0:01

Hello Internet!

0:27

I'm your husband, Travis McElroy. I'm

0:30

your wife, Theresa McElroy. You're listening

0:32

to Shlaners. For ordinary

0:34

occasions, hello my dove. Hello dear.

0:38

We're going to get tattoos of that. We've decided it's going

0:40

to be my first to two. My first to

0:42

two to one. Um, because

0:44

the... I get it. Yes, I get it.

0:47

And we're going to get the dove and the deer. We

0:49

haven't decided yet. Is it I'm getting the deer and you're getting the dove? Yes,

0:52

because I am the dove and you are the

0:54

deer. But would I get the tattoo for

0:57

you? No, no, no, no. Or

0:59

it's like, this is my dove and my deer. No, I

1:02

get the dove and you get the deer and we get it in a

1:04

place where we can touch them together and they kiss. I love that. Or

1:08

you know that meme of like the two

1:10

big brawny men grasping hands? What if it

1:12

was like a dove with a big muscular

1:15

bicep and a deer with a big muscular

1:17

bicep? And it's like, together, Shlaners! I

1:20

don't know where a bicep fits on a

1:22

dove. The wing! Yeah,

1:24

but then... You know they got powerful. Does

1:26

it have two biceps? No,

1:29

those are the fingers. We're

1:34

working out the finer detail. That's how it works

1:36

in cartoons and super kitties when Zsa Zsa is

1:38

doing stuff. Hey, deep cover reference for parents. They

1:42

always use those feathers on bird hands to be like fingers

1:44

and they're like pointing. You know what I mean? Yeah,

1:46

the big feathers. That's

1:49

how they always do it in cartoons and I've never

1:51

questioned it until now. And I'm like, I don't think

1:53

pigeons can point. They can't. Oh

1:55

my God, my whole world's crumbling down around. I'm fine

1:57

with cats having superpowers, but once you get into...

1:59

birds using fingers. Hey

2:02

everybody, welcome. It's a

2:04

new year. It's a new year. Hey,

2:07

it's 20 fun galore, it's time to

2:09

talk about birds with fingers. No, let's

2:11

talk about pickleball. So let me tell

2:13

you what I know about pickleball. It's

2:16

tennis-like. Sure. It's

2:19

in the genre of the

2:21

nested game. The other day,

2:23

Beauty came home from school and had gym.

2:25

I love this story. And we

2:27

said, oh, what'd you do in gym? And

2:30

she said, we played pickleball. And at this point,

2:32

we knew we were doing this episode this week,

2:35

and we said, oh, tell us about how to

2:37

go. And she started describing

2:39

a game in which it

2:42

was like, okay, well, so it's two

2:44

teams and each team has some hula

2:46

hoops. And I was like, okay. And

2:48

she's like, and you're trying to

2:50

like, I think she said like, get the ball through

2:52

the hula hoop or like you're trying to get the

2:54

other person's hula hoop and they're defending. And I remember

2:56

thinking very clearly, I don't

2:58

think this is pickleball. But

3:01

I don't know enough about

3:03

pickleball to confidently

3:07

shut this down. So I just went, sounds great,

3:09

man. Which is probably what I should have done

3:11

anyways. It would have been wonderful. And I went,

3:13

that's not pickleball, bro. Let me show you pickleball.

3:15

Get your goggles. Let's go. I

3:18

also know of pickleball that

3:20

your Uncle Chris, who is

3:22

one of the nicest people in the entire

3:24

world, one of the most supportive men in the entire

3:27

world, and maybe even

3:29

listening right now, he listens to all of

3:31

our podcasts. He celebrates

3:33

all the success of

3:35

his nieces and nephews-in-law.

3:39

He- All around great dude. All

3:41

around great dude. Like, and

3:44

just a teddy bear if a man has

3:46

real beef with pickleball. Now, wait a second.

3:48

I actually reached out to him and

3:51

I wanna make sure I get this right. This is the

3:53

Schmanner's exclusive, straight from Uncle Chris. I wanna get this right

3:55

because I asked

3:57

him for the record. Tell me about. what

4:00

you think as a tennis player

4:03

of pickleball. And

4:05

he said, hey, for courts especially,

4:07

it's really great. It

4:09

helps the courts be able to charge up

4:12

to like- He's a big tennis enthusiast. Yes.

4:15

Okay. Yes, he's like, you can charge a

4:17

ton more people to use a court, right? Because you

4:20

can play as singles

4:22

or doubles, right? But you can

4:25

fit more pickleball courts on a

4:27

tennis court, right? You can charge

4:29

a bunch more people to play. That's great for the

4:31

courts. It's great for like

4:33

the economy of it. He

4:36

said that the only problem

4:38

that he has with pickleballers

4:40

using tennis courts is

4:42

the net specs are different. So

4:45

when you use it for a pickleball court,

4:47

you have to lower the net. And

4:49

he says oftentimes people are

4:51

very unshmannerly and

4:54

do not raise the net back up when they're

4:56

finished. That's his only beef, he said. I

4:59

remember him saying something like a year

5:01

or two ago about like changing

5:03

it to like clique or something like, oh

5:06

yeah, they're putting more pickleball courts in. And

5:09

there was an episode we did a

5:11

live show of Adventure Zone where I

5:13

was running it and the boys were

5:15

playing the skeletons and I had a

5:17

demon come up through the pickleball court.

5:20

And I did that in Chris's honor.

5:22

So let's talk about pickleball. It

5:24

feels new. It's

5:27

newer than tennis, that's for sure. Well tennis, I

5:29

mean like 10 of the eight used to play

5:31

tennis. I know, right? So,

5:33

okay, let's start with pickleball

5:37

is defined as a

5:39

paddle sport that combines elements

5:41

of tennis, badminton and ping

5:43

pong. And pickles. Nope,

5:46

no pickles. I'll explain why it's called pickleball

5:48

in just a second. And

5:50

it can be played on a badminton

5:52

court, either indoors or

5:54

outdoors. So that's the reason why you

5:56

can fit so many in a tennis

5:59

court, is because. the courts are smaller like

6:02

badminton courts. I feel like there's a

6:04

big opening. There's a see a need

6:06

fill a need for like an opposing

6:08

game called Goodminton where it's

6:10

just like where you're just like gently handing

6:12

the shuttleclock to each other and

6:14

say like you're doing a great job. I'm

6:16

very proud of you. Hey, I want

6:19

you to know I think your

6:21

art has come a long way. It doesn't have

6:23

to be about the game. You can compliment like

6:25

I know she got your haircut. I'm sorry I

6:27

didn't say something sooner. I just I was so

6:29

blown away by it's amazing. Here you go. Here's

6:31

the birdie. So here

6:33

are some rules which can get

6:35

a little difficult and sound

6:37

a little like finicky finicky.

6:40

Yeah, but I love that word

6:42

lot easier to to have

6:46

someone either like explain it while you're playing

6:49

or maybe like watch on YouTube and how I

6:51

feel about most like board games and stuff. And

6:54

I don't know if that's ADHD or just the

6:56

way like board game rules are written. But

6:58

like our friend Charlie who has shepherded us through

7:00

many a game tends to like all right let's

7:03

go over the rule book and by like the

7:05

second page I'm like just start playing. Charlie

7:07

please if we could just of

7:10

course YouTube tutorials are great. Alex

7:13

would like to thank pickleheads.com

7:16

for these very helpful instructions. That's fun. Yeah.

7:18

You know I like pickle. That's my you

7:20

know that's my like Twitch user

7:24

what I call them the chill pickles.

7:26

Yeah. By the way trying to grow

7:28

my Twitch audience if you didn't know

7:30

every Monday night every Wednesday morning every

7:32

Thursday night. I'm with the honesty

7:35

God and not just saying this.

7:37

I think it's the most relaxed

7:39

nicest most supportive group the

7:41

fan base is not even me. Mostly I'm

7:43

just there as an excuse for them to

7:46

hang out and have great chats. Twitch.tv slash

7:48

the Travis McElroy. Always be hustling. Always be

7:50

plugging 2024. Yep. Okay. So there

7:52

are two types of shots that you can take

7:55

a ground stroke which is where you

7:57

hit off the bounce. Okay. Or a

7:59

volley. where you hit out

8:01

of the air. Each side

8:03

of the net has a seven

8:06

foot kind of no volley zone

8:08

called the kitchen where you cannot

8:10

be in, not even a

8:12

toe on the line, cannot be in while

8:14

you're while you're hitting

8:17

volleys. Okay you could hit the ground

8:19

strip but okay okay anyway. Did you

8:21

see my eyes waving over? Yeah. Each

8:24

rally that is where

8:26

you start the ball in

8:29

play begins with a serve.

8:31

Okay. Okay. That I understand. I'm with you. The

8:33

server is on the right side of the court

8:36

facing opponents right and you serve

8:38

diagonally to the opponent on

8:40

the other side. That's standard right? That's

8:43

like what you I mean is

8:45

you do that in tennis too

8:47

right? Yeah. And so the

8:49

serve must clear the kitchen and

8:52

it must be underhand. You

8:54

are not allowed to serve

8:56

overhand because the goal

8:58

of pickleball serve is to put the ball

9:00

in play instead of a tennis serve where

9:02

the goal is to serve overhand

9:04

aggressively and win a point right?

9:06

Okay. A little gentler. Yes. Okay.

9:09

So it has to be underhand. You can either hit

9:11

the ball out of the air or drop

9:13

the ball on the ground to hit it. Okay

9:16

and I'm looking at this. They're

9:18

like wiffle balls. A little bit yeah. Okay.

9:22

Which goes back to the origin of the

9:24

game which I said I would get to.

9:26

Yeah. I think I was picturing more of like

9:29

racquetball like little like

9:31

hard rubber ball. More like badminton. Okay.

9:34

Okay. So then each

9:36

point continues. Now I need to look at and see what the

9:38

paddle looks like. Until a fault.

9:40

It's like a ping pong paddle. Yeah. Okay.

9:44

All right. I'm not seeing any hula

9:46

hooves listed in here. No hula hooves. Okay. I

9:48

don't know where those are from exactly. A

9:52

fault ends the rally. I would be

9:54

willing to bet. Sorry to interrupt for the first time ever. But

9:57

I would be willing to bet that the hula hoops

9:59

were incorporated. as one might like

10:02

American gladiators or like to put it in

10:04

a kids round like guts Where

10:07

it was like and here's how we're gonna illustrate

10:09

where to put the balls through where you're aiming

10:11

for so it wasn't just like

10:14

wild chaos of seven-year-old swinging paddles

10:16

around That makes sense makes it

10:18

a little clearer what the game is so you

10:20

want to keep the ball in play and It

10:23

the ball keeps moving. It's called the rally

10:25

right as the ball moves until

10:29

a fault and a fault could be that

10:31

the serve does not clear the kitchen that's

10:33

that seven foot kind of like no man's

10:35

land a fault Could

10:38

be a shot that's hit out of bounds Or

10:41

a shot is hit into the net. Okay,

10:44

so you want these these rallies

10:46

to go on and on and on and

10:48

on because that's Right,

10:51

that's the game. There is no let in

10:55

That means there's no redo. Oh, okay

10:57

The ball in most games. Well

11:00

the tennis you can have a let. Oh,

11:02

yeah. Yeah So the ball

11:04

is not like baseball that'd be wild if

11:06

they got hot. Wait, hold on. Can

11:08

I hit it again? I Didn't

11:11

want him to catch it. So like I would

11:13

love a second try if I could I'm gonna

11:15

go six inches to his left We can't reach

11:18

Rule number four you cannot volley in

11:20

the kitchen. Remember? That's where you hit

11:22

it without it touching the ground. So

11:24

like like volleyball, right? You

11:27

cannot hit it without it

11:29

touching the ground in the kitchen. Okay, you

11:31

can't do anything again. That's not true Oh,

11:34

if the ball bounces into the kitchen, you

11:36

can hit it from as a ground stroke. Okay.

11:38

Okay. Anyway, and the

11:41

reason is because The

11:43

players at the net have the

11:46

biggest advantage Because they can

11:48

hit any ball high enough with

11:50

a downward kind of like smash right? So

11:52

like a spike. Yeah for volleyball Right

11:55

and so that puts the other opponents on

11:57

the defensive but they can't go up into

12:00

the kitchen, right? So if you were to get

12:02

closer to the net and volley it, you would

12:04

be able to smash it down. And

12:06

you don't want to do that. Because

12:09

it makes it too easy

12:11

to get your points.

12:14

And you know, this game was born

12:16

out of let's have as much fun for

12:18

as long as we can keep the ball

12:21

in play. So this is much more, it's

12:24

sounding to me much more social

12:26

maybe isn't the right word. But

12:29

like the difference between like tennis, where

12:32

it's like, we're training

12:34

our skills to become like a

12:36

graphically point scoring machines. Right?

12:39

Not to downplay tennis at all. I think

12:41

it's great sport. But this sounds more like,

12:43

hey, let's get together. Like this, this

12:45

would be the game that you would play if you're like, no,

12:48

Derek, I don't want to play tennis with you.

12:50

You're too good. It's not fun for me. We

12:53

show up and you just like dominate and

12:55

it but we think a lot of times

12:57

a lot more like almost collaboratively competitive. It

12:59

feels a lot like keep up. Yeah,

13:01

it's a little bit like keep up where it's more

13:04

focused on the like, we're doing

13:06

this together. We're competing as each other.

13:08

But it's more about like, yeah, this

13:10

is a little more social, a little

13:13

more for for our for our fanners

13:15

that don't speak bluey. Everybody

13:18

knows he'd be up. He is

13:20

the balloon game where you want to keep

13:22

it up. But you're working together. And the

13:24

only point where the game ends is when

13:26

the balloon drops on the flag. Listen,

13:29

bluey didn't invent that. Different people

13:31

got that. Okay, so

13:34

this is the thing about the groundstrokes in

13:36

the kitchen. If your opponent hits a short

13:38

shot landing in the kitchen, you can enter

13:40

and hit from the kitchen. This

13:43

is called a dink. Go

13:48

on. So

13:50

dinks are a defensive shot. And one

13:52

of the most important parts of your pickleball

13:54

strategy because it's your best move after

13:56

moving into the kitchen to field

13:59

a dink. and to dink

14:01

right back to your opponent's kitchen.

14:04

Feel the dink also sounds like a euphemism for

14:06

something. I can't quite determine what, but it's just

14:08

like, yeah man, last night I really had to

14:10

feel the dink. I

14:12

don't know. I don't know either, but like if you

14:14

said that to someone, like if you were like hanging

14:17

out with somebody and like, hey, catch up man, what'd

14:19

you do yesterday? And it's like, oh yeah, I had

14:21

to feel the dink. It's really gonna flood their mind

14:23

with images, maybe too many to choose from. Okay,

14:27

number six, I'm not. We're still

14:29

going? No, we're done. We're done with

14:31

that. Oh, you don't wanna follow a field and game? The

14:34

ball must bounce on both sides before either

14:36

team can volley, okay? So you can, it

14:39

has to hit the ground with

14:41

your ground strokes before you can hit it just

14:43

in the air, like tennis. So

14:47

it has to do a ping pong first, and

14:49

then you can hit it down. So like if I

14:51

dinked it over, you couldn't just, hit it

14:53

right back, it had to bounce first. Yes. Okay.

14:57

Yes. What you want to do is you want to make

14:59

sure that you follow these

15:01

rules, because if you don't, that's a fault, right? And

15:03

you lose the point. Yeah. Okay.

15:06

And the rule keeps the serving team

15:08

back to the baseline. So the serving

15:11

team could easily rush the net and

15:14

gain an unfair advantage, but you have to let

15:16

it bounce first, right? Yes, okay. So

15:18

that keeps you from doing that. You

15:20

only win points on your

15:23

surf. You cannot win a point

15:26

if you fault on your own

15:28

surf. Exactly. It

15:30

sounds like it's a combination of a lot

15:32

of like rule sense, where they're like,

15:34

well, we're taking a little bit from this and a little bit from that and

15:36

a little bit from this. Yes. Both

15:38

partners serve in a turn, if

15:41

you're like in doubles, obviously. And

15:44

here's the way that they keep track

15:46

of that. So you'll hear them say

15:48

maybe 002. 00

15:53

is the score of each team and

15:55

two is the position of the server.

15:58

Okay. So we know. which

16:00

is the first player in rotation serving,

16:03

if you do one or two. So it could go

16:05

to like three, three, two, or three, three,

16:07

one. Yes, I'm

16:09

with you. I'm engaged. There

16:12

is an exception to this rule. The first

16:15

player to serve in the game calls out zero,

16:17

zero, two, so that

16:19

the starting team only gets one serve. So

16:22

you don't start with one, you start with

16:24

two, and then on the second round, you'll

16:27

start with one. Does that make sense? You only have

16:29

one at a time. Okay. The

16:32

first team to 11 points wins, but

16:34

you must win by two. Again,

16:37

this is another strategy to keep the game going

16:39

as long as possible, right? And

16:43

then when you, I mean, it can make

16:46

it so that the ending scores can be like 21,

16:48

19 or whatever. 1000

16:50

to 1002. Sure.

16:54

It was the greatest game ever

16:56

played. Real

16:59

quick, the USA Pickleball

17:01

official rules for serving is

17:04

that the serve has to be underhand and

17:07

the contact with the ball is made below the

17:09

waist. Arm

17:11

must be moving in an upward arc and the highest

17:13

point of the paddle head should be below the wrist.

17:16

I think that gives an unfair advantage to someone who's like

17:18

nine feet tall. Maybe. The

17:21

highest point of the paddle head cannot

17:24

be above any part of the line

17:26

formed where the wrist joint bends. So

17:28

it truly is a very gentle, the

17:31

most underhand of underhand serves. Got

17:33

it. Now listen, we're gonna take a quick

17:35

break to hear a word from another Max Wren show. And then

17:37

when we get back, I wanna hear about the

17:39

origin. I wanna hear about the history. One thing

17:41

I might catch. ["The Star-Spangled Banner"]

17:53

Hello, everyone out there. Thank you

17:55

for coming to our service. Yes.

17:58

We are ready to. We

18:02

are Ross and Carrie. We are faith

18:04

healers. Yes, you there. Sir, you have

18:07

a spirit of not listening

18:09

to enough podcast. We

18:11

have the solution for that. We can

18:13

cure you. You should listen to Oh

18:15

No Ross and Carrie. Hallelujah. It's on

18:17

maximum fun. I couldn't have said it

18:19

better myself. Yes, ma'am. Yes, you

18:21

there. Gladys, a spirit of boredom.

18:24

Oh my goodness. We have the solution

18:26

for you. It is to listen to

18:28

the podcast. Oh No Ross

18:30

and Carrie. The

18:42

human mind can be tricky. Your mental

18:44

health can be complex. Your emotional life

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can be complicated. So it helps to

18:48

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and experts, folks like Noah

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19:18

Depression Mode for maximum fun

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at maximumfun.org or wherever you

19:22

get your podcasts. Okay,

19:30

how did this zany sport come

19:32

to be? All right, 1965 is

19:35

when it started. By

19:40

Bill Bell, a successful

19:42

businessman and friend

19:44

of a Washington State Congressman,

19:46

Joel Pritchard. I'm trying

19:48

to think how old a young Clint McElroy would have

19:50

been in 1965. Let's

19:53

see, he'll be 69 days in August. That's

19:56

2004. So I think

19:58

he would have been nine. Nine? Nine?

20:01

Yes. Yes? Wait,

20:04

hold on. I have a few things. I

20:06

never seen anything. I don't know, man. I can't do

20:08

math. So these friends

20:10

were spending time at Pritchard's

20:12

home on Bainbridge Island in

20:14

Washington, and when they

20:16

got there... It would have been 10. They were super bored.

20:18

They would have been 10 years old. Oh,

20:21

okay. Sorry. They were

20:23

bored at his house. They were bored

20:25

at his house. And so they went out

20:27

to the old badminton court and...

20:30

Shall we retire to the old

20:32

badminton court? And wanted to play,

20:34

but they couldn't find any of the

20:36

stuff they needed. Oh, been

20:38

there. So they improvised, and

20:42

they found a perforated ball, like you said, like

20:44

a wiffle ball, left over from another player

20:47

somewhere, and then they got the

20:49

ping pong paddles from the

20:51

house. Nettacity

20:54

is the mother of invention.

20:56

Yes. They've done it. And

20:58

originally, they tried to play with

21:01

the original height of the badminton net, which

21:03

is 60 inches. Too high. Too

21:05

high. But then

21:07

they noticed that the ball was

21:09

bouncing a lot on the asphalt,

21:12

and so it would make things a

21:15

lot more fun if they lowered the

21:17

net and used the bouncing, because you

21:19

couldn't really use the bounce as

21:21

much with the high net. Well, yeah, because

21:23

with badminton, when it touches the ground, that's the point.

21:26

Right. Right? Yeah. So

21:29

the ball was bouncing, they lowered the net, they were able to use the

21:31

bouncing. You've got to use the bouncing on the dink. And

21:34

so another... What

21:36

are you giggling at? Excuse me, what are you giggling

21:38

at? Just you using dink indiscriminately.

21:41

You've got to use the bounce on the dink. When

21:44

you ground-serve the dink, you've got to bounce the dink. You've

21:46

got to manage the dink. If you don't feel the dink

21:48

on the bounce, what are you even doing? I

21:51

thought this was pickleball. Not

21:54

some kind of hula hoop juniors game. Sorry,

21:57

go on. Another friend arrived, Barney McCowie.

22:00

And then there were three men

22:03

creating rules for this silly

22:05

new game relying heavily on badminton

22:07

but also making sure that the goal

22:10

was always that everybody could play

22:12

together for a very long time. Well yeah because

22:14

if they were bored right this seems like it was

22:16

born out of not a competitive spirit. Right. But

22:19

rather like entertainment like I don't want to

22:21

say time killing but like you know what

22:23

I mean? This is not like who's the

22:26

best at pickleball but like let's have fun

22:28

together. Fun. That was the word

22:30

I'm looking for. Not competitive. Yeah but

22:32

fun. So why is it called

22:34

pickleball? There

22:39

are several theories. The

22:41

first one being that it's a green ball

22:43

but no most of

22:45

the time it's not green. The

22:48

other one being that the Pritchard family

22:50

dog was named Pickles. I love

22:52

that. But no. So

22:54

Joan Pritchard proposed the name pickleball

22:57

for the sport because... You

22:59

can play it while you're drunk. No. Because

23:01

of the pickle boats in competitive

23:03

rowing. A pickleboat is

23:06

one of the least competitive boats in

23:08

a crew race because the crew is

23:10

thrown together from random rowers. Not

23:13

people that usually on a

23:15

team together. The pickle boat I

23:18

thought for a second I was like is

23:20

it perforated like the ball? But that's

23:22

not a very good boat. A perforated

23:24

boat is not a very good boat.

23:27

It's a very bad boat. That

23:30

would make it less competitive though. The

23:34

idea is that since it was out of

23:36

like leftover equipment. Oh it's thrown

23:38

together. It was thrown together and

23:40

it's the least competitive game

23:42

ever right? Because the

23:44

idea is to keep the

23:46

game in play. It needs to soak.

23:48

It needs to brine. Alright

23:51

so they constructed the

23:54

first pickleball like actual dedicated court

23:56

in 1967. Wow

23:59

it took off. Two years? I

24:01

mean, yeah, because it was a

24:03

lot like a badminton court. Yeah,

24:05

but I was just saying, like, that's a lot

24:07

of adoption there. And in

24:09

1972, a corporation was formed to protect

24:12

and legitimize the family-friendly sport. And

24:14

then in 1976, the first known pickleball

24:17

tournament took place, held at the South

24:19

Center Athletic Club in, I don't

24:22

know how to say this, Tukwila,

24:27

Washington. You know what, I'm going

24:30

to say it, Tukwila, Washington. Tukwila, maybe that's it. But

24:32

I said it, see how I just said it, like,

24:34

that's what it is. And then I feel like

24:36

that's not how you say it, I'm like, you've all been saying it wrong. That's

24:39

how things work like that. Okay.

24:43

And so many of the participants at this

24:46

point were tennis players,

24:48

including David

24:51

Lester, who was a men's

24:53

singles player at the time. And

24:57

so a lot of people at this

25:00

point were kind of guessing at

25:02

the pickleball games because it was

25:04

very, very new. People

25:06

were practicing with large wooden

25:09

paddles and not like ping

25:11

pong ball size and like

25:13

softball sized plastic woofle balls.

25:15

So like... Too big. Too

25:18

big, right. But the spirit of the

25:20

game was always there. A

25:23

pickleball pioneer in 1982... We're

25:28

going west. Sid Williams.

25:30

We shall establish our own pickle

25:32

homestead. Established

25:35

the United States

25:38

Amateur Pickleball Association, the

25:40

USAPA. And

25:43

organized tournaments and wanted to like

25:45

take it national, right? They

25:48

published their first official rule book in March

25:50

of 1984. And

25:53

this guy, Sid Williams, served as the

25:55

first executive director and president of the

25:57

association. And he served for 14 years.

26:00

years. All right.

26:02

Until he dinged. No,

26:04

that's not it. The

26:06

80s, we're talking about the 80s

26:08

now, is when the first

26:10

composite paddle for Pickleball was created,

26:13

instead of the ping pong paddles,

26:15

right? And there was

26:17

like a fiberglass kind of like

26:20

honeycomb panel

26:23

that they use. It was made out of asbestos? No,

26:25

no, no, no. You might

26:27

have recognized it at

26:30

the time because commercial airlines use

26:32

that for the floors and the

26:34

structural systems of their aircraft. Why

26:38

don't they build pickleball paddles out of the same

26:40

stuff they make the black box out of? That's

26:42

what I'm saying. Okay.

26:45

I know you laughed because that wasn't funny, but you laughed

26:47

because you weren't, you didn't know what I was about to

26:49

say. No, I didn't. I didn't. So

26:52

then by the 90s,

26:54

they were manufacturing custom pickleballs, instead

26:56

of just using the small kind

26:59

of like wiffle balls. So

27:01

we're getting bespoke equipment. I'm loving

27:04

that. That's always legitimizing to a

27:06

game, right? And

27:08

it was being played all over.

27:11

Just like Pogs. Because it was the 90s.

27:13

Because it was the 90s. Exactly. This

27:15

is so wild though, because like, I

27:18

feel like I did not hear

27:20

a single word about pickleball until

27:23

like 10 years ago, maybe even

27:25

less. And it's why

27:27

like, I would have guessed younger than

27:29

this even. Because like, I was

27:32

born in 83, right? And so

27:36

we're talking like there was maybe

27:38

30 years until

27:40

I heard about pickleball. I

27:42

think that was being played all over until that's

27:45

wild to me. So

27:47

there is now an International Federation

27:50

of Pickleball, as well as

27:52

a Pickleball Hall of Fame. And

27:55

I mean, maybe you

27:57

just haven't been paying attention to pickleball. That must be

27:59

it. Because they've had there's

28:02

been segments on the Today Show

28:04

and BBC and live with Kelly

28:06

and Ryan and It's

28:09

been featured in the New York Times and

28:11

Forbes and the Boston Globe and the Economist

28:13

like it's been it's been everywhere I think

28:15

that it's just we haven't been looking for

28:18

it. Yeah, I just I feel like

28:20

there was maybe some kind of Cultural

28:23

tipping point in the last

28:25

five to ten years where it went

28:27

from a thing that everybody was doing

28:30

to a thing that everybody was like

28:32

talking about I'd like

28:34

I that suddenly for some reason it

28:36

was like oh, yeah now not

28:38

only is it happening Like that happened with

28:40

like beanbag toss. Yeah, where it was like,

28:43

yeah that game has been played forever But

28:46

suddenly in like 2005 or whatever

28:48

everybody was like, well, you know,

28:50

you know You did cornhole or baggo

28:52

or beanbag toss whatever you want to call it suddenly

28:54

It was like oh is this new and it's like

28:56

no people have been doing this forever. Well, why am

28:58

I just now hearing about it? some kind of like

29:01

Saturation point so here

29:04

are a few reasons why maybe this

29:06

is this has reached its saturation point,

29:08

right? It's a simple game. It

29:10

has a you know, there's a

29:13

pretty steep learning curve with a lot of

29:15

other racket sports but if you know a

29:17

couple of things about ping pong ball and a couple

29:20

of things about Badminton and

29:22

a couple of things about tennis you can

29:24

put this together, right? It's fairly intuitive because

29:26

that's the way that it was built Also,

29:29

the paddle is shorter and lighter

29:31

than a tennis racket making it a lot more

29:33

easy to wield by people of all ages and

29:35

abilities Right and

29:37

the serves are all underhand. So that's easier to

29:39

hit and return You can

29:41

set yourself up with a full set of like

29:43

actual Paddles and balls and

29:45

nets and stuff for about 60 bucks.

29:48

I'm not bad And

29:50

also lots of public parks have installed pickleball

29:52

court So you don't even need to go

29:54

to a gym or a club

29:56

or whatever. I bet that's it.

29:59

I bet At some point in the last

30:01

10 years, pickleball

30:03

moved from a thing

30:05

everybody was doing at like clubs and,

30:08

you know, like,

30:11

what's what I'm looking for, like a sports club, you know what

30:13

I mean, a fitness club, to like, we

30:15

installed it in the park. We have put this thing

30:17

in a public space, and

30:19

now it's being like seen more, and people

30:21

are going like, what is this? And

30:24

you can fit four pickleball courts into

30:27

one tennis court, right? And

30:29

most picklers, they call themselves,

30:31

play doubles. So it's a-

30:33

I would call myself like a Brianhead. Oh yeah. You

30:36

can fit a bunch of people, right? It's

30:38

not just two to four people

30:41

that can play. You can take

30:43

your whole, like, family out, and you can

30:45

all play at once, and people aren't sitting

30:47

on the sidelines. It also, it

30:49

really strikes me that it, and

30:53

I know I've already said this, but it does sound like

30:55

the kind of game where the

30:57

onboarding, the threshold for entry,

31:00

seems so low because there

31:02

isn't like a punishment.

31:04

It doesn't sound like it punishes

31:07

inexperience the way that something like

31:09

tennis competitively would, where you

31:11

could have someone who's played pickleball for

31:13

years and has, you know, hours and

31:15

hours and hours under their belt, introduce

31:17

someone new to it, and

31:20

not have that person feel like, well,

31:22

I didn't have fun doing this, because it was

31:24

just you running all over me. Yeah. It's

31:26

a much more like, the onboarding process seems

31:29

a lot more gentle. On

31:31

top of all these reasons, it

31:34

was a pretty pandemic safe way to

31:36

socialize. Maybe that's the tipping point. That might've

31:38

been the tipping point. You think so? Well,

31:40

because big outdoor space, you

31:42

could have more people playing. It wasn't

31:45

as competitive, so it was more fun

31:47

to hang out with friends. And because

31:50

of the kitchen, right, you have to stay

31:52

apart from the other team. So

31:54

if you played with, you know, whoever was in your bubble

31:57

at the time, as your partner, you had to... to

32:00

stay away from the other people, right? That makes

32:02

a lot of sense, actually. That might be it. Also,

32:05

like you have been having a really

32:07

great time, but some of the verbiage

32:10

is pretty fun. Yeah, man. Kitchen

32:12

and dink and all that kind of stuff, right?

32:14

Yeah, it's fun. It's

32:16

fun. And you get to say pickle, which is a fun

32:18

word. So dink and pickle

32:20

in the kitchen. Thank

32:23

you, thank you. Before

32:25

we go, I would like to do

32:28

a little bit of etiquette. Okay.

32:30

Don't giggle when people say dink. Or

32:33

do, that's part of the fun. Or do, yeah,

32:35

it's fun. That's the thing, right? We wanna, the

32:38

object of the game is to keep the

32:40

ball in play instead of like smashing it

32:42

into the ground or whatever, or making it

32:44

so hard that you can't hit it. But

32:47

the balls are bouncy. They do kind of

32:49

like go all over the place. And especially

32:52

if you have all four

32:54

courts in one of the tennis courts,

32:56

right? You might encounter

32:58

someone else's ball, but it's

33:00

important that you, number one,

33:02

respect ball ownership. So

33:05

you don't want to try and like,

33:07

if a ball comes into

33:09

your court, that's not your ball. You're not

33:11

supposed to like hit that ball out to

33:13

somewhere else. In fact, you

33:16

can even make a call, right?

33:18

Rope pickle. That

33:20

would be great. But I guess it's more

33:22

like ball on the

33:25

court or something like that. Hey, listen, pickle ball

33:27

community, we can come up with it, but you

33:29

can just say like, loose dink or we got

33:31

a wiggler or whatever you wanna say. We don't

33:33

say rogue ball on the court. That's not what,

33:35

that doesn't feel like us. Come on, we could

33:37

do better than that. All right. You

33:40

need to, like the rule

33:42

is, wherever that ball lands that

33:44

isn't there, leave it

33:47

there while you finish playing. And then when

33:49

you're finished with your rally, then

33:52

return that ball like by a gentle

33:54

roll, right back to where it goes. So

33:57

then the next one is, calling

34:00

out, right? When

34:04

in doubt. Call it out. No.

34:06

Oh. Call it in. Oh. Man, that's a...

34:10

But, Teresa. I know. I know.

34:13

But you... The idea of Pickleball,

34:15

right, is to like give

34:17

the players the benefit, right? Make it

34:20

kind of like easy and accessible. Not...

34:22

We all win when you call it in.

34:24

It has to rise, please. Okay, great. Great.

34:26

That's great. I love that. Because you see,

34:29

you have to understand that if the choice

34:31

is between in and out, if it was

34:33

something else, right, but you can't say when

34:35

in doubt, call it in. That's not a

34:37

good mnemonic device. But we all win when

34:39

you call it in. Now we got it.

34:42

Okay. I love that. I love that.

34:46

How about... How about when

34:49

in doubt, play it out. Play

34:53

it. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. No,

34:56

you're right. It isn't. It isn't as good.

34:58

So... When playing Pickle, don't be fickle.

35:00

Oh, okay. That's a good one, too.

35:02

So you want to give your opponent

35:04

the benefit of the doubt,

35:06

okay? So if they're calling it in, we're

35:08

going to call it in, it's fine instead

35:10

of fighting

35:12

over who was on what line and how, like,

35:14

all that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. We're in

35:16

the brine. It's all fine. It's

35:19

all fine. And then, like, the other idea is that we

35:29

all make mistakes, right? Not

35:31

me. But you

35:34

have to own your violations, especially

35:37

when it comes to, like, the

35:39

law. No. No. If your toe

35:41

is in the kitchen, right? It's

35:46

just fine, folks. I love

35:48

it. So you have to own

35:50

your mistakes, and everybody is trusting you,

35:52

right? I encountered this

35:54

when I play games with Bibi

35:57

and Donny, right? And they call you out?

35:59

No. And they, like... spin the spinner and

36:01

it lands on between, right? And I

36:03

say, okay, it's between the

36:05

blue and the green, which one is it?

36:09

And I ask the person who's spun it, they

36:11

say what it is and we have to trust

36:13

them. Which one do you trust more? I

36:16

mean, I trust

36:18

them both equally. Oh, but I know there was an

36:20

answer behind those eyes. You and I both know the

36:22

answer. We don't have to say it publicly, but we

36:25

both know the answer. That's a better example

36:27

if you let the person decide,

36:30

right? Because then when someone

36:32

else spins it and

36:34

they say, oh, I really think it's

36:37

green, even if it's blue, right? We

36:39

have to trust them. And this builds

36:41

relationship, it builds trust in the game,

36:43

it builds trust in each other. You

36:46

have to be able to, you know,

36:48

give it, take

36:51

people at their word. To another blue

36:53

era friends, it's like in Shadowlands when they're talking

36:55

about like, why do we follow the rules? Why

36:57

do we follow the rules? Because the rules make

36:59

it fun. Because if you just like change the

37:01

rules, if you break the rules willy-nilly, there's no

37:03

structure to it. And it's the structure

37:06

of a game that makes it a game. You know

37:08

what I mean? That's what I've been trying to teach

37:10

BB is like, yeah, man, like,

37:13

it would be easier if you said, why don't I

37:15

just land on blue? But like, then

37:17

everybody's doing that and it's just

37:19

chaos. And that's a different kind of

37:21

game. Yeah, we goes

37:23

on to talk about keeping the

37:26

game friendly and mindful celebrations and

37:28

things like that, keeping things positive.

37:31

Safety wise, you want to

37:33

make sure that you wait before you

37:35

cross the court until the the rally

37:37

is over, right? Obviously, there's a lot

37:39

of people playing in a small amount

37:41

of space sometimes, you want to be

37:43

very aware of your

37:45

surroundings. And so

37:48

if you wait for the break in play, give

37:50

like a nod or a wave and let people

37:52

know that you're you're crossing the court. Just

37:55

yell the lid is on. And that's how you know.

37:57

Is that it? Yeah, the lid is on. Wait,

38:00

you know the jars closed you just say jars

38:02

closed maybe oh there are closed and you can

38:04

like go across That's a good

38:06

one. Um, there's also a kind of

38:08

like paddle language to Reserving

38:12

like getting the next game on the court

38:15

And you know, there's like placing

38:17

your paddles and like the holder and

38:19

like waiting your turn with a powder on

38:22

the machine exactly exactly so

38:24

like I think that Really

38:28

the charm about pickleball

38:30

etiquette is that The

38:33

game is designed to keep the game

38:35

going the rules are in mind to

38:38

keep the game fun It's

38:40

supposed to not be very competitive which

38:44

Which makes it kind of interesting that there

38:46

are like pickleball tournaments with cash prizes and

38:48

stuff, but like It

38:52

is I just keep thinking

38:54

about keepie-uppy where like we

38:56

Keep the game going and that's how we win.

38:58

I Love it.

39:01

All of these pickleball

39:03

etiquette rules are

39:06

from paddle tech Paddle

39:08

tech is the premier stop for all of

39:10

your pickleball needs This

39:13

is a great article written a them. All

39:15

right, that's gonna do it for us folks a couple of announcements We need

39:17

to tell you first. We got some new merch

39:19

over in the merch store We have

39:22

a I think beautiful three McRae brothers and

39:24

a beautiful moon shirt. You can find over

39:26

there We saw some candlelight items available and

39:28

10% of all merch proceeds this month go

39:30

to the world central kitchen And

39:33

speaking of last year we were able

39:35

to donate over a hundred and twenty

39:37

five thousand dollars to eighteen different nonprofits

39:39

including harmony house the Palestinian children's relief

39:42

fund Immunize org equality, Florida the First

39:44

Nations Development Institute the Transgender Law Center and

39:46

world central kitchen So thank you so much

39:48

to everybody who supported us in so many

39:51

different ways which allowed us to donate that

39:53

money Like I

39:55

mentioned I am on Twitch if you want to

39:57

follow me on Twitch twitch.tv slash the Travis McRae

40:01

We want to say thank you to our researcher Alex, without

40:03

whom we couldn't have made this episode. We want to say

40:05

thank you to our editor Rachel, without whom we couldn't have

40:07

made this episode. And we want to thank you for listening.

40:09

This episode, we made it for you. We sure did. We

40:12

dink this for you, Pickles. What

40:14

else, Teresa? Also, thank

40:16

you to Brent, Brental Flask Black, for writing

40:18

our theme music, which is available as a

40:20

ringtone where those are found. Thank you to

40:22

Bruja Betty Pennant Photography for the cover picture

40:25

of our fan-run Facebook group Schmanners Fanners. If

40:27

you love to give and get excellent advice from

40:29

other fans, go ahead and join that group today.

40:32

As always, please continue

40:35

to send in your

40:37

topic suggestions, your idioms,

40:39

your questions to [email protected].

40:41

And say hi to

40:43

Alex, A-L-E-X-X, because she

40:45

reads everyone. And that's going

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to do it for us, so join us again

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