This week, guest-host Kristen Meinzer talks to Joshua Jay, a world-class magician, storyteller, and author of multiple books about the history and craft of magic. In the interview, Joshua explains how he’s able to conceive of, design, and execute original tricks. He also talks about the role of storytelling in his work, and he explains how certain narrative structures can make for better performances. 

After the interview, Kristen and co-host June Thomas talk about Joshua’s high standards for his work and why they’re sometimes reluctant to “kill their darlings.”

In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, Joshua describes different varieties of magic. He also talks about the cliche ways magicians are often portrayed in movies. Send your questions about creativity and any other feedback to [email protected] or give us a call at (304) 933-9675.

Podcast production by Cameron Drews.

If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows—you’ll also be supporting the work we do here on Working. Sign up now at slate.com/workingplus to help support our work.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices