0:14

Pushing.

0:29

I'm khalide Yabron Muhammad.

0:31

I'm Ben Austin. We are two best

0:33

friends, one black, one

0:35

white.

0:36

I'm a historian and I'm a journalist.

0:39

And this is some of my best friends

0:41

are.

0:42

Oh no, no, no, no, I'm not you know, some of my

0:44

best friends are. You know.

0:47

In this show, we wrestle with the challenges and

0:49

the absurdencies of a deeply

0:51

divided and unequal country.

0:54

Today on the show, we are talking with writer

0:56

Samantha Irbie. She's an author, comedian,

0:59

and TV writer. Her essay collections

1:02

We Are Never Meeting in real life and

1:04

Wow, No Thank You are New

1:07

York Times bestsellers, and heratest

1:09

collection out this year is called Quietly

1:11

Hostile and believe me when

1:13

I tell you it is hilarious.

1:16

Yeah.

1:16

Man, you should be laughing already. I mean, Samantha

1:19

RBI's writing is so honest.

1:22

She makes public what most people keep

1:24

private, and man,

1:27

she's the kind of funny that both

1:29

hurts and feels good at the same time.

1:32

We are so grateful to talk to her

1:34

about embarrassing moments she's had

1:37

about mental health and parenting,

1:40

and her work on the latest season

1:42

of The Sex in the City Reboot.

1:44

Yes, let's do it.

1:47

Let's do it. I promise you you're gonna laugh.

2:11

Okay, all right, all right, Samantha

2:14

Irbie, welcome to some of my best

2:16

friends.

2:16

Are thank you for having me?

2:18

What a provocative title

2:21

for a podcast boom?

2:23

Yeah, but you know I

2:26

came up with it.

2:26

I mean, I know the white person came up with

2:29

it.

2:29

Come on, but

2:32

that's exactly how white people do. They just take

2:34

credit for shit they didn't actually do.

2:36

So, yes, we to

2:39

revisionist history. So sam

2:42

I got a question for you though, because I read

2:44

in your new book that you said

2:46

you always regret being on podcasts,

2:49

and we were like, oh shit, like

2:52

you know, so what do we need to know not to

2:54

fuck this up? For you?

2:56

Well, it's never the host. It's always

2:58

me. It's always my inability

3:01

to present myself

3:04

as a smart and capable

3:07

person. So you,

3:09

oh my god, will.

3:11

I have to say that? That that feels a little

3:13

bit like like a breakup line, like it's

3:16

not you, it's me.

3:19

That's true.

3:20

Well, we have incredible editors,

3:22

so you're gonna sound amazing. They make

3:24

us sound just just one.

3:25

They put a couple more wrinkles in my brain

3:28

that would help.

3:30

So you have recently

3:33

published another book, Quietly

3:35

Hostile, a book of essays, and man,

3:38

are you just raw

3:40

and raunchy and riotous

3:42

and hilarious?

3:45

Yeah? Yeah, cover

3:48

of the reprint.

3:50

How did you become a humorist? I

3:53

mean, you know, we are really interested,

3:55

We try our best to be funny. We have moments,

3:57

but you do it for a living, and you

4:00

you write incredibly, So

4:03

like, is there a moment when you were a kid and you

4:05

you told a joke, like on the playground in

4:07

grade school and you're like, fuck, and

4:09

not only did I just insult that person, but

4:11

I'm hilarious too, Like, tell us, tell us

4:13

your origin story of becoming a humorous

4:16

Well, First.

4:16

Of all, humorous sounds very

4:19

fancy for what I do, so

4:21

thank you for giving me a

4:24

fancy title. Growing

4:26

up, I definitely did not think,

4:29

oh, I'm gonna tell jokes for

4:33

a living. Like I grew up poor

4:35

with mean old black people who

4:37

were like, you have to work, Like

4:39

you have to take care of yourself, you have to work. So

4:42

I think, like my defense mechanism

4:44

as a kid who was like fat

4:47

and poor and had messed up teeth

4:49

and like never had the right fashion

4:52

or whatever. Was to

4:54

develop a sense of humor, because if I laugh

4:56

first, it takes

4:59

the sting out of when other

5:01

people do it. And so I

5:03

think I became like pretty self deprecating

5:06

early, and that's an easy

5:09

way to become beloved, which

5:11

is really my singular

5:13

goal is to have people like love

5:15

me. I

5:18

mean, this is like a first date. I'm expecting

5:20

you both to love me at.

5:21

The end,

5:25

right now, right

5:27

now.

5:28

But when I mean I

5:30

started writing my blog in two thousand

5:32

and eight, I started writing a blog

5:35

on MySpace, and I knew

5:37

I was like, you know, you're conversationally

5:39

funny, You're funny at a bar or whatever. I

5:41

knew I had that going for me, and

5:44

I started this blog to convince this

5:46

dude to have sex with me, to prove

5:49

that I'm a writer.

5:50

It worked, Hey, way to go, oh

5:52

wait, wait wait, So I have to clarify this.

5:54

So it was the quality of.

5:56

The writing that convinced

5:58

the guy to have sex with you, or that what

6:00

you said in the blog convinced the guy

6:02

to have said.

6:03

Okay, let's be for real. I could poke

6:05

a hole in a box and

6:07

get a man to have sex with it. So

6:10

I don't know that the writing, but

6:16

it was because he told me like he

6:18

was into girls who were writers,

6:20

and I was like, oh, I'm a writer, but

6:22

I had nothing to show for it. So then

6:24

I started this little blog and it's like, look,

6:27

I'm funny, right, And

6:29

then he agreed.

6:33

That may be

6:35

the nerdiest sex story I've

6:37

ever heard.

6:38

It was so dumb. I mean, in

6:40

hindsight, like it feels a little like pathetic.

6:43

But I don't

6:46

know that I would have started blogging for

6:48

any other reason than

6:50

trying to convince people

6:52

to date me. So thank

6:55

you to that dude.

6:56

It worked. It worked.

6:58

You've become an incredible writer, and according

7:00

to what you write in your latest book, you've

7:02

had lots of sex.

7:03

This is a week.

7:04

Yeah, not anymore. I'm done because

7:07

I'm married to a woman. We

7:09

don't have to do that. We just talk

7:11

about what our cats are doing.

7:14

So, and Sam, I want to ask you,

7:16

so, Khalil and I are both Chicago people.

7:19

We grew up on the South Side of Chicago together,

7:21

and you're from what we call Chicago Land.

7:24

You're from Evanston, and I

7:27

wonder like, is there something Chicago

7:29

or Chicago landish about your brand

7:31

of humor.

7:33

Well, oh that's a good question.

7:36

Yes, I am from Evanston.

7:38

People from Chicago do not

7:40

allow you to say you're from Chicago

7:43

if you are from Evanston.

7:45

So I'm from Evanston. Chicago

7:48

has a huge what

7:50

we call live lit community,

7:53

like a storytelling community. And

7:56

I think shortly after I started

7:59

writing my little dumb blog, which was

8:01

just for my friends, I had no aspirations

8:04

to do anything with.

8:05

It, never monitor in the name

8:07

of the blog.

8:07

Bitch has gotta eat, bit

8:10

just got to eat. So

8:13

I started like writing to

8:16

perform in front of

8:18

like crowds and bars. There was

8:20

a show at the Burlington, at

8:22

the Hideout at the Horseshoe, Like, I'm

8:26

like all of those shows, and

8:29

I definitely was writing

8:31

to get to the

8:34

like to move those audiences.

8:37

So I definitely think Chicago shaped

8:40

like what what I

8:42

think is funny based on how

8:44

people respond.

8:46

To Ye, I

8:48

like that. I like that. And Sam, I

8:50

mean, you write in this book and

8:52

you say that you are embarrassed

8:55

all the time. Yeah, and

8:57

even you know you're embarrassed of yourself.

8:59

Yeah, And and I wonder what

9:02

it means then to reveal

9:05

the most embarrassing things about yourself, Like,

9:07

what's the power in that? I mean, you have old

9:09

essays about shitting in public,

9:11

about finding not not like not in a toilet.

9:13

Let me let me be clear

9:16

about the finding public toilet.

9:18

That's how I start saying it from

9:20

that not in a toilet.

9:24

You have an essay about the kind of porn you like

9:26

or don't like. I mean, you are you

9:29

reveal everything that's inside

9:31

that you feel uncomfortable about. You

9:33

you make public, and so what's the power

9:35

in that of doing that?

9:37

I think for me, it's about like

9:41

connecting with people who feel the same

9:43

way or who can relate

9:45

or identify in some way.

9:48

Like that is where the strength. I

9:51

don't know that I receive

9:54

it, but I do enjoy like providing

9:56

it. So like if you are poop

9:59

shy and you read one of my books

10:01

and then the next time you're at a restaurant

10:04

and you're like, uh, I

10:06

have to poop, you could say to the

10:08

table lit I'm going to be

10:10

back in twenty two minutes. Order

10:13

your apps, get cocktails.

10:16

I will be back. I'm

10:18

like, if I can free someone

10:20

else to do that, then it's

10:23

worth it.

10:24

It's worth I'm gonna My wife

10:26

needs to read this, then she really is, Oh

10:28

is she poop shy? She's a little

10:30

poop shy in front of you reason And

10:34

what's fun? I read this like Khalil

10:37

is like not only the least poop

10:39

shy of any person I've ever met, Like he's

10:41

not self conscious in any way, Like I've known him since

10:44

we were children, and he

10:46

is just like so comfortable in his skin in

10:48

the sense that like the subjects that you

10:50

write about, he wouldn't even think to write about them

10:52

because he's like, oh, these are like what these aren't

10:54

taboo? You just do them. Like

10:56

like he farted in class when we were in high school,

10:59

when he was giving a speech in front of the class. I

11:01

would still wake up in sweats thirty

11:03

years later remembering that moment, and

11:05

Khalil was like in that moment, was like looked

11:08

up at the class, was like I just farted.

11:12

I didn't know what I didn't know what else to do. I

11:14

was so I was embarrassed by it. I was like, everybody

11:16

clearly heard this, so I

11:19

have to just acknowledge it because I was mortifying.

11:22

Yeah, so I have a I have a self deprecating

11:24

story to tell about pooping because.

11:26

As I was reading your book. As I

11:29

was reading.

11:30

As I was reading your book, I could not help but

11:32

think about this moment. So I

11:35

ran the Schomberg Center for

11:37

Researching by Culture, a Harlem

11:39

institution.

11:40

Go ahead, Ben, we have a drinking game that each

11:42

time you mentioned Harvard or the Schomberg we

11:44

everyone did get the drink.

11:46

All right, fine, god, okay, all right, so we got that out

11:48

of the way.

11:48

Okay. So so it's like

11:50

the first.

11:51

Two months on the job and

11:54

we're having a social on a Friday afternoon

11:57

in like late July, and so you know,

11:59

the whole staff is there and it's kind of

12:01

like, let's get to know our new director. So

12:04

I go to the bathroom just before this

12:06

moment.

12:07

I come out.

12:08

I am in like a sharp suit without

12:11

the without the coat, but I have on, you know, slacks,

12:14

a very press shirt and a tie. And

12:17

I'm milling about meeting people like,

12:19

hey, what are you doing this weekend? I'm trying to get to

12:21

know these folks who are looking at me very suspiciously

12:24

because they're like, we don't really know you. And one

12:26

woman taps me on the shoulder and she

12:28

says, you have toilet paper

12:30

coming out the back of your pass. So

12:36

I was like, what could be

12:38

more embarrassing than literally

12:41

having toilet paper because you just took a ship

12:43

before you came meeting.

12:49

Not to minimize your horror,

12:52

yeah, exactly, like I see

12:54

you, I respect you, and that ain't that

12:56

ain't nothing? All right?

12:57

So so so, Sam, So I.

13:01

Have a follow up about one of your series, and just

13:04

so this whole story about the guy

13:06

you were dating a couple of fours below

13:08

you. He has a pee fetish, and

13:10

the way you tell the story like it ends

13:12

in this crazy moment. So just

13:15

just for our listeners, just give the quick version of

13:17

that story.

13:18

I dated this dude who I met in the laundry

13:20

room. Now

13:23

I'm not very discerning, is

13:26

I guess what we're going to get to the bottom of here.

13:29

But he was so hot,

13:32

Oh my god, I met him.

13:34

We started hanging out. He was cool, He

13:36

was so good in

13:39

bed, like beyond,

13:41

which I think is why when

13:44

he asked if I would be on him,

13:46

I considered it because I was not

13:50

doing it as a deal breaker, then I'm

13:54

gonna do it. But

13:57

logistically, I

13:59

mean, you know, a Rogers Park

14:01

apartment building. He had

14:03

a tiny I mean, we all had a

14:05

tiny bathtub, and that is

14:08

the best place for or piss

14:10

play because it goes right

14:12

down the drain. After

14:16

I practiced and got good at it.

14:19

One time he collected

14:21

it in his mouth

14:23

and then he spit it back down my throat,

14:26

which maybe is

14:28

hot. I

14:31

don't want to yuck anybody's yum,

14:33

but I thought I was

14:35

going to pass away. Not

14:39

good for you. But if you are got into

14:41

that, it's not a good surprise.

14:43

That is fucking funny.

14:46

I was so mad I had to let break

14:50

up with him.

14:53

You can't. I can't drink my

14:55

own piss, my own leg recycled

14:59

baby birded piss Lilla.

15:05

Listen, we are going to take a short

15:07

break and talk to sam

15:09

Erbie a bit more about how

15:12

she lives her life and makes

15:14

so much fun and enjoy out

15:16

of it.

15:17

We'll be right back.

15:36

Welcome back to some of my best friends are We

15:38

are talking to the author and humorist

15:41

Samantha Irby, author of her

15:43

latest book Quietly Hostile. So

15:47

we know from your book that you got

15:49

a COVID dog just like tell

15:51

us about.

15:51

A Abe is

15:54

a nightmare creature from

15:56

hell. We

16:00

Kirsten, my wife, didn't want a

16:02

dog. I mean I didn't really. I'm a cat person,

16:05

Like officially, I

16:07

didn't really want a job either. But it

16:10

was like the height of COVID and

16:12

we're in this tiny house. It's me, her

16:14

and her two kids, and I

16:16

think, just for the diversion

16:18

of it, she started looking at dogs

16:21

on the spca's website. She found

16:23

a dog, a little tiny Chihuahua

16:26

who was a million years old, named Granny,

16:28

and it was like, she hates walking, she

16:31

only likes cuddling and eating. And

16:33

I was like, oh, that's me as a dog.

16:36

Let's get her. And

16:38

somebody adopted her before we could. And

16:41

the dog that they had left was

16:44

Abe, who is a At

16:46

the time, he was a six month old

16:49

Chihuahua mix. He's I

16:53

mean, he is really the

16:55

worst. He hates me. I mean

16:58

he tolerates me, but he only

17:00

loves the white people in the

17:02

house. He's a little bit racist,

17:05

even though he's a POC

17:07

as well. I'm like, come on, Chihuahua

17:10

yet with the brown yeah, with the brown team. This

17:13

dog is anti black. He even

17:15

though I'm very nice to

17:17

him, but he just he's

17:20

too dumb to train like he does a

17:22

lot of stuff that I'm like, Man, look

17:25

at that dumb dog, but

17:28

I hate him, but we'll have

17:30

him forever because he weighs eleven

17:32

pounds and tiny dogs live like

17:35

twenty years. So I'm

17:38

hoping that we can grow

17:40

fond of each other.

17:42

And Sam, I want to I want to talk more about

17:44

COVID because yeah, I mean, so we're talking about

17:46

COVID dogs, but your book is really a COVID

17:48

book. Yeah, it's about it's about you know, these

17:51

stories that you tell or are living through

17:53

the pandemic. And I

17:55

don't think you I think you maybe say this in

17:58

the book, but I know I've heard you in an interview say

18:00

that you were diagnosed with obsessive

18:02

compulsive disorder, and I

18:05

mean, there, I'm not minimizing this in any

18:07

way, but there are ways that I mean, I know that during

18:09

COVID I became obsessive about all

18:11

kinds of things, like you know, we're going crazy locked up

18:13

in the house. Is I saw a psychiatrist

18:16

for the first time ever in my life during COVID,

18:20

and so yeah, I just want to

18:22

hear more about about that moment for

18:24

you, and you know, I mean even maybe for you Khalil.

18:27

So the the pandemic,

18:30

I was like, oh, this is

18:32

great. I hate going outside,

18:34

I hate interacting with people. It's

18:37

my time to shine.

18:40

And one of the things that happened like, I don't

18:42

think I left the house for the first year

18:45

and I'm not exaggerating, and

18:49

it's hard to it's

18:51

hard to know what you're like when you

18:54

don't have other people to bounce it off

18:56

of, right, when you don't see how

18:58

what you're doing in relationship to other people.

19:01

And as soon as we

19:03

were like out in the worlds a little

19:05

more, I noticed

19:07

that my anxiety,

19:10

my like nervousness, was ratcheted

19:12

up. I was super and

19:14

I still am hyper vigilant.

19:16

I was always just waiting for someone to hit

19:19

me or attack me or yell

19:21

at me for doing something wrong, even

19:23

though I wasn't doing anything. And

19:26

I think being in you know, being

19:28

sort of closed off for

19:30

for like two years, woke

19:34

up the OCD

19:36

beef, yeah, and I was

19:38

like, I don't feel

19:41

like I understand myself.

19:43

I'm scared of things that are not scary.

19:47

What am I doing? And so I got a

19:49

psychiatrist and I, you

19:51

know, everybody self diagnosis

19:54

a little bit I did not expect

19:57

OCD, Like she was

19:59

asking about all these random things that

20:01

I didn't think were anything, and she

20:04

was like, you have so many OCD

20:06

patterns and behaviors.

20:09

I'm sure you're really struggling.

20:11

And I was like, I am.

20:13

And so now

20:16

I'm on three hundred and fifty milligrams

20:18

of zoloft every day and

20:22

I am not fixed,

20:25

but the sort of noise in

20:27

my head has been quieted a little.

20:30

I feel like a little more normal.

20:32

I had a psychiatry psychiatrist

20:35

experience that didn't really work out,

20:38

and meaning.

20:39

Like I'm not I'm not surprised, No,

20:42

I am.

20:43

I'm the opposite of Khalil, like I don't like talking about

20:45

myself. I'm like uncomfortable about it.

20:47

And just what you said,

20:49

Sam of like your psychiatrist being like,

20:52

oh here's what I'm seeing. My

20:54

psychiatrist would never do that, and

20:56

she would say, oh, that must that must have been really

20:58

tough. And so then I'd say like, hey, this

21:00

is kind of weird. Can you tell me what, like,

21:03

like what patterns you're seeing or like what

21:05

you're making of this? And she

21:08

she could. I dreaded these appointments

21:10

because I was like this is just gonna be like a drag.

21:13

Yeah. I know. Some people with psychiatrists

21:16

have the opposite problem,

21:18

where they want the therapy and

21:21

the doctor is just like, no, I'm

21:23

a brain doctor. I don't care

21:25

about your feelings. Here are some pills.

21:28

I'm like, no, I'm gonna say a bunch of

21:30

stuff and then at the end you unravel

21:32

it and tell me what's want, Tell.

21:34

Me something, Give me something here. Damn

21:39

I imagine your I don't. I don't even know

21:41

how this sounds bad. Like you're probably really

21:43

good in psychiatry,

21:46

like oh, like like your book itself

21:48

is like the writing experience is like getting healthy.

21:50

Yeah, it's like, look at the ramblings

21:53

of this crazy person. I, unfortunately

21:56

for both me and my providers,

21:59

cannot like not do a

22:01

comedy bit the whole

22:03

time.

22:05

Like I.

22:06

Started an essay for this book and I didn't

22:09

finish it. So we'll see if it ever sees

22:11

the light of day called a Tight

22:14

sixty, which is basically

22:16

about my hour long

22:18

comedy route for my various

22:21

mental health.

22:24

That's hilarious.

22:26

Love that.

22:27

Yeah, so so speaking so

22:29

speaking of COVID and maybe

22:31

if you'll indulge my crassness here

22:34

being a little crazy in that moment.

22:36

So let's talk about teenagers because

22:41

I live because you have some

22:44

really helpful tips about

22:46

how people should live with

22:49

teenagers. So share with us

22:51

your how to guide to living

22:53

with and raising teenagers.

22:55

I think, well, I think the most important

22:58

thing. First of all, I have to

23:00

be honest and say I'm doing zero

23:03

raising. I just sort

23:05

of live adjacent to

23:07

the children. I tried

23:10

to keep them from making enormous

23:12

mistake that I that I

23:15

see coming.

23:16

Uh, and I clarify

23:19

are your wife's children, right?

23:23

I mean, first of all, I live

23:25

with that fear of like, not to get

23:27

all racial about it, but if

23:30

I ever get into a scrap with these kids,

23:37

right quick wond

23:41

and blue eyed, if these almosts are

23:43

like, you know, the

23:45

police

23:47

immediately, So I don't get into

23:50

it with them because I hate the idea

23:52

of jail. I would never survive. But

23:56

I think my biggest secret

23:59

is just to act like the

24:02

coolest person in the world who doesn't

24:05

care about anything. Because

24:07

if you act like you're interested,

24:10

they they take that power

24:13

and.

24:13

They'll hate you for it.

24:14

Yeah, they're

24:16

like, oh, you want to know something about my life, Well, here's

24:18

a tiny little piece that sounds

24:21

like it might be something good. But I'm not going

24:23

to tell you the rest.

24:24

That's more words than I get. So Sam,

24:28

in your essay, you have bits

24:30

of advice like, do not try to engage

24:32

your bond with them, Yeah, never, never

24:34

earnestly ask for their opinions

24:37

on anything you like or enjoy. Do

24:39

not give them any books they're going to

24:41

shoot on them. Do not expect

24:43

thanks, yep, don't talk to their friends.

24:46

And the one like positive you had is

24:48

do get tattoos.

24:50

Yeah. I have a lot of tattoos. They

24:52

think they're cool, the friends

24:55

think they're cool. All my tattoos are

24:57

so dumb, so that's

24:59

that's good. But yeah, I

25:02

all of the things, like all of the things

25:05

you that would be your impulse with

25:07

a kid, like be sweet to them

25:09

and like ask them about school

25:12

or ask them about their shirt

25:14

or whatever. They just don't

25:17

care and they're never gonna give you what

25:19

you want, especially if they can

25:22

like sense that you really want

25:24

it. So my strategy

25:27

is just to act like they're

25:29

you know, vaguely interesting strangers

25:32

who I occasionally run

25:34

into in the kitchen, and

25:37

it works. I have great relationships with them.

25:40

Yeah, yeah, I'll say I'll say that the difference

25:42

when you've raised them and they're teenagers,

25:44

you're just like, damn, like I

25:47

took your ass to that bullshit soccer game

25:49

back when you were seven, and you're not gonna

25:51

answer me right now, like or like you

25:54

know, like like it's all still there,

25:56

like for real, yes, Like that's how you're gonna everything.

25:59

So personally, you

26:01

guys, keep the part

26:04

of you that wants

26:06

to just walk around the

26:08

house pointing out the price

26:10

of everything you've paid for

26:13

in order to get the kids to like shut

26:17

up in respect.

26:19

So my kids, my kids sometimes

26:21

listening to this show, but even a lot of times they don't.

26:24

But there were many times when they would turn

26:26

their back and I would give them the double middle finger and

26:30

it was great. I would feel a lot better after

26:33

it, just like you

26:35

know, they wouldn't know, and that was like I recommend

26:37

that to people.

26:38

That's smart.

26:40

Yeah, And I will just admit

26:42

I have thrown my youngest daughter's

26:45

cell phone against the wall at least once. I'm

26:47

not I'm not proud of it, but it needed

26:49

to happen.

26:50

See that, and I would

26:52

be which is why it's good that

26:55

I'm not because I wouldn't be

26:57

able to turn that off. I would just be like, oh,

26:59

you don't want to do your homework, Well here

27:02

go you're Jordan's I'm setting them on fire

27:04

in the front, you know what I mean, Like I wouldn't be

27:06

able to stop.

27:08

Yeah. Well, Sam, we are going to take

27:11

one more break and we are excited

27:13

to come back and talk to you about Sex

27:15

and the City. We'll be right back.

27:39

Welcome back to some of my best friends. Are

27:42

We are talking to Sam

27:44

as In Samantha Irbi and

27:47

you. Sam are one of the writers

27:49

on the reboot of Sex in the

27:52

City, one of the most popular

27:54

HBO series but

27:57

also one of the whitest shows white

27:59

women and their sex lives

28:01

in the history the

28:03

history of serialized television. And

28:06

so you are part of a reboot

28:09

and just like that that I

28:11

think now is in its second season. We

28:13

want to talk about like your

28:16

role as a writer in the writer's room.

28:18

We want to hear like how the characters

28:20

came together. I'll admit my

28:23

wife and I watched the original. We

28:25

also watched the reboot.

28:27

And I hope your wife wasn't

28:29

one of the many people emailing

28:31

death threats to me. It's

28:35

okay if she.

28:36

Did, but people were people were emailing

28:38

you death threats. Yeah about I.

28:40

Mean I was like about the like stiletto

28:44

heel show, like are you kidding

28:46

me? The Funky spunk show,

28:49

Get out of here? Okay.

28:52

So when when

28:54

The Room started, Michael Patrick

28:56

King, who is the showrunner and executive

28:59

producer, had already

29:01

created the characters

29:04

like the the new pocs.

29:10

So I just want to clarify for people who are listening

29:12

who don't know the show, like me, like, all

29:15

there are three There used to be four white

29:18

women, and then three came back for the reboot.

29:20

And in the reboot, yes, they all got a best

29:23

friend who happened to be a person of color.

29:26

Yes. I just want

29:28

to say, though, yeah, please in

29:30

the emotional support Black

29:33

Lady of it All, It's

29:35

like.

29:35

The version of this story.

29:37

Is there's no other

29:41

way really to

29:43

introduce, Like,

29:45

what is the better way to

29:48

introduce these new characters

29:51

into the show. You have

29:53

to in order to expand your friend group.

29:56

It's not like we all meet one person

29:58

and we're like, she's in. It's

30:00

like, no, I'm at this girl, she's cool.

30:03

I'm bringing her to drinks and y'all

30:05

will love her and then they're exchanging

30:07

numbers over drinks and then we're all friends.

30:10

So I think that is more the

30:12

vibe, that's the fun

30:15

we're going for, rather than like, you

30:18

know, everyone's emotional

30:21

mule or whatever.

30:24

I mean, that's fair, But there is this there

30:27

is this way in which it felt

30:29

as a viewer like, oh,

30:32

this is this post George Floyd moment

30:34

when this very white woman show

30:37

now has to acknowledge that there

30:39

are no women of color, and now they

30:41

have them. And so that's the beauty of writers,

30:44

like you can actually make these things work.

30:46

Yes, yes, So

30:48

Michael sort of had, like, you know,

30:51

an outline of who these women were,

30:54

and then we we get to get

30:56

in there and fill in like little

30:59

details. Let me say, I'm okay

31:01

a detail I added for Naya. I

31:03

wanted Naya to be the

31:05

kind of person who had only

31:08

seen one dick in her life because she

31:10

married her like college

31:13

sweetheart, because

31:15

that is a thing that I

31:17

think, like, as a culture, we haven't really

31:19

explored much, the like I married

31:22

my best friend at twenty two and

31:24

now I'm forty two. We're

31:26

divorced, and I don't know how to date,

31:29

So we got into that, like that's

31:31

a detail, Like we added those

31:34

kinds of things to the characters

31:36

to make them feel more

31:38

like real people. And

31:40

you'll get to see in the second season

31:43

like more of their sex

31:45

lives, which is I know there

31:47

was not enough sex and season one

31:49

for a lot of people, but you're

31:51

getting.

31:52

It all right. Well, Sam, First of all, congratulations

31:55

on writing this show and being part of it. I mean people

31:57

talk shit about all kinds of things, but you

32:00

know, creating things and telling stories,

32:02

and especially for people who do try to do

32:04

it for a living like you and me, it's like, let's

32:07

celebrate it all. Don't get to tell you

32:10

have you have like a full time job as

32:12

a professor.

32:13

But Sam, I still

32:16

tell stories the

32:19

stud you're the straight.

32:22

Yeah. Can I say something

32:24

that I don't know is maybe controversial.

32:29

But I think we hope.

32:31

So I think

32:33

there are a lot It was so funny

32:35

to me, the like backlash

32:37

against Miranda, specifically

32:41

her sort of like learning about racism

32:44

of it all. I feel like

32:46

it mirrored the journeys

32:49

of a lot of liberal,

32:52

middle aged white women, right.

32:54

I mean, black people are not

32:57

reading almost

32:59

said Ero Mex Candy but you know, like

33:02

I'm not reading that anti racist book because

33:04

I'm black, right, I'm example, I don't have to read

33:06

it.

33:06

And you don't have a Black Lives Matter sign.

33:11

We have nothing. We don't

33:13

have a day flag either. But it's like,

33:15

you know, it was so weird

33:17

to me that these women who were walking around with

33:20

like Robin DiAngelo's book and this and

33:22

that and wearing pink pussy hats,

33:24

and like I watched the documentary

33:27

about these white women who paid

33:29

to go to a dinner where they

33:31

could be told that they were racist,

33:33

which I think is crazy, But

33:35

like, are we pretending that

33:38

that didn't happen over the past

33:40

two years, that there weren't tons

33:43

of like upper middle class white

33:45

women like trying to meet somebody

33:48

named Shaneida so they could be friends,

33:51

so they could like prove that they cared. It

33:53

was so weird to me that people were like that's

33:55

unrealistic when we

33:58

just watched it happen. Yeah,

34:02

yeah, and like, hats off to

34:04

them. I think it's so brave to

34:07

try to learn a new thing or do a new

34:09

thing in your life, particularly

34:12

when you're over forty years old. I don't do

34:14

anything new, but yeah,

34:17

I was like, this is the exact type

34:20

of person. We're kind of poking fun

34:22

a little, kind of celebrating her a

34:24

little. But a lot of y'all were

34:26

running around wearing safety pins

34:29

remember that shit. It's like, come

34:33

on, she is.

34:34

You No, I think

34:36

you're you're calling it out. So this

34:39

podcast has explored in so

34:41

many different ways the ways that white

34:44

people, but also straight people, all

34:48

sorts of people trivialize like

34:50

the realities of structural

34:52

racism or other forms of oppression

34:55

and bigotry. So we have a question for

34:57

you. So, do you have

35:00

some of my best friends are story that

35:02

someone said to you along

35:05

the way that they're not X Y or

35:07

Z because they are friends with X Y or

35:09

Z.

35:10

Honestly, I don't

35:13

know that

35:15

I have one. Like

35:18

I grew up in a progressive place,

35:23

and all my like white friends are progressive

35:26

people, and my white wife is

35:29

progressive and her white children.

35:34

You know, the kind of people who would already

35:36

have black friends, you know what I mean,

35:39

like just sort of forward thinking.

35:41

Kind of like kind of like Ben, I get it, I get

35:43

it, like that, like

35:46

friends who might who also might actually

35:48

be you know, kind of black, depending

35:50

on the moment.

35:51

Ben has a

35:54

black wife because he talks.

35:56

There you go, ding ding ding ding.

36:00

Yes, I've been waiting for this

36:02

moment for two years.

36:04

Yes, your life is black.

36:05

Right, The answer is yes, But you

36:08

said something else that's kind of fuddy. So they're

36:10

they're on Twitter. During our first season,

36:13

one of our our listeners tweeted

36:15

at us. It said, how is it

36:18

that the white guy who seems

36:20

to have very little credentials, who sounds

36:22

like a black guy gets to have a show when

36:24

the black guy is a Harvard professor,

36:28

super super educated, and

36:30

like she was basically saying, it's another double

36:33

America.

36:34

Sweetie and Sam, Sam, we both

36:36

have to drink now. He just said Harvard whoa

36:39

Hey Sam, So I have

36:42

a I have a last question for you, and it's about It's

36:44

really about your work. I mean, you're you're

36:47

very right, very specifically about

36:49

your own identity, and

36:52

your work is beloved

36:54

by all. It's really universal

36:56

in a lot of ways. And why

36:58

do you think your writing resonates

37:01

with so many different kinds of people?

37:03

Oh? Man, I have not thought this answer

37:05

out, so prepare for it to be embarrassing.

37:10

I think maybe because I

37:13

write about universally

37:17

irritating things I

37:21

don't like. I don't have a lot of

37:25

takes that are particularly hot,

37:27

right, like not about anything that matters,

37:30

right, like no one cares about like

37:33

the soup at Red Lobster, you

37:35

know, or like whatever would bother me enough

37:37

to write about it. I

37:40

think it's just like I am

37:42

honest but always working

37:45

for a laugh. I mean, I'm always

37:47

like just trying to get you to chuckle.

37:50

And I think people appreciate

37:53

that. And like I'm not preachy

37:56

or you know, I'm not

37:59

an intellectual, so they don't have

38:01

to have a dictionary handy. I

38:03

think it just like goes down

38:06

easy, and it's I write

38:08

into such a conversational way

38:12

that I think people enjoy,

38:14

like sort of having that silent

38:17

back and forth with me.

38:19

Yeah, my theory on it too.

38:22

In addition to all the things you said, you know, you write

38:24

about not feeling good in your

38:26

body, You write about these private things

38:29

like everyone except for Khalil obviously

38:32

feels bad in their bodies sometimes or wants

38:34

to like hide things, and yours

38:36

might sometimes be more extreme, but it like

38:39

it taps into what we're all we're all

38:41

feeling.

38:41

Yeah, yeah, And like

38:44

I think I think when I was a kid,

38:46

I was going through so many terrible things. I had

38:48

such a horrible childhood,

38:50

and you feel so alone.

38:53

And I think one of my goals is

38:56

has always been to just be like,

38:59

listen, if you're going through this kind of stuff,

39:01

so am I so don't

39:03

feel alone. And maybe you can't

39:05

laugh about it, but I can. I'll

39:07

make it funny, and I'll like do

39:10

that for both of us.

39:12

So truly, I just am trying,

39:15

like we're all swimming in the same see

39:18

a vomit, and I'm just trying to like look

39:21

over and be like, hey, this sucks, and

39:23

have somebody else be like, yeah, it

39:25

does the way you said that.

39:30

The title to your next book dedicated

39:33

to you too.

39:34

Well, Sam, we we have had so

39:36

much fun. We've gotten to know you in

39:39

ways that we never thought possible, but

39:41

both by reading your book and also

39:44

talking to you here.

39:45

Welcome and I'm sorry.

39:47

Some of my best friends are. I just want

39:49

to say, I think it's your honesty and

39:51

your authenticity that is so infectious.

39:54

Thanks so much for being on our show.

39:57

So nice. You guys

39:59

are the best, the most fun I've ever

40:01

had recording.

40:02

A pot All right, Yes, we

40:05

get a croud.

40:06

Of clocking Bens

40:08

Nubie and Queen this.

40:16

Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, you're wonderful,

40:18

Sam, thank you, thanks, thanks.

40:20

So much, thank you for having

40:22

me.

40:35

Wow. Man,

40:37

Yeah I am. I am thinking about comedy

40:40

by.

40:41

The way, after I go to the bathroom.

40:42

But anyway, Oh, so you're trying to be

40:44

like you're like the new Samantha Irbie. I love it.

40:46

I love it. You got it, you got it. The

40:49

essay collection comes out soon. Yeah,

40:55

that's what I want to say. It just like comedy

40:57

is therapy. I just wanted to say, like

40:59

in her life, she talked about how it how

41:01

it sort of protected her and healed

41:04

her, and just how

41:06

good I feel right now. Uh,

41:08

you know in Dorphin's kicking in it

41:10

works. H I fucking

41:13

love Samantha Irby. Thank you too.

41:15

And you know what, I just have one callback

41:17

to our final episode last

41:19

season, The Good, the Bad, the Funny, And

41:21

our biggest critique on that show,

41:23

which was about Dave Chappelle, was that

41:26

he didn't know the value of self deprecating

41:29

humor. And so there's a moment in this

41:31

conversation when Sam is like, look, you

41:33

know, talking about myself not only helped

41:35

me protect myself, but it also

41:37

made me really fucking funny, and

41:40

that is the genius of comedy.

41:43

She was awesome.

41:44

Yeah, all right, Love you man, Love

41:46

you too.

41:58

Some of My Best Friends Are is a production

42:01

of Pushkin Industries. The show

42:03

is written and hosted by me Khalil, Jabron

42:05

Muhammad and my best friend Ben Austen.

42:08

It's produced by Lucy Sullivan. Our

42:10

associate producer is Rachel Yang. It's

42:12

edited by Sarah Nix with help from Keyshel

42:15

Williams. Our engineer is Amanda

42:17

ka Wang, and our managing producer

42:20

is Constanza Guyardo.

42:22

At Pushkin thanks to Leitol Molatt,

42:24

Julia Barton, Heather Fain, Carly

42:27

Migliori, John schnarz Retta

42:30

Cone, and Jacob Weisberg.

42:32

Our theme song, Little Lily, is

42:34

by fellow chicagoan the brilliant

42:36

Avery R. Young, from his album Tubman.

42:39

You definitely want to check out his music at his website

42:42

Averyaryong dot com.

42:44

You can find Pushkin on all social platforms

42:46

at Pushkin pods, and you can

42:48

sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot

42:51

fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts,

42:53

listen on the iHeartRadio app Apple

42:56

Podcasts or wherever you.

42:58

Like to listen. And if you like our show, please

43:00

give us a five star rating and a review

43:03

and listen. Even if you don't like it, give it a five star

43:05

rating and a review, and please tell

43:07

all of your best friends about it. Thank

43:09

you,

43:13

Interesting

43:20

S