0:00

Yeah, I've been prepping for like a couple of

0:02

different roles recently, and my

0:05

mind, my braining has been just full

0:08

carrying around like multiple

0:10

characters. You know, as an actor, your

0:12

mental space is kind of your office

0:14

like that. That's where we do the

0:17

work, and it's so important

0:19

that we keep our space uncluttered.

0:22

And over my life, I've learned

0:24

that my surroundings play

0:27

a pretty big part in my own mental state.

0:30

Have that is anybody out there noticed something similar?

0:32

I mean, when your space is clear, your mind

0:34

is clear.

0:35

Today's guest, Bobby Burke, has dedicated

0:37

his life to the art of interiors

0:40

spaces while also championing

0:42

an organization that stands up against

0:44

one of the biggest killers of our time.

0:47

So lean in. I'm glad you're

0:49

here.

0:57

Hey, everybody, I'm here today with Bobby Burke. Anybody

1:00

call you Robert?

1:02

No, well they try, but Bobby

1:04

is actually my legal name.

1:06

It is that's Robert.

1:08

I am from Texas, so my name is Bobby

1:10

James, not

1:13

Robert.

1:14

So it's always funny to me when I'll

1:16

get a.

1:16

Legal document sent over to me and they've just assumed

1:18

and they put Robert on there, and I'm like.

1:20

No, that's not my name.

1:22

So it was never you were never Robert.

1:24

I was never Robert.

1:25

Yeah, that's everybody calls me Bobby

1:27

except for Caramo, my cathmate, which

1:30

is the only person that is allowed to call me Bob.

1:32

I say, okay, yeah,

1:36

it's funny. We I just

1:38

ask about names. I don't really know why, but I

1:41

think part of it is because I just don't like mine,

1:44

and so I'm

1:46

always curious how people feel about their own names.

1:49

And I have this funny thing where, speaking

1:51

of Bobby, like, I like the name keV,

1:54

but much better than Kevin by

1:57

the same token. I feel

1:59

like people can Kevu a little too early, you

2:02

know what I mean. Yeah, it's like are you having me already?

2:04

Like like we literally like like literally

2:06

you just took my order. Yeah.

2:08

I was kind of like, I'll get an

2:10

email where somebody calls me Bob and I'm like, what,

2:13

No. And that's a triggering

2:15

one because my mom, when I was little, people would call me

2:17

Bob and She's like, don't call him Bob. That's an old

2:19

man's name. And so that was ingrained in

2:21

my mind, and so when I hear Bob, I think of an old man's

2:23

name. But when I was little, I couldn't stand Bobby.

2:25

I didn't like the name, so I tried

2:28

to I tried to switch it up.

2:29

My middle name is James.

2:30

I tried to get people to call me James, and that

2:32

never happened. And then I had the bright idea to

2:35

go by BJ, which

2:37

luckily, my mom, without

2:39

explaining to me why I shouldn't go by

2:41

BJ, talk me out of going

2:44

by BJH, that's funny.

2:46

That's funny. That's along the same lines

2:49

as when I when my wife was pregnant and

2:51

I told her that I thought Macon was

2:53

a good name for our son, and

2:56

she's like, Macon bake.

2:59

No, that's make it Bacon.

3:01

Oh, that'd be kind of fun, though, I mean not forever,

3:03

but that would be fun.

3:04

He would hate us forever. So

3:07

now we have a goat. We have a goat named Macon.

3:09

But but and he doesn't, he doesn't hate

3:11

us. What part of Texas are you from?

3:13

Originally from Houston or Alvin, Texas

3:15

is a little a little suburb in the southern part of Houston,

3:18

home of Nolan Ryan.

3:19

That's the only thing it's famous for.

3:21

Okay, Okay, I

3:24

have a band and we we often play

3:27

Texas. We're actually just on our way out there, doing

3:29

four shows in Texas in about

3:32

a week. And uh, it's

3:34

it's always, it's always amazing. How

3:36

long were did you? Did you spend most of your

3:38

child out there?

3:39

No, I we instantly moved

3:42

to Missouri, but my

3:44

hands and uncles, my grandparents, they were all in Texas,

3:46

so I would I would spend my summers there.

3:48

So I grew up between Missouri and Texas.

3:52

Houston in the summer, there's a climate.

3:54

Yeah, of all the times to go to Houston

3:56

in summer was not the best time.

3:59

Yeah, So what was it do you

4:01

think that got you into uh,

4:04

design and and and decorating

4:06

and just tell me that path. I mean, it's it's well.

4:09

First off, let me just say that it's

4:11

so fun to talk to you because a

4:14

lot of you know who I

4:16

ended up speaking to and these podcasts

4:19

are actors and musicians and

4:23

not. I mean, we had a sort of out of the box episode

4:26

where I was speaking to Deepak Chopra,

4:28

But but it's mostly been kind of like people.

4:31

I mean, I know that you are in the entertainment industry,

4:33

but but you come to it from

4:35

something that a lot of people would be surprised

4:38

about, but it's it's one of my passions

4:40

and one of my favorite kind of things and interests

4:43

is design and

4:46

architecture. And I

4:51

it's not that I'm I'm good at it or

4:53

really know much about it, but it's just been

4:55

something that I've always kind of loved and

4:58

I I

5:00

I think probably if I wasn't an

5:02

actor or a musician, I think that's probably what I would

5:05

be doing. So so it's fun.

5:07

So I'm curious from your standpoint,

5:09

what kind of drew you to this.

5:12

You know, what I was little, designed

5:15

wasn't something I really

5:17

thought of as like a career or

5:19

a path. It was just something that I

5:22

always kind of got. I remember when

5:24

I was like five or six years old, my

5:27

mom had decorated my bedroom and all

5:29

red, like red curtains, red

5:31

bedspread, red rug, red pillows,

5:33

and I just, even as a little kid, I was like, this

5:36

is not this is not this is not the plot,

5:38

This is not relaxing to me. You

5:41

know, this is giving me anxiety, even though

5:43

you know, obviously I didn't even know what the word anxiety was

5:45

back then, but I was just like, I need

5:48

to do something different.

5:49

So I, you know, I feel like I'm at the Mustang

5:51

ranch or something.

5:52

Yeah, my aunts and grandma would

5:54

always send me, you know, these little twenty dollars checks for my birthday,

5:56

and so I used up all my twenty dollars

5:59

checks to get betting and new curtains,

6:01

you know, as like a little kid. And I

6:03

found this like dinosaur poster because I was assessed

6:05

with dinosaurs that had all these blues

6:07

and greens and yellows in it. And I kind of coordinated

6:10

the pillows on the bed to this poster, and

6:12

I just I knew it made me feel

6:15

better. I knew the blue was more relaxing,

6:18

you know. And again I couldn't articulate

6:20

that as a child, I didn't know why.

6:22

I just had a feeling.

6:23

And so my whole life, I've understood

6:25

the power of transforming

6:28

your space can really transform your

6:30

whole attitude.

6:31

It could really.

6:31

Transform your life. Honestly, you

6:33

know, that's what I do all queer I had transformed

6:35

people's lives by transforming their space. And

6:38

throughout my teens,

6:40

you know, I left home at fifteen, and at some

6:42

points I was homeless, and so like the feeling

6:46

of home was very important to me now, because

6:48

for a while I didn't have a home, so that the

6:50

feeling of.

6:51

Safety, you know.

6:52

And even when I was living

6:54

in my car, you know, I always kept it

6:57

organized and I would I would have betting

6:59

in the back, and I would make the bed every day.

7:01

You know.

7:01

I wasn't one of those people that lived in their car that you could

7:04

see that lived in their car. And

7:06

when I finally got apartments, you know, I made

7:08

sure that I really, even if it

7:10

was stuff that I would find on the street, I would

7:13

set up my home to or what made me feel

7:15

comfortable and safe and secure. And

7:18

you know, I I you know,

7:20

I left home at fifteen, Like I said, I left

7:22

high school at fifteen, so I didn't I

7:25

don't have a formal education.

7:26

And design it's something I've kind.

7:27

Of self taught myself, but

7:31

I've always been.

7:31

Drawn to it.

7:32

And so I was lucky enough that, you know, I ended up working

7:34

in retail stores and the retail management, and

7:36

then I got I started working

7:39

at retail furniture stores, and which

7:41

is how I kind of got into the furniture

7:43

industry. And then I started

7:45

I started my own retail company.

7:48

I first started selling furniture online on

7:50

Bobby Burke dot com. I worked for a company called

7:52

Portico in New York, and I

7:55

had built their e commerce division and one day, unfortunately

7:57

they went bankrupt and I'm like, well, crap,

8:00

what am I.

8:00

Going to do?

8:00

And so I come to the database I had

8:02

built for them. I put it on Bobby burg

8:04

home dot com and I'm like, maybe I'll sell itself or

8:07

two while I look for another job.

8:08

But it did well.

8:10

I was one of the first online retailer selling

8:12

furniture online.

8:13

I stopped on the website just in

8:16

preparation for this, and it's really it's

8:18

pretty impressive. I mean it's very impressive,

8:20

you know, I thank you. There's so much, so

8:23

much. It's really it's what's much

8:25

more than design. If anybody's never been on there, it's

8:27

kind of like a lifestyle. I mean, I saw you have some you

8:29

had a thing with a cattlebell, workout

8:32

or something like that.

8:33

Yeah, it's all about lifestyle and

8:36

living healthy, not just with design, but with

8:38

food, with fitness, with travel, with

8:41

all kinds of things. But then

8:43

after the website it did really well. So I opened

8:45

up my own stores and I had stores in New York

8:47

and Miami and Atlanta and LA and they

8:49

were all retail furniture and accessories

8:52

and home decor, and I would help

8:54

my customers pick out stuff for their houses and help design

8:56

their houses. And then I realized that

8:58

that was way more fun and I had way

9:00

more passion to do that than I did running a retail

9:03

company. So I opened

9:05

up a design division and that started

9:07

being quite successful. So as that gained

9:10

more traction, I started closing stores as

9:12

leases were.

9:12

Up and solely focused on design.

9:15

And then where I came along two years later, and

9:17

oh.

9:17

That's where I am at.

9:18

Okay, so you had so you had

9:20

like brick and mortar retail stores and you close

9:22

them up. Yeah, but you held on to the website.

9:25

Yeah. Yeah, the website is an

9:27

editorial website. Now we actually don't sell anything

9:30

on our web.

9:30

Oh okay, Oh yeah, there's no connection.

9:32

How do you make the choices for like what you steer

9:35

people to? I mean there has to be some kind of a connection

9:37

there though.

9:38

If it looks good. Yeah, And I mean I also

9:40

do have my own collections that I've designed, but

9:42

I don't really actually, I think

9:45

you can buy my rugs and maybe like my wallpaper

9:47

on the website, that's it. And even

9:50

that, honestly, I'm trying to get away from

9:52

I just like my retail partners to handle

9:54

that. And my website. I like to

9:56

just be a place that you can come and find

9:58

beautiful things, and if

10:01

we use a product from somebody else, we link to

10:03

it so you can find it.

10:04

Yeah, and it seems like you have all kinds

10:07

of like price points on there. It's not like super

10:09

super high end necessary.

10:10

Yeah, you know, I've always tried

10:13

to make my brand accessible.

10:15

You know, from the moment I.

10:16

Had my stores and A because I

10:18

think design should be for everybody, and

10:22

B I opened.

10:22

Up my first store.

10:25

November two thousand and seven, and then, of course

10:27

or January, I think February two thousand

10:29

and eight, the whole economy crashed

10:32

and collapsed and bear Stearn's Clothes

10:34

and I had to make.

10:35

A quick decision on where my brand was

10:37

going.

10:37

To go, if it was going to go super high end, if it

10:39

was going to be accessible, and I decided I

10:42

wanted it to be accessible, and I've stayed true

10:44

to them.

10:50

I want to lean in a little bit to this idea

10:53

of the emotional

10:55

connection that people have

10:58

to their living spaces because they don't think that it's

11:00

like necessarily spoken

11:03

about all that often. I

11:05

mean, I I

11:08

mean, because I think a lot of people would look

11:10

at something like the furniture,

11:14

Uh, you know, you knew that you didn't want red

11:16

walls, right, A lot of people would

11:18

say, I don't know, the red walls are

11:20

finding me. I think about my brother who actually

11:22

was him and his wife were actually

11:25

on Queer Eye many many years ago, uh.

11:27

The straight Guy.

11:29

Yeah, original show. They

11:31

did their their their apartment in New

11:33

York, came and did their apartment. I was actually on

11:35

the episode myself. I mean, I you know, showed

11:37

up when the during the big reveal and

11:39

the whole thing. And he's

11:42

not a guy that really he will

11:44

say like he doesn't. He claims

11:46

that he just doesn't see stuff like

11:48

he'll he would never walk

11:51

into a place and say, uh,

11:54

I don't like the way this this looks

11:56

necessarily you know he he

11:58

he Uh. That's

12:01

his own kind of assessment of him. But I do

12:03

think that he has a really a really

12:05

good eye actually, and

12:07

I think that I guess my question

12:09

is, if you're not somebody that considers yourself,

12:15

you know, sensitive to your surroundings.

12:19

How do you talk somebody

12:21

into the idea that whatever

12:24

the furniture, whatever their their

12:26

you know, overall space is

12:28

like is going to give them some kind of internal

12:30

peace or or happiness. Because

12:32

I think a lot of people would go, I don't care. You know, I'm

12:35

happy in a motel sex.

12:38

I think there are there are those people who just who

12:40

think that, and and you know, from

12:43

one hand they might be right, but I think

12:45

on another hand, they don't realize

12:48

just how much your your

12:50

surroundings can affect you. And

12:53

you know, for example, like a clutter and

12:55

chaos around you, like they'd be like, oh, it

12:57

doesn't bother me. Subconsciously

13:01

it does. You know, chaos around

13:03

you really does create chaos in your mind,

13:05

and you may not realize that that might

13:07

be one of the reasons why you're getting anxiety or

13:09

you're stressed out. But you know, when

13:11

you finally do deal with that clutter and you organize

13:14

everything, you kind of take a breath and you're like, Okay,

13:17

wow, I thought that didn't affect

13:19

me, but god, I do feel that there's

13:21

a weight.

13:22

Lifted off my shoulder. So yes, there's

13:24

absolutely those people that are like, ah, that doesn't

13:26

bother me. I don't care. You know, my husband was

13:28

the same way.

13:29

You know, for years, We've been together for twenty years,

13:31

and I used to always be able to

13:33

do whatever I wanted at the home because he just didn't

13:35

care.

13:35

It didn't bother him.

13:37

But over the years, having watched me transform

13:40

our spaces and having seen

13:42

how it has changed the way he feels about

13:44

the space and changed his outlook

13:46

and changed stress levels. Now,

13:49

unfortunately for me, now he has opinions,

13:53

and now I don't just get to do whatever I want.

13:55

He wants to be a part of everything we do in our homes.

13:57

That's all.

13:58

So I think once people will kind of

14:00

experience some type of transformation, then

14:03

they're like, oh, this is better.

14:05

I thought I was fine and I thought it was good, But you're

14:07

you're right, this did.

14:09

Have an effect on me that I did not think

14:11

it would.

14:12

Yeah, yeah, I mean I also

14:14

think that I don't know how

14:16

you feel, but have you noticed with either

14:19

with clients or or with people that you know

14:21

or friends or whatever, that over time,

14:24

your your needs in terms

14:26

of things like clutter, actually

14:28

sort of change. Like I've gotten to the point

14:31

where I just I want

14:33

less and less stuff like like

14:35

like, I got so much stuff in my head.

14:38

There's you know, the hard drive is so overloaded

14:41

right now with junk and

14:45

and and you know, work

14:48

in the world and everything that when I'm I

14:50

mean, you never know it from my background, but I've

14:52

just happened to be I just have to be in the room. It just

14:54

has a ton of shit in it. But but

14:57

but yeah, I I I feel

14:59

like and I think my wife has sort of

15:02

gotten there too. You

15:04

know, when we first met, I

15:07

started out as a super messy person.

15:10

I was, you know, I would just throw

15:12

towels on the floor and you know, the whole thing. When I

15:14

was, you know, a young single guy, and

15:16

I lived in a complete shithole,

15:19

was roach infested and

15:21

and you know, ate out of a pot. I

15:23

mean it was it was bad. And

15:27

I thought maybe I would always be like that,

15:30

And but I really have transformed

15:32

a lot. And when I met her, she

15:34

was pretty messy too. And now boy,

15:36

she's like she's worse than me. I

15:39

mean, she just wants things, you

15:41

know, nice, and once things are, once

15:43

things are nice, that's when she can breathe.

15:46

Yeah, I think it goes back to what we were just scerring about that.

15:48

You know, your brother was like, oh, it doesn't bother me.

15:50

I don't see things, and back then

15:52

you did neither. But over time

15:54

you evolved to see that, Oh, when

15:56

I pick up after myself, when I keep things

15:59

less cluttered, it makes a huge

16:01

difference for me mentally, you know, because

16:03

there's so much going on in our minds,

16:05

especially in our industry, we have so many things

16:07

that we're thinking about that we can't

16:09

have that chaos around you. So I think it is something

16:12

that as a person you have evolved

16:14

to realize that the space around

16:16

you has a huge effect on what's

16:19

going on inside your head.

16:20

And I know you're must

16:23

take up a lot of time doing queer Eye,

16:25

but do you still have time

16:27

for individual clients? Are you

16:29

still working with people in that capacity?

16:31

So I still have a full

16:33

time design firm. So I think in twenty

16:36

twenty three we did sixty homes.

16:38

Oh my god, sixty homes in one year.

16:41

Yeah, wow, how do you have time for that?

16:43

I mean, I have an amazing team. Wow.

16:46

You know, most of the people that have worked for me

16:48

have been with me for years

16:50

and years. You know, it's people

16:52

that started out designing you know, my big guy that runs

16:54

my design firm. He started out as my one

16:57

single employee and my one assistant when I had

16:59

my design firm and grown with me. So

17:01

yeah, I have a really great team. I still

17:03

oversee it as a creative head, but not

17:06

like the day to day installs and stuff.

17:08

Well, let's say somebody didn't have the

17:12

dough for a decorator

17:15

but felt that they wanted to in

17:18

some way transform their

17:20

home, and they're, you know, working with a budget, and

17:22

you know the whole thing. I mean,

17:25

I think a lot of people would say, well, I just really

17:27

don't know where to start. I don't like,

17:30

you know, do I move the couch or you know, whatever

17:32

it is. How would you what would you recommend

17:34

to somebody that wanted to explore

17:37

that.

17:38

I mean, I would always start with getting

17:40

rid of things and organizing,

17:43

you know, I think pers yeah,

17:45

perbs. You know, often the issue

17:48

with your room is that there's this too.

17:50

Much stuff, you know.

17:51

And I mean I can't speak

17:53

for everyone, because I'm sure there are those

17:55

people out there that might thrive in

17:59

chaos, you know, I just

18:01

don't meet those people very often. I might meet

18:03

those people who think

18:05

they do and then when the chaos

18:08

is fixed, they realize, oh

18:10

no, I was just making excuses to

18:13

allow myself to live in this, but now I realize

18:15

this is better. So I would first recommend

18:17

purging, you know, getting rid of the stuff that

18:19

you're just not making you happy. That's, you know, as

18:21

Ariconder would say, is not sparking joy

18:24

because you might realize that you don't need

18:26

to go out and spend money. You fix

18:28

the space by getting rid of the stuff you had

18:31

that wasn't working. So first do

18:33

some purging, you know, do some organization, but

18:36

start out small. You know, oftentimes people

18:38

will try to bite off more they can chew. You know, they'll

18:40

be like, Okay, my garage is a disaster.

18:42

There's stuff everywhere, there's stuff stacked to the ceiling.

18:45

I'm going to try to organize my garage today.

18:48

Well that's a little too much. And then you

18:50

get you don't do it. You stop, you know,

18:52

thirty minutes into it, and you

18:55

didn't get discouraged, and you don't.

18:56

Try anything else.

18:57

But if you start with your joke drawer, everybody's

18:59

got to try it. He's got that drawer that has

19:01

all a crap in it, that just comes from everywhere.

19:04

Start with that.

19:05

If you get accomplished that, then you're like, you get those

19:07

little endorphins of accomplishment. You're like you

19:09

can tackle, Like I can tackle the closet in my room

19:12

now, and then do that, and then work your

19:14

way up to that garage, you know, work

19:16

your way up once you have the confidence and say, you know

19:18

what, I can handle this.

19:19

I can throw stuff out. I'm

19:21

not I'm not.

19:22

Married to these things that are holding

19:25

me captive. I can get rid of this stuff

19:27

and I can live much more.

19:28

Cleaner and organized.

19:31

Yeah, that's very, very good advice. I

19:35

can totally see that. I

19:37

always tell people that, especially

19:40

not people, but you know, my kids basically

19:42

if they're moving because they've moved a couple of times,

19:44

I say, purge before you move, because

19:47

I'll never forget. We had a

19:50

construction thing happening,

19:52

and so there was a dumpster, you know, in

19:54

the in the in the driveway. So I was like,

19:56

oh, a dumpster. This is the greatest thing. I spent

19:59

probably four days, you know,

20:01

bleeding, cursing, sweating, just

20:04

dragging stuff out of the basement to

20:06

put into the dumpster. And

20:09

the stuff that I found that

20:11

we had obviously moved

20:13

from one house to another, probably

20:17

in the eighties. I mean some of this stuff

20:20

belonged to like

20:22

like nanny and nanny that had worked

20:24

for us. It was it was like a couple of pots

20:26

and pans, you know, I mean stuff. I was like to

20:29

how did this stay? Like what?

20:31

What? How did we decide that we

20:33

were going to move and bring uh

20:35

some some some pots

20:37

and pans and a couple of pieces of tupperware

20:40

from that belonged to somebody that

20:42

hasn't worked for us for forty years or

20:44

something, you know. I mean, it was just it was just crazy.

20:47

So I'm all, I'm all about, you know,

20:49

purge and move. And I think that's a really

20:51

really good, really good piece of advice.

20:53

Yeah, you know, we moved from when we moved from New

20:55

York.

20:56

To to la I got

20:58

rid of and ethy

21:01

the only thing we kept was closed. I was

21:03

like, I'm just going to purge and then I completely start

21:05

over.

21:05

I took everything we.

21:06

Had in the house, I donated it and like

21:09

we're gonna we're gonna start fresh.

21:10

That's great, that's great. So

21:13

you'd mentioned that on the on

21:15

the site, it's overall like wellness,

21:18

like what other what other things are you uh

21:22

do you do? I mean you're you're like into food

21:24

and exercise and what meditation

21:26

or any of those kinds of things.

21:28

Yeah, you know, we have a lot of articles on exercising

21:31

and health and recipes for

21:33

for food and you know, we do a lot of recipes

21:35

around.

21:36

The holidays to help you out with that.

21:38

So yeah, the theme is kind of like, you

21:40

know, it's your life, design it well and

21:42

that's you know, not just your interiors.

21:44

It's it's everything that has to do with your life.

21:47

Uh huh. That's great. And what's

21:49

the book do you have? You have a book that you wrote.

21:51

Yeah, yeah, so I have a book called

21:53

Right at Home. It's called How Good Design Is

21:55

Good for the Mind, and it's all about

21:58

figuring out.

21:59

How to design your space.

22:00

So it's all about empowering you to design your

22:02

space because a lot of interior design books

22:04

are an interior designer's perspective on what

22:06

is beautiful, what looks good, this is the things

22:08

you should choose for your home. My book

22:11

is all about helping you figure out what makes

22:13

you happy, because I feel the things

22:15

that you should put in your home are things that make you happy

22:17

because your home is like your foe charger. It

22:19

needs to be the thing that recharges you every night.

22:22

And if you're just filling your house full of things that some

22:24

designer told you were pretty, because that's what's on trend,

22:27

really things that.

22:28

Are you're passionate about.

22:30

Right, So it talks about, you know, figuring

22:32

out the things that make you happy.

22:33

Is going through your.

22:34

Closet, figuring out like, Okay, what are the

22:36

colors I see in my closet, what are the textures I see

22:38

in my closet?

22:39

These are the things I'm loving in fashion.

22:40

These are probably going to be some things I should infuse in my

22:42

decor. You know, what's your favorite food,

22:45

what's your dream vacation, what's

22:47

your favorite television show? Like, think

22:49

this checklist of things that make you happy?

22:52

Those are the things you should start thinking about of how

22:54

you should design your home because again, those

22:56

are the things that are going to make you happy to look at

22:58

every day.

22:59

Sure that makes a lot of sense. I

23:02

have to ask you because now correct

23:04

me if I'm wrong. I didn't see it. But were you on the

23:06

mask singer?

23:07

Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah I was. I was on the back.

23:09

I have to know what that experience is

23:12

like, I mean, it just it's such a wild

23:14

idea.

23:15

It's insane.

23:16

So I made the assumption incorrectly

23:20

that there is no way in hell

23:23

somebody is actually singing in those costumes.

23:25

Like I assumed I would have to sing, but I thought I would

23:27

pre record it because I'm like, those costumes

23:30

are heavy, they're massive, you

23:32

know.

23:33

But I was wrong.

23:34

So I had to sing inside this costume.

23:36

And I remember my very first episode, I almost passed

23:39

out from heat exhaustion because I run really

23:41

hot and inside of there was

23:44

so hot.

23:44

In that claustrophobook. I think I would get very

23:46

close to Yes, I played an

23:48

astronaut one time and I had to put the The

23:50

first time, I had to put the spacesuit on it

23:53

and then and then clamp the helmet

23:55

down and stop. I was like, whoa this is I don't know if

23:57

I could do this.

23:58

Yeah, that's literally what that was like a big

24:00

astronaut helmet that that caterpillar

24:02

costume and I had. It was the tallest,

24:04

largest and heaviest costume they had ever done.

24:07

So by episode two, I had to make

24:09

me a vest that I could pack

24:11

with ice, and so I

24:13

wore an ice packed vest to.

24:16

So there's a good a good mic.

24:18

Yeah, there's as a.

24:19

Good headset and a good headset to hear.

24:22

Okay, so you can hear, you can hear yourself and then

24:24

there's like track you're singing to track is

24:26

yeah, oh my god.

24:28

It was quite the experience.

24:29

It was. Were you a singer?

24:30

I mean, were you I've always

24:32

I've always been a singer.

24:34

That was actually my dream was to be a singer. It just

24:36

wasn't in my cards.

24:39

I keep thinking about pursuing a little more.

24:41

Like I've done a few songs. I did a song

24:43

last year with a big Brazilian artist, Rebecca, So

24:45

I have some music out on Spotify. I

24:49

just don't know if I'm in the point of my life where I

24:51

want to start another new

24:53

career. Yeah, come on, man, like

24:57

you you're going your go, You're touring like

24:59

your joy. The thought of touring

25:02

is just not not something that

25:05

I'm I would.

25:06

Yeah, I don't, I don't want it.

25:08

Is it the going from place to place or

25:10

or yeah? Yeah, it's just.

25:12

The last six years, you know, when we have with

25:14

filmed Queer, we've had to move to wherever

25:17

we are and it's six month filming

25:19

so for the last six.

25:20

Years, I haven't really been home.

25:22

So the thought of like going out on the road

25:25

and going on tour and not being home

25:28

just right now is not in my cards. Maybe in

25:30

a few years I'll be like, hey, I'm ready

25:32

to do it. You know, I've thought about

25:35

I'm kind of in the beginning places phases

25:37

of maybe recording a Christmas album for

25:39

next year.

25:40

Hmm, So yeah, I might dabble

25:42

in it and see how I like it.

25:44

Oh, that's cool.

25:45

Yeah, singing's always been a huge pagine.

25:53

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26:25

You're here today and the

26:28

organization is Stand Up for Cancer, and I want

26:30

to bring in Julian Adams,

26:33

who is the CEO

26:36

for Stand Up to Cancer. Julian,

26:38

Welcome to the podcast.

26:41

Thank you, Thank you Kevin for

26:43

having Bobby and me on the

26:45

show.

26:46

Do you guys know each other? Now?

26:49

This is the first time we've met.

26:50

Yeah, I've worked with their organization for years,

26:52

but yeah, this is the first time I've got to meet

26:54

Julian.

26:55

And Julian, I think you're new to the gig, right I.

26:58

Am two weeks?

27:00

Yeah, okay, so that is why

27:02

we haven't met that.

27:04

But I joined last summer as

27:06

the chief science Officer, and

27:09

I'm here to talk about why cancer research

27:12

is so important.

27:13

Yeah, I really want to hear about that. Well,

27:15

first off, let me just ask you, Bobby, how

27:17

did you get involved with Stand Up to Cancer?

27:20

So, my father, who just passed

27:23

from cancer in August, has

27:26

battled four different types

27:28

of cancer over the last ten years. So

27:31

when I became

27:33

a person who had a platform

27:36

over the last few years with Queer Eye, I knew

27:38

I wanted to work with an organization that was

27:41

very close to the situation that my family

27:43

was going through, and so I asked

27:45

my team to go out there and find

27:47

me an organization that I could help. And

27:50

that's when I got introduced to Stand Up to Cancer.

27:53

Well, great, great, And how about you Julian,

27:55

how did you end up working for Stand Up to

27:57

Cancer?

27:58

It's a long story. I

28:02

am minded myself to science, even

28:04

as an undergraduate uh in

28:06

college. I did my

28:08

PhD at mi T in

28:11

chemistry, and I knew

28:14

at the very beginning, from the very beginning, I was interested

28:16

in medicine, but didn't go to medical

28:19

school. I just devoted myself to doing

28:22

biomedical research.

28:24

Wow, that's fat I just want to understand this.

28:26

So when you were you were undergraduate, you

28:28

didn't want to be a doctor, but you did want to

28:31

do medical research exactly.

28:33

That's that's really fascinating. I mean, that seems like a

28:35

pretty unusual path.

28:37

It was. I considered going to medical

28:39

school, but as I whimsically

28:41

say, I didn't want it to interfere with

28:43

my education.

28:45

Having having having went through medical

28:48

school myself and I say I went through medical

28:50

school because I went through medical school, because

28:53

my husband went to medical school

28:55

and residency, I can understand it. It has a tendency

28:57

to interfere with other things.

29:01

I wanted to work on big problems and

29:04

really solve h you

29:07

know, fundamental issues that are you

29:09

know, taking our lives. And obviously I

29:11

went into industry I went into the pharmaceutical

29:14

and biotech industry uh for

29:16

over forty years. My

29:18

first drug was for HIV. I

29:21

witnessed HIV when I was a grad

29:24

student emerging in the early eighties,

29:27

and then found myself working in

29:29

HIV research and developed the first one of the first

29:31

drugs for the for

29:33

the treatment of HIV AIDS. And

29:36

then I migrated to cancer because

29:38

I was following some some basic

29:40

research and

29:44

was working on some

29:46

some laboratory work that eventually

29:49

drew me into cancer and I spent,

29:52

you know, over thirty five years of my life involved

29:55

in cancer research, developing drugs, discovering,

29:58

developing, and you

30:01

know, doing the whole gamut.

30:03

I joined Stand Up to Cancer about fifteen years

30:05

ago on the scientific Advisory Committee,

30:09

which was chaired by Nobel Laureate Phil

30:11

Sharp, and so you can imagine

30:13

the interviews I had to get to get

30:15

to this place, and

30:19

I got a

30:21

drug approved for bone

30:23

marrow transplantation. Last year, decided

30:26

to retire, but being on Stand

30:29

Up to Cancer's Advisory Committee, I

30:31

went to Sherry Lancy, our

30:34

chair of the organization,

30:36

and said, look, I have more time on my hands. I'm retired.

30:39

She says, well, come to be our Chief sides officer.

30:42

Wow.

30:42

And six months later I'm

30:44

the CEO and so I'm running the show.

30:47

Wow, that's amazing. Well, I want

30:49

to get into where I want to get into

30:51

where we're at and also what specifically

30:54

stand up to cancer does. My

30:57

question for you, Julian is so

31:01

I people ask me, you

31:03

know, and they often

31:05

asked this of famous

31:07

people, what led you to

31:10

what you do? And you know, it was

31:12

pretty simple. You know, I just wanted to be

31:14

famous, and I wanted people look at me, and I wanted

31:16

to make a lot of money and get girls. That

31:19

was It was very simple

31:22

kind of thing. I later kind of

31:25

learned to understand that

31:27

there was an art to it and that there was a thing

31:29

and it became something that I was passionate for. But the driving

31:32

instinct or motivation

31:34

wasn't that. But I'm curious with you because

31:38

obviously it wasn't to become famous or

31:40

or make money or get Girls's

31:45

the what's the thing do you think that makes

31:47

you be interested in, you

31:50

know, research in medicine,

31:53

in making sick people well, like,

31:55

is there something that's outside of

31:57

the nuts and bolts of it personally

32:00

that is was drove

32:02

you.

32:02

Initially again, as a kid,

32:05

I read the story of Thomas Edison in the third

32:07

grade, literally and

32:10

it just fascinated me. I just wanted to invent

32:12

stuff. I didn't know what I

32:14

wanted to invent. I didn't know, you know, I wasn't going to

32:16

be you know, a movie projector

32:18

it wasn't going to be whatever Thomas Edison

32:21

did. And I just got

32:23

fascinated with health

32:26

and science and biomedical

32:29

applications to improving people's

32:31

lives. I mean, what is it What do

32:33

we have if we don't have our health? You

32:35

know, there's no amount of money or you

32:38

know, toys or things you can

32:40

have if you don't have

32:42

your health. And cancer is

32:44

the second biggest killer. One point

32:46

nine million people succumb

32:48

to this disease in twenty twenty

32:50

three. And cancer is not one disease,

32:52

as you know, it's hundreds of diseases. So

32:55

it just become a complete passion of mine.

32:59

As I got more in to it, It's just you kept

33:01

drawing in, drawn in and drawn in, and

33:04

you know, it defines me. Now I'm a cancer

33:06

researcher.

33:08

It's pretty hard to find somebody that hasn't

33:11

been touched by cancer. In some

33:13

kind of way.

33:15

You're exactly right.

33:16

Yeah, I mean it's it's uh,

33:19

if nothing else by all

33:22

of a sudden, you know, having a little

33:24

scare or whatever. But

33:27

what is it? What what is the Is

33:29

there anything news wise as

33:31

a as an expert on this that you can

33:34

share with us in terms of research or or

33:36

or you know, any any good

33:38

news on the horizon. We're always looking for good news.

33:41

Yeah, there's tons of good news coming. Let

33:43

me start with a little history lasting okay

33:46

in belged me sure, last century,

33:49

twentieth century, it's chema. It's

33:51

taken toxic chemotherapy, cocktails

33:54

of chemotherapy, and you try

33:56

to kill the cancer before the

33:58

chemo kills you. And

34:01

the twenty first century has been an explosion

34:03

of research. We

34:06

solve the human geno at

34:08

the turn of the century, and all of a sudden,

34:10

all these technologies, all these abilities

34:13

to understand how DNA works,

34:16

how cancer emerges, how does

34:18

it develop in the first place, we have

34:20

all of these remarkable discoveries.

34:23

Hundreds several hundred new medicines

34:25

have been approved

34:29

just in the last twenty twenty four years, you

34:32

know, And I've been part of that. I've been part of that

34:34

the whole time, and I just you

34:36

know, it just keeps drawing

34:39

me even further in and I'm even more committed.

34:41

So as I said, I tried to retire, but I

34:43

could just became impossible.

34:46

And then Stand It to Cancer is sort of like the perfect

34:50

landing spot for me, because

34:54

a we treat all cancers. Cancer

34:56

doesn't really know any

34:58

borders. Cancer does know what

35:00

age you are, it doesn't discriminate,

35:03

and the community of

35:06

science is just an international community

35:08

and just trying to solve this nefarious disease

35:11

that catches people too early off

35:13

guard and really doesn't just disrupt

35:15

one life, it disrupts the entire family.

35:18

And listen to Boppy story, just breaks my heart

35:21

to lose your dad, to lose a loved

35:23

one. It's just what's worse.

35:26

Stand Up to Cancer is primarily

35:30

focused on research, Is that correct?

35:32

Yes, We have raised money in

35:36

the neighborhood of about eight hundred million dollars

35:38

since our fifteen year existence

35:41

to fund the best science across

35:44

the globe. We seek out some of

35:46

the more difficult problems, and

35:48

no cancer is spared. We

35:51

look at the rarest cancers all the

35:53

way to the most common cancer like lung cans. So

35:55

we do everything that we can so

35:57

long to advance knowledge to advanced research

36:00

into advanced medicines for patients.

36:03

I want to ask you something, Julian,

36:05

this is actually uh kind

36:07

of brings up an interesting question and

36:11

and and actually, Bobby,

36:13

I'd like you to kind of weigh in on this too. You're

36:17

talking a lot about, uh,

36:20

these incredible medicines

36:22

and this incredible research that that

36:24

we've done in terms of

36:26

finding out about uh, you know,

36:28

you mentioned the human genome and et cetera. How

36:33

do how much does the research

36:36

point to lifestyle in

36:39

terms of trying to remain

36:41

cancer free? And I mean, I know I think

36:44

about this because Bobby's experience with his father.

36:49

I think, I don't know, if I don't want to put

36:51

words in your mouth, but might have had an influence

36:53

on how you've thought so much about exercise

36:56

and diet and and uh

36:58

mental clarity or whatever.

37:00

That is what I mean. Maybe you guys could

37:02

talk about that a little bit.

37:04

I think from my dad it had a

37:06

lot to do with lifestyle. You

37:08

know, my dad drove a truck for

37:11

you know, forty fifty years he

37:14

inhaled you know, toxic fuel

37:17

fumes he smoked for

37:19

fifty years. He

37:22

was also a rancher who dealt with chemicals

37:24

like round up, So I think a lot

37:26

of it was environmental and his lifestyle.

37:29

That being said, I.

37:30

Lost a friend a year and a half ago, super

37:34

healthy, worked out every single

37:36

day, did not put anything

37:38

that wasn't organic into his body. At

37:41

thirty three, he was diagnosed with liver

37:43

cancer and was dead in six weeks.

37:46

So, Julian, obviously you're the scientist,

37:49

but those have been my two drastic different

37:51

experiences. For one, that I was like everything

37:54

that my father did with his life, decisions that

37:56

he made, pointed to sadly

37:59

the outcome where I had friends

38:01

who were very active in

38:03

making sure that they took care of themselves

38:05

and did everything they could for that to not happen,

38:08

and then this still happened.

38:10

So what we know about today's environment

38:13

plays a huge role. It's probably

38:16

the largest contributor. And environment

38:19

includes things like smoking, things

38:21

like overeating. Obesity is

38:23

a huge cofactor, but

38:26

it's also genetics, it's infectious

38:29

diseases. There are numerous

38:32

you know what happens

38:34

during puberty for breast cancer

38:37

in women, all kinds of

38:39

factors that beat to cancer,

38:41

and sadly it's not that predictable. The

38:43

only three things that we know for sure

38:47

is obesity, smoking and

38:49

alcohol overuse

38:52

are really bad. And then of course the

38:54

area you breathe, that water you drink. Of course

38:57

all of that matters. And it's

38:59

just a dialbollical uh

39:01

situation. Uh and Bobby,

39:04

I you know, I just nothing

39:07

is sadder than seeing a young person develop

39:09

cancer and be dead in six weeks. I

39:11

feel free.

39:12

Yeah, that is That's that's

39:15

really rough, really rough. Uh.

39:19

Well, listen, what I'd like to do is,

39:22

uh do a little This is our call

39:24

to action section. I mean, can

39:27

you guys talk about ways

39:30

that people can help,

39:32

uh in terms

39:34

of finding out where to donate or stand

39:36

up to cancer any events. I think it's stand up to

39:38

Cancer as far as I know, usually has some pretty big

39:41

events in the course of the year. What's

39:44

what's what's going on. Let's uh, let's

39:46

let's give them the digits and the websites

39:48

and all that kind of stuff.

39:50

Yeah, we just had a telecast

39:53

this past summer. Uh. It we

39:56

raised millions of dollars of it

40:00

based on the telling patient stories

40:03

and having celebrities come in that's

40:06

that's one of the special uh

40:09

attributes of Stand Up to Cancer. We

40:11

were founded by the entertainment industry,

40:14

and so we have access to all these great celebrities

40:17

and donate

40:19

their time and do these public service

40:21

announcements, et cetera, et cetera. Uh.

40:23

So we're constantly looking for more

40:26

research dollars UH to fight

40:28

these multitude of diseases.

40:31

And it's really it's it's it's our mission. Our

40:33

mission is to fund innovative research

40:35

to detect and intercept and

40:38

and with the aspiration to cure all pants A patients.

40:41

That's that's our north

40:43

star.

40:44

That's good. That's a good one. What's and what's

40:46

the website?

40:46

Is?

40:46

It must be stand Up to Cancer dot com. I would

40:49

think dot org dot

40:51

org. Yeah, stand up to Cancer dot org.

40:53

Yeah.

40:53

We're a nonprofited mind everywhere.

40:56

It's my first time in the nonprofit world, so.

41:00

Getting used to it. Yeah. It's it's a it's

41:02

its own, it's its own thing.

41:04

And it feels good. It really feels good.

41:07

Yeah. Well, you know, congratulations

41:09

Julian on this. Uh what can I call this

41:11

a second chapter or a third chapter

41:13

or you know, or just a

41:16

new gig.

41:17

Yeah, it's a new gig, and it's it's probably

41:19

chapter five or six. Because every time

41:21

I discover a drug, you

41:23

know, I move on, I take

41:25

on another problem and uh, you know, and

41:28

I've been lucky.

41:29

Uh.

41:30

I've discovered for were unique rugs.

41:33

I have two cooking right

41:35

now in the Tight States clinical trials.

41:38

But what I'm most excited about now is

41:42

the ability that we have with all the technologies

41:45

that we have, is to do early detection

41:47

of cancer, uh and

41:49

intercept that cancer. And

41:51

for the first time, last year, we saw evidence

41:54

that for the first time, cancer

41:56

vaccines actually work. We've

41:59

seen in melanoma, we've seen

42:01

it in pancreatic cancer. And so I'm

42:03

really pivoting our organization to

42:06

do what the pharmaceutical industry will never

42:08

do, is to try to

42:11

detect that early detection,

42:13

early intervention with cancer vaccines.

42:16

I think we stand in a very unique spot

42:18

to be able to foster that kind of research.

42:21

I've recently started doing full

42:23

body MRI scans.

42:25

I've now started having won every three years.

42:28

I me at that age where you know, other people in

42:30

my family have My grandfather died of a brain

42:32

tumor around my same age, So every

42:34

three years now, I'm getting a full body

42:36

MRI scan just so I can catch

42:38

things early if I ever too get something.

42:41

But unfortunately, with the health disparities

42:44

in this country, that's not scalable.

42:46

You know. I obviously, Bobby, you

42:49

got to do what you've got to do. But

42:51

if you think about the country wide

42:54

population, you know, we need

42:57

point of care off doctor's

42:59

office. You know, pinprick blood,

43:01

draw saliva,

43:04

you know, something simple that can really

43:08

with great fidelity predict are you

43:10

susceptible? Are you at risk for

43:13

getting cancer? And if

43:15

so, how do you intervene? Again, I'm

43:18

very jazzed about cancer vaccines, but

43:20

there are other modalities that have,

43:22

you know, improvements in surgery,

43:24

improvements in every aspect of

43:26

biomedical interventions

43:30

that if we can get you into remission,

43:32

we don't want your relapse either. So that's

43:35

a place where we just want

43:37

to improve survivorship. And I've

43:39

laid out a bold vision for

43:42

our organization is we want to fund

43:44

research that I want

43:46

to say, in five years from now will

43:48

reduce cancer cancer deaths by

43:50

twenty five percent and in ten years by

43:52

fifty percent. That's you know, and that

43:54

I can die happily. Something

43:57

that's not you know, I have something

43:59

that not can Good.

44:02

For you man, Good for you, man, Bobby,

44:05

Thank you for being here today, looking

44:07

forward to well whatever is coming

44:10

down the road. And

44:13

and you know, I maybe

44:16

I'll have to go back and hear you

44:19

singing that what kind of creature

44:21

were you in that show?

44:22

I was a caterpillar.

44:24

Caterpillar, caterpillar, a very

44:26

long and large caterpillar. All

44:28

right, well we're gonna have to check out

44:30

Bobby Burke as a caterpillar. And

44:34

fellas, it's been really fun chatting

44:36

with you and really fascinating and

44:40

I really do appreciate the work that you're both

44:42

doing, so keep it up.

44:44

Thank you.

44:48

Hey guys, thanks for listening to another episode

44:50

of Six Degrees with Kevin Bacon. If

44:52

you want to learn more about Stand

44:55

Up to Cancer and all the amazing

44:57

work that they do, head to their website

44:59

Stay and Up to Cancer

45:01

dot org that Stand Up to Cancer

45:04

dot org. You can find all the links

45:06

in our show notes and if you like what

45:08

you hear, make sure you subscribe to the show.

45:11

Please tune in to the rest of our episodes.

45:13

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45:16

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45:18

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45:20

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45:21

See you next time.