Episode Transcript
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0:42
Hey
0:46
small town fam, it's Yardley. How
0:48
are you guys? We have a jaw-dropping
0:51
episode for you today from a terrific
0:54
new guest. We're welcoming to the podcast
0:56
named Detective Brad. So
0:59
if you listen to or watch
1:02
a lot of true crime, like I do, you've
1:05
probably heard people in the criminal justice
1:07
system say that there are only
1:09
three reasons why people commit
1:12
murder.
1:12
They are love, money, and
1:15
pride. I remember the first
1:18
time I heard that several years ago and I
1:20
remember thinking, that is an absurd
1:22
generalization. There have to
1:25
be more than three reasons why
1:27
people kill each other. But
1:29
now every time I listen to, watch, or
1:32
read about a true crime case that's a
1:34
homicide, the motive is
1:37
always one of those three. I'd be
1:40
so curious to know if you also find
1:42
that to be true. In the meantime,
1:44
I'm not going to tell you which of those motives
1:46
is the reason for today's episode, but
1:49
I will tell you that this case unfolds
1:51
like a limited series on your favorite streaming
1:54
platform. There's a carnival
1:56
bear, scuba divers, and
1:59
uncooperative suspects. and his guilt-ridden
2:01
friends to name just a few of the details
2:03
you're about to hear. Suffice to
2:05
say, there are a lot of moving
2:08
pieces in this case, and it takes
2:10
quite a while for police to gather enough evidence
2:13
so that they can finally arrest the killer.
2:16
Because in addition to all of the other
2:18
things working against them, the
2:20
killer is not unfamiliar with the
2:22
kinds of clues police will be looking for,
2:25
so he does a fair job of covering
2:28
his tracks for a while.
2:29
Because this case is
2:32
such a big bite, we've broken it into
2:34
two episodes. This is part
2:36
one, and part two will be next
2:39
week. So please buckle
2:41
up for no such thing
2:43
as closure.
2:48
Hi there, I'm Yardley. I'm Dan.
2:50
I'm Dave. And I'm Paul. And this
2:53
is Smalltown Dicks. Dave and I are
2:55
identical twins and retired detectives
2:57
from Smalltown USA. And I'm a veteran
2:59
cold case investigator who helped catch the Golden
3:01
State Killer using a revolutionary DNA
3:04
tool. Between the three of us, we've investigated
3:06
thousands of crimes from petty theft to
3:09
sexual assault, child abuse to
3:11
murder. Each case we cover is told
3:13
by the detective who investigated it, offering
3:15
a rare personal account of how they solved
3:17
the crime. Names, places,
3:19
and certain details have been changed to protect
3:21
the privacy of victims and their families. And
3:23
although we're aware that some of our listeners may be
3:26
familiar with these cases, we ask you to please
3:28
join us in continuing to protect the true identities
3:30
of those involved out of respect for what they've
3:32
been through.
3:33
Thank you. Today
3:40
on Smalltown Dicks, we
3:42
have the usual suspects.
3:45
We have Detective Dan.
3:46
Uh, hello everyone. Hello.
3:50
We have Detective Dave. Happy
3:52
January to you, sister-in-law. Oh, oh,
3:54
thank you. I have a new title now. That's
3:56
a completely different opening. What
4:00
if this episode airs in April? Happy
4:03
season, Yardley. Thank you, David.
4:06
I'm so happy you're here. And
4:09
we have the one and only Paul Holes.
4:11
Hey, hey, how's it going? It's so good.
4:13
It's good because you're here right next to me. I
4:16
so appreciate you. I
4:18
love that guy. And small town
4:20
fam, we are absolutely delighted
4:22
to welcome a new guest to the podcast,
4:25
Detective Brad.
4:27
Hello. Thanks for having me. Thank you
4:29
so much for giving us your time
4:31
and sharing a story with us. So Brad,
4:34
before we get to how this
4:36
case came to you, tell us a little bit
4:38
about your jurisdiction
4:42
career
4:42
path, special assignments, the type
4:44
of caseload you work, maybe a little bio
4:47
about your career, and any
4:49
differences that your jurisdiction
4:51
might have contrasted with a neighboring
4:53
county, demographic type stuff.
4:56
Yeah, so I work for a sheriff's
4:58
office. Now, you
5:00
ask about what makes our demographic, I guess,
5:02
different than others is, although
5:05
we are a sheriff's office, we kind
5:07
of operate
5:08
as a
5:10
metropolitan police department almost. We
5:13
have very rural areas,
5:15
but we also have a lot of, I guess,
5:18
of a city feel to it. We cover a lot of jurisdictions.
5:22
We cover some small cities
5:24
that can't afford their own police department.
5:26
We provide those police services. So
5:28
my career, I have
5:30
worked here. I just passed my 24th year. I
5:35
spent a
5:36
couple of years on patrol and
5:39
then went to gang enforcement
5:41
where I worked for about four and a half
5:43
years. Spent
5:46
after that about five years working narcotics.
5:49
And then following that, I got promoted to
5:51
detective.
5:52
So I have now been a detective for about 11
5:54
years. I had the blessing
5:57
that after being
5:59
a detective for a while,
5:59
about a year I went to a federal task force where
6:02
I was assigned on a fugitive
6:05
task force.
6:07
And I did that for about five years. So
6:09
now I'm back working in our violent crimes unit.
6:12
We handle everything from child abuse cases
6:15
to robberies, homicides, pretty
6:17
much the full gamut. What was your
6:19
favorite period of your career?
6:21
They've
6:23
all got their perks. I
6:25
think being on the fugitive task force was
6:27
probably one of the funnest times. I bet. We've
6:30
worked with the US Marshals on a few cases and you're
6:32
just like, oh, they have toys I don't. Yep.
6:36
We definitely had some abilities that
6:38
we were able to do. Being
6:41
a task force officer, my primary responsibility
6:43
was looking for fugitives associated
6:46
to my agency. So
6:48
I've actually been able to locate
6:50
a couple of fugitives and bring them back from foreign
6:52
countries and stuff like that. Oh,
6:54
wow. That's amazing. All right.
6:57
So Brad, please tell us
6:59
how this case came to you.
7:01
So in January
7:04
of 2018, we received a
7:06
call actually from a neighboring
7:08
city agency. They were passing
7:10
a case off to us and
7:13
essentially the information
7:15
they had was a gentleman
7:17
was calling in reporting
7:19
that he had met with a friend the
7:21
night before.
7:23
And that friend disclosed to him that
7:25
he had murdered a female
7:28
and
7:29
that her body was in the trunk of his
7:31
BMW, which was parked around
7:33
the
7:34
corner of his house.
7:36
His house, meaning the friend
7:38
who said he committed the murder. Correct.
7:41
His name is Johnny. Jeff went on
7:43
to say that the girl had
7:45
owed Johnny some money, which is why
7:47
he ultimately ended up killing her. In
7:50
order to start disposing of the body,
7:52
he had actually dismembered her and put
7:54
those body parts into black
7:56
plastic bags with bleach and.
10:00
and the information the detectives are seeing in the
10:02
car. Everything seems to be aligning.
10:06
So at that point, we're
10:08
a little questionable whether we
10:10
have enough probable cause to get that
10:12
search warrant. So we're trying to think of
10:15
ways that we can bolster that. So
10:17
reaching back to my narcotics background, I
10:20
thought, well, what if we get a cadaver
10:22
dog to just go walk by this car
10:24
and do a search, essentially?
10:27
So we reached out to our
10:30
local search and rescue team, and they
10:33
get a cadaver dog. Takes them a
10:35
couple hours to get out there.
10:36
So when they get there, they start
10:39
out having a dog walk down
10:41
the sidewalk,
10:42
checks a couple of cars that are parked around the BMW.
10:46
So they kind of walk by those. Dog doesn't
10:48
alert to anything. Dog walks past the BMW,
10:52
walks around the car, and
10:54
alerts on the driver's door and
10:56
the rear door of the BMW.
10:59
So that was pretty
11:01
much exactly what we were hoping for. So
11:04
we were then able to get a search warrant
11:07
for that car. Brad, I'm just kind of curious,
11:09
was there an odor of bleach at all
11:11
detected? We couldn't smell anything
11:14
at that time. OK. And to
11:16
kind of go back, as all that's going
11:18
on, we had done some work upon Johnny. We
11:20
found out that Johnny was 35 years
11:22
old. He's on parole.
11:26
He had just been released from prison about
11:28
eight months before that, and
11:30
he had been imprisoned for distribution
11:33
of cocaine. Other than that, he's got
11:35
some drug and identity theft type charges,
11:38
and that's kind of his history. Nothing
11:40
violent.
11:41
So
11:43
while we're preparing the search warrant, detectives
11:45
are sitting in the car just watching it, and
11:47
pretty soon a vehicle
11:49
rolls up and two guys get out, and
11:52
the detectives immediately identify
11:55
one of them as being Johnny. So
11:58
Johnny retrieves that. a moving
12:00
blanket from the car they were
12:03
in and starts walking
12:05
towards his BMW.
12:07
Can Johnny see the detectives or are
12:09
they in a spot where they spot
12:11
him and he can't spot them? There are none
12:13
of our cars. There's one across
12:15
the street, I think, and another one down around
12:17
the corner. We're very good at
12:19
hiding
12:20
in plain sight. Some cops are not.
12:24
That is very true. So
12:28
as Johnny approaches his BMW, he's
12:30
greeted by one of the detectives who asked
12:33
if that was his car and he said it was.
12:35
The detective goes on to ask if he's
12:38
moving somewhere because he's got
12:40
a moving blanket and he sees a suitcase in the
12:42
backseat of his car. Should
12:44
be noted that Johnny instantly became
12:47
very, very nervous, was not very
12:49
interested in talking to the detectives. Johnny
12:52
said that they were planning on
12:54
just moving the car somewhere. So
12:56
the detectives ask
12:59
for consent to search the car. Johnny
13:01
of course denies and asks
13:04
if he has to stay there. So
13:07
that kind of put us in a dilemma. You know,
13:10
we're at a point where we're writing a search warrant
13:12
for this car to see if this homicide
13:15
has actually occurred and our suspect
13:17
is standing right there talking to a detective.
13:19
So do we let him go or do
13:21
we hold on to him? So
13:24
the detective has to make a quick decision and just
13:26
decides, nope,
13:27
you're free to go.
13:28
So we let Johnny walk, he
13:30
and his buddy get back in their car and
13:33
they leave.
13:33
So Johnny and his friend get back
13:35
in the car they arrived in and they leave the BMW
13:39
where it is. Correct. So
13:42
I asked the detectives to try and keep an
13:44
eye on him, see if they can follow him. They
13:47
lost him very quickly. I don't even
13:49
think they can catch up to him.
14:03
That's
14:03
an interesting dilemma. The
14:05
detective deciding to let Johnny go,
14:07
even though you all strongly suspected
14:10
that he'd hidden the body of a murdered woman in his
14:12
BMW. Tell
14:15
me about that.
14:16
When people think about, well, why'd they let him go
14:18
right then? It really is all
14:21
strategy. You have to balance, is this
14:23
an ongoing public threat or is this an
14:25
isolated incident where we don't have
14:27
this huge pool of potential victims? Is
14:30
this suspect going to talk to me at this
14:32
point or is he now hinged up and he wants
14:35
to get out of there? And so if we slow
14:37
play this and let the suspect take off,
14:39
he's like, oh, well, they're not onto me yet.
14:42
They think something's up, obviously, but there's
14:45
always risks and rewards to these
14:46
scenarios. And when
14:48
Brad said the detective decided I'm
14:50
going to let him go, I was like, I would have
14:53
done that too.
14:53
And obviously it strengthens your
14:55
case as you're getting the search warrant for the BMW.
14:58
If you then find evidence of the
15:01
body or homicide in it, then
15:03
you have a much stronger case, right,
15:05
to go and arrest Johnny and say, dude, you're
15:07
on the hook.
15:08
Now let's say Johnny, instead of getting into
15:10
his friend's car, he goes over to
15:12
his BMW and
15:14
tries to drive off. Now you've got PC
15:17
for the search warrant, so you're not going to let that go. Yeah,
15:20
we were not going to let that BMW leave. I can
15:22
tell you that.
15:23
So Johnny and Cameron get back in their
15:25
vehicle and they leave. Cameron
15:28
is the friend who's with Johnny? Yes.
15:30
We are able to determine that the
15:32
vehicle they're in is actually Johnny's
15:35
stepdad's vehicle. So
15:38
we put out a bolo for this car,
15:40
keep an eye out for it, just within
15:42
the local agencies, like, hey, if anybody sees
15:44
this thing, you know, let us know. So
15:47
at that point, we also decide, well,
15:50
let's send some detectives over to go talk to
15:52
Johnny and his mom and his stepdad
15:54
at the residence. And as
15:56
they're going over there, my partner gets
15:59
a call from. from our original caller, Jeff. Jeff's
16:02
freaking out, saying that Johnny just called
16:04
him, wanting to know who he told about
16:07
what Johnny had told Jeff.
16:08
And that is that
16:10
Johnny told Jeff he killed a woman
16:13
and chopped up her body. Correct.
16:16
So Jeff actually did a really good job,
16:19
played it off that he didn't tell anybody anything,
16:21
and turned it back on Johnny, saying, who
16:23
else did you tell? So that
16:26
was enough to kind of cool things for a little bit. Johnny
16:29
tells him that he was just contacted
16:31
by police at his BMW, and
16:34
they let him go, and he was out of there. So
16:37
back to the detectives then that go to the house,
16:40
they start talking to Johnny's parents. They
16:42
don't mention anything about a homicide investigation
16:44
or anything like that. They're investigating something,
16:47
and they believe that Johnny
16:50
might be a part of it, and try
16:52
to kind of get some background information from
16:54
them. So Johnny's
16:57
mom says, well, I just got a text from Johnny,
17:00
and it says, I'm sorry,
17:02
I love you, and that's it. She
17:05
then tried to reply to him
17:07
several times and got no response.
17:10
So a couple hours
17:12
later, we finally get the search
17:14
warrant signed for the car, and
17:16
we had made arrangements for a medical
17:18
examiner to come on out. So
17:21
we didn't actually do any searching
17:23
ourselves. Once we had the warrant,
17:25
we let the medical examiner execute
17:27
it, basically. So we pop the trunk of
17:29
the car, and when they
17:31
open the trunk of the car, there's another suitcase.
17:34
This suitcase has
17:36
what looks like a large teddy
17:39
bear sticking out of it.
17:41
So if you have seen those
17:43
big, like,
17:44
four foot tall teddy bears.
17:47
Like big carnival prize teddy bear. Correct.
17:50
So we got one of those that, like,
17:52
the legs and stuff are like hanging out of
17:54
this big suitcase because it's too big for the
17:56
suitcase. But the suitcase is
17:58
zip shut. So the medical. examiner
18:01
unzips the suitcase enough just so he
18:03
can stick his hand in there and he starts feeling around
18:07
and he finally
18:09
gets to the point where he says I'm
18:11
pretty confident this is a human
18:13
body that he feels inside of this
18:15
teddy bear. Oh. So based
18:18
on that we stopped all searching
18:20
right there. We basically sealed
18:23
up the car and we had it towed back
18:25
to our sheriff's office where we could process
18:28
it in a more sterile environment.
18:31
So we bring the car back to the sheriff's office
18:34
where the medical examiner
18:37
meets us to continue this
18:40
search of the car and from
18:43
him talking to the pathologist they
18:46
determined that don't disturb anything
18:49
bring it to us exactly how it is. So
18:52
all we do is remove the suitcases both
18:54
suitcases the one from the backseat the one from
18:57
the trunk we remove them from the
18:59
car and the
19:01
medical examiner takes those and takes them
19:03
down to the pathologist for autopsy
19:06
the following day.
19:07
So we're still kind of left
19:09
with this unknown of what we have
19:12
but we know
19:13
more likely than not that we've got a body inside
19:16
of these suitcases. So
19:18
at that point is when I really put
19:20
out the bolo we are now looking for Johnny
19:23
and we have probable cause to arrest Johnny should
19:26
anybody find him. So those bolos
19:28
go out and we put them out statewide.
19:30
We end up serving the search
19:32
warrant on this car at about 9 o'clock p.m. At
19:34
about 1030 the detectives
19:36
go back to the parents house and
19:39
this time we're gonna press the parents a little bit further
19:41
because now we know we've got a homicide.
19:43
So the detectives go to the house they
19:45
inform the parents that we are now doing a homicide
19:48
investigation and Johnny's
19:50
stepfather all of a sudden says well I can
19:53
tell you where the homicide occurred and
19:55
the detectives were just
19:57
like what?
19:58
So the stepfather takes
19:59
them over to the stairwell and points down
20:02
the stairs. And there's a
20:04
big indent at the bottom of the stairs.
20:06
The stairs kind of end in a wall. And
20:09
in the wall, the sheetrock is completely dented
20:11
in, as if like a body had
20:13
slammed into it and dented all the sheetrock.
20:16
So the parents continue to tell us that they
20:19
had been out of town for the weekend. Johnny
20:21
was left at home alone. He had actually
20:23
asked if he could have a girl come over
20:26
for the weekend, didn't say who or
20:28
provide any names or anything like that. Parents
20:30
didn't ask. So the
20:33
parents are also kind of really
20:35
into CSI and law and
20:38
order and stuff like that. So they like their
20:40
cop shows. So they were
20:42
kind of intrigued in this as well. So the
20:45
stepdad proceeds to lead
20:47
the detectives down the stairs.
20:50
One of the detectives goes down and gets
20:52
to the bottom stairs. And the stairwell
20:54
splits to the right and to the left. And
20:56
when he looks to the right, which is kind of towards this living
20:59
room area, there's this huge
21:01
red stain in the carpet. So
21:03
the stepdad proceeds to tell us that Johnny
21:06
had told him that he spilled some red Gatorade,
21:09
which seemed plausible because Johnny drinks
21:11
a lot of red Gatorade.
21:13
The detective at that point is like, what
21:15
am I walking into? So he stops. We
21:18
don't want to contaminate the crime scene if this
21:20
is actually our crime scene. So he stops
21:22
stepdad from going further. Stepdad
21:25
continues to tell him that
21:26
around the corner is the downstairs bathroom
21:29
laundry room. And
21:31
when they got home, that bathroom smelled
21:35
very strongly of bleach. And
21:37
they noticed that there were two gallons of bleach
21:39
missing. There's your bleach, Paul. Yep.
21:41
In fact, mom had made
21:43
Johnny go to the store and
21:46
buy more bleach as a
21:48
lesson of if you use something, you need to
21:50
replace it. So Johnny did.
21:52
I feel like there's a much larger lesson to
21:54
be learned here rather than
21:56
replace the bleach. Oi.
21:59
At that point, the detectives stop
22:02
and my partner starts working on
22:04
a search warrant for Johnny's house.
22:07
As all that's going on, the
22:09
city agency then, at like 11-15, receives
22:11
a 911 call of a person
22:13
yelling
22:17
for help in a kind
22:19
of a wooded area that's behind an apartment
22:21
complex, which also
22:24
kind of neighbors this big shopping complex.
22:27
So the city agency responds,
22:29
they get down there and ultimately
22:31
find the source of the screaming,
22:34
which is a male laying in a small creek
22:37
and he's got stab wounds to his
22:39
neck and both of his wrists
22:41
are cut. There's a large knife laying next
22:43
to him and they are very quickly
22:46
learned that this is Johnny.
22:47
Oh, the man whose throat is cut
22:49
is Johnny? Yep.
22:51
So it became very clear to us
22:53
that Johnny, knowing that we're on to him,
22:55
decided he was going to go take his own life. I
22:58
later learned from medical
23:00
personnel that probably the only reason
23:02
he didn't die is because this
23:04
is in January, where it's very
23:07
cold, he fell into the creek, which
23:09
he became hypothermic which lowered his blood
23:12
pressure so he didn't bleed out. Wow.
23:14
That's how it was portrayed to me. So we're
23:17
able to get Johnny to the hospital and the doctors
23:20
saved Johnny's life. Did he thank them? I
23:23
don't think so. So
23:26
all this is going on. We start directing
23:28
detectives. His car's got to be around there. You got
23:30
to find his car, the stepdad's
23:32
car. So they're scouring around. They end up
23:34
finding it in the shopping complex near
23:37
a large grocery store. And
23:40
so we get some video eventually
23:43
of this store. We see them
23:45
park. It's not very good video, but you
23:47
can see them park in the middle of the parking
23:49
lot. Johnny goes one
23:51
way and Cameron, his
23:54
buddy, goes the other direction, like
23:57
walks back towards the main road. So
23:59
I'm able to get a video. to determine
24:02
that Johnny had gone into the grocery
24:04
store, purchased the knife from
24:06
the grocery store. We actually caught that transaction
24:09
and used that knife then to walk
24:12
over to this wooded area and try to kill himself.
24:14
Was this screaming? Was that
24:17
like buyer's remorse where he's going, oh
24:19
shit, I didn't want to die or it hurt so bad?
24:22
He was screaming for help. I
24:24
think it was, I didn't die, so
24:27
now what do I do?
24:27
And it's freezing cold. So I'm in the freezing cold
24:30
water? It's a series of screw ups. Johnny's
24:32
one of those criminals that is reliable.
24:35
Criminals make mistakes and he gets caught.
24:37
He goes to prison for things. Where he just got
24:40
out of. Right.
24:41
So we get step
24:43
dad's permission to search his car. So
24:46
we get a spare set of keys from step dad.
24:48
We search the car, nothing really of
24:50
any relevance inside step dad's
24:52
car. Cameron, nowhere
24:55
to be found. Our focus that night
24:57
then turned to just focusing
24:59
on the house. We
25:01
know Johnny's in the hospital. So
25:03
we got detectives in the house with mom
25:05
and step dad. While
25:08
me and my partner are working on the search warrant for the
25:11
house. And we basically
25:13
end up deciding like once we
25:15
get the search warrant done, we're going to leave
25:17
somebody at the house all night and we're
25:19
not going to actually serve this thing until the next morning.
25:21
Cause this is going to be resource intensive. Forensics
25:25
is going to have to come out. They're
25:27
going to have to do their thing before we can even search it. So
25:29
we decide we're just going to start the next morning. So
25:32
we actually leave a patrol guy in the
25:34
house. Mom and dad don't want to go anywhere.
25:37
So they actually stay at the house
25:39
at night with a deputy sitting in their living room
25:42
to make sure that they're not going down in the basement
25:44
or disturbing anything in the house, getting rid of
25:46
any evidence. It seems like the parents,
25:49
at least my initial read is that the parents
25:51
are cooperative. They are very cooperative.
25:54
They're concerned about Johnny, but
25:57
they aren't trying to cover for him in any
25:59
way.
25:59
perform. So Brad, when they tell
26:02
you initially, oh, we
26:04
know where the homicide happened and Johnny's
26:06
stepdad takes the detective down the stairs,
26:09
what's his affect? Is he concerned?
26:12
Is he like, why wouldn't you volunteer
26:14
that information right out of the gate? I guess this
26:16
is my question.
26:17
He was just very matter of fact,
26:19
really. And when the detectives
26:22
were there the first time, they had no idea why they were
26:24
there.
26:25
And so when the detectives came back the second
26:27
time and said, Hey, just so you know, we're
26:29
doing a homicide investigation. We think Johnny's
26:31
involved. Light bulb. Light
26:33
bulb went off for stepdad. Oh,
26:35
I know where the homicide occurred.
26:37
I see. I see. Here's a bunch of shit that wasn't
26:39
here four days ago. That red Gatorade
26:42
stain is looking a little bit thicker and darker
26:44
than Gatorade normally looks. Right.
26:46
I get it. So right out of the gate,
26:49
stepdad would not have suspected a homicide
26:51
took place there. But when the detective
26:53
shares that information with him, he's like, Oh,
26:56
yep. You know, Brad, at this point,
26:59
and this is just really to put it out there
27:01
is that you're doing all of this before
27:03
the autopsy has even occurred.
27:05
Correct. You know, you have a body and
27:07
then the body, I'm assuming, you know, at this point
27:10
it is consistent with what the
27:12
reporting party Jeff said is that it has
27:15
been dismembered, but you don't
27:17
know cause of death. You don't know what kind
27:19
of injuries this body has up
27:21
and beyond the dismemberment. And
27:23
this is also going to be details
27:25
that as you're searching the crime scene,
27:27
you're going to want to know this is a very dynamic
27:30
situation that is going to be occurring over the
27:32
next 24 hours. That is correct.
27:35
Yeah. So the next morning we have to
27:37
divide and conquer because we got the autopsy
27:39
going on, which is crucial as
27:42
Paul just alluded to that, you know, we
27:44
need to figure out what happened to this person,
27:47
who is this person. And
27:49
then at the same time, several of us
27:51
are out at the house getting ready to
27:53
serve this search warrant on the house. So
27:57
me and one of my other partners are at the house with.
28:00
and stepdad, we relieved the deputy that
28:02
sat on their couch all night long. So
28:05
two of my other partners, along with the district
28:07
attorney and stuff, go to the autopsy.
28:11
So as we're at the house, we're
28:13
talking to mom and stepdad, and we're trying to
28:15
figure out who this victim might be. Mom,
28:18
again, is re-telling us the story of how Johnny
28:21
had asked to have a girl come over for the weekend.
28:23
She throws out a couple names, but
28:26
she has no idea who was
28:28
coming over.
28:29
So I learned that
28:32
Johnny's on their cell phone plan.
28:34
I asked mom, can I log into your wireless
28:36
account
28:37
and see who he's been talking to? Absolutely.
28:40
She gives me the account,
28:42
password, and everything.
28:44
I go to my computer, log in, start going
28:46
through call logs for Johnny. And
28:48
I come up with a few names,
28:51
but you know, it could be any of them. So
28:53
at the same time, detectives at
28:55
the autopsy are telling me
28:57
that they determined that
28:59
the arms and legs of
29:01
this female body had been cut off.
29:04
She'd been decapitated. They had
29:08
all the body parts, except
29:10
for the fingertips and
29:13
the head.
29:13
So the fingertips and the head were missing.
29:16
The head to the bear was
29:19
also missing. They had also
29:21
noticed that all the tattoos that this
29:23
person had had either been cut off
29:26
and discarded or
29:29
mangled so you couldn't tell what they were.
29:31
So Johnny's watched a lot of true crime. Well,
29:33
no, Johnny's a criminal and knows
29:36
what we asked for on face sheets when I
29:38
book you into custody. Scars, marks, tattoos.
29:40
He's doing everything he can to
29:43
obscure this woman's identity. That's
29:45
familiarity with the system. Yes.
29:48
Johnny screwed up in one spot, though, in
29:50
that one of the tattoos was left
29:52
in one of the black
29:54
garbage bags. So the detectives
29:56
shoot me a picture of this tattoo, which has
29:59
a specific word.
29:59
With that information, I'm
30:02
still going through phone records trying to identify
30:04
names. I take the few names that I
30:06
have and I start looking for tattoos in our jail
30:08
database. So our jail, fairly
30:11
good at when people come in, you
30:13
know, what tattoos do you have? They
30:16
snap pictures of them and enter
30:18
a description which is somewhat searchable
30:21
for us. So I start
30:23
going through some of the names I get from the call records
30:26
and run them through our jail
30:29
database and I come up with
30:31
one girl named Stacy. Stacy
30:34
has a tattoo with the exact same
30:36
word
30:37
as this tattoo they found in the garbage bag.
30:39
I pull up a picture of it and sure
30:42
enough, it is exactly
30:44
the same tattoo.
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31:43
So we now have an identity for our
31:45
victim, which is Stacy. What
31:47
can you tell us about Stacy? So
31:50
Stacy, she's 28 years old.
31:52
She lives locally. Her family
31:55
lives actually very nearby where Johnny
31:57
lives. history
32:00
of some property crime stuff, very minor
32:03
criminal history, but we can
32:05
see some of her associates and some of them are
32:07
very familiar to us, particularly
32:09
from the drug world and so on and so forth.
32:11
We end up finding her Facebook account
32:14
and we start seeing some posts on there from
32:17
like a couple days after
32:19
when we think this homicide
32:22
occurred. So when Jeff
32:24
initially reported it, the info
32:26
he got from Johnny was that he
32:28
had killed this girl four days before. So
32:30
we had kind of an idea when
32:32
this homicide occurred, which lines
32:35
up with when Johnny's mom and stepdad
32:37
were out of town as well.
32:39
So we see some Facebook posts
32:41
that are kind of past that timeline,
32:43
which was curious to us. What were
32:45
the posts like pictures, status
32:47
posts? The way my mind thinks is I'm
32:49
like, oh, suspects posting to Alibi
32:52
himself and show that this person was alive
32:54
long after I had less contact with
32:57
him. You've done this before.
32:58
Just a post that she put out is that
33:00
she was going to the beach and
33:03
if anybody wanted to join her. We
33:05
found more later, but at
33:07
the time, that was the one we saw is that she was
33:09
going to the beach. So now
33:12
that we know who Stacy is, we got
33:14
to notify Stacy's family. So
33:17
we get a couple of detectives, they take
33:19
a chaplain with them and they head over to
33:21
Stacy's parents' house, which is
33:23
only probably a quarter,
33:26
a half mile away from where the BMW
33:28
was found.
33:29
So they're over there talking to the family.
33:32
They ended up bringing into Stacy's
33:35
sister
33:36
and they're like, are your parents around? We
33:38
need to talk to them about
33:40
Stacy.
33:41
And they're like, well, is something wrong?
33:43
And she's like, well, I'm sorry to tell you that
33:46
Stacy is deceased. She
33:48
was murdered and the
33:50
family, as you can imagine,
33:52
is just devastated. So
33:55
the parents are notified.
33:57
Family members from all over
33:59
started.
33:59
showing up at the house while the detectives are
34:02
there. And one
34:04
of them
34:05
starts
34:06
searching the internet and comes up with a
34:08
news story about
34:10
a girl who was found murdered
34:13
in this town and her body was dismembered.
34:16
And comes running at the detectives with her phone
34:18
going, is this her, is this her?
34:20
And we hadn't released
34:23
that information yet. So
34:25
our detectives were completely taken a gas
34:28
by it and are kind of overwhelmed
34:30
at that point because they don't know what to think. Like, I
34:32
don't know what to tell this family. So
34:36
that actually as a side thing, we
34:38
started figuring out somewhere along the way, we
34:40
had a leak. Information was getting to the media
34:43
that we were not officially providing.
34:46
And we never actually did get to the bottom
34:48
of that. So frustrating. Yeah,
34:50
we never could figure out where that information came
34:52
from, but it got out to
34:54
the media. So for us, for our investigation,
34:57
like that's a real hindrance because there's a lot
34:59
of details for these investigations
35:01
that we like to keep secret and keep close
35:03
to the chest so that only people that are involved
35:05
in it
35:06
know these details. Well, now
35:08
some of our details are getting out to the public.
35:10
And so that to us was concerning.
35:13
So in talking to Stacy's family, particularly
35:15
her mother, they find out that the
35:18
day before we suspect Stacy
35:20
was killed, mom had gone out to
35:22
pick up Stacy at another jurisdiction
35:25
not too far away. And
35:28
Stacy wanted to go to rehab. She wanted
35:30
to go to an inpatient rehab. So mom
35:32
goes and picks her up, takes her to a local hospital
35:34
to get treatment and Stacy
35:37
gets refused. They don't have room
35:39
for her. And they refer to this
35:41
other facility that she can go to
35:44
the next morning. So when Stacy
35:46
gets denied at the hospital, she
35:48
tells the mom, I need you to get me a motel
35:50
room for the night. And then come pick
35:52
me up in the morning and take me to this other
35:55
rehab facility.
35:56
So mom agrees
35:59
and makes a reservation. for a local motel.
36:01
So they take Stacy to the motel and
36:04
Stacy checks in and goes into a room. A
36:06
couple of her sisters come and check on her later
36:09
in the evening, have a talk with her.
36:11
At one point, Stacy gets upset
36:15
with them and just asks them all to leave. So
36:17
they all leave, Stacy's at
36:20
the motel by herself and that's
36:22
the last anybody's seen her as far as
36:24
we know. So
36:28
while they're talking to the family,
36:29
we had already started the search warrant on the
36:32
house, Johnny's house, and
36:35
that was pretty much forensics. And forensics
36:38
worked that house for about
36:41
two days with just them.
36:43
So that was without detectives in
36:45
their way. I mean, we were there to provide
36:47
security, but for two days,
36:50
forensics process this house looking
36:52
for evidence. Paul, can you kind
36:54
of talk about, not to go off on a tangent, but
36:56
I just want listeners to be aware.
36:59
You have this set of facts. You're
37:01
leading this forensic team that's going into
37:03
this house to seize evidence. How
37:06
do you tackle that? How many people do you need?
37:08
What kind of equipment would you want? I want you
37:10
to give us kind of a game plan.
37:12
Well, in terms of number of people,
37:14
as well as the type of equipment, it
37:17
is all dependent upon the circumstances of the case.
37:20
The reality is, and you see this all the time
37:23
in the movies where you see a crime
37:25
scene inside a house being searched, and
37:27
you have 25 individuals with
37:30
windbreaker jackets on, that's a FBI
37:32
on the back doing the search, and that's absolutely
37:34
not what you want to do. We
37:37
really minimize the number
37:39
of people inside doing
37:42
the
37:42
crime scene processing. Typically it's
37:44
two. Now, sometimes the
37:46
size of the scene might dictate
37:49
more, or bringing
37:52
in specialized people. When
37:54
I first get on the scene, I'm
37:56
told what I call is the story. Now
37:59
there are certain...
37:59
objective facts that are within that
38:02
story. But we've all experienced
38:04
that what is understood at the time
38:07
that that crime scene is being looked at often
38:09
changes as the investigation proceeds.
38:13
But as I'm processing that crime
38:15
scene,
38:16
if I am noticing evidence
38:18
that suggests that the story is
38:20
wrong, I need to inform
38:22
the investigators as soon as
38:25
possible because they need to be armed
38:27
with that information as they are contacting
38:29
witnesses and interviewing suspects. Now,
38:31
as far as crime scene processing,
38:34
there are the standard steps in
38:36
terms of documenting, photographically,
38:39
sometimes video, sketching,
38:41
you don't disturb anything, and you go through
38:44
a series of non-destructive
38:46
steps, both from a documenting standpoint
38:49
and a searching standpoint, but
38:51
then you start getting into the destructive processing.
38:53
Okay, I'm now gonna collect trace evidence from
38:55
certain locations, either via tape lists
38:58
or vacuum, or even just using
39:00
forceps and collecting that. Late
39:02
in processing, where now I am actually
39:05
applying powder, super glue,
39:07
et cetera. But in a homicide
39:09
case, oftentimes you
39:11
have, let's say a house and that entire house
39:13
inside can be the crime scene
39:16
and could contain evidence. You
39:18
know, just there's so many differences from
39:20
one scene to another. Since I've got you on the
39:22
hook, I just wanna go back, since
39:24
we're on the topic of Paul Holes knowing
39:27
a few things,
39:29
the autopsy. You've got body
39:31
parts stuffed inside of a carnival
39:34
bear, and you've,
39:36
I'm guessing, have been to several autopsies
39:39
with dismembered bodies. Kinda
39:41
walk us through what that looks like in
39:44
the morgue, where the medical examiner is. Well,
39:46
like in this particular situation, we
39:48
have two suitcases, right?
39:51
We have one that was in the trunk with the large
39:53
teddy bear with the body parts that have been placed inside
39:55
of it. And then you also have the suitcase from
39:58
inside the car, which I'm assuming,
39:59
contained other parts of her body. So
40:02
between the two suitcases is all
40:04
of her body, at least what was present, right Brad?
40:06
Well, everything but the head and the fingertips.
40:09
Correct. So the suitcase, that's
40:11
evidence. That needs to be documented and you
40:13
document from the outside in and
40:16
it's a layered approach. Document that
40:18
suitcase from all angles, photographically,
40:20
looking for trays, looking for bloodstains, then
40:23
the suitcase can be opened up and then now
40:25
you're documenting again. And as you
40:27
go deeper and deeper to where
40:29
now the body parts are being
40:32
exposed, this is now where
40:34
the pathologist or the pathologist assistant comes
40:37
over and it's the removal of the body parts.
40:39
And then the body parts between the two suitcases
40:42
would ultimately be laid out in anatomic
40:45
position. And now I'm evaluating
40:48
from a criminalist level, each
40:51
body part for types of forensic
40:53
evidence that might be present, such as do
40:55
I have trace evidence that I need to collect before
40:58
they start doing their autopsy
40:59
procedure? What about the bone
41:02
ends? Is there any tool marks that I need
41:04
to be able to record both
41:06
what they look like face on as well as
41:09
using oblique lighting in order to be able to
41:11
illustrate the types of striations? Let's say
41:13
it's a saw that was used. Is
41:15
there any
41:16
unusual stains, whether
41:18
it be bloodstains or other types of stains? And
41:20
it just all depends on what's there. Ligature
41:22
present, you know, not. So whatever's present,
41:25
I need to focus in on that. But because
41:27
we are now dealing with the human body,
41:30
this is the purview of the ME's
41:32
office, the coroner's office. So I am constantly
41:34
having to talk to the pathologist
41:37
and say, okay, I'm going to be doing this now, or I need
41:39
to take this swab and I have to
41:41
get that okay in order to proceed
41:44
to the next step. Yeah. And I just wanted
41:46
folks to understand in these situations,
41:49
I'm hearing Paul describe
41:51
a crime scene processing like this case
41:53
or an autopsy and the documentation.
41:56
This is an all day affair. Yeah.
41:58
I guess to go back to the. autopsy
42:01
when they did start taking the layers
42:03
off, as Paul put it, in opening
42:06
the suitcases and then opening
42:08
this teddy bear and then inside
42:11
that as plastic bags. As they're starting to
42:13
do that, they're being overwhelmed
42:15
with the odor of bleach. So
42:17
that aligns with stepdad's statement
42:20
about all the missing bleach and also
42:22
the story that Joni told Jeff.
42:25
So as far as the forensics go, they
42:27
processed the entire basement
42:29
of this house, Joni's house. They
42:33
also can still smell the strong odor of
42:35
bleach in the laundry room, bathroom,
42:37
downstairs in the basement. They
42:39
treat a pretty good portion of the
42:41
house with chemical agents that
42:44
react with blood to look for trace
42:46
amounts of blood. Surprisingly,
42:48
Joni actually did a fairly good job of cleaning
42:50
up, but they were able to find
42:52
some trace amounts of what appeared to be
42:55
blood. They found some spots
42:57
in the carpet where it was clear that the carpet
42:59
had been cleaned or attempted to be
43:01
cleaned. When they
43:02
pulled the carpet up, the padding
43:05
underneath is soaked with what appears
43:07
to be blood. What often
43:09
is seen, you may see on
43:11
the carpet itself a blood stain
43:13
that's maybe 10 inches in diameter. And
43:16
you think it's a smallish blood stain. And
43:19
then when that carpet is pulled back,
43:22
that carpet pad has a blood
43:25
stain that is like a sponge.
43:27
And now you're dealing with a three foot diameter
43:30
blood stain. It's a very interesting
43:32
thing, but that's
43:32
what's so important. Any
43:35
time you have carpeting, you
43:37
are going through those layers, the carpet
43:39
to the padding, going down to the
43:41
subfloor. Yep. So they seized
43:44
a lot of swabs of apparent
43:46
blood. We see some of that carpeting.
43:49
The big red stain that was at the bottom
43:51
of the stairs did not appear
43:53
to be blood.
43:54
It really might have been red Gatorade.
43:56
It very well could have been red Gatorade.
43:59
So they collected a lot of hair, a lot
44:02
of fiber stuff where it looked like it
44:05
could have been the stuffing of the bear and stuff
44:07
like that for fiber analysis later at
44:09
the crime lab, some duct tape,
44:11
things along those lines that
44:13
were in the basement. So that goes
44:16
on for, like I said, like two days
44:19
before detectives are finally called
44:21
back to actually do a physical search
44:24
of the house looking for any evidence of
44:26
the crimes. During this time, what's
44:28
Johnny's condition? Is
44:31
he improving? Johnny, he's in critical condition at
44:33
the hospital. So we hadn't even tried
44:35
to contact him yet, but we send
44:37
some detectives over to the motel where Stacy
44:40
had been staying to try and lock
44:42
that down, see what we can figure out there. Is there
44:44
anything in the room? We don't
44:46
wanna assume that Johnny's
44:48
house is actually where this homicide occurred. Is
44:51
it possible the homicide actually occurred at
44:53
the motel? So we send people
44:55
over there and what they're able to learn
44:57
from there
44:57
is that
44:59
Stacy had actually left there at
45:02
about almost midnight
45:05
the night she checked in and she
45:07
had asked her sisters and everybody to
45:09
leave. She actually leaves
45:11
the motel and they can see that on camera.
45:15
She doesn't have any of her bags with her. She just
45:17
has what looks like her cell phone or a wallet
45:19
in her hand. And now this is the last
45:22
time there's any sighting of Stacy.
45:24
Does Johnny's cell phone records
45:27
indicate that he had called
45:29
or had communication with Stacy around
45:32
the time she left the motel or after she left
45:34
the motel?
45:35
Yes, they had been
45:37
in contact around that time.
45:39
1C-C MER TOTAL
45:52
Brad, what are the initial findings
45:54
at the autopsy regarding how Stacy died?
45:57
So the medical examiner makes a finding.
45:59
that Stacy was likely
46:02
killed by manual strangulation. And
46:06
that was based off of some tissue
46:09
damage around the neck. However,
46:12
they added that her head is missing,
46:14
so we can't factor that in
46:16
at this point. So after
46:19
processing the house, we still have Johnny's
46:21
BMW at the sheriff's office, and
46:24
nobody's doing anything with it because all
46:27
of our manpower is out dealing
46:29
with the house. The BMW's
46:31
secure, it's in our facility, like it's
46:33
not going anywhere. So they finally
46:35
get back to it a couple days later. And
46:38
as they're searching that, sitting on the floorboard
46:41
in a garbage bag inside of a, I
46:43
think it was like a Dorito bag, we
46:45
end up finding all of Stacy's
46:48
fingers.
46:48
On the floorboards of the BMW?
46:51
Correct. Oh boy.
46:52
I should also add that we also
46:54
had confirmed Stacy's identity
46:57
based off of her palm prints. By
46:59
that point, I had already identified her, but
47:01
they were able to confirm her identity through
47:04
those palm prints. So detectives
47:06
do try and go talk to Johnny at one point
47:08
up at the hospital. Johnny
47:11
decided to just kind of play games, ignored
47:13
anything they would ask, and say that
47:15
he was in a lot of pain, and he needed to
47:17
go to the bathroom, and all
47:20
these things. And so it just
47:22
got to the point where they just gave up. So
47:24
they leave. A few days later,
47:27
Johnny gets released from the hospital, and
47:29
he gets escorted by our deputies out to the
47:31
jail. And before getting lodged
47:33
into the jail, the detectives take another shot
47:35
at interviewing Johnny.
47:37
So this time, Johnny actually talks,
47:40
and Johnny's story is that
47:42
he had loaned his car to his friend,
47:45
Jeff, the original caller, and
47:48
that Jeff was supposed to be doing some work
47:50
on Johnny's car, and that
47:52
it must have been Jeff that parked the car there,
47:55
because Johnny didn't do it, and he hasn't
47:57
seen his car since he left it at Jeff's
47:59
place.
47:59
So Johnny's really trying to shift the
48:02
blame here on to Jeff
48:04
that Jeff's our guy.
48:06
So, of course, we do our due diligence.
48:08
We do some background on Jeff. We
48:11
talk to friends. Turns out Jeff was off
48:13
camping somewhere and
48:16
has several friends that
48:18
backed his story and everything else. So we're confident
48:20
Jeff's not our guy. And it's interesting.
48:22
This is just more work that detectives
48:25
have to do, because at trial,
48:28
the defense is going to be like, well, you
48:30
didn't even check into this guy. You didn't do this. You
48:33
do so much extra work just proving that
48:35
somebody didn't do something.
48:36
In addition to the work you've done to prove
48:39
that the suspect, in this case, it's Johnny,
48:42
did do something.
48:43
That is correct.
48:44
So that was pretty much Johnny's statement.
48:47
He ultimately ended up asking for an attorney
48:49
and that ended that interview. So one
48:52
of the leads that gets developed in
48:54
all of our interviews is that
48:57
a gentleman by the name of Henry may
48:59
be involved or may have
49:02
some information. So we send
49:04
some detectives out to go talk to Henry. Henry's
49:06
kind of a usual suspect for
49:09
us, kind of seems to find his way into a lot
49:11
of stuff. They go out, they
49:13
talk to Henry, and we learn from Henry that
49:15
Stacy is like a little sister
49:18
to Henry. He's very close
49:20
to her. They grew up together,
49:23
went to school together, have been very
49:25
tight growing up. Henry
49:27
was pretty shaken by
49:30
what had happened to Stacy. So, but what
49:32
Henry sheds to this story is
49:34
that he and his girlfriend
49:37
were hanging out at a casino one
49:39
night, which happens to be the same
49:41
night that Stacy had
49:43
checked into the motel and left. So
49:47
he says in the early morning hours, he
49:49
gets a call from Johnny. And Johnny's
49:52
asking for a favor. Henry also
49:55
grew up around Johnny, so they know
49:57
each other and they all went
49:59
to work. school together. So Johnny
50:02
asks Henry to come over to the house,
50:05
but he doesn't want Henry to pull up to the driveway.
50:07
He wants him to park at this park
50:09
behind the house, walk up through the green
50:12
space that runs up behind Johnny's house, and
50:15
come up to the house. Well, Henry
50:17
being savvy as he is, like, this
50:20
is weird and kind of gets the feeling
50:22
like he's getting set up. So
50:25
he says no, and finally Johnny
50:27
clues him in, like, look, I just want you to go and get
50:30
Stacy's stuff from the motel. She
50:32
left all her stuff there. Can you go
50:34
get her stuff from the motel room and
50:37
I'll pay you 50 bucks. Henry's
50:39
like, okay,
50:41
well, I need the money for gas. I'll
50:43
leave the 50 bucks under the doormat. So
50:46
Henry goes to Johnny's house. He
50:48
and his girlfriend go to Johnny's house. They
50:50
retrieve the 50 bucks from under the doormat.
50:53
They proceed to go play some video poker with it.
50:55
They don't get gas?
50:56
I don't know if they got gas or not, but they definitely
50:58
went to go play video poker. You can turn
51:00
your 50 into 3000 just
51:02
like that for investment purposes. So
51:06
Johnny had left the $50 and the room
51:08
key for Stacy's room
51:10
under the doormat. So Henry
51:12
and his girlfriend ultimately make it to the motel
51:15
room. Henry goes up to Stacy's
51:17
room and when he opens the door, he
51:19
sees that the receipt for the room
51:21
had been slid up underneath the door. And
51:25
she's got a couple bags there, which
51:26
he gathers up,
51:28
takes them down to the car. They
51:30
then tool around for
51:32
a few hours and finally
51:34
end up making their way back to Johnny's house
51:37
where they leave Stacy's belongings on the
51:39
front doorstep. And Johnny
51:42
had left him another 50 bucks underneath the doormat
51:45
as agreed upon. So Henry
51:47
gets 100 bucks basically to go and retrieve
51:50
Stacy's belongings from the motel room
51:52
and deliver them to Johnny's house. So that
51:54
was the extent really of Henry's involvement
51:57
in this.
51:58
We really questioned that. We looked into.
51:59
that intensely as
52:02
to whether Henry could actually be involved
52:05
in this, you know, whether it was the two of them or not.
52:07
We scoured that very thoroughly
52:10
and we don't see any link there whatsoever.
52:12
And this is yet another example
52:15
of all the work you have to do to run
52:17
down every lead because
52:20
we could assume Johnny killed Stacy from
52:22
what we know so far, but you have to convince
52:24
a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. Henry
52:27
could be a loose end. Jeff could be a
52:29
loose end. There's the unaccounted
52:31
for time when Stacy wanders
52:33
away from the motel after midnight and
52:35
isn't seen again. Brad and his detectives
52:38
have to show they've run down every possible
52:40
suspect and scenario.
52:42
Due diligence. Exactly.
52:44
So when forensics had searched
52:46
the car and they found Stacy's fingers,
52:49
well, they also found a receipt in the car for
52:52
a local store. And
52:54
on that receipt is the purchase of
52:56
a 51 inch bear and
52:59
lawn and leaf bags. So
53:02
detectives go out to the store and
53:05
obtain the store video. In that
53:07
video, you can clearly see Johnny walking
53:09
into the store, walking down the aisles,
53:13
and he grabs this bear and he
53:15
drags it around the store, goes
53:17
over, buys the lawn and leaf bags. And
53:20
it's funny because Johnny's wearing gloves this entire
53:22
time. And one way we
53:24
were able to bolster our idea
53:26
that this was Johnny is that the
53:28
sweatshirt he was wearing, when we went back
53:31
and looked at Johnny's last booking
53:33
photo in our jail, he's wearing the exact
53:35
same sweatshirt. Got the same design on
53:37
the front and everything.
53:38
Brad, when you say Johnny was wearing
53:40
gloves in the store dragging the bear around, are they
53:42
like surgical gloves or are they
53:45
winter gloves?
53:46
Well, we can't tell. They're black
53:48
gloves. They look like latex
53:50
gloves to me, but they could be maybe
53:53
like a leather glove or something. I'm not really sure.
53:55
You know, and it's interesting. I'm kind
53:58
of going over different.
55:39
and
56:01
they'll run afoul of a shady defense
56:03
attorney. Trust me, you don't
56:05
want to miss a minute of part two. In
56:07
the meantime, please stay safe out there. Remember,
56:11
you guys are the best fans in the podcast
56:13
universe, and we'll see you here next week for
56:16
the conclusion of No Such
56:19
Thing as Closure.
56:25
Small Town Dicks is produced by Gary
56:27
Scott and me, Yardley Smith. And
56:30
co-produced by detectives Dan and
56:32
Dave. Our production manager
56:34
is Logan Heftel. Our senior
56:36
editor is Sorin Vasion. And
56:39
our editor is Christina Bracamontes.
56:42
Our associate producers are Aaron Gaynor
56:44
and The Real Nick Smitty. Our social
56:46
media is run by the one and
56:48
only Monica Scott. Our music
56:51
is composed by John Forrest. And
56:53
our books are cooked and cats wrangled
56:55
by Ben Cornwell. If you like
56:57
what you hear and want to stay up to date with the show,
56:59
visit us on our website at smalltowndicks.com.
57:04
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57:11
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57:15
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57:55
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