0:19

Hi there and welcome to So to

0:21

check on Songwriting Episode Two Hundred and

0:23

Sixty Two This is Brian accompanied as

0:25

ever by Simon and with us today,

0:27

is a multi grammy winning American singer

0:29

songwriter and musician who first rose to

0:31

prominence as front woman and principal songwriter

0:33

of Blues rock is Alabama Shakes. Since.

0:36

That been went on indefinite hiatus and

0:38

Twenty Eighteen Cheese be carving out an

0:40

impressive solo career. And as this episode

0:43

reaches you, she's just released a second

0:45

album, The Mesmerizing What Now Co produce

0:47

with frequent collaborator Shown I've written and

0:50

recorded in their adopted hometown of

0:52

Nashville. We. Are thrilled to welcome

0:54

the sensational Britney Howard to the

0:56

show. Britney. Was born in Nineteen

0:58

Eighty Eight in Athens, North Alabama where she

1:00

grew up on a farm surrounded by a

1:02

junkyard hit that was used car salesman. She.

1:05

Was singing from the tender age of three, often

1:07

sitting in with their uncle a dance bluegrass band

1:09

she also listen to will have Elvis Presley with

1:11

a grandma while I parents are huge Prince fans

1:13

and rightly so. With. The encouragement of

1:16

a hugely influential elder sister Jamie the

1:18

on britney lead to play keys and

1:20

drums and bass a harassed or when

1:22

she was around eleven. Not. Content

1:24

with that and inspired by watching a

1:26

high school band called Stone Phillips which

1:28

featured future Alabama Shakes guitarist He Fog.

1:31

Pretty. Tall to sell to play guitar by

1:33

ear on his sister's replica Les Paul and

1:35

was soon writing songs on plane and various

1:37

high school bands. By. This time she

1:40

developed an affinity for heavy rock and

1:42

Prague, particularly Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Yes,

1:44

and Pink Floyd. August. Cofounded

1:46

Alabama Shakes originally called The Shakes and

1:48

Two Thousand and Nine with he thought

1:51

basis to Zoc Cockrell, another high school

1:53

chum and trauma, Steve Johnson. They performed

1:55

regularly at Se bars and clubs, starting

1:57

out as more of a cover band.

2:00

Got to be waking their own material into the says. They.

2:02

Eventually came to the attention of the wider

2:04

listening public and Twenty eleventh when they songs

2:06

you Ain't Alone was shared on the Aquarium

2:08

Tilted music blogs by It's Found That Disengage.

2:11

Not. Long after that truck by truck is

2:13

from month patterson haute saw them play in

2:15

Florence, Alabama and hook them up with this

2:17

management's southern which they business to fight a

2:20

T O Records. The. Long playing Debut:

2:22

Twenty Twelve Boys and Girls when top ten

2:24

in the Us and Uk. While. The

2:26

follow up, Twenty Fifteen Sounds and Collect

2:28

Purses Replace Mills debuted at number one

2:31

in the Billboard Chart and one three

2:33

Grammys including best Alternative Music Albums and

2:35

best Rock Songs for Don't Want To

2:37

Fight. Or this time where

2:39

the Britain is considerable vocal, prowestern, electrifying

2:42

states presence had reached high places. That

2:44

same yes, Britney performed live on stage

2:46

with both Paul Mccartney, A Coat Sell

2:48

Us and Prince supposedly park. Think.

2:50

I was happily retired. So that

2:53

double whammy? Yep. Same. A

2:55

Yale A set with Alabama Shakes on Ice

2:57

For the foreseeable, Britney dropped her first solo

2:59

album, self produced, genre defying and critically acclaimed

3:01

James name. Fairly tell the sister who passed

3:04

away from Britain. he was just nice. Included

3:06

on that records the song Say Hi

3:08

Which and August Twenty Twenty One Grams

3:11

of best Rock Songs Of the projects

3:13

over the years include The Garbage Rock

3:15

Combo, Some Debates Formed in Nashville, and

3:17

Twenty Twelve with members of Fly Golden

3:19

Eagles, The Clear Plastic Masks and The

3:21

Country Asked Trio Bermuda Triangle with solo

3:23

singer songwriters. Just He Left Sat on

3:25

best among Cari. If you're new

3:27

to the So the Jackpot tests on you

3:29

like what yes make sure you follow us

3:32

on epoch platform of choice so don't miss

3:34

any future episodes. and though forgets browser back

3:36

catalogue of over two hundred and fifty interviews

3:38

with great some places like that me the

3:40

show is a fully independent and sponsor free

3:42

endeavor to if you'd like to help us

3:44

keep it that way if one of these

3:47

and spare so dejected.com/them this. Before

3:49

we move on or thanks to John for

3:51

hisself set missile. Okay, we hope you enjoy

3:53

our conversation with the awesome. And

4:36

we're hot assist assist us who

4:39

smugly to see his thanks for

4:41

being on the podcast with this,

4:43

I'm happy to be at and

4:45

seven it. We'd. Be living with

4:47

what now for the last couple of weeks would

4:49

officially cook something. Oh. My God Thank

4:51

You! So my it's F. K away it's

4:53

almost time for to come out. Quite. An ambiguous

4:56

title lock now isn't a it's on

4:58

the one hand, the could suggests sort

5:00

of exasperated sooner and every some were

5:02

bombarded with these days, but then on

5:04

the other hand, he could mean new

5:06

horizons and and possibilities to. Yeah.

5:08

Mean that that's accurate. The title tenants him

5:11

from. Everything we went through

5:13

collectively. Just as a pandemic and that was

5:15

scary. But there was also like. We. Spend our

5:17

time alone and you know we spend my

5:19

time alone. Starlight. Become. An introspective.

5:22

And. It's also exhausting. So. Yeah

5:24

the title can as a double meaning

5:26

what now what else is gonna take

5:28

place next and also have a has

5:31

do with where I'm at now. And.

5:33

What kind of will kind of music

5:35

I'm interested in creating? Of. The

5:37

it's a good thing too, since his own

5:39

predictability built into the. Site. Allowed

5:41

me to the album's well like I could

5:43

never really quite so what was coming next

5:45

not only just from track to check but

5:48

with the meet some as well as both

5:50

said perfect. says. As fast as

5:52

as exactly how I wanted it to V

5:54

and that kind of why are you know

5:56

throughout the album, There's. The sound bowls

5:58

of time in between. It's. And.

6:00

The purpose of those is Canada cleanse the

6:03

palate like a sorbet. Because.

6:05

You don't know what's coming next and instead

6:07

of putting a sex right next to that,

6:10

it's a calico whiplash. So this is little

6:12

samples in between the tennis I bring you

6:14

back down season take off again. Yeah, it's

6:16

rare for an album these days to take

6:19

the listener on the some massive Jamie like

6:21

this one those yeah and it's gonna miss

6:23

it. I remember being a teenager and getting

6:25

Cds. Sometimes they'll be little skits. As

6:28

this on a hip hop albums of biscuits

6:30

I will always love to skits and the

6:32

idea of that's because it really brings the

6:35

listener like into the personality of the artists.

6:37

I was love that news. It's

6:39

especially albums been like. Such.

6:42

An experience. So it sounds like it was

6:44

quite a lot of experimentation with sounds in

6:46

general on this record. Or yeah, see, That's

6:48

the fun part. As. Deathly. The fun

6:50

part Like me I saw Never It Who

6:53

Are engineered the album. We have

6:55

the best time! Doing. Ridiculous

6:57

things. Like. Was as giggling

6:59

when we're putting together the songs like

7:01

people have no idea so he's helping

7:03

you find all those odds sonic textures

7:05

that you're looking for for sure. I

7:08

think it's definitely a group effort. I

7:10

love the ability to be creative. And

7:13

I'm. Never have any ideas

7:15

sat down like when I'm working with

7:17

sciences. So open. To. Everything.

7:20

Any. Possibility and is the guy that knows how

7:22

to make it work, how to make it happen,

7:24

Like. That have said, assign like quo.

7:26

I love the sound of the keyboard

7:28

but it's just a little light pale

7:31

as think it should be a little

7:33

deeper. Isn't that a maroon in I'm

7:35

Saying And sunset Yes. Holy get that

7:37

Any of you know we're producing together

7:39

like that laugh. So the discovery of

7:42

sit sounds all combinations of sounds may

7:44

be pushed, the songs and it unexpected

7:46

directions does that pressure a meme? One.

7:48

Of the songs on the album is called I

7:51

don't. And it started off

7:53

as this kind of like a

7:55

straightforward Our Souls song. And

7:57

I liked it because of the lyrical content.

8:00

It. Sounds so lovely and happy. And

8:02

maybe if someone didn't speak English those spoke of

8:04

the song must be like a love song. But.

8:07

Really it's is talking about how depressing it

8:09

as select work everyday. A sense is

8:11

is forget to have fun. You know. I

8:13

was a call to write. A song like that? And

8:15

it started off one way and

8:18

ended up with a slight Senate

8:20

Chipmunks Soul thing with lights. Really?

8:22

Large base on it, like a really large

8:24

kick drum. And. I'm. The

8:26

way we got there was so out of the way.

8:29

it was like that took the. Demo

8:31

And put the demo on this medici

8:33

board. And. Our sample is

8:35

part of the song. Until we

8:37

had this whole new structure is Homer tempo.

8:40

And Homers Sound. So. A that

8:42

was like a discovery we made. You have reuse

8:44

it sounds is not ways quite interesting. I

8:47

like the way used to have my iran to

8:49

leave. Because. Into the into the

8:51

before. Another day for that worked really well

8:53

as well. Yeah. For. Sure

8:55

thank you is you know I was like cleaning my

8:58

house is earn a pandemic. And I

9:00

like to hear people speak have like a playlist.

9:02

The Maya Angelou on of really like the tambor

9:04

for voice. And loses on auto

9:06

play on in a you tube. I

9:08

remember distinctly as a cleaning their baseboards

9:10

in this house. Because. I do

9:13

that and out and started getting the

9:15

speech and it was is really hit

9:17

me hard specially for the times we

9:19

ran. The. World some that goes on fire.

9:22

This is talking about How Adam.

9:24

The. Human beings are capable so much

9:27

destruction before also capable some as

9:29

creativity is. It really does kind

9:31

of depends on where you're putting your your mind

9:33

and focus and energy to. Which sounds

9:35

simple course but like the way she said

9:37

was so eloquent and I thought it was

9:40

so courageous. To. Say that and front

9:42

of. All of his mighty

9:44

nations in the world. Him. And

9:46

it inspired me to actually write another

9:48

day. So. I'm. I.

9:51

Wanted a. Share. That with listeners,

9:53

maybe people who hadn't heard it and I hope

9:55

later they'll go back and listen to the whole

9:57

speech. Without. Deeply inspiring and I

9:59

got us. Out of it he a voice

10:01

works really well set to music doesn't It's it's

10:03

own of it. Reminds me of them Was abandoned

10:05

the early nineties. Cold books up with songs. It

10:08

was a brown from Marseilles side projects and

10:10

he sets. I know why the Caged Bird

10:12

sings a recording of Had Do In That

10:15

to music. Yes he has a great voice.

10:17

This is axes to be a singer as

10:19

well. Ah right as know the as the

10:21

way you sounds as fascinates me. I'm really

10:23

love from. What? You do on the title

10:25

track as wow. Where. You double the

10:27

melody. Couldn't sell was it was so

10:30

that over to the guitar was was some since

10:32

in them as well both I just moved. the

10:34

way that works. Ah thank you Yeah when you

10:36

get to the core sex and there is a

10:38

guitar. Doubling. The melody and it

10:40

was. just give it some gravel. You

10:43

know, I just wanted everything on it sound sound

10:45

very or that. And. That definitely helped

10:47

set that up. Their. Pre atmosphere

10:49

on that truck. it's very muscular I

10:51

would say. That and

10:53

also would say it's mechanical. The.

10:56

Way everything in our lox and

10:58

ten reminds me of gears or

11:00

like of a motorcycle. Or the

11:03

way Combustion works. Everything has

11:05

to be in his exact right spot.

11:07

For. It to work. And

11:09

for it to set the mood. It. Actually

11:12

kind of reminded me of late

11:14

eighties early nineties. Like. Robocop

11:17

or Terminator. Or

11:19

something like that. The Matrix, even rice.

11:21

Yeah ah sir, I supposed to use

11:23

a successful of yeah there's like an

11:25

emotional way as soon as well you

11:28

know you say some to might have

11:30

been making plans that don't include you

11:32

anymore. Does. Like this crushing town.

11:34

A confession in there as well which

11:36

are things and for sizes the cannon

11:39

moved as well. Overall. Yeah. Said

11:41

overall mood fat sandwich is funny to discover

11:43

more pops up than I'm used to writing.

11:46

But. The overall mood was so brutal.

11:48

So. I just had to lyrically ten of

11:50

than sending with the fatalities. And

11:53

that size. And that. Now

12:26

on. To

12:29

the Library races and and unusual

12:31

grooves and drone thoughts on the

12:33

record in there Like Red Flags

12:35

is good example and and another

12:37

day in particular that's nice. Smith

12:39

on the drums is it. Doesn't.

12:42

Need played those parts. Of our

12:44

say at this point I'm a drummer

12:46

at heart. I used to be

12:48

a drummer but our player may more for some

12:50

reason. But. I I do love

12:52

programming drums. I like doing interesting things,

12:55

timing, and things like have actually physically

12:57

play. So. Those drum

12:59

parts came in from my demos.

13:01

And. They were program from parts and I was saying my

13:04

head but. Adult and mates can build

13:06

say this. I'm a boy,

13:08

was I wrong. Amulet examiner elicits a

13:10

one time and split the whole truck.

13:12

I've never seen anybody do that before,

13:14

so all those performances in here are

13:16

lived from. Sex played by Naismith. And.

13:18

Even to this day when I was in his

13:20

tracks, My mind is absolutely blown. Some.

13:23

Me his is the best drama in a world. Because

13:25

it's more than technicality. For. Me as

13:27

at the emotionality at was he plays which

13:29

makes him with really units. Yeah. It's

13:32

quite necessary. Almost lyrical style is amiss.

13:34

Yeah. That. Is very expressive drummer

13:37

and I'm our disposal. Preferred Sisters

13:39

Expose them. To. This day. It's.

13:41

Amazing every turn around him. I'm kind of just.

13:44

A Know. Maybe. It's happiness. That.

13:46

As consistency so you're kind of

13:48

experience as a drummer your understanding

13:50

of written informed that way that

13:52

those beats if you like a

13:54

programs and then he's taken that

13:56

and treats to performs from. Yeah.

13:59

It's kind how works there So most

14:01

of the songs pretty much completed before

14:04

he took them into the studio or

14:06

was the said amounts of right in

14:08

turn on the fly during the recording

14:10

process I'd say is. Maybe.

14:13

One song was finish that abroad to the

14:15

city. Oh and the rest were existences. As

14:17

like I like this idea that sir where to go with

14:19

it. I. Like the first song an

14:21

album or song I had like thirty seconds

14:23

is just an idea and to me this

14:26

is a simple idea and it was kind

14:28

of exciting to go into the studio. Would.

14:30

Have never done this before. has always had a blueprint

14:32

for how one of things to sound. So.

14:34

That really interests and going to studio and haven't

14:37

to discover things a real time was I know

14:39

a lot of people do but this is not

14:41

something that I was accustomed to. But.

14:43

Did all his must have. That isn't about that. I

14:45

was a. Freaking. Out. Smoked

14:48

I thought I would have thought I

14:50

would be panicking because I have of

14:52

is paid musicians and Ceo and I'm

14:55

on studio time and and has sign

14:57

here. But. Was exegesis. Super

14:59

fun, You know? discovering. News.

15:01

It like how you so. On. A

15:04

young girl younger sister I always so

15:06

had the impression you acquire intense demo

15:08

were like you would so stay up

15:10

all my finish the truck and get

15:12

all the parts together and that's or

15:15

thing so is I changed for you

15:17

then to to going to the studio

15:19

and just let it flow see what

15:21

happens Definitely. Like. Album might

15:23

sound and color as see lights. Ninety

15:26

eight percent of their album I had demoed

15:28

already. And then there were some stuff that

15:30

we just had to figure out. And.

15:32

Then when I did the album Jamie's.

15:35

Most. Of those them out, not all of it. But

15:37

most. Of it. And. When I came here

15:39

it seems like I'm dislike less and less prepared

15:41

as time goes on. A good thing. Muslim

15:44

that way. I

16:21

wondered how having to to versus how

16:23

voice how much does that impact on

16:25

your actual some Great because I I

16:28

might need it was fairly open up.

16:30

a lot of possibilities for maladies and

16:32

and stuff as well as dynamics. Well.

16:34

Course the voices instruments you know, And.

16:37

I just think of it as. Some.

16:41

What I'm hearing. Is right for

16:43

Qatar A Not always as as myself this

16:45

question is like what is it for the

16:47

I'm saying because you could just over time

16:49

as it could come up with parts because

16:51

that's supposed to do. Or but

16:53

not everything's meant for guitar and sometimes

16:56

it's a vocal element and it's Hannah.

16:58

All depends on the emotion. Sometimes the

17:00

voice is going to deliver an emotion

17:02

that an actual stringed instrument or would

17:05

when, or whatever punishment could deliver. You

17:07

know, Because. It's such a mood to

17:09

it so it's like I'm really grateful to have

17:11

the ability to have a lot of rains and

17:13

to use that like and summit to do that

17:15

even just as a pad it doesn't have to

17:17

say anything to the have to be. Funny thing

17:19

is is nice to be there to ten of

17:22

deliver like a feeling yeah I think it's signs.

17:24

A good example saw seems that you create a

17:26

whole world with just the vocals on my mom

17:28

so er som was one of the songs a

17:30

common only have like thirty seconds so that I

17:32

think. As. You know where I was gonna go

17:34

there? Process: I really like this is something to this. And.

17:36

So we start trying to figure out how

17:39

to suss it out. And. Then we

17:41

get stuck. Out on a maybe was

17:43

like the two minutes already set them up with his stats. I

17:45

don't know what to do from here. Are we have

17:47

was a drum parts. And that's held

17:50

signed to mute everything but the drums

17:52

and I started creating this harmony basis

17:54

of the site. Poetry had this written

17:56

outside. And. I came back in

17:58

and as a set of building. Never heard of my

18:00

head. Maybe. It's like the seven part

18:03

layered harmony. Maybe five? As are

18:05

building net. And. Then I was a

18:07

glut and piano would go super hard

18:09

here and so. Then. I just

18:12

made a panel part of my laptop so

18:14

it's I simply keys a little bit but

18:16

not sufficient enough to play that actual parts

18:18

I went and maybe. And. A created

18:20

were heard. And. Maybe on the keyboard

18:22

and we had a player piano at the

18:24

studio. So. Isn't that made it to

18:26

the player piano? Player: Piano did the

18:29

heavy lifting. And then hearing it back on

18:31

the course of realistic than us. We must

18:33

settle the debt and completed the song. And.

18:35

That's really hard. Arsonist out. Yeah, I'll

18:37

have the vocals on them. Red Flags

18:39

as well as a society configure many

18:42

things You can shift gears so dramatically

18:44

with his one song to it must

18:46

be a Tremendous Look Syria, Isis, Immediate

18:49

Live. I'll

18:51

be singing, but inside my head I'm like

18:54

okay, whereabouts good as a course. To.

18:56

Set the biggest gulp of wherever and then

18:58

send it or way up the space. That

19:02

song absolute from demo to finish

19:04

products. says. A lot as well. Completely

19:07

new vocal melodies, Courses.

19:10

Written on the fly. And. then during the

19:12

course of his like will be funded center have let the

19:14

in spots. No quarrel group and want

19:16

to do something kind of reminiscent of like

19:18

the forties. Something. Completely out of place

19:20

and I think that ended up in court as if

19:23

it ended up creating a mammoth and maybe nobody would

19:25

have been in before it. Also

19:57

use guitar on the wrestled as

19:59

well. We see you got a

20:01

distinctive voice on the guitar thought he feels like

20:03

you use it more as a kind of the

20:05

text you rather than it being you know. Affected

20:08

instruments in that wife Is that the way

20:10

you think of it? Yeah, as

20:12

a scenario outside. The. Taught us

20:14

and always had to be like and now. It's time for

20:16

the carcillo rip of the parcel of that

20:18

happens at a couple times. On

20:20

album but samir this felt like appropriate. Like

20:23

this needs to go here for this reason

20:25

sometimes I even have guitar and some songs.

20:27

Is. My primary instrument. But I

20:30

wouldn't say I might a guitar player

20:32

as much as I might. The guitar

20:34

arranger says a lot of these guitars.

20:36

it's here in this album or arrangements

20:38

and you can hear them. Iran's kind

20:40

of like the with Iran's i'm at

20:42

the string quartet or something everything has

20:44

it's part for it's certain reason and

20:47

it creates is kind of like interesting

20:49

rhythm. So. There's so much rhythm

20:51

swirling around you know? cause I think

20:53

when you related supply you you mainly

20:55

sort of picked out songs he says

20:57

land songs by yes. So to

21:00

think he just develop this innate understanding of

21:02

how to construct a tasteful gets off asked.

21:04

That's funny, I never thought about it. I

21:07

think a lot of it has to do

21:09

with didn't and where you sit and. Wait,

21:12

I'm a musician so I've played a lot

21:14

of different people from the time as like

21:16

eleven years old. And it's always like

21:18

okay, how do I sit and with this person Harris

21:20

said i'm with this group, How I met this where

21:22

where can I go. There's. Already three other

21:24

guitar players here. What can I do? The add

21:26

to this. Said. Throwing yourself into situations

21:29

you don't know what's gonna happen, to have

21:31

no expectations and your little frightened by isn't

21:33

getting. We sit and and I think that

21:35

you can still hear that. And.

21:37

Mom is it today. The I sounds

21:39

to me that you sent me playing

21:41

for the songs rather than making your

21:43

songs a vehicle for your guitar player.

21:45

Absolutely. Yep. Government as they that owning a

21:48

want to play the tides some even look at it. I

21:50

love creating music. I

21:53

don't have the title or not for it, I

21:55

don't have you Tommy Composer? Not really sure, but

21:57

putting the whole thing together is really my. Everything.

22:00

It's not singing, not playing guitar

22:02

making it all comes. Life is

22:05

my passion. And. So sometimes

22:07

I'm a guitar player. Sometimes.

22:10

I'm a drummer, sometimes I'm a singer you

22:12

know for you so much. He guitar player

22:14

on to be still hello thought could see

22:16

since a soda he's see that's great. You

22:19

said that because I was a me. ah

22:21

that ah that is Brad Alan Williams who

22:23

played on two songs. On. Album

22:25

he plays on Red Flags Is that

22:27

super sick like Fleetwood Mac sounding? Risk.

22:31

I caught the Christmas season

22:33

and he also played to

22:35

be still. And we sat

22:37

down and kind of created this chord structure together.

22:39

and he plays so beautifully like Zoc. I don't

22:42

want to replay this at all. It's. So.

22:44

Gorgeous and like in the studio he wrote that

22:46

song. That was when the songs that came out

22:48

of thin air. And. At all had

22:50

to do with him to sitting down and

22:52

playing. This kind of stepped down like Roy

22:55

Airs courts and was like that that's for

22:57

that. The silver this yeah other sources to

22:59

me a kind of them was like a

23:01

mini represent five. the song Zola kind of

23:04

seductive atmosphere. is Ray in there In you

23:06

know it created this environment. doesn't really meditative

23:08

to me. And. Said was at what

23:10

something I would meditate on like with something

23:12

utterly really care about and a lot of

23:14

it had to be with site been planted

23:16

somewhere and included somewhere at this is like

23:18

what a lot of people want to just

23:20

went somewhere safe and somewhere loving and somewhere

23:22

to be still somewhere to stay in. I

23:25

was at Be on the move and said

23:27

very much of my last have been on

23:29

the move. Sick. A dream of

23:31

men to be planted in in

23:33

a. Daze.

24:04

What you can see from behind me

24:06

ammonia Qatar medals or Prince Mad if

24:08

we both have sex and we certainly

24:10

got some prince my some some of

24:12

the songs pace since we thought said

24:14

in an hour to of dave as

24:16

yeah that does he still loom large

24:18

for you can you write in. So.

24:22

I don't have a formal musical

24:24

education. Everything I know is is

24:26

I'm listening. And. Prince.

24:28

Is always someone. That at at

24:31

intended to be amazed by. Because.

24:33

A lot of times i his career he with. The.

24:37

More complicated choice.

24:39

To. Put a went straight but he would. Like.

24:42

Forty. Five degrees display in a ninety degree

24:44

angle that we didn't see that come

24:46

in like the productions is cool and

24:48

the choices was so cool and so

24:50

that's always in the back of my

24:52

mind when doing something A my damn.

24:54

This is a straightforward approach, but like.

24:56

Maybe. There's some part of me that's learned

24:58

over time. I. Don't make

25:00

the straightforward approach and people who

25:02

have inspired me a Prince and

25:04

David Bowie. And. York's their

25:07

act on it for icons because

25:09

that is the things their way.

25:11

And. He's a great teacher, as best as

25:13

someone who listens a deeply the up on

25:15

you've got to perform with the man himself

25:18

on the news. That's. Right I got

25:20

to meet him that speak with him that a play

25:22

with them. That's awesome on a farm.

25:24

Is all very surreal experience.

25:27

And actually he's a very funny guy. He's

25:29

a funny man who cracking up there is

25:31

one of those things are still feels like

25:33

a dream like. I still can't believe it

25:35

was real. Him hopping up on stage

25:37

that maybe only lasted like three minutes. But.

25:39

It's something I'll never forget and

25:41

I'll never set up about and

25:44

know suggests that isn't credible. Said

25:46

he jumped up on stage. Is

25:49

a simmer nowhere. Stages of good. five and

25:51

a half feet tall at that. He just

25:53

jumps up there and now is there. and

25:55

a stuff on his guitar need to start

25:57

ripping into this amazing solo. And

25:59

they. Were. Like kind of double

26:02

soloing for this like a second withstand

26:04

the bridge section weeks. Then the outflow.

26:06

Will make it work. Grim

26:08

rehearse, And. Then when we

26:10

complete the song the crowds going crazy.

26:12

Another super excited to see principles and

26:14

it pisses me on the seat. And

26:16

then he just jumps and when he

26:18

jumps it disappears. almost like a said

26:20

sister and I said this about France

26:22

before Japanese true I saw Mon as.

26:25

Vanished the i still think about the

26:27

to liquidity so. Lots

26:31

of people have those stories of the know

26:34

of him. Just pop it open, disappears again

26:36

to be folly. I got a great story

26:38

about just playing ping pong and vanished into

26:40

thin air. A does that. He vanishes into

26:43

thin air and illicit assault my own as.

26:46

The asked. To

27:11

do feel a little, those things about

27:13

you and your family do feel your

27:15

catalog has similar eclecticism. You know you've

27:17

got that experimental sides got the time

27:20

to the funkiest off you've got a

27:22

very direct rock and roll size. And

27:24

then ill Bermuda Triangle was different. again

27:27

more of a country thing. He feels

27:29

like not an Israeli. off limits few

27:31

musically. Know and I don't know I

27:33

said be. Music. Is I'm.

27:36

Endlessly is inspiring. Because.

27:39

For every one person, they might listen

27:41

to. Let's. Say a low end.

27:44

a hundred different artists. And.

27:46

Maybe it's a lot of different stuff, such

27:48

one person. And that guess last

27:50

summer signings a billion people in world. There's.

27:52

Something for everyone so no matter which

27:55

expression as the somewhere out there who

27:57

gets it in a added that's incredible.

28:00

Because expression So personal. So

28:02

deeply personal. And also quite

28:04

a courageous of honorable thing to do.

28:07

So. I don't see whether should be

28:09

any limits to our expression to still are

28:11

different kinds of ways of time, so I

28:13

definitely would never want to put any limits

28:15

on it. And. In fact, when I

28:17

do start feeling a little box, then that's. Usually.

28:20

When I. Move. On. From.

28:23

I think prove it's use a good example. found

28:25

a new album is so when he the i'm

28:28

i'm not want. As

28:30

a little house moments. But

28:33

the thing about it is somehow it's

28:35

still sits. There. Even if it is

28:37

for and the for which is something I'm never done

28:39

before. The something deeply emotional

28:42

about that music. And. I

28:44

think a lot of it has to do with the fact that. Movements.

28:46

Or healing and I think that's why would dance

28:48

as human beings at at and that's the purpose

28:50

of it and general, I've done it for yawns,

28:53

And. It's that movement getting something

28:55

out. And has his sights.

28:57

What better ways then through this for

28:59

on the for stealing. And.

29:02

Once. I had the lyrics on it and once

29:04

I heard. It. All as a

29:06

yes. This is happy and sad

29:09

at the same tampered anapum. Yeah,

29:11

I mean I love the contrast in

29:13

that one between it, the power of

29:16

the music, that piece consistent survey and

29:18

and then the vulnerability and in the

29:20

lyrics, those of suppositions. A really interesting

29:22

nothing. Deaths. And I love

29:24

riding with just a position. As.

29:26

In the mix ins richer and more interesting. And

29:29

that's something I always have in mind.

29:31

I find that the songs that I

29:33

write their most interested and usually have

29:35

that element kind of become a pattern

29:37

of notice. I'm afraid to say that

29:39

you not keen on trying to make

29:41

everything peer sets or you leave for

29:43

some of role expression of an idea

29:45

restarts what seems to be the best

29:47

version of it you. I'm trying to

29:49

record everything necessarily Shore yeah just like

29:51

to them a point across. This.

29:54

Really all I'm trying to do this on his have been.

29:56

With. A song I prefer to. The

29:58

voice. Assist. More. A

30:01

lotta times it's almost childlike the way that as

30:03

saying. And. It's so out

30:05

of place sometimes. And. It's

30:08

not sung perfectly like it's not.

30:10

It's not a vocal performance who

30:12

would write home about it's. just

30:15

kidding that emotion across this is

30:17

a big ceiling said i still

30:19

small, haven't walk alone. Is.

30:41

On a know you to replace several

30:43

instruments book to have a main writing

30:45

through is still look at sorrow to

30:47

mix it up. Ah, doesn't mix it

30:49

up. It. Just depends on what I

30:51

hear like sometimes. As a writer you

30:54

hear like a piano part and they're like oh

30:56

that's so catchy that's been stuck in my head

30:58

for couple of as it's infested disco. Put that

31:00

down and it it sounded develops. Because. What's

31:02

your that Cn apart said hearing other sites

31:05

and goes for everything. Sometimes the drumbeat a

31:07

be so cool to play this and like

31:09

three Four in the switch over to look

31:11

as Six Eight and a swing moment. Some

31:13

has a sister baseline, sometimes just vocal melody

31:15

and I read a cigarette out from there.

31:18

There's ideas I have from years ago. They're

31:20

still good ideas, nothing haven't completed them because

31:22

I don't know what they need. So.

31:24

Does that kind of activity have the

31:26

most days for you? Or would you

31:28

need to wait for like six times

31:30

When you feel most inspired. It adds.

31:32

I let it come naturally. I think if

31:35

I sat down. Every day to write

31:37

something for me personally. That.

31:39

Would be a hindrance. I

31:41

think that would. Create. A

31:43

very sudden says said it lies

31:45

for me. Everybody's different. Some

31:48

people absolutely can do that every day.

31:51

But. for me i let it doesn't

31:53

come naturally like the tides this tides of

31:55

creativity and then there's times when it's like

31:57

i'm completely washed out i just wanna live

32:00

life, you know? And do you have a

32:02

preferred place to write like a studio

32:04

space at home or do you prefer to do

32:06

it while you're on the move or? Kitchen table.

32:09

I prefer to write at my kitchen table. The

32:12

simpler the setup, the better. And I'll

32:14

start there usually and then I'll go into,

32:16

I have a larger studio. I'll go

32:18

into that studio and I'll start fleshing it

32:20

out in there. Yeah, we've had a few

32:22

people of the year say kitchen table, haven't

32:25

we, Brian? Yeah, Roseanne Cash, I remember mentioning

32:27

the kitchen table. Yeah. You know,

32:29

I got some, I don't know where this advice came from,

32:32

but it's true. Wherever you spend the most

32:34

time, like living is where you should create

32:36

and I couldn't agree more. That

32:38

works for me. We know you've been

32:40

inspired by movies and things like that in

32:42

your writing. Are there any other art

32:45

forms that you turn to as a source

32:47

of inspiration? You know, I actually think

32:49

that public speaking is an art form. I'm

32:52

amazed by it. I love to

32:54

hear people's voices when they speak,

32:57

especially when they're telling their stories. That's

33:00

a huge, inspiring to me. People's

33:02

stories in general are inspiring, especially

33:05

the ones like, you know, I guess you

33:07

could say it's motivational speaking, I suppose, but

33:09

it's more just like people coming through something,

33:11

getting over something. I think it's

33:13

just so inspiring because we can all like

33:15

draw correlations to our life where we

33:18

need help getting through something or, you know, just

33:20

these moments, just really human moments. And

33:23

I feel like maybe I'm connecting to those people

33:25

and that makes me want to write. Yeah. And

33:28

do you tend to look more favorably maybe on

33:30

the songs that arrived quickly? You know, something like

33:32

Stay High, I think that was a song that

33:34

came pretty fast. Or

33:37

do you get just as much satisfaction from, you

33:39

know, taking the time to really sort of work

33:41

on and craft the song? You

33:43

know, I'm always amazed when

33:45

songs come quickly. It feels like

33:47

one big breath and then the song's done. And

33:50

I always find it amazing. But

33:52

I do feel really proud on songs I didn't

33:54

give up on because there's songs that challenge me

33:56

and I don't know, previously I would

33:58

just say, ah, too hard. throw it in

34:00

the trash, but it's a good idea.

34:02

It just needs more work, just needs more

34:05

patience, needs more time, and I'm actually really

34:07

proud of those that get finished, yeah. Is

34:09

that why you like fly fishing? Because it

34:11

involves a lot of patience. No,

34:14

the patience part is not what I like. What

34:17

I like is being outside, and I

34:19

like my phone not working. I like

34:21

becoming human again. And when I'm

34:23

out there fly fishing, I feel like it could

34:25

be any deer on the earth. You

34:28

know what I'm saying? And I get to connect

34:30

to that again, and maybe I catch a fish.

34:32

Good metaphor for songwriting though, isn't it? You gotta

34:34

show up, you gotta wait, you

34:36

gotta be patient, you might

34:39

not get a bite. Yeah,

34:41

that's true. It is kinda like that,

34:43

and you're just hoping to receive

34:45

a fish. You know, I think

34:47

I heard David Lynch talking about ideas.

34:50

Was it him? Ideas are like fish. Or

34:52

maybe it was Anthony Keidish from Hot Chili Peppers. It's

34:55

easy to get them confused. But

34:59

the whole idea is ideas are fish and

35:01

just waiting for one to bite. Or

35:03

maybe we're the fish. I

35:07

don't have a feeling like

35:11

to let it go. I'm

35:20

watching no feeling more and

35:22

you don't wanna go home. I

35:25

don't know where it is, it's a compliment.

35:30

I can't hold the thing and

35:33

I have it in you. Do

35:40

you ever find that when you're doing that,

35:42

do ideas maybe start to creep in? You

35:44

know, when you're engaged in an activity like

35:46

that and your conscious brain is occupied, you

35:48

find maybe melodic ideas might drift into your

35:50

brain. Not fishing, because I

35:52

like to remain pretty quiet when

35:54

I'm fishing. But driving,

35:56

yes. I'd say

35:58

driving is when I get most of my ideas. is because

36:01

like you said, I'm kinetically doing something

36:03

else. It's almost like kinetic meditation and

36:06

this other part of your brain is programmed to

36:08

drive. Make sure you're going to speed on it.

36:10

Anybody in that lane. It's like your

36:12

brain separates into these two parts. Then

36:14

this thinking part over here is free

36:16

now because you don't have all the

36:18

space to judge yourself because you're literally judging

36:20

the roadway. I

36:22

think a lot of freedom comes from that.

36:25

Where did the words come? Did you find

36:27

yourself coming up with lyrics in a driving

36:29

context or would that be something you work

36:31

on later? Sometimes

36:33

I've noticed recently because I feel like

36:35

everybody's creative approach can change over time

36:38

as you evolve. I

36:40

feel like I may be able to skip some

36:42

kind of idea, maybe even musically. I'll just go

36:44

ahead and do the music. I kind of hate

36:47

when this happens because then if you

36:49

go ahead and do all of the music for your

36:51

track and now it's time for vocals, sometimes

36:54

you can put yourself in a position of what

36:56

I like to call the puzzle. I

36:58

hate sitting down and doing the puzzle

37:01

because you've set the

37:04

setting but what the hell are you talking about? Now

37:06

you're like, okay, what does this feel like? What

37:09

does this mean to me? You start getting this

37:11

idea and now you have to start talking

37:13

about it. You can't talk

37:15

about it long-windedly. You have

37:18

to be succinct. You can't

37:20

use big words. You've got to keep it

37:22

accessible. There begins the puzzle.

37:24

Then you get to the chorus, what's the hook? How am

37:26

I going to hook this? But how do I believe it?

37:29

I can't just do something for the sake of doing it. Yeah,

37:32

that tortures me. I'll tell you

37:34

the single, what now, was the song that became

37:36

the puzzle for me. When you're

37:38

doing the puzzle, can you turn to pre-existing

37:40

lyrical things that you might have like titles,

37:43

words, and a notebook and try and marry

37:45

them up with the music or are you

37:47

sort of starting fresh? I look

37:49

everywhere. I look under rocks. I

37:52

look to the stars. I would cut all

37:54

my hair off if it gave me the

37:56

song. I would do anything. It's like torture

37:58

because you know it's almost there. You find

38:00

yourself consciously digging back through your own life

38:02

to find things, because I know Goathead for

38:04

example is something that came from a real

38:07

life experience, would you do that kind of

38:09

work? Sure, a lot

38:11

of the times luckily these things show

38:14

up at the same time. The music, the idea for the

38:16

song, the lyrics, kind of like a rumbling under the surface

38:18

and you kind of unearth it, you know what I mean?

38:21

And only sometimes has it been like I have

38:23

to really figure out what I was talking about

38:25

when I started writing this music. But

38:27

on that occasion when it came to Goathead, I had

38:30

already kind of written some poetry that was about

38:33

the South and relating

38:35

colours to the South and it

38:38

kind of developed into this story

38:40

of colour. And being that

38:43

my mum is white, my father is black, it

38:45

became about that. So that all

38:47

kind of made sense and fell into

38:49

each other. And what about another song

38:51

from Jamie, 13th Century Metal? You're

38:54

almost sermonising on that song. So that was one

38:56

of those occasions where I did look back into

38:58

my notes and my phone. That

39:01

whole song just came about like miraculously. We

39:03

were in the studio, everything was still

39:05

set up, Nate Smith was still in his drum room

39:08

and Robert, Robert Glasper

39:11

started playing this like funny keyboard. He started messing

39:13

around playing this one and that one at the

39:15

same time and it turned into

39:18

this like Gregorian sounding, I don't

39:20

know what you would call it, but it turned into

39:23

something that reminded me of olden

39:25

times. And then Nate started

39:27

playing and it became something entirely different. I was like, oh

39:29

my God, this has a groove to it now, I've never

39:31

heard anything quite like this exactly. And so

39:33

we let them do their jam, their jam was like,

39:35

I don't know, 20 minutes just to improvise jam. It

39:38

was up to me and Sean to then edit that

39:40

jam. And now we have this

39:42

piece of music that has so much melody

39:44

on it, I can't possibly sing. So I knew

39:46

it had to be something that was spoken. So

39:49

I started going through my notes and I

39:51

found this thing that I've written, oh God,

39:54

probably around the time our last president

39:56

was elected, not this current one,

39:58

but the one before. And

40:00

it was a lot about, you know,

40:02

I was scared because there's like a

40:05

lot of rhetoric that went along with

40:07

that person that was violent. And

40:11

I wanted to know who I was going to be

40:14

during these times because I was afraid.

40:16

And so I kind of wrote myself this mantra

40:18

that was really just trying to encourage myself,

40:21

like, this is who you are during

40:24

this time. Don't forget it. And

40:26

so then I laid that on top of this and

40:28

it became this urgent call to be

40:30

powerful. Well,

40:34

Britney, the new album's an absolute beast. We

40:36

love it. Thanks for having me on. Great

40:38

questions. Great to meet you, Brian. Great to

40:40

meet you, Simon. Same to you, Britney. Take

40:42

care. All right. See you now. Bye. Get

40:55

it. Let's

40:59

move the baby together. To

41:03

be kind. Get it. Do

41:06

it. Get

41:09

it. Don't

41:11

try. Get it.

41:16

And through. Get it. Take

41:21

care. That was

41:23

Britney Howard talking to us about her new

41:25

album, What Now? She's such an

41:27

exciting artist, isn't she? She really is, yeah.

41:29

And as you said to her, that record

41:31

is immersive, isn't it? Yeah. And

41:33

I guess an album ideally should be an

41:36

immersive experience that takes you on a

41:38

journey, you know, not just necessarily a

41:40

collection of songs. Yeah. I

41:42

think she's achieved that with this for sure. Sounds

41:45

like she's good at collaborating too and making

41:47

the whole process feel like it's fun. Yeah.

41:50

The way she works with Sean Everett sounds

41:52

really cool. You know, the way they can

41:54

mention colors and textures and they understand what

41:56

the other one means. Yeah. Maybe

41:58

they share a kind of synasthe. easier or

42:00

something. It sounds like it yeah and

42:02

you know the rhythmic underpinnings of the

42:04

album are really diverse as well. Yeah

42:07

I love that she avoids standard feels

42:09

as we said it's probably because of

42:11

her background as a drummer but she

42:13

makes the song work with these very

42:15

unpredictable grooves I think. Yeah but that

42:17

said you know she still wants everything

42:19

in its right spots when necessary like

42:21

on the title track which has that

42:23

robotic kind of precision but a really

42:26

cool mood as well. Yeah absolutely love

42:28

that one that's probably my favorite off

42:30

that record. Yeah yeah and then

42:32

you combine their guitar playing with

42:34

those gear shifting vocals over the

42:36

top and you've got just a

42:38

very special musical fingerprint. She's a

42:40

powerhouse isn't she on multiple fronts

42:43

yeah and I think she shared a lot with us there about

42:45

her songwriting I really enjoyed it. Me too

42:47

and always nice to add another Prince story

42:49

to the pile. Yeah despite

42:52

the fact that her story has that kind

42:54

of mystical quality about what it was like

42:56

to perform with Prince you know he's the

42:59

shapeshifter who disappears into the darkness. She

43:02

also said she just got to talk to him on the

43:04

phone and then he was funny which is really

43:07

nice. Yeah well that's something that comes through

43:09

in a lot of accounts of people who

43:11

knew him that he had a very keen

43:13

sense of humor you know he had that

43:15

quite serious demeanor but you know he

43:17

liked the joke. Yeah for sure.

43:20

So thanks to Britney for the chat

43:22

what now is available everywhere so go

43:24

fetch a coffee. We'll be back soon

43:26

with more creative conversations. Bye for now.

43:28

Take care.