0:00

I think a lot of us want a

0:03

challenge. We

0:07

want to have to learn a new thing

0:10

or tackle something new. And

0:12

in my case, it's this particular character

0:14

in this job. So I

0:16

just kind of was lucky that it was brought

0:19

my way and I grabbed it. You're

0:23

listening to Skip Intro with me,

0:25

Christa Smith. It's hard

0:27

to capture in words the impact that Annette

0:29

Bedding has had on Hollywood. After

0:32

spending the majority of her 20s on

0:34

stage, her breakthrough film role came in

0:37

1990 with The Grifters, which

0:39

earned her an Oscar nomination

0:41

and Hollywood's undivided attention. That

0:44

was followed by films like Bugsy, where she met

0:46

her husband of 31 years, Warren Beatty, American

0:50

Beauty, and The Kids Are All Right.

0:52

Now in the fourth decade of her

0:54

career, Annette is still thriving as an

0:56

actress. She's taken on eight

0:58

major roles in the past 10 years

1:01

alone, including 20th Century Women, The

1:03

Report, Hope Gap, and Captain

1:05

Marvel. The most recent

1:08

of these undertakings is Naiad,

1:10

which chronicles the real-life story

1:12

of Diana Naiad, played by

1:14

Annette, who at 64 became

1:16

the first person ever to

1:18

swim from Cuba to Florida.

1:21

Ever one to shy away from a

1:23

challenge, Annette trained for a year in

1:25

order to withstand spending three to eight

1:28

hours in the water each day on

1:30

set. Her dedication has resulted in an

1:32

Oscar nomination for Best Performance by an

1:35

Actress in a Leading Role. In

1:37

total, Annette has five

1:40

Oscar nominations, four of

1:42

which have been in the Best Actress category.

1:45

Her co-star, Jodie Foster, is also nominated

1:47

for Best Performance by an Actress in

1:49

a Supporting Role. Naiad

1:51

is a film that captures the resilience

1:53

of the human spirit, and I am

1:55

honored to learn more about the experience

1:58

from Annette herself. Plus, We

2:00

talk about her career in the current state

2:02

of the industry and her favorite ways to

2:04

spend the day. Imagine knowing

2:06

in your bones that you could do

2:09

something that only you could do, like

2:11

fate. Enough with the fate, Diana. Niaad.

2:13

I know what your name means. My

2:16

father. He was an asshole. Yes,

2:18

he was an asshole, but

2:20

he understood my destiny. This

2:23

isn't about you or your destiny.

2:25

This is about me, okay? You

2:28

just want me to tag along with you like- No,

2:31

of course I think about you. I know what you're capable of better than

2:33

you do. Listen to yourself. That is

2:35

so patronizing. Look, I know that the world wants me

2:37

to shut my mouth and sit down and wait to die, but

2:43

I didn't think you did. Stop. I

2:45

can't. I won't. I will not accept

2:47

defeat. Hello, Annette Benning. Hi. I'm

2:50

Annette Benning. I'm Annette Benning. I'm

2:52

Annette Benning. I'm Annette Benning. I'm Annette

2:54

Benning. I'm Annette Benning. Hello, Annette Benning.

2:57

Hi. One of the things I've

2:59

heard you say, it was articulated in such

3:01

a perfect way, but when an

3:03

actor gets a script for the

3:06

first time, they have one free read. Before

3:10

they start analyzing, do I want to do

3:12

this? How am I going to do this? Where's the conflict versus the story? How

3:15

am I going to- their brain starts

3:17

going. What was that experience of

3:19

your one free read when you

3:21

got NIAID? I

3:24

was really moved. I was really

3:26

knocked out and shocked by

3:29

the story. I knew a little bit

3:31

about Diane and NIAID. I hadn't really followed

3:33

the swim when she did it. I

3:35

listened to her on NPR. I had

3:37

a few associations with her, but

3:39

not a lot. I'd never

3:41

read anything like it, obviously, and I'd never

3:43

done anything like it, nor did I ever

3:46

imagine I would do anything

3:49

like it. I

3:52

was athletic in my 60s. It

3:56

never entered my imagination.

3:59

I just- She was

4:01

so complex. That's what I loved about her,

4:03

too. She just jumped off

4:05

the page as this woman that

4:07

I'd never seen in a story

4:09

before on film. I'd never

4:12

seen this character. I'd never read anything

4:14

like her. And even some of the

4:16

stuff that was there that isn't even

4:18

in the movie I'm remembering, but

4:20

the essence of her as

4:23

we ended up kind of figuring her

4:25

character out and how I played her

4:27

was there. It was there on the

4:29

page. So I

4:31

just immediately just knew I

4:33

was going to do it.

4:37

And then you started to think about

4:39

the actual physicality of doing it, I

4:41

would imagine. But before you got to

4:43

that part, what was when you

4:46

decide you're going to do it, and then

4:48

you actually get to meet Diana Nyad and

4:50

obviously Bonnie, who's her best friend and trainer

4:53

and support system, 100% support

4:55

system, obviously as it's presented in the film. What

4:57

was that first meeting like? You've read about them,

5:00

you have your ideas about them, and then you

5:02

actually meet them. It was really

5:05

intense. I remember I went

5:07

to Bonnie's house, and

5:10

Bonnie has this adorable dog who

5:12

is big. His name is Mr.

5:16

We're all dog people, all of us. The

5:18

two of them were so intense and

5:21

so intense on asking me

5:23

questions. They wanted to know

5:26

everything about me. And

5:28

they have a level of energy, the two of

5:30

them, which is extraordinary.

5:32

And now I can see they're

5:34

always like that, having

5:36

known them a while now. So it was really

5:38

fun. And they were

5:40

very open. They

5:43

even were open enough to

5:46

share something that was

5:48

difficult for them, in

5:50

terms of the story and in terms of

5:53

what it was like to have this

5:55

very, very personal part of their lives,

5:57

very public, but also very personal.

6:00

personal put on screen. I

6:03

think at that point they were feeling particularly kind

6:05

of, I think it's fair

6:07

to say vulnerable. They didn't

6:09

know me and they didn't know us.

6:11

And they knew the producer, some, they

6:14

knew the directors, some. But if

6:16

you can imagine someone deciding to

6:19

do your life story and I'm sure

6:21

it was daunting. So at that

6:23

point, Diana shared some of her reservations

6:26

with me and about it, you know,

6:28

and I just said, look, you

6:30

have to understand I'm on your side completely. 100%.

6:34

I will protect you. I will advocate for

6:37

you. And none of us want to

6:39

do anything but honor you. But yes, we do have

6:41

to create a narrative and we have to

6:43

create an arc for this woman and a character

6:45

arc. And so we're

6:48

going to have to take some liberties with

6:50

the actual, you know, events of your life

6:52

and kind of who you are in

6:55

life. She's very added directed. She's

6:57

very charismatic. She just has that

6:59

natural personality. She's got the stories. She's

7:01

got the stuff to share. She's definitely a

7:03

big personality, but she's terribly curious about everybody

7:06

that's in the room and she gets to

7:08

know everyone and she wants to know their

7:10

names and where they're from and their whole

7:12

story. But in the movie,

7:14

we did need to, like I

7:17

said, create an arc. And so the more

7:19

she got to know me, the

7:21

more time we spent together, the

7:23

more I think she trusted that and

7:25

that she could see that

7:28

the delicate matters of her life in

7:31

her childhood, she had a really

7:33

tough stepfather. She didn't even know

7:35

he was her stepfather at the time. She thought

7:38

it was her father-father. She found

7:40

out in early, early twenties from her mother that

7:42

this man who was this kind

7:45

of charismatic force in

7:47

the family and

7:49

handsome and, you know, would wake him up

7:51

in the middle of the night and insist

7:54

they go look at the moon and just

7:56

a kind of wild, imaginative, charismatic character. But

7:58

he was also. horrible. And

8:00

he was also, which happens, right?

8:03

He was also physically abusive and

8:05

sexually abusive to her. And then

8:08

once she got into swimming,

8:12

which was her great passion as

8:14

a kid, she got in

8:16

with the swim coach who

8:18

was one of the best and

8:20

very, very important in that competitive

8:22

field. And he was sexually

8:24

abusing her as well as many, many other girls.

8:26

They didn't know that at the time. So

8:29

we didn't want to overemphasize that

8:31

stuff. It's not about that.

8:33

It's about the swim that happened when

8:35

she's 60 something. She

8:38

starts when she's 60, she teed that when she's

8:40

64. So

8:42

all of that had to be gently

8:45

nuanced in, and

8:48

we needed to reassure Diana that we were

8:50

going to do it that way. I'm

8:52

so grateful to her because she did trust me. And

8:55

you know, it's one of the real pleasures as an

8:57

actor when you get to play someone like that. It's

9:00

so intimate. You know, you get to

9:02

know them so well. It's

9:04

a bond that we still have, I think. As

9:07

a human, right, you are sympathetic and empathetic

9:09

and you understand them as you're getting to

9:11

know them. But then as the artist, you

9:13

have to portray some of those

9:15

unpleasant parts of their personality. You have to show

9:18

those complexities. It's not like kind of a couple

9:20

meetings and then they go away and you see

9:22

them at the premiere. They were an integral part

9:24

of this process. How was that balance for you?

9:30

Bonnie always teases her about that and says,

9:32

yeah, Diana, they wouldn't let you come to the

9:34

set because they were afraid if you were on

9:36

set, you would yell cut. Probably true. But that's

9:39

just a

9:43

tease. That's just teasing her. I think

9:45

one of the reasons a lot of people

9:48

respond to the movie and the reason I

9:50

responded to the story is

9:52

because it's such a relief

9:54

to show women with all

9:56

of their complexities, their flaws,

9:58

the fact that they can be. We have

10:01

all these contradictions because for

10:03

so long we just saw women who

10:05

were sort of these stereotypes of younger

10:08

women, middle-aged women, older women. We

10:11

didn't see the nuance that we

10:13

saw in our lives, our mothers and

10:15

our grandmothers and their friends. There's

10:18

all these interesting characters, but somehow we

10:20

didn't see them in our stories. So

10:23

I love that we're beginning to see these

10:25

kinds of characters in the writing that have

10:29

flaws and then have strengths

10:31

and weaknesses and like I said,

10:34

contradictions. So I fell

10:36

in love with all of that and that's what

10:38

I try to tease out of every

10:40

character that I find is

10:42

because I think that I need to

10:44

see that when I see things. I

10:46

need to see people who aren't idealized.

10:48

And then enter Jodie Foster to play

10:51

Bonnie, right? Just seeing these powerhouse women

10:53

on screen together, making this story come

10:55

to life and then to realize

10:57

I think this is the first time you met

10:59

Jodie, right? And yet you had to convey this

11:02

lifelong friendship and relationship. How was that working with

11:04

Jodie and meeting her and her

11:06

process? It was very

11:08

easy, very quickly. Once I

11:10

heard that she was interested and she came over

11:12

to meet me, she was going to really kind

11:14

of see what I was really like, you know?

11:18

And she's very charming, very intelligent. She

11:20

had lots to say about what she

11:22

thought about the filmmaking process.

11:24

Water is famously difficult to shoot on.

11:26

So what were the logistics going to

11:29

be? And she had a lot

11:31

of thought. Everything on

11:33

the water takes longer. I think I've heard

11:35

Chai, one of our directors, the married couple

11:37

who directed the film, Jimmy and Chai. And

11:41

I think she said it takes three times longer.

11:43

Everything takes three times longer. So

11:46

we talked about logistics, Jodie and I did

11:48

in terms of the schedule and how much

11:50

film we had and how much script we

11:52

had. When I say how much film we

11:54

had, how much time we needed. And

11:57

what could we cut? And what could we...

12:00

strip away and what could

12:02

we add and what was needed and what was

12:04

too long. I thought her

12:07

ideas were really good and I thought, wow,

12:09

hope she does the movie. So yeah, when

12:11

she agreed, I was thrilled and we've become

12:13

friends. As I'm thinking about it in this

12:15

moment, I think part of the

12:17

reason that it worked with

12:19

us is that we're both

12:21

at a kind of good place in terms

12:23

of feeling a certain amount of freedom internally

12:26

in our lives. Our kids

12:28

are now kind of grown. That's

12:30

a big difference, you know, when your kids are out of the house.

12:34

It's a big switch and

12:36

I think we both feel a

12:38

certain amount of liberation in our lives personally

12:40

too. So, you know, we're just in it

12:42

for the work and we're in it because

12:44

we love to do it and having

12:47

each other was a great thing. I tried to

12:49

be there for her as much as I could,

12:52

emotionally, physically, in every way and

12:54

then she was certainly there for

12:56

me. And we thought to observe

12:59

the relationship between Bonnie and Diana and we

13:01

would hang out with them. The four of

13:03

us would go and do things. And then

13:05

afterwards, Jodi and I would get together and

13:08

say, oh, yeah, did you see she did that? And then

13:10

she said that. And that wasn't it, you know, so

13:12

we were all kind of falling

13:14

in love. And also, you know,

13:16

we knew that we had this relationship

13:18

to dramatize. So it was a pleasure

13:20

and we really got into it. Yeah,

13:23

it's funny. Jodi was interviewing you for for that

13:25

medallion. I love when she was like, I was

13:27

screaming, get her out of the water. That's too

13:29

much. And you would stay in the waters. I

13:31

love the way there was that

13:33

camaraderie. So let's talk about

13:36

the water. You completely transformed,

13:38

even though basically you're just

13:40

in a speedo for the majority of the movie. It's like

13:43

I felt like I was watching. And

13:46

it's like your physical transformation and

13:48

then just the actual swimming. You had

13:50

to learn to swim

13:53

in this competitive way.

13:56

There was stunt double standing by, but you did ninety

13:58

nine point nine. of all the swimming, if not 100%

14:00

of it in the water, was you? I

14:05

did do it. And as I was training, at

14:07

first I was just, I thought,

14:09

wow, I sort of underestimated what I thought it was

14:11

going to be. And then as

14:13

I got into it, I thought, well, you know,

14:15

maybe it won't be all me. Maybe

14:17

we will use other people and maybe that's

14:20

fine. So I didn't go into it kind

14:22

of knowing where we would land. Although

14:24

I got into the swimming, I hired

14:26

a coach. I had an Olympic swimmer,

14:28

Rayda Owen, who was my coach. And

14:31

I began to really enjoy it. And

14:33

I still swim. It's just the best

14:35

exercise. It's the best for

14:38

the mind, the spirit, the bod. It's

14:40

like just the best. And it helps

14:42

me sleep, by the way. For anybody

14:44

who has sleep issues, swimming

14:47

regularly really helps with sleep. So

14:49

I fell in love with the swimming. And

14:52

then I got so I could kind of

14:54

pull it off so that when I got

14:57

there and they were so

14:59

relieved, you know, they saw me swim and they're

15:01

like, oh my God, it looks okay. I

15:03

also kind of knew it wouldn't look right

15:06

if somebody else was swimming, but you'd probably

15:08

be able to tell. And that

15:10

always bugs me. So part of

15:12

it is I suppose ego. It's like, I

15:14

have to do it because otherwise it's not

15:17

going to look right. But then I also

15:19

just enjoyed it. I liked being in the

15:21

water. It felt good. And you know, the

15:24

scenes where she's struggling and having

15:26

jellyfish and sharks and storms

15:29

and allergic reactions and all of

15:31

that. That's another matter. But

15:33

in terms of just the swimming itself, I kind of

15:35

fell in love with it. It

15:38

relaxes me every day. And once

15:40

you get into swimming, you sort of have to do it

15:42

regularly so that you feel good. So

15:45

yeah, it evolved into me doing it.

15:48

And that just felt very organic

15:50

and I enjoyed it. And I

15:52

was tired. I was definitely tired. And

15:55

I remember on Saturdays, we had Saturdays and

15:57

Sundays off and I would just be like

16:00

a noodle on the couch just like limp,

16:03

but then I'd get myself revved up again

16:05

and go back into it. So it

16:07

was a welcome challenge, you know, no

16:09

complaints. Yeah, no, and it's so

16:12

inspirational just to know that you did that and

16:14

you jumped in and and I agree with you

16:16

when you see a movie and someone's been playing

16:18

a couple chords of the piano and then you

16:20

realize you're not really playing that or whatever it

16:22

is, it's so great to see that you actually

16:24

did it and I think I

16:26

love that you already mentioned Jimmy

16:28

and Chai because they are married

16:30

couple. They're very unique. This is

16:32

their first feature film. They're known

16:35

for their docs basically covering extreme

16:37

sports. They did free solo, won

16:39

an Oscar about free climbing

16:42

for my listeners. That is like you're going

16:44

right up a sheer face of a mountain

16:46

with no ropes, no security. So

16:48

they understand this mindset, which is so

16:50

important, that athletic mindset of what would

16:52

drive someone, let alone at 28, at

16:55

60, there's nothing which is so interesting

17:00

to me, nothing stands in the way

17:02

between them and accomplishing their goal. And

17:04

I thought it was so interesting to see

17:07

how we saw her

17:09

journey through that where she was so

17:11

single-minded at certain points that she's willing

17:13

to risk other people's lives. She's not

17:15

even thinking about it because she's so focused

17:17

on the goal. These filmmakers were, it

17:19

was the right match of confidence.

17:23

Yes. And Jimmy is an

17:25

Alzheimer's, and a very competitive

17:28

extreme athlete himself. And

17:31

in the book that she wrote, which is a good

17:33

book by the way, and I do recommend it, she

17:36

talks about that athletic instinct and

17:38

that so many people who

17:41

are athletes and professional athletes, they have

17:43

to stop, right? That's

17:45

what happens. It's the thing that they

17:47

all have to face is

17:50

retirement. And so

17:52

for her, she sort of never got

17:54

over that. Even though she

17:56

went into broadcasting, she retired from marathon

17:59

swimming. She... She tried to do the Cuba

18:01

floor to swim when she was in her late 20s. She

18:03

failed. She went into broadcasting

18:05

and did a bunch of other things for 30

18:07

years and then kind of woke up at 60

18:09

and said, you know what, I'm not really done.

18:13

And so I think there are a lot of people

18:15

who can relate to that. It doesn't have to be

18:17

swimming. I think a

18:19

lot of us want a challenge. We

18:22

want a new thing. We want to have

18:24

to learn a new thing or

18:26

tackle something new. I

18:29

see that with my women friends, a lot

18:31

of women that I know, they take on

18:33

something new at that stage of life. And

18:36

in my case, it's this particular character

18:38

in this job. But a

18:40

lot of people are doing that in

18:43

different fields. And I see that there's

18:45

this kind of surge of energy that

18:47

I think a lot of us want a new change. And

18:50

so I just kind of was lucky that it was brought

18:52

my way and I grabbed it. But

18:55

I think a lot of people want that kind of thing. How

18:57

was it to work with the husband and

18:59

wife team? It was

19:01

good. I mean, they're both

19:03

very intense, very smart,

19:06

very driven. They

19:08

really want to get things right. And

19:10

they take nothing for granted. They're

19:12

hardworking. They're lovable too.

19:14

But they don't mess around. And

19:17

I think sometimes they felt that they had

19:19

to agree on stuff. And

19:22

I would always say to them, hey, it's OK

19:24

if you don't agree. Because that's

19:27

where creativity comes in. You

19:29

want a certain amount of

19:31

creative chaos on a set. Not too

19:33

much, not too little, just right. Because

19:36

you have to be organized. And you have

19:39

to get shit done. And you've got to

19:41

stay on schedule. But then if something comes

19:43

up and there's an idea, something to change,

19:46

or if there's something we haven't figured out,

19:49

we have to be able to say, well, I

19:51

think this and you think that. And what's the

19:53

best idea? So sometimes I

19:55

think they did feel they had to always feel

19:57

the same way about something. And I would say.

19:59

you know, it's okay, I don't have a problem with that. If

20:02

you're thinking one thing and you're thinking another. But

20:05

they both had suggestions, they would come and talk

20:07

to us about what was going on beat by

20:09

beat in the scene. And, you

20:11

know, I remember both of them having good

20:14

suggestions and ways of

20:16

talking. Of course, they were also, they've

20:19

talked to me about how, having

20:21

made so many documentaries, you

20:23

know, they can't manipulate the figures

20:25

in the documentaries, right? They have to

20:27

just receive the information as it's coming.

20:30

And even though they would sort of say to

20:32

themselves, oh man, it would be great if that

20:34

person like, had an emotional moment at a certain

20:36

point, right? Because then I could put it in

20:39

the doc and it would play. But of course

20:41

you can't do that as a documentary filmmaker, but

20:43

with us, they could. And I

20:45

think they kind of relish the idea of

20:47

being able to manipulate a story and say,

20:49

okay, this is where it should peak. And

20:52

this is where you should have this reaction.

20:54

And I think they kind of relished being

20:56

able to actually get in there and tell

20:58

people what to do. Although

21:01

they were very, they always talk about how they

21:03

were very reluctant to do that, they

21:05

were intimidated by us, yada, yada. But that didn't

21:07

last too long. I think they got over it

21:09

pretty quickly. But they did have to get on

21:11

bull horns, you know, when we were

21:14

out in the water. And I think that was

21:16

a little bit intimidating sometimes. Trying to

21:18

give a note on a bull horn is not

21:20

fun. Well,

21:22

some of the most tense stuff, obviously you

21:24

mentioned it a little bit she's getting stung

21:27

by jellyfish, there's sharks. As an audience, I

21:29

knew you're in the moment with them, right?

21:31

And it's so dramatic. And then

21:33

I removed myself, I think, oh, you're still

21:35

swimming and acting with the jellyfish mask and

21:38

those masks were crazy. How

21:42

was that to act and be athletic and

21:44

do all the things you had to do,

21:46

be in the flow, as we say, right?

21:48

Just be in all of it seamlessly with

21:50

all of those different things happening. It

21:53

just made me more and more

21:55

just amazed at Diana. So

21:58

she gets stung by the... box jellyfish

22:00

in the Gulf Stream, which is of

22:02

course where she's swimming. And at

22:05

that point, the box jellyfish, which is, I

22:07

think it's safe to say, the most deadly jellyfish

22:09

on the planet. And it

22:11

was only known to be in the southern

22:13

hemisphere because it only liked warmer water. But

22:16

by this time, with global warming, it

22:18

had found its way into the Gulf.

22:20

The head of the box is very

22:22

small. And then it has

22:24

these long, long, long, long, long tendrils. It's

22:28

deadly. So she stung, she almost

22:30

dies. And so she and Bonnie

22:32

go and find this expert. And

22:35

she builds this mask, which

22:37

goes completely over her head. By the

22:39

way, the thing that I didn't really

22:41

understand until I was doing it was

22:44

there are dentures inside of the mask

22:46

that were built in that she had to bite down

22:48

on. So not only did she wear

22:51

this suit that she had to put

22:53

on by herself during the

22:55

night swims, and of course, there's two nights

22:57

of swimming in this marathon

22:59

swim. There's a denture inside that she had

23:01

to bite down on. So when

23:04

she was swimming at night, she was

23:06

exhaling and inhaling out

23:08

of the water. Then she would

23:11

clamp down and put her face in the water

23:13

because she couldn't even exhale into the water

23:15

because it would be too dangerous with the

23:18

possibility of the box. I

23:20

mean, that's crazy. She

23:22

did that for two solid

23:25

nights. I mean,

23:27

this is the level, like

23:29

she just nothing was going to stop

23:31

her. So she did it. Crazy.

23:34

And then you did it, you know, you emulate it. Well,

23:37

I faked it. You faked it

23:39

really, really well. How

23:41

many swimsuits did you have when you arrived on set?

23:43

Like how many did you go through in the course

23:45

of this film? Oh, that's

23:47

a good question. A lot. Yeah,

23:49

I don't know, maybe 20. I'm not

23:51

sure because we had different colors and for

23:54

different time periods. And was I in St.

23:57

Martin or was I in the Bahamas or was

23:59

I actually doing? doing the swim. So

24:01

yeah, we had a whole bunch of them, that's for sure.

24:05

All right. I want to take you back

24:07

and look at your body of work, right?

24:09

You've got many, many awards, many nominations for

24:11

the work that you've done. And you've done

24:14

a lot of genres, a lot

24:16

of different characters, a lot of complex women.

24:18

Are there any that are more special to

24:20

you than others or one that you remember

24:22

more vividly because of what was happening in

24:24

your life at the time or catapulted you

24:26

into something else that you

24:29

didn't expect? When

24:31

I think back, some of the movies that

24:33

don't get as much attention that people don't

24:35

bring up as much, those

24:37

can be just as meaningful as

24:40

a person in your craft. I've

24:43

made a movie called Mother and Child

24:45

with Rodrigo Garcia that I

24:47

just love. And it had

24:49

such a big impact on me. And

24:51

I thought so much about it. He's

24:53

such a special filmmaker and writer. That's

24:56

one that I think about. Film Stars

24:58

Don't Die in Liverpool was one I

25:01

really loved making about Gloria

25:03

Graham. It was a story

25:05

that I had thought

25:07

about for a long time as had one

25:10

of our producers, Barbara Broccoli, because

25:12

she actually knew Peter Turner who

25:15

wrote the book about his relationship

25:17

with Gloria. He's a wonderful man.

25:19

And we had talked

25:21

about doing that forever. Those projects.

25:24

I love that movie, I will say. Oh, thank

25:26

you. People need to find that film. I

25:28

remember seeing that movie very well

25:30

and knowing a little bit about

25:32

Gloria Graham just from being a cinephile

25:34

in a film buff, but not

25:36

knowing her life and seeing

25:39

that later part of her life and

25:41

what that means for an artist. Thank you

25:43

very much. It was a

25:45

joy to do that. I mean, certainly when I first

25:47

started, I think a lot about those movies because I

25:49

was learning so much at the time. I did

25:52

a movie with Milos Foreman.

25:54

That was, you know, it was

25:56

just a dream job. I just

25:58

will always remember the moment. I got the

26:01

phone call and they told me I got

26:03

this movie. It was this period film shoot

26:05

for six months in Europe It was like

26:07

with this great director and the movie

26:10

had done before that was Amadeus It

26:12

changed my life that experience Valmont right

26:14

you're talking about Valmont right? Yes,

26:16

Valmont. Yeah. Yeah Then

26:18

after that I did the grifters. Oh the

26:20

grifters the grifters was like something we've never seen

26:23

before I mean that film really I feel

26:25

like hit the zeitgeist in a way, you

26:28

know, pre-socially At that time I don't think

26:30

there were a lot of people doing that

26:32

kind, you know, Stephen Frears directed it He

26:34

was interested in film noir. So he was

26:36

trying to kind of do it a modern

26:38

film noir Donald Westlake

26:40

wrote the screenplay from the

26:43

Jim Thompson book Jim

26:45

Thompson is a writer a lot of people

26:47

have made movies of his books

26:49

He wrote these paperbacks that were super popular,

26:52

but they happen to be just very smart

26:54

and very literate They're full

26:56

of crime and subversion and it's often,

26:58

you know There are murders going on

27:00

in a small town and who's doing

27:02

them the sheriff. There's always something twisted

27:04

going on in a great way He

27:06

was such a good writer. So

27:09

it was based on one of his books. Yeah

27:11

Yeah, and then obviously you met your husband on

27:13

Bugsy and you went on to have your children,

27:15

which is incredible while having a full career

27:17

And you're still married. I should just say

27:19

that it does happen in Hollywood people I

27:22

know you like to say it

27:24

doesn't but it does happen in your living proof of

27:26

that your youngest I believe

27:28

your daughter is interested in acting.

27:30

Yeah, my youngest daughter Ella. She

27:32

went to Juilliard. She graduated A

27:35

year and a half ago and

27:37

she's currently out there auditioning and

27:39

yep She's very serious about it

27:41

I mean you've had a bird's-eye view obviously

27:44

within your own career and then living in

27:46

Hollywood I would be just so

27:48

curious on some of your thoughts about what

27:50

it's been like to a watch Hollywood Evolve

27:53

and then have your own daughter entering

27:55

into this new world order. I Want

27:58

my kids to follow what they love So

28:00

the fact that she found something she feels

28:02

so strongly about that she followed

28:05

her instinct that she got herself trained

28:07

And she really takes it very seriously.

28:09

She's very disciplined. I

28:11

have a lot of respect for her One

28:14

thing I don't know what it's like is

28:16

to be an upcoming Actor

28:18

actress with social media and

28:21

the pressures that are on People

28:24

who are starting out and what

28:26

that means and Instagram and how many followers

28:28

you have and all of that part of

28:30

it I'm pretty ignorant about I

28:33

feel for people starting out. I think it's top.

28:36

Everyone has a camera Everyone

28:38

makes films everyone shoots everything

28:40

all the time also self-taping

28:43

I think it's really tricky for people

28:45

who don't know what that means right

28:47

now in the business if you're up

28:49

for something if somebody is Interested in

28:51

auditioning you you end up making your

28:54

own self-tape on your own phone or

28:56

on your own iPad or however You

28:58

do it where you have to actually

29:00

act out the scene on camera yourself

29:03

You have to put that together and then you

29:05

have to send it to your agent and then

29:07

the agent sends it in It used

29:09

to be we would go in and read for

29:11

people or if someone was interested

29:13

in you and you were getting a call back

29:15

You might go in and read or you would

29:17

go into the casting directors office and they would

29:19

put you on tape It's what they used to

29:22

do And then they of course

29:24

used to actually take the physical tape and

29:26

fly it and have people watch

29:28

it Now of course with

29:30

the digital age, it's all changed. So

29:33

I think I don't know I think the craft It

29:36

matters to me and I think it matters to a lot

29:38

of people and I don't think you have to

29:40

have had a lot of Fancy training to be

29:42

an actor. There are a number of people I

29:45

know who are excellent who just started doing it

29:47

Maybe ask kids and then

29:49

they kind of found their way into the profession But

29:52

I think it's a tough profession right now And

29:54

there's a lot of pressure on young people about how

29:56

they look and I don't know what

29:58

that would be like I don't have

30:00

to worry about that. Yeah,

30:02

there was always that element to the business,

30:04

right? Like what you look like, how you

30:07

look on camera. But now

30:09

I agree, the level is just there's 15

30:12

different layers to it now, you know?

30:14

Yeah, there's so much pressure and people

30:16

being photographed in the red carpet, that's

30:18

become a whole thing. And I mean,

30:21

there's always been a certain amount of

30:23

glamour. That's not new,

30:25

associated with the business. But now, appearing

30:28

on the red carpet and people, the pressure

30:30

that especially women have, I think men feel

30:32

it too, but let's face it, it's harder

30:34

for women, you know? Your body

30:36

is supposed to look a certain way and there's

30:39

a lot of pressure on young people as they

30:41

start now. And I think that's tough.

30:44

Yeah, what dress, how you wore it, whether

30:46

that's like always ranking and all of it. Yeah,

30:49

it is interesting. I'm really curious

30:51

to see how everything plays

30:53

out, you know? I have one last question

30:56

for you. Aside from the pool, which now

30:58

I know I love hearing that you are

31:00

continuing to swim, because when I asked Jodi

31:02

about, you know, I know she worked out,

31:04

was so bopped, I said, how quickly did

31:06

you lose it? She's like, oh, real quick.

31:09

Like she stopped doing her kind

31:11

of intense training to resemble Bonnie.

31:14

But other than swimming once a day, where would

31:16

we find you on your day off? Like what

31:18

is your favorite thing to do when you're not

31:20

working or reading or prepping or rehearsing? Yeah,

31:23

you'd find me with a book. You

31:27

find me with my dog. I have

31:29

a fabulous, gigantic

31:31

Newfoundland. Although

31:33

she's kind of old, so she's

31:36

crazy about getting in the car anymore. And

31:39

although once in a while she'll still go

31:41

on hikes with me, I live

31:43

in LA most of the time. You find

31:45

me with my girlfriends, like

31:47

having a chat, having a cup of

31:49

tea, or watching

31:52

something with my husband. You know, we love

31:54

to sit and watch Good Stop. We

31:57

watched a really interesting documentary

31:59

called The Discourse. appearance of

32:01

Sherry Hight. Have you seen

32:03

that? So we watched

32:05

that the other night and of course

32:07

we're watching all the Academy movies this

32:09

year. My dad just passed away. He

32:11

was 97.

32:14

Great man, loved him, loved him

32:16

dearly. And my mom is about to turn

32:18

95. So I see my family.

32:22

I've got a wonderful sister and two brothers.

32:24

I've got a bunch of nieces and nephews.

32:27

I've got four kids, like you mentioned. My

32:29

kids are from 32 to 23. You know,

32:31

they're amazing.

32:34

I adore them. Big part of

32:36

my life. So, you know,

32:39

and trying to get organized. I'm always

32:41

trying to get more organized. I have

32:43

a number of friends who are very

32:45

organized and I aspire to that. I'm

32:47

not, I'm like in the middle. I'm

32:50

not terrible, but I'm certainly, I'm

32:52

always working at that. Like getting

32:54

rid of stuff. I

32:57

don't know if you have that issue. You see me nodding.

33:00

I mean, for those of you who are nodding,

33:02

it's a constant state for me and

33:04

I'm so relieved to hear that even

33:06

you are, it's every, every day is

33:08

a journey. Exactly.

33:13

Well, it's great to see you Annette. Thank you so

33:15

much for the time. I really,

33:17

really do appreciate it and love your work

33:19

and you're just fabulous in this film. Thank

33:22

you so much for your interview. I

33:24

really appreciate it. It was fun. Okay.

33:27

Thanks a lot. See ya. Take care.

33:31

NIAID is streaming now on Netflix.

33:34

Thanks so much for joining me.

33:36

I'm Krista Smith, your host and

33:38

creator of the show. Skip Intro

33:40

is produced and edited by Isabel

33:42

Oricchio and engineered by Dave Corwin.

33:44

Special thanks to our coordinator, Alyssa

33:46

Hillman. Please subscribe, rate and

33:48

review Skip Intro wherever you've been listening.

33:51

You can find me on Twitter and

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