0:00

Trust in politics is broken. so

0:02

can we get Uk politics working

0:04

again? That was the last time

0:07

we were happy. Twenty twelve, I'm

0:09

Bath Rugby skies political editor. Join

0:12

me every week with Labor's Jess

0:14

Phillips and Conservative peer Ruth Davidson

0:16

for some electro dysfunction. This idea

0:19

of nuances complete levels to yeah

0:21

together will focus on the policies

0:23

that could deliver a political satisfaction.

0:26

Follow a lecture dysfunction wherever you

0:28

get your podcasts. After.

0:31

Spending the weekend, deflate, doing or

0:33

what is based for my party

0:35

for the government. And for

0:37

the country I lead have concluded

0:39

that repeating a relationship across the

0:42

political debate can only be done

0:44

the someone else at the helm.

0:47

I. Have therefore informed the As

0:49

impedes National Secretary of my intention

0:51

to standard as party leader and

0:53

ask that she commences a leadership

0:56

contest for my replacement as soon

0:58

as possible. It wasn't meant to

1:00

end this way for Hamza Yusuf

1:02

to become leader of the Scottish

1:05

National Party and therefore Scotland's six

1:07

First Minister. And the first. He

1:09

wasn't White heat overcome some serious

1:11

challenges, not least in a bruising

1:13

leadership campaign. One yet and one

1:16

month later, he is. Gone and

1:18

in a Shakespearean twist worthy of the

1:20

Scottish play it was one of the

1:22

women he beat and that leadership contest

1:24

you held his future in her hands.

1:26

That's Ash Reagan and will hear more

1:28

about her and all the other protagonist

1:30

in this intriguing political tail during the

1:32

course of this episode of the Sky

1:34

News Daily with Meet My Bomb as.

1:39

To how do we get hit

1:41

Scotty Scotland Correspondent colleague Gillis has

1:43

been following things very closely, including

1:45

chasing Hamza Yusuf run Scotland the

1:47

past few days Com To. He.

1:50

Had big shoes to fill when he

1:52

came to lead the Snp and leading

1:54

a party that been in power for

1:56

a long time already at that point.

1:59

Yeah, that's that's. Quite the introduction chasing

2:01

Hamza Yusuf around Scotland last few days.

2:03

Are they not fair to say that

2:05

has been the case because he's been

2:07

chopping and changing his position so much

2:09

and corner he was the disagreement the

2:11

falling out with the Green party that

2:13

he share power with that led to

2:15

this moment today and and is leaving

2:17

speech he admitted that that seem to

2:19

be a mistake. The where he's handling

2:21

mass said begs the question. Was.

2:23

Hamza Yusuf, politically astute enough for

2:26

the top job. I'm

2:28

standing here in Edinburgh at Be House

2:30

the official residence of the First Minister

2:32

of Scotland said I kind of suburban

2:35

street not far from the main city

2:37

centre. On the Ice agreement, as it

2:39

was Colds was essentially a coalition between

2:42

the Snp and the Greens have set

2:44

up and Twenty Twenty one by the

2:46

dead First Minister Nicola Sturgeon. In the

2:49

whole point was to try and three

2:51

a pro independence majority of Holyrood which

2:53

would make it easier to pass budgets

2:56

to pass key votes in. The

2:58

Parliament and that worked well

3:00

for a while for both.

3:02

The party's certainly worked well

3:04

for the Greens, but there

3:07

has been disquiet. There's been

3:09

growing unease among key Smp

3:11

senior figures and the past

3:13

year or so, particularly around

3:16

the Greens influence and government

3:18

whether they have overreached and

3:20

their authority And it came

3:22

to a recently and terms

3:24

of the Snp Green Pats

3:27

ditching climate. Targets. That was a

3:29

humiliation for the Greens and government. We

3:31

think the only Greens and government in

3:33

a world where they were part of

3:35

a climate. they claim don't

3:37

on their targets or there's also been

3:40

some disquiet around gender reforms the why

3:42

this is so interesting and a kind

3:44

of was back to the the drama

3:47

that this has become is because to

3:49

see of last week hamza yusuf the

3:51

freshness of scotland told sky news that

3:54

dot partnership with the greens was worth

3:56

it's weight in gold and then forty

3:58

hours later he summons the Green Minister's

4:00

here to Butte House in Edinburgh, where he sacked

4:02

them. And I think the

4:05

admission today here in his

4:07

resignation speech was that he

4:09

clearly dramatically, sensationally

4:11

miscalculated how the Greens

4:13

would react, because they

4:16

said that they would then knock back

4:18

a no-confidence motion that is looming in

4:20

the Scottish Parliament this week on his

4:22

leadership. And he didn't factor that in

4:24

to his sums when he sacked them.

4:27

So the right thing was on the wall

4:29

at that stage. He has battled ever since

4:31

to save his political career. He

4:34

talked about chasing him around the country

4:36

and pursuing him. Well, we were trying

4:38

to ask valid questions about whether he

4:41

could survive his no-confidence vote, given all

4:44

of the opposition parties were engineering that

4:46

in a way where it could prove

4:48

fatal. And then we get to this

4:50

morning and you suddenly break in the

4:52

news that he was considering his position.

4:54

And we had a conversation with a

4:57

very senior source close to Hamza Yousif

4:59

just before seven o'clock this morning, Monday

5:01

morning. And they

5:03

had said that they were looking

5:05

at a situation where they would have had

5:07

to strike a deal with the Alaba party.

5:09

They have one MSP. And that person is

5:12

Ash Regan, who defected from the SMP when

5:14

she lost the leadership contest in the SMP

5:16

last year. Of course, Conor, Alex Sammond is

5:18

someone who has an axe to grind against

5:21

his former party, the SMP. He

5:23

is a man with a bitter, bitter feud

5:25

against the SMP. They do not

5:27

like each other and they haven't done for quite

5:30

a number of years. So

5:32

going back to that conversation at seven o'clock this morning

5:34

with a close source towards Hamza Yousif, they

5:36

were saying, look, that is like doing a

5:38

deal with the devil. So

5:40

you either box yourself into that or

5:42

you do the other option, which is

5:44

to resign. And the walls

5:46

were closing in. He had no other option. He

5:49

was going to lose that vote and rather than

5:51

do a deal with Alex Sammond, he

5:53

walked away. It's not

5:55

confusing, Conor. It truly is Shakespearean, like I

5:58

said, for all these storylines that come. in

6:00

with Sam and Zach Stegrion with

6:02

the SMP and Ash Regan suddenly coming back

6:04

to prominence having been beaten in that leadership

6:06

contest. Let's focus on

6:09

the other women in that leadership contest and others who may

6:11

now want to take over as leader of

6:13

the SMP and therefore first minister for

6:15

a bit. You mentioned Kate Forbes. We

6:18

know that she's likely to throw her hat

6:20

back in the ring. Who else could take

6:22

over from Humsey Yousif and be the seventh

6:25

first minister of Scotland? John Swinney, the very

6:27

close ally to Nicholas Sturgeon and Humsey

6:30

Yousif, he's seen as a steady

6:33

pair of hands, a safe pair of hands

6:35

to steady the SMP through yet

6:37

another crisis. He has said that he

6:39

is very actively considering standing to be

6:42

the next SMP leader. Now, he has

6:44

been the SMP leader in the past,

6:46

back in 2000, I think. He

6:48

was around for four years, but that was

6:51

before the SMP was the big dominant political

6:53

force that it is today. Nevertheless,

6:55

he is a grande of the

6:58

party. He has

7:00

the authority. He has the respect

7:03

among party members. And

7:05

is he the man that could sort

7:08

out this mess, for want of a

7:11

better phrase, that the SMP finds itself

7:13

in now with Humsey Yousif departing office?

7:15

I think if he declares that he

7:17

is going to stand to be

7:19

the next leader, it'll be very,

7:21

very hard for anyone else to come into the

7:24

mix there. We've got a big

7:26

election year ahead. We need a safe pair of hands

7:28

and I'm the man to do it. Let's see what

7:30

happens. Conor, let me just finish by asking you, having

7:32

spent so much time with Humsey Yousif, having spoken to

7:34

him a lot over recent days, and

7:37

obviously having seen him get emotional

7:39

in that press conference, especially

7:41

when he was talking about his family, what's he like

7:43

as a man? What's he been

7:45

like as a person to deal with

7:47

professionally? His opponents could say a lot

7:49

about his integrity, his

7:51

credibility As the

7:53

SMP leader and as the first minister of

7:56

Scotland. But when his career was on the

7:58

ropes, just on Friday, they are. And

8:00

there was a suggestion that he might

8:02

quit a few days ago rather than

8:05

shield away from the press, from the

8:07

media, from us who at all waiting

8:09

with bated breath to ask him questions

8:12

about whether he would stay or whether

8:14

he would go. He arrived in Dundee

8:16

on Friday and I think there was

8:18

about twenty media interviews. We were told

8:21

we were gonna get to questions each

8:23

and he just spoke an answer to

8:25

each and every question. So would you

8:28

get? That was all. politicians? certainly. Not

8:30

did you get that with

8:32

Hamza Yusuf yes you dead

8:35

at sea salts his candidacy

8:37

last year Or openness and

8:39

transparency. I think even as

8:42

harshest critics would suggest that.is

8:44

not something that he delivered

8:46

an office. So.

8:51

What is? Leave the Scottish National

8:53

Party and the Independence Movement Scotland

8:55

overall In a moment's dig into.

9:10

So hums uses is gone. But where

9:12

does that leave his party? The Snp

9:14

who help our in Scotland for the

9:16

last seventeen years pull Hudson his political

9:18

editor of the day records and shoot

9:20

a craven his community editor and com

9:23

this that the National. They've both been

9:25

watching the comings and goings of Holyrood

9:27

for most of that time. Let

9:31

me ask you shown a first:

9:33

Why is the Scottish National Party

9:35

seemingly in such dire straits? The

9:37

middle? Because a lot of people

9:39

making comparisons with the Conservatives in

9:41

Westminster. Well,

9:47

I don't think that is narrative at

9:49

all. I mean, we've had Hamza Yusuf

9:51

in post for. A year which

9:53

a until recently might have been seem like.

9:56

Quite short tenure for officer be looked

9:58

at Westminster perhaps less so. One

10:17

Hundred Fifty. Four

10:21

of them to do you fall

10:23

off of the month minimum of

10:26

own father under the from the

10:28

flow of on the floor and

10:30

will have no room. For his

10:33

position average guy and he find I

10:35

could cost i think courage to pick

10:37

up the point it shouldn't be there

10:39

and. The. Manner in which he

10:41

ditched the greens was just so

10:43

and next click click to do

10:45

such a brutal we by insisting

10:47

he can walk the walk of

10:50

shame. excited at of his residence

10:52

for the cameras he didn't you

10:54

to do that we have should

10:56

have sensitivity and particularly given that

10:58

he would need them in any

11:00

confidence was so I do feel

11:02

like. That was the big call

11:04

the had to me as first minister and

11:06

the we went about it was wrong but

11:08

make no mistake if he hadn't. Ended to

11:11

be as agreement and we had

11:13

ended it it still be First

11:15

minister said the reason though that

11:17

agreement in the first places because

11:19

the Greens like the Snp with

11:21

pro independence as all the other

11:23

party which was overseas founded by

11:25

Alec Salmon post his time in

11:27

the Scottish National Party with all

11:29

this mess now shown up where

11:31

does this leave the movement for

11:33

Independence and stuff and. Home.

11:40

Home. Home

11:42

Mom. Have.

11:48

To have a movement. Of

11:53

a muslim for. More

11:55

uncomfortable. With. listen

11:58

to the both have That is one of the

12:01

things I have to tell my viewers, the leaders

12:03

of the left, is that all the diversity of

12:05

youth on the front of the front, although

12:07

it is seen that same kind of

12:09

content at this time around, I think

12:11

with our whole development in two years away,

12:13

the people who really want to make

12:16

a difference in the left and people who want to

12:18

lead a majority government, they don't really

12:20

want to inherit a minority in

12:22

this difficult pickle. What do

12:24

you think about the independence movement at the

12:26

moment? Because it's pretty telling, isn't it, Paul,

12:28

that some of those big names,

12:30

Nicholas Dersch and Alex Salmon, have already

12:32

talked about, they cast very big shadows

12:34

over everything still now, don't they? If

12:37

Scotland is ever to become

12:39

independent, the springboard of that

12:41

is a successful SNP

12:44

government. We don't have that just now.

12:46

Another plank of that is that Scotland

12:48

has become independent. There's going to

12:50

have to be a referendum at some point, but

12:52

the SNP government can't deliver on that. The

12:54

UK government keeps saying no, which is what

12:56

they're doing. There is no plan

12:59

B around that. I think that

13:01

is part of the problem

13:03

for the independence movement. There is no agreed

13:05

strategy on how to get to their destination

13:07

because all roads have been closed off. You

13:09

may argue that's fair, you may argue it's

13:11

undemocratic, but it's just a fact of life.

13:14

We end up in a situation where Humza

13:16

Yousafieh, going first minister, came up with a

13:19

policy. I think it was an

13:21

SNP winning a majority of seats at the

13:23

general election. That's not

13:25

a strategy that has united the independence movement

13:27

at all. You just

13:29

have to look at the last couple of weeks. The

13:32

SNP have kicked out the Scottish

13:34

Greens from the government. The Greens

13:36

will not share a platform with

13:38

Alaba. Senior figures

13:40

in the SNP despise Alex

13:42

Sammond. Alex Sammond, I think,

13:45

for some people has used Alaba as a

13:47

sort of revenge mission on the

13:49

SNP. That's not a united

13:51

independence movement. I know that the independence

13:54

movement is wider than political parties, but

13:56

political parties are pretty fundamental parts of

13:58

that movement. You can just

14:00

see the different parties turning on each other and I'm not

14:03

sure how they can put it back together Pumsy

14:05

Yousef leaves. I mean he might

14:07

have a little while yet because he's a caretaker for the

14:10

time being but he leaves after 13

14:12

months. What do you both

14:14

think his legacy will be? Paul first?

14:17

I think his legacy is probably a

14:19

negative one in that I think

14:21

his time in office Shows that if

14:23

you want to be a minority government

14:26

You have to show tact, guile

14:28

and cunning And he failed

14:30

to do that in the manner in which he

14:32

ditched the Greens You need a

14:35

politician who can build bridges

14:37

who can work across the aisle And

14:40

who recognizes that you will need the

14:42

support of the Scottish Greens because the

14:44

pro-uk parties will not come to your

14:46

rescue For things like budgets

14:48

or legislation So I

14:51

think that he made a big political

14:53

miscalculation, a big political blunder and that

14:55

is going to define his time in

14:57

office Yeah Shona, I mean

14:59

Paul's not the first to talk about blunders

15:01

when it comes to Humsey Yousef. People or

15:04

others saying he's been gas-prone What

15:06

do you think his legacy is? I think it's

15:08

unfair to suggest that Humsey Yousef has been gas-prone And

15:10

I think it is a real shame that the manner

15:12

of his age that will perhaps come to

15:15

heart It's a leadership that has

15:17

actually caused a lot of cuts

15:19

and sensitivity He's a leadership campaign

15:22

with very sort of civil, compared to

15:24

perhaps his performance at Pines Next

15:26

News I think he has done

15:29

well in life, I think a lot of people

15:31

have said that he's been mad bad He's

15:35

been a leader and things like this He hasn't

15:37

really had the time to put his own mark on

15:39

his own And he did a lot of

15:41

things I think he's

15:44

been a big believer in the fact that

15:46

he can back course with a suit

15:49

However, wanting to judge

15:51

in the long run how that policy and how

15:53

that issues and the law actually makes

15:55

a difference I think he will be remembered for his

15:57

leadership with regard to Gaza a

16:00

very personal family interest in that conflict.

16:02

But I think he earned a lot

16:05

of freebies, because people do not

16:07

know if he's a poor person and he has a

16:09

payment certificate, so I think he will be remembered for

16:11

that. So I think he will be remembered

16:13

as someone who quick on a job

16:15

at a really difficult time and did not think he

16:17

could do it. Let's finish off

16:20

by trying to think

16:22

about what happens next. In the conversation

16:24

with Conor earlier, we talked about who

16:27

may be the leading contenders to take over

16:29

from Humsey, Yousef. John Swinney,

16:31

of course, a grande of the SNP.

16:33

Kate Forbes, who was beaten in the last

16:36

leadership contest. Stephen Flynn, who's the leader

16:38

of the SNP and Westminster, is a

16:40

name that crops up, as does Neil

16:43

Gray, who's Cabinet Secretary for Health and

16:45

Social Care in the Scottish Parliament. Whoever it

16:47

happens to be, they're not going to get

16:50

awfully long, shown, or are they, to stamp

16:52

their mark with an election due to take place in

16:54

2026. Whoever

16:56

it is, they've got their work cut out. Yeah,

16:59

I feel for Gentsley because there is a

17:01

lot of pressure on him.

17:03

And Gentsley didn't really want

17:05

to do this again. But

17:07

I think for these two, the AP may

17:09

be going to just try and open to

17:12

the rest of the room up and just

17:14

from the green, and the people taking over, which

17:16

is the last thing that is

17:18

independent of the people who feel. But I

17:20

think if I was Kate Forbes, I would

17:22

want to be able to go into an

17:24

election and let the people decide whether they

17:26

are dealing with hospital or if they'd rather

17:29

than making the same decisions they need to

17:31

say if they are willing to allow her

17:33

to become post-Minister. So I think ambitious

17:35

politicians, possibly fewer, are going to have

17:37

the intent for all the work that's

17:39

going to happen to me. I want to

17:42

lead a majority of the government and lead

17:44

the country to independence. And that will

17:46

take some time. But I would point out

17:48

that to make minority government work,

17:50

you need the support of your own group, and

17:52

you need to be able to build bridges with

17:55

the other parties. I would very

17:57

much doubt whether Kate Forbes has it in her

17:59

to unite... Hello and good. When. You

18:01

have someone who does not believe the gay

18:03

people should be allowed to get married to

18:06

his anti abortion to said some cutest things

18:08

on buffer Zones is she really gonna be

18:10

would see liked or group on a day

18:12

to day basis. I think there are many

18:15

people got their deaths of without. These

18:18

undoubtedly conversations for the coming weeks or

18:20

months. But for now thank you both

18:22

Very much City that's Pool Hudson from

18:24

The Daily Record and shown a craven

18:26

from the National. In

18:30

reality, that's not quite it for Hamza

18:32

Yusuf. He said he will stay on

18:34

his first minister until his successor is

18:36

elected, and also this week there is

18:38

a fairly crucial vote of confidence in

18:40

the Scottish National Party as wells all

18:42

eyes on that. But that's it for

18:44

today for this edition of the Sky

18:46

On is that he thanks for listening.

18:48

We're back tomorrow.