0:00

It's Sophia Franklin. You're listening to

0:02

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is ass, legs, cellulite good?

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I mean, we can go. What

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3:58

big time. No. Big,

4:01

big, big. Okay, here we go.

4:04

James Charles, I

4:06

am so excited to be sitting next

4:09

to you the fact that you are

4:11

letting us record in your home. Welcome,

4:13

thank you for coming. Thank you. I

4:16

was imagining your home and I was

4:18

thinking about your fridge. Ooh,

4:20

what did you, tell me. Well,

4:22

I didn't really, I mean, it

4:24

is exactly what I thought it

4:26

would be. I wasn't expecting a

4:28

wine cellar with just Coke.

4:32

Like glass Coke. Every health in LA is so cookie

4:34

cutter and they all come with these wine cellars. And

4:37

I understand if you're like a wine drinker, that would

4:39

be a gorgeous feature to have. But I think it's

4:41

disgusting. It's so nasty. And it's time that we start

4:43

having that conversation. I think that is

4:46

so intelligent. How

4:48

embarrassing though, going to Italy,

4:51

that's where it really becomes an issue. Why?

4:54

Because you're in Italy, everyone is getting

4:56

wine. They're known for their wine. And

4:59

then I'm over here like, Margarita,

5:02

just kind of, I would never. I'm a Coke

5:04

girl through and through. I

5:09

thought I'd say, re-say that because that sounded kind

5:11

of crazy. Nothing has

5:13

like a cold cup of Coke, especially the Mexican

5:15

Cokes in the glass bottle. The

5:18

glass bottle makes it every time.

5:20

Yes, your glam room

5:23

and where you do the makeup is really

5:26

what I'm so excited to see. Can't wait

5:28

to show you. I'm gonna cry. I cry,

5:30

cry, cry. So there's

5:32

a lot to discuss today. My

5:35

podcast is lighthearted, fun.

5:38

It's in the comedy section. I

5:41

think there's some responsibility and

5:43

I need to be responsible as

5:45

do you. Yeah, of course. So

5:48

I think we should just jump into

5:50

the hardship. Okay. And

5:52

then we move along. Sure,

5:54

that's fine with me. It is? Yeah, of

5:56

course. Okay. So where

5:58

are you now? with

6:01

the situation. I'm great. I'm

6:03

really good. Everything that the drama that happened

6:05

was about three and a half almost

6:07

four years ago now. It'll be four years in April and

6:10

I'm at a really good mental place. It

6:12

took me a long time to heal and

6:14

get over and get through everything but

6:16

it's something that I will never forget

6:18

about and have

6:21

had to live with but it's been such a blessing in

6:25

disguise truly to teach me so many valuable

6:27

life lessons about love, about

6:29

business, about just my own

6:31

personal safety and protection and it was you

6:33

know a shitty

6:35

thing to go through but I'm really proud of

6:37

you know the mental progress that I've made and

6:39

I do like

6:41

to believe that everything happens for a reason because I think that

6:44

you could drive yourself crazy by believing

6:46

otherwise. Yeah. So I'm good. I'm

6:49

good. That's good. Thank you for asking. I

6:51

appreciate that actually. Of course. I

6:54

do want to bring up

6:56

a quote from Cosmo. Yeah go

6:58

ahead. And it said when I

7:01

polled friends and colleagues about Charles,

7:03

so this is from the writer,

7:05

in the run-up

7:07

to this day the general consensus

7:09

was that he had done something

7:12

bad but no one was clear

7:14

on exactly what. Yeah. I

7:17

think that's a very very profound

7:20

and important quote

7:22

from the article but what do

7:24

you think they meant by that? I

7:26

think that I grew up

7:29

in a time on YouTube where we are

7:31

used to sharing every single aspects of our

7:33

lives and you know ever

7:35

since day one I have made

7:37

a lot of mistakes growing up. I've

7:39

had a lot of great moments, a lot of bad

7:41

moments, a lot of embarrassing moments and that's all documented

7:43

online and you know as

7:46

YouTubers we didn't have publicists,

7:48

we didn't have PR teams. When we did

7:50

something bad we Were taught that the

7:52

appropriate response is to get on camera and have an

7:54

open and honest conversation with the people that gave us

7:56

the platforms in the first place. Although.

8:00

I'm might fall my an. Apology.

8:02

Things in the past have become memes are

8:04

videos that people have laughed out what I

8:06

can understand why I will say anything but

8:09

I'd ever fucked up I've gotten online and

8:11

I've always been honest. I don't send cease

8:13

and desist letters or stay silent or threatened

8:15

legal action which is what nowadays in all

8:17

pr team's top people veil and I think

8:20

that when I realized that I it sucked

8:22

up like I had mentioned I wanted to

8:24

get online and have a conversation is and

8:26

apologize for what I did do which is

8:28

that when I was. Twenty. One,

8:30

I had conversations with two guys that told

8:33

me they were eighteen and after about an

8:35

hour long combo I realized that they were

8:37

lying and I block them and that was

8:39

at his demise in the Cosmopolitan article about

8:41

you mentioned Literally Admitted now years later that

8:43

he did Lion that he. Was. He

8:45

never did in the first place. Yes, by I

8:47

think that. When.got post

8:50

said. Somebody. Posted that he

8:52

will.quickly get turned into a viral tweet

8:54

at a table higher level and last

8:56

out from here They are on Instagram

8:58

story and ah you know on social

9:00

media. We all know that the most

9:02

interesting of those exaggerated of the craziest

9:04

contact as what's going to go viral

9:06

So I apologize for something that I did

9:08

the when I recognize was wrong which

9:10

was not checking ideas and not to

9:12

not taking proper precautions with the people

9:14

that I was having conversations rats and

9:16

I will forever and my time be

9:18

embarrassed by the and own not by

9:20

a just. Got so twisted into all

9:22

sorts of crazy words and accusations and

9:25

stories that literally just did it not

9:27

happen. Man, I think that. Because.

9:29

I posted an apology. It turned into oh,

9:31

Dame Charles, apologize for what was that in

9:33

this tweet Or Dame Halls apologize for what

9:35

was that in this video But. That's

9:38

not. What it was. Will it's crazy

9:40

it the whole apology video

9:42

thing. I've done a few

9:44

bombs they say you and

9:47

me as. Which. it

9:49

is that so backwards re young

9:51

the gates said be a bad

9:53

thing but people at the video

9:55

will never be that and ask

9:57

for it sat in as weren't

10:00

remorseful enough. They didn't say that, you

10:02

know what I mean? I think it's

10:04

such like a tricky

10:07

topic. Like I think that when you do fuck up,

10:09

like you need to show remorse and that

10:12

you're sorry and own what you did. Yeah.

10:14

But I think that like the only way

10:16

to truthfully do that is over time through

10:18

action. That's it. Like I think that you

10:20

need to show an apology rather than say

10:22

an apology. Actions speak louder

10:24

than words. Every time. Every

10:27

single time. So I think like it's just a tricky

10:29

road to go down because there's never anything that you

10:31

can truly say to fix that. I think you

10:34

have to prove that you're sorry and realize what you

10:37

did was wrong over time. And I've

10:39

been able to do that over the last couple of years.

10:43

Yeah. So I for

10:45

real last question, because it has more to do with

10:47

me. I didn't

10:50

realize how

10:57

crazy that's on until after it came out of my mouth.

10:59

But I kind of love it is

11:01

the idea of

11:04

anchoring bias. Have you ever

11:06

heard of that? I

11:09

haven't. So basically anchoring

11:11

bias, there's a

11:13

million forms of biases, right?

11:16

Confirmation bias. And I learned

11:18

about this one anchoring bias,

11:21

which basically means people

11:25

tend to hold on to

11:27

and believe the first

11:30

piece of information they hear about

11:33

something. And it's really

11:35

hard for them to let it go. And I think

11:37

for me,

11:41

that was very difficult, I'm

11:43

sure for you. Not

11:46

that we didn't fuck up. I'm

11:48

just saying moving

11:50

forward, do you

11:53

feel like this is something that will

11:55

always be a part of your story

11:57

and you and Unfortunately,

12:00

The ideal and. Dot.

12:02

Socks for the under that a it's my

12:05

fault So it is what it as. Like

12:07

I said I, I've moved past sense. I

12:09

think that you know, whenever drama videos first

12:11

started being made about me and twenty nineteen,

12:13

my dating life became extremely public and it

12:16

just. Once. Again unfortunately the

12:18

humor trying to post conversations.

12:21

That people have with me whether they were

12:23

on Dmz dating apps in real life, an

12:25

Srd getting a lot of engagement so that's

12:27

always going to be something to I will

12:29

now need to look out for when having

12:31

any sort of conversation at romantic or nice

12:33

so. I. Think like were.

12:36

Is suspending as like if you are Russia owner and

12:38

you said of Gordon Ramsay came out and said my

12:40

food was set and spit on it. You would probably

12:42

believe that the deal that's the character that he has

12:44

a mind of. These are guys you know you. Were

12:48

in the. Us Or and

12:50

overheard Billie Eyeless were singing to herself

12:52

and she started Incredible! You believe that

12:54

because he's an incredible singer? Yes, unfortunately

12:56

with me. My. Dating life became

12:58

public and. Stories. Were

13:00

post said it's and you know it

13:02

becomes a thing worn out. Anybody makes

13:05

anything with any sort of claim. Like

13:07

you said, it's that as the anchoring bias or

13:09

people say, oh, I've heard this before, so it

13:12

it's material. Is the first thing

13:14

I heard and is nothing different?

13:16

Yeah, I just think everyone listening

13:18

all nicely. It's like it's something

13:20

to be aware as I mean

13:22

it regardless of any sort of

13:24

like scandal. Whether. It's you

13:26

know, politics, celebrity news, a new

13:28

divorce, a new babies mama, drama,

13:30

whatever it is in like information

13:33

is so easily accessible also just

13:35

as easily misconstrued and at everything

13:37

goes viral every couple seconds on

13:39

all different platforms with whatever information

13:41

can be most entertaining to the

13:43

viewers. sewed l I just think

13:45

it's a vital skill to be

13:47

able to. Look for it.

13:50

You know, or a real source or otter

13:52

information regarding what of our topic is being

13:54

discussed or. read something from it actual unbiased

13:56

point of view and not like get on

13:58

the other This is like giving me a

14:00

little bit of a thrill to read. Yeah.

14:03

Should we move on? I would love to move

14:05

on. Yeah. I'm glad we talked.

14:08

Like I said, I'm an open book. I have no

14:10

problem talking about anything, but it's been years and I've

14:12

talked about this so many times. Honestly, I don't think

14:14

anybody gives a fuck anymore. Not that they don't. Oh

14:16

my God, that's bad wording too. Wait, why? I

14:19

mean, not that they don't care about what happened. I think that

14:21

people don't want to hear me talk about it. No,

14:23

this thing is, I think they do. Like

14:26

people do anything that was

14:28

big like that and made

14:30

a splash. They do want

14:32

to keep hearing it. I

14:34

think it'll get views, but I think that

14:36

at the end of the day, I will

14:38

always take accountability for what I did do,

14:40

but I refuse to admit to what I

14:42

didn't. So I just hope that through time,

14:44

once again, I'm able to continue showing the

14:46

person that I am and just

14:49

moving forward and growing. Yes. So

14:52

let's talk about makeup. Painted

14:54

by James Charles. I

14:57

saw the palette stunning.

14:59

Thank you. I want

15:02

you to use it on me. I was

15:04

telling James, I was gonna accidentally, and I'm

15:06

doing quotation marks, show up to the house

15:08

about any makeup on and be like, oh

15:11

my God, like so much is going on.

15:13

There was an earthquake, that's not a

15:15

lie. There actually was. There was an earthquake today. And

15:17

it really scared me. And

15:21

be like, I am running late. Like could

15:23

you just help me really fast? Just

15:25

so you would have to do my makeup. Yeah. That's

15:29

happened a lot of times before. People actually do

15:31

that. Yeah. You're lying.

15:33

No, people, I mean, yeah, I get asked

15:35

quite frequently to do. But like,

15:37

will they pretend like, oh my God. Like at

15:39

some events like that, yeah, for sure. I

15:42

heard like a girl said, it'll come over. I'm like, oh

15:44

my God, I got this dinner to go to, but like,

15:46

oh, it just looks so ugly. And I'm like, sorry, damn.

15:50

You're like, maybe put a little makeup on.

15:53

They're like, oh, could you just do it? I'm

15:55

like, so stupid. Like, oh my

15:57

God. Okay. I love

15:59

helping my girls out. Do you? I do. Okay.

16:03

I do. Okay. Makeup

16:05

is like, it's so like, I'm, it is my job. So of course,

16:07

thank you. Oh my God. I

16:09

wouldn't disagree, but

16:11

thank you. Appreciate it on the list. I

16:14

just think like, when it becomes your job, everything

16:16

is never as, you know, fun as it once

16:18

is. But at the end of the day, the

16:21

reason why I fell in love with Makeup in the first phase is making

16:23

people feel beautiful and confident. And

16:26

if I can do that with, you know, 15 minutes in

16:28

the glam chair, it's a sacrifice worth

16:30

making every single time. 15 minutes. Well,

16:34

I know, I know, I know you can

16:36

take as long as you want, but

16:38

what would you say is like

16:40

your everyday, get ready with me

16:43

routine time? My everyday, get ready with

16:45

me time is nothing. Like, this is what I look like on a

16:47

daily basis. Well, you look funny and you don't have

16:49

makeup on and I wish you would have told me so

16:51

then I would have done my makeup. Like

16:53

I wasn't wearing any. And you could both be

16:55

like, oh my God, we're not wearing like bare

16:58

face interview. But I think it's really, really,

17:00

really simple glam. It'll take me like 15 minutes

17:02

because I'll do like brows, a

17:04

little bit of brow gel just to make them look nice. A

17:06

little freckle. I'll curl my lashes out a little bit of mascara

17:09

and like maybe a lip balm.

17:11

If you can only choose one makeup product. Such

17:14

a boring question. Is it you always get

17:16

that? I knew to

17:19

make guys. Every

17:21

interview ever is like if you could bring one product to

17:23

a dessert island. If I'm going

17:25

to a fucking dessert island, I bring a

17:28

flare. I bring a raft. I bring an

17:30

oar. Something like a

17:32

flint and steel. I'm bringing a

17:34

fucking eyebrow pencil. Let's get real. No.

17:37

Fucking crazy. Okay,

17:39

fuck that question. Painted by James Charles.

17:42

Tell me about it. It's funny to be rude. No.

17:45

No. I'm asking because

17:47

I'm being selfish right now. I love survivor.

17:50

It's one of my favorite TV shows ever. So like

17:53

I couldn't give up lots of fuck about. I love

17:55

makeup but like if I'm going to a dessert island,

17:57

I'm taking that shit serious. I'm getting off. being

18:00

stranded and you're getting a raft maybe

18:03

okay I would

18:05

just go to the island first to decide what I

18:07

need I would get a person just fuck

18:10

is a person gonna do for my mental

18:12

health cuz I wouldn't want

18:14

to be alone with the raft and

18:16

like ho the fucking what do you think the raft is

18:18

to do I know it's to get

18:20

out there but I just feel like

18:22

a person would help keep me sane

18:24

no I'm fine I need

18:27

my escape route planned okay well

18:29

the raft can get you 700 miles across

18:32

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and conditions apply So

20:01

back to painting my game Charles, this

20:03

is my fourth time coming back. What

20:07

was the inspo? I have been

20:09

obviously doing makeup for a really long time now

20:11

and I've had so many offers to you know

20:14

start an incubator brand, have all these investors do

20:16

all sorts of different things but

20:18

I really didn't know what I wanted to do

20:20

to make my mark on the industry and when

20:23

I created my palette with Morphe

20:25

years ago that unlocked like a

20:27

new area of my brain where it was

20:30

the coolest fucking thing to make that

20:32

palette and bring it to life with

20:34

the creative and the marketing and just

20:36

designing everything involved and seeing people get

20:39

it and create just art

20:42

on their face. It was the coolest fucking thing

20:44

to me and I've been drawing and painting ever

20:46

since I was literally like two years old. My

20:49

mom has like all the artworks

20:51

displayed at the home. I have like all those

20:53

crazy things on my Instagram from years ago as

20:55

a kid. So I've always had so much love

20:57

for art and weirdly before I

20:59

got into makeup too I used to do

21:01

portraits of like celebrity women. I've always just

21:03

loved women's faces and that's how I

21:05

got into makeup in the first place was doing other people's

21:08

glam. So I think I've just always

21:10

loved like symmetry and beauty and

21:12

just like art. So that was the inspiration

21:14

behind the brand was I wanted to create

21:16

products where people could create artistic makeup looks

21:18

for an everyday affordable price. Okay

21:22

great answer. You have about like boom

21:24

boom boom. Let's talk about the

21:26

marketing. Yeah. The campaign and

21:29

that TikTok video will multiple

21:31

of them. Who

21:33

like is the artistic director but

21:36

like they're incredible. Thank you. So I

21:38

work with literally I have my team right here at the

21:40

house. It's myself in every single meeting and I have a

21:42

couple of people that work with me on my creative and

21:44

we do everything ourselves. So we don't have an agency. We

21:46

don't have an outside source with everything. It's

21:49

just basically like in hell. I

21:51

think there are so many makeup brands on

21:53

the market these days. And it's so hard

21:55

to stand out. So with Painted

21:58

you know obviously we're working on making sure. our

22:00

formulas are incredible and are at a great

22:02

price point. But at the end of the

22:04

day, every brand has a blush. Every brand

22:07

has an eyeshadow palette. Every brand has an eyebrow

22:09

product. So of course, we're working on innovations for

22:11

the brand. They would love to create products that

22:13

truly have never before been seen. But in these

22:15

beginning stages where we're just working on creating the

22:17

staples for the collection for people to add to

22:20

their everyday routine, we're not

22:22

reinventing the wheel. For us, it's

22:24

about great formulas, but how can we get

22:26

people excited about a new palette? How can

22:28

we get people excited about a new sponge

22:30

or a new product that they probably have

22:32

already used 100 variations of? But

22:34

how can we prove and market that ours

22:36

is the best? Yes. So that's been a really

22:38

fun challenge for me. It's like, how

22:41

can we f*** with people a little bit? How can

22:43

we get people excited? How can we get people talking?

22:45

Yeah. So that's been my favorite part of creating the

22:47

brand. That's a really good

22:50

creative process. Like, I'm going

22:52

to try that s***. I don't know what

22:54

I'm selling, but I'm going to do it. You're

22:56

going to sell your stock in this new company that

22:58

we're selling. No, I'm actually selling the

23:00

whole idea. We

23:04

have several witnesses. That's

23:08

very true. And I have my own. I

23:10

have my own too. And you have your own too.

23:14

What would you say from your

23:16

collection stands out

23:19

or makes it different? I mean, I

23:21

think our create paints are super f***ing

23:23

cool. I'm so proud of the

23:25

basic canvas palette, but it is a neutral palette.

23:27

We were super upfront and transparent by saying, this

23:30

is not groundbreaking. It's not revolutionary. That was the whole

23:32

point of the entire campaign. But I think the create

23:35

paints, the first product that we launched truly were something

23:37

really f***ing cool that a lot of people don't already

23:39

have in their makeup collection. They were not the first

23:41

paints on the market. So let me make that clear.

23:43

I'm not taking credit for that. There were several other

23:46

amazing brands that had paints before me. But

23:48

I think that it

23:50

comes across like a product that might be

23:52

really hard for an everyday consumer to integrate

23:54

into the makeup routine. But that's what a

23:56

lot of our videos and marketing and educational

23:58

content was about. how it can

24:01

be used by anybody. Okay. We

24:03

have 10 colors as of right now. And

24:06

you know what, we have red, orange, yellow, green, and purple pink, but

24:08

we also have brown, white, and black. So the

24:10

black is the perfect paint for your eyeliner. The

24:12

brown can be used for freckles, lip liner, eyeliner,

24:15

and your waterline for all sorts of gorgeous looks,

24:17

even contour people were using it for. Same

24:20

thing with like the pink for blush. So you can

24:22

really use them in all sorts of different ways that

24:24

people might not really figure. And it's

24:26

been really cool just to see how people have

24:29

integrated into their makeup routines, even in ways

24:31

that I would have never expected. Yeah, that's really cool

24:33

because it's like a multi use product. And everyone,

24:35

you know, when we were taking meetings with these

24:38

billion dollar companies that wanted to invest into the

24:40

brand or wanted to, you know, run the brand

24:42

in the first place, everyone

24:44

said, you did this Morphe palette, release the

24:46

palette first, you need to do the palette, you need to put something

24:48

out that everyone's going to want to buy. But

24:51

I was like, if I'm making this brand, that's all

24:53

about art and getting people to fucking be creative. Can

24:55

you imagine if I had this brand called Painted, it's

24:57

all about art and then the first launch is a

24:59

neutral palette. Let's

25:02

be for fucking real. Yeah, it would

25:04

have gotten it would have dissolved in

25:06

four seconds flat. So I wanted to

25:08

I was really sad and stoned about

25:10

I want to release the

25:12

product first that will set the standard for what this

25:15

brand stands for. And I was

25:17

so blessed and grateful and pleasantly

25:20

surprised by the sales even of

25:22

create paint. And of course, the palette did exactly

25:24

what we thought it was going to do. But

25:26

it's been really cool to see that people are

25:28

still interested in creative makeup looks and color and,

25:30

you know, trying

25:32

cool shit. It washes off at

25:34

the end of the day. So I think it's so

25:36

cool to just try new stuff. You're

25:40

you are brilliant with makeup.

25:42

Obviously, you are a

25:44

genius with marketing. Thank you. I'm

25:46

gonna have you help me on

25:48

my next campaign or whatever I do. Ready

25:50

to go. Really? I

25:52

think marketing is so fun to me. I think it's so

25:54

cool. It's not

25:57

for me. Why

26:00

do you say that? I don't know. It just, it doesn't

26:02

come naturally to me. Oh

26:04

my God. What were you

26:06

gonna say? No, I wanna hear what you're gonna

26:08

say. I just recently, did you, everybody

26:10

in this room listened to this. Did you know, this

26:13

is gonna blow your fucking mind. Wait, I'm scared. Did

26:15

you know that if you get a call from a

26:17

blocked number on star 67, okay, if

26:20

you go to your call log of all the phones

26:22

and you click on the number, even

26:24

though it says blocked number block

26:28

or no caller ID, you can press

26:30

your little fucking finger on that

26:32

no caller ID and click copy. And

26:35

if you scroll over to the keypad where

26:37

you go to dial a phone number and

26:39

you double top and click paste, it will

26:41

give you the phone number. It's

26:44

that easy. Did you know that? I don't,

26:46

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

26:48

no. I swear to fucking God. No, no, no.

26:50

I swear to God. Yep. Can

26:52

someone call me? Okay, I guess you can try this out

26:54

later, but like, somebody just did it to me

26:57

a couple of days ago and it was a fucking man that I had blocked. But

27:00

that's like, that's crazy. Groundbreaking. It is groundbreaking.

27:02

Yeah. Maybe I should have you call me. I just

27:04

feel like I'm gonna call you. Oh, I

27:07

wonder if I do. No. Okay.

27:10

No. No. So

27:13

maybe like not that right. It's

27:15

okay. Honestly. I

27:17

think for fiber internet, but I could

27:19

not get AT&T to install a tower in my

27:21

backyard, sorry, to disappoint. Sam always makes fun of

27:23

me for how cheap I like to

27:25

be, actually, to be honest. I don't like

27:27

to spend my money on, I like to

27:30

pick and choose how I like to spend my money. I'm

27:32

very, I wouldn't say that I'm a frugal, but

27:36

I value certain things more than others. Same.

27:39

I think I'm very similar. Like I feel like

27:41

every rich person has like a collection of cars. I

27:43

have one, you know? I spent all

27:45

my money on my house. I love my house. I'm

27:47

a homebody. You bought it. I love being here. I

27:50

did. It was an investment. I love

27:52

entertaining. It was a vested property, obviously, but like I

27:54

only have one car. I don't have one Birkin and

27:56

I regret the purchase. I do

27:58

not have a full crazy collection. I have a Birkin. and

28:00

the Kelly. Okay, you're doing

28:02

better than me? I didn't pay for them

28:04

though, but. You're really doing better than

28:06

me. I did pay for the Kelly. So hot.

28:08

Wait, I did pay for the Kelly actually. Even not

28:10

paying for, somebody bought you a Birkin? Yeah.

28:13

That's so hot. I know, right? I love that

28:15

for you. I know. Okay. You better work, Deva.

28:17

And it was a good one. Okay. I

28:20

bought my own and I paid way too much money for it.

28:22

The Kelly, like I regret. Well,

28:24

did you do like, whoever bought- Directly from Hermes?

28:26

Yeah, did you do it through Hermes? No, me

28:28

neither. It's so impossible. I don't

28:30

care to play the game. I

28:33

kind of do, okay? But it's too

28:35

much. Like I don't have time. No,

28:39

I swear to God, I don't have time. I

28:42

just think like- You

28:44

have to like go to Hermes. I'm going to

28:46

go and buy a fucking headscarf or like a

28:48

Twilly. Yeah. What the fuck am I going to tie

28:50

it on unless it's a Birkin? Right. I think I

28:52

need a 50 Twilly collection for when I get

28:54

one handbag to tie all of them on. No.

28:57

I don't care. I don't care. But you

29:00

can dress it up in different ways and

29:02

maybe like- No, to be, I think too,

29:04

whenever the bitches that have Birkins keep their

29:06

shit in their fucking roomed

29:08

or a temperature controlled closet with the fucking stuffing,

29:10

it's- That's a thing? That's a thing, yes. Well,

29:12

to be fair, they do hold value. So it's

29:15

an investment. It's just like a house that's an

29:17

investment property. So I get it. That's fine. If

29:19

you're like, you're collecting to one day sell, that I can

29:21

respect. But if you're actively wearing them, I

29:24

think it's so much cooler to me and actually

29:26

says you have real money. When your bath looks

29:28

like shit. I agree.

29:30

When it's falling apart, when it has scratches and scuffs,

29:32

that means you don't care about the value of it

29:34

and you're actually using it. A

29:36

hundred percent. That's why my Kelly have

29:39

a huge scratch on it that I

29:41

accidentally did to it and I was

29:43

crying about it, but now I'm gonna

29:45

play it off like- The first day I

29:47

got my Birkin, my best friend farted in it. And ever

29:49

since then, it's drooped. He

29:52

opened the bag and just farted inside. And ever since

29:54

then, it's never been the same. I'm,

29:58

that's the funniest thing I- I've ever fucking

30:00

heard. But also-

30:03

I've paraded the leather. Please.

30:07

I also think if

30:09

your Birkin or designer

30:11

handbag is in a

30:13

crazy color, that screen's rich. Like

30:17

if you have it in black, it's like,

30:19

okay, you're using that as your everyday bag. She's

30:22

calling me poor. I

30:24

mean- The

30:26

pair of Sultan t-shirts stop being poor.

30:28

And there's no Wi-Fi. There's Wi-Fi and

30:31

it's fiber internet. Let's relax, okay? I

30:33

can't control the phone service. If you

30:35

want to call AC&T and get a tower installed, be my

30:38

fucking guest, okay? Is this our first fight? Are we fighting?

30:41

You don't like it when I say rich, you don't like it

30:43

when I say poor. I

30:45

recognize the privilege that I have and I recognize

30:48

that I'm in a far better monetary situation than

30:50

a lot of people are. But

30:52

I'm certainly not sitting here flying

30:54

on private jets every day and going

30:57

to expensive dinners and with a thousand car garage, it's not my

30:59

vibe, I don't care to be. Really?

31:02

No. That's not important to you. No. For

31:05

me, I love sending my money on experiences,

31:07

memories that I will always cherish, trips,

31:09

vacations, fun activities. I'm a whore for

31:12

an excursion. I love an escape

31:14

room. What's an excursion? Oh, escape room.

31:16

Like when you're on vacation, I have no

31:18

desire to- Bifblining? Yes, yes.

31:21

When you're on vacation, I have no desire to either stay in the

31:23

hotel or lay on the fucking beach. Are you

31:25

one of the type of people on vacation where you're like sleeping at

31:27

2 p.m. because you're like, oh, it's my time off? I

31:29

wouldn't sleep in. No, no,

31:31

no, no. If we're vacationing, we're vacationing. No, if

31:33

I'm vacationing, I wanna see the culture of the

31:35

place that I'm in. I wanna go, I wanna

31:38

do fun shit. I wanna make memories. I don't

31:40

wanna lay on a fucking beach. I can do

31:42

that anywhere. I can do that in Santa Monica. Okay,

31:45

true. That's true. But

31:48

I live in New York. So where the

31:50

fuck am I gonna lay? Where

31:52

the E for a bird? Like a vacation baby. Okay,

31:55

but you can do that here. I

31:57

just, I do not like.

31:59

when people go on vacation and

32:01

want to do activities from morning till

32:04

night. And I feel like that's you,

32:06

but I love you. No, that's fine.

32:08

That's fine. That's such a great boundary that

32:10

we've now set. So now we know it's

32:13

with this new founding friendship, we shouldn't vacation

32:15

together. And that's fine. And

32:17

I don't mean that in a city, but some people shouldn't travel together. I

32:19

was about to say, oh my God, yeah,

32:21

we could balance each other out. And then

32:23

you were just like, we should not go

32:26

on vacation together. I think that every friendship

32:28

has different boundaries and

32:30

standards and levels that they can reach. I think some

32:32

friends, you know, some friends, you could go on a

32:34

trip with for a month and never get bored. Some

32:36

friends you can only be with for a couple of

32:38

hours. And by the end of it, you're like, oh

32:40

my God, I love you so much, but like, I

32:43

just need a breather. And that's fine. Yeah. That's

32:45

what life's all about, it's not mine. Yeah. If

32:53

you've been listening to me since day one,

32:55

you know that I live in New York

32:57

City, but what I do not talk about

32:59

is in the past, I would honestly just

33:02

take whatever I could get. First

33:04

apartment was a mattress

33:06

on the floor. It was a studio

33:08

apartment the size of my room. And

33:10

there were cockroaches everywhere. I

33:13

mean, I would find an ad in the newspaper and

33:15

I would just put in a deposit

33:17

without ever seeing it. Sounds good to

33:19

me. Now we've moved on

33:22

up people. And when I was

33:24

looking for the apartment that I

33:26

live in now, I had some

33:28

things that were absolutely non-negotiables. Like

33:31

I need an in-unit washer and dryer to

33:33

be able to do laundry. I

33:35

need a doorman. Did

33:37

I need heated bathroom floors? No,

33:39

but it's nice to have. And

33:41

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33:44

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34:38

played by Mahalala of Leave the World

34:41

Behind and HBO's industry. A brilliant

34:43

scholarship student who has to quickly adapt

34:45

to her newfound eat or be eaten

34:48

world. Ava's ambitions take hold and her

34:50

small-town values break in hopes of becoming

34:52

the first scholarship student to make the

34:55

list. Bishop Gray's all coveted academic top

34:57

ten curated by the headmaster himself, but

34:59

after realizing she has no chance at

35:02

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35:04

accepts an invitation to a secret underground

35:06

society that pulls the strings on campus

35:08

life and academic success. If she bends

35:10

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35:13

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35:15

Academy takes you into the world of

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35:19

and sex collide in a game of

35:21

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35:30

by joining Wondery Plus. I'm

35:39

not that, I'm not that, a few

35:42

hours and then it's like I'll see

35:44

you next time. Yeah, why not say

35:46

that? I just said maybe not a vacation. I

35:48

like to get up and go you know I

35:50

don't want to sit around. I was in Australia

35:52

a couple months ago we did snorkeling on the

35:54

Great Barrier Reef. Okay what did you see?

35:56

I will never forget that. What did you see and I swear

35:58

to God we're gonna get back. to on

36:00

topic. There's some coral. Okay,

36:03

well I- That's so cool, you know? We

36:05

helicopter into the Great Barrier Reef to go snorkeling. Okay,

36:08

I'm gonna have to one-up you. I

36:10

went snorkeling in Hawaii and I saw

36:12

an eel and an octopus get in

36:14

a fight with each other. And the

36:16

octopus- That is a one-up. And

36:18

the octopus- That's crazy! Like

36:22

you took a helicopter, like

36:24

I saw some real shit.

36:26

The octopus released ink. Really?

36:28

Yes. And the octopus

36:31

won. Well, octopus don't ink, squid do. Wait,

36:33

what? No, octopus do too. I

36:37

don't think that they do. We

36:39

have marine biologists up here with an F over here. Marine

36:43

biologists. Okay,

36:45

music. Yes. Call

36:48

me back. My cousin and I

36:50

were listening to it over and over today. Oh

36:53

my god! It's really, really

36:55

fucking good. Thank you, dude. Thank

36:57

you! That means so much.

37:00

Yes. I also, just for

37:02

the sleuth and everyone listening, like

37:04

heard James singing just a little

37:06

bit around the house. Your

37:09

voice is incredible. Incredible! Thank

37:11

you. I appreciate that. I've

37:14

been singing for a thousand years. Ever

37:16

since I was literally like a little

37:18

baby, I've been singing my entire life far before I

37:20

ever discovered makeup. And unfortunately

37:23

for me, it's all been documented online. There's

37:26

so many awful videos of

37:28

me singing. All these viral

37:30

memes and stuff. And it's fine. I

37:32

love laughing at them. But I've always

37:34

really, really wanted to work on my

37:36

own original music. But I was honestly

37:38

traumatized from a lot of the hay and

37:40

the videos that were made. And

37:42

just so scared of wanting to get it perfect.

37:45

But I finally found the right team to help

37:47

make it happen. We

37:50

talked all about all the shit that I went

37:52

through earlier. That was the entire inspiration for the

37:54

project. One thing I talked about, it was a

37:56

shitty situation. But I feel like it was a

37:58

great learning lesson. blessing in

38:00

disguise to of course make

38:02

me more careful on the dating end

38:05

but also give me this this new

38:07

venture and this new chapter of my

38:09

life that I'm so fucking excited for.

38:12

Yeah. Was it really emotional? I

38:15

can tell. I can tell by how you're talking

38:17

right now. I thank fucking God

38:19

we had like a little bit of

38:21

a technical difficulty last night before I

38:23

started singing the songs with everybody. Why?

38:26

Because you were crying? No, no. I

38:28

was like what I've

38:30

done when we had all the rehearsals I sobbed

38:32

every single time leading up to singing it. Yeah.

38:35

But last night we had a technical difficulty where the

38:37

track like just wasn't playing and

38:40

the piano wasn't like working through the speakers so I

38:42

had to just sit there for like a couple of

38:44

minutes and just like

38:47

tell weird jokes to get it to

38:49

get the crowd not uncomfortable. That honestly

38:52

made me feel so much better about it so I

38:54

didn't cry. I didn't. Well I did but not until

38:56

after I sobbed actually when I

38:58

walked inside. No, I could feel it

39:00

right now but that's what makes

39:02

incredible music, you know? Like I

39:04

said, I've loved music forever but I didn't

39:07

really know what I wanted to talk about and

39:09

all this shit happening to me once again

39:11

once I switched my mindset and

39:14

realized like you're not the victim. So

39:17

like reframe your thinking.

39:19

Yeah. And this

39:21

entire project is basically every

39:24

single song is about different aspects of love and the

39:26

growth and the learning experiences that I've had

39:30

with just relearning how to love and how to

39:32

how I want to be loved. Call Me Back

39:35

is all about getting ghosted which is so prevalent

39:37

in today's culture and society and it fucking drives

39:39

me crazy. Like we talked earlier with no people

39:41

I would so much rather have somebody just be

39:43

like, hey thank you for the conversation but I

39:46

just don't think this is part here. I wish

39:49

you the absolute best. It's so easy to

39:51

fucking say that and of course that might

39:53

hurt but that to me is I

39:55

would so much rather be hurt by

39:57

that than be left wondering without. closure

40:00

why this person left but I

40:04

had to stop and realize at

40:06

the end of the day silence

40:08

is worth thousands of words yeah like I

40:11

say in the second verse of the song

40:13

that's one of my favorite most important lyrics

40:15

of the entire thing it's so

40:17

important to be able to find closure and

40:19

getting ghosted or you will drive yourself crazy

40:21

I agree

40:24

with that I feel like

40:26

I'm the type of person who would

40:28

go really and maybe

40:31

I yeah I mean everybody's different

40:33

everybody feels comfortable with you

40:35

know interacting in certain ways you would

40:37

be the type to say I'm

40:39

just not into it and if somebody's doing

40:42

something wack as fuck that bye baby I'm

40:44

fucking Casper up in here okay I'm gone

40:46

you better call fucking Ghostbusters you know where

40:48

to be found okay but if I'm having

40:50

a good conversation somebody or

40:52

if I've been talking to somebody that I respect and it's

40:54

not wrong to mean any sort of way yeah maybe I'm

40:56

not feeling it maybe they made me you

40:59

know a little bit uncomfortable or I'm or something

41:01

it just isn't fitting the vibe I think it

41:03

takes 30 seconds try to kind message

41:05

being like thank you so much I just don't think

41:07

that this is the right fit I wish you

41:09

the best that solves so

41:11

much problems it doesn't leave anybody wondering and

41:13

of course it might hurt for a moment

41:15

but I personally just as much

41:18

as I do always say that I would much

41:20

rather hear that as well then get ghosted I

41:22

would rather be ghosted then

41:26

someone texting be like I also feel like

41:28

you have I mean from you know

41:30

doing my research on you I think

41:32

you have some pretty high standards when

41:34

it comes to they didn't miss check

41:36

the bank account miss Birkin back check

41:38

the bank account that one will follow

41:41

me for ever I mean I everybody

41:44

has different boundaries now I need to know check

41:46

IDs before I talk to any person exactly

41:49

and that's fine yeah I know

41:52

IDs and social security

41:54

I hate dudes

41:57

that are on social media

42:00

Yes, when you

42:02

get in a serious relationship, will

42:05

you be public with that person?

42:08

Yes, but after a really long time. I

42:11

think that I've been a clout token far too

42:13

many times for men that I didn't give a

42:15

fuck about. So I would really want

42:17

to make sure that the person that I'm with, I was

42:20

positive that they were in it for the right

42:23

reasons and not trying to use me for anything

42:25

other than genuinely loving the human being that I

42:27

am before posting it. But

42:30

my entire life has always been online. I love

42:32

making content online. And of course I want to

42:34

make cute shit, bitch. I love the fucking likes

42:36

on a relationship video. You want to show

42:38

them off when you're still in. As long as

42:40

I'm positive that it's the right vibe. I

42:44

will not. Okay. Will

42:46

not. I love that. Good

42:49

for you. And sometimes I think maybe that's like

42:51

unhealthy as fuck. I don't know. Everybody

42:54

has different boundaries. Everybody has different things that they want to

42:57

do. I think that also like

42:59

when you're in the public eye, it's just risky. It's really

43:01

dangerous. And that's why I want to wait. But eventually, you

43:03

know, it's going to come out. Of course. I mean,

43:06

I don't love like I'm not a big going out

43:08

person. I'm not like out on the town that often.

43:10

But you know, I go to ride carpets and events

43:12

very frequently that I'm grateful to be invited to. I

43:15

love going out to eat with friends. Oh my God. I

43:17

need to eat. You like to drop carpet.

43:19

You drop the hand when you get to the

43:21

carpet though. No, I'm not dating anybody.

43:23

So I have nobody to bring with me to a day. What

43:26

if you just brought like a casual date? Oh

43:28

my God. For like a first. Bitch. No,

43:31

no, no. Listen. No,

43:34

this is something that this

43:36

publicist from forever ago told

43:39

me was like, just

43:41

take someone

43:44

just to get people talking. No,

43:47

kind of. No, no, no, no,

43:49

no. I would never do that. Whatever. Because

43:52

people are going to find out who that is. And

43:54

that's just, that's just as much even if you're not

43:56

posting them on your platforms. Yeah. As much as a

43:58

cloud token for the other. person if press

44:00

picks it up if tiktoks are made if people on

44:02

Twitter find that same shit that's

44:05

true but it gets people talking about

44:07

me it's

44:09

not it after all that I've been through in the mistakes

44:12

that I've made the last thing that I want people discussing

44:14

my dating life any further so no I've there was one

44:16

guy that I was talking to you for like six months

44:18

that I brought with me to a Halloween

44:20

party and it was great it was fine

44:23

he was everywhere no it actually went

44:25

nowhere it was perfectly fine it was great but my

44:27

point is that I talked to him for half a

44:29

year before I was willing to bring him anywhere public

44:31

with me okay anything weird he was perfectly fine and

44:34

normal it was great vibe didn't go anywhere either so

44:36

it was it was fine and the Halloween

44:38

party you had him with a mask no

44:40

a lot of the guys that I used to

44:42

spend my time talking to to

44:46

were guys that would treat me like a science experiment

44:48

or like a secret and that's also a trap that

44:50

I fell into quite a lot and one of the

44:53

topics that gets brought up a lot in some

44:55

of the music that I've been working on and I

44:57

think that was one of the things to where I've even

45:00

a lot of the guys that I used to spend

45:03

my time talking to I couldn't have even brought to

45:05

things even if I wanted to because it was guys

45:07

that would want to talk to me in private or

45:09

hook up in private or hang out in private but

45:11

would never be willing to be out in public and

45:14

now I've learned that I deserve somebody that's going to

45:16

be proud to love me and be with me whenever

45:18

that person comes no that

45:20

was a important lesson learned to

45:22

you're making me self-reflect your

45:24

entire album just

45:27

seems like there's so many lessons

45:29

and you've lived a lot of

45:31

life yeah so I

45:34

know everyone thinks I'm like a hundred years old I'm literally

45:36

24 I've just been doing this since I was 16 so

45:39

it's been eight years in the

45:41

public eye so yeah I lived

45:44

eight lifetimes yeah 20

45:46

28 lifetime a lot

45:49

um what are your

45:51

other plans when it comes to music we

45:53

like we need more I have no idea I

45:56

have we need you on tour no

45:58

we don't we do we did not me on tour

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47:08

today. I

47:12

am so

47:16

fucking grateful that the response of the song

47:19

has already been really positive. I'm just taking

47:21

it one day at a time. I am

47:23

not working on this to be a pop star. I

47:25

don't want to tour. I don't think that I'm some

47:28

fucking musical icon and genius. I worked

47:30

on this project as a healing process for

47:32

myself. I worked on it as a form of therapy and

47:34

that's all that this is to me. I don't care about

47:36

the number of streams. I don't care about the money. I

47:39

am putting in a lot of work and effort into

47:41

the marketing and the visuals because I genuinely find a

47:43

lot of interest in that. And I'm not doing that to

47:45

blow up the song. I just want to

47:47

be able to tell my story of the things that

47:49

I've gone through and hopefully be able to help anybody

47:52

that might be going through the same thing. I think

47:55

that was the one of the most interesting things for

47:57

me is all these situations are so deeply personal that

47:59

I felt so alone. and dealing with because a

48:01

lot of them were very unique, but I was shocked

48:03

to see how many friends and people have been able

48:05

to relate to the situations if you

48:07

look at them from a bird's eye view. So for me,

48:09

I'm just taking it one step at a time. I do

48:12

have several other songs written and recorded

48:14

that are ready to go if

48:16

the time feels right

48:18

and I decide to

48:20

put it out, but I truly do not have any

48:23

plans. And that will not be a James Charles tour.

48:26

I guess I should never say never, but as of

48:28

right now. I think there

48:30

should. I am self-aware enough to know that

48:32

I've become a meme far too many times for poor

48:35

singing. And even though I am

48:37

so proud of my... What, what, what? That's

48:39

all you wanna know. Oh, there's hundreds. I

48:41

can educate you later on. Okay. But I'm

48:43

smart enough and self-aware enough to know that

48:46

my vocals have greatly improved as I've trained

48:48

them over the last several years, but I'm

48:50

not fucking Mariah Carey. I'm not Ariana. I'm

48:52

not Beyonce. Okay. If I

48:54

went on stage for a tour and even had

48:56

one note go wrong live, which is of

48:59

course going to happen. I'm

49:01

not perfect. Neither is anybody. Right. But

49:03

that would, that would unfortunately, I think

49:05

really, that would become the entire topic

49:08

of conversation with the entire project. But

49:11

also who cares? Have you seen my memes on

49:13

Mariah Carey? I do. I'm traumatized from

49:15

getting made fun of for something that I love doing.

49:17

Okay. Yes, that's true. But

49:20

why are your lips singing? Thinking?

49:23

Girl, because that's lame to me. Oh.

49:26

I feel like that's what I would do. If

49:28

I'm performing live. No,

49:30

that was suggested to me as an option for, you

49:32

know, the performance we did last night with the fans.

49:35

But I was like, no, absolutely fucking not. Well, I

49:37

worked my ass off for years with vocal coaches and

49:39

with training and with, you know, once again, my own

49:41

personal health journey to get to where I am, to

49:43

even be able to talk about these subjects in the

49:45

first place. If I'm going to, if I'm

49:47

going to, I said to myself, if I'm ever going to

49:49

release a song, I better be able to sound exactly the

49:51

fucking same if I sing that live. Damn.

49:53

For us, then it's not, it's no point.

49:56

You're a true artiste. And I'm

49:58

not just blowing smoke. up

50:00

your ass. I heard the song,

50:03

the lyrics, the way, like your

50:05

emotional response to us talking about

50:07

it. Like that's a true... I've

50:09

wanted to do this for so long and now that it's out

50:12

it's getting a pretty good response. It's

50:14

like more than I could ever ask for. I'm just

50:16

happy to tell my story. Wow. James,

50:18

thank you so so so much

50:21

for doing this. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

50:23

I feel like we had great conversation.

50:25

A little wacky but

50:28

really deep. Yeah. And we've learned a

50:30

lot about each other. We have. We

50:32

won't be taking a vacation any time

50:34

soon. We're fuller opposites. But I'm in a...

50:36

If you were on a vacation where would you go? Where

50:38

would you bring me? Off

50:41

the top of my head. I mean you,

50:43

Costa Rica to do all the

50:45

adventures that they have there.

50:48

I've got a great

50:50

choice. Where would you

50:52

take me? He's like...

50:55

No I'm thinking shut up. Maybe

50:58

like Paris.

51:01

Oh my god. Got got

51:04

it twice. That's what I was thinking

51:06

in my vein. Okay

51:08

so we know each other.

51:10

Bonjour. Bonjour. We we

51:13

we. Okay we're gonna

51:15

post a link to your song

51:17

and everything else. And

51:19

James I love you. Thank you so

51:22

much. And Sloots. I will

51:24

talk to you next week. James do you want to

51:26

say anything? Listen to the song.

51:28

Yeah thank you for having me. My first ever song, Call

51:30

Me Back, is officially out now on all streaming platforms. You

51:32

can go and find it. I hope you guys love it

51:34

as much as I do. You

51:36

can shop Painted, my makeup brand,

51:38

at Painted.co on all socials at

51:40

Painted.co. And of course I am

51:42

James Charles everywhere. Thank you for

51:44

having me. Thank you for being

51:46

kind with the conversation. I really

51:48

appreciate everything. And

51:52

I have to be so fucking loudly. So goodbye.

51:55

And my song is up my butt. And like I need

51:57

to pull it out. Bye. for

52:00

the millions were