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1:02

Sounds Music Radio podcasts,

1:07

Hello, I'm Joyce, You learn and welcome

1:09

to shoot cuts. Today's episode is about

1:11

dreams. Let me tell you, I'm a

1:13

person. New dreams a lot And I

1:15

spoke to my friend, don't you he's

1:17

a dear. Friend of mine and he

1:19

said that it could mean that. I'm

1:21

never sleeping deeply enough with is. There

1:24

are a. I'm

1:32

recording this at half past eleven

1:34

at night. I'm

1:37

looking out the window of my office. In

1:40

the sky is clear and

1:42

freezing. And ah, I

1:49

love it when the rest of the house is asleep.

1:52

It's like I'm not quite in the

1:54

waking world. This

1:57

is shortcuts so. Brief

2:04

encounters. Everything about time. Using an

2:06

old cliche true story, the give

2:08

up the flow of public radio

2:10

advances it sounds, sounds, Today.

2:16

Injury. And

2:19

I respect to him. Done. And

2:22

ninety three mean. I

2:26

said cost is is a nice stream

2:28

and he said. And

2:32

gave me this burn a smile.

3:01

We go to begin with a

3:03

thought experiment, attend to and raffling

3:05

of a notion of time. Case

3:09

In Glasgow where I am,

3:11

it's now almost cool to

3:13

submit. Frosted

3:15

January night. But

3:18

what you're about. The here was

3:20

recorded one morning last December by

3:22

the radio producer. Nadia, Maddie. In

3:26

it, the artist and experimental

3:28

philosopher John Nothing keeps wade

3:30

into the visa with hopes

3:32

of making a new time

3:34

stand. It. Says

3:39

what times. While

3:41

to pass on how you

3:43

look at things here in San

3:46

Francisco at his ten Twenty

3:48

nine am on Friday December Fifteen

3:50

Two Thousand Twenty Three By according

3:53

to their rivers in Alaska

3:55

it is to fifty nine in

3:57

the morning on Tuesday Nov.

3:59

ninth. The Two Thousand Twenty Four.

4:05

Time. Keeping gives us

4:07

this extraordinary ability

4:09

to predict. All

4:12

those logistics local and

4:14

global make it so

4:16

that we end up

4:18

with that Amazon delivery

4:20

just in time. But

4:23

we have become increasingly

4:25

insular, increasingly dedicated to

4:27

our own delusions that

4:29

humans are in charge

4:31

and are in control

4:33

of the planet. What's

4:36

remarkable about. Planet. Earth

4:38

is the fact that

4:40

there is a plurality

4:42

of times every species

4:44

is constantly observing all

4:46

that's happening that is

4:48

relevant to survival and

4:50

to flourish and. And

4:53

that means keeping time.

4:56

And a pluralistic way.

4:58

That means not only

5:00

keeping time internally, but

5:02

also observing the time

5:05

that is manifest in

5:07

the behavioral patterns of

5:09

other species. butterflies maturing

5:11

in relation to win

5:14

flowers bloom when their

5:16

food becomes available. This

5:18

is a highly complex

5:21

system. a really delicate.

5:23

System that we have

5:25

seen thrown into chaos.

5:32

The seasons are no longer

5:34

what they were. birds are

5:36

just arriving in the wrong

5:38

place at the wrong time.

5:42

We need to think about time

5:44

as a service to consider what

5:46

service is being provided and what

5:49

service is appropriate to any given

5:51

set of needs. we

5:55

are living beings living with

5:57

many others as

6:00

beautiful as the stars may be and

6:02

as beautiful as clockwork may

6:04

be. They are

6:07

oblivious to all

6:09

that's happening within us

6:11

individually and collectively. I've

6:16

been thinking about time using an old

6:18

cliché, thinking about the flow of time. When

6:22

I visited Alaska for the first time, I was

6:25

struck by the rivers

6:29

and their fluctuation as a

6:31

result of the seasonal conditions

6:34

and also as a

6:36

result of climate change. I

6:39

started to think about how

6:41

these rivers could become references

6:43

or foundational even to

6:46

how we reckon time

6:48

and that all of

6:50

the variations in the

6:52

rivers could become

6:55

meaningful indicators of

6:58

planetary conditions that we need to

7:00

inform our actions. So

7:04

I imagined this crazy clock, this

7:06

clock that would have a water

7:08

wheel that would run a

7:11

clockwork mechanism where time

7:13

would speed up as a river flowed

7:16

more rapidly and slowed down

7:19

as a river slowed. And I

7:21

quickly ran into the

7:24

reality that Alaska is

7:26

harsh. Alaska has extreme

7:28

conditions. The water wheel

7:31

would be destroyed in the first

7:33

winter or the first summer for

7:35

that matter. However, it turned out

7:37

that the U.S. Geological Survey

7:39

had much better ways in

7:41

which to measure the flow

7:43

of rivers. They had

7:46

a server that could

7:48

be used as a

7:50

source for a digital

7:53

clock and that would set the

7:55

rate at which the digital clock

7:57

ran from moment to moment.

8:00

on the basis of what was being measured

8:02

on the river. Alaska

8:05

River Time is a time

8:07

standard that is

8:10

based upon the flow

8:12

rate of five different

8:14

rivers, three of them

8:17

glacial, two of them spring

8:19

fed. Each one of

8:21

them is being measured on

8:23

a constant basis, and

8:25

each one of them is

8:28

calibrating a clock.

8:31

All of those clocks are then

8:33

averaged in terms of their rate,

8:36

and that gives us Alaska River Time. I

8:41

worked with the Anchorage Museum to

8:43

create a digital clock that was

8:45

accessible online and also that could

8:48

serve the purpose that a municipal

8:50

clock does, this purpose of bringing

8:52

people together, of reaching

8:55

some sort of a consensus that

8:57

can be the basis for coordinated

8:59

action. The idea

9:02

was to center the river

9:04

in our midst as

9:06

a system that makes

9:09

apparent all the living beings living

9:11

on these rivers, all

9:13

the sources of water, the

9:15

rainfall, the water table, the

9:18

glaciers. By making

9:20

a clock that is

9:22

like the clocks that we are

9:24

familiar with in terms of how

9:26

it tells time, but not in

9:28

terms of how time is calibrated,

9:30

that becomes a way back

9:32

into the environment, becomes a way

9:35

in which we can reintegrate ourselves

9:37

into the world in which

9:39

we live. The

9:42

clock would be an observatory taking

9:46

the flow of a river and

9:48

translating that into the flow

9:51

of time. It gives this aggregation

9:54

of all the conditions that lead to the

9:56

river flowing at the rate that it does

9:58

and provides all that to people. people

10:00

to react to, to respond to.

10:04

River time can have

10:06

an incredibly profound impact

10:08

if it is integrated

10:11

into the systems that

10:13

are most influential.

10:15

And of course, the

10:17

economy is paramount. If

10:20

the economy slows down and speeds

10:22

up in relation to

10:24

environmental conditions, the economy will

10:27

help the environment to

10:29

remain in a state

10:32

of dynamic equilibrium in a way

10:34

that is fully cognizant of whatever

10:36

impact we might have as a

10:38

result of any given financial action.

10:43

There also are more creative ways

10:46

in which river time might be

10:48

used. Music is so visceral

10:51

in terms of how we experience it.

10:54

By creating a metronome that is calibrated

10:56

by the flow of a river and

10:58

that changes from time

11:00

to time in terms of rate, it

11:02

becomes a way in which to have

11:04

a sense of what the river is

11:06

doing to live the life that the

11:08

river is living. The

11:11

clock that we built in Anchorage

11:14

was intended to be

11:16

a challenge in a

11:19

sense to how

11:21

we think about time and how we

11:23

think about ourselves in relation

11:25

to our environment. And I believe

11:27

that that means having a relationship

11:30

with the rivers and with all

11:32

the life around us. So

11:35

what time is it now? Oh

11:38

it's now 3.15 in the

11:41

morning Alaska River time.

11:44

I guess we've been talking for more

11:46

than an hour, but on the

11:48

river not much has changed.

12:03

River Time was made for us

12:05

by Nadia Medi. The

12:09

music you just heard was prelude

12:11

in C major from the well-tempered

12:13

Clavier by Johann Sebastian Bach. It

12:16

was performed by Rand Lines and

12:19

set to the flow of the

12:21

Chattahoochee River in Atlanta for

12:23

a short film about Jonathan's work

12:25

made by Ethan Payne. Jonathan

12:32

has since expanded the project

12:34

to the Danube in Vienna and

12:37

the Chattahoochee in Georgia. He

12:40

hopes one day to have installed enough

12:42

fluvial clocks to create a

12:44

global fluvial time standard. Next,

12:59

an oral history in miniature

13:01

made by the American radio producer

13:03

Elizabeth Friend which offers

13:06

a glimpse into a

13:08

curious institution in her hometown. Linda

13:12

Fleishman worked at the Psychical

13:14

Research Foundation in Durham, North

13:16

Carolina in the late 70s

13:19

and early 80s investigating

13:21

reports of paranormal activities

13:24

and studying life after death phenomena. And

13:27

it is a great joy for me

13:29

to discover the existence of that organization.

13:37

We had a lot of phone calls

13:39

from people who were hearing things,

13:42

seeing things, you

13:44

know, the electrical sockets were talking to

13:46

them. We were

13:48

sort of on the radar

13:50

of every nutty person

13:52

in the world. There

14:00

seem to be a need

14:02

for meeting mystic studies or

14:04

life after death studies said

14:06

Bill Role. Started.

14:08

To Psychical Research Foundation. And

14:11

it was located on the Duke

14:13

University campus as. Far.

14:15

Away as I could possibly put

14:17

into mother's little houses their own or

14:20

one road and it was sponsored

14:22

program. I'm says university. What

14:25

the Psychical Research Foundation good was?

14:27

Try in a scientific manner

14:29

to research. Life after death.

14:34

They. Also did things with hauntings people

14:36

would say they saw. Gholston, though

14:38

haunted and will roll

14:40

his expertise was and

14:43

poltergeist. A haunting.

14:45

His place oriented but with

14:48

a poltergeist is centered around.

14:50

Usually people who ran twelve

14:53

thirteen years old are heading.

14:55

From same childhood and

14:57

puberty usually there's probable

15:00

a Bruins Athena kind

15:02

of activity star. And

15:04

they can get very. Mirrors

15:11

break in how. Far. A

15:13

roll of toilet paper on

15:15

the toilet paper roller would

15:18

disperse and to find. We

15:22

tried to set of role taught by from far.

15:24

can't do it. And so

15:26

they would try to do these

15:29

studies. In a scientific

15:31

manner, but it was very. Hard

15:34

to do. I

15:36

found out that it's impossible to

15:38

research really to have any kind

15:41

of conclusions. In the

15:43

end the last time I saw the or

15:45

all I did ask him as he. Felt

15:48

like he had made any progress in. Prison

15:50

life after death and he was fairly close

15:53

to death at that point. He had to

15:55

say no, Really?

15:58

All those years, I'm

16:00

starting in. That

16:03

particular. Part. Of

16:05

pair psychology really? the heat

16:07

Cicinho prose. I went

16:10

into the Peoria with a certain

16:12

mindset. But after

16:14

I was there for allow a

16:16

real I sit for the most

16:19

part everything could be explained. What?

16:22

We might have thought of as being

16:24

something. Eyes Net Remarkable.

16:26

Really wasn't that remarkable. But

16:28

in the worst thing said believed as can

16:31

explain away. So.

16:34

I I changed. I didn't

16:36

believe everything. But

16:39

I do believe there's E S P

16:41

and Blazers precognition. I do believe that

16:43

there are people. Who are haunted. That

16:46

I honestly think people just want them. sales.

17:16

Were going to stay inside a

17:19

dream held between two people. Through.

17:26

Made for us by and we cease and.

17:29

This does he

17:32

dreams. Sit.

17:37

Help always I cut with a

17:39

smile. I said good morning my

17:42

darling did you have a dream

17:44

last night and sometimes I did.

17:46

but then of course I'd say

17:48

to tell me about your dreams

17:50

and his team. So much more

17:52

Visage. This

17:55

one that I really do

17:57

remember his hope and. Some

18:00

john were on a offs and

18:02

they wanted to send the helicopter

18:05

to connect via the towel to

18:07

go visit them on the office

18:10

and he was terribly disappointed because

18:12

I said I didn't want to

18:14

gather which is quite like. He.

18:21

Was absolutely in. Seized by dreams

18:23

and I think it's a thing

18:25

about being an artist. If is

18:28

Encarnacion things a visual your pictures

18:30

in the has his pictorial sort

18:32

of brain and it's you think

18:34

of a dream and they all

18:37

kind of images that you're trying

18:39

to hang onto. For

18:48

for about the last ah eighteen

18:50

months for Towers and Analysis hospital

18:53

and some days the pain for

18:55

him was so great. so great

18:57

as he was a tough guy.

18:59

He has a high paying for

19:01

sold and it was at that

19:03

point that he went into the

19:05

hospice am and they were quite

19:08

keen to keep him in there

19:10

but he said no he wanted

19:12

to come home to die and

19:14

we had a beautiful hospital bed

19:16

to this or that. Put

19:18

you put in the middle of are sitting

19:21

room Say could see the gardener nord, his

19:23

sculptures and his dog. Poo

19:26

say comfortable that's but he was

19:28

still declining and about the last

19:30

three days he couldn't sands and

19:32

I think of see a stay.

19:34

He slipped into this say some

19:36

said me consciousness he was on

19:39

his way to death and I

19:41

knew that and it's just me

19:43

and his dog. I was system

19:45

with him that knights who says

19:47

how we had planned as and

19:49

at one point he was reaching

19:52

into the air receives the in

19:54

its and his the long legs.

19:56

Who can also bears and Ways

19:58

in runs any. There, and

20:00

I respect to him down

20:03

in ninety three mean. I

20:07

said cause is is a nice stream

20:10

that he said. It's.

20:13

And gave me this burn

20:15

a smile. And then my

20:17

darling man se Les relaxed

20:20

and then he developed that

20:22

strange breathing And then at

20:24

six o'clock in the morning

20:26

his his press stops and

20:28

I knew I had my

20:30

mans by the early when

20:33

a forty one years had

20:35

suddenly been taken by by

20:37

the camps. I

20:47

can't think of anything

20:49

more important than turning

20:51

tools. That's. I

20:54

love him and. He

20:57

has given me so much love

20:59

I can't think how m our

21:01

can ever. Possibly

21:04

repay such as vague

21:06

to pay it. I

21:09

see like has to

21:11

at least acknowledge that

21:14

and he's getting. His

21:17

huge. Love

21:20

is the best! Of

21:22

all and I think if

21:24

you can give the children

21:26

of. Never has it's

21:28

has. And

21:31

they never regret that mister. Mister

21:42

Nice about the officers as he

21:45

was able to talk to me.

21:47

Wasn't a dream. Or

21:49

was it's a sort. and

21:52

we assume dreams or something

21:54

you has a your sleep

21:56

under thoughts is something you

21:58

has a your consciousness.

22:03

But perhaps Vital was already

22:05

in an in-between land, in

22:07

and out of consciousness

22:11

and the dream and the

22:13

thought were

22:15

closer. I

22:24

would love to dream about Vital but

22:26

tragically I have not. I've had the

22:29

thoughts but not the dreams. Perhaps

22:32

I dream about him all day long. You

22:34

see our house is covered in pictures of

22:36

Vital so I can talk to him and

22:38

think about him. The first thing I sit

22:40

down and I sit down and I say

22:42

good morning darling just as we always would

22:44

have done and

22:46

his grave is literally

22:49

two minutes walk from our house and

22:51

there's a very nice bench there and if

22:53

I go in the afternoon it's got the

22:55

afternoon sun. So I do go

22:58

and visit Vital and look at his grave

23:01

and think about him and the other

23:03

thing that helps me I have

23:05

to look at that bloody grave to

23:08

get it firm into

23:10

my head that this has

23:12

actually happened because there

23:14

is a sort of disbelief you

23:17

know. How the hell can it

23:19

be that Vital's not here with

23:21

me as we have

23:23

done for over four decades? How

23:26

the hell has it happened that he's gone and

23:28

I'm here and we've been separated? That's

23:30

the last thing we'd plan for. Wouldn't

23:37

it be wonderful if I had

23:39

a dream of me and Vital

23:41

doing something whether it's dancing up

23:43

the laser tube at heaven or

23:45

falling into each other's arms or

23:47

gardening together or on holiday somewhere

23:50

I would wake up with such a

23:52

smile I'm sure I would remember that

23:55

But you can't will dreams. It

24:00

is only memory The Chinchilla Us.

24:13

The twenty one thing was on

24:15

track to this robbers he didn't

24:17

box which was sort of at

24:19

the bottom of the Apollo theater

24:21

was caught and somebody tell me

24:23

that special getting night I came

24:25

over with her friends. I have

24:28

been going on the disparate for

24:30

just a few weeks and were

24:32

sitting down and I said okay

24:34

I'll go get some drinks by

24:36

warped As far as I walked

24:38

to the bar this bloke oops

24:40

he's an I will never understand

24:42

how. Or why it happened. But

24:45

I was just so immensely attracted

24:47

to him. I

24:50

was dancing way today as you do

24:52

her every of somebody sitting at the

24:54

bar and I can and looked at

24:57

him and he can look took me

24:59

a moment later i looked again and

25:01

he was gone by the strangest thing

25:03

happens as as standing at the bar

25:05

is the appears of my elbow and

25:08

then he some the stood next to

25:10

me. I took

25:12

all my courage. In both hands. At

25:15

said similar set alerts gonna buy a

25:18

drink and I said what? what? What

25:20

are you drinking He said whiskey I

25:22

said all of which either. Oh

25:26

my god these aren't you. Meet

25:28

some guy to provoke set it

25:30

on Amazon, the gonna have this

25:32

devastating accents and he said money's

25:34

tell. Scientists

25:37

are sick He was so

25:39

sweet and lovely and gorgeous

25:42

and everything and I said

25:44

oh a. Describe our talked

25:46

and talked and talked and I'm

25:48

same to say the guy had

25:50

risen the with him for his

25:52

services took his bit of back

25:55

to the disabled because it's how

25:57

am I just engrossed in conversation

25:59

and. And then we went onto

26:01

the dance floor because it was a

26:04

nice little jazzy number. Then

26:06

there was a slower number so we were sort

26:08

of in each other's arms, just having

26:11

a slow dance. And

26:14

then we were dancing and then we

26:16

were hanging onto each other and

26:19

we were kissing each

26:21

other. And

26:23

I filled his hand going places,

26:26

I didn't think you could

26:28

go in such a short notice.

26:33

And I thought, wow, God, this guy

26:35

gets going soon. And I

26:37

thought, why not, why not? So

26:39

I said, would you like to come back to

26:43

my place? Why not?

26:46

And he said he would love to. And

26:48

I had this hugely unreliable two-cylinder

26:51

sitch that I had. And

26:53

it hated the rain and went outside and was

26:55

pouring with rain. And of course the

26:57

carpet and the stars. So

27:00

he said, well, why don't you come

27:02

to my bed sitter

27:04

in Wharton Street? And

27:07

it was lovely. And

27:09

it was very sexy and

27:11

everything. It was

27:13

winter. There was conversation on

27:15

the windows. And it

27:18

was quite cold. But I

27:20

felt I was sort of floating

27:23

way up. I

27:26

was walking on air because

27:29

I was free. And

28:00

recount. Recorded

28:03

by Ellery Stevens who purchased

28:05

and some designed that story.

28:09

To tell was speaking with

28:11

anyways see months before his

28:13

death and Jews talking with

28:15

her in December. Twenty twenty

28:17

three. He recent

28:20

fifteen basement for the Sooners.

28:45

Thank. You for listening to show cuts. I

28:48

really am. I really have about to go

28:50

to sleep. Ugly. Eureka. Oh

28:53

my shoes. So how does how

28:55

for the hope you're not driving

28:57

is all I can say. Settled

28:59

if we enjoyed the so I

29:01

am effort though already asleep. Is

29:03

this a dreams recently my little

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loot a fine said to me

29:07

money is a friend or dream

29:09

I thought of as is I

29:11

trailed Aleg and than other or

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is it off color jokes aren't

29:15

Hello. That ah is he enjoyed

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with say you can find

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Sweet Dreams. Specific.

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On Tommy and I'm having has been a

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journalist and a synthesis ready to tackle the

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a toxic relationship with nature the too long

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it's time to reset and Weekend Law loves

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Rare Earth a podcast from Bbc Radio

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