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wondery. Your journey begins at the

1:21

University of Florida. What

1:23

came next is intended for mature

1:26

audiences only. Scientists

1:28

discuss topics that can be

1:30

triggering, such as emotional, physical

1:32

and sexual violence, animal abuse,

1:35

suicide, and murder. I

1:37

am not a therapist, nor am I a

1:39

doctor. If you're in

1:41

need of support, please visit

1:44

somethingwaswrong.com/resources for a list of

1:46

nonprofit organizations that can help.

1:49

Opinions expressed by my guests on the

1:52

show are their own and do not

1:54

necessarily represent the views of myself or

1:56

Broken Cycle Media. Resources

1:58

and source material are linked in the

2:00

episode notes. Thank you so

2:03

much for listening. The

2:28

season 14 of Something Was Wrong began airing on

2:30

October 20th, 2022 and the last episode aired on

2:32

January 3rd, 2023. The

2:39

season highlighted the narratives of Kalin,

2:41

Melissa and Sarah and their very

2:43

toxic, abusive relationships with a man

2:45

named Jake, as well as the

2:48

abuse their children faced at his

2:50

hands. As the season

2:52

progressed, it included several accounts from

2:54

other victims and acquaintances of Jake's

2:57

as well. Jake continued

2:59

to leverage his professional connections

3:01

in the media to add

3:03

validity to his dating presence

3:05

and in turn victimized over

3:07

40 women in and around

3:09

the Seattle area. On

3:12

December 13th, 2022, the guests of

3:14

season 14 also participated in a

3:16

Something Was Wrong live event with

3:19

Tiffany on which they discussed the

3:21

impact of the season and answered

3:23

some listeners questions. One

3:26

week later, a petition was created

3:28

to call for Jake to face

3:30

criminal accountability. And despite the

3:32

fact that less than a year has

3:34

passed since its release, quite a lot

3:37

has happened since. The Broken

3:39

Cycle Media team is so grateful for

3:41

Kalin, Melissa and Sarah's involvement, as well

3:43

as the rest of the guests in

3:46

season 14 and the impact their sharing

3:48

has made. We are

3:50

also grateful to host this conversation with

3:52

Kalin and Melissa about all that's come

3:54

next since season 14 has aired. Hey,

4:01

this is Kaylin. As

4:04

far as my story goes, it

4:06

starts in 2007 and

4:08

goes through my relationship with Jake and

4:11

the six years of emotional,

4:13

physical, psychological, sexual, financial abuse

4:16

that he put me through.

4:19

I knew that he had recorded us having

4:22

sex and he was using it as blackmail

4:24

with me and sending it to me and

4:26

saying like, oh, this is all I watch.

4:29

And I'd asked him several times, please delete

4:31

that. Sometimes it was videos

4:34

I'd never seen before. And I

4:36

know that with Melissa, the

4:38

same thing happened. And

4:40

then finding out that he cheated on me with 40

4:43

plus women, including Melissa, who

4:45

he ended up getting pregnant

4:48

and the journey dealing with Washington

4:51

and California's court systems and

4:53

how difficult it is to

4:55

protect your kids from abusers.

4:59

I know that we started all of this

5:01

and decided to go on the podcast in

5:03

hopes to slow down Jake. Our

5:06

collective story started with one

5:08

of Jake's victims creating the

5:10

Instagram account. That included his name.

5:13

Our hope was that if somebody was

5:15

searching Jake's name on social

5:17

media, that this other account on Instagram

5:20

would come up and then they're warned.

5:22

Whereas now, if you

5:25

search his name online, they are warned.

5:27

You can't look his name up without seeing all

5:29

of this information. And that really

5:32

was the goal. As

5:34

Kalen said, I dated Jake actually

5:37

for not very long. My

5:39

whole timeline with him on a romantic

5:41

level was only a few months. But

5:44

dealing with the family court system and all

5:46

of the abuse that went on with that, there

5:49

was a lot to it. I

5:51

think a common misconception with our season

5:53

was that we started out with the

5:56

goal of trying to have Jake thrown

5:58

in jail. wasn't our

6:00

purpose. We started just sharing our

6:03

stories, hoping that we could dump it on

6:05

that Instagram and leave it. And if anybody

6:07

Googled him, they would find that information and

6:09

it would be there. It wasn't

6:11

something that we even ever planned on

6:13

continuing. It just morphed

6:15

as more women came forward.

6:18

We started to understand that it was

6:20

a lot worse than what we had

6:22

even expected or thought. So

6:24

the mission of all of it had

6:26

changed over the month as

6:28

we realized that he was definitely doing

6:30

a lot worse stuff than we imagined

6:33

that he had been doing for all

6:35

of those years where we didn't have

6:37

contact with him. 10

6:39

years go by and we're hearing from

6:41

these other women that he's doing the same

6:43

thing. I think that when

6:45

around 40 women came forward on Instagram

6:48

is when we really felt like this

6:50

was a bigger story that we needed

6:52

to share. He was traveling

6:54

outside of the country and so we were

6:56

worried that there were women all over the

6:58

place. At that point,

7:00

we had an obligation to say

7:03

something to protect women because he

7:05

was clearly not slowing down. We

7:08

were under the impression that things had gotten

7:10

worse because there were times where he was

7:13

seeing several women at a time. There

7:16

was an urgency there to speak out

7:18

because I do think that this is

7:20

something that he is continually

7:22

doing. And if he deleted

7:25

everything, because of this podcast,

7:27

then amazing. I do

7:30

not want him having videos of

7:32

me and or any of the

7:34

other women that he's been involved

7:36

with. I just want to make

7:38

that clear because I think other people have said

7:40

like, Oh, now he's going to delete everything. And

7:42

it's like, well, that's a good thing in my

7:45

mind. I

7:47

first became aware of the story via

7:49

the Instagram. The account had added me

7:52

and tagged me. I started watching

7:54

the posts and I started

7:56

to see in real time

7:58

women coming forward. sharing their

8:00

stories and was, like

8:03

everyone else, extremely disturbed

8:05

by their encounters and experiences

8:07

with this person. I think

8:10

to Caitlin and Melissa's point, this

8:13

person has not only shown a

8:15

pattern of predatory behavior for

8:17

decades at this point now. He

8:20

also didn't even care when he

8:22

was called out by this Instagram

8:24

account and so many people within

8:26

the area seeing it, he still

8:28

was so emboldened to continue. And

8:31

I think that really speaks to his

8:34

profile as a human being

8:36

and I think that with

8:38

certain abusers it's very evident

8:41

by their pattern of behavior

8:43

displayed through multiple survivors and

8:45

years and years of abuse

8:47

when people are a danger to

8:49

the public. I believe

8:51

that Jake Gravbrough is a danger to

8:54

the public to this day. I think

8:57

he has very little

8:59

empathy, if any at all, for

9:01

other people and he has no

9:03

impulse control and he's dishonest and

9:05

I could go on forever. So for

9:08

me I was instantly curious about the

9:10

story and also just proud from

9:12

a distance that these survivors were

9:14

coming together and taking back into

9:17

their hands a little bit of

9:19

justice and accountability towards this person.

9:21

I then connected via Messenger or some

9:23

way on Instagram and was told that

9:26

a submission had been made through the

9:28

website. So I went there and we

9:30

set up a Zoom pre-interview and the

9:32

rest is history as they say. This

9:35

was the first season where we were really

9:37

breaking a story that hasn't been covered in

9:40

the public previously. So legally

9:42

there's a lot more implications and risks

9:44

for the show and so it felt

9:46

like a really big decision to make

9:49

but ultimately when I had

9:51

heard and learned about what

9:53

had happened to the children,

9:55

my main concern became will

9:58

this individual date someone

10:00

with children in the future. Of

10:02

course, his filming women and all

10:05

of his other horrific things that

10:07

he has done are mind-blowing,

10:11

but this needs to be done. We need to

10:13

warn the public. The survivors

10:16

provided an insane amount of

10:18

proof also was what made

10:20

it possible to actually use

10:22

this person's real name. The

10:25

survivors, when I met with them, they had

10:27

already collected the stories of 40-plus women

10:30

they were already having

10:32

to create timelines and document things due

10:34

to their own legal battles and legal

10:36

abuse that they'll have to continue to

10:39

deal with. And so it

10:41

was because of their work and their

10:43

diligence, honestly, that we were able to

10:46

create the season at all and warn the public. And

10:49

to their point, they didn't come to me

10:51

and say, Tiffany, we want you to go

10:53

to Seattle PD and get this guy arrested.

10:56

It was after we had recorded and

10:59

after we learned everything that we learned

11:01

throughout the season and how much evidence

11:03

the survivors and I then collected, how

11:05

many interviews were done. It was the

11:08

most interviews I've probably ever done for

11:10

any season. The amount

11:12

of corroborating evidence was profound.

11:15

So we thought, hey, here you

11:17

go, SPD, and we're going to give

11:19

you notice, which is honestly a risk as

11:22

a journalist to do that because then you

11:24

have to worry about a gag order being

11:26

placed on you. But again, we wanted that

11:28

justice for the victims. We hoped that they

11:30

would do the right thing, that they would

11:32

act right away. They could get a search

11:35

warrant. They would get his computers and hard

11:37

drives and electronic devices, which does happen, by

11:39

the way, for some victims when they have

11:41

the support of law enforcement. I had just

11:43

spoken with victims who had gotten that type

11:45

of justice. Part of

11:47

the process was reaching out to

11:49

Seattle Police Department, weeks leading up

11:51

to the season starting and throughout

11:54

the season with no reply. Will

11:57

Casey at The Stranger, who's amazing, had

11:59

been sent the podcast by

12:01

a listener and had reached out.

12:03

He was fantastic to work

12:05

with. He spoke with the survivors

12:07

who used their time and energy

12:09

to help others and spoke with

12:11

him too. He went to SPD

12:13

and they finally returned my phone

12:16

call. What I recall about that

12:18

phone conversation that I had was

12:20

I was very angry and questioning

12:22

the officer about what took them so

12:25

long and how ridiculous it is that

12:28

the survivors and I have basically done their

12:30

job for them. She didn't

12:32

say much, essentially said they were

12:34

gonna return people's phone calls now.

12:37

She had reached out to Kalyn at

12:39

that point but what Will

12:41

Casey at the stranger communicated with

12:43

me was that they had done

12:45

an article earlier on the subject

12:47

of Seattle PD. According to

12:49

the Seattle Times article Tiffany

12:52

references, quote, Seattle Police's

12:54

sexual assault and child abuse

12:56

unit staff has been so

12:58

depleted that it stopped assigning

13:00

to detectives this year new

13:03

cases with adult victims. According

13:05

to an internal memo sent

13:07

to interim police chief Adrian

13:09

Diaz in April, end quote.

13:12

We also learned through this process

13:14

that this entire city of Seattle

13:17

had at the time one victim

13:19

advocate that was expected to support

13:22

the entire city of Seattle's

13:24

survivors, which is just insane.

13:26

It's very perplexing and it's

13:28

very disheartening and honestly it

13:30

made me feel

13:32

bad that this is the

13:35

actual reality. It made

13:37

me not even want to put

13:39

that out there into the universe.

13:41

Granted I learned that information after

13:43

the finale but even putting

13:45

it out now in this episode

13:47

it's making my heart race but

13:50

it's also the reality of the

13:52

situation that even with all the

13:54

evidence, all the bravery, all the

13:56

time, energy, everything, it's just like

13:58

sorry and that's really

14:00

uncomfortable truth. The

14:03

live was December 13th. We

14:05

had the live and we hadn't even got

14:08

to the Omari episode. The day that

14:10

we recorded the live, I was

14:12

on the phone with Omari all day. Because

14:15

Jake often used his link

14:17

to the media to add

14:19

validity to his persona, his

14:21

job as a photographer was

14:23

relevant throughout season 14. Omari

14:26

was the owner of the media company that

14:28

Jake was employed by. That

14:30

Tiffany also reached out to. Allegedly,

14:32

they had cut ties with Jake.

14:34

But we have reason to believe

14:37

that he was still being employed

14:39

by Converged Media. That's the only reason

14:41

I remember that that episode was the episode that

14:43

would be going out the next week. That

14:45

was episode I think 10. So we still

14:48

had two or three episodes that aired after

14:50

the live. That's because people

14:52

kept coming forward. Yeah and

14:54

then Omari waited till the day of

14:57

the live to answer my emails. Because

14:59

we hadn't mentioned Converged yet, certain people

15:01

hadn't responded to comment. And I also

15:03

waited quite a bit. Then Jake

15:06

pulled the legal shit. That's why we added

15:08

the episode too. Because right after the live,

15:10

I remember us being on the phone. He

15:12

was really mad about the live. He

15:15

was like so mad. He didn't

15:17

want us doing the live. And

15:19

then the season actually stopped airing

15:21

the last week of the year.

15:24

Before we get to the updates, I do

15:26

want to touch a little bit on the release

15:28

of the season. How did that feel

15:30

to be able to listen back to

15:33

your experiences? Was it healing? It

15:36

was a lot of mixed

15:38

feelings. Hearing it all back.

15:41

It's so easy for me to be really

15:43

hard on myself and feel like I was

15:45

an idiot and listening to it.

15:48

I think I had to forgive myself

15:50

during it. My husband is hearing some

15:52

of this stuff for the first time

15:54

and my parents and people

15:57

that know me from where I

15:59

live now. are hearing this for the

16:01

first time. I think that it's

16:03

hard to hear it back. I

16:05

can see all the red flags now, and

16:07

I can see everything telling my story now.

16:10

But when you're going through it, when

16:12

there's limited on the internet, 16 years

16:15

ago, we didn't have all these,

16:18

like gaslighting, I'd never even heard of

16:20

that. I'd never heard of triangulation.

16:22

I felt like I was being

16:25

financially abused while it was happening.

16:27

But I didn't even know that

16:30

that was really his term. It

16:33

just felt like he's fucking ruining my

16:35

life. He's making it impossible for me

16:37

to take care of my kid, barely

16:40

scraping by. I had trouble

16:42

buying food. Why doesn't

16:45

he see that this is a

16:47

shared responsibility? It definitely was

16:49

one of those things where I felt like

16:51

I needed to hang on to it for

16:53

some reason, and I don't feel that anymore.

16:56

So that definitely, I feel like

16:58

is the biggest positive to come

17:01

out from the podcast. I

17:03

got my life back, if that makes

17:05

sense. It felt like

17:08

it had been lifted, and I didn't

17:10

have to hold it anymore. Because I

17:12

think I was hanging on

17:14

to some of it so that I could

17:16

maybe not tell Emerson one day, but so

17:18

that I could try to explain to her

17:20

why her dad wasn't involved in her life.

17:23

So it was pretty

17:25

stressful, overwhelming, kind

17:27

of in a good way. It

17:29

was incredibly healing, I think, to share

17:31

my story. But it was a lot.

17:34

I think for both of us, that

17:36

was the first time that we had

17:38

really ever sat down and told the

17:41

story in start

17:43

to finish like that. I know

17:45

for me, listening back, it's like really

17:47

hard to hear. I get

17:49

why people are frustrated listening to it.

17:52

I'm frustrated listening back to it, but

17:54

you talk about hindsight. Red flags and

17:56

a cycle of abuse obviously

17:59

looks different than it does

18:01

in the moment. Even when we're telling

18:03

it back, we're laying it out and

18:05

telling this is what happened. Obviously, I

18:07

know where the red flags I missed

18:09

were. I'm telling you all of them.

18:11

It would have been much

18:13

easier for either of us to just leave

18:15

some of that stuff out and we chose

18:17

not to. We tried to tell our stories,

18:19

the good, the bad, the ugly, everything in

18:22

between. It would have been

18:24

easier to sugarcoat some of it so

18:26

we didn't feel like, yeah, I believed

18:28

him when he told me this or

18:30

I went back after he did this.

18:32

I think probably anybody that has existed

18:34

within an abusive relationship can relate to

18:37

that on some level. I mean, there's

18:39

a reason why it takes an average

18:41

of seven times for someone to leave.

18:44

Like, Kaitlyn, a lot of my family, a lot

18:46

of my friends, they had never heard some of

18:48

this stuff. I think the

18:50

number one thing more than anything

18:52

else was guilt and shame of

18:55

all of it kept both of

18:57

us quiet for so long. So

18:59

being able to just phone it all

19:02

and say it out loud where we

19:04

had felt silenced, you're taking that power

19:06

back. In that sense, it was really

19:08

healing. You're able to put it out there and

19:10

release it. I think when you

19:12

say things out loud or when you

19:15

tell it as a whole, you look

19:17

at it a little bit differently because

19:19

we can now pinpoint exactly where we

19:21

should have left, things that were obvious

19:23

red flags that we wish that we

19:25

would have known, mistakes that we made

19:28

for some reason. Even when you

19:30

know all of the information, when

19:32

it's all put together, the way

19:34

Tiffany put it together, it's just

19:37

so impactful. It was heavy

19:39

though. It was a lot. My

19:41

heart just broke week after week hearing

19:43

everyone's stories side by side and being

19:45

able to pick out the parts of

19:48

other people's stories that I related with

19:50

the way that they felt at certain

19:52

points and just remembering what that felt

19:55

like, what the confusion felt like, the

19:57

loneliness and the isolation and feeling like

19:59

this. is never going to get

20:01

better when you're in that fog and

20:03

you can't see past it. You can't

20:06

really trust yourself. You've lost all sense

20:08

of yourself. You've lost your sense of

20:10

confidence in your own judgment. You can't

20:12

even tell what is up or down

20:14

or left or right anymore. That's

20:17

so disorienting to live in

20:19

that space. I remember what

20:21

it feels like. So when I hear other people

20:24

talking about it, it makes me really sad. But

20:26

I'm just really thankful that we're

20:28

all in such better places and

20:31

we've healed and we've grown. There's

20:33

not one person that

20:35

participated in the podcast that I

20:37

feel isn't light years better of

20:39

a person for what we've all

20:41

gone through. We've all grown so

20:43

much. I think that just really

20:45

speaks volumes about the type of

20:47

women they all are. With

20:50

all of our recording, we recorded 24 hours

20:53

worth of stuff. There were

20:55

times where I'm jumping around or we're talking and

20:57

then I'm like, oh shit, I totally forgot to

20:59

tell you that. Let me tell you about that

21:02

story. I think I thought, oh

21:04

yeah, I can just shoot off the

21:06

cuff and it'll be fine. I learned

21:08

very quickly. When you're telling things

21:10

that have happened like 11 to 16 years

21:13

ago, it's hard to

21:15

always remember everything or stay

21:17

in line. I wish

21:19

I had a diary during that time because I think that

21:21

that would have made it so much easier. It's

21:24

so much to encompass, right? And to

21:26

your point, it's like years and years before.

21:29

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21:31

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liquidiv.com. I

25:03

think too, because I have such

25:05

a weird name that maybe I'm

25:07

easier to find on social

25:09

media, but I've had

25:12

several messages from people going

25:14

through something similar and

25:17

asking for guidance, which

25:19

I like to document everything. That's

25:22

my biggest, like I would tattoo it

25:24

on me. Seriously, that's the best thing

25:26

you can do for yourself when you're

25:28

going through something like this. The

25:31

other thing I had people reach out and

25:33

say, my sister or my friend is in

25:35

a similar situation as you or I think

25:38

she is and what should I do and

25:40

how do I approach her? I

25:42

obviously don't have all the answers, so I'm always

25:45

like, well, if it were me, I

25:47

would like you coming to me and saying,

25:50

hey, I'm here for you no matter

25:52

what, no judgment, I'm here. You don't

25:54

have to tell me what's going on,

25:56

but know that I'm a safe place

25:58

and if you need a... place to stay, no

26:01

questions asked, you come to my house, I

26:03

don't care what time it is, you have

26:05

a place to stay. Now maybe that person

26:07

isn't willing to do that, but I do

26:09

think that the people that were close to

26:11

me knew how bad it was, and

26:13

they didn't know how to help me. I

26:15

think if they just said, you don't

26:17

have to tell me, because I wasn't

26:19

ready to share it all, and

26:22

just knowing that I would have a safe

26:24

place to go to, I think that things

26:26

would have been a lot different. I

26:29

had people telling me about their stories

26:31

that they've never told anyone. I

26:33

get never telling anyone, because I was

26:36

always so afraid to tell anyone. I

26:38

just cut all my friends off in

26:40

Seattle for the most part and left,

26:43

because the people that I knew with

26:45

him, I was afraid to tell. Since

26:47

then, they've reached out to

26:50

me and apologized for not

26:52

hearing me when I did try to tell them.

26:54

With the husband in life

26:56

that I was pretty close with, that Jake

26:58

was also really close with, I

27:00

considered them family when I lived in Seattle.

27:03

They all were like, I don't want to

27:05

hear it. And since the podcast

27:07

came out, they've all come to me and

27:10

said, wow, I'm so sorry.

27:12

Thank you for sharing your story

27:14

and giving me support and love.

27:17

It's so cool to not have to

27:19

tell every one of them individually how

27:21

terrible things were. I'm glad

27:23

that they listened and they gave us all

27:25

a chance to tell what we went through

27:27

with Jake. They allowed their perception

27:29

to change. They listened with an open

27:31

mind and it meant everything to me.

27:35

I learned so much from listening to

27:37

other people and

27:39

talking with other people. We had

27:42

so much support. Of

27:44

course, there's a handful of people that

27:47

are saying shit. When

27:49

people are wondering, why didn't she leave?

27:51

Or if this was happening, I would

27:53

have just left and go where?

27:55

With what money? But a lot

27:57

of It is the. Either

28:00

heard a long are they didn't fully

28:02

understand or they don't understand how the

28:05

court system works for they don't understand

28:07

abuse. Because. They've never gone

28:09

through anything like that before. Being.

28:12

Able to try to clear up

28:14

some stuff, I felt like it

28:16

was hopeful and not hurtful. Ah,

28:18

already it was so hard on

28:20

myself hearing it all. Nothing anybody

28:22

to say to me would have

28:24

really hurt. My feelings. The.

28:26

Only time where if I would

28:28

get upset when they were saying

28:30

about Melissa. It's when you

28:33

feel like people are judging your every

28:35

move under a microscope and I'm judging

28:37

at my every move. I'm gonna

28:39

be my biggest critic and seeing how

28:41

did you not feel this, especially when

28:44

I laying it out so clear a

28:46

makes it hard. but I do think

28:48

I probably should have been a little

28:50

bit deeper into the court systems and

28:52

how difficult it is. To. Protect your

28:55

child. When. I also think. That.

28:57

Some places people are listening,

29:00

maybe not always to the

29:02

right reason. Like. Oh

29:04

let me see the train. Leaves

29:07

is the new. We are

29:09

hoping that education pieces there.

29:12

I. Still think that there's so much

29:15

we don't know about this type

29:17

of abuse the court systems haven't

29:19

even caught up with is. How

29:21

can we expect listeners since

29:23

be there. There. Are

29:26

so many hard conversations that need

29:28

to be hard to be able

29:30

to grow and understandings. I

29:32

think it's just a product of

29:34

media in general. People. Tend

29:36

to sometimes forget that were real people.

29:39

The voices that you're hearing are real

29:41

people. So. The opinions

29:43

that you're having about someone's

29:45

choices or someone's life and

29:47

you're posting them on the

29:49

internet. You're talking about someone's

29:51

axles life. Obviously. You're

29:53

always gonna have the people that are just

29:56

there for the purpose of being cruel. We.

29:58

know from our season said one

30:00

of those people that was on

30:02

there being cruel was most likely

30:04

Jake because he had screenshots of

30:06

everything and there were a couple

30:08

of pretty sketchy accounts. I

30:11

think our journey with participating

30:13

in the online discussion, at

30:16

the very beginning, it's really hard to not get defensive.

30:19

And I think we had to get

30:21

over that really quickly. But once we

30:23

actually settled in and tried to like

30:25

understand what people were saying what

30:28

the conversation was, we learned so much

30:30

in that process. There had

30:32

been someone that had posted, why would

30:35

Kaitlyn not just have the custody removed

30:37

when he sent Emerson back with a

30:39

sunburn and ate all her lunch? We

30:42

were just like, that's not how that works.

30:44

When there's a parenting plan, you have to

30:46

follow it. This person finally had wrote

30:48

back and said, oh, I'm not a

30:50

parent. I'm not from the US. So you

30:53

start to understand that they form an opinion on

30:55

it or they don't listen carefully. And then they

30:57

fill in the blanks of what they didn't hear.

31:00

As the season was coming out, we're like getting emails and

31:02

they're like, I work with Jake and he just started at

31:05

my job. Now I'm freaking out and

31:07

he's trying to go by Jacob. Like that's going

31:09

to make things better. People

31:11

aren't going to know it's him. Kaitlyn

31:13

started off by saying that their

31:15

mission was really to spread awareness

31:17

and warn the public about this

31:19

person. They have been so

31:21

successful in that. I think

31:24

it's incredible the awareness that was able

31:26

to be spread through the show and

31:28

literally protect the women of Seattle. I

31:32

just want to add something to that. One

31:34

thing that I was really shocked at

31:36

was how far the reach of the

31:38

podcast was. I've had at least three

31:40

friends that have contacted me. These

31:43

are people that live in Seattle. They

31:45

know me, but they had random relatives

31:47

or friends from the East Coast. One

31:49

was in Europe. One was in Hawaii.

31:51

They had listened to the podcast and knew that

31:53

this person, their family member or their friend lived

31:55

in Seattle and they sent them the podcast like,

31:58

Oh my gosh, look out for this guy. They

32:00

contacted me like, how crazy is that? So

32:03

they ended up telling those people like, oh,

32:05

I actually know Melissa or I know Kaylin.

32:08

We had so many stories like that.

32:10

How many people have heard this story

32:12

and how many people have seen the

32:14

information and the evidence at this

32:16

point is so far beyond anything that we

32:18

ever could have imagined. At

32:21

the beginning, we were hoping that we could

32:23

just warn the women in Seattle. And

32:26

then it became more and more evident that he's

32:28

traveling, he's got upwards of, I think the most

32:30

that we counted at one time was like 11

32:32

or 12 women overlapped and

32:35

they were in different states. He's all

32:37

over the place and he's traveling now

32:39

out of the country because he has

32:41

his passport. We had no clue how

32:43

many victims there could be all over

32:46

the place. The fact that we

32:48

were able to get it outside of

32:50

even the Pacific Northwest but make it

32:53

worldwide is absolutely insane to me. Somebody

32:56

sent it to my husband and was like, do

32:58

we know this fucking guy? Because

33:00

he lived in Washington for quite a

33:02

while and so people have reached out

33:04

to him like knowing that I'm his

33:07

wife and not knowing and saying, what

33:09

are we going to do about this guy? And

33:11

he's like, nothing, we're going to do nothing. I'm

33:14

like, yes, that is the correct answer, we are

33:16

going to do nothing. Definitely

33:18

got to a point towards the end of

33:20

the season, I was just like emotionally spent

33:22

with all of it. I was drained from

33:24

talking about all of it. The

33:26

court stuff going on, the Omari stuff that

33:28

was happening at the end, then we're adding

33:31

episodes. There were so many falls in the

33:33

air by the end. You guys know such

33:35

rumors. In the last

33:37

weeks and even right after we were

33:40

done, we were getting messages from multiple

33:42

people that have listened to the podcast

33:44

and figured out that, oh my gosh,

33:46

this is my friend's boyfriend. In

33:49

regards to Jake's girlfriend, family

33:51

and friends reaching out, it was from

33:53

a place of concern. I Think

33:56

that we spent a lot of

33:58

time worried about her. That

34:00

her son. We. Do things

34:02

we've talked to her of. Yeah,

34:04

those other accounts that we never

34:06

reached out to her. I hope

34:08

she listens even though she's told

34:11

her that we are all lying.

34:13

I. Can't imagine how challenging things have

34:15

been for her. We're.

34:17

Getting all of this information coming and

34:20

to the point where we all needed

34:22

a detox. Kalan. On I talked

34:24

about towards the end of the season

34:26

we were like barely speak a it

34:28

was it out of anything other than

34:30

we were just drains, we didn't really

34:32

have a lot left and the tanks

34:34

to there was a so many different

34:36

things being piled on and every direction.

34:39

We. Just needed time to recharge them.

34:41

So it's been good to be able

34:43

to step away from it and focus

34:46

on things other than date. With.

34:48

The release of the podcast and

34:51

with some distance between it, Melissa

34:53

and I have definitely have had

34:55

time to get back to our

34:58

regular conversations that doesn't include Jake's

35:00

the that's been Nice So have

35:02

each other back in our lives

35:05

without Jake in the middle of

35:07

that conversation. It's. Been

35:09

nice to get back to normal

35:11

life without talking about trauma every

35:14

day because our release and seven

35:16

our friendships have not actually been

35:18

based on him. He would

35:20

only come up in conversation when something happened

35:22

or we needed about things off each other.

35:25

If there was court hearings or anything along

35:27

those lines. It's nice for our

35:29

friendship to get back to the regular

35:31

stuff where we can just focus on

35:33

our girls and focus on being there

35:36

for each other. Also, all the other

35:38

women that we've met along the way,

35:40

we've gotten to get to know them

35:42

more on a personal level as opposed

35:45

to just through the podcast or through

35:47

the instagram page. We were able to

35:49

spend time with a few of them

35:51

in Seattle, go out for drinks or

35:53

dinner, so it's been really nice to

35:56

get to see if some of those.

35:58

women outside of the podcast

36:00

and talking about all of this really

36:02

heavy stuff. Just hearing about their lives

36:04

and what they're doing, them going to

36:06

school or their jobs or their families.

36:08

And that's just been probably the best

36:10

part of the last couple months. The

36:12

new friendships and all the positivity that's

36:15

come from it. I feel

36:17

like there were so many gifts within the season

36:19

that people were able to take away, inspiring

36:22

other people to start Instagram pages

36:24

and Facebook groups like, are we

36:26

dating the same guy? Also,

36:29

I will never forget something that Melissa

36:31

said in the season. This is

36:33

a dog that bites. Sharing that

36:35

piece from her therapist and that

36:37

analogy. I can't tell you

36:40

how much positive feedback we got about that.

36:42

To Kaylin's point about education, people are

36:45

learning and they don't even know it.

36:47

The survivors themselves are teaching one another.

36:49

And I think that's incredibly powerful. I

36:51

don't want to miss on the opportunity

36:53

to share that piece because this is

36:56

a dog that bites examples, opened people's

36:58

mind and gave them a very tangible

37:00

example. They can now take that into

37:02

their lives. Just like Kaylin sharing the

37:04

things that she experienced in the court

37:07

system is going to help somebody that

37:09

is currently in that fight. Tomorrow,

37:11

they have a court hearing that they're feeling nervous

37:13

about and they happen to listen. That's

37:15

one of the fucking coolest parts about the far reach

37:18

of the show. We will

37:20

never even understand the full positive

37:22

impact. It can be the smallest

37:24

detail that y'all have shared about your

37:27

experience and it can be a completely

37:29

life-changing, unlocking mental moment for

37:31

someone else. And that's so

37:33

powerful. I've

37:36

had so many people say to me,

37:38

I wish I would have done what

37:40

we did with the Instagram. There's been

37:42

so many people that have told Kaylin

37:44

and I and even Sarah that they

37:46

have similar stories to us. It's like,

37:48

oh, I connected with my abusive ex's

37:51

ex-wife or ex-girlfriend and we're super close

37:53

now and we've helped each other through

37:55

it. It shows growth, I think, in

37:57

our society because for so long, women

37:59

have... been pitted against each other in

38:01

so many different aspects of life. We're

38:04

taught a little bit to blame other women

38:06

rather than where Kaylin's at where she

38:08

showed all the other women grace. She

38:11

put the blame on Jake who is the one that

38:13

was actually doing all of these things. It's

38:16

a way that as a society, I

38:18

think especially women are taking their power

38:20

back with those things like the Facebook

38:22

group where they're sharing their experiences with

38:24

men and trying to protect

38:26

other women. And as a whole,

38:28

I think they're starting to say, we don't have

38:30

to like sit in silence. We don't have to

38:33

just not tell anyone because we're afraid no one's

38:35

going to believe us. We're starting

38:37

to believe each other and just

38:39

support each other as women. And

38:41

I think that speaking volumes for

38:43

how far those Facebook groups are

38:45

reaching and how many women they're protecting. You

38:48

guys supporting one another, to your point, Melissa,

38:51

that was one of the things that definitely

38:53

stood out from people from the beginning of

38:55

the season was Kaylin's ability to not look

38:58

at you as her competition essentially, but that

39:00

you were able to come together. That's

39:03

amazing. It's women supporting women and

39:05

we definitely need more of it. Stay

39:08

tuned next week for more updates from Kaylin

39:10

and Melissa that you're not going to want

39:13

to miss. The only

39:15

other person that we tried to

39:17

warn was Mike Carrera from MXPx.

39:20

Kaylin's boyfriend had connection to him. We

39:23

were concerned because he had already

39:25

assaulted Ivy at that point and

39:27

Mike was bringing Jake in to

39:29

stay at his house around

39:31

his kids. The most shocking

39:34

part to me was within the first

39:36

few sentences, I recall it saying something

39:38

to the tune of, we've been expecting

39:40

this message. I just

39:42

thought, wow, that's your opener? It

39:45

was so embittered. What

39:50

Came Next is a broken cycle

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