're sitting across from

33:43

them at a table instead of next to

33:46

them, right? Because you can see more

33:48

of their body. Life

33:50

and lighting are also really important. And

33:53

I know that we're talking about deaf

33:55

people, but not every deaf person

33:57

is 100% deaf. a

34:01

lot of people can still hear

34:03

like planes or dogs barking or

34:06

other like loud noises, right? So

34:10

they also might use a hearing aid at

34:13

some point. I know that there are there are different

34:15

ways to do like colloquial What

34:18

is it? Implants things like

34:20

that if there is a

34:22

lot of ambient cochlear. That's the name.

34:24

Thank you, dear If

34:26

there's a lot of ambient noise in

34:28

the room It might be better to

34:31

go someplace where there's less noise Do

34:33

you ever find when you're trying to remember a word?

34:35

But you said the wrong word first because you said

34:37

like colloquial and then in my brain It's almost like

34:39

I picture myself having to push colloquial out of the

34:41

way to see behind it like no

34:44

I know it's not you move and it's like is

34:46

it me? It's like no colloquial get out of here

34:48

and behind that I can see cochlear and I'm like

34:50

there it is You

34:53

should speak clearly slowly and steadily Try

34:56

not to do any mumbling

34:58

or shouting right or too much

35:01

Exaggeration because it does distort

35:03

your lip patterns So if

35:06

if a deaf person can lip read

35:08

it makes it even harder if you're shouting

35:10

at them Though that's

35:12

weird. That's weird, right? Yeah. Yeah And

35:15

you include inclusion is important, but so

35:17

is normalization Yeah, right and

35:20

that thing of like I'm yelling at

35:22

you right like that That

35:24

doesn't make it feel like a normal conversation That

35:27

thing of like, I mean if people are watching

35:29

right now, it makes me feel weird that you're

35:31

doing that Right, you don't need to

35:33

speak in slow motion. That's what you know,

35:35

that's another thing. That's distortion but

35:38

taking your time and saying exactly what

35:40

you need to say very clearly is

35:44

appreciated Take

35:46

turns in a conversation So

35:49

not only are you trying to communicate with

35:51

the deaf person they they need to be

35:54

able to respond to you So

35:56

don't just like keep trying

35:58

to hammer your point home, let

36:01

the other person respond to you in

36:03

the conversation because that's how conversations work.

36:06

Indeed. On the point of yelling, I

36:10

understand. It's a

36:12

human thing, right? When a person doesn't

36:15

understand you, in the

36:17

hearing world, it makes sense for you

36:20

to speak louder, but

36:22

not at this time. That's

36:24

not helpful in this situation.

36:28

So if you are having trouble

36:30

communicating, louder is

36:33

not better. Try

36:35

slower first, not like slow motion,

36:38

but try a more

36:40

mindful speaking pattern. Like

36:44

I said, be patient and be willing to

36:46

try again. Try different ways. If

36:49

you really find that someone

36:52

that you're trying to talk to cannot understand

36:54

while you're speaking with them, try things like

36:56

writing it down. Try things

36:58

like pointing to the things that you

37:01

need, miming the thing that you want, even

37:04

drawing in pictures, right? Try and find

37:06

a way to communicate effectively, even if

37:09

it's not your first way that you tried

37:11

it, right? I mean, I

37:13

go back to imagine you're making friends

37:15

with someone for whom like French is

37:17

their first language, right? Then

37:19

you might ask the question, like, how do

37:21

I say this in French, right? As you're

37:23

learning French, that same thing of

37:26

like, how do I sign that, right? Even if you

37:28

have to write down, how do

37:30

you sign this? And then you see them

37:32

sign it. And right that when we talk

37:34

about, for example, the cultural exchange of

37:38

Thomas teaching

37:40

Laurent. Yeah. Yeah,

37:43

boom. You realize the thing. That

37:45

Laurent teaching Thomas, like, that exchange

37:47

only happens with patients and the

37:49

ability to look like you

37:51

don't know what you're doing, right? And

37:54

listen, take it from me, a person

37:56

whose biggest anxiety comes from not knowing

37:58

the Process. Not knowing

38:00

that saying and having three bad added

38:02

at first, I get it. But.

38:05

The of like the willingness to say i don't

38:07

know how to do this. But. I

38:09

know that is important and I'm willing to

38:11

work a little silly as I learn moving

38:13

as I get better on it. Is

38:16

very important. Seeing. Of Learn. There.

38:19

Are like hundreds of videos on

38:21

Youtube about a ourselves. Now I

38:23

am saying that I do think

38:25

that you said not just go

38:27

to the first one that pops

38:29

up because. It's

38:32

important that you learn sign language from

38:34

someone who actually like. Uses a yeah

38:36

right? The same as like if you're trying

38:38

to learn an accent for apart or some

38:40

oh my, you're in the play area. Why

38:42

not learn? From. Him like

38:44

your tower German accent or one for

38:46

going some Germany's. Something. Like

38:48

that from some silly i'm not

38:51

every single one of those. Voice

38:53

Then there's endangered. if you're listening to

38:55

your house, I'm assuming it to. I'm

38:57

the same for time A Youtube video

38:59

Sprite youtube. Videos consider the source,

39:02

but if you google it,

39:04

there are like seven million

39:06

hits, so make an effort.

39:08

To. Learn one or two signs.

39:10

When I was a career lifeguard,

39:12

my first career some. We

39:15

had to learn. Sign language is

39:17

things for like. The

39:19

thunder and lightning right? Or get out

39:21

of the pool or walk Or things

39:24

like that. Rights. We learned that stuff

39:26

so that we would be able to

39:28

communicate to the Deaf community the things

39:31

that we needed them to do for

39:33

their safety right? Here. To

39:35

come in handy is going around

39:37

about as such a good tagline

39:40

for a Sl Officer L A

39:42

can come in handy. Yeah right.

39:44

Lovette. Oh my goodness. Okay, before

39:46

we let you down. One

39:48

last time for this week with home

39:50

and aluminum. Six when I somebody seats.

39:52

Ah, it's Black Fund Rise Week One.

39:56

Were courting the Thursday morning but already going

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strong. And. we I really

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appreciate the support. The support not

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only allows us to do this show, but

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it also just allows us to focus on

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this. Alex, for example, our researcher, without whom

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without your support, we couldn't have Alex to

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the thing that you make matters enough

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