0:07

Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen, the Australian

0:10

Manager of Public Affairs at Chartered Accountants

0:12

ANZ or CA ANZ.

0:14

This is Small Firm, Big Impact.

0:22

We're hearing lots of feedback

0:24

from our members about the ATO

0:26

being slow to get back to them

0:28

and to respond to client needs. We're

0:30

also hearing from members that they're

0:33

feeling a lot of tax administration

0:35

is being pushed onto them by the ATO.

0:37

They're finding it difficult to deal with

0:39

PayG instalments. They're

0:42

finding that communication from the ATO

0:44

is excessive and is not well targeted.

0:47

Unless we start lodging complaints

0:49

about slow processes with the ATO,

0:52

the issue remains below the surface.

0:57

It's the podcast giving you and your

0:59

clients the up to date information you need

1:01

to do your jobs. Each episode,

1:03

I share resources, tools, and expert advice

1:06

provided by CA ANZ and a range

1:08

of people across our profession. So make

1:10

sure you're following the pod in your favourite

1:12

pod app. And if you've got an idea for the show,

1:15

email [email protected]

1:21

Today we have Senior Tax Advocate

1:24

Susan Franks, the topic recent

1:26

member experiences with the Australian

1:28

Tax Office and its services and

1:30

what CA ANZ is

1:32

doing to help. Susan Franks, welcome

1:35

to Small Firm, Big Impact.

1:37

Oh hi Gill. It's great to be here.

1:40

So in the last week or so, one of our members

1:42

posed a few questions to us to

1:44

ask about what CA ANZ is

1:46

doing to advocate on behalf of members

1:48

regarding the ATO's recent performance

1:50

when it comes to service standards. So our

1:53

members obviously have a lot of interaction with

1:55

the ATO. Now I'll read part of

1:57

Ashley Carmichael's post. He says

1:59

I had the displeasure of following up a matter

2:01

today that remains unresolved after

2:04

six months. This, sadly, is not

2:06

a unique case. He goes on.

2:08

The ATO complaints department

2:10

advise that their service standard for resolving

2:12

complaints is now blown out to 30

2:14

business days, and that they are receiving

2:17

1100 complaints a week.

2:19

He asks about Under-resourcing

2:21

in their processing areas. He asks

2:24

what action is happening to address this issue.

2:26

Mr. Carmichael believes it's costing

2:28

CA ANZ members significant resources in

2:31

wasted time spent following up unresolved

2:33

matters and submitting complaints on behalf of clients.

2:36

And there are some important points

2:38

raised here, and I thought it was

2:40

an opportunity to discuss

2:42

what CA ANZ has been doing on this

2:44

matter and other issues that

2:46

are impacting our members right now. So that's

2:48

why I've got Susan involved. Let's

2:50

get started and pick some of this apart.

2:53

What else do you think? Or what else do

2:55

you know about the issue that Ashley

2:57

Carmichael is talking about here?

3:00

Look, what Ashley is talking about is a

3:02

very, very common complaint. We're

3:04

hearing lots of feedback from

3:07

our members about the ATO being

3:09

slow to get back to them

3:11

and to respond to client needs. What

3:14

we're hearing is the 28 day

3:16

service standard. Our members are expecting an issue

3:19

to be resolved in 28 days, and

3:21

what the ATO doing is not touching

3:23

an issue until 28 days, then

3:25

asking a further question. So the 28 day

3:27

starts again and the matter just goes

3:29

on and on and on.

3:32

We're also hearing from members

3:34

that they're feeling a lot of tax

3:37

administration is being pushed onto them by

3:39

the ATO. They're finding it difficult

3:41

to deal with instalments.

3:44

They're finding that communication from the

3:46

ATO is excessive and

3:48

is not well targeted.

3:51

So why is the ATO

3:54

doing that touch point that you were talking

3:56

about in regards to waiting

3:58

until the end of the 28 days, and then

4:00

it kind of seems to roll on or reset. Why

4:02

are they doing that?

4:04

With this issue has been raised by

4:07

chartered accountants and other industry

4:09

bodies at the Tax Practitioner Stewardship

4:12

Group numerous times. It's been

4:14

an ongoing issue for a number of years

4:17

when the issue has been raised

4:19

at the Tax Practitioner Stewardship Group meeting,

4:22

the ATO points out that

4:24

accountants are not the only people trying

4:26

to recruit staff so

4:28

that they can service taxpayers

4:30

well. The ATO is also experiencing

4:33

that issue as well.

4:35

So it looks as though then

4:37

the issue isn't going to be solved

4:39

quickly. It's hard to recruit people, as

4:42

we would know then. So what is it that

4:44

is going to be the next steps here?

4:46

Then? What is it that our members can do

4:49

to try and alleviate the stress

4:51

on their end?

4:53

Well, we've actually been talking to the ATO

4:55

about this, and unfortunately,

4:59

getting greater staff into those areas

5:01

is not the answer at the moment.

5:04

And what the ATO is looking

5:06

at is actually putting

5:08

more of the services

5:10

through tax agents, online

5:13

services. So they're trying to put more

5:15

and more into

5:17

that product so tax agents can

5:19

self service more. When

5:22

we went and spoke to the Inspector General of Taxation

5:24

about these issues, she actually

5:27

suggested that we use the complaint

5:29

line on the basis that what

5:31

gets measured gets actioned.

5:34

And what we've found is members that

5:36

have had issues about the 28

5:39

day service period, when they've lodged

5:41

a complaint with the complaint

5:43

line, they've actually had their issues resolved

5:45

fairly quickly.

5:47

Let's then talk more in depth about that complaints

5:50

process, because it appears to be the way

5:52

to go to get some more action

5:54

done quicker. How does it work?

5:58

Well, there are several ways that our members can lodge

6:00

a complaint. If,

6:02

assuming that most of them are tax agents,

6:05

what you can do is submit your complaint using

6:07

the Tax Practitioner Complaints online

6:09

form through online services for agents.

6:12

And you do that by going to reports

6:14

and forms, selecting forms,

6:16

and then selecting the tax practitioner

6:18

complaint. You can also

6:21

phone the ATO using

6:24

the 1800 199 010 number.

6:27

Monday to Friday. Or

6:29

you could write to the ATO. But

6:31

it's important when you're actually

6:34

expressing your concern that

6:36

you write the outcome that you want

6:39

and provide details that they can action

6:41

it.

6:42

And can you do this after

6:44

like is there a time period you have to wait before you're

6:46

allowed to lodge a complaint?

6:48

Well, you. Usually have to wait till

6:51

at least 28 days so that they can actually

6:53

have a chance to progress

6:55

things. And it is preferred

6:57

that you actually try to resolve

7:00

it directly with the person you're

7:02

dealing with as soon as you

7:04

possibly can. But

7:06

that can sometimes be difficult

7:08

because the ATO won't necessarily

7:10

answer the phone until the 28 day period

7:13

has finished. And

7:15

that is particularly problematic

7:18

if you're trying to negotiate a payment plan

7:20

with the ATO and get finance for you and your

7:23

client at the same time.

7:25

So there'll be members listening along, who'll

7:27

be like, this is ridiculous. We're busy.

7:29

And then the only way to get action is to

7:31

lodge a complaint. Is there any

7:34

light at the end of the tunnel, any sort of solution

7:36

in the in the short term to

7:39

help with this additional admin that they will

7:41

then need to start doing.

7:44

Why do it? Because what

7:46

gets measured gets actions. So

7:48

unless we start lodging complaints

7:50

about slow processes with the ATO,

7:53

the issue remains below the surface

7:55

and and festering. If

7:58

we need to get the Inspector General of

8:00

Taxation to look at an issue, she needs

8:02

data to make decisions and to make recommendations.

8:05

And we also need data for the ...,

8:08

for the ATO to be

8:10

seen to be failing some KPIs.

8:13

So lodge your complaint. Get

8:15

that data there so real action can

8:17

be taken going forward.

8:19

Okay. So what resources do we have

8:22

out there to help with all of this.

8:26

Well, we've been working continuously

8:29

with the raising members

8:31

issues with them. So every

8:33

time people write to us to [email protected]

8:40

or contacts the member helpline,

8:42

and we get a Salesforce query coming

8:44

through. We contact the member

8:47

and talk to them and

8:49

put them in touch with the appropriate people

8:51

to resolve their issues. And

8:53

quite often when we're getting those type of complaints

8:56

through from members, there's a systemic

8:58

issue which we then work with the ATO

9:01

to try and resolve. We've

9:03

also been hearing a lot

9:05

of complaints about online services

9:07

for agents, and it's continuously developing

9:10

and changing. So what we've

9:13

got the ATO to agree

9:15

to is to present

9:17

a sharing knowledge session twice a year,

9:19

just on updates in relation to

9:22

online services for agents, and particularly

9:25

the deferred lodgement process,

9:27

to try and help our members understand

9:30

how the ATO approaches this,

9:32

these matters, so that they can align

9:35

their systems more efficiently and effectively

9:37

within their practices as well.

9:40

Have those two sessions for this year already

9:42

been held or is there something coming up soon?

9:45

We've had two sessions this

9:47

year and they've been very well attended

9:50

and been very practical.

9:52

Our members have been very engaged in

9:55

those sharing knowledge sessions, which is fantastic

9:57

because what we've been able to do with that

9:59

data and the questions that our members

10:02

have asked is de-identify

10:04

it, group it together and

10:06

put that back to the ATO saying, look,

10:08

these are the pain points. These are the issues

10:10

that our members want to get resolved so

10:12

they can then work on it. And then they

10:15

know that in six months time, they're going to be presenting

10:18

to these same people and they're going to need to do an

10:20

update for them. So that's

10:22

the process we've been doing behind the scenes

10:24

to try and get the ATO to action.

10:27

Some of the pain points that our members are going.

10:29

Through and have they been actioning

10:31

them?

10:33

We have. We've had members

10:35

on deferred lodgement working groups.

10:38

We've had we've got two current

10:40

members on the vision for

10:43

tax agents in 2030, and

10:45

they are taking their comments

10:48

on board and designing

10:51

systems around what our members are actually

10:53

telling the ATO in the discussions

10:55

about getting lodgement processes better

10:58

and the vision for 2030.

11:00

So what I will do, is I'll get the links to those

11:02

two recent sharing knowledge sessions

11:05

and put them in the show notes so they're easy for people

11:07

to find. And on that page as well,

11:09

I'm sure there will be alerts about the upcoming

11:11

sessions that you'll be able to register

11:14

for next year, so that you can get all the information

11:16

that you need there and continue that conversation,

11:18

that process, that pipeline of information

11:21

between our members and

11:23

the ATO, because it sounds like it's very important

11:25

for getting through some of those

11:27

issues and sorting out solutions.

11:29

Look, we're almost out of time.

11:31

Is there anything else that CA ANZ is advocating

11:33

on that would be worth our members knowing about?

11:37

It's actually worth our members knowing about

11:39

that, we often use tax news to

11:41

give links to upcoming sharing knowledge

11:43

sessions, which are very relevant and very practical

11:45

for our members, and also

11:48

to use. Call us.

11:50

Call the member service line. Call it.

11:52

Write to us via [email protected] so

11:56

that your concerns can be addressed and

11:58

you are heard. In

12:01

relation to what we're actually going to be

12:04

talking about next

12:06

year. We're sitting

12:08

down and talking to the ATO all the time.

12:11

So every time that a member

12:13

writes to us, we're

12:15

sitting down and discussing that with the ATO.

12:18

So we've been having monthly meetings with

12:20

the ATO about debt collection, because

12:22

there's got $100 billion of tax to

12:24

collect. They're writing letters

12:26

to, you know, 20,000 people

12:28

at a time. So we've got monthly meetings

12:31

with them to discuss

12:33

issues that our members are facing. For

12:35

example, getting SMS messages

12:37

within two days of a debt being late,

12:39

the ability to see pay notices

12:42

or inability rather to see pay

12:44

notices. Members

12:46

getting daily calls about a tax

12:48

debt. Now with that one, the ATO

12:51

resolved that fairly quickly

12:53

and they needed to because it was escalating substantially.

12:57

But the ATO's also gone back and changed

12:59

the education of their people about how

13:01

they actually document these calls. We've

13:03

also been talking about the

13:06

to the ATO, about how they actually write their

13:08

letters, making sure that they don't

13:10

have out to date of information, or sending

13:12

out letters with no date on them, so that there's

13:14

less work for our clients. And

13:17

they've now got a working

13:19

group that just reviews some

13:21

of the standard letters before they go out.

13:23

So there is a lot on and there's

13:25

a lot that we're doing, and there's a lot of avenues

13:28

that we're talking to the ATO about.

13:30

So please keep

13:32

on writing to us and letting us know

13:35

what your concerns are so that your views

13:37

can be represented to the ATO.

13:39

Mhm. Mhm. It's a very good point. And on that

13:42

if you want to find out more I will

13:44

put a link to all the bits and pieces that Susan

13:46

has mentioned in the show notes, so that

13:48

you can easily find them. And they'll

13:50

also be on the show's podcast page on the CA ANZ

13:53

website. I'll put a link to that as well, and I'll include

13:55

all those contacts that Susan talked about,

13:57

because that's important for the members to keep

13:59

up their communication with, and

14:01

said so that we can then send on

14:03

that information and advocate on your behalf.

14:06

Follow the podcast as well. Search

14:08

Small Firm, Big Impact in your podcast

14:11

app right now and follow.

14:13

And the podcast has an email, so feel free to

14:15

get in touch. [email protected].

14:18

Let's start a conversation.

14:20

Thank you to Ashley Carmichael

14:23

for putting that post on social media

14:25

and letting us have a discussion about

14:27

all things ATO and member

14:29

services. And thank you to Susan Franks,

14:31

our Senior Tax Advocate, for being our expert

14:33

on Small Firm, Big Impact.

14:35

You're welcome. Thank you for the opportunity, Gill.

14:38

Bye bye.