0:05

Ain't judgment studio.

0:21

Okay. So would my kids are a little

0:23

smaller? I take them to the park every

0:25

afternoon. At the park,

0:28

the same people, parents. They're little tinny

0:30

little Rajeev. Hello, Maria. That's a pretty flower

0:32

in your hair. Kind of a club,

0:34

you know. Every day, I see

0:36

this guy. Looks like he's

0:38

black

0:39

dude, shaving head. Good luck.

0:42

Okay.

0:43

Maybe it looks like me if I spent more time at

0:45

the gym, but I'm not on trial here anyway. I

0:47

say hello to this guy, and he says

0:50

nothing bad. don't

0:52

know. Maybe he's shy, but

0:54

there he is. Talking to all the other

0:56

mummies and daddy, oh, he's the life of the

0:58

party. So I try again.

1:01

Because we see each other every day.

1:03

Hey, how's it going? Nothing.

1:07

Next day, what's up? Ignore.

1:11

Following day, I go nuclear and

1:13

given the black head nod,

1:16

He keeps looking straight ahead,

1:18

and I know, at long

1:21

life. I have an enemy.

1:25

An arch enemy. Now,

1:27

he's got a funny

1:28

story. He's telling everyone right in front

1:30

of me while ignoring me. Really

1:32

bad?

1:33

Well, I've got a funny

1:36

story too. But that time was

1:38

in that place. Now we're battling

1:40

for the infection of the mommies and the daddies. I

1:42

start pushing three kids on three

1:44

swings at three speeds at

1:46

the same time. But

1:48

now he's running four others on the merry-go-round thingy.

1:51

Oh, he's got extra snacks for everybody

1:54

in case someone forgot there, he says not

1:56

looking at me. But

1:58

I've got plenty of snacks in the stroller.

2:01

And juice boxes for days mother

2:05

Yeah. I'm gonna kite

2:07

to the park so all the kids can play

2:09

with it. Point scored. Next

2:11

day. This fool brings

2:14

a bubble machine. Bubbles,

2:16

everywhere, boss. Do you know? Can

2:19

you even capture how

2:21

much little kids love bubbles.

2:23

Can you can you? Now,

2:28

the thing I'm gonna tell you how we kissed and made

2:30

up. I am not. We did not. In

2:33

fact, I saw that

2:35

fall. Last week

2:38

at the farmer's market asking people

2:40

if they have an extra tote bag he can

2:42

borrow. Hey. Download

2:45

radio. Yes. I

2:47

have an extra tote bag, but it's

2:50

in my other tote bag. To

3:03

dance that judgment, we probably

3:05

present riles. Stories

3:08

from people's butt and heads. My name has been Washington.

3:10

I've got the juice box right here when

3:13

you're listening. The

3:16

snapback. I

3:23

remember if you got the day snappless story

3:26

about a time capsule. Only

3:28

this one was never buried. The

3:31

story does deal with my doubts situations,

3:34

Saricades. As such.

3:36

Listen to discretion. Is it live?

3:56

My name is Jane Giluli, and

3:58

I've been a artist for decades

4:01

now, and I tend to collect

4:03

objects. In

4:05

two thousand and nine, I found a

4:07

notice about a suitcase on

4:09

eBay. The listing

4:11

was a picture of the

4:13

suitcase opened up and

4:16

the image was fairly low res,

4:18

but I could see rows of

4:20

audio tape and the title

4:23

of the eBay ad was suitcase

4:25

of Love plus Shame. I

4:33

contacted the seller. I asked him where

4:36

it came from. And he told me that

4:38

he bought it at an estate sale, but he didn't

4:40

really define what kind of an estate

4:42

sale it was. So I didn't

4:44

really

4:45

know. And then the cell

4:47

phone that number that he gave me just

4:49

stopped working.

4:51

So I I have no idea, but I never did

4:53

speak to him again. So I just

4:55

got it four hundred dollars. And

4:59

inside the suitcase, there

5:01

were sixty hours of

5:02

tape. They

5:07

were not in they

5:10

weren't organized in a particular order,

5:13

but it came with a

5:15

reel to reel

5:16

deck. And I did just kind

5:18

of randomly take a

5:20

tape out of

5:21

the suitcase and just listen

5:23

to 1234,

5:30

Very beautiful. Very

5:34

well, Juniper. Dear, darling.

5:36

This is Friday

5:38

afternoon. Had the executive

5:40

a five after

5:41

three. The very first thing

5:43

I heard was veterinary doctor

5:47

I better turn up this volume a little bit

5:49

more. Like, I have

5:51

to talk rather low in

5:52

here. I'm at the office in the hospital, of

5:54

course. So you had the sound of these

5:56

hollow hallways and calls

5:59

for one doctor and other on the background?

6:03

I have a great big show.

6:07

Yes. Just

6:14

a minute. Damn and go

6:16

with some damn thinking long. And

6:20

it became easy fairly

6:22

quickly to discover that that

6:24

recordings were of sexual affair.

6:28

I'll register in the hotel on

6:30

St. Louis under the the

6:33

name of Dr. Mrs. MJ

6:36

Green, but I'll be there. Don't worry about that because

6:38

I don't want anything to miss this since

6:40

I don't

6:40

know. Gotta

6:42

like it, Jenny. I already do.

6:46

We'll be two months darling to the

6:48

day, two whole months that

6:51

we haven't been in each other's arms or

6:53

whispering in each other's ear or

6:56

breathe the sweet fragrance of

6:59

one another. The

7:01

doctor's name was Tom, The woman's

7:03

name was Jeanne, and she was younger.

7:06

She was in her late thirties, early forties.

7:08

And she

7:10

didn't seem to be ever as

7:13

concerned about someone interrupting

7:15

her. So her

7:18

her types were were

7:21

I don't know. They were just they were fuller

7:25

and just about ready to finish

7:27

up with the miss America pageant. So and

7:29

then we get just a little bit of it on our tape.

7:32

That's always quite an exciting thing that

7:34

I enjoy it. Seeing the

7:36

beautiful girls and everything, and You're

7:39

supposed to let the other way. They're

7:41

coming back on now, so let's

7:43

get the thrill of hearing miss

7:45

America announced. On our date

7:47

purple. Cheers Brook practice, listen to

7:49

the Ebb and dollar.

7:55

She was a widow, actually.

7:57

She was a young widow and had

7:59

no children. And it was never clear

8:01

to me exactly what he died of,

8:04

but in the suitcase was a list.

8:06

And there was a date in nineteen sixty

8:09

one, and written next to the date was,

8:11

you know, Freddie dies. And

8:14

there's one moment when Jeanne's

8:16

recording a take for Tom and telling

8:19

him that besides Freddy,

8:21

he was really the only person that

8:23

she'd ever loved. Her

8:30

lady is getting me. I'm

8:33

certainly a man. She's ready to get here.

8:36

She wants to go back and prepare college education.

8:42

I don't know how much you've been able to pick up on

8:44

this, and we had to turn down some of them. We don't

8:46

turn up to them now. Run down and talk

8:48

so low. Okay. I

8:51

have to talk to yourself and don't answer back.

8:56

Oh, really? No. No. No.

9:02

You do wonderful math on this.

9:05

Do Jeannie. I

9:07

love you, Guadu. Yes.

9:12

And

9:21

That's out of what song in

9:22

it. Got it. Probably

9:24

sound Actually, I don't understand that. Sounds

9:26

like you had a couple on your belt. Yeah.

9:28

Another thing, not even coffee yet. We haven't

9:31

been in that

9:31

lunch. You hungry? Mhmm. Yeah.

9:38

Jeanne called it her memory library, pictures

9:41

of of bedrooms that they'd slept in.

9:43

Mhmm. Made beds and the

9:45

curtains were always drawn and

9:47

I only have one snapshot. They

9:50

must have asked somebody else to take

9:53

of the two of them on us

9:55

sidewalk, somewhere, and they're holding

9:57

hands, and they're just out in public. We've

10:01

got all our city in working by

10:03

daylight in the night.

10:08

Brilliant hotcakes and ringtone

10:12

and copper jobs. We

10:14

live big trade rocks at

10:16

Peru. That's where we're in the most

10:22

You can do a lecture there about all the

10:24

stars.

10:32

Because he was older than Genie, Tom

10:34

had a practically grown family.

10:37

And he was very seriously considering

10:41

divorcing his wife. Sometimes

10:43

they were very critical of

10:45

her and just kind of mean.

10:48

And Tom would complain about

10:49

her, and and then, you know, Jeanne wouldn't

10:52

discourage him. Because

10:54

she gets up every morning just as regular

10:56

as a clockwork gets my breakfast. I never have

10:58

to tell her to get up. She gets up every night

11:00

morning. Now it gets my breakfast. That's something

11:03

she's never done all of her in my life. And

11:05

all these things I've been bitching about, now

11:08

she's doing them. And she's doing

11:10

them religiously. And

11:12

she is doing her very utmost to

11:14

keep this family together.

11:17

If she had wanted to do these things,

11:19

she would have been doing them, Tom. Now

11:22

I feel that she's on doing them because

11:25

you've expressed the desire that she

11:27

do so or

11:28

else. I may be wrong. I'm no psychiatrist.

11:30

I'm no big brain of any kind. I

11:32

have a feeling that there's, you know, some information

11:35

seeping to her somehow or other. She can't

11:37

be that right all the time, but she

11:39

guessed on the fourteenth, and she guessed on Monday

11:41

too. But somewhere she's getting

11:43

some information and I don't know where.

11:46

Lucille does have a cancer scare at one point

11:49

and has to have a biopsy and everyone

11:51

was afraid for her

11:54

in this concern that you had for

11:56

her and the check on

11:58

the biopsy and everything I I

12:00

can understand that. My darling, I

12:02

I wouldn't wish anything like that on

12:05

on

12:05

anybody. That's too tragic

12:07

a thing to happen. And I didn't

12:09

want anything like that, but

12:12

you too will also get the sense that

12:15

that would have made things simple. That

12:18

would have solved their problems if

12:20

if Lucille actually did have cancer and

12:22

didn't survive

12:22

it. I know what

12:25

I've what a wonderful man you are

12:27

and how conscientious you are about things

12:29

and I would have probably put her in bed

12:31

health for a long time and then you would have just

12:33

stepped by out of the right

12:35

thing to do. I I know

12:37

you, but I

12:40

I'm glad for her

12:41

sake, my darling and and ours

12:43

also, you know, that that

12:46

it was alright.

12:49

I have tried my mask to make make it

12:51

happy Christmas when they

12:54

children to come home. We did.

12:56

We had a nice Christmas, and

13:00

I've been perfectly frank with it and

13:02

ended. It affected me. So

13:06

no. I mean, don't jump on me. III can't take

13:08

it from two women. But I get I'm not gonna do

13:10

either. It's for damn sure. You know, I just

13:12

can't or I can't take anymore to stand me acting

13:14

from women. I'm not going to you

13:16

get AAA problem

13:18

here. I'm

13:21

married, and my my machine never

13:23

give me a divorce. And not

13:25

right now, I I knew that

13:28

I'd better get busy in in

13:31

the Sanofi of these things

13:32

that kind of bug me. You know how

13:34

things bug you about me. And so I

13:38

have things that I need to ask you about.

13:41

And a paper clipping

13:43

here, I'll give you later on the style

13:45

and version of press secretary chair

13:47

to president Johnson, they're getting

13:49

a divorce. And after all knowing

13:51

there's nothing that says that you're

13:54

not any good, but because you have a divorce, you

13:56

know, or have gotten a divorce. I mean, that

13:58

doesn't make any kind of

14:01

idiot not to be able to stick

14:03

to the same old grind or something that's becoming

14:05

tolerable. And after

14:08

all, this is a different kind of a world now anyway.

14:12

What you're doing is right dialing by

14:14

trying to find happiness and life. But

14:19

it it just it frightens me time

14:23

because we are losing time down. I

14:28

don't know price experts. This is very

14:30

well, but just a moment.

14:36

Yeah. Here. Oh, yeah. It's a cool one.

14:38

That's share. Oh, darling. It's

14:40

so good to be with you

14:41

today. Let me

14:43

know it. No. You're gonna

14:45

have time as tape as I've been talking to me

14:47

very seriously on here too. You

14:49

must loosen the what I have decided because

14:52

I mean it from the bottom of my

14:53

heart. Talking about my ass. And

14:56

-- Well

14:57

-- reason for

14:57

it. Oh, actually, I love me darling.

15:02

I do I do I do do change. I

15:04

know that No.

15:10

We don't have the nowhere in my left hand is

15:13

right now, dear. There

15:15

were long periods of time where they didn't

15:17

see each other, and he didn't want her

15:19

to waste her life. So

15:22

Tom at times was, you know, encouraging

15:24

her to date other people, but

15:26

it it was interesting because once

15:28

she would start to see this one

15:30

guy named

15:31

Howard. If she happened to mention

15:33

him in any way, then Tom would get jealous.

15:37

When this thing, Howard came up It

15:40

it it didn't make me mad. I didn't get

15:42

mad about it. But he'd

15:46

been better off he hadn't told my man, I guess.

15:48

I mean, I said, I've been damned if I was gonna wait on

15:51

that no good S0B. And for sure,

15:53

I wasn't gonna place I

15:55

can fiddle to him. That's for a damn sure.

15:57

Because her and

15:59

her are in the same we're not in the same

16:01

way, you know, for if I'm concerned. I

16:04

actually feel if you even talk

16:06

to anybody, you're lower in yourself.

16:08

That's no question my mind about that.

16:12

I He won't

16:14

do it all. There was

16:16

a photograph in the suitcase, actually,

16:19

a man who looked like he might have been a truck driver

16:21

he was he was standing next to a big

16:24

semi. You

16:26

know, whether that was Howard, I'm

16:29

not really

16:29

sure. Whatever the Yes. Howard

16:33

Newsseam are are are the two

16:35

big big factors

16:37

in in our love affair. What's

16:40

gonna be the thing that that triggers it

16:41

off. I can't tell you. I

16:44

can't tell you. I know something's

16:46

gonna trigger it off one of these days.

17:01

Well, Jenny, let

17:04

me start from the very beginning.

17:09

I had a session that did happen with

17:11

Lucy Owen. And this I didn't

17:13

know. There wasn't any way for

17:15

me to know. She

17:18

knows everything that you ever

17:20

put on tape. She

17:22

had key made and she's been

17:25

coming in here when she knew I was out of town

17:27

and getting the tapes and taking them home. I listened to

17:29

them and bringing them back where she got them. And

17:32

she said she had seen the pictures before and

17:34

put them back right where they were at.

17:37

So she knows everything we've done. She's

17:39

been getting into these tapes. Oh, and

17:42

I'm certain she has because

17:44

she knows these things in my heart. She

17:49

said she's been getting flowers and and

17:53

yes.

17:55

So that's how she come. She knew she

17:58

knew all about Saint Louis. And

18:00

the reason you couldn't get the key is this.

18:03

She went to the desk and said she was missus

18:05

Green. She talked with her attorney,

18:07

paid her attorney forty dollars for consultation

18:10

over the telephone. And he

18:12

he said that both of us could have been

18:15

arrested for registering a

18:17

hotel under false

18:19

name, not being married and wife

18:22

on moral charges. And we

18:25

come off of close to the g off of close.

18:34

I was aware that blue

18:36

seal, new avian affair.

18:39

But I guess I was just surprised by

18:41

how extreme that

18:44

this had gotten because after

18:46

that, he clearly had no intention of leaving his

18:48

wife. And Jeanne would be

18:51

Also, oftentimes, up late alone

18:54

watching TV, drinking, and

18:57

then feel like she needed to talk Tom and

18:59

he wasn't there, so she'd pull the tape recorder

19:01

out and be trying to make a tape for him. And

19:04

she had the tape deck set up wrong.

19:14

I'm so upset I could just cry. Dramble,

19:18

damn thing every time you wanna do something,

19:20

somebody or something stands in your way.

19:23

This microphone sounds like an old hollow

19:26

I don't know what. I'm

19:28

just I'm

19:30

just so damn provoked I could just cry.

19:35

Donnie, I'm sorry. I've been working with this

19:37

damn thing for over half an hour trying to

19:39

get

19:40

started on making this cake for you.

19:44

It's four thirty in the morning. On

19:48

February the eighth Tuesday

19:50

morning darling, and I'm just

19:53

I'm just so upset And

19:56

so many things in my mind that I just

19:59

but this just doesn't sound right. I

20:01

mean, it just There we go.

20:04

Or darling. I just

20:06

I'll try to slow down and get myself

20:08

contained here, but I wanna make it

20:10

till I can and get it off in the

20:13

mail this morning darling. And,

20:15

you know, there's one type in particular where

20:18

I realized that she's starting

20:20

to masturbate. And

20:29

then after she orgasms, she

20:31

just start sobbing. And

20:36

she's sobbing for an incredibly long

20:39

time, like forty minutes

20:41

or something like that.

20:50

Be in there. Wow. Wow.

20:53

Wow. Then just have

20:55

to wake

20:57

up. Girl,

21:02

right.

21:06

So when I was listening to that,

21:09

I remember just pushing

21:11

my chair back away from the

21:13

speakers. And I just, like,

21:15

lay on the ground. And

21:21

Tom was pretty much having a nervous breakdown

21:23

he was drinking outrageous amounts

21:25

of alcohol, and he made some really

21:27

pathetic tapes himself as

21:29

well.

21:31

I hate to hear you cry on the telephone. I

21:35

know I'm I'm talking to you

21:37

and always be be fair with Eugenie.

21:39

I I always have. And

21:43

I haven't I haven't used Eugenie,

21:45

you know, and then I haven't used you for

21:47

crutch to tell all my troubles too,

21:49

and

21:51

and I wouldn't want you to wait for me.

21:54

But he just wasn't to change off that.

21:57

Just well. III

22:02

can't go through with it. I can't.

22:05

I just can't go through with it.

22:10

I just can't. I

22:15

just simply can't go through with it.

22:17

Not that I don't believe it's nothing at all,

22:21

but I hold them. Very

22:24

high position in in my

22:26

profession right now, higher than probably

22:28

I deserved. And

22:32

I won't give it out.

22:41

On one of the very very last tapes

22:44

that I have, she'd kind of tearfully

22:46

sort of confessed to him that he

22:49

is her world. But

22:52

I'm not certain whether I have the last tape

22:54

or not, and there's gaps

22:56

in the tape. So whether things

22:59

changed. I don't really know.

23:04

My darling. You

23:07

can imagine how many times during

23:09

the long long days and loaning

23:12

some cold nights. I

23:16

think of you

23:17

in a million million ways. I

23:20

very very

23:21

much. I love

23:22

you.

23:25

It is

23:28

terribly hard being awaking you so

23:30

long at a time. You

23:34

have so many many things to fear your days

23:36

and your mind overflows

23:39

with

23:41

the preparations that you make.

23:44

Sometimes I feel as though I and

23:51

contributing anything, any

23:55

word to anybody. With

24:03

the exception of my deep love

24:07

that I have for you, look, tried

24:10

to express to you and looked

24:12

about really alright.

24:13

I accomplished

24:18

in the way of relation to

24:20

the other humans' tone.

24:25

It it took a little while for me

24:27

to be able to

24:29

track down, you know, some

24:31

records and deeds, but I was able

24:34

to find that Tom

24:36

had died, and he was still

24:38

married when when he moved further

24:41

south. And from what I

24:43

understood, Jeanne, didn't have any children.

24:46

She may have married again at some point,

24:48

but I knew that the person that she

24:50

might have briefly been married to was out of

24:52

convenience.

24:54

And I that person I know died before

24:56

she did as well.

24:59

Geney, I hope I hope

25:01

you're able

25:05

to straightened out. Mhmm. And

25:07

this terrible thing that I've dug you

25:09

into.

25:13

You and I may never every meeting

25:15

gathering in.

25:23

I may have some music in the background. You

25:25

probably picked up. It's the

25:27

intercom that I put

25:29

in. In

25:31

her house. Okay. Dude,

25:37

dude. I deep

25:39

fishy ocean. How

25:43

high is the sky? And

25:47

if I ever lost to

25:50

how much would I cry?

25:55

How deep is the ocean? How

25:59

high is the sky? And

26:03

if you don't ever hear me, I'll

26:07

let you what I cried. Adi,

26:11

who's the ocean? How

26:14

long is the sky?

26:27

Jane Luley is an artist and

26:29

filmmaker living in Boston. The take

26:31

you just heard comes from her documentary, The

26:33

suitcase of Love plus Shane. To

26:36

listen and see the entire film, it's distributed

26:38

by Cinema Guild and available on iTunes.

26:41

You can also find links at snap judgment dot

26:43

org, The originals found design

26:45

for that piece was by stamped documents, Leon Mori

26:47

Moto, and it was produced by Joe

26:49

Rosenberg. Now Tom

26:51

and Genie, they both passed away in recent years.

26:54

But if you're wondering what happened to

26:56

the love triangle between Tom, Genie,

26:58

Musil, and the other suitor Howard,

27:01

Well, Jane said she did some

27:03

slooping, and she was finally able

27:05

to track down Jenny's last known

27:07

address. And

27:10

I took out a map and picked out

27:12

the closest nursing home and just went there

27:15

and walked in and asked if she was

27:17

there. And the woman sort

27:19

of looked at me like I must know

27:21

something about Jeannie and and

27:23

was very apologetic because she

27:25

told me that There was only one person

27:28

on the list of friends and family. So

27:31

I just volunteered and just asked

27:33

if it was Howard. And the

27:35

woman told me that, yes, that Howard was still

27:37

in her life. And from what I could

27:39

tell, she never did marry him.

27:42

But he was still visiting.

27:59

When Snapchat about the rivals episode continues,

28:02

if you wake up one day to discover, you're

28:05

the most hated person in

28:07

America. On snapdragon

28:09

but returns, stay tuned.

28:21

Stamp touches brought to you

28:24

by progressive. Home of a name your

28:26

price tool, you say how much you wanna

28:28

pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage

28:30

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28:37

insurance company, and affiliates price and

28:39

coverage match limited by state

28:41

law. Welcome

28:46

back to stamp judgment, The Rivals

28:48

episode. Now, imagine

28:51

lining your own business, drinking your coffee, starting

28:53

your car. Suddenly,

28:57

everyone hates you.

29:11

I think I saw it on television. That

29:13

was back when we all watched the news

29:15

at like six, I think they

29:18

actually broke into whatever else

29:20

was going on to YOU KNOW SAY

29:22

JUST IN.

29:24

Reporter: IN DITRIK TODAY THERE'S BEEN A VINET ATTACK

29:26

ON AN AMERICAN ATHLET. NANCY CAROLAGEN,

29:28

THE AMERICAN FIGURES CAGR who was widely

29:30

considered a favorite to win a medal at the Winter Olympics

29:33

was attacked at a practice session.

29:35

Two men wielding some sort of

29:37

unidentified stick

29:40

type object, you know, something

29:42

I don't know.

29:46

The story was, these guys

29:49

who knew figure skating rival Tanya

29:51

Harding had plotted the whole thing.

29:53

They followed Nancy Kerrigan in Michigan and

29:56

then clubbed her right at the knee

29:58

with a metal

29:59

baton. The idea was to knock

30:01

her out of the running for the Olympics. know,

30:03

they were showing that famous awful clip

30:06

of of Nancy injured on the

30:08

on the floor around, you know, near

30:10

the ring and people rushing to her

30:12

aid and her crying in pain. It's awful.

30:20

In nineteen ninety four, I was

30:22

living in Boston. Nancy had grown

30:24

up. And she's from Stoneham, but

30:26

we all had sort of watched her watched her

30:28

rise. Nancy

30:33

was adored. The local kid

30:35

who was gonna win the gold. But

30:38

Tanya, Tanya's reputation before

30:40

this happened was that she was a

30:43

tough athletic, amazing, amazing

30:46

skater who succeeded

30:49

against all odds. She

30:51

saved bottle caps to pay for

30:53

her ice time. She sold

30:55

her own costumes. She was like she

30:58

was like the good kind of scrappy. It

31:00

was such a huge scandal. You

31:02

know, who did it? Why?

31:04

Who's to blame? So

31:07

after this, Nancy was the golden

31:09

girl and Tanya was the white

31:11

trash. After that news

31:14

broke, The next time that

31:16

I left the house, I was walking

31:18

down the street, I sensed a car

31:20

slowdown next to me, whoever

31:22

it was, rolled down the window and said,

31:24

Hey, Tanya. Go home. To

31:27

me. So

31:31

Lynne is holding out on one piece

31:33

of information here. I was taking

31:35

private figure skating lessons from

31:37

a coach at the MIT rank. So

31:40

I'd often be around Cambridge carrying my skates.

31:43

All of a sudden, it was constant.

31:45

People would stop me on the street.

31:48

Hey, You know what

31:49

you look like? And what they were thinking was

31:51

that I looked exactly like Tanya Harding.

31:54

And like the thing is, I really did.

31:57

I walked into my house

32:00

one day and there was message

32:02

saying, Lynn, this is so and so over

32:04

at the Boston Globe. I

32:06

heard you look a lot like Tanya

32:08

Harding, and I'm wondering what that's like for you. Can

32:10

you please give me a call? Lynn's

32:12

picture made it on the front page of the metro

32:14

section. Then the story got picked

32:17

up and distributed all over

32:19

the country. So that's

32:21

when the phone

32:23

calls almost broke the

32:25

tiny cassette tape in my

32:27

answering machine. The media

32:30

was Tanya crazy. One

32:32

TV station wanted to drive Lynn

32:34

to Nancy Kerrigan's house and

32:36

have her stand on the front lawn. She

32:39

declined. But Lynn did wanna

32:41

be on stage. To act, do comedy,

32:44

do something. She was only twenty

32:46

five and hadn't really figured out how

32:48

to make that happen. And

32:50

then she got a call from the King of

32:52

daytime TV.

32:58

When Gerardo called, to ask

33:00

me to be on the show. I called

33:02

my mom and I was like, Heraldo.

33:06

And she goes, oh god. Heraldo

33:13

was a kind

33:15

of middle brow rep investigative reporter.

33:21

He wanted her to play Tom on yet for their

33:23

infamous celebrity lookalike contest.

33:26

A limo came to drive us

33:28

to the

33:29

studio. We all trickled down to the lobby

33:31

one by one. So first, the Nancy look

33:33

alike, then the guy who looked exactly like

33:35

Joey about a fluco, and then

33:38

of course the Amy Fisher look alike.

33:42

The folks in the in the limo definitely

33:45

asked me wow, so

33:47

do you mind looking like Tanya

33:50

quiz, you know, clear, disdain. So

33:52

I was like, I don't know. What do you What do you think, Joey?

33:55

You know? Do you mind looking

33:57

like a dude to affair with a sixteen year

33:59

old. What's your story? Lynn killed

34:01

the Lookalike contest. And then her

34:03

all the asked her to come back to play Tanya

34:05

in a mock grand jury trial to

34:08

basically

34:09

determine her guilt.

34:12

So, you know, he opened the show, very

34:14

serious voice and very furrowed brow. You

34:16

know, ladies and gentlemen, you

34:18

know, this is a very special. Heralda, we

34:21

are here to actually consider

34:23

the evidence with the help of real

34:26

lawyers, and there is not conjecture here

34:28

folks. And

34:32

there were two lawyers that I remember.

34:34

One of them was the

34:37

the lady in the turban with a big jewel

34:39

in the front. And

34:41

she was very dramatic and

34:43

it felt like she had walked out of a

34:46

movie from some other time. Why

34:48

would they do such a thing? She's got every motive

34:50

in the world to destroy her rival. Of course,

34:52

she's got motive. She wants to win the goals.

34:55

The guy who played my lawyer was

34:58

Joey Butterfuko's actual

35:01

lawyer. It was the weirdest

35:03

thing. It was so weird. And

35:06

I was wearing my ice skates. I was wearing my skates

35:08

in the courtroom. And I

35:10

remember so clearly looking

35:13

around the

35:14

room, thinking to myself. Jesus,

35:17

where do they get these people? And

35:20

then came the Winter Olympics in Lillah

35:22

Hammer, the showdown everyone was

35:24

waiting for. Nancy versus

35:26

Tanya.

35:29

And you see Nancy and Tanya skayed

35:31

out onto the ice with,

35:34

you know, just feet between them

35:38

as they as they skated their circles warming

35:40

up and it is just the coldest,

35:42

tenses thing you have ever seen. Chinese

35:46

Olympic showing was pretty much a

35:47

disaster. The technical program reaches

35:49

back with a right foot, single.

35:55

She singled her triples. Like she was

35:59

uncomfortable, and I think she's gonna quit. She puts

36:01

her skid up on the boards, and she's pointing to

36:03

her boot, and she's pointed to her

36:05

coach, and she's kind of pointed back and forth

36:07

and upset. She'd

36:09

had a malfunction with the laces

36:12

on her

36:12

skate. She is just crying from

36:14

all the stress and the whole goddamn world is

36:16

making fun of her. Can you imagine? Man,

36:19

even all the times that I felt like what

36:21

I was doing was harmless. There's little

36:23

voice in my head

36:24

going, I'm so sorry, Tanya Tanya. I'm so sorry.

36:26

I'm so sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I'm so sorry.

36:30

Nancy cared didn't get gold, but

36:33

she did get silver. And that

36:35

Primus cemented her place as America's

36:37

sweetheart. Tanya lost.

36:40

She ended eighth. And that

36:42

was pretty much the end of

36:43

Tanya. I remember thinking,

36:46

this has been fun, and I hope Tanya forgives

36:48

me, but I can't ghost on this

36:50

forever. The

36:52

spotlight might have felt good for a minute,

36:54

but she decided was time to really

36:57

give it a go to finally move to

36:59

New York and take a crack at the comedy world

37:01

and she told herself she'd do it on

37:03

her own without Tanya.

37:07

So once I moved to Brooklyn, I

37:09

dyed my hair like a really beautiful, rich

37:13

chestnut brown. And

37:16

was making my own way until

37:18

one day when my roommates friend burst

37:22

in waving A

37:24

copy of Backstage Magazine.

37:29

He plops it down to the coffee table and he

37:31

jams his finger at this thing to be circled.

37:34

And it says something like

37:37

the musical enquirer, a

37:39

downtown musical in search of

37:41

new Tanya Harding, and

37:44

we all look up. And I'm like, oh, no.

37:47

What I lacked in

37:51

incredible talent I made up for in

37:53

looking exactly like Tanya. Being

37:56

Super Tanya was my asset. And,

38:00

you know, it's like, this is what you

38:02

do. This is what you do. You audition.

38:04

You get roles. You do it. And so

38:07

I auditioned, got

38:09

the part. Trudged

38:12

shamefully back to the hair salon. I was like

38:14

remember that beautiful brown hair dye

38:16

that you put in, you know, I said pointing to

38:18

my beautiful brown

38:19

head, they're like, yeah, I'm like, you gotta

38:21

take it out. Big

38:35

banks. The linen hair for her story.

38:37

Lynn is an author, a commentator, and a award

38:40

winning journalist, and a mostly retired

38:42

comedian. She also has a new business

38:44

teaching college to teenage girls to

38:46

learn more and watch her perform

38:48

and sing as Tanya Harding.

38:51

Check out our website. Stamp Judgment dot

38:53

ORG. Original score

38:55

and sound design by the amazing Liarmony

38:57

Moto. That store was produced

39:00

by Liz Mack. Now,

39:08

when the staff judgment rivals episode

39:11

continues. You've got love story

39:13

like you have never, ever, never, never,

39:15

never, never heard before. I

39:18

promise. Stay true.

39:36

Welcome back to Snap Judgment, The Rival's

39:38

episode. My name has been Washington

39:40

and today we're talking

39:42

to people who want the

39:44

same thing as someone else, but

39:48

what if you're rival? But he isn't

39:50

a people. After

39:53

a whirlwind romance, Brian

39:55

and Vanessa to get married and move to Kamshasa,

39:57

everything is going well. Until

40:00

she jels up.

40:06

Brian and I had just gotten engaged. And

40:09

it was a total well rimmed

40:12

romance. I mean, we

40:14

spent a ton of time on the

40:16

phone and we'd sent about thousand

40:18

emails, but the actual

40:21

time face to face that we

40:23

spent before we decided to get

40:25

married was about three weeks.

40:28

I quit my job and went to work

40:30

with him and,

40:32

you know, it was why we're working together

40:34

one day that she showed up.

40:39

She was totally beautiful. I

40:41

mean, she had this long dark

40:43

hair and these almond shaped eyes

40:46

And she just

40:49

knew what she was doing as well. I

40:51

mean, she would kind of like bat her eyelashes.

40:53

She had these ridiculously long eyelashes, she

40:55

would like that them. And

40:57

when she saw him, they just

40:59

had this moment where, like, time stopped.

41:02

They were just looking at each other. Right? And

41:04

then she kind of like sachet

41:07

passed him in this little way that she

41:09

had And, I mean,

41:11

from the second Brian saw

41:13

her, I just knew he was gone.

41:17

I would sort of, you know, walk

41:19

up and interrupt them kind of, like, giggling

41:21

together. And, you know, the heads kind

41:23

of really close and he would, like, whisk bar,

41:26

little secrets to her. It

41:29

was all just nauseating. They

41:36

called her Malo, which is sought for

41:38

Marie Luiz, and they

41:40

said that she was the international model

41:43

because she'd just come from Paris. She

41:46

was found in someone's hand luggage

41:49

going through the X-ray machine at

41:51

the Charles de Gaulle Airport. There

41:54

is a thriving international black

41:57

market for great apes, and

41:59

Malo was a bonobo. Bonobos

42:02

are an endangered species and there's probably,

42:05

you know, not enough left in the wild to fill

42:07

a football stadium. Mallou's

42:10

mother was killed and she was

42:12

probably taken from her dead body

42:14

and sold on this black

42:16

market to be destined to be somebody's

42:19

pet. No.

42:22

No. Brian

42:26

and I were working at Lolita Bonobo,

42:28

the world's only Bonobo sanctuary.

42:30

It's in this beautiful forest in

42:32

the middle of Kinshasa in the Congo.

42:36

We were studying our closest living relatives,

42:38

which is chimpanzees and bonobos. Trying

42:41

to find out what it is to be human.

42:44

Both humans and chimpanzees were

42:46

male dominated. We kill each other. We

42:48

beat our females. Sometimes, you know, we kill the

42:50

infants. And Bonobos who

42:53

are so similar to us

42:56

they don't kill each other,

42:58

and they're the only great ape that doesn't

43:00

kill each other.

43:05

When But no, boys fall in love with you,

43:07

it's a very specific experience.

43:09

It's not like the relationship you have

43:11

with like a cat or a dog. And

43:14

not like chimpanzees. I mean,

43:16

chimpanzees, they'll they'll just love anyone.

43:19

But Bonobos choose you.

43:22

Like, they one person. And

43:24

when they do, it's like a laser beam.

43:27

So when you turn up, it's like you're

43:29

all they can see and you're the most important

43:32

person in their world. I'd

43:35

fallen in love with Bonobos a ton of times

43:37

before. I mean, you know, I I Brian was always

43:39

laughing at me. Like, he was always kind of scornful

43:42

because he was the scientist. Like, he

43:44

was the real researcher and he loves

43:46

all apes for their minds. He

43:49

wasn't gonna sort of get sucked into this

43:51

kind of you know, eight hugging

43:54

type relationship. But

43:56

then when Maloo chose

43:59

him, he was just helpless.

44:08

My Lou is with all the other infant

44:11

bonobos. My Lou is only five or so.

44:13

And they hung out all

44:15

day in this sort of beautiful forest,

44:18

and so Brian would go up there and you'd squeeze

44:20

past this sort of little rocky

44:22

crevice and have to run

44:24

past the killer bees and hope they didn't wake up.

44:27

And, you know, there she would be

44:30

just kind of, you know, lounging

44:32

round in the leaves or, you

44:34

know, eating a mango or and

44:36

she would see him and her whole face would

44:38

just light up. But

44:43

as for me, I was the

44:45

other woman and she knew it. So

44:47

she would kind of, you know, squint her

44:49

eyes at me and give me dirty looks

44:52

and, you know, Brian didn't see any of it.

44:56

We used to eat breakfast outside on

44:58

the porch, and there was this one morning

45:00

where Maluma have been watching

45:03

us because as soon as Brian went inside

45:05

to to get something or go to the bathroom,

45:08

she ran down and just

45:10

knocked over my teeth. Storm my toes

45:12

and then ran off. And then later

45:15

on when I went to go up to the

45:17

nursery, like all my friends were there, the mamas,

45:19

they were these amazing women who took care

45:21

of these baby bonobos. And

45:23

I would be sitting with them, and Maloo would

45:26

just launch her herself

45:28

and just kick me in the head.

45:30

And then mama's, we just think it was hilarious.

45:33

There we go. But my mama lute

45:35

at that

45:35

desk. I mean, she hates you. And

45:38

they're like, shit. Come running from Kim

45:40

Shawson to kick you in the head.

45:49

I used to see Brian play

45:51

this game with her. We threw

45:53

her up into the air. As high

45:55

as he could. And I mean, he used to play baseball,

45:57

so I mean, he can pitch. And

45:59

she would just laugh. She would die laughing.

46:02

And she would go completely limp.

46:05

If she would be like seven feet in the air,

46:07

I mean, if Brian had dropped to her, she would have

46:09

broken her neck But she

46:12

knew that Brian would never,

46:14

ever, let her fall. That

46:17

no matter what, he would catch

46:19

her. And

46:21

it was this kind of trust

46:23

that for me, it taught

46:25

me what really

46:28

being in love. Was.

46:31

Because in order to be in love, you have to completely

46:33

trust that person even

46:36

though you know that

46:39

you don't have control on whether

46:41

they catch you or not. After

46:53

we left the sanctuary, Brian and I

46:55

moved to America. Maloo

46:57

kept growing, you know, kept

46:59

flourishing, and there was talk

47:01

of her being one of the Bonobos who

47:03

was gonna be released into the wild. I

47:08

still remember it was springtime in the

47:10

dogwoods for flowering, and I was

47:12

sitting outside at a cafe with one of my

47:14

friends. And my phone rings and it's

47:16

Brian. And his voice

47:18

sounds very strange as broken. He

47:22

just says, Maluz

47:25

died. I

47:27

could just hear it. I

47:30

knew then that he

47:33

would never love a Bueno

47:35

again like he loved Malu. He'll

47:39

never fall in love like that

47:41

again. A

47:45

few years later, I found out that

47:47

I was pregnant with our first

47:49

baby and she was a girl. And

47:52

so I I

47:54

asked him, I'm like, do you

47:56

wanna call him Maloo? And

48:00

he didn't say anything. But

48:03

he smiled. And

48:07

that's her

48:07

name. Thank

48:21

you, Vanessa Woods for sharing your

48:23

store to snap. Vanessa's tale comes

48:25

to us from the excellent podcast Love

48:27

Me. All the way from the CBC is

48:30

produced by Myra Bert Wintonic and

48:32

Crystal DuHain with Jody Taylor. Subscribe

48:35

to the lovely podcast. We'll have a link on our website.

48:38

Stamp judgment dot 0RG.

48:49

It's about that time. You

48:52

still need your story fixed well. I'm

48:54

the pushy man, and I forgot what

48:56

you mean. Full episodes of the amazing

48:59

Snap story time podcast available right

49:02

now on the podcast. Snap judgment

49:04

dot org. On YouTube, Spotify,

49:07

Google Play, Stitcher, wherever you get your podcast,

49:10

get yours, snap judgment dot org.

49:12

Snap was produced by the team that never displays

49:15

any rivalry. Let them know you feel

49:17

it. The Hulu's or Mark Ristage,

49:20

Patna City Miller and Assistant Rinal Gory

49:22

on Nancy Low has Joe Rosenberg and Eliza

49:25

Smith all big. Davey

49:27

Kim, Leon Marie Motoe. Adi's a egan

49:29

Liz Matt, tailored caught and Jasmine Aguilera

49:32

preferred to ZAGG and this. He's

49:35

not been loosed. No waste

49:37

is a loosing fact. Who'd agree

49:39

to an exhibition boxing match with your brother-in-law,

49:42

only to discover, there are

49:44

no gloves, No audience.

49:47

No ring. And that that guy ain't even

49:49

your brother-in-law, and you would still not

49:52

be as far away from the news as this is.

49:55

But this is PRX.