0:06

You're listening to Well Now, Slate's podcast

0:08

on health and wellness. I'm Kavita Patel.

0:11

And I'm Maya Feller. So a real

0:13

vital component of wellness is really taking

0:15

care of our mental health. Kavita, you

0:17

and I have talked so much about

0:21

what wellness is and what it isn't. And

0:23

I think that every time we have this

0:25

conversation, a new piece comes to

0:27

mind for me. When

0:30

we hear people talking about mental health and

0:32

mental wellness, I know for

0:34

me for sure that I know it's more

0:36

than just drinking water or going for a

0:38

walk or a forest bathing, all good things,

0:40

but it's so much more than that. It

0:42

is, Maya. And I think it's

0:45

also so much more than just even

0:47

talking about mental health or stigma with

0:49

it. We know that

0:51

at least one in six people

0:53

probably have some sort of mental

0:56

health diagnosis, often

0:58

undiagnosed or underdiagnosed.

1:01

One in eight in the world,

1:03

according to the World Health Organization,

1:05

live with a diagnosed mental disorder.

1:08

So we're not talking

1:10

about something that's rare or unusual.

1:13

It's everywhere. And when you think about how

1:15

many people we just have in our household,

1:17

Maya, just under our roofs, there's

1:19

a chance that one of us has something.

1:22

And I certainly know that this affects me personally.

1:24

I think we're going to try

1:26

to talk about that. That's why it was important for

1:28

us to try to find someone that could have

1:31

a conversation with us, not just

1:33

about what being well means in

1:35

the context of mental health, but

1:37

how you live, have relationships, and

1:39

just have a life with mental

1:41

illness. You know, Kavita, I'm really

1:44

interested in the idea of bringing

1:46

this conversation into the

1:48

mainstream. Just as you said, there's so many

1:50

people that are either living

1:52

with or know someone that

1:54

is navigating a Mental

1:57

Health challenge, but yet it's not

1:59

openly. Discussed and I feel

2:01

that does like society. At

2:03

large is significant disservice. Some.

2:06

Very. Much looking forward to

2:09

this conversation to really highlight

2:11

some of these experiences. The

2:13

lived experiences that people are having and later

2:15

on in the So. We're. Going

2:17

to speak with someone who's

2:20

found understanding. Around their own mental

2:22

health through writing and building a community

2:24

like a pretty significant community on my.

2:26

However, could beat us before we get to

2:29

the at I'd like to actually. Know.

2:32

A little bit more from you. Like.

2:34

How have you been navigating your

2:36

own mental health day? I probably

2:39

did appear very poor job as

2:41

navigating mental health. I was brought

2:43

up in an era and in

2:45

a culture where mental health was

2:47

and probably still is a shameful

2:49

diagnosis. Something to not speak about.

2:51

Something that you should try to

2:54

just over com and I would

2:56

say for me it started in

2:58

sales hood. We now know there's

3:00

something called adverse Childhood Events Aces

3:02

which is basically exposure to trauma.

3:05

Even my as something as simple

3:07

as exposure to seeing a gun

3:09

can lead to canada longer term

3:11

effects in your life and health

3:13

and wellbeing. And I. Grew up around

3:15

a lot of violence, I grew up in

3:17

head of the middle in the heart of.

3:20

Like a pretty. Intense.

3:22

Gang infested neighborhood and we ran a

3:24

motel. And there were murders. Insider Motel

3:26

I. I didn't think about how much

3:29

that affected me until I was. In

3:31

medical school and and fellowship and

3:33

training and that concept of aces came

3:35

forward. My thought? yeah that was

3:37

probably something that a. Few.

3:39

Know. Sort. Of a have like

3:42

help. We didn't even have school day

3:44

three back then. so my experience. Probably

3:46

started with the. Intense. Experience

3:48

for the lack of awareness and then

3:50

even as much as I'd like to

3:53

say I'm a doctor a very educated

3:55

I myself cut a deal with as

3:57

I mentioned that of these history of

3:59

of. From an ongoing events I

4:01

can see sometimes in my day

4:03

to day practice how. I overlook other

4:06

people's mental illness. We have a to

4:08

question screener that we use something called

4:10

a. Ph. Cute to it's

4:12

a to it's a to question depression

4:14

screener. We gloss over things. As

4:16

you know, if you're not glaringly positive,

4:19

we don't really stop and talk about

4:21

it with people because my, it takes

4:23

time and as we're going to learn

4:25

from our guess it's complicated, There is

4:27

no one the saying that all mental

4:30

mental illness is not one diagnosis or

4:32

one disease and it manifests in so

4:34

many different ways and we're still learning

4:36

a lot about it. So that's both

4:38

my personal and professional experience. Maya, how

4:41

about you? Well, I'd seen my personal

4:43

life like every good New Yorker. I've

4:45

been in therapy since I was ten. And

4:50

I mean, I shouldn't laugh, but

4:52

it's true, so I'm probably very

4:54

well adjusted in a i always

4:56

see them really good. It adds.

4:59

Having a discussion and verbalizing every emotion

5:01

and feeling that I'm having. The real

5:04

question is okay. So like what do

5:06

I do with those feelings on than

5:08

how do I actually navigate through life

5:10

as someone who. Has probably been

5:12

over therapy. Ties to. I feel like when I

5:15

was growing up I had a lotta. Access

5:17

to Mental Health care. He

5:19

and I. Mean, I grew up

5:21

in this mixed race lesbian home so that

5:23

was just outside of the norm and. Because.

5:26

Of room So progressive. There was

5:28

a lot of discussion and talking

5:30

about identity. And awareness and

5:33

so. That was beautiful that it

5:35

wasn't until I got to college to be there

5:37

that I realize holy shit. I. Am

5:39

totally the anomaly see or slides

5:41

talked about unicorn in the room.

5:43

That was me. Yeah,

5:46

so therapy has been

5:48

a mainstay in my

5:50

experience, and I think.

5:53

In my work, this is what

5:55

I know to be true because

5:57

nutrition has sought medical nutrition therapy

5:59

components. I end up working

6:01

pretty. Closely with a number of

6:04

people who has mental health

6:06

diagnoses and helping them. Navigate

6:08

how to nourish themselves,

6:11

In the sea of whatever the

6:13

diagnosis is and we often see

6:15

the same person for. A

6:17

fairly long period of time. Anywhere

6:20

from three months to a year

6:22

for thirty forty five or sixty

6:24

minutes. So I get to know

6:26

people fairly intimately. And it's slow,

6:29

slow, slow works. And

6:31

I think somehow that therapy that I've

6:33

done for myself helps me as a

6:36

provider. this slowdown, listen and be present

6:38

in a different way. and I think

6:40

my family would probably say that I'd

6:42

like to tough with them. Get

6:45

some to tearing with everyone else. Let's

6:56

bring another flows into this conversation. So

6:58

when we come back, we'll talk with

7:00

someone who's written about how she's navigated

7:02

her life and close relationship while living

7:05

with metal. Listeners

7:19

and years join the. So and want

7:21

to hear more? subscribe To Our face

7:24

New emphasis on every. Wednesday morning.

7:26

why are they are? Check out

7:28

other episodes to like. Last week's

7:30

about how our understanding. Of Marxism

7:32

has changed over the years. That

7:34

caregiving reporter Sarah Lieutenant. Saturday. Welcome

7:42

back, you're listening to Well now I'm

7:45

Kathy to Patel and I my A

7:47

salary. Joining us to talk about wellness

7:49

and mental health is Allison Raskin, who

7:51

recently wrote about how O C. D

7:53

A sex her marriage for sleet. She's

7:56

also co host of the podcast. Just

7:58

between us which is. incredibly hilarious,

8:00

by the way, and the

8:03

author of Overthinking About You,

8:06

Navigating Romantic Relationships When You

8:08

Have Anxiety, OCD, and

8:11

or Depression. Allison, thank you

8:13

so much for joining us. Oh, thank you

8:15

so much for having me. It is a

8:17

pleasure. Okay, so before we get started, I

8:20

want to ask you this question that we

8:22

ask everyone. And as Kavita says, which I

8:24

love so much, it's not a gotcha question,

8:27

just we want to know. So

8:30

how do you define wellness?

8:33

Oh, that's such a tricky term,

8:35

because I feel like it's been

8:37

monopolized by an industry trying to

8:39

gouge us for money. So

8:43

I have a I always tend to

8:45

talk about like, what's mental health and

8:47

physical health. But wellness, I

8:49

guess, to me is when you

8:51

don't feel like you

8:54

want to die. That's

8:57

a good one. Yeah. Yes,

9:00

yes. And that resonates. That resonates.

9:02

Yeah. When

9:05

you're doing well enough that you're like,

9:07

I want to continue where I am

9:09

and what I'm doing. Mm hmm. And

9:12

it's so true. It's definitely been a monopolize. But I

9:14

think that's why we like to ask it because I

9:16

think your words are just as as

9:19

much of where we are and thinking about

9:21

day to day, what being well means for

9:23

at least, I would say probably the three

9:25

of us now I resonate with that. So

9:28

so we're talking, Allison, just so much

9:30

the richness around

9:32

your writing, but specifically around

9:35

maintaining wellness while living

9:37

and dealing with mental illness. I'll say I love

9:39

to kind of remind people that like, you know,

9:41

health care doesn't stop at your neck. There's

9:44

like so much about your mental health

9:46

that has everything to do

9:48

with all aspects of your health

9:50

and your life. Can

9:52

you share your experience of

9:55

your mental health journey and just

9:58

how it's affected your life? So

10:00

mine started pretty early. When I was

10:02

four years old, I got strep throat

10:05

and that sort of set off

10:07

this thing called pandas. And I'll do a

10:09

little PSA. Pandas is

10:11

short for pediatric autoimmune

10:13

neuropsychiatric disorders associated with strep, if

10:16

I'm not mistaken, just for people

10:18

listening who might not know pandas. Yeah, I

10:20

never bothered to remember what it actually stood

10:22

for, but it is basically when a neurological

10:24

thing is brought on by strep throat, which

10:27

basically means that it ignited OCD

10:29

and an OCD that came on

10:31

really strong and really fast to

10:33

the point where my parents got

10:36

me tested to see if I had

10:38

a brain tumor because my behavior had changed

10:40

so quickly. But I was really, really

10:42

lucky because this is back in 1993, 1994, and when talking

10:44

about mental

10:49

health, taking mental health seriously wasn't

10:51

really people's jam yet. But

10:53

they got me into a doctor who

10:55

took it super seriously and I ended

10:58

up going to... I lived in New

11:00

York and we went down to Johns

11:02

Hopkins to see a specialist who was

11:04

working with giving kids medication. And so

11:06

I was put on Prozac when I

11:08

was four years old, which was pretty

11:11

rad and new. And I'm just so glad

11:13

that my family was like, yep, this is

11:15

what we need to do. She's sick. We

11:17

need to treat it like an illness. And so

11:19

I don't have any reference point for

11:21

not being mentally ill. I

11:23

don't have any idea of what

11:25

it means to exist in the world

11:27

without having OCD and some

11:30

level of anxiety coursing through my body. And

11:34

it's been an interesting journey because the

11:37

things that really are hard was

11:39

more like the generalized anxiety

11:41

and the doubts of depression.

11:44

And I feel like I have really gotten

11:46

those under control as I've gotten older and

11:48

as I've gone back on medication because of

11:50

course I had my rebellions

11:53

of I don't need medication, which was

11:55

like, wow, how different my 20s could

11:57

have been if I was just medicated.

12:00

And so now I'd say that

12:02

like what's really the main thing

12:04

left over is the OCD and

12:06

is the contamination OCD and that

12:09

is the final frontier where it

12:11

just feels like, okay, I've done

12:13

a lot of work on myself.

12:15

I've gotten myself to a much

12:17

better place. I don't have suicidal

12:19

ideation anymore. I'm in a healthy

12:22

relationship. I enjoy my life, but

12:24

my contamination OCD remains. I

12:26

was watching your podcast just between us and

12:28

I have to say that you do this

12:31

amazing thing where

12:33

you are so honest

12:36

and so humble. Welcome

12:46

back to Just Between Us, your

12:48

weekly dose of animal videos. That

12:50

would probably get a lot of views. That

12:53

would be better than the show. Yeah,

12:55

I agree. But then at the same time,

12:57

just super right about your

12:59

experience and you just draw people

13:02

in and really

13:04

do a job of de-stigmatizing

13:07

the experiences that you have.

13:09

So it makes it so

13:11

relatable to everyone,

13:14

including those of us that don't

13:16

have a diagnosis of OCD,

13:18

depression or anxiety.

13:21

A compulsion is something

13:23

that you need to do to

13:26

relieve the discomfort from your

13:28

obsession, right? But I also

13:30

know that a lot of my compulsions are

13:33

annoying and rude. From

13:35

your perspective, living with OCD

13:38

and other mental illnesses, what do you think

13:40

is the part that's most misunderstood? So

13:42

I think a big misunderstanding with

13:45

OCD is how debilitating it

13:47

is. OCD

13:50

is, I have used

13:52

to call it the grab bag of mental illness.

13:55

It is one disorder, but the way

13:57

that it can present is so varied.

14:00

experience of OCD might be completely

14:02

different than your experience of OCD,

14:05

and also the level and impact that it has

14:07

on our lives. And so for

14:09

me, I personally have the type of

14:11

OCD that we see in a sitcom,

14:14

right? Like I have a contamination based

14:16

OCD, I, I do a

14:18

lot of cleaning behaviors and compulsions. But

14:20

for other people, their OCD might have

14:22

absolutely nothing to do with organization. Mine's

14:24

not really about organization, mine's about contamination,

14:27

which in and of itself is a

14:29

difference, right? And then they might

14:31

have harm OCD. So all that they're worried

14:33

about is that they're going to hurt somebody.

14:35

And so it is it is like an

14:37

internal struggle that you might

14:39

not even understand that they're dealing with.

14:42

And so I'd say that like the

14:44

flippancy with which we often refer to

14:46

OCD is a big misunderstanding. But also

14:48

as I you know, I got a

14:50

master's degree in psychology, so that I

14:53

could talk about the stuff from outside

14:55

of my own experience. And something

14:57

that I used to do wrong was that I

14:59

was a gatekeeper of the OCD diagnosis.

15:01

And so when someone would say like,

15:04

Oh, I'm OCD, too, I would be

15:06

like, when were you diagnosed, you know,

15:08

because I felt like that was like

15:10

a way of someone just like minimizing

15:12

this disorder. But having gone to school

15:14

and having learned so much like, I

15:16

much prefer the approach to diagnosis as

15:18

a spectrum rather than categorical where you

15:21

have it or you don't. And obviously,

15:23

there is a use for categorical in

15:25

terms of like getting a clinical diagnosis.

15:28

But in terms of like our day to day lives

15:30

and our experiences, it really is a

15:32

spectrum. And so who am I to

15:34

say that like, even if you don't

15:36

meet the clinical diagnosis of having OCD,

15:38

because these compulsions don't take up

15:41

a certain amount of time or cause you a

15:43

certain level of distress, that you don't

15:45

have OCD tendencies. And so

15:47

I think a lot of people have OCD

15:50

tendencies. The difference is just like, how big

15:52

is that impact, you know, and like when

15:54

it is really impacting your life and the

15:56

way that you function, then okay.

16:00

this is something that's, you know, we're maybe

16:02

going to put that in your chart, we're

16:04

maybe going to get you that help, that

16:06

medication, the ERP therapy, but I think a

16:08

lot of people have some tendencies. And

16:11

then in terms of like mental health

16:13

in general, I think we're getting better

16:15

at understanding the importance of mental health.

16:17

But I also think that our acceptance

16:19

level as a society has sort of

16:22

stopped at anxiety depression. I agree

16:24

100%. And like we are ignoring all the people

16:29

dealing with mania, dealing with psychosis.

16:32

And I hope that the next

16:34

wave of understanding and acceptance includes

16:37

all mental disorders, and even the ones

16:39

that sort of scare us or feel

16:41

like unrelatable to

16:43

the more mainstream experience.

16:46

Alison, in your opinion, why do you feel

16:48

like society has kind of stopped

16:50

at just the anxiety and depression?

16:52

Why not open the conversation

16:55

up in the mainstream? I think

16:57

it's too scary. Like I think

16:59

that I think psychosis is something that having

17:03

learned about it, but not experienced it

17:05

and not I never did practicum because

17:07

I didn't do a clinical degree. So

17:09

I never worked with clients. And therefore

17:11

I never worked with anyone with psychosis.

17:14

You know, I think it's something that

17:16

we've only seen portrayed as a scary

17:19

thing on TV and in media. And

17:21

so we don't understand like, that there

17:23

are people that we might know that

17:25

are living with schizophrenia or that like,

17:27

what it actually means for our bipolar

17:29

friend to have hypomania and the impact

17:31

that that has on their life as

17:33

a society, we can only move forward

17:35

so much. And it's really easy to

17:38

say like, Oh, I understand mental health, because

17:40

I understand anxiety and depression. But like, you

17:42

don't even know what it's like to have

17:45

a delusional disorder. That's still is like something

17:47

to make fun of. And I

17:49

think there's so much one stigma in general,

17:51

but then it's almost like

17:53

there's so much education to be depression

17:56

has become a little bit more of this,

17:58

like our anxiety. And And then when

18:00

you start to your point talking about delusional

18:02

disorder, personality disorders, obsessive compulsive

18:05

disorders, people are like, oh

18:07

gosh, they're just crazy. The

18:09

stigma of anything just kind of

18:12

pours back in and it's so

18:14

destructive, which is why it's

18:16

been so refreshing to have, I

18:19

think, a lot of people, but especially you leading,

18:21

just talking about how

18:23

OCD affects other aspects of

18:25

your life. Honestly, I found

18:27

the intersection with how

18:30

you've kind of navigated relationships, just

18:32

parts of your sub-stack and just

18:34

kind of relationships and others

18:36

who've chimed in about how like their

18:38

OCD affected dating and marriages.

18:42

Can you just tell us a little bit more about

18:44

this intersection with relationships and what

18:46

that looks like? And I'm smiling because

18:48

a lot of it is humorous and

18:51

just very, it's just downright funny. But

18:53

tell us about your journey there. It's definitely

18:55

like kind of two parts, right? Because there's

18:58

the part of your mental health that is

19:00

just your everyday life and therefore your partner

19:02

needs to understand how your mental health functions

19:05

and how your symptoms

19:07

interfere with your life and how to

19:09

be an empathetic and caring partner. And

19:12

then there's a part of your mental health

19:14

that directly impacts your relationship and your ability

19:16

to be in a relationship. And

19:19

I think that that first part of like,

19:22

just my mental health impacts my daily life

19:24

and my partner therefore needs to understand how

19:26

my brain works still there in

19:28

my marriage, whereas like I was able to

19:30

get to a place where like my mental

19:32

health was under control

19:34

enough that it wasn't impacting

19:37

my ability to be in a

19:39

relationship. But I think

19:41

for a lot of people, this

19:43

thing called Relationship OCD or Relationship

19:46

Anxiety can really get in the

19:48

way of their ability to be in

19:50

a long-term committed relationship because they

19:52

are constantly wondering

19:54

either if they're in the

19:56

right relationship, like are they in love this

19:59

constant feeling of like what is loved? Am

20:01

I feeling love correctly? Do I have enough

20:03

love? And then also on the

20:05

flip side, like an obsession around like, does

20:07

my partner love me? Like is my part

20:09

like am I good enough for my partner?

20:12

And that's exhausting.

20:15

And I think because you know, ROCD hasn't,

20:17

it's been getting more momentum and more people

20:19

are familiar with it. But like even me,

20:21

I didn't know what it was. I maybe

20:23

learned about it five years ago. And I've

20:26

had OCD my whole life. And

20:28

so really understanding like, hey,

20:30

like, am I just

20:32

haven't found the right person yet? Versus

20:35

like, am I in a loop in

20:37

my brain that makes it impossible for

20:39

me to feel like I'm in the

20:41

right relationship? Allison, before you had spoken

20:43

a little bit about your 20s, and

20:45

you said, Oh, had I known, what

20:49

what was the had I known?

20:51

I think that I'm someone that

20:53

needs medication. My thoughts around

20:55

medication have changed and fluctuated a lot.

20:57

I think for a long time, I

20:59

thought that medication was just great for

21:01

everybody and worked as effectively for everybody

21:03

as it does for me. And unfortunately,

21:06

that's not the case. Some people have

21:08

tried a bunch of medications and none

21:10

of them are helpful. And that really

21:12

sucks. Or the side effects are too

21:14

intense that it's it's not worth it.

21:17

But for me, I'm someone and I

21:19

think I can trace this back to

21:21

the fact that my OCD is very

21:24

biologically based, right? Like going back

21:26

to that pandas, it's like really

21:28

like a biological genetic predisposition brought on

21:30

by strep throat, like, logically, it makes

21:32

sense that like, oh, that's the

21:34

kind of thing that like medication will

21:37

probably help and work with. But

21:39

I had this aversion to it in my 20s.

21:41

And I took myself off of my meds the

21:43

summer before my senior year of college, because I

21:46

was like, Oh, I don't need this. And

21:48

I and like, it's again, like, what does need me

21:50

in my 20s, I

21:52

built an incredible career that like,

21:55

Honestly, it's better than the career I have

21:57

now. Like I Hit like a peak of.

22:00

My career. I was very professionally

22:02

successful. I had a lot of

22:04

fun. it's a lot of cool

22:06

things old also suffering a lot

22:08

and something that my psychiatrist oh

22:10

he says is like. Why?

22:12

Do you have to white knuckle your way through

22:14

life? right? Like I can white

22:16

knuckle my way through life. I can

22:19

get it all done and do it

22:21

all adds accomplish my goals but I

22:23

may be miserable doing that and the

22:25

medication piece for me take that extra

22:28

struggle way. it doesn't alleviate all my

22:30

symptoms. doesn't mean they don't have a

22:32

Cd any more, but it just has

22:34

quite is the noise. and like the

22:37

baseline of where I start is higher

22:39

than where it is when I'm off

22:41

meds and so that means that like

22:43

I have more wiggle room. In

22:45

terms of when I have a

22:47

bad faith, I'm not going as

22:50

far down as I did in

22:52

the past. So.

22:59

Much words or less. Hit the

23:01

brakes and when we come back, we're going to hear

23:03

more from Alice and Raskin about maintaining wellness. You're

23:22

listening to Well now some sleep.

23:25

I'm Cathy to Patel and I

23:27

my A seller were continue or

23:29

conversation with else in Raskin about

23:32

maintaining wellness and healthy relationships while

23:34

living with mental illness. So Allison

23:37

in Twenty twenty you sir. This

23:39

Instagram. Account called emotional

23:41

Support Lady. Can. You

23:43

tell us a little bit about

23:45

what that project is. So that

23:47

project is one of those things

23:49

where I was like I succeeded

23:51

at Siggraph. That's just mental health

23:53

focus because at the time I

23:56

was already a Mental Health has

23:58

a kit, but I had. Started

24:00

grad school and so as it's

24:02

like i'm learning all of these

24:04

like fascinating things in grad school

24:06

I wanna like sheer it but

24:08

also it's like feels weird to

24:10

interrupt my mean instagram which is

24:12

like a lot of like comedy

24:14

and weird stuff with a sexual

24:16

judo, scientific base mental health it

24:18

for me since as so i

24:20

thought of the term emotional support

24:22

li and probably like five minutes

24:24

and then started his instagram not

24:26

realizing kind of what it would

24:28

be com from that. Instagram. I started

24:31

it in twenty twenty I he said

24:33

and it was sort of at the

24:35

beginning I was is sort of doing

24:37

that regular thing of cancer designs answer

24:39

to looks like everyone else is and

24:41

then I ended up. Drawing.

24:43

This one post because I had a visual a my

24:45

head and I am I don't know how does he

24:48

was Graphics: I was like others draw this thing. And

24:51

it was me. Like drawing like what

24:53

my mental health dirty looks like. It

24:55

it was like a line of peaks

24:58

and valleys and ups and downs and

25:00

all of than. and and then I

25:02

just like i dunno I guess he

25:04

does another cartoon and I'm I'm not

25:06

skills in fine motor abilities like my

25:09

handwriting looks like. Maybe a

25:11

five year olds who might turn

25:13

out to be problematic like as

25:15

such as a I horrible horrible

25:17

he had right a split I

25:19

ended up have is it's amazing

25:21

conversation with one of my good

25:23

friends there Romanov who was an

25:26

advertising it was an artistic director

25:28

and he was like as and

25:30

Legacy gives your building the same

25:32

just stay with the cartoons even

25:34

though these cartoons and six figures

25:36

with almost illegible. Kansas City.

25:39

And I was like I like i understand

25:41

branding I would zip as the city cause

25:43

I are under this continue in this path

25:45

and so basically for like the first week

25:48

or two the in town has been these.

25:50

Cartoons That eye drops. And

25:52

then I decided I'd a say points

25:54

I managers suggested that I i turned

25:56

that into a petri on but then

25:58

I thought posts by pizza. Work on

26:00

Sad Sacks and so now I've had a sub

26:02

stack for the last couple of years called emotional.

26:05

Support Lady. And each

26:07

post includes one of my super

26:09

talented cartoons of and it's wonderful

26:11

to see that like people as

26:13

kind of like gravitated towards it.

26:15

and I I think that part

26:18

of what. Really kicked

26:20

off the counts. aside from the

26:22

audience I already had from Just

26:24

Between Us was in November of

26:26

Twenty Twenty. My fiance at the

26:28

time just like abruptly left me

26:30

and it was like very shocking

26:32

and destabilizing and her effects and

26:34

I was like oh no I

26:36

started this mental health account that

26:38

I'm supposed to be posting on

26:40

every single day and I'm going

26:42

through and of the worst period

26:44

of was like it's others as

26:46

well as it's do I hide

26:48

that from them. Or do I

26:50

just really share and explore the

26:53

feelings that I'm feeling as I'm

26:55

going through. What? I'd like to

26:57

call the Great abandonment and so I decided

26:59

I I've always been honest with my fans

27:01

and mean icicle icicle couple weeks to make

27:04

sure he wasn't coming back in. I don't

27:06

want to jinx it and then when it

27:08

became clear he was gone, I was like

27:10

I might as well. And so I started

27:13

sharing that fueling. Journey while

27:15

I was in it and the amount

27:17

of people that were like had similar

27:19

stories, had partners that had just up

27:22

and flasks or just people going through

27:24

heartbreak in I think that that really

27:26

like say a sealed the beginning of

27:29

the a towel and then you could

27:31

almost go back and say like how.

27:34

That. Said took up less and less

27:36

of my mind. You know that like

27:38

so much of it was they some

27:40

laws and heartbreak and then over time

27:42

it's just became life because I had

27:44

move forward. Do you remember any of

27:46

the Dmz responses? From your

27:48

fans that you would be willing to share

27:50

with us. Ah, I don't remember

27:53

specific. The I remember being absolutely

27:55

blown away by the amount of

27:57

people who had been abruptly west.

27:59

Side. Long term partners. And

28:02

I see get the time I thought that what had

28:04

happened and he was like very unusual to have like.

28:06

No. Warning: I'm not seen that guy since the

28:08

night he broke up with me. I

28:10

had like one very brief a Sunday say

28:13

one twenty minute phone call where he told

28:15

some horrible mean things so he was his

28:17

I saw and like they would like. no

28:19

closure though. like let's work through this and

28:22

to learn that like so many other people

28:24

and had similar experiences was wild because I

28:26

you know the fact that people do that.

28:28

but I also think that like people do

28:30

that because that's the only way they can

28:33

leave is something that I understand now where

28:35

it's like they have to shut themselves off,

28:37

they have to like. almost like. Turn

28:39

into another person's so that they can

28:42

like get themselves from this relationship to

28:44

the next part of their life and

28:46

they don't understand. Like the collateral damage

28:48

of that. And. In your writing

28:51

you feel like you're processing.

28:53

So much of your lived

28:55

experience. Do Felix this assisted as you've.

28:57

Grown older to better understand

29:00

your specific diagnosis and the

29:02

different ways that you could

29:04

actually cope with. The.

29:06

Experiences that you're having. I've

29:09

actually had like it. It's a sig

29:12

journey with my relationship. Towards a Cd

29:14

and this is probably where my views

29:16

as a mental health as a kid

29:18

are likely the most controversial city of

29:21

as it's because when it comes Lcd.

29:23

The. Main line of defense is exposure

29:25

therapy, right? It's that you are not

29:28

supposed to give into your compulsions, you

29:30

are supposed to fight them at every

29:32

turn, and that you supposed to constantly

29:35

exposes us to the things that cause

29:37

you distress so that that the A

29:39

C D can't grow and instead your.

29:41

Shrinking it. And.

29:44

I kind of with time and us

29:46

acceptance of myself and with all of

29:48

the growth that I have made on

29:50

the other aspects of my life. I've

29:53

kind of come to a place where

29:55

I don't wanna spend. Every moment

29:57

of my life fighting this thing.

30:00

And so instead of this sort

30:02

of like your approach of exposure

30:04

and know reassurance from other people

30:06

and know when he begins your

30:09

temple. Since I have said I

30:11

have a real new harm reduction

30:13

approach to my Lcp. Where I'm

30:15

looking at it, I'm looking at

30:17

the way it affects my life.

30:19

I'm saying you know what? Me:

30:22

Why see my cell phone down four times a

30:24

day? Who. Is that hurting? It's

30:27

not is a very good say Rothys

30:29

his hips. It's not interfere with my

30:32

words. It means that I'm not uncomfortable

30:34

all day for no reason other than

30:36

I'm putting up a fight and so

30:38

really approaching my O C D with

30:40

a values based approach rather than an

30:43

all or nothing approach has been really

30:45

helpful for me. So it's sort of

30:47

like this: Getting into this compulsive interfere

30:49

with my values. Rate. So for

30:51

example, I had a party at my house

30:54

and it was really hot out. I didn't

30:56

think it would be that hot flight. plan

30:58

for to be an outdoor. Party but then

31:00

it was a people are gonna need to

31:02

be inside and so I was. Like well

31:04

I'll get a not make people take

31:06

their shoes off because my value here

31:08

is that my friends are comfortable and

31:10

having a good time in my home

31:12

and also rd have people coming to

31:15

clean my home tomorrow so I could

31:17

probably tolerate that one might have it

31:19

not being clean and so I will

31:21

push through the discomfort that comes from

31:23

people having souza my house because of

31:25

my Bally's vs every couple said I

31:27

have I should be fighting and no

31:30

one should ever have peace in. Which

31:33

a lot. Of a C D advocates that exercise

31:35

that a disagree with that that I've found

31:37

is I've gotten older and more sure of

31:40

myself and figured out more what I want

31:42

my day to day life. To. Look

31:44

like that's. What Works for me? I.

31:46

Think that says. That. Example you

31:48

on this kind of planned for allowing

31:51

for your oh C to kind of

31:53

align with your values in that moment

31:55

and it doesn't have to always be

31:58

that way when I get always as

32:00

want random people I mean and what

32:02

their shoes on Great faith in that

32:04

moment, the that circumstance and in way

32:07

planned for it and didn't allow for

32:09

it today penetrate and like perseverate which

32:11

is obviously some classic features that a

32:14

symphony of city so how can we

32:16

extend? I love this was them can

32:18

we had and trying to kind of

32:21

round out some of this, give advice

32:23

if you were talking to someone who's

32:25

been a the recently diagnosed with of

32:28

Cd or another mental illness. Letters

32:30

and pieces of advice he would give them for

32:32

his. Keeping exactly how the

32:34

way you phrased, still maintaining your

32:36

values and ten of keeping yourself

32:38

well from your perspective. So I

32:41

really like this approach sets as

32:43

he kind of pulled some narrative

32:45

therapy where I view my Lcds

32:47

something outside of myself and again

32:49

people are gonna disagree. Everyone has

32:52

their own relationships to their diagnosis

32:54

and disorders in the way that

32:56

they approached themselves. But for me

32:58

at Cern allies in my Lcd

33:00

and externalising my anxiety as something.

33:03

That is not Allison but instead

33:05

is something that Allison have to

33:07

deal with is super helpful because

33:09

I think especially when you get

33:11

a new diagnosis it's really important

33:13

to figure out what your opinion

33:15

about. The sassy have a diagnosis

33:18

is because it's you feel same

33:20

around that diagnosis that says get

33:22

a like be an extra weight

33:24

on top of all the symptoms

33:26

that you're dealing with and it's

33:28

just gonna make everything extra hard

33:30

way as if you can get.

33:33

to a place of acceptance where it's

33:35

like yeah like in the same way

33:37

maybe i would have diabetes or i

33:39

would have you know fibromyalgia us i

33:41

have a cd and this is this

33:43

thing that i have but it's not

33:45

me and something i need to deal

33:47

with but doesn't define me and insisting

33:49

on top of me rather than than

33:51

my truth as it becomes it's easier

33:53

thing to deal with and so i

33:56

really love just even a visual and

33:58

i can see into my car it's

34:00

me talking to my OCD, that

34:02

like this is this thing that thinks that

34:05

it's helping me, thinks that it's protecting me,

34:07

but ultimately I have to be like, hey,

34:09

actually, please leave me alone. We're

34:12

coming to the end of our time. Anything

34:14

that we didn't get to touch on or ask you

34:17

since you've been able to bring

34:20

so much of this out

34:22

for people and give them

34:24

voice in ways, relationships, love,

34:26

friendships, and all the good and

34:28

bad in between. Circling back to

34:30

relationships, I think there is a sense

34:32

often that if you're someone that has

34:34

struggled with your mental health, that

34:37

you are more difficult to love,

34:39

that you are maybe unlovable. Also,

34:43

that maybe you should take what you can get

34:45

in terms of a partner because like thank God

34:47

this person is willing to put up with me

34:49

or that type of thinking. And

34:52

so I really like to push back against

34:54

that and instead say, for those of

34:56

us who have struggled with our mental health,

34:59

we have had to do a lot

35:01

of work that other people haven't had

35:03

to do. And that

35:05

work, working on ourselves, emotional

35:07

regulation, understanding how our brain

35:10

works, empathy for ourselves and

35:12

other people, all of those

35:14

things actually end up often making

35:16

us better partners. So

35:18

instead of feeling like, oh, I got to

35:20

take what I can get, instead think of

35:23

it as like, wow, I have already done

35:25

so much work that will make me a

35:27

wonderful partner for whoever I end up

35:29

wanting to commit to. Well,

35:39

this was a great conversation. Alison Raskin is

35:41

a writer, podcast host, and mental health advocate.

35:43

She also has a new book coming out

35:46

later this year called I Do, I Think,

35:48

Conversations about Modern Marriage. So looking

35:50

forward to reading that. Alison,

35:53

thank you so much for joining us. Oh,

35:55

thank you. This was wonderful. That's

36:01

our show this week.

36:04

WellNow is produced by Zach Whitley-Berry,

36:06

Ben Richman is my Senior Director

36:08

of Podcast Operations,

36:10

Alicia Montgomery is Vice President of Audio.

36:12

We'd love to hear from you. Email

36:15

us at wellnowattheplate.com and

36:17

be sure to tune in next Wednesday as we tackle another

36:20

part of the wellness industry. I'm Maya

36:22

Feller and I'm Kavita Patel. Thank you for listening. We'll

36:32

see you next week.