0:01

Hey, Super Podcast fans. It's

0:03

Yardley. I just wanted to pop in

0:05

with a quick announcement about Small Town

0:07

Dicks Season 12. It drops on

0:10

April 21st. April 21st! Mark

0:12

your calendars. We will see

0:14

you there.

0:22

Hey, Small Town fan. It's Yardley.

0:24

How are you guys? Welcome to

0:26

a brand new episode of your favorite podcast.

0:30

We are so happy that you're here. So,

0:32

if you've been following along this season, you

0:35

will remember that we started

0:37

out with a case from our own Detective

0:39

Dan. The

0:40

second episode of the

0:42

season was a case from our own Detective

0:45

Dave. And so it seems only

0:47

fitting that the third case should come

0:49

from the one and only Paul Holes.

0:53

This case sticks with Paul for

0:55

the brutality of the murders that were

0:57

committed. Not to mention the

0:59

lust for power by the ringleader of this

1:01

band of suspects. And

1:04

the oldest motive in the book. Greed.

1:07

So Paul was a crime scene analyst

1:10

at the time of this homicide. And he's

1:12

tasked with putting together the gruesome

1:14

details of this crime. So law

1:16

enforcement can build a case and

1:19

justice can be served.

1:20

As so often happens in the crimes we cover

1:23

on this podcast, even when I find

1:25

out why someone has committed murder, I'm

1:28

left with more questions than

1:30

their motive alone ever answers. This is one

1:32

of those cases. Here

1:35

is Follow the Leader.

1:42

Hi there. I'm Yardley. I'm

1:44

Dan. I'm Dave. And I'm Paul.

1:47

And this is Small Town Dicks. Dave

1:50

and I are identical twins and retired detectives

1:52

from Small Town, USA. And I'm

1:54

a veteran cold case investigator who helped catch

1:56

the Golden State Killer using a revolutionary DNA tool.

1:59

Between the three of us, we've investigated

2:02

thousands of crimes, from petty theft to

2:04

sexual assault, child abuse to

2:06

murder. Each case we cover is told

2:08

by the detective who investigated it, offering

2:11

a rare, personal account of how they solved

2:13

the crime. Names, places, and certain

2:15

details have been changed to protect the privacy of

2:17

victims and their families. And although we're

2:19

aware that some of our listeners may be familiar

2:21

with these cases, we ask you to please join

2:24

us in continuing to protect the true identities

2:26

of those involved out of respect for what they've

2:28

been through.

2:29

Thank you. Today

2:39

on Small Town Decks, we have,

2:42

guess what? The usual suspects. We

2:44

have Detective Dave.

2:45

Good afternoon, Yardley. Good afternoon,

2:47

Darren. So happy to see you. That was

2:50

very officious. And

2:52

we have Detective Dan. Hello, team. Hello,

2:55

you. And we have the

2:57

one and only Paul Holes.

2:58

Hey, everybody. Hey, hey. Hey, hey.

3:00

So today, our case

3:03

comes from PH, as

3:05

I like to call him. So Paul, tell

3:07

us how this case came to you. I

3:10

was sitting in my

3:12

lab space back in August of 2000, and

3:15

my boss comes in. And she's

3:18

like, you need to get out to Concord now. This

3:21

is Concord, California, because I know of a Concord,

3:23

Massachusetts. This is Concord, California,

3:25

in Contra Costa County. The

3:28

story that I got when she

3:30

initially assigned me was

3:32

two of our very

3:34

senior prosecutors had

3:36

been called out to

3:38

a crime scene inside a house in

3:41

Concord.

3:42

And they had walked into the crime scene

3:45

and did not like what they were seeing

3:48

being done by the assigned

3:50

CSIs there and basically

3:53

told the crew stop.

3:55

And so I'm now being pulled out

3:58

to try to.

3:59

rehabilitate that

4:02

aspect of this case. The

4:05

reason these prosecutors were at

4:07

this house is that the

4:09

crime scene was actually bundled up

4:11

by the lead CSI

4:14

handling the processing and put in the back

4:16

of U-Haul and literally was being

4:19

taken back to the other agency

4:22

without it having been properly documented.

4:24

Like not swabbed, not anything. They

4:26

just sort of gathered it up in a tarp, so

4:29

to speak, and put it in the back of a U-Haul.

4:30

Yes. I walk

4:33

in and they're telling me, okay,

4:36

we believe that possibly

4:38

three people had been killed inside this house.

4:41

An elderly couple, Ivan and Annette

4:43

Steinman, as well as

4:45

a younger woman, Selina Bishop, were

4:48

thought to have been killed in this house.

4:51

And I'm looking at

4:53

a house that has been stripped down

4:56

and it was just a subfloor. The carpeting had been removed,

4:58

furniture was gone out of the living room. I'm

5:01

going,

5:02

oh no, this isn't looking good.

5:05

So I tell these prosecutors,

5:07

I say, if you keep me on based on

5:09

what I saw out there at the crime scene, I'm

5:11

going to turn into a defense witness because

5:14

they're going to put me on the stand and I'm basically

5:16

going to say, this is not how you

5:18

process a crime scene.

5:20

They did debate it, but they go, nope, you know

5:22

what? From this point on, we want

5:24

things done right. Who

5:27

makes the initial call for law enforcement

5:29

to come to this house in the first place? Well,

5:33

the backstory up to this

5:35

point, Ivan and Annette

5:37

Steinman had been

5:39

reported missing by the family and had

5:42

been missing for a few days. So

5:44

Concord PD was investigating a

5:47

missing persons case.

5:48

Meanwhile, Marin Sheriff's

5:51

office had a double homicide

5:53

in their jurisdiction. A woman and her boyfriend

5:55

were found shot in the woman's

5:58

bedroom.

5:59

So Marin and is working their

6:01

double homicide, Concord

6:03

is working a missing persons case, and they independently

6:08

converge on this house in Concord. How

6:10

far away are Concord and Marin? Driving

6:13

time without traffic an

6:16

hour, but it does require going

6:19

over a bridge. Marin

6:21

County is the county north

6:23

of San Francisco, so that's what connects,

6:26

the Golden Gate Bridge is what connects Marin to

6:28

San Francisco. And then there's a

6:30

bridge that connects Marin

6:32

over to Contra Costa

6:34

County. Okay. So

6:37

as this case starts unfolding, up

6:40

in Sacramento County, we

6:42

have the Sacramento River that

6:45

flows down into this Delta

6:47

region before it flows out into

6:49

the San Francisco Bay. So

6:53

Contra Costa County has part of the Sacramento

6:55

River Delta, as does Sacramento.

6:57

And up in the Sacramento jurisdiction,

7:00

duffel bags start floating to the surface

7:03

with human remains in them. And

7:05

there are multiple duffel bags. We

7:08

have a criminalist that goes up to Sacramento

7:11

to take a look at these remains,

7:13

because it turns out

7:15

very quickly, they're able to identify

7:18

Ivan and Annette Steiman as

7:20

being two of the three victims. And

7:23

then the other victim, which was

7:25

a younger female, she

7:28

was identified as Selena Bishop. So

7:30

you have three bodies

7:32

that have been dismembered, and their remains

7:35

co-mingled across eight

7:37

to 10 duffel bags. That's horrifying.

7:40

Paul, how long between the

7:43

time when you are called to this crime scene

7:45

that hasn't been processed properly, how

7:48

long between that and the body

7:51

floating to the top of the Delta?

7:54

Same day. Oh my God. Everything

7:57

was happening all at once. So.

8:00

Concord PD investigators realize

8:02

that Glenn Halser has a

8:04

possible connection to the

8:06

Steinman's going missing and Serve

8:09

a search warrant

8:10

and is this house where

8:12

they scooped up the crime scene this house

8:14

belongs to Glenn Halser

8:16

Glenn Halser and his brother Justin

8:19

were living at this house got it Glenn

8:22

Halser was the Steinman's

8:25

stockbroker. Oh Oh That's

8:28

not what I thought you were gonna say So

8:32

Glenn Halser was a legit stockbroker

8:34

right? I don't know how good he was but

8:36

he was licensed or whatever you need to be Yeah,

8:39

okay Marin County

8:43

They're double homicide with the woman and boyfriend

8:45

who were shot. They also

8:48

focus on Glenn Halser as

8:51

he was the boyfriend

8:53

of The woman's

8:56

daughter Selena Bishop

9:00

and Selena Bishop is the third homicide

9:02

victim That Halser murdered

9:04

along with the Steinman's that is correct

9:07

So two agencies independently

9:09

investigating two very different cases or

9:11

so thought were two different cases So

9:14

now you have two search warrants and literally

9:16

these agencies are walking up

9:18

to the front door going why you here? So

9:23

Obviously a huge case they say we've

9:26

got three bodies killed inside this house

9:28

and we think it's related to the double

9:30

homicide That's up in Marin County. So

9:32

five people killed.

9:34

So this house now becomes a very

9:37

sinister dark place This

9:41

house is ground to zero

9:50

You

10:01

I'm working now on processing this house.

10:04

How do you do that if they swept all the evidence

10:06

away in a U-Haul? What's left for you? I

10:09

sprayed this entire house with luminol,

10:11

looking for latent blood

10:13

stains, because there's no visible blood

10:15

with what had been left inside the house. I

10:18

had them bring the carpeting that they had ripped

10:20

up and rolled up and put in the back of the U-Haul.

10:23

I luminol the whole house,

10:25

and there was a small amount of spatter

10:28

that was found on

10:31

the family room wall. By spatter,

10:34

it was just maybe 10 very

10:37

tiny blood drops, but

10:39

the way they were distributed, it was obvious

10:41

it was from a single event. It's

10:44

not like 10 different little

10:46

drops of blood from 10 different, let's say, blows.

10:49

This was literally from possibly one blow,

10:52

and it just kind of

10:53

settled on the wall. But that was the extent of the amount

10:55

of blood spatter that was found inside

10:57

the scene. I'm looking for

11:00

proof that three bodies

11:02

had been killed and dismembered

11:04

inside this house, because that's very

11:07

important to establish. I'm

11:08

not finding that evidence, but

11:10

we get to a point where we dig

11:13

up the sewer pipes from the house. So

11:16

we have a backhoe come in and dig up the sewer

11:18

pipes, and I'm now looking

11:20

through the sewer pipes for body

11:22

parts, pieces of tissue, anything

11:25

to suggest that parts

11:28

of these victims had been washed

11:31

down through the drains. I

11:33

ultimately rinsed these sewer pipes. I

11:35

put water through them, and I had

11:38

this screen material that I

11:40

would catch any of the rinsing on and then just

11:42

put that

11:42

into the mason jar, and the smell

11:45

was horrid. As you could

11:47

imagine, any sewer pipe would be, right? Sure.

11:50

Did you ever find any bits and pieces

11:52

of people in the pipe? No. You

11:55

have a disgusting job, Paul Holes. Of

11:57

course, people like me... always

12:00

want to know why human beings do

12:02

these horrible things to other human beings.

12:05

So as you're putting this case together, I have

12:08

to ask, did you ever find out what

12:11

Glenn Helzer's motive was?

12:14

Turns out, Glenn Helzer,

12:16

he had a vision

12:19

to have his

12:21

own cult, in essence, called

12:23

the Children of Thunder. Glenn

12:26

Helzer was born and raised Mormon,

12:29

no longer practicing, but really

12:32

wanted to overthrow the Mormon

12:34

church with his own religious

12:37

philosophy, his own group.

12:39

But he needed to be able to finance

12:42

this. So he developed

12:44

a scheme in which he knew

12:47

his

12:47

clients, the Steinmans, he

12:50

had their bank account information, he

12:52

knew exactly how much money they had,

12:55

and he thought that that would be a way to start

12:58

this

12:59

cult. When you mentioned this case

13:01

a few days ago, I was on the plane actually researching

13:04

this. In reading up

13:06

on this case, you learn that Glenn

13:09

was excommunicated from

13:11

the Mormon church due to drug

13:13

use. And his idea

13:15

is, I'm the new prophet, I can run

13:17

this organization better, basically, and

13:20

I'm going to start my own cult called

13:22

the Children of Thunder.

13:24

Right. So Glenn

13:26

Helzer concocts this scheme

13:28

with his brother Justin, and

13:31

with Justin's girlfriend Dawn. Glenn,

13:34

Justin, and Dawn have a scheme to

13:36

abduct the Steinmans. Glenn

13:39

starts a relationship with Selena

13:42

Bishop, and has her open

13:44

an account in her name. So

13:46

the intent was they were going to rob

13:49

the Steinmans and put that money in Selena's bank account.

13:52

And then that would be obviously transferred

13:54

somewhere else. But in essence, trying to launder

13:57

the money. There's not enough.

14:00

separation there between Selena

14:02

creating this bank account and

14:05

the Steinmans and the Helzer brothers. Right.

14:08

It's a very poorly concocted

14:11

way to do it. They thought

14:13

they were criminal masterminds. They

14:16

just knew enough to be dangerous. Once

14:19

they abduct the Steinmans,

14:21

they do bring them back to

14:24

the house. And who's in

14:26

on this abduction? It's Glenn, Justin,

14:28

and Don. And Don, yeah. They're all partaking.

14:31

And I don't know who physically grabbed

14:34

them, but they're all involved

14:36

in this, are all complicit in

14:38

the homicides. So

14:41

the Steinmans are kept alive for a period of time.

14:43

In fact, they tried to kill them using drugs

14:46

and that didn't work.

14:48

What sort of drugs are they using on the Steinmans

14:50

to try to kill them first? Elicit drugs like

14:52

heroin? It was Rohipnol.

14:54

Yep, that's right. And it was Rohipnol. Is that

14:56

the date rape drug? That is, but

14:59

it didn't work. Would it ever work? Oh,

15:02

sure. Most certainly can overdose on

15:04

Rohipnol. The Steinmans were unconscious

15:06

for a period of time. When they were given

15:08

the Rohipnol? Yeah, but then they

15:10

woke up, they were very ill. One

15:13

of them was vomiting as a result. And

15:15

then that's when they had to turn to the bludgeoning

15:17

in order to kill them. So

15:20

they bludgeoned all three, but they also

15:22

cut Annette's throat after she

15:24

woke up after being hit in the head. God.

15:28

Also, Glenn, Justin,

15:30

and Don bought three Rottweiler

15:32

dogs, these big dogs. And their

15:35

original plan was to feed the

15:37

body parts to these dogs.

15:39

Oh, my. So they ultimately

15:42

bludgeoned them, then cut

15:44

them up, cut the bodies up using

15:47

power tools. And

15:49

Selena, she was just

15:52

being used to set up this account. So once she was

15:54

no longer needed, she

15:56

is killed inside this house.

15:59

house and that tiny bit of spatter

16:02

I talked about on that wall, that was

16:04

her blood that was found. So

16:06

that was from one of the blows that had been used

16:08

to kill her. And so now you have

16:11

three bodies

16:12

that have been killed in this house. They're

16:14

being dismembered with power tools. So you'd think

16:17

there would be a ton of

16:19

blood that is being spattered

16:21

and sprayed as a result of these

16:23

tools being used.

16:25

But I'm not finding that. And

16:28

didn't learn until later that in

16:30

their bathroom, Glenn and

16:32

Justin and Don, they basically

16:34

put plastic everywhere inside

16:37

the bathroom. Like Dexter. Right.

16:41

And then that's where the dismemberment occurred. They

16:43

went and bought these duffel bags, scrambled

16:46

the body parts up to further confuse

16:49

when they're found. Well, hold on, you know,

16:52

who are these people? But they weren't expecting these duffel

16:54

bags to be found. They

16:57

remove the upper

16:59

and lower jaws from each of the victims

17:02

and crunch up the teeth,

17:05

thinking okay, we're going to prevent identification.

17:08

But then they also put the teeth in with the rest

17:10

of the body. Right? So now

17:12

it's no, that's not how you do it, right? You

17:15

kind of don't want the teeth found with the body if you're

17:17

trying to prevent identification.

17:19

How mangled are the jaws and

17:21

teeth that Glenn, Justin and Don

17:23

smash up from the Steinman's from Selena.

17:26

Yes, they put them back in the duffel bags, but if

17:28

they're dust, I would think they

17:30

weren't that, you still couldn't use

17:32

them to identify them by dental

17:34

records. No, this wasn't an

17:37

act of where they're crushing the teeth. This was

17:39

an act of removing the jaws.

17:42

The teeth are left in the jaws and then the jaws

17:44

are broken up. Some

17:46

of the victims jaws were more broken than others.

17:49

But in essence, this was very

17:51

easy for an odontologist

17:54

to take a look if we had to go down that route

17:56

in order to identify whose teeth they were.

17:58

Right, you could still fit. those broken

18:00

pieces together like a puzzle. Yes. The

18:03

purpose to do this is

18:05

to prevent identification.

18:08

But then they put the jaws back in the duffel

18:10

bags

18:11

that float up with the body parts. So,

18:13

you know, they thought just enough,

18:16

but then it carried it out right.

18:19

Right. They, boy, not the brightest pennies

18:21

in the role. Yeah. So

18:24

they use pavers,

18:26

walking pavers from around the house and

18:28

other rocks from around the house to weigh

18:30

each of the duffel bags. So here you start

18:33

taking a look at how do I associate

18:35

these duffel bags with the house? Well, now they're just

18:37

adding more evidence that

18:40

just kind of piles on. It's

18:42

just start stacking up in terms of, it's obvious

18:44

where these came from. Once you see the paver

18:47

out of the duffel bag matches this paved

18:49

path in the backyard. And

18:52

then they use a knife and they stab these

18:54

duffel bags

18:54

to prevent the gases from building

18:57

up. So you think, okay, they're thinking pretty good.

19:00

They rent jet skis in their own name,

19:03

tow the jet skis up to Sacramento

19:06

County, Delta area, take the jet

19:08

skis out with the duffel bags and start just scattering

19:10

the duffel bags over a course of a

19:12

fairly large distance.

19:13

How deep is that river? I believe

19:16

the Sacramento River is typically going

19:18

to be anywhere from, you know, 10 to 20 feet. So

19:21

not that deep if you're trying to dispose of a body.

19:23

Right. But with everything they

19:25

tried to do to get rid

19:28

of these bodies, they still

19:30

floated. Once the Steinmans and

19:32

Salinas bodies were found in the duffel bags,

19:35

now light bulbs are going off both

19:37

in Marin County and in Contra Costa

19:39

County. Oh, you know, we've

19:42

got this massive thing going on with the Helzer

19:44

brothers.

19:45

So, yeah.

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with different sub themes and cases to

22:53

solve. Case, the sabotage

22:55

of Candy Town. Chaos has

22:57

arrived in Candy Town. Someone has

22:59

been drawing graffiti, destroying furniture,

23:02

and generally causing mayhem. Who

23:04

is the saboteur and what are their intentions?

23:06

Help Kimmy find out what is going on.

23:09

There will be daily clues to unlock all week,

23:11

live now until the end of May. Download

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23:19

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23:21

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level 37 to unlock Detective

23:25

Season. It's fun and it only took

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me about 10 minutes to level up. That's

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Candy Crush Soda.

23:37

So I've done my job at the house.

23:42

So

23:45

I'm now floating around. I

23:48

actually went up with the head of Concord

23:50

CSI at the time and went

23:52

around with SAC Sheriff's Marine

23:54

Patrol to help document the

23:57

locations of where the duffel bags came up.

23:59

and looking for

24:02

other evidence that might be associated with

24:04

the homicide. So the

24:07

scene out in the waterways where the duffel bags

24:09

had gone, that was done. Then we

24:11

get a report of human remains being

24:13

found near

24:15

the Hellser house. So now

24:17

I'm going back. I don't know. Do

24:19

we have another victim that we don't know about?

24:22

And we get out to this location that's

24:24

a few blocks away from where the

24:26

murders had happened. So a few

24:28

blocks away from Glenn Hellser's house

24:31

where Stymond and Selena were killed.

24:34

Correct. And I'm talking

24:36

to the lead dog handler.

24:39

He's got decomp dogs that he's run, and

24:42

they had hit on the spot. The dog

24:44

handler is handing me what he thought is

24:46

a human skull. And I'm looking

24:48

at it, and I'm like, this doesn't

24:51

look right. It's in bad shape. There's

24:53

a lot of, like, decomposing tissue on

24:55

it. So we start digging. And

24:58

plastic bags are found where the dog hit. And

25:01

so now, getting, uh-oh, what

25:03

do we have here? I had an assistant

25:06

with me, a junior criminalist

25:08

with me. And I was like, that's your job. You're

25:11

the one who's going to be doing this, right? Opening those bags.

25:13

Yep, it's the rookie job. That's yours.

25:16

And at one point, he's dry heaving. It smells

25:19

so bad.

25:20

The dog handler had been telling me, my dogs will only

25:22

hit. They're trained on human

25:25

decomp, not on anything else. So I'm

25:27

confident

25:28

this is human. And no, we

25:31

get the bag open enough. And

25:33

the remains are from a very,

25:36

very large fish.

25:37

Really? I

25:40

have so many questions. The

25:42

first one is, how does

25:45

a cadaver dog mistake a dead

25:47

fish for a dead human? And

25:50

also, visually, how do you think that

25:52

even a badly decomposed

25:55

fish head resembles

25:57

a human skull because the guy with the cadaver

25:59

dog

25:59

handed you this mucky,

26:02

gooey, massive yuck

26:04

and said, I think it's a human skull. How

26:06

do you... how?

26:09

I don't know. How

26:11

weird that you would put a fish in

26:13

a bag and then bury that. Yeah.

26:16

It's just a fisherman who

26:18

caught a big fish and decided, well, I'm gonna get

26:21

rid of these. You know, there may

26:23

have been an issue with licensing. Just

26:26

didn't want this fish to be found out and

26:28

just dumped it.

26:30

The type of fish, red herring? Oh

26:33

boy. Sorry. I'm done.

26:35

Good God. So this

26:38

is how this is

26:40

gonna go, right? Yeah, welcome to the

26:42

team. I

26:45

had the shot, there was no danger, so

26:47

I took it.

26:48

The fish is not

26:50

buried on Helser's property, just

26:53

nearby. Right, doing due

26:55

diligence. They were running dogs and

26:57

ran across this fish. And so now time

27:00

and effort was needed

27:02

in order to determine is this something that we have

27:04

to pay attention to or not?

27:06

So satisfied that the fish is

27:08

unrelated to the case. I'm back

27:11

at the house, the scene, and

27:13

there's still some processing that I

27:15

wasn't directly involved with going

27:18

on, but I get a call from the other

27:20

sheriff's office commander. And he's

27:22

saying, I hear you have a problem with

27:24

my guy that's out there.

27:26

Oh, his crime scene investigator?

27:28

Yeah, and this commander, he's

27:30

not happy with me because I of

27:33

course was saying to my agency's

27:35

prosecutors, there's issues with

27:37

the way the scene is being handled. Well,

27:40

they talked to the sheriff's office and

27:43

I

27:43

would never, I became a division commander

27:46

with my sheriff's office. I would never

27:48

call a subordinate to another

27:50

agency directly and give

27:53

them a verbal lashing about whatever that person.

27:56

There's a chain of command. You talk to

27:58

your equivalent rank and the other.

27:59

their department. I was pretty established,

28:02

my carer. This is in 2000. So I'd been on the job

28:04

for 10 years, but I'm just line

28:06

staff. You know, so when a commander calls

28:08

you, that's the old shit.

28:10

And he says, well, I just think it's a difference in style,

28:13

but it's not a difference in style. There are

28:15

right ways and wrong ways. And you don't

28:18

package up a crime scene and put it in the back of a

28:20

U-Haul.

28:21

Even I know that. This U-Haul,

28:24

they just rent it that day. Does it belong to

28:26

the sheriff's office? Is it decontaminated

28:29

in between cases? All

28:31

these controls that you have to build in that

28:33

makes this a defensible crime

28:36

scene investigation once it goes to trial.

28:38

Right. And all the furniture

28:40

out of this living room was collected. A

28:42

sofa, chair.

28:45

So the sofa and the chair from the

28:47

murder house is collected. Correct.

28:50

Fortunately, Concord was able to get

28:53

all of that furniture over to their property

28:55

room. And then after the fact, I went out and

28:57

I did full screening on all these items

29:00

just to see was there anything that I could find

29:02

to

29:03

support the acts of violence

29:05

occurring inside that house. And there was nothing

29:07

found there. So I could at least check

29:09

that box, but it's not the way to do it.

29:11

You need to be processing this evidence. Ideally,

29:14

the way it was left when the offender

29:16

left that location.

29:18

So really almost all of the

29:20

violence occurs in this bathroom that's already

29:22

been prepared with plastic

29:25

tarps to control that

29:27

environment. Right. They took

29:29

time to try to dispose of these bodies.

29:32

They think that they're going to get away with

29:35

this scheme and get this cult

29:37

going. And

29:40

how do they get the

29:42

money from the Steinmans? Do they get the Steinmans

29:44

to sign over their funds? He

29:47

made them write checks. And so they wrote

29:49

checks, signed the checks. How

29:52

much money were they after here? They

29:54

got a hundred thousand dollars. And I think

29:56

that was across two checks. Checks like

29:58

that trigger. actions

30:01

from the bank and the IRS though. Absolutely.

30:05

And after killing

30:07

the Steinmans and Selena,

30:10

Glenn, Justin, and Don,

30:12

they go up to a bank. Don

30:16

puts on a costume and she's in a wheelchair

30:19

and is rolling up to the teller in order

30:21

to be able to do this deposit of

30:23

the Steinmans' money. So

30:26

again, they are making themselves stick

30:29

out. The teller goes, I remember

30:31

this was so weird. So we got video

30:34

surveillance from the bank and were able to find

30:36

the exact moment in which Don comes rolling

30:39

in to deposit the money. So

30:41

the case is just stacking up

30:43

and back in the lab, these

30:46

three victims, the Steinmans and

30:49

Selena's jaws have

30:51

been removed from the skull. And it was like, how

30:53

did they do that? And the way

30:55

it looked, it almost looked like explosives

30:58

had been placed inside the mouth and

31:00

blown off the lower part of the faces.

31:02

Oh my God, because they were so badly damaged.

31:05

Yes. So now I

31:07

get their skulls. An

31:10

anthropologist had cleaned the tissue

31:12

off and I'm now dealing with each of

31:14

these victims' heads in essence

31:16

and reconstructing the lower jaws

31:19

trying to figure out what they did. And

31:21

I did find some tool marks that looked like they took

31:23

the equivalent of a hammer and screwdriver

31:26

and

31:27

they're cutting through the soft tissue with a

31:29

knife and then they're literally using a hammer

31:31

and screwdriver or a chisel to try to break

31:34

the jaws up all to try

31:36

to prevent identification. But then

31:38

they put it in the duffel bags with the other body

31:40

parts.

31:41

I mean, it's like putting an ID tag

31:44

in with the item you're trying to

31:46

conceal. Yes. And

31:48

in these duffel bags that are found, the

31:51

limbs are separated from the body in areas

31:53

that you would expect limbs to be separated from the

31:55

body. Shoulders, hips,

31:58

etc. Generally, yes. The

32:00

way the bodies are dismembered is, in essence,

32:04

the easy way to do it. You know,

32:06

and this is not a case where

32:08

somebody who's looking at these dismembered

32:11

remains would go, this person must be a medical

32:13

person, you know, or surgeon, no, there's

32:16

no skill here at all. Okay.

32:19

Did you ever end up figuring out what Glenn's

32:21

motive was for the double homicide he

32:23

committed in Marin County? The

32:26

double homicide turns out

32:28

that Glenn Helzer, realized

32:31

that Selena's mom had

32:33

seen him and decided, I

32:35

also need to eliminate the mom

32:37

as a witness. Oh God. So

32:40

he goes up with a gun to Marin,

32:42

middle of the night, and goes inside

32:44

mom's house and mom's boyfriend just

32:46

happened to be there. So he kills both of them.

32:49

And the mother's only mistake is that

32:52

she met Glenn

32:55

one time. Basically, yes. And

32:57

her boyfriend just happened to be over. The intent wasn't

33:00

to kill him. I don't think he ever was a witness.

33:02

He just happened to be at the house at the

33:04

time Glenn came in.

33:06

So that's where now you

33:08

have that double homicide, you have

33:10

this horrific triple homicide

33:12

with dismembered bodies, all

33:15

to get money to start a cult.

33:18

It's a shocking crime spree.

33:21

So Helzer is

33:23

obviously arrested, but I

33:25

heard you guys mumbling before we started

33:27

recording today. There's

33:30

a story about his arrest, isn't there?

33:32

Yes. Glenn Helzer

33:34

had been placed in the back of a patrol

33:37

car and

33:40

then left alone. And he was able to

33:42

squirrel his way out. Wait, what? Yeah.

33:45

In the article I read about this

33:47

case, it said, Glenn kicks out the back window

33:49

of the patrol car and just takes off

33:52

running. And the cops go back to the car and they're

33:54

like,

33:55

where'd the window go? And then he goes inside the back seat

33:57

go. So Glenn kicked

33:59

out. the back window? Right. I

34:02

wasn't there to see the patrol

34:04

car and its condition, but I

34:06

think there was some policies that

34:08

weren't followed in terms of how to maintain

34:11

control over somebody you've just arrested. You

34:15

just can't take your eyes off people

34:18

in these circumstances. Somebody at least has

34:20

to have eyes on him. You know, you can seat

34:22

him in the patrol car,

34:24

but you can't leave. It just blew me

34:26

away that you'd lose control over this

34:28

suspect. You know, this guy is

34:31

responsible for five homicides at this

34:33

point. He's going to kill anybody in his way.

34:35

For sure.

34:52

So

34:52

there was a huge manhunt now for

34:55

this guy responsible for five homicides.

34:58

Glenn gets out and

35:00

gets into another house.

35:03

At the time he was arrested, he had long hair. So

35:05

he very roughly and crudely

35:07

cuts his ponytail off to try to

35:09

change his appearance,

35:12

but then ultimately is caught before he gets too

35:14

far away and thank God. So

35:17

Glenn, Justin and Don are all arrested

35:19

and charged. They consolidate

35:21

all the homicides in Contra Costa County. So

35:24

now we have five murder charges

35:26

on all three.

35:28

And about a month after the homicides,

35:32

I went out there to basically get head hair

35:34

standards in order to help sort

35:36

through what hair we're finding with

35:39

the bodies as well as inside the house. And

35:43

to see this, and you guys

35:45

have seen this, you know, where you're dealing with

35:47

somebody who is not

35:49

completely with it. You

35:51

look at Glenn Helser and he was just was off.

35:55

Each of their attorneys were present

35:57

when I collected the head hair standards.

35:59

And then we also. took their fingerprints at this point in

36:01

time for latent print comparison

36:03

purposes so we can get the palm aspect.

36:06

From Don and Justin and Glenn.

36:09

All three of them, yes. But

36:11

Glenn is sitting there and his attorney, because

36:14

I go, I can pull your hair, you

36:16

can pull your hair, and Glenn's like

36:19

just gently trying to, you know,

36:21

tug on his hair and I was like, well that's

36:24

not going to work if you're not going to let me do it. And

36:26

so his attorney, a female attorney

36:28

decides I will collect your hair and I'll

36:30

be gentle Glenn. So as she's

36:33

sitting there pulling his head hair standards,

36:36

I'm, you know, collecting them in a

36:38

paper bindle, he

36:40

all of a sudden just

36:41

goes boom and kind of

36:43

jumps and with the intent to

36:45

startle everybody and then he just starts

36:47

chuckling. Mr. Helzer gets

36:50

off on people being afraid of him. Right.

36:53

But they all get convicted, you

36:55

know, Glenn and Justin are sentenced to

36:57

death and Don actually

36:59

takes a plea deal in exchange for her testimony.

37:02

Does she deny having any

37:05

actual physical part of these murders and

37:07

this kidnapping? She just happened to be along

37:09

for the ride?

37:10

In essence, yes. You know, that's what

37:12

her testimony was all about. She

37:14

basically talks about how,

37:16

you know, the scheme unfolded, her role in

37:19

it, how they really struggled

37:22

to kill the Steinmans with, you

37:24

know, the drugs and then had to resort to

37:26

using a hammer to bludgeon them. So

37:29

she was important to fill in

37:32

details that the

37:34

evidence couldn't let us know. Were

37:37

Glenn and Justin and Don already

37:39

like a posse that hung out

37:41

together? Had they meet?

37:43

Glenn and Justin met Don,

37:45

you know, kind of in this ironic situation. They

37:48

were attending a murder mystery

37:50

dinner in Walnut Creek. Shut

37:52

up. And I believe that was hosted by

37:54

the Mormon congregation.

37:56

Irony upon irony. I bet

37:58

they didn't solve it. But

38:02

now, you know, Glenn and Justin are on death

38:04

row. Glenn's still alive. Justin

38:07

tries to commit suicide by

38:10

shoving pens into both eyes.

38:13

Like ink pens? Like ink

38:15

pens into both eyes. Really? And

38:18

he doesn't die, but he's blind.

38:21

He wasn't poking his eyeballs out. He was trying to

38:23

drive the pens into the back of his brain. Oh. Who

38:26

would think of doing it that way, right? Right. A

38:29

few years later, Justin

38:32

hung himself. So Justin

38:35

is dead by his own hand in prison?

38:38

Yes. So Glenn is still

38:40

in prison on death row with no

38:43

possibility of parole? That is correct. Don

38:46

took a plea deal. Do you know what the

38:48

parameters of that deal were? Don

38:51

received, I believe it was 38 years to life. Paul,

38:55

how old are Glenn, Don, and Justin

38:57

when they commit these five murders?

39:00

They were in their early 30s. Okay. That's

39:02

young. Just for clarification,

39:05

Glenn is kind of the ringleader of this trio?

39:08

Yeah. There's no question. Glenn

39:10

is alpha in this. Justin was

39:13

his patsy brother, you know, just followed

39:15

along and very

39:17

susceptible to being influenced. You

39:20

know, these guys that are leading

39:23

cults, they have to have that ability

39:26

to get people to follow them. Right. And

39:28

Glenn definitely had that personality to

39:30

him.

39:31

What's in this scheme for Justin? Maybe

39:33

you get a little cash on the side, but if he's highly

39:36

susceptible and his brother says this

39:38

is what we're doing, then maybe

39:40

that's enough.

39:42

Glenn had done a very good job of

39:44

working on his brother to get him to buy into

39:46

the new ideology. And

39:48

that Glenn is running the show and his brother's

39:50

going to basically like his top hand.

39:54

And then you have Don, who

39:56

also buys into all of this, and

39:58

Selena, who buys into all of this. all this. However,

40:01

Selena in Glenn's

40:04

eyes is a huge liability.

40:07

Selena introduces her mother

40:09

to her boyfriend and now you have three

40:11

people that died and they were just

40:14

used. Yeah.

40:15

All of them, truly innocent victims in this.

40:18

Selena, you know, she didn't know

40:20

what all was going to transpire. She

40:23

just was being used by Glenn.

40:25

So five innocent people, lost their lives,

40:28

families destroyed.

40:29

And it was all because you had a guy who

40:32

really just had a cracked view

40:34

of the world. I think about

40:36

fly on the wall type scenarios in

40:39

this bathroom as this dismemberment

40:41

is occurring, what that scene looks

40:43

like and they're

40:47

animals. I mean, yeah,

40:49

absolutely. Could you imagine putting

40:52

like myself in the offender's mind

40:55

and physically experiencing what that offender

40:58

must be experiencing while he's, you

41:00

know, got decapitated heads and removing

41:02

the teeth.

41:03

Imagine being Glenn or Justin

41:06

who's chiseling the teeth out of

41:08

these heads, cutting the bodies up

41:11

and what sensations they have

41:13

as they're doing that, but also

41:16

beyond the opposite. And you know,

41:18

what did Selena experience

41:20

right before? You know, she's now realizing

41:23

they're going to kill me too. Yeah. The fear.

41:26

Oh my God. Absolutely. Do

41:28

you believe, let's say they hadn't caught

41:30

the helzers. Do you think that there

41:33

would have been more murders?

41:35

I believe there would have been

41:38

more homicides, but not

41:41

because this was a

41:43

fantasy motivated predator.

41:46

The homicides would have occurred in

41:49

order to keep the philosophy

41:53

on point. So if somebody were

41:55

to derail the formation

41:58

or the success of what Glenn wanted

42:01

to establish, I believe he would

42:03

have killed them in order

42:05

to maintain his vision.

42:07

He killed five people just to try to get

42:09

money to set this thing up. He's not

42:12

going to shy away from killing people in the future.

42:16

In reading the article to prepare for this

42:18

recording, I read that the

42:20

Helters put together a list and

42:23

the Steinmans were listed second on the

42:25

list. There was actually victims listed

42:27

before the Steinmans, but they weren't home

42:30

when the Helters came calling.

42:32

And these were all people that the Helters thought, oh,

42:34

we should knock them off too and steal their money. Yeah,

42:37

I believe they were all clients of Glenn

42:39

at the time he was a stockbroker. You

42:41

know, if they had succeeded with the Steinmans,

42:44

then they probably would have continued down that list. Right.

42:47

So this is a pretty horrific crime,

42:49

but if you had already been working for a decade

42:51

given the kind of cases that you had

42:53

investigated, you've already

42:56

seen a lot. What about this case

42:59

stands out for you?

43:01

Well, I think the brutality

43:05

of what happened to the Steinmans

43:07

and to Selena, that

43:10

really stands out. Here you have

43:14

somebody who just has a life philosophy and

43:16

wants to pursue it, and now he's willing

43:18

to go to that level to accomplish

43:21

it. I do think that

43:23

this case kind of underscores

43:27

the trauma that individuals

43:30

that are working the case can experience

43:34

and do experience,

43:34

because the criminalists

43:37

that went up to Sacramento County to

43:39

document all the body parts and

43:42

the autopsy that the pathologist was doing, when

43:45

he came back, he

43:47

just told me, Paul, that was effed up.

43:49

And at that point in time,

43:53

that was a cry for help. From

43:55

him? From him. And I didn't

43:58

recognize it. at that

44:00

point in my career, but I'm

44:02

sure that experience has stuck

44:04

with him to this day. Knowing

44:07

what I know, at least from Dan and Dave,

44:10

the mere admission,

44:12

a kind of putting a label on

44:15

a case like that was fucked up, is

44:17

huge. Those thoughts might

44:19

roam around your heads far

44:22

more often than you are willing to

44:24

articulate to somebody other

44:26

than, let's say, your spouse or

44:28

your partner who isn't probably going to divulge

44:31

that.

44:32

Absolutely, because you can't show weakness.

44:35

Not only on the peace officer

44:37

side and that culture,

44:40

but also within the crime

44:43

scene world, you know, you need

44:45

to be able to show that I can

44:47

handle anything and I have handled anything,

44:49

right?

44:50

To be able to go, ooh, that really

44:53

messed with me. It affected

44:55

me is a massive admission. How

44:58

do you go home and be a husband,

45:01

a father, a friend? I

45:04

cannot, I can't. No,

45:07

it does impact family life for sure. I've

45:10

said it so many times on this podcast, but

45:12

honestly, the job

45:15

you all have,

45:17

it occurs to me more and more with each story

45:19

that you tell, it's just not

45:21

natural. And it really takes

45:23

a certain kind of person who won't give

45:26

up, who's absolutely determined

45:29

that justice must be served to

45:32

do the kinds of things that you guys

45:34

do. And

45:36

it's gotta be why you say it's a calling and not

45:38

just a job.

45:40

I, for one, am so grateful

45:42

you never give up. I appreciate

45:45

it. Thanks, Paul. Good job. Thank

45:47

you.

45:51

Small Town Dicks is produced by Gary

45:53

Scott and me at Yardley Smith and

45:56

co-produced by detectives Dan and

45:58

Dave. Our production. Our session manager

46:00

is Logan Heftel, our senior

46:03

editor is Soren Vasion, and

46:05

our editor is Christina Bracamontes.

46:09

Our associate producers are Erin Gaynor and

46:11

The Real Nick Smitty. Our social media

46:13

is run by the one and only Monica

46:15

Scott. Our music is composed

46:18

by John Forrest, and our books are

46:20

cooked and cats wrangled by Ben

46:22

Cornwell.

46:23

If you like what you hear and want to stay

46:25

up to date go visit us on our website

46:27

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46:30

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46:32

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46:37

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46:41

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46:47

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47:07

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In search of the finest, rare,

47:16

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47:18

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47:21

thanks for listening, Smalltown fam.

47:23

Nobody's better than you.