0:00

So I want to do something a little different with

0:02

this episode. I want to have a little bit of

0:04

a check-in with y'all. To,

0:08

I guess to put this in the timeline, episode

0:10

3 just came out and

0:13

so I've had the benefit of all

0:15

of the feedback from episodes 1 and

0:17

2 and then the feedback from

0:19

3 is trickling in and I have, first off,

0:21

I gotta say beyond grateful

0:23

and humbled and blown away by

0:26

the volume of messages

0:29

I've received through social media and then

0:31

also to the email address eric

0:34

at jeffsboss.com Some

0:36

really just wonderfully supportive things y'all have

0:39

said to me and I cannot appreciate

0:41

that and you enough clearly

0:44

if you guys don't listen to this podcast then

0:46

I don't get to make it and so I

0:50

am indebted to your ears and

0:52

to that accord I would also

0:54

add if you think this podcast might appeal to

0:56

somebody you know, I've never been

0:59

great at promoting my stuff I've

1:01

always kind of relied on word-of-mouth So if

1:03

you think that there's somebody I'm not I'm

1:05

not asking to tell everybody, you know to

1:07

listen to the podcast It's probably not for

1:09

everybody, but if there's like a person, you

1:11

know that you think might enjoy it Maybe

1:14

let them maybe let them know about it. Maybe

1:16

recommend an episode to them or not.

1:19

It's totally up to you I get it. Either way.

1:21

I appreciate y'all listening and Consider

1:23

myself lucky that we get to have this conversation together Which

1:26

is why I was so blown away

1:28

by all of the wonderful insights You

1:31

all sent me in addition to the

1:33

really positive feedback You've given me you've

1:35

also helped kind of elucidate some

1:38

of the finer points of the things that we've talked about and I

1:40

realized there is a Need for for

1:42

me to then take the information

1:44

that I received I I talk about stuff that

1:46

I find interesting David McWilliams Flamingo Street, whatever and

1:48

then y'all fill in the gaps for me and

1:50

I don't want to just hold on to this

1:52

new information I feel like I need to share

1:54

it back with you So I think every once

1:57

in a while I'll do an episode like this

1:59

where I'll just compile Pile all the really interesting

2:01

shit y'all have given me and then

2:04

parse through it and share

2:07

it back with you. First things first, I feel

2:10

like I now know everything there is to know

2:12

about David McWilliams. Not

2:14

only did I receive multiple emails

2:16

explaining more about him, his history,

2:18

his life, even some great stuff

2:20

about the Bachelors, I

2:24

also received photos. For

2:26

instance, here's this dude Ben who

2:29

I can't believe messaged me because I'm not going

2:31

to read the whole email because it's pretty wordy

2:33

and I want to read a few more as

2:35

well, but I'm going to read some really interesting

2:37

stuff that he sent me. Ben is

2:39

in Ireland. He said, Jeff

2:41

Hope Hall as well, really enjoyed the first

2:43

episode, yada, yada, yada. And

2:46

then he said, my colleagues and I have

2:49

a special connection to David. We work in

2:51

a building called the Oh Yeah! Artic Center

2:53

in Belfast, Northern Ireland, which is a museum

2:55

recording studio venue and more. And

2:58

one of the musicians that they honor, the most

3:00

highly, I'm paraphrasing here, is David

3:02

McWilliams. And then he included attached museum

3:05

images, which I will put up on the

3:07

Instagram account and they tell the story of

3:10

David McWilliams. It's like museum displays and it's

3:12

really fascinating. And you could learn so much

3:15

interesting shit about this guy who as Ben

3:17

puts it is sort of a Woody Guthrie

3:19

type character in Belfast and the surrounding areas

3:22

and mentioned how surprised

3:24

he was to hear me talking about him. I guess that

3:27

must have been oddly localized for you. He

3:29

mentioned, and I'll just read what he says

3:31

here. You noted that the track was reminiscent

3:33

of Townes Van Zandt and you're not totally

3:36

wrong. Well, thanks Ben. In

3:38

fact, Woody, Townes, Dylan, etc. have all

3:40

credited acts like the Clancy brothers, the

3:42

Dubliners and Liam Weldon as huge inspirations

3:44

in their original music, all of whom

3:46

are legacy iconic Iris

3:49

folk and traditional music acts.

3:51

These acts all would have played an

3:53

instrumental part in shaping David's trajectory as

3:56

an artist also due to

3:58

oral traditions of sharing music and Ireland. pre-mass

4:00

production of vinyl records across the Atlantic. So

4:02

what you're hearing that's similar to Van Zant

4:04

is likely a legacy of the influence of

4:07

legendary Irish folk musicians. And

4:09

I have some other emails similarly that kind

4:11

of expound upon that. He talks

4:13

a lot about the interesting traditions. This

4:16

is really cool. And he

4:19

says, side note, many of the instruments

4:21

and melodies used in traditional US country

4:23

folk Americana, Appalachian folk, are

4:25

from Ireland. The fiddle and the

4:27

banjo, I guess, are traditional Irish

4:29

instruments. I had no idea. And

4:31

I guess they made their way

4:33

to America during mass migration. And

4:36

in fact, the people... This is the craziest part

4:38

to me. In fact, the

4:40

people who played these instruments and

4:43

moved out into the hills and

4:45

mountains of the East Coast were

4:47

former supporters of King William of

4:49

Orange, the sovereign region of Ireland,

4:51

who completed the colonization of the

4:54

Ireland after defeating King James. King

4:56

William was known colloquially as King

4:58

Billy, which is where hillbillies originates

5:00

from because they were supporters

5:03

of King William known as Billy and they

5:05

lived in the hills, hillbilly. I'm

5:07

gonna take that as gospel. I'm gonna take that as

5:09

100% true because

5:11

I trust Ben and that's pretty fucking wild.

5:14

And then Ben tells me... I know I said

5:16

that that was the craziest thing. Then Ben tells

5:18

me the real craziest thing. He's the

5:20

only one who gave me this bit of information. And so

5:23

Ben, I am indebted to you. You've

5:25

answered a question that I posed that I never thought

5:27

I'd get the answer to. And that answer is Flamingo

5:31

Street actually refers to a

5:33

now renamed avenue in Ballymena,

5:35

the home of McWilliams. A

5:38

small rural town on the outskirts of Belfast,

5:41

capital of Northern Ireland, Ballymena saw

5:43

particularly vicious fighting and pogroms... What

5:46

is a pogrom? A pogrom is

5:48

an organized massacre of a particular

5:50

ethnic group. In particular... Oh

5:53

gosh. Ugh. Ugh.

5:55

Okay, he said... Ballymena

5:59

saw some... particularly vicious fighting and pogroms during

6:01

the Northern Irish Civil War known internationally as

6:03

the Troubles between 1968 and 1996 which led

6:05

to a rather destitute feeling in the town

6:08

that resulted

6:12

in an uncommonly high percentage of

6:14

substance abuse and self-harm that has

6:16

persisted to this day. Flamingo Street

6:18

now called Balimony Street was the

6:20

home of the Flamingo Ballroom, a

6:22

legendary venue that hosted everyone from

6:24

the Rolling Stones to Thin Lizzy

6:26

and would have been where McWilliams

6:29

cut his teeth as a young player

6:31

in the show bands and also as a solo singer.

6:33

It was also famous for serving hot dogs

6:35

and milkshakes instead of alcohol. I do love

6:37

a hot dog. You know that's interesting because two

6:39

of the best hot dogs I've ever had in

6:42

my entire life, one was in Iceland. Millie and

6:44

I went on vacation to Iceland and we had

6:46

like their local Reykjavik hot dog. They do this

6:48

thing with the onions where they cut up the

6:50

onion and fry them and it's... I've never had...

6:52

I've tried to make it at home. I've never

6:54

come close. I've never had it anywhere else in

6:57

the world like they have it there. And then

6:59

I think we've talked about this throughout the

7:02

history of Roost Teeth but Bernie and Gavin

7:05

and I, Bernie and Joel and I, Bernie and

7:07

somebody and I went... We went to Edinburgh one

7:09

time for a work trip and we found a

7:12

hot dog trailer there that had easily the best

7:14

hot dog I've ever had in my entire life

7:17

and I still think about it

7:19

to this day. So if the best

7:21

two hot dogs I've ever had are

7:23

from Iceland and Scotland then maybe Ireland

7:26

completes the triangle, the trifecta of phenomenal

7:28

hot dogs and so someday I hope

7:31

to have an Irish hot dog. And now

7:33

I know that if I go to

7:35

Bally Money Street I can actually step

7:38

foot on Flamingo Street because it's a

7:40

real place. It doesn't exist anymore but

7:42

the streets still exist, the place still

7:44

exists. Ben, Ben,

7:47

you have no idea the service you've done

7:49

for me by telling me that information. I

7:51

thank you, thank you, thank you. So

7:58

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right. And

10:49

now I'm gonna thank Jake, because

10:52

he expounded upon the country influence

10:54

in David McWilliams, which I thought

10:56

was really fantastic. He

10:59

said that McWilliams was known to tour the band

11:01

called the Dubliners, which was another Irish folk group

11:03

that wrote a fair number of decent hits for

11:05

the time. They also covered and subsequently popularized a

11:07

bunch of Irish folk song, why am

11:10

I having trouble saying that? Irish folk songs

11:12

from decades prior. More contemporary Irish bands like

11:14

the Kilkennies and the Maguire Brothers have recently

11:16

covered a lot of their stuff with a

11:18

bit more of a rock tilt and Irish

11:21

American bands like Dropkick Murphys were strongly influenced

11:23

by them and other similar bands of the

11:25

time. That's really interesting to know.

11:27

Then he goes on, he says, the fact

11:29

that McWilliams sounds sort of like an American

11:31

country folk singer isn't coincidental. Country is a

11:34

genre and Appalachian folk in particular, this is

11:36

going back to what Ben was saying, owes

11:38

its existence largely to two earlier genres of

11:40

music. A huge influence is early African

11:42

American blues and folk. They brought the

11:44

banjo into play as well as many

11:46

other styles and sounds we associate with

11:48

the genre today. The other influence is

11:50

Irish and Scottish folk brought over by

11:52

early immigrants from those areas into Appalachia.

11:54

They brought over the fiddle and the

11:56

ballads as a style of song. That's

11:59

so fucking. cool. I love

12:01

getting to know the genesis of things.

12:04

And I feel like we don't spend enough

12:06

time recognizing and

12:09

appreciating how things

12:11

come to be. And he goes on

12:13

to say, the whole history is really fascinating and I

12:15

definitely recommend you dive into it when you have some

12:17

spare time. Another semi-related genre

12:20

that you might find interesting is Caribbean folk. I

12:22

don't know anything about Caribbean folk, but Jake, I

12:24

promise you, I'm going to look into it. The

12:26

next email I want to cover is from one

12:28

of my favorite people in the Rooster Teeth community,

12:30

the great Peter Hayes. And he answered another question

12:32

that was burning a hole in my brain. David

12:36

McWilliams wrote the song. And

12:38

Peter says, he was signed with major, minor records

12:41

who had a distribution deal with another record label,

12:43

which then used a different record label for distribution

12:46

in the US and Canada and Latin America, and

12:48

then selectively in the UK for some releases. So

12:50

the bachelors were signed to London Records and that's

12:52

how they got the song since music in the

12:54

60s was shared widely around labels to try and

12:57

find the best fit for the song and the

12:59

singer prime example being Son of a Preacher Man,

13:01

a song written with Aretha Franklin in mind taken

13:04

by Jerry Wexler, then given to Dusty

13:06

Springfield, who then gave it back to

13:08

Aretha. So songs were shopped

13:10

around, but David definitely wrote the song, which makes

13:12

a lot of sense because like I said, it

13:15

is so far out of left field for everything

13:17

else the bachelors have ever recorded. He also

13:19

says the song's country vibe is in the

13:22

trick. So he's further reinforcing what Jake and

13:25

Ben said. The guitar uses a classic country

13:27

driving rhythm, which imparts a bounce that the

13:29

listener can feel akin to that of a

13:31

cowboy riding a horse. And if that is

13:34

not the perfect way to describe what I

13:36

was very poorly

13:38

trying to describe, Peter

13:40

absolutely nails it. That is exactly what it feels

13:42

like. It's that bounce that you

13:44

can feel it and it just feels like

13:46

cowboy shit. He

13:49

says, but what it more accurately represents

13:51

and what I believe is the musical

13:53

influence is a pan European cinematic sound

13:55

Spanish guitar with British orchestral tension wrapped

13:57

up in Italian dramatics. I'll

14:00

be honest that's way over my head,

14:02

but it sounds right and it sounds

14:04

very cool He says those three abstracts

14:07

of music consumption whether wholly used or

14:09

not Dominated all of Europe's

14:11

music in that period and what would

14:13

be classed as popular music then he

14:15

actually recommends that you go and

14:17

listen to Eurovision songs from 1960 to

14:19

1975 Because

14:21

it'll give a broad overview of that sound and

14:24

how it came to be and how it dominated

14:26

the European landscape Which I think is a great

14:28

idea and I absolutely want to do that someday.

14:30

Oh also Peter

14:32

let me know flamingos are not native to Ireland.

14:34

They do have sub in the Dublin Zoo among

14:37

many other great animals I I

14:40

didn't think that they were were actually Native

14:43

to Ireland. I was just kind of fucking around there, but

14:45

it's good to know That

14:48

they're not so there you have it that

14:51

answers like just about every question I had

14:53

about David McWilliams every question I posed to

14:55

y'all eight questions I didn't think I would

14:57

ever get the answer to but thanks to

14:59

Peter and Jake and

15:02

then I now know

15:04

quite a bit about David McWilliams

15:08

And I am indebted to you for that. Thank you very much While

15:11

we're doing a little bit of house cleaning I

15:13

should also mention I promised that I was gonna

15:15

read the house on mango Street And then I

15:17

received a ton a ton of email from You

15:21

out there telling me that you read it in

15:23

high school or in middle school and that you

15:25

loved it or hated it or didn't Connect with

15:27

it or went back and read it years later

15:29

and got it. It sounds like it is a

15:31

pretty polarizing book So I decided

15:33

to sit down and read it It's by

15:35

Sandra Cisneros and it was called the

15:38

house on mango Street and it's required reading for a

15:40

lot of high schools and it's

15:42

also It's also showing

15:44

up on book band lists, which is

15:46

terrifying because I read that book

15:49

and it is a Short

15:51

book it is a quick read.

15:54

I read it in two sittings. I read

15:56

on a Kindle So I'm not sure how many pages it is

15:59

in a book for but it was about

16:01

110 pages. And like I said, very

16:03

quick read. It's a story of

16:06

a young Hispanic girl growing up in a place called

16:08

Mango Street in Chicago.

16:11

And it is told through very simple vignettes

16:15

and memories of her life and experiences.

16:17

And there's some time skipping here

16:20

and there, but it is mostly just

16:22

a record of fragments of her life.

16:25

And I absolutely

16:28

loved it. It's written in a

16:30

style that the

16:32

content and the prose is very, very

16:34

different from this. But the

16:37

style that she writes in is

16:40

reminiscent of, honestly, of

16:42

Charles Bukowski to me in the way that they

16:44

both have a very spare,

16:48

blunt, honest

16:50

way that they

16:52

write where it's...

16:55

I don't know how to... It's like the

16:58

beauty is in how sparsely

17:01

worded things are, how

17:04

in your face and kind of just there it

17:07

is. It's not florid. I

17:10

don't think that Sandra Cisneros or

17:13

Charles Bukowski, who I don't know if

17:15

they get compared a lot, but I

17:17

don't think either of them ever throws

17:19

in an extra word. Like the way

17:21

both of those people write, it's so

17:24

precise and it's

17:26

like they're doing a maximum

17:29

amount of storytelling

17:33

and setting with a minimum

17:35

amount of words. And it's really...

17:38

It makes it incredibly easy to read.

17:40

It makes it incredibly

17:42

fast to read. And it does something, at

17:45

least to me, where it just makes it

17:47

explode in your head as you are able

17:49

to imagine what they're talking about.

17:52

And I found that both of them...

17:55

I think the nice thing about the way it's

17:57

written is just how clearly you can see and

17:59

picture... and understand things in

18:02

your mind. And also, by the way,

18:05

a lot of people wrote me and thank you so much for

18:07

writing me and telling me to read the book or telling me

18:09

you love the book, telling me you didn't like the book. For

18:11

anybody that didn't enjoy the book when you

18:13

read it in high school, a lot of people said they had

18:16

trouble understanding or connecting with the character. I

18:18

Esperanza, I guess I

18:21

recommend you read it now because it's,

18:25

I think, I mean, I don't know how

18:27

to relate. I'm a 48-year-old white guy and

18:29

it's the story of who grew up in

18:31

Alabama and it's the story of an inner

18:33

city young Hispanic woman. And

18:35

that's a perspective I'll never get

18:38

on my own. Like I'll never

18:40

know what it feels like. I'm even reading the

18:42

book. I'll never know what it feels like. But

18:44

what a window into the mind of a different

18:47

experience of a different life lived. What

18:51

a window into the way the world works. I

18:53

mean, I'm a dad, right? I have almost 18.

18:56

She might be 18 by the time this episode

18:58

comes out. I'll never know what it's like to

19:00

be my daughter. I'll never know what it's like

19:02

to be a woman. I'll never know what it's

19:04

like to grow up and go through puberty as

19:06

a girl. My experience is completely and totally different.

19:08

I'll never know what it's like to be Hispanic

19:10

in an inner city. And I think that that's

19:12

what is so wonderful about this book is you

19:14

get to understand a little bit

19:17

of the reality

19:19

of what that life lived

19:22

was like, the pain and the

19:24

fear and the joy

19:26

and the hope and the perseverance

19:28

and the strength that are present

19:30

in that book are prized

19:35

and really appreciate it. It's

19:37

a raw and honest telling. And some of it is

19:39

jarring and some of it is beautiful and some of

19:41

it is painful, but it's all powerful

19:43

and poignant. And I really recommend

19:46

everybody, especially if you read it when you were

19:48

younger and you didn't understand it, maybe give it

19:51

a shot again now, now that

19:53

you're a little older and maybe have it can see it

19:55

from a different light because I thought it was a really

19:57

powerful book and I'm really, really, really glad I read it.

20:00

And I encourage everybody else to as well. One

20:03

other thing I did the whole who

20:05

shot JR episode. I've mentioned in it that throughout the

20:07

course of it, I ended up watching a couple of

20:09

episodes and I thought, well, maybe, maybe watch one or

20:11

two more. Well, Emily got into it. And

20:14

when Emily got into it, I by proxy

20:16

got into it. And we are now on

20:18

season six of Dallas. And let me tell

20:20

you, I had no idea

20:22

how good that show was my

20:26

entire life. I can't believe I

20:28

slept on Dallas for 48 fucking years. I

20:32

clearly, I was too young to appreciate it when it came out,

20:35

but it's so good.

20:37

It is so good. And let me

20:39

tell you, it gets better and better.

20:42

The season five finale and then the

20:44

start of season six have been tremendous.

20:46

It is taking over our family. It is taking,

20:49

Emily and I watch it every night before we

20:51

go to bed. And I'm only sad that I

20:53

only have another 3000 episodes to

20:55

go through because there are 30 episode

20:57

seasons and there's like 12 seasons. It's

21:01

insane. And then there's

21:03

the reunions and shit after we could

21:05

get into depending on how we feel

21:07

after another four billion

21:09

hours of it. But I seriously, I was

21:11

joking around about it, but everybody should watch

21:13

Dallas. It is good. And if

21:16

you ever wanna hear us talk about it,

21:18

every Monday I do a live show over

21:20

on the Fuckface YouTube channel where

21:22

I open up cards. It's called the

21:25

Break Show. Sports cards, non-sports cards, silly,

21:27

weird stuff, Beavis and Budhead cards, Umbrella

21:30

Academy, baseball, whatever.

21:33

And we have gotten into some Dallas cards lately. And so

21:35

every episode we open up one or two packs and then

21:37

Emily and I just talk about

21:39

Dallas and make jokes about Dallas. So if you're

21:41

a Dallas stan, meet us on Mondays at

21:44

4 p.m. and we'll

21:46

entertain ya. I

21:48

guess that'll do it. I'll

21:51

probably make another one of these when you

21:53

guys send me enough interesting information that I

21:55

feel compelled to share. I'll

21:57

see you next time. All right.

22:10

This is Red Web, a podcast

22:12

all about mysteries, true crime, and

22:14

the paranormal. Join hosts Trevor Collins

22:16

and Alfredo Diaz as they uncover

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a new unsolved mystery every week

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discussing the background and theories behind

22:22

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22:25

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