Cedric Johnson contests virtually every aspect of our current left-socialist consensus on policing in the U.S.: its origins in slavery and Jim Crow, the problem of police unions, even the possibility of a police-free society. We recorded this conversation a few weeks ago at the height of the protests, and now that those have cooled a bit, Johnson’s arguments may receive a fairer hearing. Johnson is Associate Professor of Political Science and African American Studies at the University of Illinois in Chicago. His most recent books include the 2011 edited volume The Neoliberal Deluge: Hurricane Katrina, Late Capitalism and the Remaking of New Orleans (University of Minnesota Press, 2011), and Revolutionaries to Race Leaders: Black Power and the Making of African American Politics (University of Minnesota Press, 2007). Our conversation is based on Johnson’s chapter “Trumpism, policing and the problem of surplus population”, in the new book Labor in the time of Trump. We’re joined by one of the editors of this book, Clare Hammonds, who appeared earlier in Episode 7 of this podcast. Hammonds is Professor of Practice and Graduate Program Director at the UMass Amherst Labor Center.

See also Johnson's "The Panthers can't save us now," Catalyst Spring 2017.