0:00

It's not fair that he got the bigger

0:03

ice cream cone. It's not

0:05

fair that she got more juice.

0:08

It's not fair that he got more

0:11

playing time in the soccer game. It's

0:13

not fair that you picked her up first

0:15

after school. Today we're talking

0:17

about fairness, and especially the difference

0:20

between fair and equal.

0:22

Hi, this is Danae. I'm

0:29

the founder of Simple Families. Simple

0:31

Families is an online community for parents

0:33

who are seeking a simpler, more intentional

0:36

life. In this show, we

0:38

focus on minimalism with kids, positive

0:40

parenting, family wellness, and

0:43

decreasing the mental load. My

0:46

perspectives are based in my firsthand experience

0:48

raising kids, but also rooted in my

0:50

PhD in child development. So

0:53

you're going to hear conversations that are based in research,

0:55

but more importantly,

0:57

real life. Thanks for joining us.

1:03

Hi there, Danae here. Today we are talking

1:05

about fairness. The

1:08

words, it's not fair, usually

1:11

come pretty early for most kids, especially

1:14

if there's a sibling or two involved. In

1:16

this episode, we're talking about some of the everyday

1:19

circumstances that we encounter arguments about

1:21

fairness, like he got the

1:23

blue plate and I wanted the blue plate. We

1:26

did an Easter egg hunt and she got four

1:29

eggs and he got 12 eggs. Although

1:32

this conversation is meant to be helpful, it's

1:34

not substitute for a larger conversation

1:36

about fairness and equality in our world.

1:40

So please don't think I'm trying to do that. While

1:43

that topic is of course worthy and

1:45

important, today I want

1:47

to introduce you to some new ways to think

1:49

about complaints of fairness in your home. And

1:52

as I always say, take what works for you and

1:54

leave what doesn't. Some of this

1:57

might resonate with you. Some of it might not, and that's

1:59

okay. We're all on our own

2:01

journey here. As

2:03

parents, no matter how hard we work, fairness

2:07

seems elusive for all of us.

2:10

And the truth is that it is. Getting

2:13

our kids to agree and

2:16

to buy into the fact that something is fair

2:18

is difficult

2:20

because usually they have their own definition

2:23

of what fair means.

2:25

When our kids use the word fair,

2:27

they usually mean equal. Those

2:30

things are not the same. Equal

2:32

means everyone gets the same. Fair

2:35

means everyone gets what they need. If

2:38

you had one kid that had no socks, you

2:40

might go out to the store and buy a dozen pairs

2:43

of socks, a 12-pack. And

2:45

then you realize your other kid only has a few pairs,

2:47

so they need some too. So you buy them

2:49

a three-pack and you come home, you give one

2:51

kid a 12-pack of socks and the other kid a

2:54

three-pack of socks.

2:56

That is not equal, but that is fair

2:58

because you have given them what they need. Now

3:03

most kids aren't going to be inclined to argue

3:05

about the fact that this

3:08

wasn't equal because they don't

3:10

really care how many pairs of socks that they have. Some

3:13

kids might be sensitive to this inequality

3:16

and have an opinion about it. But

3:19

because this isn't really a high value

3:21

situation, most kids aren't going to feel slighted

3:23

by not having as many pairs of socks, it's

3:26

usually something that blows over.

3:28

But it is a good example of

3:31

how understanding the differences

3:33

between these concepts is really important. And

3:36

it's also something that our kids really struggle with based

3:38

on their brain development.

3:39

You as an adult with a fully

3:42

developed brain know that your

3:44

kids have different needs and most

3:46

likely you're responsive to those needs.

3:49

And you see that those needs are very different.

3:51

If you have one kid that had a hard day at school,

3:53

you might lay with them longer at night and soothe

3:56

them more that day.

3:58

So maybe you lay with them for 15 minutes.

3:59

and you only lay with the other child for five minutes.

4:03

That's not equal,

4:04

but that's fair. One child needed

4:06

you more that day.

4:08

Usually, the tables turn, and

4:10

things do work themselves out. However,

4:13

kids live in the moment, and often they only

4:15

remember that example of

4:18

things being unequal. So

4:20

you're probably going to hear all sorts of comments when

4:22

you lay with one kid for 15 minutes, referencing

4:26

the fact that it's

4:28

not fair. You always lay

4:30

with them longer. You

4:33

never lay with me. This

4:36

is that all or nothing, absolute thinking,

4:38

black and white thinking, we call it sometimes. We

4:40

talked about this back in episode 219, simplefamilies.com

4:44

forward slash episode 219.

4:47

As kids grow, they develop an ability

4:49

to see the gray area. They're not so

4:52

black and white. But throughout

4:54

childhood, they do maintain this

4:56

type of thinking for longer than is

4:59

convenient for most of us.

5:01

So by asking your kids to understand

5:03

what fair means, you're

5:06

asking them to see the gray area. You're

5:08

asking for them to take a subjective point of view.

5:11

You're asking them to consider the needs of the

5:13

other kids in your house or the other kids at school,

5:16

whoever it might be. And

5:18

that's really hard. Not

5:20

only are most kids still experiencing

5:22

quite a bit of absolute black and white thinking, but

5:25

perspective taking is very

5:28

much in development in the early years.

5:30

When I say the early years, like the first 20 years,

5:33

or so it seems. So

5:36

I'll encourage you to be fair,

5:39

but don't try to make

5:41

it equal.

5:43

You'll make yourself crazy.

5:45

If our kids don't really understand what

5:47

fair means, are we wasting our times

5:50

trying to explain it? No,

5:53

we're planting a seed. But

5:56

also understanding that this is just

5:58

a seedling. They're not going to. understand

6:00

this quickly. This is something they're

6:02

going to grow into. You might see glimpses of them understanding

6:05

this as they grow, but you're

6:07

introducing a new concept and it's going to be

6:10

hard. So give them the

6:12

space to grow. They're a work in progress, as

6:14

are we. So

6:17

in these years, as they're trying to understand

6:19

what FAIR really means and what it means for

6:21

them and in your family and in their lives,

6:24

give them some grace.

6:26

Even if they can spit the definition out to you and

6:28

explain it to you,

6:30

there's a very good possibility that their brains

6:32

aren't quite capable of

6:34

really grasping the concept. So

6:36

they get it, but they don't really

6:39

get it. However, they will with

6:41

time. We're going to pause

6:43

for a one minute break from today's sponsor. When

6:45

I come back, I'm going to give you some more examples

6:48

of where fairness comes into play

6:50

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6:52

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and use the promo code SIMPLE. Thanks

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so much for supporting your sponsors. Back

8:04

to today's episode. I

8:07

gave a couple examples of how fairness

8:09

comes up in the sibling relationship. And

8:11

if you have more than one kid, you probably see

8:13

this a lot.

8:16

I've got one more sibling example for you. Let's talk

8:18

about bedtime and curfews. Pretend

8:21

you have a 10-year-old, a 12-year-old, and a 15-year-old.

8:26

The 10-year-old is gonna say it's not fair

8:28

that the 12-year-old gets to stay up later. The

8:31

12-year-old's gonna say it's not fair that the

8:33

15-year-old gets to stay out later.

8:36

But the reality is the 10-year-old

8:38

having an earlier bedtime

8:41

and more restrictions is fair.

8:43

It truly is

8:45

because at that age, she has different

8:47

limits and also different sleep

8:50

needs than the 15-year-old or even

8:52

the 12-year-old.

8:53

So is it equal? Do they all have the same bedtime,

8:56

the same curfew? No. Is it

8:58

fair? Yes.

9:00

You likely understand that from the explanation

9:02

I just gave.

9:04

Chances are good that your kids

9:06

are going to have a harder time really

9:09

digesting that and agreeing with it. But

9:11

know in your heart of hearts that it's important

9:14

to give your 10-year-old that earlier bedtime

9:18

to meet his or her needs.

9:21

So don't let complaints about fairness

9:23

or what they really mean here is equal, equality.

9:27

Don't let that get you off course. I

9:29

think complaints about the lack of fairness can

9:31

come up a lot in the classroom too. I

9:34

think about a kid who has special accommodations to

9:36

use a calculator during tests or

9:39

gets extra time on a test.

9:41

The other kids in the class might say, that's

9:43

not fair. She gets extra

9:45

time on the test. Or that's not fair. He

9:48

gets a calculator. These

9:50

kids that have accommodations like this have

9:53

disabilities or special needs. The

9:55

key word there, needs.

9:58

It is fair. for

10:00

everyone to get what they need. It's

10:03

not equal though. We're not striving for equal.

10:06

An important part of this conversation is also

10:09

that not everything is fair. Is

10:12

it fair that there are kids

10:14

that don't have food? They

10:17

need food. They're not getting

10:19

what they need. That's not fair.

10:23

But when you have two kids and one pack of fruit

10:25

snacks and one kid gets

10:27

more red gummies than the other one,

10:29

that's not equal, but it's fair.

10:33

They both got food to fill up their stomach. Now

10:36

let's move away from this definition of fair

10:38

means everyone gets what they need to fair

10:40

means everyone gets what they've earned.

10:44

Which is also true sometimes. Sometimes,

10:48

not always. Let's

10:50

talk about the kids who play sports and

10:53

say it's not fair because they don't get the

10:55

same amount of playing time as

10:58

another peer. Again,

11:01

that's not equal. It

11:03

might not even be fair depending on the situation.

11:06

But often, the kids who really

11:08

work hard and practice hard perform

11:11

better and

11:14

as a result play more. So

11:16

sometimes it's not equal, but

11:18

it's fair that kids get what they earned. So

11:21

a kid that is complaining that

11:23

it's not fair, they don't get enough playing time in a

11:25

game,

11:26

you can explain. You're right, it's

11:29

not equal, but it's fair because

11:32

that kid worked really hard.

11:34

My son plays baseball and he recently mentioned

11:36

that he has an interest in pitching.

11:39

He's one of the younger kids on the team and he has

11:41

never pitched in his life.

11:43

There's a lot of kids on the team that are older and

11:45

have been pitching for a long time. They

11:48

probably go out every day after school practicing

11:50

their pitching.

11:52

They work with special pitching coaches. Pitching

11:55

is a big part of their lives.

11:58

Should my kid?

11:59

who just decided to kind of on a whim that

12:02

he wants to pitch, get to

12:04

be a pitcher. Just because he wants to

12:06

be, should it be equal? Maybe

12:09

he should get to try, but what's

12:12

fair is if you work

12:14

hard and you practice hard,

12:17

you may perform better and then get

12:19

to pitch more.

12:21

That's the simplified definition, right? The

12:24

truth is that some kids, no matter

12:26

how hard they practice,

12:27

are not going to be good pitchers. They're just not.

12:30

And that sucks. If you have a

12:33

kid who seems to have to work

12:35

twice or three times as hard as

12:37

most of the other kids in the room to

12:39

get the same result, then you felt this.

12:42

You have felt how unfair

12:44

it seems.

12:45

I have a kid like this and I know it's

12:48

a hard feeling to experience as a parent

12:50

and an even harder sensation to experience

12:52

as a kid.

12:53

Maybe they don't have the body type for

12:55

it.

12:56

They don't have the stamina. They

12:58

don't have the muscle tone. They

13:01

don't have the attention span or the motivation

13:03

or the perseverance, whatever it might be, there's

13:07

some sort of skills that are lacking in their

13:09

ability to perform well. There

13:12

are some kids that these things come easier

13:14

for some kids

13:16

who are natural athletes who can just wander

13:19

onto a new sport field and start

13:21

playing and look pretty skilled at

13:23

it

13:24

and other kids who can practice for years and

13:27

still be clumsy

13:28

and not make the team

13:29

and not get equal playing time.

13:31

And at the end of the day, this sucks.

13:34

It sucks to be that kid. It sucks to be that

13:36

parent. And there are

13:38

going to be hard feelings, sad feelings,

13:41

because sometimes things are neither fair

13:43

nor equal.

13:45

And that's a life lesson.

13:47

One that we wish our kids didn't have to learn,

13:50

but they do.

13:52

And we have a choice as parents, how we're going to handle those

13:54

feelings.

13:56

Are we going to say that

13:58

sucks? It's not fair. We could

14:00

join in on that sentiment, but

14:03

if we're coming to complain about

14:05

the coaching staff and the decisions that are being

14:07

made, sure, let's

14:09

teach our kids how to self-advocate. But

14:12

additionally, we also

14:14

need to teach our kids some lessons about sitting

14:16

with disappointment

14:18

and discomfort.

14:19

So if you have a kid that is struggling

14:22

with fairness

14:24

and struggling with the fact that they're a parent

14:26

laid with their sibling for 15 minutes and them for

14:28

only five minutes,

14:30

we can use compassion. Say things

14:32

like, I know this is really

14:34

hard. It's okay to feel upset. I

14:36

know you tried your best. I can understand

14:39

if you feel sad. I know

14:41

that you wish it would be equal, but unfortunately

14:43

it's not. Now, none of that

14:45

is to say that we shouldn't advocate for our kids to

14:49

have equal opportunities. That's

14:51

I guess a podcast for a different day. What

14:53

I do think we should do is we should teach our

14:56

kids that life isn't fair.

14:58

And when it feels particularly unfair,

15:01

it's okay to feel sad. It's hard.

15:04

It's okay to be upset.

15:05

To get our kids to buy into this idea

15:08

that fair isn't equal

15:09

and we're not even striving for equal,

15:12

we also have to be okay with it ourselves.

15:16

So at the end of the day, when you go

15:18

to that kid who you only sat with for five minutes at

15:20

bedtime and the other kid who's out with for 15 minutes,

15:23

you need to own that.

15:24

I know you feel sad that I only

15:26

laid with you for five minutes and I laid with your brother

15:29

for 15 minutes. It's really hard.

15:32

He needed me tonight.

15:33

It's okay to feel sad. If we

15:35

want them to be okay with it, we

15:38

have to be okay with it. Moral

15:40

reasoning is slow to develop. Sometimes

15:43

it's hard for our kids to understand their own

15:45

needs, let alone the needs of others. And

15:48

in order to really understand fairness, you have to understand

15:51

what other people need.

15:53

Kids are very egocentric. They're very stuck in

15:55

their own heads a lot of times. So

15:58

it's hard for them to see other people's needs.

15:59

seeds. Which is why

16:02

this is absolutely a work in progress. If

16:05

you have a kid that is looking for everything

16:07

to be equal, see that as

16:09

a sign of black and white thinking, and

16:12

understand that the true definition

16:14

of fair, everyone gets what they need, or

16:17

everyone gets what they've earned in some situations,

16:20

that's a gray area. And it

16:22

will be slow for them to truly understand that. But

16:26

we're explaining it and we're planting seeds. And

16:29

we're acknowledging their feelings

16:31

and giving them practice sitting with discomfort.

16:34

It's not our job to make everything fair,

16:37

but it is our job to push our kids outside

16:39

of their comfort zone sometimes. Thanks

16:41

so much for tuning in. This has been episode 349, simplefamilies.com

16:43

forward slash episode 349.

16:46

Thanks for listening. Have a good one.