0:00

What you are about to hear is the work of the investigative

0:02

journalism that explores one woman's search

0:05

for answers in her son's death. The

0:07

views and opinions in this podcast do

0:09

not reflect those of I Heart Media.

0:16

Yo. So this is me. You know. My name is

0:18

Corny Copeman, and the reason

0:21

I'm here is three time my parents. Two

0:24

is the biggest year of my life. You

0:27

know. The world is ours, you know, and

0:29

we just gotta go out there and get it. Let's

0:32

get it. The

0:35

world is ours. We

0:37

just have to get out there and get it. Before

0:48

Courtney died, I was too afraid to travel

0:50

far. I've always had the

0:52

fear of flying. But Courtney

0:54

wanted us to travel more and see the world

0:57

with him.

1:00

Courtney only got a taste of what's out

1:02

there. But since he's been

1:04

gone, I've been all

1:07

over this world. It

1:10

started when Courtney came to me in a dream.

1:12

He told me, Mom,

1:15

I want you to live. I

1:17

want you to go to Dubai. And I

1:19

was like Dubai. When

1:22

I woke up, I booked the trip.

1:25

Bye Mall me and the whole family

1:27

went, but

1:38

Brazil. I

1:41

went there on my own. Here

1:46

I am in the city of Salvador. I

1:49

took this video of people dancing outside

1:51

my window late at night. I

1:54

was trying to sleep, but everyone was so happy.

1:57

I couldn't be mad. At I

2:03

went for a gathering of mothers

2:05

of murdered children. There were

2:07

about a hundred of us there from

2:10

all over, all of us fighting

2:12

the same struggle we're fighting in Chicago.

2:21

In Salvador, we were not far from the main

2:23

square where they used to auction off

2:25

slaves. I

2:29

was surprised that Brazil

2:31

was so afrocentric and

2:34

so black, But then that's when

2:36

I started to understand the amount

2:38

of slaves that were actually sent to Brazil,

2:41

and so it was a learning experience for me.

2:52

There were so many languages spoken

2:55

at this summit. Mom

2:59

after mom we told our

3:01

stories. There

3:07

was one mom whose child

3:09

died of hunger and thirst in

3:11

prison. There's another

3:13

mom whose son got shot

3:15

by police during a massacre.

3:26

Then it was my turn. My

3:30

heart rejoices to see

3:32

the unity that is in this place

3:35

made you're going to ship

3:40

Oh my god. Uh, this

3:43

reunion have brought the pain

3:45

of a lot of mothers. But

3:48

my message to the mothers today

3:50

is I don't

3:53

want you to mourn any longer,

3:56

but to rejoice in the life

3:58

of your children the because they

4:00

are more than what happened to them.

4:03

I think about Courtney, I think

4:05

about all the mothers who told their testimony

4:08

and stories. And

4:10

there's one thing that keeps coming to my

4:12

head. I

4:15

recalled my aunt telling me after

4:18

Courtney died, and

4:21

I tell you, they

4:23

can never kill the lights. Never

4:27

kill the light, Courtney

4:31

Copeland, Brazil.

4:42

It restored my soul. All

4:45

this time I've been fighting so hard, I

4:48

hadn't really had time to mourn. I

4:50

had put all of that on the shelf because

4:53

I had work to do. I

5:01

was starting to feel stronger. And

5:03

it's a good thing, because when

5:05

I got back home, I needed

5:07

all the strength I could get. Our

5:13

case against the City of Chicago was

5:15

looking like an uphill battle. The

5:17

city's lawyers kept fighting us in court.

5:20

They kept denying everything, even

5:24

the handcuffing, and

5:26

eventually my lawyer said

5:29

we should dismiss the case, that

5:31

these cases were just too hard to win.

5:38

I was devastated. I

5:40

was heartbroken. After

5:49

the lawyers told us that, Brent and

5:51

I sat in an empty conference room at

5:53

the courthouse. We've been through

5:56

lawyer, lawyer and

5:59

it's they just they just don't

6:01

just don't want to mess with it. I

6:03

think it boils down to what

6:08

CPD can get away with legally,

6:10

which for me is the reason why I

6:13

feel like so many laws and things have

6:15

to be changed so that that they

6:17

don't have to they don't

6:19

have as much power as they do. Yeah,

6:23

well, the average person in America,

6:26

you cannot win against

6:28

CPD. It

6:39

didn't take long for the police lawyers to announce

6:41

their victory. They wrote on their

6:43

website that the lawsuit was

6:45

unnecessary and

6:47

they called the dismissal a win

6:50

for the City of Chicago. In the police

6:52

department, the

7:00

lawsuit was over, and

7:02

our investigation was too. We

7:07

already gave detectives all of our evidence,

7:09

the names of suspects and witnesses.

7:14

But I was not gonna let my baby die

7:16

for nothing. What

7:35

if what if the

7:37

world was different, What if

7:39

Chicago was different? What

7:42

if moms like me didn't have to

7:44

address their son and tuxedos put

7:47

them in caskets and lower them

7:49

into the ground. Well,

8:01

I'm on my way to meet

8:03

with the state rep right

8:05

now to propose

8:08

Courtney's law. Me

8:14

and my state rep. We've had a couple of conversations

8:17

now about all the reforms needed, what

8:21

my investigation has pulled together.

8:24

Things that I want to try to

8:26

put into this law. Of Courtney's law

8:29

is one that police

8:31

must provide

8:34

life saving techniques because they were first on the

8:36

scene. I think that they should have

8:38

been Minister that I

8:43

want Chicago police to take people who

8:45

have been shot immediately to the hospital.

8:49

And I want those police podcameras to

8:51

work and whole footage longer,

8:54

and all the public records they should

8:56

be all in one place so victims family

8:58

don't have to get the runner down. So

9:03

that's why I'm trying to fight for

9:05

other people. Corney is finished,

9:08

that is done, but if

9:10

I can prevent other parents from

9:13

experiencing this type of pain,

9:16

what I want for other

9:18

parents is that they know with

9:21

certainty that their child died with dignity

9:23

and respect. I

9:25

realized that in all of this

9:27

process that didn't happen

9:29

for my son. I

9:41

read the story about a thing that police do in

9:43

Philadelphia. They call it

9:45

scoop and run. Police

9:48

pick up people who have been shot and drive

9:50

them to the hospital themselves.

9:53

They don't wait for an ambulance. Here's

9:58

video of a scooping run in progress.

10:01

It sounds chaotic, but it's actually

10:04

police trying to help someone.

10:14

This was the scariest moment of

10:17

my life. By far Ian

10:20

Hurst. Herman's was around the same

10:22

age as Courtney when he was shot

10:25

in the middle of the night outside of party in

10:27

Philly. Two police officers

10:30

arrived on the scene. They looked at

10:32

each other, gave a nod. One grab

10:34

my arms and one grab my legs. Um.

10:37

The only issue was is this

10:39

guy going to bleed out or

10:41

not? So

10:44

from the time that you got shot until

10:47

the time that you arrived to the hospital,

10:49

approximately how many minutes was that? It's

10:52

hard to say. I would say less than five minutes, Absolutely

10:54

less than five minutes. In Philly,

10:56

about a third of gunshot victims are

10:59

brought into hospit pootles by police

11:01

themselves. Police save

11:04

Ian's life by running him to the

11:06

e R. I found out the next day that I

11:08

had about forty five seconds

11:10

to a minute before I would have led out.

11:13

I was panicking beyond belief. Um,

11:15

but the police officers were doing

11:18

everything they can to keep me calm. The

11:20

one officer was turned around, asked me

11:22

questions about school, asked me about my

11:24

family, just trying to keep me awake

11:27

and alert. Right when

11:29

they pulled into the emergency room,

11:32

the ambulance pulled onto the street

11:35

and one of the cops kind of jokingly

11:37

said to me, you know, there goes your ride. The

11:41

way it seems now is if I was

11:44

shot in any other major city other

11:46

than Philadelphia, I probably wouldn't have survived.

11:48

It's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around that

11:51

not being the case. Um.

11:54

I know it's not in every cops job description,

11:57

but it just seems like it seems

11:59

like thing that just goes along with protecting

12:01

the community. I

12:05

always believe that if my son

12:07

could have gotten the care that you've gotten,

12:10

Um, that he would be alive today.

12:13

So had he gotten to the hospital

12:16

in time, you know, within five

12:19

minutes, ten minutes

12:21

max, if he would have gotten to the hospital,

12:24

I think they could have saved his life. I'm

12:28

so sorry to hear that. That makes that

12:30

makes me feel so terrible. Ian

12:36

has grown close to the officers who

12:38

saved him. He even tattooed

12:41

their names on his chest. They

12:43

came and saw me the next morning after

12:46

I was shot. UM made a joke about

12:48

how I got to clean out the back of their car because there's so

12:50

much blood in it. You know, these two

12:52

guys saved my life, whether it was

12:54

their job or not. Um so I still

12:56

keep in touch with them. Yeah, I wouldn't be here

12:58

without them, so so I just always keep

13:01

them really close. I

13:04

can't help but think how

13:06

differently I'd feel if

13:09

those officers had just scooped

13:11

up my son and rushed

13:14

him to the hospital. Of

13:17

course, Ian is white. Would

13:21

Philly police have picked up Courtney

13:24

and rushed him to the er? We

13:26

can't say for sure. Scoop

13:29

and run is a longstanding

13:31

practice in Philly, but not in

13:33

Chicago. It is allowed

13:36

here. Chicago police

13:38

have the discretion to do it, but

13:41

the practice isn't encouraged.

13:45

What if my son's life mattered

13:48

to police like Inn's did when

13:50

officers saved him. What

13:52

if when my son came to police

13:54

begging him for help, they didn't handcuff

13:57

him, they didn't check to see if he really

13:59

owned his car. What if they

14:01

went with him in the ambulance. What

14:04

if it had been their kid who had been

14:06

shot on that corner. The

14:11

consent decree is a two page

14:13

document that is the result of ten months of

14:15

negotiations between the Attorney General's

14:17

Office, the Police Department, and the city. After

14:20

two highly critical reports found systemic

14:23

problems in the police department in the use of unnecessary

14:25

and deadly forced in the years since Courtney

14:28

died, the federal court has ordered

14:30

Chicago police to clean up their

14:32

act. Officers

14:34

will have to report every time

14:36

they point their guns at people, they

14:38

won't be able to use chokeos, and

14:41

there are more changes, lots more

14:43

changes. Under

14:48

the consent decree, all of

14:51

Chicago police officers would have to take

14:53

medical and rescue training and

14:55

use it to help people who are injured.

14:57

Even before paramedics arrived immediately

15:01

with no delays. They

15:04

weren't required to do any of that before.

15:11

It's tough living this life

15:13

and the skin we're in. This is Courtney's

15:15

high school friend again, Chance the wrapper.

15:18

I just wish that he was respected

15:20

as a human life on the level that that

15:23

he should have been, that that we respect

15:25

him. And you know, you

15:27

can't, you can't change the skin you're in. You're

15:29

just like you just live your life, and

15:32

you know he lived it to the fullest. There

15:36

are so many people, so many people

15:38

who care about Corney. Every

15:40

time I've interviewed one of them.

15:43

It's like I bring him back to life a little.

15:46

He was one out of a trillion. Everybody

15:48

needs somebody like like Courton Copeland

15:51

in life. He taught me to believe

15:53

in myself. Something he used to always say

15:55

was like everyone deserves happiness. That's

15:57

what he gave people. And he would always

15:59

make me laugh. You know, no matter what,

16:01

that man would make me laugh. It

16:04

would make all of us laugh. And I just

16:06

remember thinking to myself, like,

16:08

where does he get all this energy from?

16:10

I miss him dearly because on

16:13

my difficult days, he was always there for me. If

16:17

there's more people like him, this world will be a

16:19

lot different. I

16:24

tried to interview Courtney's sisters, Kayla

16:26

and Jasmine. They still aren't

16:28

ready to talk about what happened. Tell

16:31

us about your relationship with your brother. It's

16:40

okay, it's

16:44

okay,

16:49

it's okay. You're

16:53

gonna be able to do this. Mh

17:07

dress man. I

17:14

know it's hard for you, it

17:16

seems so. We talked about other

17:18

memories. Every day when Courtney

17:21

came home, he would lay in your

17:23

bed, right, can tell

17:25

us about that. I

17:27

never got to leave my big because he was

17:29

always there, and he

17:32

would do it just to annoy me. So

17:34

what happened when

17:36

you get home from school? I don't have to find

17:39

him out of my bed. Why because

17:41

he wouldn't get up. He wouldn't get

17:43

up. He's always like to lay in your bed. M

18:00

h h

18:08

Hey, Courtney food.

18:22

I love you, Mommy

18:24

loves you so much. I

18:29

hope you knew that. I

18:31

want I love you. I

18:33

want to still love you. After

18:39

all this time, since Courtney passed

18:41

away, all this fighting

18:43

for the truth, I just keep

18:45

coming back to the fact that

18:48

my baby is gone. We

18:51

hope you though. Mm

18:58

hmmm. I

19:19

started a foundation in Courtney's name.

19:22

This is our little sound and workshop down here.

19:25

We do this big Christmas giveaway in

19:27

Courtney's honor. Every year. His

19:29

bedroom is filled with toys

19:33

and we hold this big party at our church

19:35

for all the kids. Really, like everybody

19:37

said, Cortney loved the kids. So

19:39

he used to always take care of all his friends

19:42

kids and and he like adopted them

19:44

all. So Hi,

19:51

what's your name? All Rock? And

19:58

I got a chance about him the

20:01

things. At

20:05

Christmas time, I always get together

20:08

with my friend Santita Jackson and

20:10

help her decorate her place. For the holidays.

20:14

And how have you seen

20:17

me change in the last two

20:19

years. You've just become You're just

20:22

Chapel taken to the in degree. Now

20:25

now you your circle has expanded.

20:27

I've seen you become even more

20:29

traveling. I mean, you're someone who's not afraid of living.

20:32

You live, you live, you live, you live, you live,

20:34

you live, live live with live. But

20:36

I've seen you. This is

20:38

a mission for you. And it's like you're saying,

20:41

Okay, Courtney,

20:44

I'm gonna go on and finish walking for you. The

20:47

world's gonna benefit, boy,

20:50

it's gonna benefit from

20:52

you being more of who Chaparral

20:55

is. You're gonna triumph. I believe

20:57

that Courtney's

21:02

sisters are in college now, But

21:05

me and Brent don't exactly have

21:07

an empty ness. Our

21:10

baby foster twins, Faith in Sahara.

21:12

They're walking around and getting into everything.

21:16

I'm trying my best to party train them.

21:19

Sahara always takes off from her potty

21:21

and then Faith takes off too. This

21:25

is gonna be a long process. After

21:30

taking on the twins, I opened

21:32

up my home to their older sisters too.

21:35

They're teenagers. It's tough

21:38

sometimes, but I hope they

21:40

know I'm on their side. Me

21:44

and Brent celebrated our twentieth wedding

21:46

anniversary. Brent planned

21:48

a party for us. I got

21:50

him some turn tables because he was

21:52

a DJ before he went to truck driving

21:55

school. He was so stoked.

21:59

I'm are you. Probably me

22:03

and Alison and Jamie and all the Invisible

22:06

Institute are still real tight. We

22:08

had a party at my house not too long ago. I

22:12

cooked up with Storm. I'm a

22:15

spaghetti Cajun chicken pasta

22:17

fried chicken. Alison

22:20

brought mac and cheese. She's got

22:22

her hands full too. She's

22:24

expecting another little boy next spring.

22:27

When she told me, I screamed, Oh

22:32

my goodness.

22:36

We're gonna get the twins and her little ones together

22:38

for a play day and

22:42

then there's baby. Someday

22:46

we'll have to say goodbye to this car. Cars

22:49

don't run forever. I

23:05

call this like my heritage wall.

23:08

I love black art. It's

23:11

just it's just our history. And the

23:13

other day I was showing Alison the paintings

23:15

all over my house, and so if you look

23:18

around, this one over

23:20

here in the corner basically is

23:22

talking about the woman who touched the hands

23:25

of Jesus garments. And

23:27

then this one over here in the

23:29

corner is about the underground

23:31

railroad. This one here is

23:33

a slave in captivity, and that

23:36

one is m. Frederick Douglas.

23:39

I always tried to teach my kids about

23:42

where they came from, about

23:44

that we didn't start off a slave. But

23:46

this is something that happens to us. There's

23:49

one painting in particular in my dining

23:52

room. It's of a slave,

23:55

his faces in his hands and

23:57

his hands are shackled. This

24:00

painting is called the Struggle

24:02

Lives on Um. I've probably

24:04

sat at this table what a dozen

24:07

times at least, and

24:09

this is the first time I'm noticing this

24:12

picture on the wall. I've had it

24:14

for probably like twenty years now, and

24:17

it's always been very special to me.

24:20

And we don't know when the artist was painting

24:22

that. If he was depicting that was somebody's

24:25

last moments, last time you know

24:27

that they're going to be alive. Could be

24:29

because we see that he's in deep despair.

24:33

And this

24:35

is the story of my son, Courtney,

24:39

a young black man in a

24:41

fancy car. You black

24:43

people have been shackled and

24:45

abuse for so long, and

24:47

then you have this

24:50

happened to your child. He wound

24:52

up with a bullet in his back outside

24:55

of a Chicago police station. As

24:57

a mother, you do what for

25:00

you can to protect your child, and

25:02

in that moment, I couldn't do it. I

25:05

couldn't do it. And then you say here and you're

25:07

like, I should have been there, and

25:11

it was beyond my control.

25:15

And it's the story of my

25:18

search for the truth. The

25:21

hardest moment in my life was

25:25

finding out my son

25:27

had died, and

25:30

it's still the hardest moment living without

25:33

him. That's

25:35

that's that's my reality. My

25:40

son, Courtney Copeland

25:43

was somebody.

25:48

YEA.

26:17

Somebody is a co production of The Invisible

26:20

Institute, The Intercept, Topic

26:22

Studios, and I Heart Radio in association

26:25

with Tenderfoot TV. I'm

26:28

Chaparral Wells. This podcast

26:30

is produced by Alison Flowers and

26:33

Bill Heally. Sarah Guys

26:35

is our story editor. Ellen Glover

26:38

is our associate producer for The

26:40

Invisible Institute. Jamie Calvin

26:42

is executive producer for Topic

26:45

Studios. Maria Zuckerman, Christie

26:47

Gressman, and Letial Mallard are executive

26:50

producers. Special thanks to

26:52

Lizzie Jacobs for The

26:54

Intercept. Roger Hodge, Deputy

26:56

editor is supervising producer. Sound

26:59

designed by Carl Scott and Bart

27:01

Warshaw. Michael Rayphael is

27:04

our mixed engineer. Our theme

27:06

song, Everybody's Something is by

27:08

Chance the Rapper. Original music for

27:10

the podcast by Nate Fox of The Social

27:13

Experiment and Eric Butler. Additional

27:16

reporting by Sam Stecklo, Annie

27:18

When, Khari Blackburn, raj

27:21

Sinclair, Henry Adams, Matilda

27:24

Voyad, Dana brozos kellerher

27:26

Frances McDonald, Diana Archmagian,

27:30

Maddie Anderson, Andrew Fan and

27:32

risa Apintaku. Translation

27:35

support by Benny Hernandez Ocampo

27:38

and Emma Perez. Fact checking

27:40

by Noah Are Jenny Special

27:42

thanks to Chris Rasmussen, Bennett

27:44

Epstein, Matt Topic, David

27:47

Bralow, and Julie Wolf.

27:49

We want to hear from you. Email us

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at info at Somebody podcast

27:55

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three to seven zero zero

28:02

one to one. To

28:04

learn more about this case and for links

28:06

to additional materials, go to our

28:08

show page at Somebody podcast

28:11

dot com. You can also find a

28:13

list of everyone we want to think there so

28:16

many people helped us along the way.

28:18

Elizabeth van Brocklin's original story

28:21

Scoop and Run, where cop cars double

28:23

as ambulances, first appeared in

28:25

The Trace. Everybody's

28:37

somebody's everything,

28:42

Nobodies knocking