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0:30

tech. Good day, good morning, good

0:32

evening, whatever time of day it is,

0:34

as you listen to this, my podcast,

0:37

Soundtracking with Edith Bowman. I was about

0:39

to say weekly podcast, but sometimes, like

0:41

this week, you get more than one

0:44

episode, which, listen, for us is a

0:46

gift that we have the opportunity to

0:48

have so many conversations about film and

0:51

music. There's so much great stuff

0:53

around at the minute, both in

0:55

terms of cinematic, but also stuff that's going

0:57

on streaming. So, over

1:00

that Christmas period, we are spoilt

1:02

for choice. And I

1:05

can't quite believe I am saying this, to

1:07

be honest, but our latest guest on

1:10

this bonus episode of Soundtracking are

1:13

Sam Eshmael, who's a brilliant

1:16

director, writer, showrunner. He's the

1:18

man who created Mr. Robot.

1:20

And he is joined by

1:23

actual Julia Roberts. Julia

1:26

Roberts, ladies and gentlemen. I

1:28

had the most lovely wee chat with

1:30

them about music in their new movie,

1:32

Leave the World Behind, which you can

1:34

watch right now on Netflix. It's a,

1:37

how would I describe, a deeply

1:39

unsettling psychological thriller. Tells the story

1:42

of a family whose holiday on

1:44

Long Island is interrupted by two

1:46

mysterious strangers bringing news of an

1:48

imminent blackout. Leave the World

1:50

Behind is scored by Mac Quayle, and

1:52

we will begin with his cue, Good

1:54

Omen. It's

2:51

so great to chat to you guys about

2:53

music about this film because there's loads in

2:55

it. It's really great and it's

2:58

kind of from the off. We hear music before we

3:00

see anything. We've got kind of piano that's

3:02

got a kind of sinister nature to it. So it

3:04

sets you in a kind of like, I

3:06

don't know, it's kind of like being guided to a table by a mate

3:08

today in a way. Musically, it's wonderful.

3:10

It makes you edgy before you even know

3:13

it's happening. Exactly. And

3:15

then we have that brilliant shot of

3:17

you by the window, just that pull

3:19

in where you kind of like, I

3:21

fucking hate people. And then boom, we're

3:23

in with this, with Joey Badass. It's

3:56

a good decision. I'm not gonna start. I think it's a

3:58

bad decision. It's a bad decision. I'm

4:01

not even seeing I won't leave anything

4:03

you won't even know who is involved.

4:07

She's not letting me do it cause I was doing it to herself. She's

4:09

doing it no more. I'm letting her

4:11

tell her to move in the mall. I'm letting her

4:13

tell her to move in the mall. I didn't miss

4:15

anything about that was all. But the better we go,

4:17

the closer to them, the better. But now, like they said

4:19

to me, you make it hit me. You make it be hard

4:22

to destroy. They mean the way the

4:24

song is. The proper harm be bitches

4:26

all over my body. So this ain't got eyes

4:28

since I keep a chime. I'm telling you, this is the art

4:30

that I'm trying to paint. This is the art that I'm trying

4:32

to paint. It's such great choices.

4:34

Do you talk, because you're producing on this film

4:36

as well. Do you get in that conversation

4:38

with Sam about music and about... Well, Sam is

4:41

such a music head. Yeah. I

4:43

played it on set. Yeah. See you. Oh yeah,

4:45

yeah. Because the thing is, you know, typically I

4:47

think a lot of filmmakers, and I used to

4:49

do this too, but you know, they wouldn't score

4:51

anything until after they edit the film and they'd

4:53

use temp score and

4:56

then they'd use that as a guide to the composer. I

4:58

just talked to my composer before we even

5:00

started shooting, just like in the script stage,

5:03

about the tone, and he just started writing pieces of

5:05

music. Oh wow. And

5:07

so I'd half score while we were shooting. And

5:10

I remember that shot, that

5:13

drone shot of the car going around the turnabout

5:15

when they were going to the beach. I

5:17

played a piece of music, and that was the music

5:19

that ended up in the movie, like on the set.

6:00

You That

6:31

like I just it helps me get into

6:33

the vibe of the see He

6:36

did this on homecoming as well Yeah, and

6:39

homecoming is a little different because I I just

6:41

I didn't have a composer I was just taking

6:43

cues from other soundtracks And so

6:45

I was literally just testing it all out

6:47

while I would I would shoot a scene

6:50

But it I thought it helped You

6:53

guys yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it just creates

6:55

a mood rather than it being kind

6:57

of like someone's playlist actually being something That's

6:59

connected to the story well because it also

7:01

there's something about I mean, I think we

7:03

have really good clear communication

7:06

But there's something about music

7:08

that just really puts you in

7:10

a particular space and and also

7:13

Let me know in a kind of tempo What

7:17

Sam is looking for? Yeah, which

7:20

is just a deeper understanding of

7:22

of where to how to excavate

7:24

what's happening Well, it's really clever because

7:26

within the first like 10 minutes of the

7:28

film I think there's like four or five

7:31

different needle drops that kind of are almost

7:33

like little Glintzies of the characters they give

7:35

us a little clues to their personalities or

7:37

their state of mind like that great Piece

7:40

where you're going upstairs to kind of look around

7:42

the room at the house in that black

7:44

street Yeah, and it's so great. It's

7:46

kind of like it's like kind of little dream

7:49

sequence Yeah, but then you drop it

7:51

into the car. So it's like oh, it's her

7:53

choice. Yeah, it's what she's choosing to listen to

7:55

It's like well, and then we get

7:57

to the parking lot and There's

8:00

the music version of that song

8:02

playing on the loudspeaker. No,

9:31

you feel all to

9:33

me And

9:36

I never, no,

9:38

never Ain't

9:40

nothing going on with us baby

9:45

No, you forget

9:48

the beat You

9:53

love, you love, you

9:56

love, you love No,

9:58

no, no, no I

10:01

always think of that whole thing as just a

10:03

kind of dream like you kind of said it's

10:05

like a sort of dream like State

10:07

that Amanda's in because she's a she's

10:09

you know about to enjoy or she

10:11

thinks This

10:14

weekend vacation Kevin Bacon to the parking lot

10:24

Did you see it it's in my head

10:32

So great and then I mean

10:34

I love the film and I don't want to talk

10:37

too much specifically about things because We

10:39

will put spoiler at the beginning of this

10:41

but I won't pick not spoil things with

10:43

people sure But there's a brilliant scene with

10:45

you and Marsha Ali where you're in

10:48

his vinyl room And

10:55

this is kind of this fantastic collection of vinyl it's here

10:57

and it's like oh, this is gonna be good And

11:00

it's kind of really I mean that build up

11:02

to that scene is fantastic anyway But what

11:04

were the conversations around what that piece of

11:06

music you'd be and what was the reality

11:09

of that? Oh, here we go involved

11:12

in a conversation This

11:20

is this is the one topic Where

11:24

Sam is my boss? No

11:28

matter what I just was like

11:30

anything anything having to listen to

11:32

the beginning of that In

11:35

front of Mahershala Ali Over

11:37

and over again was so embarrassing Was

11:40

so you couldn't stop laughing? Oh my god

11:43

I was it was it made me

11:45

so uncomfortable thinking about it now And

11:49

the fact that it might become popular again, and

11:51

then you have to listen to it Sam

11:55

in no offense to the

11:57

talented musicians. Please take a different

12:00

But we tried we didn't we do it

12:02

how hard did we Think

12:06

back we I feel like we do out

12:08

a few different titles and we were it

12:10

was clear that that was the best one

12:30

You know Oh

13:30

You know What

13:52

why would you You

14:01

know, a couple of reasons.

14:03

First, I think it needed

14:06

to feel silly without

14:08

being too familiar and too

14:10

poppy. And that song for me was

14:13

popular enough but not something that I think

14:15

was top of mind for people. And

14:18

it wasn't something that was overused in movies

14:20

or television shows because I really wanted

14:22

it to be like their unique experience. And

14:25

it needed to kind of disarm you

14:28

both in a way. See he's

14:30

frustratingly correct. The

14:33

problem, the thing

14:36

with Sam is that whenever you ask

14:39

him a question, his answer always is

14:42

so illuminating that even when you

14:44

want a different answer, it's like,

14:46

okay. Yeah,

14:49

well that makes a lot of sense when you say

14:51

that but it still makes you feel like, come

14:53

on. But you play, I imagine that you

14:55

have to play it on set and stuff because

14:57

you know sometimes it's not. The music's not played

15:00

whilst the scene's been shot. No,

15:02

we played it on set. We played it and

15:04

we played it and we played it. I

15:06

love the dance. I love the warm up to

15:09

this separate dance and towards the

15:11

point that you go, oh it's great. It's

15:14

so good. To me the part where she takes

15:16

off the sweater and kind of recollects herself. Yeah,

15:18

I love that part. I love that each

15:20

of you decided, okay, I'm going to seriously go

15:23

for this dancing right now. I

15:25

see the barrio's falling off on the same way the jumper

15:27

is in a way. Yeah. And

15:29

that's what music can do as well. Music

15:32

in a bottle of wine. That's

15:35

another story. Yeah. But

15:37

work with Max. You've worked with Max, your composer quite

15:39

a few times. How did you guys, do you want

15:41

me to ask how you guys first met and what

15:44

was that? We first met on the

15:46

first season of Mr. Robot. I

15:50

was a huge fan of Cliff Martinez, another

15:52

composer. And

15:54

I was temping a lot on the pilot

15:56

with a lot of Cliff's tracks.

16:00

And then I had a friend

16:02

who was working on one of

16:04

Ryan Murphy's shows, American Horror Story.

16:07

And I loved the music. And then I found out Mac

16:09

was the composer, but not only that he

16:11

had worked under Cliff Martinez. So

16:14

I approached him immediately. And

16:17

yeah, we kind of like hit it off right off the bat.

16:19

And you just send in a script. You send him, do

16:21

you just kind of give him that to kind of... I

16:23

give him a script and I give him a long playlist.

16:26

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, music

16:28

is incredibly important to me. I start

16:30

writing... When I start writing anything,

16:32

I start a playlist at the same time

16:34

because I'm listening to music while I'm writing.

16:37

It's like kind of an injection

16:39

of tone. It just immediately

16:41

starts to put me in a mood or

16:43

a vibe. And that's what I think is

16:45

really important when you're trying to tell a

16:47

story is what is the

16:50

vibe of this? How does it feel? Because

16:52

it's not the story, it's the how you

16:54

tell it. And I think music goes a

16:56

long way in helping you decide what that

16:58

is. With the feel of this movie then,

17:00

what was on that playlist? Because

17:03

you scared the shit out of me. It

17:06

was a lot of weird French

17:08

orchestral stuff that I had never

17:11

heard of before. And I was trying

17:13

to avoid listening to other soundtracks, like

17:16

other scores from

17:18

other movies. I wanted to kind of

17:20

find more unique standalone pieces.

17:22

And I just started going

17:24

down this rabbit hole of just these

17:27

kind of experimental French orchestral music. I

17:29

can't remember the names now but I

17:32

sent it to Mac and I remember

17:34

Mac just responded on text or something.

17:36

Well, this is a little weird. And

17:40

I was like, great. And I'm like, do that.

17:42

Do a little weird. And we're sort

17:44

of off to the races there. There's lovely ways

17:46

that themes come in and out throughout the film

17:48

and stuff but that use of piano and sort

17:50

of stabbing strings has got a real kind of

17:52

like almost Hitchcockian kind of

17:54

vibe to it. Absolutely. In terms of

17:57

the... Yeah, Bernard Herman was... I think

17:59

there's a lot of some pieces. from him on there.

18:01

Michael Small, you know, he did a lot of the

18:04

paranoid thrillers like Parallax View and all

18:06

the presents meant that was in there

18:08

as well. I would

18:10

say because I've worked with Max so

18:13

much, he sort of already knew that's

18:15

where I was headed and that, you

18:17

know, that I kind of considered this

18:19

in the family of paranoid Hitchcockian thriller.

18:22

But I didn't want it to because there's a

18:24

lot of music that's derivative of all of it

18:27

too. So I really wanted to find a way

18:29

to kind of go and

18:31

more experimental like those And

19:49

the choice of the last piece of music

19:52

that you use, it's almost a bit slight

19:54

relief in a way, because it

19:56

is so familiar. Yeah. And it's so comforting

19:58

and kind of like you kind of allow

20:00

yourself to have a little giggle in a

20:03

way. Genius, genius choice.

20:05

Was that always the case? Was there music

20:07

written in the book? Did

20:09

everyone have any musical references in the

20:11

book at all? I don't believe so.

20:14

I mean, none that was in

20:16

the movie. But yeah, I remember

20:19

after reading or writing the script and

20:21

getting to the end, I needed,

20:24

yeah, such a sort of bleak

20:27

journey. Like

20:30

I said, music is just sort of like an

20:32

adrenaline shot of tone. And I just knew that

20:34

if we ended with that cue,

20:37

you can't help but smile. I mean, it's just

20:39

a song that makes you, Yeah, you do the

20:41

claps, you do all that. Yeah, well, that was

20:43

the first thing I said when I called Sam

20:45

when I read it, I was like the end.

20:47

Oh, my God, the end. Great.

20:50

Yeah. Even like you could have just

20:52

had that day and day living. That would be enough.

20:54

Maybe the fact that it's so it's a

20:56

great, great choice. F

22:27

Did you get a playlist for college? Just to talk to

22:29

you, do you know what you were thinking about? You know, I

22:31

mean, I usually have one

22:34

song that somehow I attach

22:37

the person to and listen to it almost,

22:39

it almost becomes like a mantra. That is

22:42

the thing that I listen to over and

22:44

over and over again. Was there specific for

22:46

this one then? I'm assuming it wasn't next

22:49

to quotes. Maybe it was. Yeah,

22:53

maybe you double-bluff it in. Gosh,

22:56

what was it for Amanda? I'd have

22:58

to think. This was a little bit

23:00

ago. I don't remember you telling me.

23:02

I don't remember telling you either. But

23:05

it's great because this is... Is this the hot trick

23:07

of production she's worked on? It is the hot trick.

23:09

This is it. In terms of that, so

23:12

is there a kind of... I don't know, there's an

23:15

unspoken kind of language between you guys? Yeah, I

23:17

was gonna say that. Sam, hire me

23:20

for all the jobs you have and

23:22

I'll be ready. That's

23:24

my unspoken language. I

23:28

love that. I just love that,

23:30

Sam. It's like just listening to you talk

23:32

about the music and Sam creates

23:34

a universe that you

23:36

inhabit with all these stories. I

23:39

mean, Homecoming, it was the same

23:41

way where it was like Planet

23:43

Homecoming. It's just

23:45

all there for the taking.

23:48

And everything, just

23:50

the way you open a door, just everything. And

23:54

so I love that. And

23:56

his mind

23:58

works fortunately. unfortunately compatibly

24:00

with my mind, but in such a

24:02

very different unique way that it's so

24:05

him and it

24:07

just inspires me greatly and I

24:10

get so excited whenever we're

24:12

together. And there's just like a level

24:14

of trust to this point between us.

24:16

I think we, you know, there is

24:18

like a secondhand nature to the way

24:20

we can talk, but I think that

24:22

came from the fact that we can just trust

24:25

each other. Like, yeah, and know that

24:27

like we're watching out for each other

24:29

and we're trying to get the best

24:31

out of each other. When I was

24:33

thinking about coming to charity today as well, the first thing

24:35

kind of wrong through my head was like all

24:38

the iconic roles that you've played that there is, you

24:40

know, you talk about having a tune, a piece of

24:42

music for you to get into that character. For

24:45

us as fans, there's so many pieces

24:47

of music that are attached to so many

24:49

of the characters you played from the outside as

24:51

well, which is kind of such a lovely

24:53

thing. I was interested to whether, you know,

24:56

with Sam, you obviously really involved in the music

24:58

that's been part of it, but is that always

25:00

been the case in terms of you've known the

25:02

music? Because there's been some lovely moments

25:04

within like I was thinking about the Van Morrison

25:06

track, you know, and things like that where they're,

25:08

you know, they are within the scene and stuff

25:10

and things like that. And whether you have, I know,

25:13

moments of kind of attachment with those pieces of

25:15

music. Here we go. Days

25:19

when the rain came. Staying

25:22

in a hollow. Playing

25:26

a new game. Laughing

25:29

at a run of hate. Skipping

25:32

at a jungle. In

25:35

the midst of the cold. A

25:39

heart that's been found found in you. A

25:43

bright girl. Human

25:49

bright girl. Well, it's not

25:51

always what's in the movie, right? Yeah. It

25:54

is nice sometimes when like the Van Morrison,

25:57

that was what we performed to. Yeah. And

26:00

I have lucked out with like

26:02

these really incredible pieces of

26:04

music getting attached to me. Yeah.

26:06

Which I have no business laying

26:08

claim to the song Pretty Woman,

26:11

but I get to now. But

26:13

kiss, but kiss whenever I hear that. But

26:16

you do you. Whenever we

26:18

hear that song, we do you doing

26:20

kiss by Prince. When I couldn't

26:22

sleep last night, Raspberry Beret. I didn't get

26:25

it out of my head. I

26:27

was like, I love it, but you got it. Exactly.

26:30

I couldn't get it out of my

26:33

head. But it's lovely for us that there's you

26:35

have a there almost kind of like a

26:37

musical moment that are connected to those characters. But

26:40

it is interesting as well. I think for people to understand

26:42

that it's not always the case that piece of music

26:44

was played while you were doing it as well. It's

26:46

always the case. Yeah, but when you're singing a dance

26:48

to it, it clearly is. Well,

26:51

in my best friend's wedding, though,

26:53

that those like, obviously, it's being

26:55

sung in like Dermot on the

26:57

boat. Yeah. And the Frank Sinatra

26:59

song or or

27:01

in the restaurant when Rupert

27:03

Everett, the what's that

27:06

song? Then the moment I wake up. The

27:08

moment I wake up. Yeah. In a slightly

27:10

singy speakway. Yeah. Yeah. And then

27:12

in Stepmom as well, we know my high enough

27:14

as well. That's right. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.

27:17

So many. You see so many. Got a list for you. Just

27:21

going back to my quickly, because I wanted to before we run out

27:23

of time, the amount of

27:25

music that's required for for film is very

27:28

different to for a series. You know, and you

27:30

guys working together on Mr. Robot means

27:32

so many episodes to that in terms of as

27:34

a composer, a luxury to have the

27:37

opportunity to create for a character and

27:39

a story narrative over so much

27:41

of a time. Do you like that side of things

27:43

that that's the kind of how much

27:45

there is an opportunity to dive into music?

27:47

Yeah. I mean, we had a lot more

27:49

time on this, a lot less music to

27:51

create. And what

27:54

that did for this was we

27:56

got to actually record a live

27:59

orchestra. we couldn't really

28:01

do that in TVs at the time,

28:03

nor the money. So it was great

28:05

to hear the sort of, you know,

28:07

because we would do the first draft in like, you

28:10

know, the digital version and then to

28:12

then see a live orchestra kind of

28:15

bring this whole other dimension to

28:17

it because it doesn't, it's all

28:19

the same notes, but it feels

28:21

so different. It feels more

28:24

alive. Yeah, exactly. And I would

28:28

say that that for me was like, it's

28:30

like a kid in a candy shop. Yeah.

28:32

Where did you record? We

28:35

recorded somewhere in Burbank. I don't

28:37

remember, but I showed up and

28:40

I remember it was just a ton. Let's talk

28:42

about, I don't know, maybe a hundred. You're orchestra.

28:44

I know. And I don't think anybody knew who

28:46

I was. Like I was trying to get in

28:48

and they were, you know, and then, yeah, they

28:50

didn't see

28:53

a, I wasn't carrying a vital in. So they

28:55

were like, who is this guy? And, um, but

28:58

I love that. I love just being a fly

29:00

on the wall. I just got to sit in

29:02

the room next to, there was a conductor. I

29:04

mean, the whole thing is one of my favorite

29:06

parts of making that day. You know, that Dermot

29:08

Mulroney is, well,

29:11

he's a great, he plays a lot of different

29:13

instruments. He's a fantastic

29:15

cellist and he plays in

29:18

an orchestra for movie

29:21

soundtracks. No idea.

29:23

He should have been on our side. I

29:25

know. He should

29:27

have told me this. Wow. That's

29:29

amazing. Yeah. Do you play instruments?

29:32

Zero. I play the, I'm taking

29:34

piano. Oh, you get

29:36

a little double act, a little jazz double

29:38

act up there. I'd

29:41

watch that. Listen,

29:43

congratulations on this film. It just

29:45

felt so immersive as well with the

29:47

whole experience. And you know, that's done

29:49

all these brilliant collaborators as well. And as

29:51

well, congratulations. Thank you. Thanks so much guys.

32:00

emotion basically and I'm

32:02

so thrilled that we're joined by Paul King,

32:04

Neil Hannon. So Paul is the writer-director,

32:07

Neil Hannon you will know from the

32:09

Divine Comedy. He is the lyricist and

32:11

musician on the film and we're also

32:14

joined by Joby Talbot who's the composer

32:16

who we've talked about on this podcast

32:18

numerous times with Garth Jennings because he's

32:21

behind the Sing Movies and the other

32:23

films that Garth has worked on too.

32:26

Talking one part with Paul King, Neil

32:28

Hannon and Joby Talbot I've very much

32:31

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Event ends 1-224.