0:11

Hello everybody

0:11

and welcome to the Shut

0:13

Up and Sit Down board game podcast

0:16

that is all about board games and is affiliated

0:18

with the YouTube channel Shut Up and Sit Down put out

0:20

by Shut Up and Sit Down Incorporated. My

0:23

name is Quintin Smith and I like board games and

0:25

I'm here with Tom Brewster. Tom, do you

0:27

still like board games? I have a good relationship

0:29

with board games at this point. I mean, maintaining

0:33

any relationship is a challenge, but board games

0:35

are in many ways the perfect spouse because

0:38

they are... Cardboard, yes. That's

0:40

what I was going to say.

0:41

Tom and I have an interesting

0:43

episode coming up for you today because we just

0:46

released a video that was kind of

0:48

a manic task. We decided we

0:50

were going to review 10 small

0:52

board games in one video and

0:54

I don't

0:55

know if you've seen it. When we first

0:57

pitched and agreed to do this idea, which has just gone up

0:59

on our YouTube channel, you can go and watch me and Tom clowning

1:01

around reviewing 10 games. I

1:04

thought it would be easy to do. Turns out when you

1:06

sit down to write a script that involves explaining

1:09

and then

1:09

rating 10 games, oh

1:12

boy, it's bad. I

1:14

can say that now. The project is over. It was

1:16

a bad project and I hated it. One thing we didn't

1:19

do in the video was actually, you alluded

1:21

to ranking the 10 games. We didn't put them in any kind

1:23

of order. Maybe we could do that at the end of this podcast

1:26

or is that too cruel?

1:28

No, that's not a bad idea. That's a nice little teaser.

1:30

They are all good. They are all really good. We

1:32

chose 10 games that we really like and this podcast

1:35

is kind of an addendum to that video.

1:38

A companion piece. I like that.

1:40

It's a longer, sloppier, more

1:42

conversational opportunity. Worse.

1:47

A worse piece of content in which

1:49

we will just chat about

1:51

some things with the 10 games because when

1:53

you're reviewing 10 games in one video, you can't afford

1:55

to spend much time on them. Just a slim

1:57

page of a script on each game. So...

1:59

we can this is where we will place

2:02

the errata aka additional thoughts

2:04

we had on those 10 games.

2:05

We can luxuriate in

2:08

the minutia. We can. Come,

2:10

you know where I'm going. Listen up, wallow with us. You

2:13

know where I'm going right after this podcast.

2:15

Where? I'm going to Gatwick airport in

2:17

the UK. Do you know where I'm flying to? America.

2:20

That's right. I'm flying to New York. Then do you know where I'm

2:22

flying to? Ohio? That's

2:24

correct. Yeah. I'm going to Cleveland

2:26

and I'm going to be attending cabin con.

2:29

It's going to be kind of a secret because by

2:31

the time this podcast comes out, I will be at cabin con,

2:33

but the attendees of cabin con don't

2:35

know I'm coming because I'm just,

2:38

I kind of wanted to go under the radar. I'm not really going

2:40

on company business. I just heard it's a really great convention.

2:42

It's a convention that takes place in an American

2:44

summer camp, you know, where like parents

2:47

bundle their children off so they don't have to deal with them for two months.

2:49

So I'm sleeping in a bunk bed in

2:51

a co-ed bunk bed with a bunch of board gamers

2:54

who almost certainly know me from

2:56

the internet and do not know that this D-list

2:58

celebrity is coming to share a

3:01

room with them and sleep in the same

3:03

room with them. You didn't know that shut up and sit down

3:05

actually decided universally that

3:08

we would send you to cabin con because in this circumstance

3:10

we are the parents sending our

3:12

idiot child to get out

3:15

of our hair for a bit.

3:16

It is a bit like that, isn't it? None of you have

3:18

to deal with me for at least a week solid.

3:21

I'm excited. I'm excited.

3:23

Yeah. I hope you have a nice time. I'm sad. I'm not going. Well,

3:26

I have heard that Alan Gurding, designer of two

3:28

rooms and a boom has a prototype, which involves

3:30

turning a bunch of people and cards into

3:33

a haunted house. Oh my God. Through

3:35

nothing more than telling people to do spooky things.

3:38

So you can expect my podcast

3:40

returning from cabin con in a

3:42

couple of weeks. I'm excited to talk about

3:45

Gurding's game goo lag. You

3:48

cannot. Oh, I'm so glad.

3:50

Yeah. This podcast comes out while I'm at cabin

3:52

con. There's a chart like Alan Gurding is going to

3:54

be very upset that Gurding's game goo lag is going

3:57

to. You may just have

3:59

accidentally.

3:59

randomly name, renamed the convention. That

4:02

is kind of too good.

4:05

Before we get rolling on this, I should actually give the

4:08

listeners the list of games that we're talking about, because some

4:10

people might not have seen the video and

4:12

they might need to know what games we're going to talk about

4:14

on this podcast. So

4:15

in a brief moment, we're going to talk about spots. And

4:17

then after that, we're going to talk about for sale.

4:20

We're going to talk about hungry monkey. We're going to talk about

4:22

world breakers. We're going to talk about aquamarine and

4:24

voyages. And we're going to talk about trailblazers.

4:27

That's the list of games on this podcast. I'm doing the admin

4:29

here.

4:30

Let's start with spots. Shall we? Let's

4:32

do it. Let's do it. If people at home have realized

4:34

that's not 10 games, that's correct. There

4:36

are other games in the video

4:39

that you know, we've got to keep a little something back. We've got to keep

4:41

a little something back. And because we've sort of covered

4:43

those games elsewhere or will cover those games

4:45

elsewhere in a different podcast.

4:48

Maybe listen, we have a system.

4:50

It kind of works. Tom,

4:53

would you like to talk about spots? Okay. So spots

4:55

is a fantastic little push your luck game from

4:58

CMYK games. They made Monica's, they

5:00

made wavelength. Now they made a little game where

5:02

you roll

5:03

dice. You're putting, I

5:06

really love the manual for this game. It says dogs

5:09

have spots. Dice have spots, put

5:11

the spots on the dogs. And that's

5:13

what you do for the whole game. What

5:16

you'll see in front of you immediately is you'll see two little

5:18

dog cards that have spaces for dice to

5:20

go on, but match the spots on the dogs.

5:23

You will have a little kennel or the

5:25

yard as it's called, where you'll maybe have a dice

5:27

and a bone in front of you. You have

5:30

six possible actions that you can take

5:32

on your turn. And all you do on your turn is choose

5:34

one of the actions to take and then take it. And

5:37

each of those actions will involve rolling the dice in some

5:39

way and putting matching dice on your dogs.

5:41

For example, you might roll two dice, you

5:43

roll a five and a four and the five matches

5:46

a spot on your dog. So you put the five on there, but

5:48

what about the four? It doesn't match. It

5:50

goes into your yard, a little box where

5:52

all the bad dice go. If

5:54

the yard ever goes over seven total

5:57

pips, so as soon as it hits eight pips,

5:58

you're done.

5:59

you're finished. Your dogs

6:02

are bad. And you wipe off all

6:04

of the dice from the kennel and you wipe off all of the

6:06

dice from the dogs and you have to start

6:09

from scratch. Any dogs that you've previously

6:11

filled, because the objective is to fill up a dog with

6:13

dice. You want to have all the spots. Yeah. As

6:16

you said, as you chuckled about in

6:18

the episode as well, you have to fill up a dog with

6:20

dice. Once you have

6:22

filled in all the spots, you can then take

6:24

a turn to score that dog, flipping it over

6:26

and making it a permanent point towards winning. Six

6:28

points and you've won the game. However,

6:30

the

6:31

push your luck magic in this

6:33

game is if you fill up all of your

6:35

dogs, let's say you had three dogs in front of you that had like

6:37

maybe 10 total spaces for dice between

6:39

them. If you managed to fill up all of those dogs,

6:41

all those spots, you flip them all over at

6:43

once without taking an action, which is like huge

6:46

in a game where you might take like 12 actions.

6:48

No, not 12 actions, like 20 actions total.

6:51

Not having to spend one just flipping over

6:53

a dog is kind of huge.

6:55

Um,

6:56

Quins, I really like this game. Uh,

6:57

it's very good. It's very sharp.

7:00

It's very fun. I seem to remember there's a bit of, uh, when

7:02

I'm filming the beer on the video or when I'm filming

7:04

my lines, you said, Oh, the cogs are turning.

7:06

This seems fun. Yes,

7:08

that's true. I did not like how this game

7:11

looked at all. And I was very rude about

7:13

it, but only because I knew that it was probably

7:16

actually good if you were talking about it. There's

7:18

not, there's not that many games that just let

7:20

you kind of gamble with dice are there?

7:23

Like board games are so good at, you

7:25

know, like using dice for conflict resolution or

7:27

for, you know, like randomizing a result.

7:29

But the history of dices is, you

7:31

know, it's craps. It's, you know, it's, it's

7:34

a god of a million other dice

7:36

games that used to be played in pubs before the 1950s and board

7:39

games as a hobby have kind of gotten away from this idea of

7:42

just rolling the bones and

7:44

gambling. And it really sounds

7:46

like spots is filling that niche.

7:48

I think it's filling the niche because it has just the right amount

7:50

of inviting, push your luck in it. It's not

7:52

such a massive bonus that like you're always

7:54

going to want to do it. But when you want to go for it, it's

7:57

just like, it's

7:58

got that brain itch at the back.

7:59

of your head that goes, oh, you could do it. And

8:02

that ties into the way that you roll the dice. These

8:05

actions that you have are all named after a thing

8:07

that a dog does in these sort of like subtle

8:09

but thematic ways. So for example, walk

8:12

is one of the things you can do. You roll two dice, and

8:14

then you roll one dice, and that's it. That's like

8:16

not much risk. It's sort of ambling

8:18

and simple. Another option might be to chase

8:21

where you roll one dice, then you roll

8:23

two dice, then you roll three dice, then

8:25

four, then five, and you can keep doing that as many

8:27

times as you want, which is like Ava correctly pointed

8:29

out that it feels like you are a dog chasing

8:32

something continually sort of getting

8:34

more and more driven towards a singular goal. No

8:36

matter how much risk it may incur. I

8:39

don't think dogs talk about risk that much. And

8:42

then sprinting is you roll one dice for each

8:44

of your cards in an unfilled space and then repeat

8:46

that as many times you want. So obviously you're just taking

8:48

on more and more and more and more and more risk, but

8:50

it's so inviting to do so. So many actions are

8:53

roll this and then repeat and then

8:55

in like almost in bold as many

8:57

times as you want,

8:59

which is great. Also something

9:01

that we neglected to point out in

9:05

the video, or that I neglected to point out in the video,

9:07

this game is designed by John Perry,

9:09

who's the same guy. The guy who did

9:11

Airland and Sea. Yes. And also

9:14

I was working with like Derek Yu on things like UFO 50

9:17

and Eternal Daughter, which is cool. This

9:19

is like, CMYK

9:21

games do seem to be approaching that status

9:24

of a publisher who not just

9:25

reliably puts out good games, but puts out

9:27

different good games, which seemed

9:29

to, that's like the two best things a publisher

9:32

can do. It's a little bit scary. Like, you know,

9:34

Monikers and Wavelength fit in quite a similar category.

9:36

And then they came out with the Fuzzies, which is

9:38

completely bizarre, but still does kind of, I

9:41

think that all of their games do have something about, they're

9:43

all very simple, they're very approachable and they're very

9:45

stylish.

9:46

And I think that that's something nice about having

9:49

these differences in, I mean, I

9:51

think spots is stylish, you think differently, but

9:53

I think that having this through line

9:55

with all of their games being like ultimately approachable

9:58

and like kind of poppy is like really.

9:59

good even though there's lots of difference of the

10:02

kind of games that they put within that, if that makes

10:04

sense. Yeah,

10:05

yeah, yeah. Now, wow. What a terrific

10:07

publisher. Just go from strength to strength. From

10:09

you talking about hot new games, I

10:11

just wanted to briefly talk about For Sale,

10:13

because we've finally covered it. We've

10:16

fight like it absolutely breaking

10:19

the rule of our of the top 10 new

10:21

small games video. I just bunged in

10:23

a game that was not new at all, but because

10:26

we've failed to cover For Sale for

10:28

years. And I was like, I just saw

10:30

an opportunity and wedged it in. Like,

10:33

I was like, you know, Indiana Jones rolling under

10:35

a big

10:36

stone closing door. For

10:38

Sale's great. And it's from quite

10:40

literally before Tom was born, but it's been

10:42

kept in print since then, because it's

10:44

phenomenal. It's a game of buying

10:47

and selling houses. It's a game of two halves, where

10:49

in the first half players auction off different

10:52

houses, which range from literally like a sewer

10:54

with a string of fairy lights running down into it

10:56

to, you know, a space station, which is the best house.

10:59

And then what you're really doing in this first half

11:01

of the game is assembling a hand of cards for the second half.

11:03

You, all these houses you buy that, you

11:05

know, sat in front of you, like a little tableau,

11:08

you then pick up and you use them to bid

11:10

for checks in a slightly different auction and you

11:13

sell those houses and you get checks and you got a total amount of money.

11:15

And it's just great. Tom, I

11:17

reviewed For Sale in this video, but you

11:19

also love For Sale. Is that right? I do. I do

11:22

like For Sale a lot. And you know, one of the things that's kind of funny

11:24

about this game is that you say it's been sort of kicked

11:26

around the site for so long as this game that

11:28

like we always want

11:30

to review, always want to cover, because it's always good.

11:32

It's evergreen. It's like a really good, like

11:35

solid game to have in your collection. So

11:38

you gave this to me. I don't know if you remember

11:40

this, but when I started working for Shut Up and Sit Down,

11:42

you gave me a little bundle of games basically

11:45

going like, maybe you can go away and cover these.

11:47

And For Sale was one of them. And I think

11:49

that

11:50

it was less of a job and more of a test

11:52

to identify if For Sale is

11:54

truly the game that you think it is. Do you know what

11:56

I mean? Oh, I didn't tell you it was legendary.

11:59

I just gave you.

11:59

this like classic game from 20 years ago.

12:02

Oh, wow. It

12:04

was bundled with a few other games that like are

12:07

certifiably are not classics. Wow.

12:10

Oh, that was an accidentally cruel thing for

12:12

me to do. Yeah. That's I'm so sorry.

12:15

And I'm extra sorry, because it's

12:17

really simple card games. It's often very

12:20

difficult to identify that they

12:23

are great. You know what I mean? Like

12:25

a game like for sale on no thanks, like

12:27

there's nothing immediately flashy. There's no rule

12:29

that you teach and everyone goes, Oh, you

12:32

know, there's no fantastic theme. It's

12:35

just when you're playing it, you're

12:37

just having a really good time. And

12:39

it's generating mistakes that are really funny.

12:42

We had an interesting conversation about no thanks recently

12:44

where I think like the

12:46

game in no thanks is almost too thin for

12:48

me. Right. And you said maybe correctly

12:51

that I was kind of

12:52

missing the point. The

12:55

point of no thanks is that every single turn

12:57

anyone takes the whole table goes. And

13:01

for sale for me is is that it kind

13:03

of takes up that that small classic slot in

13:05

my collection where you're still auctioning players

13:08

are still going. But you know,

13:10

there's just fractionally more game, which is to say

13:12

I can reliably win for sale. I

13:14

cannot reliably win. No, thanks. It's

13:16

very similar to no thanks. The more I think about it,

13:18

to be fair, like it has that same thing of like,

13:21

it's about who sort of like chickens

13:22

out first in a lot of ways. It's

13:25

kind of like an inverse of no thanks in a way

13:27

that's really quite clever. And I do think that like for

13:29

sale

13:30

also generates, you know, generating mistakes

13:32

is a phrase you've used a lot when talking about that game.

13:34

And it's 100% true that like, it

13:36

is a game about agonizing over the fact that you spent

13:39

so much money on a mansion and now got as much as

13:41

someone else did for their like pig pen from

13:43

it. Like, yeah, yeah. They're like, you mean

13:45

when they're selling it? Yeah. Of accidentally

13:47

selling your pig pen for $15 million and accidentally

13:50

buying an igloo for 40 million.

13:52

Yeah, it's great. The covering

13:55

for sale for the video has also made me really want to

13:57

try for sale or to Rama by Eagle

13:59

Griffin games. which I just saw before this podcast, is

14:01

actually designed by Steph Andorra, the original

14:04

designer of For Sale. Oh, lovely. So

14:06

For Sale is a game of two halves. For Sale, Autorama

14:09

is an effort to turn it into a game of kind of three halves,

14:12

where you first bid on experts. It's

14:14

themed around buying and selling cars, where

14:16

before you start buying and selling cars, you buy

14:19

experts who know certain things about certain

14:21

cars. So I'm interested

14:23

to try that. And also, Tom, Steph

14:25

Andorra's cat... I also found out that Steph

14:27

Andorra designs Medina, which is a game I really, really like.

14:29

Oh, yeah. I both like it more and I'm

14:32

better at than anyone else on Shut Up and Sit Down. But

14:35

Tom, did you know Steph Andorra also has

14:37

a

14:38

bunch of fantastically named games.

14:41

If you were a designer, I think you would

14:43

name your games the same as Steph Andorra's

14:45

Bat Catalog. Can I name a few of these for you? Hit me. Slough

14:48

Off, Bucket King,

14:52

Niet, which is just Russian for no, and

14:54

Marrakesh, which is what if you were

14:56

in Marrakesh trying to get cash? I see. It's

14:59

just, it's like, it

15:01

really is like he finished the game

15:04

and then realized it was going to print in 11

15:06

minutes and had to name

15:08

it like immediately. Bucket

15:10

King is great. I'm here to try Slough Off. I'll tell

15:12

you that.

15:16

Another card game that is very different

15:18

from For Sale that we talked about on our top 10

15:21

small games video is World Breakers,

15:23

Advent of the Carnate, which is a

15:25

two player, head to head card based

15:27

battling game. And you did hit the nail on the head

15:29

quins when you talked about in the video, you said

15:32

that we cover lots of these games

15:34

or we have played lots of these two player head

15:37

to head games. And it's actually kind of a shame that we

15:39

didn't get to talk about World Breakers in our CCG

15:41

special, although World Breakers is not really a pitching

15:43

to be a CCG, but it would have fit right

15:46

alongside chats about Flesh and Blood and

15:48

Soulford Fusion as being a kind of twist

15:50

on this like head to head Magic the Gathering style

15:52

format. Although I think that World Breakers

15:55

has

15:55

a really lovely push and pull that is

15:58

kind of more aligned with Netflix.

15:59

runner than it necessarily is with

16:03

games like Soul Forge and Flesh and Blood.

16:05

Although invoking the name Netrunner brings

16:07

up a lot of assumptions and ideas about what a game

16:10

is and how it feels. It's just a light sprinkling

16:12

of that. It's not sort of as

16:14

core as, you know, you're not like

16:16

hacking. You're not, you're

16:18

not in the far future and you're not keeping like massive

16:21

secrets from one another. No, you're

16:23

in 13th century alternate history Asia.

16:26

And what do we always say, Tom? We always say for the theme

16:28

of your board game, you should pick something that you care

16:29

about and can cover with real specificity

16:32

rather than something generic. And it really

16:34

feels like the designer of World Breakers, Eli

16:36

Amir,

16:37

really cares about 13th century Asia. And

16:39

that comes through the game and I'm here for it. I'm

16:42

happy to play Marco Polo, trying to get

16:44

crystals from a weird

16:46

like magical spellcasting descendant

16:48

of Genghis Khan. Yeah,

16:51

no, let's talk a little bit about that structure because

16:53

it's a little bit Netrunner a little bit Magic the Gathering

16:56

because what you've got is in the same way in Magic

16:58

you play lands in World Breakers, you

17:00

buy kind of areas like I

17:02

don't know, a crystal cavern that you're mining for crystals.

17:05

And then they kind of tick off

17:07

over several turns, right? They at

17:10

the end of each turn, you get first off the level

17:12

one reward from it, then the level two, then the level three.

17:15

But if your opponent can punch through your defenses or make

17:17

you not want to block with your units, they can destroy

17:19

that resource. Is that right? Yes. Yeah.

17:23

And that's why the game of World Breakers is just by accruing enough power

17:26

and power is something that you can either get a little drip

17:28

of from those like locations that you play

17:30

down in front of you, or you can do it just

17:32

by fighting. And there's something really nice about

17:34

the fact that

17:35

the first two decks is something

17:37

that I love in games when

17:39

the first two decks that it gives you are fantastically

17:42

well balanced against each other. You have

17:44

one deck that's all about building up a sort of

17:46

blockades defenses, kind of keeping

17:50

their power close to their chest and relying

17:52

on that drip income. And then another faction that

17:54

doesn't really play many locations, but instead just

17:57

goes to town trying to

17:59

get through the other person's defenses, which creates this

18:01

like lovely asymmetry off the bat, which

18:03

then changes when you introduce the different decks of the game.

18:06

Also comes with this four factions in the base

18:08

game. And I also wanted to touch upon the fact that we

18:10

talked about in that CCG special, we talked about

18:13

Flesh and Blood, and when we talked about Soulful

18:15

Diffusion, the difficulty of learning these

18:17

games and how they can be

18:19

really knotty and irritating to learn,

18:22

because they just have like lots of, I

18:24

don't know, like

18:25

they neither of those games were a particularly inviting

18:28

learning or teaching experience. I think that's correct.

18:30

No, they weren't. Yeah. But World Breakers, you taught

18:32

it to me and then we didn't really have to reference

18:35

the manual for the entire time we were playing, which was

18:37

huge. Yeah. Or if we did have to reference something,

18:39

it was on the back of the manual in the most clear

18:41

player guide I have seen in one of these games like

18:44

ever. All the keywords do exactly

18:46

what you expect them to do. Like every

18:48

time we had a rules question, you looked it up just

18:50

to be sure, but then we were like, oh yeah, that works

18:53

how I think it works. Like

18:54

delightful. Yeah. That's such a huge

18:56

deal. Twist Ending though, you

18:59

and I really like World Breakers. We were really impressed. It's

19:01

like a new designer, you know, it's

19:03

an interesting idea. It's really, really solid.

19:06

And that's

19:07

none of that is that impressive, but

19:10

take it from us that it's very rare with these

19:12

kinds of games. However,

19:14

while you and I agreed to record this segment

19:16

talking about World Breakers and we were going to be bigging it up,

19:19

Twist Ending, do you know what all this discussion

19:21

of, you know, collectible games where

19:23

you deploy units and run them around and try and smash

19:25

your opponents resources? Do you know what this has made

19:28

me want to play? What's it made you want to play, Quins?

19:30

Summoner Wars Second Edition. That game is so good.

19:33

That game is so good. I really, I

19:35

kind of briefly forgotten about it, but my goodness,

19:37

it's like the best in class of these, you know,

19:39

spend resources to deploy units, run your units over

19:41

and try and smash the other, other team. It's so asymmetric.

19:44

And it was you saying I love when a set

19:46

has two different balanced against

19:49

each other. As soon as you said that my,

19:51

one of my seven brain neurons fired as

19:54

Summoner Wars written over it. And I was like,

19:56

Oh my God, I really

19:58

want to play

19:59

some summon Wars.

19:59

is really good. It's the presence of that board

20:02

in Summoner Wars, like the fact there's a physical space

20:04

that you occupy that's kind of like, it roots

20:06

it in a tactility or a physical

20:08

space that you can get into. Yes. And it's like, yeah, it's what

20:11

if Magic the Gathering, but you could chase the opponent's

20:13

magician into a corner and then have

20:15

them like erect walls and physically

20:18

cower away from you. It's such, it's really,

20:20

really nice. And I do think though that something with worldbreakers

20:23

that I think is like, we talked about it being in the

20:25

vein of like lots of these sort

20:27

of similar, you know, head-to-head card

20:29

battlers,

20:29

but worldbreakers does have a feel that

20:32

I really like of these very small scale

20:34

battles between like not many combatants. You might

20:36

have like two units or one unit

20:38

on the board going up against three units. You know, it's very,

20:40

very small manageable numbers having these

20:42

very small scale battles and also having something

20:44

that feels like a skirmish or a scrap

20:47

or a push and pull, because one thing

20:49

it has that it doesn't, you know, summon a wars and netrunner

20:51

and all of Magic the Gathering, all these kinds of games have,

20:54

I take my turn and then you take your turn. Worldbreakers

20:57

has a round of four turns each, but they're

20:59

staggered between

20:59

the players. So it'll be me, then you, then

21:02

me, then you, and it bounces back, which does

21:04

give it this very similar to sort of the

21:06

way that Flesh and Blood feels like a game of like call and

21:08

response. Worldbreakers is that with multiple

21:10

people rather than just

21:12

one body that you're piloting

21:14

like a sort of Torabash pro. Yeah. You know,

21:17

we mentioned Radlands during the Worldbreakers

21:19

section of this video that we did, which was

21:21

a Roxley games production that

21:23

you and I both really wanted to like. It's so beautiful.

21:25

It's again, one of these deploy units and

21:28

raid the opponents, you know, like resources. Yes. But

21:30

setting this neon,

21:33

drippy, post-apocalyptic Mad

21:35

Max setting looked great, but

21:37

relevant to what you're saying now, Tom, the problem

21:40

I had, well, one of the problems I had with that game is like, I

21:42

would take my turn and do a bunch of cool stuff and it felt

21:44

great, but I hated when you took your turn

21:46

and, you know, stumped on my units

21:49

and shot my sniper and attacks my,

21:51

you know, like, you know, silos or whatever. Yes.

21:53

Yeah. But then I got to take my turn. That was fun. Oh,

21:56

no. Tom's taking his turn

21:58

again. Yeah. And well breakers avoids.

21:59

that by just being like, you play a card and

22:02

I can do action, then you could do action.

22:04

And it's like, it's, it's, it's,

22:07

it's fast paced and exciting and feels a bit

22:09

more tense. Yeah, no, love it. Love that structure.

22:15

Up

22:15

next, I just want to talk for a hot second about

22:18

Hungry Monkey, a game put out by Heidelbar

22:20

as part of their line of, it's,

22:23

this is tricky to describe. Heidelbar have put out

22:25

a selection of little boxed games

22:27

that are

22:29

unique takes on games

22:31

you can play with a classic deck of cards. For example,

22:33

they put out Blaze, which is based on very popular Russian

22:35

game Duroc. And we reviewed what

22:38

we think is that there's spicy, which is based on the game Cheats,

22:40

which is quite good. But I think Hungry Monkey

22:42

has eclipsed spicy as the best game in this line.

22:44

And maybe I

22:45

might even say the only one worth probably buying.

22:48

Hold the phone. Oh,

22:50

they also put out coyote. Yeah.

22:54

Oh, discord

22:57

is cutting out a lot of noise

22:59

that you're making there, but I presume it's just, it's just

23:02

air. It's a long raspberry

23:04

sound made with my lips. Yeah. So sorry. Are

23:06

you going to go to bat for coyote now? Well, I've

23:08

bat for it more than like, I don't know, in my

23:10

Heidelbar ranking, like what I put coyote

23:13

like above a Nancy,

23:15

maybe I don't know.

23:17

Yeah. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't necessarily

23:20

go out and tell people to buy a Nancy or coyote.

23:22

All right. Okay, fine. But Hungry

23:24

Monkey and spicy made Hungry Monkey, most of all.

23:26

Hungry Monkey is based on the card game Shithead or Palace.

23:30

And here's the thing, as a game, it's

23:33

tricky to teach and not

23:35

particularly tactical and not

23:38

like enormously clever. But what Hungry Monkey

23:40

has in spades, in abundance, in

23:42

a Scrooge McDuck style vault is

23:44

this thing, this idea of flow. And

23:47

on the next

23:47

podcast, we're going to be talking about a game day that Tom and I did

23:49

where we didn't review new games, we just played games that are

23:52

just like classics that we thought, you know,

23:54

let's just have some fun. Yes. So on the next

23:56

podcast, you'll hear us talking about Taj Mahal, Samurai,

23:58

Mundus Novus and Parade.

23:59

And what you remarked when we were

24:02

playing Mundus Novus is like, the game

24:04

isn't amazing, but the flow

24:06

of it is. And

24:08

that's what Hungry Monkey has,

24:10

right? It's just like, you're just put... It's

24:14

such a peculiar state for a board game to have, because

24:17

it's almost separate to the game. Like the game

24:19

is the challenge, the contest is

24:22

secondary, just to this action of playing

24:24

cards, looking at a card, drawing a card, when it...

24:26

And it's alchemy, but sometimes that

24:29

just feels great.

24:31

Yeah. And I think it can

24:33

only happen in games that are on the simpler

24:35

side of things, because it's that feeling of like,

24:38

really worrying and crunching and focusing

24:40

on the game, and more focusing on the motions

24:43

of it. It's like you're less focused

24:45

on trying to do well, and more just pleased

24:47

by the act of playing with your friends, drawing

24:50

cards, smiling at each other. Yeah,

24:54

yes, smiling and doing like playful

24:56

things. And I think the thing that Hungry Monkey and Mundus

24:58

Novus have in common, is that

25:00

both see you working on a shared

25:02

thing. Like Mundus Novus sees you passing tons

25:05

of cards back and forth, in this big weird shifting

25:07

market. And then with Hungry Monkey, you're all adding

25:09

cards to a shared deck. So it's

25:11

almost like it's... It's like...

25:15

This is going to sound maybe a bit skeevy, but it's

25:17

almost like the sensation of touching

25:20

one another, but

25:21

without actual physical touch, you're touching a

25:23

shared object and amending it and tweaking

25:26

it.

25:26

Does that make sense? Do I sound nuts? You know, you

25:28

do sound nuts, but it does make a bit of sense.

25:31

Okay, well, I'll take that. In the same way that like playing

25:34

a video game together is like touching

25:36

each other. It's in the same way that parallel

25:38

play is, even though you're doing two completely

25:40

different tasks in the same room, yes,

25:43

it feels like you are playing together, even though you're

25:45

not. The human brain is weird. Let's

25:47

move on before Tom has me

25:49

sectioned. Finally,

25:52

Tom is going to help me solve

25:55

a problem.

25:55

Well, hold on. We've got Aquino Voyages first.

25:58

Oh, okay. Tom is going to help me solve... solve

26:00

a problem after he talks

26:02

about Aquarium Voyages a bit more. Very

26:06

very brief mention of Aquarium Voyages here, because

26:08

they are in the unfortunate category of being

26:10

games that are just really solid. And

26:13

that's the kind of game that is hard to talk about

26:15

on a podcast. Aquarium

26:18

Voyages are just two really lovely little roll

26:20

and writes. They're both made by a company called Postmart

26:22

Games who do print and play roll

26:25

and writes. They're four quid to

26:27

buy them and you get access to all future content, print

26:29

them at home, because everyone has dice

26:32

and pencils somewhere in their house. You

26:34

don't need more dice and pencils. I have

26:37

so many roll and writes now and

26:39

I like the pens or pencils in literally

26:41

none of them. Just give

26:43

me my own and that will be fine. There's

26:46

something lovely about the Aquarium Voyages. So they're these nice little roll

26:48

and writes. They're these very very simple core mechanics. Aquamarine,

26:51

you are rolling two dice and making an area

26:54

out of them that you're then using to dip underneath

26:56

the sea. Then if you use the higher of the

26:58

dice to make that area,

26:59

you will have to spend air

27:02

in your tank, which means that you will

27:04

maybe drown as you get

27:06

to the bottom. Voyages, your little boat

27:09

sailing along the sea. And there's this lovely thematic

27:11

sense of you roll three dice and you choose two

27:14

of them to like choose your direction and

27:16

the speed at which you're going to go. And

27:18

that roll kind of like, and maybe this is a

27:20

little silly, but to me it feels like

27:22

a sort of thematic blowing of wind

27:25

across the sea and you're just sort of catching it the

27:27

right way at the right time

27:29

to zoom

27:29

along to your location. Both of them are just really

27:32

simple, really enjoyable. And they have this really

27:34

nice arc where there are multiple sheets

27:37

that you get that kind of add or change

27:39

mechanics as you go. So the last one in voyages

27:42

is like a boat race. And Aquamarine has

27:44

these like massive sea creatures that you need to draw a huge

27:46

area to capture them in. And

27:49

that's it. That's literally all I've got to say about

27:51

Aquarium Voyages. They're just both really great, lovely,

27:53

simple roll and rights.

27:54

You know, I think the people are, well, I have

27:56

two points to make. First off, there's a weirdly

27:59

high ratio. of popular games that

28:01

feature drowning. Cause

28:04

ACK, Marine great game features drowning. Deep

28:07

sea adventure, very popular game features drowning. Bargain

28:09

Bathes is bathysphere.

28:11

Lovely game features drowning. Yeah.

28:14

Maybe, maybe this is the secret source that

28:16

game designers should be applying. Or more if a game

28:18

is under the sea, it should feature drowning

28:20

as a point. Yes. It

28:23

must have that as a mechanic. There we go. Deep

28:25

sea endeavor is coming out next year. And if

28:27

they haven't added drowning to the classic

28:30

Euro game endeavor, then I'll be disappointed. The

28:33

other thing I wanted to say is people are probably listening to you talk about,

28:35

you know, oh, it's only four pounds for these games. You print

28:37

at home yourself. People at home might be thinking,

28:40

I don't have a printer,

28:41

but you know what you do probably have people at home?

28:43

A friend who works in an office. And

28:45

the main reason that anybody works in an

28:48

office is to get access to that sweet

28:50

office printer, where you can print off as

28:52

much as you want in very glossy, full color

28:54

paper.

28:55

So go to your friend or family member and

28:58

just get them to print Acreuna Voyages for

29:01

you at their job. And in doing so, not

29:03

only will you be getting that printing for free, you'll

29:05

be slightly endangering their employment. So,

29:09

you know, that's just like a fun game that they can play as

29:11

they're making a game that you can play. Print 200 copies

29:14

of your print and play roll and write game at your

29:16

friend's office and get them into huge amounts

29:18

of trouble.

29:19

Oh, I love this. I love this. It's a game

29:21

within a game.

29:22

Finally, Tom is going to help

29:24

me at last with a problem

29:27

that I've got. So in this top 10

29:29

video, one of the last games we covered and one of the

29:31

best games in the video is the new Ryan Courtney

29:33

game Trailblazers, which

29:36

is a game where you are going to be using

29:39

the Ryan Courtney signature, which are little domino

29:41

pieces. And they really do resemble

29:43

dominoes, I think, in shape and feel and how you

29:45

use them. Except

29:48

in the first Ryan Courtney game, Pipeline, these

29:51

domino pieces contained pipes that

29:53

you would use to refine oil. In the next Ryan

29:55

Courtney game, Curious Cargo, the pipes

29:58

were instead conveyor belts on these domino pieces.

29:59

that you would use to transport goods.

30:02

But this is the third and even simpler

30:04

Ryan Courtney game trailblazers in which

30:06

you run or are designing like

30:09

camps in a kind of American national

30:11

park setting. So you are going

30:13

to be sort of like drawing paths through

30:15

the wilderness for people and you want these paths

30:18

to loop out from like base camp

30:20

so that people can go on a nice big walk on a path. And

30:23

then you put a separate camp for cyclists and you've got cycling

30:25

trails that run out from that. And then you've got a third

30:27

camp for kayaking and you are somehow carving,

30:29

I guess

30:31

rivers or like people channels

30:33

that people can float down. Kind of like you're

30:35

designing like it's a small world ride at Disneyland.

30:38

Trailblazers is great. You

30:40

can go and watch the top 10 video to watch Tom Wack's

30:43

lyrical about why trailblazers is great. But

30:45

Tom, I've realized that my collection needs

30:48

a Ryan Courtney game.

30:49

I do not need all three of these because I

30:52

just don't. That like, they are similar

30:54

enough that I've got limited space in my collection.

30:56

I don't need three games by an American man

30:58

about pipes. That's too many. So

31:02

which should it be? I

31:04

want the lightweight game of trailblazers, the

31:06

mid-weight but very cruel game of curious cargo or

31:09

the heavy euro of

31:10

pipeline. The low down here,

31:13

I think. So trailblazers is the simplest.

31:15

It also seats the most people. The

31:17

non-travel version of the game, the full box version

31:20

seats up to eight people, which is absurd.

31:23

I am never ever going to do that.

31:27

If I've got eight people around my house, I am playing

31:29

an eight player game that is designed for big

31:31

groups in mind, like Monica's or, you

31:33

know, deception, murder

31:35

in Hong Kong

31:36

or sederial confluence.

31:38

I don't know. Okay, fine.

31:41

Nevermind. That's a moot point. But trailblazers is

31:43

the one you're most likely to get to the table because

31:45

it's like 30 minutes. It's like dead

31:47

simple. You can play it with most anyone. And

31:50

it does still have the pipes in spades.

31:52

The pipe puzzle is nasty. It is mean. It

31:55

is really, really interesting in this game. It is good,

31:57

but

31:58

both of us do like the. sort of the

32:00

layer on top that is inside of

32:02

pipeline and curious cargo. And out of

32:04

the two, I think you most like

32:07

curious cargo.

32:08

Um, I do, I do because it feels

32:11

the most unique pipeline is a

32:14

like the 25% of pipeline

32:16

that is pipes. God, this is such an insane sentence

32:18

to say. I love the 25% of pipeline that is the pipe mechanic.

32:23

I love the 75% of it, which is like a

32:25

really solid economic game.

32:28

I like, but I don't know. I've got,

32:30

I don't know. Do I even,

32:32

ah, I'm kind of talking about myself around cause I was going to be like, that's

32:35

the kind of thing I have in my collection already. But I, I

32:37

don't really have that in my collection already.

32:39

You don't have the sort of like very math C

32:41

like get to market first that pipeline

32:44

has of like, it's, it's that sort of hard

32:46

edge of economics where it's like, there is a very limited

32:48

supply of everything that you need to steal

32:50

from someone else. The closest thing I have there

32:53

is like, I don't know, food chain magnate or the

32:55

estates or kind of cedarial confluence.

32:57

Maybe container. Yeah. Like I

32:59

think the thing that is so interesting also about pipeline

33:02

as a game is it's like,

33:03

I've not seen a game do that

33:06

thing that it do the thing that it does where it has three

33:08

rounds or three years. Year one

33:10

is very, very long. Year two is quite short.

33:12

Year three is like tiny because it

33:15

assumes that by year three, you have

33:17

an engine that is so ridiculous that you're

33:19

doing things that are like unheard of

33:21

in year one. Like I think the arc

33:23

of that game in terms of it being like a number

33:26

go up game is just so

33:28

juicy. It's like doing that better than I've like

33:30

ever seen any other game where like you

33:33

build an engine that is

33:33

so ruthless that you are just absolutely

33:36

churning out. And it's the fact that it's not points.

33:38

The fact that it's money gives it a whole

33:40

different feel like that is a huge thing in games. As

33:42

soon as you make your points money, instead,

33:45

you've got a different game on your hands and

33:47

pipeline.

33:48

It's just stacks on stacks. It feels so good.

33:50

Count point. I mean, oh yeah.

33:53

Count point. Curious cargo is small

33:55

and it's lethal

33:56

and it's deadly and it's so unique

33:59

and that counts. for a lot,

34:02

but I can't have pipeline and curious

34:04

cargo. Well, cause maybe this how you

34:06

justify yourself as you say that curious cargo

34:08

is so small that you can have pipeline

34:11

too.

34:12

I don't

34:14

even, but Tom, I've also got

34:16

here written down on my desk that I've realized my collection doesn't

34:18

have an Azul. I

34:20

need an Azul. I think

34:23

I need original Azul. Yeah, bog,

34:25

bog, bog, azul. Bog, bog

34:27

standard Azul. I might have to wait, but I'm

34:29

just going to wait until the newer Azul comes

34:32

out. Cause there's another one. Here's what we do

34:34

is you should, so there's, I

34:36

got the expansion for pipeline and I looked at it

34:38

and went, oh yeah, the expansion for pipeline.

34:40

And then realized that we can probably never cover

34:43

it because covering it will be the most dry

34:45

thing anyone has ever heard ever. It

34:48

has, you know, like, oh, it adds like new and variable

34:51

market tiles and people will just tune

34:53

out by the dozens as they listen to that part

34:55

of the podcast. Yeah, that's correct. However,

34:58

I'm sure it's great. I'm sure it's really interesting. I'm sure

35:00

it changes pipeline. And so I want to play

35:02

it. So here's what we do. You come to my

35:04

house and we play ourselves a bit

35:06

of pipeline with the variable market tiles.

35:09

And then you can decide on what pipe

35:11

game gets, gets the crown, gets the dub.

35:15

Okay. We would also, I'd need to play curious

35:17

cargo again. Which is fine. Something I'm happy

35:19

to do. Cause it's a great game. Let's play all three

35:21

and go nuts.

35:23

I don't actually feel I need to play trailblazers

35:25

again. You know? I had a really

35:28

lovely time playing trailblazers at

35:30

a pub. We played it three times in a row

35:32

and it was just lovely. It was just nice

35:35

doing a little puzzle. Like it had that flow.

35:37

That's the thing is it's like, because it's all pipe, it

35:39

doesn't leave you exhausted afterwards. Like

35:42

even if you can make massive mistakes and have real

35:44

problems in that game, it's still ultimately

35:46

kind of soothing as a game, which is

35:48

definitely not something you can level at either curious

35:51

cargo or pipeline.

35:53

No, I tell you what, honestly, if

35:55

I'm being totally honest with you, myself,

35:57

and the people listening to this podcast, I...

35:59

I'm both excited and ready

36:02

to see Ryan Courtney, who I think we both agree

36:04

is a great designer and do something that doesn't have

36:06

these sodding pipes. Well, he did bear rate.

36:09

Oh yeah, which I didn't like.

36:12

But did it, did it, did

36:14

it, did it, did it.

36:16

Hey,

36:18

if you like Shut Up and Sit Down content, if you watch our

36:20

YouTube videos, if you listen to the podcast,

36:22

I've got good news for you. We've now got

36:24

an additional kind of content that we're making.

36:27

It's called TikTok. It's a new app that I think

36:29

is gonna be really popular one day. I

36:31

think,

36:34

no, don't laugh Tom. I really think that TikTok

36:36

will one day maybe be as valuable

36:39

as- Ask Jeez.

36:41

Blogging and podcasting, yeah. No,

36:44

for real, Shut Up and Sit Down is on TikTok now. And

36:48

you know, you don't even, if you're thinking to yourself,

36:50

I don't do TikTok, that's fine. You

36:52

can just go to, if you Google TikTok,

36:55

Shut Up and Sit Down, you can go to our TikTok page and

36:57

watch a bunch of small videos. I've done,

36:59

Tom will have to beat this. I've done a

37:01

TikTok video called Top Three Games That Made

37:03

My Brain Shit Itself. Tom has done

37:06

the most unhinged one minute

37:08

review of Newspheored you've ever seen. And

37:11

we're just getting started.

37:11

There's a few more videos on there and I have

37:14

got a video explaining why Brass Birmingham is considered

37:16

the greatest board game of all time coming in the next

37:18

two weeks. Importantly, I just wanna stress, this

37:21

isn't taking a lot of time out of Tom in my day. This

37:23

is something, TikTok videos, the stuff we film on our

37:25

phone we can make them and edit them pretty fast.

37:27

So this doesn't mean you'll be getting any less Shut Up and Sit Down YouTube

37:30

videos or podcasts. It's just an extra

37:32

fun thing that we're doing to try and

37:34

achieve Shut Up and Sit Down's mission of spreading board

37:37

games to people who might not realize

37:39

they are dang good. Because say

37:41

what you want about TikTok. TikTok

37:43

is really good at putting your videos in front of people

37:45

who have not chosen to watch them. So,

37:48

and Shut Up and Sit Down's YouTube offering,

37:51

we can do a video review of a board game and it

37:53

might reach some people who don't know about niche board games.

37:55

But mostly now, Shut Up and Sit Down finds that we're talking

37:58

about niche board games to people who like niche board games.

37:59

And that's not, we would

38:02

like to be doing a bit more to be telling people

38:04

far and wide, this hobby is amazing. So

38:06

that's why we're making TikTok content now. Hell

38:08

yeah. Give it a watch. Have a little, have

38:10

a little loggle.

38:12

And you know, let me tell you, you watch all

38:14

of our new TikTok content in like five minutes. Yeah.

38:17

It's really like, just start from the top. You can guzzle

38:20

it. You can absolutely chow down on our TikToks.

38:23

You can slurp down Tom and me

38:25

being

38:26

real dinguses about board games with some

38:28

very, very pacey editing. And

38:31

actual licensed music as well. And actual

38:33

licensed, yeah, Tom put a music song on

38:36

his video that was a nice song. I liked

38:38

it. I listened to it.

38:39

I thought it was all right. What ocean level? Tom, I have

38:41

to go to Ohio now. All right. Bye.

38:45

Yeah. I literally have to

38:47

leave and go to get where I could go to Ohio. I

38:49

hope I have a good time. I hope the board game is of greater

38:52

acron and nice to me. I hope I get to play

38:54

some role playing games. I

38:57

hope that you turn all of this experience

38:59

into a listenable and good podcast.

39:02

Don't get always thinking about content. And I love you

39:04

for it. Thank you very much for listening

39:06

to the Shallow Butts Down podcast everybody.

39:08

Goodbye. Bye. Bye. Bye.