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everybody and welcome back to Small

3:23

Town Murder Express. Yay choo choo!

3:25

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed.

3:27

My name is James Petrogal. I'm

3:30

here with my co-host. Great,

3:32

I'm Jimmy Wisman. There you go. He almost

3:34

forgot. He almost lost you there for a

3:36

second. Thank you folks so much

3:38

for joining us all aboard the murder train.

3:41

Here it is. We got some wild stuff

3:43

today. Just a crazy guy with doing some

3:45

crazy stuff. So we will get to that

3:47

very quickly. First off, shut up and give

3:50

me murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows.

3:52

If you're listening to this in early release,

3:55

like right when it comes out, you can

3:57

still get to either Sacramento or San Francisco.

4:00

San Francisco the next night more likely. If

4:03

you're listening to it regular, then don't worry about those

4:05

shows. They're already over, but you want to strap in

4:07

and get ready for the 4.20

4:09

virtual live show. It's going. April the 20th, it's a

4:12

Saturday night, and you can get it for two weeks

4:14

after that. You can watch it a hundred times. You

4:16

can do whatever you want with it. Just

4:18

like a live show, except you're in your

4:20

living room anywhere in the world. We have

4:22

these weird costumes because we're doing a whole

4:24

4.20 theme thing. I have a weird smoking

4:27

apparatus for Jimmy to get freaked out by.

4:29

It's gonna be so much fun. Shut up

4:31

and give me murder.com is where you get

4:33

all of that. Then also patreon.com slash

4:36

crime in sports, which is the name of

4:38

our other podcast that you should be listening

4:40

to because it's great. You don't have to

4:42

like sports. Check it out. Crime in sports.

4:44

Also check out your stupid opinions. Oh! Or

4:46

other podcasts, which is the funniest hour that

4:48

exists in podcasts. So check that out. But

4:51

Patreon, anybody $5 a month or above,

4:53

you are gonna get the whole back

4:55

catalog, hundreds of episodes, immediately. New episodes

4:58

every other week. This week, we're gonna

5:00

talk about for crime in sports on

5:02

Patreon. The trials and tribulations of Hulk

5:04

Hogan. Hulk Hogan. We've all heard of

5:07

Hulk Hogan. His kid killed

5:09

people. He called people the n-word. He's got... He

5:12

sued Gawker for a hundred million dollars. His

5:15

best friend recorded him and sold his sex

5:17

tape. He's had a weird life. We'll talk

5:19

all about that stuff. Then for small-town burger...

5:21

Burger? Small-town burger. Small-town burger. Small-town murder. Back

5:24

by popular demand, we are gonna do small...

5:26

weird small-town festivals because those are so much

5:28

fun. It's been a long time since we've

5:30

done one because they're a real pain in

5:32

the ass to put together, but we're doing

5:34

it this week. It doesn't

5:36

matter. I'm gonna do it there. That's patreon.com/crime

5:38

in sports and you get a shout out

5:40

at the end of the regular show. That's

5:43

sad. I think it's time everybody. Yeah. I think

5:45

it's time to sit back. What do you say

5:47

people? Let's settle in. Let's all clear the

5:50

lungs, arms to the sky and let's all

5:52

shout. SHUT

5:55

UP AND GIVE ME MURDER!

5:59

Let's do this. this. What do you

6:01

say everybody? Let's go on a trip, shall

6:03

we? Let's do it. Let's get in the

6:05

car, Jimmy. We're headed this week to Woodward,

6:07

Oklahoma. Woodward? Woodward,

6:09

Oklahoma. This is

6:11

in western Oklahoma. It is the

6:14

county right before the panhandle starts.

6:17

So if you kept driving, you go right

6:19

into that Oklahoma panhandle there. They don't want

6:21

to say that part of that panhandle. No,

6:23

but they are. They're close enough. It's close

6:25

enough. And based on the behavior of this

6:28

man, there's the panhandle behavior, in this area,

6:30

boy. So this is about two

6:32

hours and 15 minutes to Oklahoma City. It's

6:35

about four and a half hours to

6:37

Gans, Oklahoma, which was our last Oklahoma

6:39

episode, episode 435, laughing, torture, and lies,

6:41

which that was a wild one. Oklahoma

6:44

always has crazy murders. This is the

6:46

home of Phillips, Oklahoma, which

6:48

is one of the craziest cases

6:50

we've ever done ever. Episode 60

6:53

or 61 something. It's insane. Check

6:55

that out. This is Woodward County,

6:58

Oklahoma. The household income here, median

7:00

household income is about $50,000 per

7:02

year, which

7:05

is less than the national average by about 20,000.

7:08

Median home price though, super low, $143,600.

7:12

Now you're talking. That's a lot. And the

7:15

motto here, energy for life. Yeah.

7:17

Yeah. It comes from the sky

7:20

in a twisty fashion. Yeah.

7:22

If we have something to capture

7:24

that power, we'll get it. Yeah.

7:27

Power homes have wings. All

7:29

of they should be easier. That's what we do.

7:31

Rather than build them more sturdy and closer to

7:33

the ground and all that, just put wings on

7:36

them. Just make them aviation.

7:38

And make property just like a shifting thing.

7:41

You know what I mean? Like wherever, if

7:43

you land somewhere, that's yours now. And if

7:45

somebody landed on your lawn, that's theirs now.

7:47

And it's fine. Reclaimable. Yeah. It'll be fun. You know

7:49

what? Then it'll be like, oh, it's an adventure. Where

7:51

are we going to end up, kids? What school district

7:53

are we going to end up in? A good one?

7:56

Let's talk. Fingers crossed. We might get a nice one.

7:58

We might get a better one. might

8:00

get a better neighborhood. I

8:02

bet they have better lunches over there. Oh

8:04

shit, the city of Woodward was established in

8:06

1887. Yeah. This was at

8:09

the junction of the Fort

8:11

Reno military road and the

8:14

southern Kansas railway. By

8:16

the military road and the railroad?

8:18

The railway on the south bank

8:20

of the North Canadian River, which

8:22

is nowhere near Canada or the

8:24

north. I don't understand any of this.

8:28

So it became a big place to

8:30

load cattle to be sent to eastern

8:32

markets from all around there.

8:34

Here Woodward has served as the

8:37

county seat of Woodward County. In

8:39

1893, it was known

8:42

as one of the wildest towns in the West. Wildest.

8:45

Wildest. At one time, this is a small

8:47

place that had 23 saloons and 15 brothels

8:51

on one street. Tombstone

8:53

existed. Nowhere near this much.

8:55

And this place is it.

8:59

23 saloons and 15 brothels. This is

9:01

it. Because Deadwood's like we're a mining

9:04

town. We also want to people want

9:06

to drink and have brothels. This is

9:08

where this is. This is we drink

9:10

and sell women here. That's our nothing.

9:12

That's the industry. That's it. One

9:17

resident said in 1944 that

9:19

Woodward's eastern aggressiveness and Western

9:21

hospitality combined to enthrall you

9:23

with the fact that, quote,

9:25

Woodward is the town you've

9:27

been wishing for, dreaming of,

9:29

and looking for. The

9:31

town is a grudge fuck. That's what it

9:34

is. Yeah, you're gonna get that. You're gonna

9:36

get it lacking. Big fuck. So

9:39

reviews of this town. Let's find out what other

9:41

people think. Five stars. I love

9:43

living in Woodward. I mean, it's definitely a

9:45

small town compared to Enid or OKC. Well,

9:47

if you're gonna throw Enid in the mix,

9:49

obviously. No, who's bigger than

9:52

Enid? Yeah. But that's

9:54

what I love about it. I love that

9:56

we started having events on Main Street. I

9:58

love all the little shops. downtown. They're

10:00

owned by some really good people. Are

10:03

they? I bet they are. That's great. Three

10:06

stars. This is, or two stars, this is

10:08

a long one so I'm gonna skip around

10:10

here. Where I am from

10:12

is perhaps one of the hottest spots in the

10:14

nation as far as drug trafficking goes. Oh!

10:17

I doubt that. There is a San

10:19

Diego, so I've calmed down. Yeah, a

10:21

few years back many of the police

10:23

were involved in a scandal where many

10:25

of them were smuggling drugs and firearms

10:28

back into the street from the evidence

10:30

locker. That's because they make $38,000 a

10:32

year and live in a small town.

10:34

Yeah, that's not one of the hottest

10:37

spots. Via the evidence locker, that's your

10:39

that's your fucking haul? This gets better.

10:41

Yeah, well they did that in the

10:44

70s. They sold all the the pizza

10:46

connection heroin, pounds and pounds of heroin, when

10:48

they went back to look at it years later,

10:50

it was all flour. Cops had stolen it and

10:52

sold it all. That's what they do. It's normal.

10:55

But it's not a fucking,

10:57

it's not Fort Knox of heroin.

10:59

You know what I mean? Eventually

11:01

that runs out. Yeah,

11:03

but while it's there you can always get

11:05

more. You bust people with more? They're gonna

11:07

sell it to somebody. This person says, my

11:09

father, who's a local attorney, had shown great

11:11

concern over this matter, which others tended to

11:13

ignore. Our house was set

11:15

afire. Jesus!

11:19

And calls were made to our house giving death

11:21

threats to my father and myself. Holy

11:25

shit! That's wild. When our house was set

11:27

afire, we were returning home from a football

11:29

scrimmage of mine and we were able to

11:31

put out the fire after we called 911.

11:35

Holy shit! That same year our house was

11:37

broken into numerous times and my father taught

11:39

me to be vigilant and aware of my

11:41

surroundings at all times. At this

11:43

at this point in my young teenage life,

11:46

the last thing I wanted to worry about

11:48

was police in my hometown, who I had

11:50

never done any harm to, wanted to now

11:52

hurt me and my family. Holy

11:55

shit, man. That is wild. And then

11:57

finally, two stars, Small oil-driven

11:59

town. That isn't seeing It's best days

12:01

of Quality of Life in recent years. Deaths.

12:05

The out with declining found was a

12:07

lot of your ah things to do

12:09

here. okay I'll mail about it. Well

12:11

I found something to do The sand

12:14

The Plum Festival. Sand. Flops.

12:16

Why the fuck I love aplomb. I love upon

12:18

their juicy. They're delicious. Why the fuck would you

12:20

put the word sand in there? Which now makes

12:22

it sound like they're sand and it. And it's

12:24

not dry and delicious. It's. Really

12:27

stupid San plums and coal apples and

12:29

gallon a nice coal apple I like

12:31

a dirt tater he likes them. entertainers

12:33

is is full of their and about

12:35

it opened dirt comes out side I'm

12:37

berries who they're as a beginner as

12:40

got buried or that's a significant at

12:42

this fucking gross I like it is

12:44

mel and law for you open it

12:46

it's pretty disgusting. it smells like bleach

12:48

and are they but it is just

12:50

delicious and that a lot of feeds

12:52

you wouldn't be think there was more

12:54

seeds in there. but see this season

12:56

so is. His all seed real saw the

12:58

see? how does that not as we're. Who

13:03

says celebrate the sweet flavor of

13:05

the Sam plummet? The sand prolonged

13:07

celebration here. I'm a competitor. A

13:09

column every competition, pageant races all

13:12

in celebration of this native fruit.

13:14

Now. There's. I after the

13:16

races the Slack A Sand Plums

13:19

Scoot, Five K and Ten K

13:21

sampling scoops. After the races stop

13:23

in to see the Miss San

13:25

Plum pageants That's a to on

13:28

be I Miss San Plumps judge

13:30

Some girls were entrance of all

13:32

ages compete to be named Miss

13:34

San Plum Queen and Miss Sam

13:37

Plum Princess. Quilters can

13:39

choose to answer their latest raisins as

13:41

well. And. Run a quilt

13:43

competition obvious that the other and also you're

13:45

going to see there's some bands here who

13:48

is out here. Let's.

13:50

See the quilt show. Gotta get there for

13:52

the quilt showcase. Looks like it's all good.

13:54

It's. all gonna in a common

13:56

a pair of at seven o'clock with

13:58

dax perry a concert Yeah. Dax

14:01

Perrier. He's a

14:03

big star. Mr. Sandplum over

14:05

there. So, that

14:08

said, let's talk about a murder now that we know

14:10

where we are. We're in a small, small

14:12

Western Oklahoma town. This is crazy podunk

14:14

America. Yeah, not a lot of people

14:16

here at all. It's very low. So

14:19

let's talk about this right now. Go

14:22

back to 1974. Oh my. For

14:24

this case. Okay. It's September of 1974.

14:29

Which so this is like the real

14:31

West back then. Yeah. It's

14:34

hot. I mean, it's a different time. It's

14:36

50 years ago, for Christ's sake. Let's

14:39

talk about the Thrasher family, just

14:41

like Thrasher, like the magazine. Mervin

14:44

Thrasher, he's the dad and the husband here.

14:46

He's 28 years old. He's

14:48

got a 27 year old wife named Sandra. Really?

14:52

He does. They

14:54

have two children. Now

14:57

one is five year old. I've seen

14:59

her listed as both five and seven.

15:01

I'm not sure. But more places say

15:03

five. So five year old Penelope goes

15:05

by Penny. So Penelope

15:07

Thrasher and little 18 month

15:09

old Robert Thrasher. So they have a nice little

15:11

family, a boy and a girl. I mean, it's

15:13

just, you know. She has the

15:16

last name. They're doing, and they're the

15:18

Thrashers man. We fucking Thrasher. Bad fucking

15:20

name. As of

15:22

late August, 74, they have only lived

15:24

in Woodward since January. They're new to

15:27

the area. He worked for

15:29

the Michigan, Wisconsin Pipeline Company, which

15:32

somehow has worked in Oklahoma. In Oklahoma. It

15:35

makes no sense. Gibran. Yeah,

15:38

maybe they're taking oil from here. I have no

15:40

idea how it's working. That's why it's energy for

15:42

life, because it's oil in those places. So

15:45

in late August, Mervyn

15:47

reports a rifle stolen from

15:50

his house. Oh shit.

15:52

Yeah, 22 rifles. Someone

15:54

entered the house during the day when nobody was

15:56

home and took the rifle and a few other

15:58

things that we'll talk about. about as well, especially

16:01

some silver dollars. Okay. Now,

16:05

so he's pissed off at that. He's like, I moved

16:07

to a fucking small town and I'm getting my shit

16:09

stolen. He had just got, he's been there less than

16:12

a year. You're already getting your house broken into what

16:14

kind of shit hole place is this? He's thinking. So

16:16

he reported the rifle stolen to the police, reported the

16:18

break-in and everything. So

16:20

September 2nd, 1974, he

16:23

there's, he's got his boss

16:25

at work named Bob Petit,

16:28

P-A-T-E-E. And I

16:30

guess he, this Bob

16:32

had called Melvin Thrasher to come to

16:34

work. First time he called him was

16:36

4.30 in the morning and told him to come on down

16:39

to work. If you

16:41

call me at 4.30 in the morning and ask

16:43

me to be anywhere, I'm going to crack up

16:45

hysterically and then hang up on you. Here's the

16:47

thing. I'm not answering at 4.30

16:49

in the morning. I might be up, but I'm about

16:51

to go to bed. So we'll

16:53

talk later. We will talk later. Melvin

16:56

though got up and went to work. Wow. To help

16:58

him. It was Labor Day weekend. So this is all

17:00

overtime. This isn't even, he doesn't even have to be

17:02

there. He's just saying, I need help. Will you come

17:04

in and help me? So he does. He

17:06

went to work and helped him repair an engine and then

17:08

came home again. Okay. So

17:10

he comes back home again. Then at

17:13

8 AM, he called again. My

17:15

Christ, I just got home. Come

17:17

on back here. So

17:20

Melvin told Bob that he couldn't come in for

17:22

a couple of hours. Yeah. You can't get there

17:24

right away. I got some shit going on here.

17:26

I'm tired. Between 5 and 8 AM, some stuff

17:28

came up. Remember I was

17:31

working earlier with the end? I've already been there

17:33

at 4.30. He never

17:35

shows back. It never shows up though. But

17:37

it's Labor Day weekend and

17:39

the employees are not required

17:41

to work overtime. So

17:44

he's asking a lot of people to come in and they're

17:46

like, not coming in or maybe I'll come in and they

17:48

don't, they don't have to be there. So Bob

17:50

said he didn't find it particularly unusual that he didn't show

17:53

up. He was like, I don't know. He didn't have

17:55

to be there. So he

17:57

does find it unusual though, when Melvin doesn't

17:59

show up. up for work the next day. Oh,

18:02

where the fuck is he? It's it's work day

18:04

now. Um, so he also

18:06

calls and no one answers the phone.

18:09

Yeah. It was like, okay, if Bob's not, or

18:11

if Melvin's not at work, he

18:13

should be at home and he's not answering the phone. So

18:16

Bob decides to after

18:18

work that night, he's going to stop by their house

18:20

and make sure he's okay.

18:22

The boss just pops by. Pops,

18:24

but calls it four 30 in the

18:26

morning or just pops by, which seems

18:28

way intrusive, way intrusive. And

18:31

he, he doesn't get there until 10 30 PM. Jesus.

18:35

He's working all day. He's working all fucking day.

18:37

Yeah. That's crazy. And at the same time, you're

18:39

going to go knock on someone's door as an

18:41

18 month old at fucking 10 30

18:43

PM. Are you out of

18:45

your mind after you've worked for fucking at least

18:47

16 hours? Um, yeah. Imagine

18:49

they just got the kids to bed. You knocked

18:52

on the door, the dog barks, the kids are

18:54

up. That guy's wife is going to stab you

18:56

in the face. And I'm quitting those. Yeah. I'm

18:58

going to be like, Bob, what the fuck bro?

19:00

Jesus Christ. We're not, we're not brothers

19:03

dude. Yeah. Have a relationship

19:05

that's equivalent here. This is crazy. Yeah. I'm fucking,

19:07

I didn't show up either fire me or I'll

19:09

be there the next day. What do you want

19:12

from me? Like this isn't, you don't get to

19:14

investigate it. So he does this.

19:16

This is September 3rd, 1974. And

19:19

the house is dark. It's all dark in there, which it's 10

19:21

30 at night. You got a guy that's ready

19:23

to go to work at four 30 in the morning that seems normal.

19:26

This guy gets a flashlight out.

19:30

Yeah. Think about this. He's not home. He's

19:32

looking in my window. Looking in your windows

19:34

with a flashlight now. No.

19:37

This isn't, yeah, this is too much for

19:39

a boss to be doing. Looking through

19:41

the windows. And then he sees Mrs. Thrasher,

19:45

Sandra lying on the floor. And

19:48

he goes, uh-oh, that's not good. Lying

19:51

on the floor. You deserve this, Bob. This

19:53

is the opposite of minding your own business.

19:55

You couldn't be. You earned this. You

19:58

sought this out hardcore. You

20:01

like really fucking wanted this bad. You

20:03

looked for the monster

20:05

and you found it. You said I'm gonna go

20:07

see if they're all dead. That's what you said.

20:09

Maybe they're all dead and I'll find their bodies.

20:11

Why else would he not be there? You should

20:13

have showed up on Tuesday, Bob, and called the

20:15

police and said I've got a missing man and

20:17

he hasn't answered his phone at all. Let them

20:20

go knock on the fucking door. That's all. He's

20:22

missing. Can't get a hold of him. They go

20:24

put their flashlights through the door and that's their

20:26

job. This guy goes I'm gonna look into it

20:28

myself. So the investigation,

20:30

he goes right to the police, this guy,

20:33

and they come over. The cops come over. He said

20:35

I think I saw my employee's wife dead on the

20:37

floor. So you might want to go look into this

20:40

shit. So they do. They come over. That's

20:43

the thing too. I've been there. He

20:48

does that. The cops come into

20:50

the house and right

20:52

away they find both Melvin and Sandra

20:55

lying face down on the bedroom floor.

20:57

This guy was looking in a dark

20:59

bedroom with a flashlight in

21:01

the bedroom. What if she was sucking him off

21:03

at the time? Right. I can't go down with

21:05

my fucking wife in my own house without you

21:07

going get out of here, Bob. Cool

21:11

looks and people. Or even worse, bedrooms. Yeah.

21:13

What if you catch me and I

21:15

like foxtail butt blood? Yeah. I like that

21:18

you're stupid opinions. Now what? Now

21:20

I gotta show up on the job site and you know that?

21:22

I don't want you knowing that. First sticking out

21:24

of my butthole. I don't need you

21:27

to do that, Bob. Don't look at my bedroom window. Licking

21:29

my wife's asshole, you son of a bitch.

21:31

Either I'm dead and it's none of your

21:33

concern. Or I've got a

21:36

foxtail butt plug. I'm jerking off eating my wife's

21:38

ass. I'm doing some private shit. I'm not in

21:40

your concern. I'm doing some private

21:42

shit. Do you understand? Okay,

21:45

Bob. I'm into pegging. Are you happy with that?

21:47

Did you want to know that, Bob? Did you

21:49

want to know that I have my wife ram

21:51

things up my ass? No, you didn't, Bob, but

21:53

now you do. I hope you see this every

21:55

time you blink for the rest of your life.

21:57

That's it. I hope you see it all. Me

22:00

making eye contact with you through the fucking

22:02

window. Flipping you off, you son of a

22:04

bitch. But no, they're both dead

22:07

in there, so it's actually good that he did

22:09

this. We're making fun, but honestly it's good. They're

22:11

both lying face down on the bedroom floor. Mervin's

22:17

feet were tied together,

22:20

and his hands were bound behind

22:22

his back as well. Oh no. Yeah, he'd

22:24

been shot in the head three times. Jesus.

22:28

Yeah, this is... That's a lot. You better show

22:30

up for work next time, motherfucker. This is setting

22:32

an example. Bob's

22:34

fucking pissed. We don't miss shifts around

22:36

here, boy. This is... Wow. Make me

22:39

work 16 hours today alone.

22:41

Fuck that. Sandra was

22:43

also tied up with hands

22:46

tied and also feet tied, but her feet were

22:48

pulled up and tied to her hands. The hog

22:50

tied. Oh, damn it. So she was

22:52

hog tied. She'd been shot twice in

22:55

the head. Okay. Okay.

22:58

They figured out based on the scene that

23:01

Mervin and Sandra were

23:03

bound back to back in chairs before they

23:05

were shot. Wow. They got shot and fell

23:07

out of the chairs. Yeah. They were... That's

23:10

crazy. That's grimy, man. That's some grimy

23:12

fucking shit, man. Dark. But

23:16

Bob says they have two kids. Where are the

23:18

kids? Yeah. So

23:21

now the cops have to go through the rest of the house, and

23:24

the kids are both in the same room in bunk

23:26

beds. Oh, no. And they both

23:28

have been murdered also. What the

23:30

fuck? In their fucking beds. Yeah.

23:34

This is worse than in cold blood. It's

23:36

fucking... Oh, it's way worse than in cold blood.

23:38

Way worse. Yeah. They didn't indiscriminately kill an 18-month-old

23:40

baby there. Wow. What they did here. 18-month-old

23:43

shot twice in the head. Twice.

23:45

Twice, and five-year-old poor little Penelope in

23:48

the upper bed of the bunk shot

23:50

three times in the head. Wow.

23:54

That's fucking... All you can hope is that they

23:56

were sleeping and didn't know that this was happening, and

23:58

just never woke up. But that's fucking... horrific.

24:01

That's horrific. That's 10 shots. Yeah. They heard it,

24:03

right? They had to have heard it, I would

24:05

think. If someone heard something, I would hope. But

24:07

we do tons of stories where kids

24:09

don't wake up through gunfire. Yeah. How many

24:12

stories have we done? 10s a lot. 10s

24:15

a lot. But the problem is too, it was

24:17

with a 22. Yeah. Which

24:19

are not allowed as to fucking guns either. It's not

24:22

like a .357. It's still

24:24

a loud pot, but who knows? The

24:26

murder weapon here is not on

24:28

the scene either. There's no 22 on the scene. They

24:32

find shell casings in

24:34

the bedroom, though.

24:36

They match that with shell casings

24:38

that they found in the yard

24:40

of the Thrasher's old house they

24:43

were doing target practice with. So they match

24:45

those together. It's their own gun. Oh,

24:48

my god. So whoever broke in a week

24:50

ago and stole their gun, came back and

24:52

murdered them all with it. With the gun.

24:54

With the fucking gun. What the fuck? That

24:56

is disturbing. That was in Guymon,

24:58

Oklahoma, their old house. They

25:00

said all four were fully clothed, but

25:03

there were indications that

25:05

Sandra had been raped as well.

25:07

Yeah, of course. This is

25:09

disturbing as fuck. The worst. The

25:12

state crime bureau put up roadblocks all

25:14

around the town, and through the night,

25:16

they searched every vehicle coming out of

25:18

town for everybody on the

25:21

road. Get the fuck out of the car

25:23

looking for guns, looking for blood, looking for

25:25

anything. This was not civil

25:27

liberties be damned there. This is like, we've

25:29

had a small town slaughter here. This is

25:31

fucked. There's a 10 month old dead. Get

25:33

out of your car. Yeah. Get the fuck

25:35

out now. Don't care. That

25:38

is very, very disturbing. So the

25:41

state's medical examiner said during the autopsies

25:43

that all four died of gunshot wounds,

25:45

obviously to the head. The

25:48

daughter sustained three wounds,

25:50

Sandra two wounds, 18 month old Robert was

25:52

shot in the tip of his nose and

25:54

in the base of his head. Fucking

25:57

disgusting, man. They hear Here's

26:00

a weird thing. Mrs. Thrasher, Sandra

26:02

was still wearing her diamond ring when

26:04

they found her. No theft, huh? And

26:06

all sorts of other family valuables are

26:08

found in the house and accounted for.

26:10

Jewelry box, not rifle. They

26:12

just hated. Nothing. Hated.

26:15

Yeah, this is...you better show up for your shift, motherfucker. I'm

26:17

telling you. This is all Bob, man. I've

26:20

picked three diesel engines today alone. So

26:23

yeah, the officials and everybody in town, they

26:25

just moved there. They haven't had time to

26:27

make any fucking enemies. Yeah. They

26:29

just got here and they said they knew

26:32

no reason. They were described as a nice

26:34

church-going family. There's no enemies. They don't do

26:36

anything. They don't do drugs. They don't... Jesus

26:38

Christ. They're not in a satanic sex-slinger cult.

26:40

They have nothing going on. So

26:43

they decide someone

26:46

they'd like to talk to that might know

26:48

something. And that is a young man named

26:50

Bobby Wayne Collins. Another Bob. Fucking

26:53

Wayne. Bobby Wayne. See, middle

26:55

name Wayne. Bobby Wayne Collins is 19

26:58

years old. What's he doing? Very

27:00

young guy. Well, he's a jerk-off. He's

27:02

from Ardmore, Oklahoma, and he works at

27:04

the 24-hour gas station slash truck stop.

27:06

That's what he does. And Mervyn was

27:08

a customer there. Mervyn would have get

27:11

his gas there all the time. So

27:13

they knew each other. He and Mervyn

27:15

did. They decided to talk to

27:17

Bobby for a very specific reason here, by the

27:19

way. How do you pick this guy out of

27:21

your ass to talk to? Well,

27:23

the undersheriff Donnie Crane said

27:26

he investigated a burglary at Thrasher

27:28

home on August 28th and

27:30

a rifle and a number

27:32

of Eisenhower silver dollars were among the

27:35

items missing. These are before the JFK.

27:37

Oh, the JFK was 50 cent pieces.

27:39

That's right. JFK is 50 cent. The

27:41

silver dollar is now Sacagawea. Yeah. Yeah.

27:43

It was Eisenhower there. So they

27:46

said that two people who worked

27:48

with Collins at the service station,

27:50

truck stop, said that they were

27:53

involved, that he was involved in

27:55

some coin transactions with them on

27:57

August 29th. He had- silver

28:00

dollars. Won

28:03

a Klein Beverly line, that's a guy,

28:06

said that he gave Collins three

28:09

greenbacks for three silver dollars. He

28:11

traded them three greenbacks like it's

28:14

the Civil War. I

28:16

traded him some script for his ... I

28:19

traded him a few clams, you know what

28:22

I mean? Wow. I traded

28:24

him three bones. And Eva McDowell, who's a

28:26

cashier at the truck stop where he works,

28:28

said her and her husband sold him, Collins,

28:31

a 1960 car,

28:34

and he gave her six silver dollars

28:36

as a down payment. How

28:40

much did that car cost for six dollars as

28:42

a down payment on it? How

28:45

much? What the fuck is happening?

28:48

He bought six silver dollars and a little

28:50

bit of bread. Actual bread,

28:52

not even bread. Actual bread, not even bread.

28:54

Not greenbacks either. Bread. Wonder

28:57

bread to be exact. So they

28:59

said, well, that was odd. They said, did he have

29:01

like before in the past, has he been around with

29:04

silver dollars all the time? They said, never

29:06

saw him with a silver dollar before, now he's just paying

29:08

for everything in silver dollars. Okay. Weird.

29:11

Also, they look at his record and they go,

29:13

oh my, okay. His record

29:15

really paints this picture here. Social

29:18

workers and parents and psychologists all agreed

29:20

that he had problems. Bailey,

29:23

they found out that when he went to prison for

29:25

the first time. He's 19, by the

29:27

way. Oh, but for the first time. He

29:30

was sentenced in 1971. This

29:32

is three years ago. When he was 16,

29:34

he was sentenced to three years in prison.

29:37

For what? Why, you may ask

29:40

as you did, attempting to rape

29:42

a 69-year-old woman. A

29:44

16-year-old woman. A

29:46

16-year-old boy attempted to rape a 69-year-old woman.

29:50

Oh my. Which is, wow.

29:53

I don't even know. In the 70s, they looked

29:55

69. In 1971. Yeah,

29:57

oh Christ, she probably looked 100. looks

30:00

great. She can look, she could work out, she could

30:02

be together. Back then a 69 year old, you're

30:05

like, why aren't you dead yet? They were

30:07

so old back then. That's crazy. Hey

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now back to the show. So,

33:11

yeah, he got sentenced for that. Shit.

33:14

The prosecutor who prosecuted

33:17

him at the time said that

33:19

when he was in prison, he was

33:21

mentally unstable. Everybody found out. And

33:24

that he was, quote, in great need of

33:26

psychiatric aid. That's the prosecutor that said that

33:28

after he went to prison. He

33:30

was to serve the maximum term of

33:33

the maximum term, which, by the way,

33:35

the maximum term would the last

33:38

day of incarceration would have been September 3rd, 1974.

33:43

He would have been in jail that day.

33:45

Could have done it. That was the day he would have still

33:47

been in prison. Or at a minimum,

33:49

July 24th, 1973, barring parole. He

33:55

waived parole consideration when the subject came up in 1972,

33:57

but the fact that he was in prison was

33:59

not a good thing. following December, he

34:01

was discharged from the state reformatory seven

34:05

months before the minimum expiration of

34:07

his sentence and nearly two years

34:09

before the maximum expiration. Wow. Yeah.

34:13

At that time, they looked at his background

34:15

and they did it as like a mercy

34:17

thing. Yeah. They said he did.

34:20

He's 16, set the time 17. He was

34:23

the product of a, he was very

34:25

poor, came from a

34:27

very poor home environment, they

34:29

said. Broken marriage, father gone,

34:32

quote, a promiscuous brother who bore

34:34

her last two children out of

34:37

wedlock. Oh. Oh, which is just

34:39

a single mom, but in 1971, she

34:42

was the biggest whore in six counties at

34:44

that point, if you fucking, God forbid. So,

34:47

and she also had this, some bad

34:49

emotional problems and mental issues and people

34:52

thought she needed help as well. A

34:55

local juvenile officer told

34:57

her that told

35:00

the mother that Bobby was arrested

35:02

for breaking into a neighbor's home and

35:05

trying to set fire to a bed

35:07

in which the neighbor was sleeping, currently.

35:10

When? When he was

35:12

like a teenager, 14. Jesus Christ. He

35:15

broke in and tried to burn a

35:17

person alive in their own bed. Trying

35:19

to barbecue a person. Can you,

35:22

and then two years later rapes an

35:24

old lady. Can you? Attempted. Attempted to

35:26

rape an old, I'm shit, that's close

35:28

enough. You know, he's on

35:30

track to just really be

35:32

a menace. Before 18, he's

35:34

doing that shit. Acceleration like nobody's

35:36

business. Wow. Holy shit. So, since

35:39

he got out of jail, he

35:41

bounced from job to job. He

35:44

had jobs. First, he tried to sell vacuum

35:46

cleaners. He couldn't,

35:49

he couldn't move a vacuum. Couldn't move a

35:51

vacuum. He couldn't, he couldn't remember to

35:53

bring a pocket full of dirt to dump on the floor.

35:55

He kept forgetting, kept fucking forgetting. He

35:57

couldn't do it. And

36:00

empty that mother. Yeah, there you go. Squeeze that

36:02

out. He

36:05

drove a delivery truck for a

36:07

while. That didn't work out. And then he

36:09

worked at a gas station. No. He couldn't

36:11

move things to places. Nope, couldn't do it

36:13

at all. Southern vacuum cleaners, driving

36:15

shit. And then he worked, got a job

36:17

at this gas station. In the summer of

36:19

74, he almost got married. He

36:21

was like a week away from marriage, but the

36:24

girl backed out. Imagine

36:27

the bullet she's done. Imagine her

36:29

after this whole thing going, wow,

36:31

holy shit. So

36:33

it was at that point in the summer that

36:36

Collins moved to Woodward. He's brand new here. That's

36:39

where he found another job pumping gas again

36:41

at the gas station. He

36:45

apparently used to like to burglarize

36:47

and steal shit, too. And on August

36:49

28, 1974, he burglarized the

36:52

home and he took the silver dollar. He took the

36:54

22 rifle. It's

36:57

amazing though. Yes, September 3rd would have been his

36:59

maximum term. So if he stayed for the maximum,

37:01

he wouldn't even have been out to be able

37:03

to do that that day. Yeah, it would have

37:05

taken a few more months for these people to

37:07

die. Yeah, absolutely. Or somebody else would have got

37:09

killed. So they said he

37:11

had, at the time they were saying, well, he

37:13

has no police record. In Woodward, he had no

37:16

record. Then they looked out further and they went,

37:18

oh my God, Jesus Christ. It gets way worse.

37:20

This is exactly the guy we're looking for, a

37:22

guy with priors like this, breaking into people's houses

37:24

and attempting to commit violence upon them. That's what

37:27

we have here. He had his Asper's on fire.

37:29

Yup, that's fucking

37:31

wild, man. So

37:34

the other thing is, in 1974, so

37:39

we got the rape that he attempted rape he

37:41

went to jail for. Then we have, he tried

37:43

to burn a person alive in their bed. Then

37:46

he got arrested again in 1973

37:49

after he'd been released for

37:52

raping a lone Grove woman, a woman from

37:54

lone Grove for actual rape, not attempted rape.

37:57

He was acquitted by a jury in that case.

38:00

case in early 1974. He

38:03

was acquitted on rape charges. So he

38:06

is 19 fucking years old. He's

38:09

beaten a rape. He's gotten a rape.

38:12

He's got a murder. This guy's bad

38:14

news. He is a fucking nightmare. So

38:16

whoa. Now,

38:19

August 27th, six days before the crime took

38:21

place, he had borrowed a car from his

38:23

cousin and gone to Enid in an attempt

38:25

to find a job. The

38:27

cousin said, though, he didn't loan the car to him that

38:29

day. So I don't know what he's talking about because that's

38:31

his story. Bobby Wayne has said, on the 27th, I went

38:33

to Enid. And his

38:35

cousin said, I didn't loan him a fucking car that day. I don't

38:37

know what car he took. Maybe he just admitted

38:40

to Carthas. Well, no, he's saying it

38:42

was my cousin's car. And he said, no, I did go

38:44

to Enid. And on the way back from Enid, I picked

38:46

up a hitchhiker. His

38:48

name was Jerry, the hitchhiker. He

38:52

said, I learned that his last

38:54

name was Prowess, P-R-O-W-E-S-S, like having

38:56

a prowess for something, by

38:59

looking at the identification card on his backpack. Because

39:01

he had some kind of ID card on his

39:03

backpack. The hitchhiker asked to

39:05

spend the night at his house, which

39:08

Collins agreed to. Because that's

39:11

what I do. Not only give rides, I

39:13

go, hey, I'm also offer lodging to strangers.

39:15

Do rides stay over? Sure.

39:17

Wow. So this

39:19

is the crazy part, too. He

39:22

claims, Bobby claims he dropped the hitchhiker,

39:24

Jerry Prowess, off at his house, at

39:26

Bobby's house, and then brought his cousin's

39:28

car back to him, then went to

39:31

work at the truck stop, working the

39:33

night shift. That's a lot

39:35

of shit to do. He said, yeah, just go in

39:37

my house and live there. I won't be there, but

39:39

no problem, stranger. He said

39:41

the next morning he returned home, and

39:43

Jerry Prowess was gone. He's

39:45

gone. He said he just went

39:47

to sleep, Bobby did, but was awakened at noon

39:50

by Jerry Prowess, saying, hey,

39:52

man, quote, let's come with

39:55

me to go look at a house. He's

39:57

in the real estate market, possibly. He's now

39:59

buying. buying. So the two of

40:02

them went to a rural residence just outside of

40:04

town, went through the back door, which was unlocked.

40:06

This is a Thrasher residence in late

40:08

August. They stole a number of

40:10

items he admits, including a rifle, and then

40:13

started back to town. He

40:15

said they hid the rifle so they

40:17

wouldn't be seen walking through town with

40:19

it, obviously. You know, you don't walk

40:21

around town with a rifle. Yeah, so

40:23

that evening he said Prowis left and

40:25

took some of the stolen items, and

40:27

he said I never saw him again, including

40:30

the gun he took with him too. He had the .22.

40:34

So they said, well where were you on September 3rd? He

40:36

said, well I got off work at 6.30 a.m.

40:38

I just bought a car three days earlier,

40:40

as we know, a top-notch vehicle. He

40:44

said, and I immediately left town with

40:46

the intention of visiting my brother in

40:48

Canadian, Texas. Yeah. Sure,

40:51

it's Canadian or some shit, but it's

40:53

Canadian, Texas. Yeah. He said, though he

40:55

wasn't very familiar with Northwestern Oklahoma, so

40:57

he took a wrong turn and wound

41:00

up near the Kansas border, because

41:02

the Texas and Kansas borders aren't very far from

41:04

each other in this part of Oklahoma. They're real

41:07

close. He said, at that point, he just

41:09

said, ah, fuck going to Texas. I'll just go back to

41:11

Woodward. He just got lost, made a

41:13

big loop, and said, ah, screw it. So,

41:16

which is possible back then. It's a

41:18

bad story, though. It's

41:20

a terrible story. Terrible. You did

41:22

a six-hour circle on a whim?

41:26

He said he got back at about 9.15 a.m.

41:28

So he said, you know, he did like

41:30

a two and a half hour tour of

41:32

Western Oklahoma. He said, at that point,

41:34

9.15 a.m., he went to Gibson's discount

41:36

store and bought a pair of tennis shoes, a

41:40

pair of sneakers. Now, here's

41:42

the problem. The tread on these sneakers

41:44

matches the shoe prints found at the

41:47

crime scene. And that's fine. I just

41:49

bought them. But he said, I

41:51

have the price tag and

41:53

the receipt from when I

41:56

bought them, which was after this happened. I

41:58

didn't have them yet. I didn't have them. them yet

42:00

when that happened. The register tape didn't name

42:02

a specific item sold, but it did show

42:04

a sale with the same price as his

42:07

shoes from the shoe department. So it's probably

42:09

the shoes, and they're brand new. They

42:11

said the store didn't open until 8.55 a.m. that morning,

42:15

so the purchase would not have been made until after the

42:17

murders were thought to be committed. Here's

42:20

the problem I have with that though. When you say, oh,

42:22

well, and that's not a guilty thing. To me, how

42:25

many pairs of the same shoes do you have? Yeah.

42:28

That tells me, oh, boy, found that

42:30

shoe he loves. He likes those. Yeah.

42:32

How many pairs of Adidas, the classic

42:34

one, or the Puma suede, or Dunks

42:36

do it? Dunks, Jesus. They got like

42:38

six pairs. Same tread. That's what I

42:40

mean. And if you just murdered

42:42

a whole family and had blood all over

42:44

your fucking shoes that you liked, you might

42:46

go buy the same shoes so it doesn't

42:48

look suspicious that you have different shoes now

42:50

also. Yeah. Because he might have went right

42:52

there. So who knows? Now,

42:54

a statement, an agent from the Oklahoma

42:56

Bureau of Investigation assigned to that case,

42:59

he said that in the course of

43:01

the investigation, Bobby gave several

43:03

different and inconsistent statements after being informed

43:05

of his rights, of course. He

43:08

said at first he did not admit to

43:10

having participated in the burglary, saying Jerry

43:12

Prowess came back to his house on the

43:14

28th with cigarettes, a shaver, and a rifle,

43:17

and then that Prowess left on September 1st,

43:19

and that's the last time he saw him. Later

43:22

on, he admits, he said, okay, fine. I

43:24

took part in the burglary. I

43:27

did. He said, I- He was in that house. Yep.

43:29

He even said that he had gone to the

43:31

Thrasher home on the day of the murders, but

43:35

left the house before Jerry must have

43:37

done anything. Oh

43:39

my God. He then said

43:41

that Jerry Prowess threatened to kill him if

43:43

he told anyone, and that he just drove, after

43:45

all this, he drove Jerry to the edge, quote,

43:47

to the edge of town and let him out

43:50

of his car. And that was that. And

43:52

he's never seen or heard from Jerry Prowess again.

43:55

Funny thing is, neither is anyone else. This

43:58

guy doesn't exist. Yeah, of course not. He

44:00

described him as a bearded long-haired hitchhiker

44:03

named Jerry prowess and That's

44:05

what he said. He said that's I got this

44:07

guy. That's his description. You all

44:10

should you all should find him I

44:12

was fine Jerry. He's dangerous five nine

44:14

hundred seventy pounds mustache short beard shoulder

44:16

length brown hair Like everybody

44:18

else in 1974 Yeah,

44:24

then that one point out

44:26

of nowhere he's in the interrogation He's they broken

44:28

him down to like four different stories. I wasn't

44:31

there at all. I don't know anything. I was

44:33

there Oh shit, Jerry was there. Yeah, Jerry was

44:35

in the house. I was outside. I heard shots.

44:37

I dropped Jerry off I don't know nothing then

44:40

he says out of nowhere. He says quote I

44:42

can see them in my sleep at night He

44:46

says my god that little girl was still asleep.

44:48

Oh You

44:50

son of a bitch the kids. I can't get

44:52

him out of my mind that little boy just

44:54

looked at the gun Get

44:57

The fuck out. He was fucking baby was

45:00

awake and woke up. I aimed at his

45:02

face Yep, and he shot him in the

45:04

nose with it. You did that You

45:07

utter piece of and shot a

45:09

sleeping little girl you fucking scumbag.

45:11

How the unreal Jesus Christ. I

45:13

hate ah Yeah, I don't

45:15

want anybody to fucking I don't want cops to

45:18

use Enhanced interrogation

45:20

techniques, but when someone admits to

45:22

murdering a five-year-old You

45:24

should be able to work them over for

45:26

a couple minutes at that point Yeah, how

45:28

many layers of skin do we have is

45:30

it seven? I mean take a couple That's

45:32

a lot right off your fucking ball bag

45:34

take something you off This guy yeah, so

45:37

fucked up man. That is fucking

45:39

wild later on. He'll deny saying that the

45:41

little girl was asleep and And

45:44

He said that he denies that

45:46

he said that the boy must have been look he said he

45:48

told him that the boy must Have been looking at the gun

45:51

And he said he said that the agent

45:54

said that to him that boy must have been looking

45:56

at the gun and he became upset And merely repeated

45:58

it back was just like my cousin I

46:00

shot the clerk. I shot the

46:02

clerk. That's what they're saying. It's a

46:04

my cousin Vinnie situation. What did he

46:06

say after he said, I shot the

46:09

clerk? Whoa, hey, that was lame. He

46:11

said, I shot the clerk. I shot

46:13

the clerk. So the

46:17

prosecutor says that his

46:19

stories contained material which nobody but anyone

46:22

who was there killing people could have

46:24

known. And the

46:26

defense contended that because of rumor, rumor

46:29

and innuendo around a small town

46:31

plus excessive media coverage, everything

46:33

that he said had been in

46:35

public circulation being gossiped and talked

46:37

about. So he could have known.

46:39

He also says that based on

46:41

the prior inconsistent statement made to

46:44

the investigating agent, which according to

46:46

the agent's testimony, the

46:48

defendant told of going to the Thrasher home

46:50

with Jerry Prowis on that day. In this

46:52

story, he says that Prowis held the gun

46:54

on the Thrashers while he tied up Mervin

46:57

Thrasher. So I just

46:59

tied him up. He said several

47:01

times, Bobby tells them that

47:03

several times he kept saying, let's get out of here.

47:05

Let's get out of here. And then

47:07

after Mr. Thrasher was tied, Prowis

47:10

told him to go get the car. At

47:13

which point he said he ran out of the house and

47:16

then he heard gunshots as he was out

47:19

in the front yard. He said that,

47:21

you know, the jury's going to believe that if

47:23

they take him to trial because this is crazy.

47:26

Why did you buy new shoes then? Yeah.

47:29

And his lawyer says, well, even if you

47:31

find him guilty, you also have to find

47:33

abandonment of scheme. Abandonment of scheme

47:35

means that he abandoned it midway through. So he

47:37

should only be charged with the robbery and this

47:39

and that, but not the murder himself. His

47:42

final story on it all, he has many,

47:44

many stories. He

47:46

said, okay, I entered the home after

47:50

Jerry Prowis told me to, obviously we

47:52

came together. Jerry went in first, obviously.

47:55

And when I came in after Jerry was in there,

47:57

I parked the car. I came in there. Jerry, well,

48:00

was holding Sandra Thrasher at

48:02

gunpoint. He

48:05

said then Thrasher appeared to be,

48:09

you know, he was there, he said he just

48:11

got, the husband just got home from

48:13

work, because he just got home from his 4.30 a.m. work shift, the

48:17

fixing the engine. He

48:19

said that Collins told the

48:22

police that Thrasher found

48:24

the front door forced open and two men

48:26

inside with his wife at gunpoint in

48:28

her nightgown, which is, that's

48:30

not a situation he wanted to walk into. Collins

48:34

said that he tied up the

48:36

parents as Jerry Prowess directed

48:38

him, and that after rebinding

48:40

Thrasher, who had been let loose to take a

48:43

telephone call to tell the boss, I'll be there

48:45

in a couple hours, that's

48:47

when he left to get the car, and he

48:49

said he heard shots outside of the house. He

48:51

said two shots, then three shots, then three shots.

48:53

That's what he heard. He

48:56

missed the set, by the way, in there. He

48:58

said then he took Prowess eight miles north

49:01

of Woodward and let him out of his

49:03

car. They said,

49:05

well, what's the last you saw? I said, last

49:07

I saw of Jerry Prowess, he had a knapsack,

49:09

and he was walking down the road with his

49:11

knapsack and the .22 caliber lever-action rifle that he

49:13

took from the home and killed the whole family

49:16

with. Really? Walking

49:18

away, yep. The guy with

49:20

a knapsack and a rifle walking down the

49:22

street. Walking away after just, I wiped out

49:24

a family, long day, it's Miller

49:26

time. Like, so, the police officer said

49:29

that fucking Bobby Collins became

49:36

visibly upset when the cop told

49:38

him, I don't believe your bullshit

49:40

hitchhiker story, Bobby. I don't believe

49:42

a bullshit hitchhiker did anything. Don't

49:45

believe any of this shit. He said, I don't believe any

49:47

of that. So he

49:49

got real upset and Bobby said, he'll

49:51

kill me if I tell. Jerry

49:53

will kill me, that's what he said. He just

49:55

met this guy. You don't know

49:57

Jerry. You don't know Jerry. Jerry's got. If

50:00

Jerry had mob connections or was with a

50:02

cartel, he wouldn't be hitchhiking. Okay, first of

50:04

all, in your $6 shit box. Yeah,

50:08

other part is you've done terrible things that you've already

50:10

admitted to. You're going to be in prison for a

50:12

long time. Jerry ain't going to find you. Jerry ain't

50:14

going to find you. You're in prison. Yeah,

50:16

he'll be in the rape wing or whatever the fuck.

50:18

I don't know. So he

50:20

said he'll kill me. Then he

50:23

says, okay, I'll give you all the details so

50:25

you'll know I'm telling the truth. He

50:27

said, Jerry Prowess just said, we're going to

50:29

burglarize that home again, the one we went

50:31

to last time. I

50:34

parked the car. Jerry, carrying the rifle, entered

50:36

the home. When Jerry entered the house,

50:38

he saw the front door facing

50:41

the floor. He saw the

50:43

front door facing on the floor. I don't know what

50:45

that means. And noted that Mrs.

50:47

Thrasher was in bed and the boy,

50:49

so now she's not in the living room

50:51

at gunpoint. She's in bed now. In

50:54

that Robert, 18 months, the

50:56

baby was on the bottom level of a bunk bed

50:58

and the girl was asleep on the top bunk.

51:02

He said when Mr. Thrasher came in,

51:04

his wife yelled, they've got a gun

51:06

to alert

51:08

him. So then Mr. Thrasher

51:11

was forced at gunpoint to sit on the

51:13

bed and comfort the little boy who had

51:15

woken up from that. So

51:18

he had to comfort him until he went back to sleep, the

51:20

little boy, or at least till he calmed down. Bobby

51:24

Collins, on orders from Jerry, was tying

51:26

Thrasher up with strips of toweling when

51:29

the phone rang. He

51:31

said it was, Mr. Thrasher

51:33

told them, it's probably my boss and said,

51:35

I'll get rid of him. Let

51:38

me fucking talk to him. He answered the phone and said, I can't be

51:40

at work for two hours, just like the boss said. He

51:42

was then forced to kneel on the floor

51:45

while Collins tied him. And Collins said, he

51:47

said, let's go. Noting

51:50

that, he telling prowess, let's go. Noting

51:53

that Sandra Thrasher was not tied up.

51:55

He said he ran out the back door

51:57

and while running, he heard the shots. He

52:00

was, when did he tie

52:02

up fucking Sandra then? How would she

52:04

be able to tie, that much tying?

52:06

No. Yeah.

52:08

So he claims, like

52:11

I said, that he picked this guy up. He

52:13

claimed he picked him up on a day when he didn't even have a

52:15

car, first of all. Because he claims his cousin

52:17

will let him borrow the car. That's how he found

52:19

Jerry Prowse. His cousin said he didn't borrow my car

52:21

that day. So that's out right there. Also,

52:25

all replies to any inquiries

52:27

in question to all

52:29

states in the union about a Jerry Prowse

52:32

were all negative. No Jerry

52:34

Prowse's. And inconclusive, except

52:36

for a reply from New Jersey that

52:38

said they did have a record for

52:40

a guy named Jerry Prowell with two

52:42

L's. That's not the same

52:44

fucking name. And he's dead. Yeah,

52:47

and he's 93 years old and half blind.

52:52

His defense team, Bobby Collins said that Prowse and

52:54

Prowell might be the same guy. I'm sure it's

52:56

the same guy. Just grab him. Yeah.

52:59

He said that if he knew of that, he might have

53:01

been able to track down that person who might have been

53:03

the alleged Jerry Prowse. So they said it

53:05

was disputed whether or not that he went even

53:08

to Enid that day. So they said, who the

53:10

fuck knows where he's lying and where he's telling

53:12

the truth. But one thing they do know, Jerry

53:16

Prowse doesn't fuck. He's snuffle-uffigous, basically.

53:18

No, it's not a real guy.

53:20

No, it's hardcore snuffle-uffigous time here.

53:24

Jerry Prowse becomes a, hey, big bird. Hey,

53:27

I'm Jerry. Hey, Bobby. Let's

53:29

kill a family. You time

53:31

up and I'll rape them. Jesus

53:35

Christ. Why did you choose

53:37

such a fucking unique

53:39

name? Why didn't he just use, I don't know,

53:41

a guy named Bob Johnson? Ronnie Jones

53:44

came over. There's a

53:46

lot of that probably. Oh, it's a Ronnie. Ronnie

53:48

sounds like a wild man. Ronnie Wayne Jones' name

53:50

was. We both named Wayne in the middle name.

53:52

Sounds like a guy that murders. It's

53:54

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up with a better fucking murder. her name. Yeah,

56:01

Jerry Prowess. Okay.

56:04

So the Oklahoma State Bureau

56:06

of Investigation fingerprint technician, James

56:09

R. Looney, he is Looney,

56:11

that fingerprint guy, he said,

56:13

Colin's fingerprints were not found among the

56:15

prints discovered at the home. He

56:17

did say that a lot of the prints that were

56:20

taken were not identifiable. They were smudged and all that

56:22

kind of shit. So that happens a lot. Prints, it's

56:24

very rare they get great whole prints. It just doesn't

56:26

work out that way at very often. Nowadays,

56:29

they'd much rather have the oil on it to

56:31

do touch DNA than they would even fucking do

56:33

a print if it's easier. Who's to say this

56:35

dumb bitch didn't wear some gloves in this? Who

56:37

knows? Yeah, he's going over to kill in the

56:40

house he's been at before. Yeah, he knows what

56:42

he's doing. Yeah. He says that there's insufficient evidence

56:44

to bind him over on a charge of murder

56:46

in the first degree. The charge should

56:49

be reduced to murder in the second degree or

56:51

manslaughter in the first degree. He shot

56:53

a baby in the face at cold blood. A

56:55

baby in the nose, man. Wow. The

56:58

trial court erred here in overruling

57:01

his motion to quash and

57:03

dismiss the information, certain information.

57:06

Now they find no error. They said the

57:08

footprint running from the house to the road

57:11

matched his sneakers. He confessed to the burglary

57:13

in which the murder weapon had been taken

57:15

and his alibi was completely uncorroborated and also

57:18

the person that he said was there. He

57:21

said, I think we're pretty good in holding him over. So

57:23

during the trial, the defense attorney

57:25

contends that a burglar killed the

57:28

family, not Bobby. Well, Bobby

57:30

is a burglar and yes, I agree with you.

57:32

A burglar killed him. His name is Bobby Collins.

57:34

I agree. Yeah. Yes. He

57:37

said, we believe Bobby Collins had some association

57:39

with the burglar who went into the Thrasher

57:41

home and we also believe the killer or

57:43

killers are still at large. Okay, OJ. So

57:47

also he doesn't want the photos let in. Of

57:50

the scene? The photos over of

57:53

murdered children, which tends to piss a jury

57:55

off. But you know what

57:57

you do is you don't murder children and then that never

57:59

happens. I've never

58:01

been to court and had my fate be decided

58:03

by the jury looking at pictures of children I

58:06

killed or not because I've never killed any children.

58:08

So it really works that easy. Yeah.

58:11

Wow. The

58:15

rule is if they're gruesome and there's

58:17

no possibility of prejudice to the jury,

58:19

then they will not be admissible unless

58:22

their probative value clearly outweighs the danger

58:24

of prejudice. So they said in

58:26

this case here they held a

58:28

hearing outside. The defendant argues that the

58:31

matter in which the Thrashers died was not

58:33

in contention and that the photographs were not

58:36

relevant to his defense of alibi. So

58:40

they said, no, actually,

58:42

they're in. Photo mode. Yeah. Also

58:45

he says, and even if I did was there,

58:47

like I said I was, it was an abandonment

58:49

of scheme. Yeah. So he said, I

58:51

said, I wanted to get out of there and

58:53

Jerry just went crazy. Now, as we know, you

58:55

can go in to rob a store. You can

58:57

wait in the fucking car, sit in the back

58:59

seat. Somebody shoots somebody 100 yards away and you're

59:02

up for murder. Especially Oklahoma.

59:05

Yeah. Or even the guy behind the counter shoots your

59:07

friend. Now you're charged with killing your friend. Your friend's

59:09

murder. Which is a dumb fucking law. Everybody in the

59:11

car is there of their own. Everybody should be charged

59:13

with if someone else gets killed. But if one of

59:16

them gets killed, he didn't want to kill his friend.

59:18

That's fucking ridiculous. That is pretty crazy. The

59:20

storekeeper can pull people away for life

59:24

in his self-defense. That's insanity. That's the

59:26

dumbest fucking law. Not only are you

59:29

not going to jail, he's going to

59:31

jail for you murdering after him. Like

59:35

I get, you know, you don't want

59:37

to discourage armed robbery. But at the

59:39

same time, we have to have logic

59:41

in the law of some kind. That's

59:43

a fucking wild law. Yeah.

59:46

They said, though, this is without merit,

59:48

that Jerry just went crazy. Because

59:50

in order to successfully abandon the scheme, that party

59:52

must communicate to others and involves his intention to

59:54

do so. He didn't say, Jerry, fuck this. I'm

59:57

done with this. I'm getting out of here. So

1:00:00

yeah, he said that at no point he told

1:00:02

Jerry Prowess he was withdrawing, he just said he

1:00:04

followed his instruction to go to the car. Closing

1:00:08

arguments, the prosecutor over

1:00:11

the defendant's objection, the prosecutor produced

1:00:13

a material similar to

1:00:15

that which Mervin Thrasher was bound with

1:00:17

and demonstrated it was possible for a

1:00:20

person to bind himself. Like

1:00:22

if you told him to tie yourself up, you could do it. So

1:00:25

the defendant here, he argues that this demonstration

1:00:28

was an error and that the prosecuting attorney

1:00:30

went outside the record because that's not the

1:00:32

actual stuff, it's just a similar thing there.

1:00:35

They said the actual bindings were in

1:00:38

evidence. So they could have looked

1:00:40

at that. He was just showing them one that

1:00:42

he could really fuck with in court. Yeah, they could play

1:00:44

on the touch that one. Exactly. They said

1:00:46

a book could not be used in the

1:00:48

demonstration because they had been caught in order

1:00:50

to be removed from the victim. Oh, Jesus.

1:00:53

They had blood on them for Christ's sake.

1:00:56

So the counsel for the defense suggested during opening

1:00:58

arguments that the evidence would not support the contention

1:01:00

that one person could have done all that was

1:01:02

done and the purpose of the

1:01:04

demonstration was to show that Mervin Thrasher

1:01:06

could have bound himself. So

1:01:09

the counsel for the state did not claim

1:01:11

that Thrasher had tied himself in such a

1:01:13

matter, but only to show that it was

1:01:15

possible for a person to bind himself. Now

1:01:20

one person could have done this because Mervin

1:01:23

wasn't home. Yeah,

1:01:25

you got to control with everybody. Then when he

1:01:27

gets home, then you've got control with him. It's

1:01:29

not that hard. You

1:01:32

got the kids are asleep. They're no physical threat

1:01:34

anyway. Five and less than two. You got the

1:01:36

wife in the bedroom. You've got a wife, well,

1:01:38

I'm going to listen. You've raped and tied up

1:01:40

this wife at gunpoint in the bedroom and then

1:01:43

dude comes home and now you got him at

1:01:45

gunpoint. It's not like there was eight fucking lumberjacks

1:01:47

sitting around and you kicked the door open into

1:01:49

their breakfast and said, what's up, motherfuckers? Like that

1:01:52

would have been, yeah, that'd be hard. They all have axes. This

1:01:54

is different. So at the

1:01:56

conclusion of this case, he wants a new trial. Alrighty.

1:02:00

He said the only conceivable case the state

1:02:02

might have is a legal trespass and first-degree

1:02:04

manslaughter. That's it. No murder Imagine

1:02:07

saying that the balls on that Yeah,

1:02:09

they see teen months old dead man

1:02:12

He said it would be far greater crime

1:02:14

to bind a person over for first-degree murder

1:02:16

when the only punishment is death So

1:02:20

the judge rejects a plea deal that

1:02:22

they parade that they had there an

1:02:24

attempted plea deal They said no verdict

1:02:27

comes in guilty as shit. Yeah Yeah,

1:02:29

looking pretty guilty there And

1:02:31

a lot of trouble man. You're a

1:02:34

lot of trouble the sentencing comes in

1:02:36

even more trouble you sir Yeah, a

1:02:38

fuck off death penalty. Yeah, which

1:02:41

I think about if you asked anybody in town You

1:02:43

want to just drag him behind your truck. They'd all

1:02:45

go. I got a rope in the truck I don't

1:02:47

give a fuck about this guy we

1:02:49

can use killing children Hey, he drove

1:02:51

a man 10 miles to the side

1:02:53

edge of town. Let's just drag him.

1:02:55

Yeah About

1:02:57

here He

1:03:01

stopped responding a couple miles back, I don't

1:03:03

know if maybe yes, we'll just cut him

1:03:05

loose fuck it Yeah, fuck this guy. No,

1:03:07

you can't kill children in cold blood. That's

1:03:09

crazy No, and you can't shoot an 18

1:03:11

month old in the fucking no And

1:03:14

you can't be breaking into people's houses to rape

1:03:16

them and you can't be tying up people and

1:03:18

you can't be trying to burn People alive in

1:03:20

their bed. Fuck this guy. He's a he was

1:03:22

he was gonna get to this point One

1:03:26

way or another. Yep. Fuck. Yeah,

1:03:28

but shortly after this conviction and death

1:03:30

penalty it was ruled Unconstitutional

1:03:33

the death penalty in the state of

1:03:35

Oklahoma and a sentence was changed to

1:03:37

life in prison Due

1:03:39

to life in prison. It's not life

1:03:42

without so he gets parole hearings all

1:03:44

the time. We'll talk about Jesus. Yep

1:03:47

the the Prosecutors

1:03:49

said it's a shame to go through the work

1:03:51

to represent the people in a case

1:03:53

of the magnitude of the Collins case And have

1:03:55

it overturned like that. Yeah, so

1:03:58

in his appeal here. He wants wants an

1:04:00

appeal and he said that

1:04:03

it's all circumstantial evidence. There's no fingerprints, there's

1:04:05

no physical evidence, they didn't find a gun

1:04:07

in his possession, none of that shit. It's

1:04:09

all shit he said. They said,

1:04:12

but they said every reason, and this

1:04:14

is the court saying in a circumstantial

1:04:16

evidence case, every reasonable hypothesis

1:04:18

except guilt must be excluded before he

1:04:20

can find someone guilty. If

1:04:23

there's DNA all over the place, then the other things

1:04:25

are a little more nebulous, that's fine, but this is,

1:04:28

they got to be exact. They

1:04:30

said that factors would

1:04:32

include incriminating statements or conduct on the part

1:04:34

of the accused. In

1:04:37

this case, the circumstantial evidence implicating him

1:04:39

was taken together with the testimony of

1:04:41

the agents who said what he said

1:04:43

to them about Jerry Prowis and all

1:04:46

that kind of shit, and they said

1:04:48

that's sufficient to support the guilty verdict.

1:04:51

They said, in other

1:04:53

cases, one with a suicide, it was different, but

1:04:55

here, he next

1:04:58

to signs also error to the trial

1:05:00

court refusing his suggesting, requesting

1:05:02

instruction on murder in the second

1:05:04

degree. They

1:05:06

said that would be by Oklahoma law

1:05:08

in 74 when perpetrated without authority of

1:05:10

law and with a premeditated design to

1:05:12

affect the death of a person or

1:05:14

any other human being, but not an

1:05:17

act enumerated by in the

1:05:19

proceeding section. But he went into burglarize, so

1:05:21

he got it all. So

1:05:23

it is affirmed, but

1:05:26

with a dissent, there's a dissenting justice for

1:05:28

finding him guilty of nothing. Those are their

1:05:30

options. There was

1:05:33

evidence presented that the defendant might have been

1:05:35

guilty of a less serious crime than murder

1:05:37

in the first degree, and to that extent,

1:05:39

he was denied a fair trial by the

1:05:41

jury. They should have given the

1:05:43

jury the opportunity to believe him

1:05:46

and call it manslaughter or second degree. He

1:05:49

said regarding the demonstration by the prosecuting

1:05:51

attorney in the closing argument, cases cited

1:05:53

by the majority in this opinion, while

1:05:55

by no means binding this court to

1:05:57

allow such a demonstration do indicate that

1:06:00

In some jurisdictions, considerable latitude has

1:06:02

been allowed to the prosecutors in

1:06:04

closing arguments. That's true.

1:06:06

A lot of latitude in closing arguments.

1:06:09

His person says, nevertheless though, I think

1:06:11

the demonstration by the prosecutor was extremely

1:06:13

prejudicial to the defendant because the prosecutor

1:06:15

made it appear that it would have

1:06:18

been a simple task for

1:06:20

Mervyn Thrasher to have tied his own wrists

1:06:22

and then to have stepped over them so

1:06:24

his hands would be tied behind him. The

1:06:28

defendant was given no opportunity to discover

1:06:30

and point out to the jury that

1:06:32

the prosecuting attorney had in

1:06:34

fact practiced the demonstration in his

1:06:37

hotel room. Well, yeah, you

1:06:39

practiced your whole fucking, I would assume you probably

1:06:41

practiced a lot of what you do. You

1:06:44

probably say things. I'm going to say this. Does this sound

1:06:46

good? So it comes out of your mouth easier than you

1:06:48

say the second time? If you

1:06:50

don't practice your fucking murder

1:06:53

prosecution, you're terrible. I

1:06:56

rehearsed my fucking divorce proceedings

1:06:59

for Christ's sake. Closing

1:07:01

arguments in a murder trial where kids were

1:07:03

shot in the face? I'll fucking one take

1:07:05

Charlie and I got it. I'm

1:07:07

just good on my feet. If I know it too well, then

1:07:09

it won't come out right. It's got to be fresh. I'm

1:07:12

going to fucking wing it and I'll kill it. Like Brando, you

1:07:14

know what I mean? I do it off

1:07:16

the hip from the hip here. He

1:07:19

said, as a result, the jury may have well

1:07:21

been misled as to what the demonstration had actually

1:07:23

shown. Finally, I would like to

1:07:25

reverse on the grounds that the state

1:07:27

suppressed evidence which was exculpatory to the

1:07:29

defendant. What's that? Which is, prior to

1:07:32

the trial, the defendant properly moved to

1:07:34

compel disclosure of all evidence favorable to

1:07:36

him, including copies of all

1:07:38

memorandums, reports, and summaries used by

1:07:40

the plaintiff, the state of Oklahoma,

1:07:42

or any of its agents, representatives,

1:07:45

or assigns to determine

1:07:47

the possibility of the hitchhiker described

1:07:49

by the defendant as Jerry Prowess or

1:07:52

to eliminate the possibility of such

1:07:54

hitchhiker described by the defendant, including

1:07:56

but not limited to the following

1:07:58

copies of all form letters. blah

1:08:00

blah blah blah, copies of wire message, and

1:08:03

any and all reports dealing with

1:08:05

the investigation or inquiries made concerning

1:08:07

the existence or non-existence of Jerry

1:08:10

Prowis or any other hitchhiker. So

1:08:13

he says they didn't look into that enough.

1:08:16

He fucking made it up. It would be one thing if the

1:08:20

person existed. It would be one thing

1:08:22

if he said, Bob from down the

1:08:24

street, I know him. That would be

1:08:26

one thing. Yes, investigate. He made a

1:08:28

fucking person up, period. And

1:08:30

he said he had an ID

1:08:32

with the name on it, therefore

1:08:35

he knows how to spell it. It's not like it

1:08:37

was Jerry with a G. You know what I mean?

1:08:39

Yeah. He mumbled it and

1:08:41

said Prowis. He might have said Prowel or he

1:08:43

might have said Prowin. I don't know. No, he

1:08:45

read it. He fucking read it. I saw the

1:08:47

letters. We

1:08:49

Googled him. He don't exist. That was a dumb thing to

1:08:51

say. I knew the exact, because then he could have said,

1:08:54

well try it like this or try it like this. He

1:08:56

might have said it like this. I don't know. Eventually

1:08:59

you would have found someone with that name,

1:09:01

but this fucking idiot, not at all.

1:09:03

He's an idiot. He blew it. So

1:09:05

1977, he's trying to get the Supreme

1:09:07

Court to hear his case. Oh boy.

1:09:09

And they announced that they will not

1:09:11

hear the appeal of Bobby Wade Collins.

1:09:13

We're going to pass on that. Yeah.

1:09:15

He contended he was denied his constitutional

1:09:17

right to due process because he was

1:09:19

not allowed to see records detailing the

1:09:21

government's search for the

1:09:23

hitchhiker. Yeah. He wanted

1:09:25

to see the records of the search. They didn't

1:09:27

look for him. Right. So he argued, if they

1:09:30

honestly thought he existed and

1:09:32

was out there hitchhiking, robbing, murdering, murdering

1:09:34

their spouses like that, I feel like

1:09:36

they'd probably take a look just in

1:09:38

case. Hey, we'll get two for one here.

1:09:40

Yeah. So yeah, they said

1:09:43

that. Collins argued that if he

1:09:45

had been allowed to see the records, he could have shown his

1:09:48

jury that the state authorities made only a

1:09:50

superficial search for the man. Or he

1:09:53

said, I could have even tried to locate

1:09:55

him myself. Yeah, but you could. What 1974

1:09:57

resources does a 19-year-old

1:10:00

have to find somebody. Right. A

1:10:03

19-year-old who works at a gas station and lights people

1:10:05

on fire in bed. Yeah, and rapes old women. That's

1:10:07

great. So, yeah, they

1:10:09

said they've ruled that it wasn't unconstitutional.

1:10:12

Blah, blah, blah. You can go fuck

1:10:14

yourself. He has ruled, you sir,

1:10:16

may fuck off life in prison. Like

1:10:19

I said, but with parole. So

1:10:21

he's got parole. Now, 1989, he's up for parole. It's

1:10:26

15 years. Oh my God. He

1:10:29

told the parole board he did not commit

1:10:31

the murders. Uh-oh. But he also

1:10:33

said he didn't believe my arguments will sway

1:10:35

you anyway. He said, I'm well

1:10:38

aware no one here is going to grant me

1:10:40

no parole anyhow. That's what he said. Grant

1:10:42

me no parole anyhow. Anyhow. Anyhow.

1:10:46

So, 19, he's basically, I don't, he's doing a Manson. Like

1:10:48

you're not going to let me out anyway. Why am I

1:10:50

fucking here? Keep dicks. 92

1:10:53

up for parole again. He

1:10:55

asked the board to reduce his life sentence to

1:10:57

45, 60, 75, 99 years. It

1:11:01

doesn't matter. Oh, he doesn't like the torture. He wants

1:11:03

a number. Yeah. He wants

1:11:05

a number. The indefinite shit is driving

1:11:07

me nuts already. Yep. He

1:11:10

maintains his innocence. He said he does not deserve

1:11:12

to be in prison at all, but a reduced

1:11:14

sentence would put his chances of release at least

1:11:16

in his own hands. Yeah,

1:11:18

there's not no one is driving me nuts.

1:11:21

Then he broke out. I have scientific

1:11:23

evidence. Oh. Which

1:11:26

is, the parole board is not the person to take

1:11:28

that. You take that to an appeals court. Yeah. Parole

1:11:31

board wants to hear, I'm very sorry and I'm better now.

1:11:33

I won't do it again. Rehabilitation

1:11:35

story and remorse. That's what we

1:11:38

need. Yep. He said

1:11:40

the cigarettes at the crime scene showed

1:11:42

someone with O positive blood type was

1:11:45

there and the blood type of Collins

1:11:47

and all of the victims is A

1:11:49

positive. That means,

1:11:51

so he could have had someone come over smoking.

1:11:54

One of the cops could have had a cigarette. Yeah.

1:11:57

Fucking, it's Bob. Bob's cigarette? Yeah, a couple of

1:11:59

them. of cigarettes. He called

1:12:02

and said that he is a trustee and

1:12:05

for jail and has been had a

1:12:07

clear conduct, a record conduct for almost

1:12:10

nine years. He's been in jail for 20. That's

1:12:13

not good. It's not great. That's really

1:12:15

bad. And the board unanimously tells him to

1:12:17

go eat dicks again. Go

1:12:20

set your own bed on fire. 2009, he's

1:12:23

up for parole. Oh, my. And

1:12:25

the district attorney told the parole board that

1:12:27

what he did was probably one of the

1:12:29

worst crimes Woodward County has ever

1:12:31

seen. And

1:12:33

they said they're encouraging the public to write letters to the

1:12:35

parole board. If they don't want them out or if they

1:12:38

do want them out, let them know. Former

1:12:41

district attorney Jack Barton, who was there

1:12:43

for 75, said Bobby Collins should have

1:12:46

been executed. He never gave a reason for

1:12:48

committing the crimes. I'll kill him myself. I

1:12:51

mean, in retrospect, we should have lynched

1:12:54

him. But you know, we should have

1:12:56

missed. Then he

1:12:58

revealed that the rifle used

1:13:00

was found years later in

1:13:02

a pond. Years

1:13:05

after the conviction in the 80s, somebody pulled

1:13:07

the rifle out and they figured out it's

1:13:09

the fucking murder weapon. Oh, my God. So

1:13:11

it was in a pond. This

1:13:14

guy said that, quote, I don't think he should ever

1:13:16

be paroled. So he wasn't some

1:13:18

guy that wasn't eight miles out of town walking away

1:13:20

with it because it was in a pond in town.

1:13:23

So he's full of shit. The

1:13:26

Taylor, Collins caseworker has written a, quote,

1:13:29

glowing review about him recommending that he

1:13:31

should be released and that he's shown

1:13:33

good behavior while in prison. No. Wow.

1:13:37

He was at the Lexington Corrections Center,

1:13:39

a medium security prison. They

1:13:41

said, quote, the reason the caseworker is recommending

1:13:43

him for parole is because he's maintained good

1:13:46

behavior and turned in a

1:13:48

machine gun left behind by the National

1:13:50

Guard after exercises at the prison. They

1:13:52

left a machine gun in prison. Who

1:13:55

leaves? Who the fuck

1:13:57

didn't account for all the automatic weaponry?

1:14:00

And they left it in a prison. Somebody

1:14:03

sat down and scratched their balls and

1:14:05

then stood up and walked away. Maybe

1:14:07

like a second grade playground is the only

1:14:09

worst place I could think of to leave

1:14:11

a machine gun. Maybe there. So

1:14:14

you left your machine gun. Oh, thank you

1:14:16

so much. You are such a responsible movie.

1:14:18

Thank you for not killing us all and

1:14:20

trying to escape. Wow. Uh,

1:14:23

Sandra Thrasher's mother, who was

1:14:25

still alive at that point, was

1:14:27

past, still passing out flyers at

1:14:29

convenience stores, asking people, write letters, requesting

1:14:32

his parole be denied. She's, she's dead

1:14:34

that now though. So she can't do

1:14:36

that anymore. In

1:14:39

2019, his attorney, who by the way,

1:14:42

one of his appeals attorney, Dennis

1:14:44

Hartley was also Timothy McVay's attorney, one

1:14:47

of his attorney. Yes. He

1:14:49

is disbarred in 2019. Oh,

1:14:51

yeah. Um, he did

1:14:54

that. And so there's that. And,

1:14:56

uh, Hart, this is the lawyer. He said, I will

1:14:58

continue to advise against it, but I don't imagine he'll

1:15:00

change his mind. I don't think anyone's going to try

1:15:02

to persuade him to change his mind. I don't know

1:15:04

what they're talking about there. Oh, they're talking about this

1:15:06

guy doing his appeals. Okay. So that's that

1:15:09

he's still in prison. Wow. They've

1:15:11

kept him for 30 years. I

1:15:13

haven't seen him paroled and I look at the

1:15:15

last I saw was what? 2019 night. No,

1:15:19

that was when the attorney was gone. 2009,

1:15:22

he was up for parole. I mean, that was Christ.

1:15:24

He'd been in there forever. Then 15 years ago, as

1:15:27

long as he doesn't admit to shooting children. There's

1:15:29

no way to let them out. They're not letting

1:15:31

them out and they shouldn't let them out. He

1:15:33

can go fuck himself. Rod in there. Find me

1:15:36

Jerry or shut the fuck up. Yeah. That man

1:15:38

produced Jerry. Wow. James, he was 21 when

1:15:41

that happened. He was 19 when that happened. Oh

1:15:44

yeah. Holy fuck. Yeah.

1:15:46

He is now 69 years old. He's

1:15:50

almost 70. He's been in there for 40 years. He's

1:15:53

a scumbag. There you go. 50

1:15:55

years. Holy. That

1:15:58

is the Snuffleupagus murders here. Yeah.

1:16:01

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your tickets for the rest of the year too.

1:16:40

Those shows are selling out. Oh boy, they're moving.

1:16:42

Yeah. If you want to come to a

1:16:44

show like New York end of the year, it's almost done. You better

1:16:47

get your tickets. That's in December. Get your

1:16:49

tickets right now. Come see us. Do that.

1:16:51

patreon.com/crime and sports, all the bonus material.

1:16:54

Five dollars a month or above. Get you everything. Back

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catalog. New episodes, new ones every other week.

1:16:59

This week for crime and sports, which you

1:17:01

get. We're going to talk about the trials and tribulations

1:17:03

of Hulk Hogan. All

1:17:06

of his crazy stuff. He's calling people

1:17:08

racial slurs. His kid's killing people. He's

1:17:10

getting sex tapes put out in public.

1:17:12

He's suing people for a hundred million.

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It's wild shit. Get in there for

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small town murder, back by popular demand.

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Weird small town festivals. We can't wait. So

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much fucking fun. Get in there. patreon.com/crime

1:17:24

and sports. Then you get a shout out at the

1:17:26

end of the regular show. Follow

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the show on social media at small town murder

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on Instagram, small town pod on Facebook. Get in

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there. Follow us. Also, you

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want to follow us individually. You can do that.

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Go to shutupandgivememurder.com. Drop down menu. Do

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that. Keep hanging out with us. Oh

1:17:42

boy. Don't ever stop. Keep coming back.

1:17:44

And until next week, everybody, it's been

1:17:46

our pleasure. Bye. Hey

1:18:07

Prime Members, you can listen to Small Town

1:18:09

Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download

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the Amazon Music app today. Or

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you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery

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Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before

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you go, tell us

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about yourself by completing

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a short survey at

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wondery.com. Ophthalmologist Dr. Strauss has

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seen first-hand how the metaverse is helping

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the primary cause of avoidable blindness.

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