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1:00

hi again. It's been only a few days

1:02

since we last spoke here on my, I

1:04

was going to say weekly podcast sound tracking,

1:07

but at the minute we're giving you an

1:09

episode pretty much every third day. Thus

1:11

is the way that there are so many great things

1:14

to talk about at the minute. I hope you're enjoying

1:16

the episodes. It'd be really nice if you did feel

1:18

like giving us, I don't know, your

1:20

thoughts, your feedback, guest suggestions, all

1:22

that kind of stuff. Please

1:24

do get in touch with us. People at Edith

1:26

bowman.com is our email

1:28

address if you want to get in touch about anything. So

1:30

we'd love to hear from you with regards to, I don't

1:32

know whether you've watched some of the films that we've talked

1:34

about over the last couple of weeks. Maybe

1:36

you went to the cinema to watch Jodie's film,

1:38

The End We Start From. Maybe

1:41

you've seen The Boys in the Boat,

1:43

Priscilla, The Holdovers, or maybe over the

1:45

weekend you watched The Kitchen with today's

1:48

guest. The last time

1:50

we had today's guest on the podcast,

1:52

he was up for an EE BAFTA

1:54

Rising Star Award, which he duly won.

1:56

Course he did. How far

1:59

Daniel Kaluuya has been. has come since

2:01

then, although to be fair, he was

2:03

pretty much a superstar by that

2:05

point already. Joining me today though

2:07

to discuss his debut as a

2:09

writer-director on The Kitchen. Music

2:12

for the film is provided by Labyrinth

2:14

and Alex Baranofsky to whom we owe

2:17

huge gratitude for providing

2:19

us with as yet unreleased cues.

2:21

Of a Sunday morning, Alex you

2:23

absolute legend, when other

2:25

people would normally be reading the papers and

2:28

eating croissants, we can't thank you enough Alex.

2:30

I will begin with one of their cues,

2:32

can I stay? What's

3:08

going on? Yeah! How you

3:11

doing mate? I'm alright. I'm

3:13

good, how are you? I'm really

3:15

good, I'm so glad that I get to

3:17

talk to you about your film that you've

3:20

written and directed. I felt so chuffed I

3:22

got to see it at the Close the

3:24

Night London Film Festival and it

3:26

felt so right, it felt just the perfect

3:28

launch pad for this next chapter

3:30

for you as a storyteller. I know we

3:32

don't know each other that well but I

3:35

was so proud of you kind of just

3:37

going, yes Daniel, it was brilliant. Oh, I

3:39

appreciate it. It's so good to have you

3:41

there, I remember seeing you often. Oh yeah,

3:43

it's like that. How does it feel though?

3:45

This has been, from what I've read and stuff,

3:47

this has been, this is a story and a

3:49

kind of thing you've had kind of in you for a

3:51

long time finally it's, you know,

3:54

people are getting the chance to see it. How

3:56

does that kind of feel, this sort of different

3:58

unleashing of a project for you? I'm really

4:00

looking forward to letting go. Do you know what I

4:02

mean? And like allow others to take it as their

4:04

own and take it for whatever they

4:07

want. I give, we, me and Kibwe, co-direct

4:09

together all that we could to

4:11

this and like, we're just like, it's

4:13

done. You know what I mean? It's like, it's kind of like, I'm a bit

4:15

like, kind of like, I thought it'd be like,

4:17

oh, but it's just peace. You know what I mean?

4:19

It's a little bit of peace. Yeah. Where

4:21

did the journey start then for you with this? When

4:24

did the idea start? And what was that journey for

4:26

you in terms of kind of writing

4:28

it and making those decisions that you were

4:30

going to take on those roles throughout the

4:32

project? So the journey started at like, I had the

4:34

idea in a barbershop. This guy was talking about smash, he grabs

4:36

a million pounds in a minute. And I was like, I want

4:38

to watch that film. I was just like, I want to watch that.

4:41

Then I did some more research, found out that we're getting paid 200

4:43

pounds to do it. I was like, ooh, Rob's

4:45

a million pounds from one, 200 pounds. What's

4:48

going on there? And then so then I was like,

4:50

all right, cool. Then I found it so interesting about,

4:53

I think he said a lot about London, said a

4:55

lot about class, said a lot about inequalities, said a

4:57

lot about desperation. You're risking freedom

4:59

and death for 200 pounds.

5:02

And so yeah, we just dug it, dug it more.

5:04

Then I did this film called Jonah, short film called

5:06

Jonah with Kibwe. Pitched it to him there. And

5:08

he was like, oh yeah, nice. It sounds interesting. And

5:11

then a lot of time went by and he was

5:13

like, he came back to

5:15

me about it. And then me,

5:17

Kibwe and the producer, I

5:19

was just saying to them, listen, we can't do this whole,

5:22

because I wrote Skins of 1819. And

5:24

I was doing all these, like everyone wanted to meet me

5:26

because I was writing this young writer, all out doing this

5:28

thing. And they wanted me to write young people. And

5:31

I was just taking loads of coffees. I was just

5:33

drinking loads of coffees, I was doing water. And I

5:35

wasn't doing anything. I wasn't writing anything. I was like,

5:37

this is bullshit. Like, what's going on? Like,

5:39

I want to make stuff. I come from

5:41

a stock and cloth where we just make

5:43

things. We don't be like, so I was still making YouTube

5:45

sketches. I just said to them guys, I was like, yo,

5:48

let's just make something. So we put 200 pound each

5:50

and shot in the barbershop. I heard the idea. It

5:52

was basically reservoir books in the barbershop. And

5:54

then yeah, and we did a taste on and we went to Film

5:56

Force. It is what we wanted to make. And they saw the vision,

5:58

they got it. And then. kind of started

6:00

from there, but it was like a lot of stages,

6:03

but a lot a lot's happened over time. It's the

6:05

way I positioned and I've had to go like

6:07

this and like my career, I was

6:09

writing it solely, like and then my career

6:12

went crazy. So then Joe Murtagh, the co-writer

6:14

came on board to do a pass to

6:16

make sure things were moving whilst my

6:19

life was changing. And then

6:21

I had to come back on board in

6:23

the pandemic and do more work.

6:25

It's basically just been like a collective

6:28

between me and Cuba. We've both been doing it.

6:30

It's been working in a way in a sense

6:32

that like, when I come

6:34

up, it was just like everyone does all the jobs. It

6:37

doesn't matter what your role is. But then

6:39

when you come in the superhero version, this

6:41

is what the positions are in terms of

6:44

the influence on the project. I love

6:46

Joe's work on A Car With Horses. I

6:48

thought that was an extraordinary film and a

6:50

brilliant piece of work in terms of how

6:53

he writes people. Good set of eyes to

6:55

have as a someone to come. Yeah,

6:57

he taps into humanity, which is really

7:00

important and supposedly just characters. What

7:03

kind of director are you? Because you've worked with

7:05

some brilliant ones. I guess

7:07

it's that thing of kind of watching and

7:09

I imagine you're that person where, because you

7:11

are so multifaceted, you say you started writing

7:13

at a young age and making and it's

7:15

about working with these amazing, whether it be

7:18

your Danilo Nerves or Jordans and stuff, in

7:20

terms of watching how they do things and

7:22

going, that's the way I want to do it or that's

7:24

the way I don't want to do it. Have you been taking

7:26

things on board as you've been on this journey as

7:28

well, in terms of coming to this point? Yeah, I

7:30

think biosmosis. I think I'll just take stuff

7:32

in and if I've been changed by notes

7:35

and I've been changed by conversations or

7:37

I've seen someone change someone's performance, a

7:40

lot of it is how you delegate, how

7:42

you communicate. I think I've been inspired

7:44

by my whole career. It

7:46

would be like Steve Quinn, it would

7:49

be like Ryan Coogler, it would be

7:51

Matt Lipsey who did Cycleville. I've been

7:53

inspired by so many great directors. I

7:55

mean it's Adam Smith who directed the

7:57

first thing that I ever wrote for

8:00

screen, which was that this skin, it

8:02

was like a skin short. So

8:04

like, the older guys would write like

8:06

the main series and then the young people

8:08

would write like the internet shorts. So

8:11

I wrote this one about Jowl's brother in

8:13

series one. Now remember I was at sixth form,

8:15

like when it was getting shot, I was like,

8:17

right, I mean, come on, it's getting shot in

8:19

Bristol, like this is nuts. And then by the

8:21

way Adam works, I was just really inspired by

8:23

him, you know, I mean, and Paul Gader, I

8:25

was on it as well. So there was a

8:28

lot of people that I've been, come across on

8:30

my journey, that I've really, the knee like that

8:32

I've really been really just going, oh yeah, Jordan

8:34

gave me some wise words, like the

8:36

Sundance Screenwriter's Lab a month before I shot Get

8:38

Out. So it's been a it's

8:41

been a long journey. And but my style,

8:43

I'm still figuring it out. But I do,

8:45

I do like communicating. I do like, but

8:47

I like, I trust everyone. It's a collaboration.

8:49

I want them to feel like

8:51

they've owned it. And they've kind of, they put

8:53

their point of view. Do you trust their intellect,

8:56

trust their creativity, trust their

8:58

know-how and their execution.

9:01

And so they say, for example, one of

9:03

the departments, like one of the actors, you do it

9:05

to take a certain kind of way. And the last

9:07

take, what would you think? Go on and do what

9:10

you think. Tell me that you most of the time

9:12

would use that body and that shape because they feel

9:14

the same with the VFX department. You want what you

9:16

want, but at the end of the day, you're the

9:18

expert. So what do you think? And it's

9:20

like, come, let's have a dialogue. Like this is

9:22

how we want to feel like Elephant and Castle Shopping Center. But

9:25

how do we execute that? How do we make that cinematic?

9:27

How do you mean it's like, I thought

9:29

that's what's been really exciting, this genuine collaboration is

9:32

that's what I fell in love with this game.

9:34

The film was brilliant. I loved

9:36

so much about it. I loved the performances

9:39

are brilliant, you know, and I feel like you've

9:41

given Kane an opportunity to kind of really blow

9:43

us away in terms of, I mean, he's brilliant

9:45

in Top Boy, but this is something different in

9:47

terms of this. This is a different

9:49

ask of him. And I just feel like

9:51

he was absolutely kind of rose to the

9:53

challenge that you gave him and little Jedi

9:55

as well as Benji. I mean, bloody hell,

9:58

what a find. He's phenomenal, literally brilliant. breaks

10:00

your heart. And the production

10:02

design on it, the sound, the

10:04

score and the needle drop, I mean all of

10:06

it. It's just you're immersed in the world kind

10:08

of completely. And I love

10:10

that whole, the opening cue

10:12

that you've got and the idea

10:15

that as we come into the film and

10:17

you've got those kind of few setups, you've

10:19

got Cade and that environment and then the

10:23

raids kind of going on as well. So you're getting

10:25

an idea of the landscape of this

10:27

world that we're about to enter. And it's

10:29

just, it's amazing in terms of like how

10:31

you've created this whole

10:33

world, but it's familiar, but it's not in

10:35

a way. There are no questions in

10:37

what I just said. That was just me spouting.

10:40

Yeah, let's not. I'm listening in like, it's weird

10:42

because now what's happening is I'm getting

10:44

like really smart people having their

10:46

opinion. I'm like, I find out more because

10:49

a lot of times you're just going off instincts and you're doing what

10:51

you're doing and then you're like, oh yeah, no, it's that. It's that.

10:53

That's what we was aiming for. We wanted to

10:56

take people to another place, but feel like

10:59

you know this place. We

11:01

wanted people to fall in love with the kitchen. Yeah.

11:03

You want to be there. You want to help save it. That's

11:06

the thing. It's such a car mixer

11:08

in the film. I've got to mention

11:10

Ian Wright as well. For my husband's

11:12

birthday at Christmas, my 10 year old,

11:14

we spent weeks online trying

11:16

to get a signed Ian Wright shirt

11:19

for Tom for Christmas. And

11:21

we managed to get one. This thing arrived.

11:23

We've not got walls big enough to put

11:25

this thing on it. It came

11:27

like framed with like loads of

11:30

old pictures of right in the side shirt

11:32

and stuff. And it was absolutely brilliant. And

11:34

I'm so excited for Tom to see the

11:36

films. He's such a big gunner. He's brilliant

11:38

in it. And the character that he plays

11:40

though as well. Will you write in with

11:42

people in mind for this, both kind of

11:44

like Kane and Ian and stuff as well?

11:46

How did that kind of come about with

11:48

those two particular choices? It just

11:50

wasn't, it wasn't, we didn't write in mind, but

11:53

they did bring a lot to it. They're like,

11:55

they're just interesting people. And we

11:57

wanted to make the most of that. very

12:00

much a firm believer like, all right, so

12:02

I go, all right, cool, that's the cut of the suit,

12:04

but we need to tailor it to you. So there's like,

12:06

in order for it to really feel like, you

12:09

know, you're in it, and you look like you walk around,

12:11

that's a suit, that's your suit. So then

12:13

that's what's done this way, this is your character. Yeah,

12:15

this is a sketch, bring your bringing

12:17

it to life. And so a lot

12:19

of it, a lot of conversation with Kane, you know,

12:21

me and a lot of back and forth. I said,

12:23

I'll hear it with a line doesn't make sense to

12:25

the human, change it. I'm from an improv background. So

12:27

I'm not really that precious, like whatever's

12:29

best. And same with Ian, it's like,

12:32

kind of like, he'd never acted before. So he's

12:34

like, he went up, but

12:36

he has such an emotion to him. He's such

12:38

a heart to him, such a humanity to him.

12:41

And we was actually surprised at how much we got, you know,

12:43

and saying and how much he was able to go there. But

12:45

he was remembering how much self-honour to

12:47

change it was, remembering how many people have moved

12:50

from his area, how many people left out with the breakdown

12:52

in the community. He did really tap into

12:54

that, in order to kind of portray certain

12:56

moments of Lord Kitchener. But also he was the life

12:58

of the kitchen. He was he was bringing the life

13:00

to he's bringing the joy in it. And I mean,

13:03

I can't say what happens, but

13:05

like it's a yeah, he has

13:07

a massive presence. But he always

13:09

had a massive presence. You just have to be a great footballer.

13:12

I in my head, I have this romantic notion

13:14

that whilst you're filming it, he's actually like DJing,

13:16

you know, in between takes and stuff. And he's

13:18

kind of like, he's got this whole

13:20

vibe going and stuff. No, no, no, we did

13:23

that. I think that was kind of a take. So I

13:25

was like, just keep going. Yeah. And I would play this.

13:27

And then at once I was it was the song. I

13:29

think the song that was used. No, no, it was Christopher

13:31

Lady and Red. And I just played that over the thing.

13:33

And he was like, yeah, a lot of people go. Yeah,

13:35

it was like Christopher Lady and Red. I'm going crazy for

13:37

it. It was funny. How did you

13:40

navigate that, though, in terms of did you get loads of

13:42

stuff cleared in advance? Or 1000 percent

13:44

didn't get a lot of stuff. What we did

13:46

is basically, we were like, this is what

13:49

we want to see and what would

13:51

work out. But we just knew the vibe. We knew what

13:53

the vibe is. For me, it had to feel I think

13:56

music is such a big thing in London. Like

13:59

and it's so eclectic, so

14:02

many genres, even in like

14:04

an underground club, there's going to be so

14:07

many genres within that underground club. I just

14:09

wanted to express that the

14:11

only song that definitely had to be there was Candy,

14:13

Cammian Candy. That's the one that was definitely locked in

14:15

from the beginning, but that was connected to the dance.

14:18

But even that was connected to how

14:20

do you show, cinematically show the community, the

14:22

kitchen as together. And for me, it's when

14:24

you do candy. You know what I mean?

14:26

It's like at a wedding or at

14:28

the end of a club, when a DJ

14:30

wants to kick you out, like everyone does

14:33

that dance. It's triggering. And

14:36

I think then people then fall in love with it, but

14:38

also you have this little boy who wants something in the

14:40

middle of it. Do you know what

14:42

I'm saying? That's why it transforms and evolves into something.

14:45

Because it's like, and then the lyrics are

14:47

more poignant. And you actually listen to

14:49

it. Even when you, well, it all tastes

14:51

like you mean he wants him,

14:54

but he doesn't think that he

14:57

wants him back. But then this

14:59

is happening within this community. So

15:02

it's like the dance is

15:04

reflective of what the dance that is the

15:06

invention is. oh

15:29

oh it

15:53

is really nice because like that kind of piece

15:55

of music because it's kind of personal connection it's

15:57

got clearly to you but to so many people

15:59

is that it makes it timeless,

16:02

you know, because it transcends generations. It's

16:05

not one generation's soul. No, no,

16:07

no, no, no. In this process,

16:09

is what I really had to learn

16:11

as a writer and a storyteller is

16:13

like how to not lean on

16:15

like recent cultural references

16:17

in order to make timeless work.

16:20

I mean, sometimes like you can just go, oh, like

16:22

I'm going to say a joke about this and it

16:24

will trigger people, but in 10 years time, it won't.

16:26

You know what I mean? And I've seen that in

16:28

a lot of films. Oh, I don't understand what they're

16:30

saying. It was even though I have the information, if

16:32

I go on a Wikipedia page, I had to live

16:34

in context to understand what they're talking about, to really

16:36

understand the dynamic of the joke. And

16:38

I didn't want that for this. I wanted that, especially

16:41

now we're doing in the near future, not now. I

16:43

wanted it to be timeless to a level.

16:45

And it's like what what what British features,

16:48

what London features are timeless. I

16:50

mean, it does really think about that and

16:52

really make those decisions from that that place,

16:54

which took a while. And it was a

16:56

tough task, but I feel like

16:59

the stuff that is in it is what

17:01

makes people feel things. When I was

17:03

kind of watching and then my kind of crap notes of

17:05

trying and like write things down as I was kind of

17:07

watching and stuff as well. And there's

17:09

the Billy McLean Walkaway track. The

17:12

lamp scene is I wrote down badly,

17:14

but I love that. I love that

17:16

whole moment of their relationship

17:18

with that song, you know, in terms of they're in

17:21

the department and they're in the barbershop and stuff and

17:23

all that kind of stuff. And it's just it's

17:25

beautifully used. You know, this one needle

17:27

drop across different scenes. It's not

17:30

just used in one kind of context. We kind of

17:32

were placed there, were taken out, were brought back. And

17:34

it's just it's almost a beautiful

17:36

companion to the narrative and the emotion that

17:38

these characters are going to. Yeah, I appreciate

17:41

that. Nice. It's David's stories

17:43

about like men who can't

17:45

talk. And so a lot of

17:47

times they speak through other languages. And music's

17:49

a big language that people speak through, men

17:51

speak through. And so the

17:54

lyrics of it and the mood of the sweetness of

17:56

it is a sweetness that is

17:59

unable to experience. And he hasn't

18:01

really experienced, he hasn't really received, so he's not

18:03

able to give it. But

18:05

it's around and he wants to go towards it. So that's what it

18:07

kind of wants to represent. Whenever we tried anything

18:09

else, it was like, this is it. Like this is

18:11

this is that song. And then also the bit of

18:13

sweetness is a bit. Yeah, that to many

18:15

of the of it is sweet, but the lyrics are not.

18:18

Yeah, yeah. That kind of thing.

18:20

Well, I come it was very, very

18:23

much wanting to reflect his psyche, but

18:25

also kind of show his dissent of

18:27

like his conflict. I don't

18:29

want connection. I don't want community. I don't

18:31

want family. But here I am like, I

18:33

need this. Yes, it

18:35

makes it even more kind of like you're

18:38

like, no, when you see what happened, where

18:40

he goes next, you're like, what are you

18:42

doing? You're so broken as a as a

18:44

viewer because you see him, you

18:47

see him drop his guard and you see him

18:49

smile and laugh with this little boy in a

18:51

way that we've never seen him. You

18:53

know what I mean? Like lose those kind of

18:56

barriers that he's constantly got up for just those

18:58

couple of moments when they're laughing about the lamp

19:00

and it's kind of like, oh, and then it's

19:02

like, oh, it's heartbreaking. Librance

20:18

and Alex then in terms of working on

20:21

score. I mean, Librance works in terms of,

20:23

you know, I love playing, when I was

20:25

on Radio 1 playing Librance when he first

20:27

came through and then out DJing and stuff

20:29

like that. I'm just so impressed by what

20:31

he's doing with his music on screen,

20:34

whether it be, you know, I love that Malcolm

20:36

and Marie film that he did and Euphoria as

20:38

well. I thought they were fantastic. But

20:40

with this as well, it's just so

20:44

kind of subtle but really

20:46

powerful. There's a way he says, do you want

20:48

to ride or not? The little voice

20:50

and the cue and the piece of score

20:52

that's in that bit. It's really tender and

20:55

kind and it's almost like being

20:57

sat next to somebody watching the film and

20:59

then kind of go, oh, did you see

21:01

that? Or it's really kind of physically effective,

21:04

I think, the score in the film. I've

21:06

got so much salt in. Someone I've been a fan

21:08

of for a very, very long time since like Pass

21:10

Out Days. I just knew that like, what

21:12

is going on here? Like he's on another. He sounds like what

21:15

is going on. And

21:17

when I saw him doing Euphoria, I was like, oh, I

21:20

think he's Andrew Lloyd Webber personally. That's just my

21:22

opinion. But like, I just

21:24

think that he has a soul to

21:26

him and has a depth to him

21:29

that he's able to just communicate. I

21:31

remember when he watched the film

21:33

one time, Kade Meyers, he watched the film. He's a

21:35

hard man to track down level. He

21:37

came out and then he just sent me a song

21:39

like the next morning. Just like,

21:41

yeah, this time made me feel. And it was so

21:44

accurate, so poignant. It was

21:46

a cut and it was like, it's what I

21:48

feel. And it was so like, kind of like,

21:50

oh, wow, he really tapped into the emotion. And

21:52

then once I came into the edit and

21:55

he just started playing and he's like playing.

21:57

So a lot of the piano

21:59

stuff was just. is just him freestyling. It's

22:02

just him freestyling to what he's seeing

22:05

and a lot of stuff we just use that on edited.

22:07

The end of the film is an

22:09

unedited letter bribbed to freestyle, just him just

22:11

going off on one and it

22:13

was just because it just felt like so

22:16

raw and so honest,

22:18

so like rough and

22:22

it was just that kind of like but in this moment when

22:24

the world's like kind of going crazy

22:26

around them but they're having this moment and

22:29

it was just so he just is able to communicate

22:31

the the inner realities of

22:34

the characters just effortlessly. So

23:18

yeah and a lot of even the staples theme

23:21

and Alex did amazing work on that

23:23

as well like making that

23:25

like big because I just wanted to be big.

23:27

I always tell them like Star Wars bro but

23:29

I realized that 12 year old if you go

23:31

into another estate that's got this legend then it's

23:33

got this kind of like name

23:36

to it is another world to them. It's like oh

23:38

my god I'm about to play with those big figures

23:59

you I

25:13

like that if you want to really be

25:15

true to what was happening within Benji's mind,

25:18

that's what it feels like. It feels like,

25:20

but also I feel like it was really

25:22

important in this film to show the tenderness

25:25

and have black characters

25:27

as gentle. I feel

25:29

like the scene when Benji goes into

25:32

the gang's lair for the first time and

25:34

is sleeping, it's like a lullaby. What

25:37

I really wanted was basically going, he's an

25:39

orphan. And not only that, all

25:41

these kids have no one. There's a danger, there's

25:43

an anxiety to it, but there's a kind of

25:45

like a tenderness to it. There's

25:47

a gentleness to it. Basically this older guy saying, yo,

25:49

I help you out and you're going to say yes because

25:52

you have nowhere else to go. And the

25:54

harshness of that and having to go, yo, he's

25:56

going on his journey because he misses his mum and he can't stay

25:58

in that place where his mum is. is because

26:01

he reminds him too much and he doesn't even,

26:03

he's not even aware of that. He just runs.

26:05

For me, Labyrinth and Alex really got across the

26:07

complexities and the depth and the

26:09

nuances of what the characters were

26:12

going through, which I feel like have been flattened

26:14

in other narratives about this world. I

27:00

don't know.

27:17

Like you're talking about that piano and him just

27:19

reacting to stuff. I don't know. Have you seen

27:21

American Symphony, the John Batiste film? No, I haven't

27:23

yet. Oh my God, it's extraordinary. And it's one

27:26

of the things in that documentary is, you know,

27:28

he's writing this symphony that

27:31

he's got to play at Carnegie Hall. It's

27:33

his American Symphony. As this is happening,

27:35

his wife is going through

27:37

her second experience of cancer. It's

27:39

crazy how these two things are

27:41

running parallel. He talks about, he

27:43

can't really describe how he writes.

27:46

It just kind of comes out of him. Like he

27:48

reacts to an emotion or a feeling and you see

27:51

him, there's a moment where he's filmed and it's kind

27:53

of like it's just coming out of him and it

27:55

sounds so similar to how labyrinth

27:57

works and how that reaction. I

28:00

think me and him, I think we

28:02

understand that these ideas aren't ours. We're

28:05

listening to a radio station and we're

28:08

just basically bringing it to here. You hear it

28:10

and say, all right, cool, but you're bringing it

28:12

there. It's not how can you generate it? It

28:14

doesn't even matter. It exists. Some people can see

28:16

things and some people can't because there's no experience

28:19

in what they've learned across life.

28:21

And that labyrinth has that musically.

28:24

He just knows how to download and

28:27

just kind of. And

28:30

can hear the music that is happening

28:33

in a conversation. We're chilling. He just hears the

28:36

music that's happening. It's a really great

28:38

experience. Where did you find

28:41

Jada? Because I'm so excited

28:43

to watch him and see where he goes

28:45

and what he does. Because

28:47

his presence on screen kind

28:50

of stops you from breathing sometimes. You realize

28:53

you've not taken a breath. This is

28:55

his first acting role. His aunt

28:57

saw the ad for the audition,

29:00

told him to go on the tape. He went on tape and then

29:02

out of all the kids, he just had it. He just had it.

29:05

He's charismatic. He's

29:07

cheeky. He's funny. He's got it.

29:09

But also what surprised us all to say is

29:11

his emotional depth, how much soul he has to

29:13

him. And also even craft words, how

29:16

he was able to tap into his friend's pain.

29:19

His friends lost his mum and transferred

29:21

that into the character. It's really

29:23

complex stuff that he's doing at a very young

29:25

age. And yeah, he just had an audition and

29:28

he just got good ideas as well. He's like,

29:30

there's certain scenes. There was a scene I wrote

29:32

and he had an opinion. I was like, he

29:34

said, I've heard in your role, you're right.

29:38

I mean, it's like, did he really change

29:40

the scene? He's sharp and

29:42

he's on it. He's real. Everything

29:44

he's, when everything's happening is real. And it's

29:46

just, it was a joy to watch him

29:48

grow as well on set as well. Did

29:50

you try and kind of keep him in

29:52

pain, sort of a part of it or in

29:54

terms of that, that relationship, you

29:57

know, it's almost kind of like, I don't know, I've

29:59

been too familiar. with each other whilst you were

30:01

shooting and stuff to kind of keep that

30:03

sort of two way thing that's constantly shifting

30:05

throughout the film. I think Kane kept his distance

30:07

at the beginning. Kane kept his

30:09

distance because he wanted it. But it's like, luckily

30:12

it happened, like the film kind of like, the

30:14

more they got to know each other, the more

30:16

we did the latest scene. So it was actually

30:18

happening organically, that they were

30:20

able to build his bond and also a

30:23

bit like Jada got more relaxed because again,

30:25

he's like on set, everyone's there, he's filming,

30:27

he's like. So he was able

30:29

to kind of relax with them, but they

30:31

did a bonding session at the

30:34

beginning to shoot to get to know each

30:36

other. But it was kind of good at the beginning, like

30:38

they just came as well as

30:40

he's avoided. It was good for

30:42

the beginning that he didn't really engage with

30:44

Jada as much. But yeah, they

30:46

grew up closer to the film. Was it a

30:48

part of directiveness that you enjoyed the most? Edit,

30:51

edit is fun. Edit is fun. Edit is

30:53

fun. Because you're kind of like, every

30:55

day you have a problem or

30:57

a couple problems or all different. And then you're

30:59

like, all right, cool. How do we fix this?

31:02

And you're just with a team of people every

31:05

day showing up, like

31:07

all these are problems, all right, cool. And

31:10

then you get closer and you're getting closer and

31:12

you're getting closer, just continuous, continuous, just getting a

31:14

routine and a pattern and

31:17

just trying to solve things

31:19

like how we're going to do this, how we do that, how do

31:21

we get this across and also just the conversations that you're having

31:23

in those spaces. It's really concentrated,

31:25

it's like pure, pure, pure, pure

31:28

storytelling. And then the Christian Sandino

31:30

Taylor did an amazing job

31:32

on this. He's like, he's ideas and what

31:34

he gave to the film is I'm

31:37

forever grateful to him and

31:39

Amy Bay, the story editor who did

31:41

amazing as well and kind of

31:44

really shaping scenes and going

31:46

back and forth and doing work. He kind of was like, really,

31:48

really, really in it. He was in it.

31:51

But I've just enjoyed that part of it. Have

31:53

you got the next one lined up ready? Next

31:56

what? The

32:01

next film, the next director. I'll let

32:04

this come out, man. I'm knackered.

32:06

You've been up everywhere though. I've

32:09

always got ideas. I've got

32:11

things sitting on my laptop. But for me,

32:13

it was really important to finish this. You know what

32:15

I'm saying? And then boom, get it done. And then

32:17

like, yeah, maybe. But I've always been like, what is

32:20

the idea want from me? Could be want

32:22

me to act in it. Could be want me just to write in

32:24

it. Could be want to direct. I don't like it's whatever. Yeah,

32:26

I'm not really. It's about how do I get

32:29

something that doesn't exist to exist and

32:31

who are the people that you want to build that with? That's

32:33

really it. Like, I don't really think

32:35

of it in like strategy terms. I

32:37

mean, I'm probably in denial about how

32:40

like being a director. I've

32:42

had too many opinions on set, to be honest, when I'm

32:44

at. So like it was always

32:46

a natural, it's a natural set. Well,

32:50

I'm at right now. So but yeah, no,

32:52

I don't have an excellent plan. I've got ideas, but

32:54

we'll see how this goes out. I also just before

32:56

we run it, time, bloody love, Hobie

32:58

and Spider-Man as well across Spider-Verse and

33:00

Beyond Next as well. Top workmate. So

33:03

great. Yeah, it's great.

33:05

Bonkers how they do that. You're like, how how

33:08

did he do that? It's just not. But

33:10

it's so entertaining. It was so you know,

33:12

it is like it's really helped me because like, I watched

33:14

the cut of it while I was in

33:17

the area for kitchen. And it was so

33:19

inspiring because it wasn't finished. It

33:21

wasn't finished. It was like really think it really like

33:23

some during a bit scratched and this is any other

33:25

than I was like, oh, wow. I just understand their

33:28

process and seeing it bear. And

33:30

then like two weeks later, they showed me another

33:32

cut and they moved so far. And I'm like,

33:34

these guys, it was just so inspiring to

33:36

watch them work. Kemp, Phil,

33:39

Chris, all the whole team. And

33:41

just really inspired me to like

33:44

create and and help them to

33:46

learn more. It's it's

33:48

such a unique and brilliant piece. We

33:50

watch it over and over again.

33:53

And our house is brilliant. Listen, Daniel,

33:55

it's so great to chat to you.

33:57

And huge congratulations again. It's

33:59

you've made. something really really brilliant and

34:01

it's really connected as well. It's

34:04

lovely as well hearing you get the chance to talk to

34:06

you about the collaboration as well with those, you

34:08

know, with the music side of it as well.

34:10

So thanks for your time mate and congratulations. Appreciate

34:13

that Edith man. Appreciate you watching and appreciate

34:15

you. Thanks

35:30

to Daniel for taking the time to

35:32

talk to you about the music in

35:34

his first feature film as

35:44

a writer and director and you

35:46

can watch the kitchen on Netflix

35:48

right now and it goes without saying it's something

35:50

well worth doing. Thanks once again to Alex for

35:52

helping us out with the music. We will be

35:55

sure to get him on the podcast very very

35:57

soon because he is a man and

35:59

hide a man. Edith bowman.com

36:01

is the place to go

36:03

if you want to hear

36:05

Daniel's previous appearance on the

36:07

podcast which also featured, get

36:09

this, Florence Pugh, Timothy Chalamet,

36:11

Tessa Thompson and Joshua Connor.

36:14

Be still my beating heart. The most

36:16

wonderful collection of talent who have gone

36:18

on to enormous and brilliant

36:20

and inspiring things. Follow us

36:23

on socials we are at SoundtrackingUK and

36:25

please have a look at our YouTube

36:27

channel, Soundtracking Extra and subscribe if you

36:29

get a chance. We'll be putting Daniel

36:31

up there, we've got some exclusives as

36:34

well from Mia McKenna

36:36

Bruce, we've got the producer and

36:38

director of the new Netflix show,

36:40

Griselda, going up there this week

36:43

and then next up joining us

36:45

to discuss his debut feature film

36:47

is director Jamie Childs along with

36:50

his composer James Drummond. The film's

36:52

called Jackdaw, it's set in

36:54

the north east of England, it's got

36:56

a great cast including Jenna Coleman, Tommy

36:59

Torgos, Oliver Jackson Cohen

37:02

and it is out in cinemas this

37:05

coming Friday the 26th of

37:07

January. So ahead of Jamie and

37:10

James joining us, check out the

37:12

film when it comes out on Friday in

37:14

cinemas and we will be dropping a new

37:16

episode of the podcast this coming Friday. The

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