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Morning good afternoon good evening, Keep

0:32

day am just welcome wherever you

0:34

are listening or whatever time of

0:36

day as just thank you. I

0:38

really appreciate you taking the time

0:40

to listen to my little podcast

0:42

that comes out every week, sometimes

0:44

twice a week. That. Has a

0:47

conversation about film and music

0:49

at when Ben and I

0:51

launched this podcast Back and

0:53

Twenty Sixteen. Or we want to

0:55

do was to have a weekly conversation

0:57

about the beautiful relationship between music and

0:59

film. And obviously there was a wish

1:01

list of people that have been instrumental

1:03

in both our loves and passions for

1:05

film and music in that relationship. And

1:07

I think one of the names that

1:10

we had on that list way back

1:12

at the start was Martin Scorsese, and

1:14

along the way we talked about his

1:16

work. Extensively we've had the joy

1:18

of having his long time editor

1:20

down with Skyn make our on

1:22

the podcast and. Today. We

1:25

finally caught up with our White Whale

1:27

on Soundtrack in one of our White

1:29

Wales and Soundtrack in. As.

1:31

After literally years and weeks

1:34

of hiding his team. Finally

1:36

managed to get an opportunity to sit

1:38

down with the one and only Martin

1:40

Scorsese. Martin. Joined me

1:43

to discuss the exception oh the

1:45

beautiful, the powerful Keller's of the

1:47

foreign in which the available right

1:49

now on Apple Tv. though we

1:52

ended up covered in so much

1:54

more than that from taxi driver

1:56

to Casino Rage and Build the

1:58

Last Waltz. the The film was

2:00

scored by Martin's dear, dear

2:02

friend and collaborator, the late

2:05

Robbie Robertson and we'll begin with

2:07

his cue, Tribal Council. I'm

3:07

going to talk

3:13

music if that's

3:18

OK. Sure, and before we talk about Killers

3:20

of the Thormane, I hope you don't mind if

3:23

we go back a little while first to, I

3:26

heard you tell a story about when you

3:28

were growing up and you were in your

3:30

apartment and music was almost circling

3:33

you in a way in terms of coming

3:35

in the windows from other apartments that would

3:37

be within your apartment. Do you think it's

3:39

fair to say that from that point music

3:41

had a kind of a connection with your

3:43

imagination? Well, there's no doubt. I

3:46

mean, even before that, my

3:49

father had late 1940s

3:51

and they had 78 RPM records and

3:55

some Latin music from

3:57

Brazil, but also Swain

4:00

music, Benny Goodman, and Tommy

4:02

Dorsey, but primarily was Django Reinhardt

4:05

and the Hark Club of France.

4:08

And so I was about five years old and I listened to

4:10

these records repeatedly. Swain

4:31

music, Benny Goodman,

4:34

and Tommy Dorsey, but

4:36

primarily was Django Reinhardt

4:39

and the Hark

4:45

Club of France. And that's when I just

4:47

remember the experience of it and watching the

4:50

labels spin around and looking

4:52

at the vinyl and watching the

4:54

needle. And these images

4:56

will come to mind. They were abstract

4:58

images and movement,

5:01

I guess what became camera movement. And

5:03

so ultimately when we moved back to the tenements,

5:06

we had for the first few years of my

5:08

life, we were in a smaller, in a place

5:10

that was almost like suburbia. But then there was

5:12

a problem. My father had to leave, or whatever.

5:16

And we had to go back to where my father and

5:18

mother were born on Elizabeth Street in

5:20

these old tenements. And they weren't fashionable

5:22

to where they are now. They're very fashionable

5:24

now. It was a pretty

5:26

ugly place. Windows were open all

5:29

the time, particularly in the summer. Music

5:31

would come from other people's windows, whether

5:33

it was opera or

5:36

swing music or popular music

5:38

at the time, whether it was

5:41

Tony Bennett or Sinatra or Patti

5:43

Page and that sort of thing. And

5:45

the music I was playing that we had the radio on

5:47

all the time. And a lot of

5:50

that time the radio, the music was, a

5:52

lot of that music found its way into

5:54

Irishman for example, Desifanado for example, music

5:57

by Nelson Riddle, the

5:59

instrumental music themes

6:01

from movies, the theme from the

6:03

Beforton Tessa. All of

6:06

these things were part of our

6:08

daily life, Smile by Chaplin. music

7:12

So in any event, right before

7:14

rock and roll hit, right before 53,

7:18

a lot of this music was something that just

7:20

scored our lives. Yeah. And I

7:22

would hear it from different, some

7:25

of the old Italian people were still,

7:27

I mean the old, the older, the

7:30

old, the ones who didn't speak English, who

7:32

didn't become citizens and they were dying off

7:34

in the 60s but they were still

7:37

listening to Italian soap operas and Italian

7:39

music, popular music like Carl Abouti and

7:42

people like that. And Neapolitan folk

7:44

songs and Neapolitan love ballads and

7:46

Neapolitan pieces of music that are

7:48

very famous now but we hear

7:50

that all the time. When you

7:52

started going to the cinema, did you immediately

7:55

have a connection with how important

7:57

the music was in the films that you

7:59

were seeing? and the films that you were experiencing?

8:01

Yes, there's no doubt. I think part

8:03

of it had to do with British

8:07

cinema. A lot of the Alexander Korda

8:09

films that were shown on television in

8:11

the late 40s, the scores were

8:13

by Miklos Roza and his sound becomes

8:16

something very, very familiar to me. And of course,

8:18

you went up and you did many great scores

8:20

in Hollywood. And

9:41

there was the music of Dimitri Tionkin, which

9:44

the music of Giant, or Land of the

9:47

Pharaohs, for example, was something

9:49

that was overwhelming. I think

9:52

right before Elma Bernstein came in, there

9:54

was other music that I heard in movies

9:57

that stayed with me and made me think.

9:59

that I liked the movie but instead it

10:01

really was the mood that was created by

10:03

the music and that music was by Bernard

10:05

Herman invariably whether it

10:08

goes from the ghost and

10:10

Mrs. Muir to White Witch

10:12

Doctor with Robin Mitchum and

10:14

Susan Hayward to The

10:16

Wrong Man Hitchcock and then of course the

10:19

great scores for the Hitchcock films

10:21

and other films that

10:24

Herman did the scores for Garden

10:26

of Evil with Gary Cooper and

11:51

so the Herman scores stayed

11:53

with me longer I felt the

11:55

world's and Tiamkin

11:58

next Dyna scores were

12:00

basis of Warner Brothers pictures.

12:03

That was something else. That was more

12:05

almost like the academy in a

12:07

way, academic. They had to be there. It's

12:09

the famous story of Betty Davis saying to

12:12

William Myler, when I walk up those stairs, is it me

12:14

walking up the stairs or is it Max Diner? You

12:17

know what I mean? It's an entrance, isn't

12:20

it? Yeah. But

12:22

Tiamkin's score for Land of the

12:24

Farrows is an extraordinary score and

12:27

giant. It's beautiful. Which I

12:29

believe was a bit of an inspiration. Well, there's

12:31

no doubt. There's no doubt. Yeah, I happen to be

12:33

lucky enough to, with my cousin, we went up to

12:36

see 1950 E5, I think it was. Yeah.

12:40

Up to the Roxy Theater in New York for the

12:42

opening night, just to be part of the crowd to

12:44

look. I must have been 12 or 13, 12, I think. And

12:48

somehow, somebody gave him a ticket. I

12:51

was in the crowd saying, I'm not going to use

12:53

this. Take it. So he took it and everybody

12:55

went into the theater. And these people, it was

12:58

a major premiere. The

13:00

Taylor and Rock Hudson were all getting out of the

13:02

cars. It was wild. And we

13:04

were just part of the crowd. And he got

13:07

this ticket, and so he went over to

13:09

the usher outside, and the picture just started. And

13:11

he said, we came all the way from New

13:13

Jersey, and we lost our other ticket. Could you

13:15

do it? Yeah, I come from New

13:18

Jersey. It was downtown. And we lost him.

13:20

The guy was looking at us. Yeah, yeah, you lost your ticket.

13:22

He said, all right, go in. Don't worry. And

13:24

we went in, and I walked in, and there it was

13:26

on the giant screen at the Rapsy Theater. And

13:28

it changed your life. The sense of the

13:31

epic story, the

13:33

way Boris Levin's production

13:35

design changes, the interior of

13:37

the house changes from mahogany to,

13:39

as they get older, a white, everything becomes

13:41

white, the saga of a family, and

13:44

then, of course, the great James Dean in it. And

13:46

so that music in that

13:48

film was – it was a life-changing experience that

13:51

night. In

14:31

terms of when you go on and you

14:33

work with these people

14:35

that you cite as being really part

14:39

of your introduction to film and music

14:41

and then you get the chance to work with Bernard, what's

14:44

that like? Well, the thing was that I always

14:46

felt that if I got a chance to make

14:48

a movie, the movies that I would make obviously

14:50

wouldn't be Hollywood movies, I thought. Well,

14:54

now they're Hollywood movies, but then they weren't.

14:56

I mean, movies were coming out of independent

14:58

world in New York that the leaders there

15:00

were the avant-garde cinema of

15:03

Brakage and Ed M. Spiller

15:05

and Al Leslie and all these

15:07

people. And then to name a few,

15:09

there was Warhol, of course, there was something else, but

15:13

primarily Cassavetes who

15:15

created the films right there

15:17

in the street with the very lightweight

15:19

equipment and Shirley Clark,

15:21

same thing, cool world and the

15:23

connection, well, the cool world primarily.

15:26

In any event, that made it possible

15:28

to make these pictures. Therefore, I was making a

15:30

different kind of film and therefore they didn't

15:32

deserve, I thought, the majesty

15:35

of the Hollywood score. It

15:38

just didn't seem, why would you take, I love

15:40

that, there is a majesty to that. Our

15:43

movies were like marginal, they weren't part of

15:45

this thing. So how could I have that

15:48

music in there? So I knew the

15:50

music that was scoring me was

15:52

the music I was hearing and

15:54

the music I was living with because I saw life

15:58

scored by... Vaughan

16:00

Monroe and Chuck Berry and

16:03

Sinatra and again Tony Bennett.

16:07

I mean I saw a life scored by that

16:09

whether it was sides of beef

16:11

being delivered to the butcher store across the

16:14

street or rats

16:16

being chased by people because you had to kill

16:18

the rats when you saw them. It was a

16:21

very dirty area. The poor homeless

16:23

or the drunken guys on the Bowery.

16:26

And meantime Fats Domino was playing when my

16:28

dream boat comes home and they're falling

16:30

on the floor on to the ground. I'm

16:58

in the long air race.

17:02

We will be free hearted. Yes

17:05

forever. We

17:08

must be both. Ah, ah. I

17:11

mean so it was a score in my

17:13

life. And so I put all that

17:15

together including Mascanis

17:18

and Temetzo which eventually wound up

17:20

in a raging boat. Yeah.

17:24

Some Tchaikovsky. My uncles gave me some 12 inch

17:27

LPs that were not 33 and

17:30

a third but they were still 78 and

17:34

Claire Delune for example. And

17:37

Capriccio Italian and

17:39

Caruso singing Mapari from

17:41

Martha and Palyacci. So

17:44

I had those besides Benny Goodman,

17:46

besides all the swing

17:48

music and then you had of course jazz coming

17:50

in too. And you had John Coltrane,

17:52

you had all these others coming in from different

17:55

parts, Jimmy Smith on organ. And

17:57

Alma Jamal and that sort of thing.

18:00

hearing but I was more

18:02

towards popular So

18:23

when it came time to taxi driver I said Alice

18:25

is that way too and Alice doesn't live

18:27

here anymore. When it came to taxi driver I

18:29

said this is a character created

18:31

by Schrader, Paul Schrader, and I said this

18:34

guy doesn't listen to music. I said the

18:36

only way I think it

18:38

could be expressed I knew at that time

18:40

Bernard Herman was working with Brian De Palma

18:42

and Dutch filmmakers called Vinn

18:45

Versappen and Pym de la Perre

18:47

in Amsterdam. I became friends with

18:49

them and they introduced me to

18:51

Bernard Herman and it was 1960. That

18:55

was the early 70s because a taxi

18:57

driver was making 75 and

19:00

by that point I was well aware of

19:02

the impact his scores had on me. I

19:52

did design the movie however. I designed the movie.

19:55

I designed it to Van

19:57

Morrison's music. him

20:00

because he also appeared in The Last Waltz. No,

20:03

I didn't never met him. Over the past few years I

20:05

got to know him a little but I

20:07

didn't meet him at The Last

20:10

Waltz. He just came on stage.

20:12

That was it. Yeah, being banned,

20:14

I'm mad. Come on,

20:16

are you kidding? And I know, I

20:19

mean when I heard Astro Weeks

20:21

and when I heard his other them, the

20:23

group Them and

20:25

then his other albums

20:28

but primarily I liked very much

20:31

Astro Weeks of course, Madam

20:34

George and Like a Ballerina

20:36

and Slim Slow Sly and

20:38

Cypress Avenue and all these

20:40

things, his

20:42

language and his phrasing

20:45

sort of between

20:47

I guess James Joyce and

20:49

Ray Charles somehow. Yeah,

20:52

he's such a great storyteller. Yeah,

20:55

amazing. He transports you. Yeah. And

20:57

suddenly get into a trance like

20:59

very spiritual experience listening to his

21:01

music or cleaning windows, all this

21:03

sort of thing. And so I

21:06

listened primarily was TB sheets

21:09

which carried me through and then eventually I used it as

21:12

an actual score in bringing out the debt. I

21:14

can't believe you tempt it to

21:16

go. The car, the cab

21:18

coming through the steam, working around the

21:20

harmonic. Did

22:03

you put version of that? No, no, no, no, no,

22:05

it couldn't be, it couldn't be. But

22:09

the whole sense of the movie is

22:11

Van doing those blues, the whole sense.

22:13

And then I said, but the inner

22:15

part is Bernard Herrmann. Well, that's

22:18

really interesting because I heard the

22:20

absolute joy of chatting to Thelma a few years

22:22

ago. We talked quite a lot about your

22:24

collaboration and where music as another collaborator

22:26

comes into it. And I also listened

22:28

to how beautifully inspirational P Heisberg have

22:31

been to you. The

22:34

Red Shoes is an example of a 25 minute scene where...

22:37

Yeah, they stop the movie. The musical

22:39

part inside that's not... Yeah, yeah.

22:42

And that's why I'm sure

22:44

when we said this, ballet enthusiasts or ballet

22:47

aficionados are rather annoyed

22:50

by the film because you don't see very often, you

22:52

don't see the full figure of the dancer. And

22:54

don't forget, this goes back to any great dancer on

22:57

film or on a video,

22:59

a visual medium Fred Astaire had in his

23:01

contract that it had to be head to

23:04

toe. Did he? Yes.

23:06

So if you look at him dancing, there are cuts, but the

23:08

cut is to another angle which shows head to

23:10

toe. Did he get back

23:13

towards Fred Astaire? Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson, when

23:15

I did bed, had to be very careful

23:17

to make sure that we saw as much of him as possible.

23:19

I had to convince him that in

23:21

certain moments when he spun around, that's... I was

23:23

going tighter and then we get the feet and

23:26

then we go pull back again and show the

23:28

full figure. And so,

23:30

you know, so here you have the red shoes

23:32

and you don't really have that in the ballet sequence,

23:34

which you have is what she thinks. What

23:36

she's perceiving maybe, what she thinks she sees,

23:39

what she hears when she hears the music,

23:41

what she's feeling. And same thing, so I

23:43

applied that to the fight scenes in Raging

23:45

Bull. So incredible. Yeah,

23:48

so the guys in the ring, and I'm telling you, if

23:50

you get hit a few times with those gloves, you

23:53

know, they are athletes. You

23:55

do feel and see differently

23:57

and you hear differently. people

24:00

don't even know where they are. So

24:02

you'll hallucinate in effect. Yeah. And

24:04

a combination of the way she's been

24:06

also working on The Last

24:08

Waltz and filming a band like Emmylou

24:10

Harris, for example, in terms of similarly,

24:13

we want to see her. It's

24:15

that kind of thing where you're not interested

24:18

in the audience. You're not interested in a crew. Oh,

24:20

no. No, you see, what happened was that

24:23

I got involved with some friends of mine at

24:26

that time in the late 60s. We

24:28

came out of NYU. We

24:31

were making documentaries, et cetera, while

24:33

working, trying to get a feature made.

24:36

I met Thelma that way, Thelma's screen maker.

24:39

And we got involved at Woodstock. And

24:41

at Woodstock, being there four days and four

24:43

nights, whatever it was on the stage, assisting

24:46

the cameraman and assisting the director. And

24:48

then in the editing, for the most part, I was

24:50

part of the editing for the first

24:53

cut of the picture. And then I was taken

24:55

off the picture. But the thing

24:57

about it was that half the film, this is a

24:59

three-hour film, half the film, the

25:01

90 minutes is music. And 90 minutes, the

25:04

audience. And that audience was part

25:06

of the whole experience, which was an extraordinary

25:09

experience, at least, because everything

25:12

worked. It could have been

25:14

disaster. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't even get food.

25:16

They would bring food down for us. I mean, there

25:18

were 500,000 people. You couldn't get

25:20

anywhere. You couldn't move. You

25:23

were in prison on stage. The

25:25

only people, I guess, the ax came

25:27

in through helicopter, I guess. I don't

25:29

know. Because the cars, everything was stopped.

25:31

Everything had stopped. And so I

25:34

found that the footage of the

25:36

audience was so complete, so to speak, in

25:38

the final cut of that film, which I

25:40

didn't have anything to do with. If

25:43

I got to do a music film, and

25:46

it was approached by John Taplin

25:49

to produce Mean Streets, to do

25:51

The Last Waltz, I would

25:54

not show the audience. Because I

25:56

said, let's stay on the stage. Let's

25:58

see what the performance. the performers

26:00

do. How do they work a band?

26:02

Apparently the bassist and the drummer

26:05

are like the motor of, I didn't

26:08

get any of that, yeah and they look at each

26:10

other and they work this, how do they do all

26:13

that? Yeah they count and let's

26:15

stay with them and you know what really

26:17

comes from, you should see this great

26:20

film called Jazz on a Summer's Day by

26:23

Bert Stern, it was a great photographer

26:25

and he just did

26:27

the Newport Jazz Festival back

26:30

in the late 50s and you could

26:32

get it on DVD I'm sure but

26:34

you know he has everybody from

26:36

Anita O'Day to Louis Armstrong, Jack

26:38

Teagarden, Chico Hamilton, Jimmy

26:41

Joffrey. It's jazz, a

26:43

shot in technicolor, shot in color I should

26:46

say 35 millimeter and

26:48

rarely moves the camera and so you're

26:50

looking at Chico Hamilton play those

26:52

drums and it's an angle from below the drums

26:54

looking up at him and you see

26:56

the relationship from his head, his eyes

26:59

to the sticks, to the drum and as

27:02

it increases, this is

27:04

why is this so effective? Because I'm looking

27:06

at them what do we need to cut

27:08

to people and cut to lights and you

27:10

don't need to. Anita O'Day with her vocalizing

27:13

is extraordinary. You know it's the I think

27:15

the essential concert film there's no doubt about

27:17

it and so I decided let's not show

27:19

the audience, let's stay on the

27:21

stage and then as we didn't even know it

27:24

was gonna be a movie and then we saw

27:26

the rushes because I shot it in 35 millimeter

27:28

which was an experiment. Usually you

27:30

shoot those things in 16 because

27:32

they gave you the freedom to move on stage but

27:34

I didn't want that. Here we had, unlike

27:37

Woodstock, we knew where the band was

27:39

gonna be and unlike Woodstock or

27:41

unlike other performers the band was

27:43

basically stationary. They didn't move around

27:45

a lot so I could

27:47

place the cameras and I can move the cameras around a

27:49

bit and so we had six, seven

27:51

cameras and they were all placed very carefully

27:53

on dollies etc. You know I

27:56

wrote an incredible script to

27:58

each song you know basically it

28:00

became like an emergency

28:03

where all the cameras are

28:05

suddenly broken and we have one more I need to cover

28:07

so and so he's going to be singing in the next

28:09

bit and she's coming out and you got to cover her,

28:11

that kind of thing. But eventually

28:14

at some

28:16

point during the six hour concert whatever

28:18

it was, we did run out

28:20

of the coincidentally

28:23

what happens is that some

28:25

cameras ran out of film, some sync

28:28

motors died and sure enough out

28:30

of the six cameras or the seventh was a

28:32

handheld, out of the six cameras

28:35

like five of them had gone down and

28:37

what was the song, The Wait, the

28:39

key song, it just happened

28:41

that way and so apparently we

28:43

got some footage on The Wait, it wasn't

28:45

very good and so later about

28:47

six months into editing the picture I was working

28:50

on New York, New York editing, Robbie

28:52

Robertson said I think you know we'd better redo

28:54

The Wait instead in which case maybe

28:56

we should do this called Evangeline 2 and

28:59

bring in not Emmy Luke and then we could

29:01

also do the last Waltz theme at the end

29:04

and so we designed that as

29:06

musical numbers that

29:08

I did on a sound stage and

29:11

those shots that I

29:13

designed like they weren't done

29:15

with like three cameras simultaneously and we didn't

29:18

in the editing know if it

29:20

was the first four bars of The Wait the camera

29:22

would move from left to right let's say and a

29:24

light would move on the light would come on behind

29:26

them that was the shot and so

29:29

that then cut to the next cut

29:31

to the next it built

29:33

to the intercutting of the

29:35

refrain the intercutting if you watch it the

29:37

intercutting gets more intense until

29:39

you put the wait right on me

29:41

and that was the design A

30:00

man might find a bed. He

30:04

just cleaned and shook my hand. Know

30:07

was all he said. Take

30:10

the load off, Fanny. Take

30:13

the load to breathe. Take

30:17

the load off, Fanny. And

30:23

you put the loader right on down.

30:26

And so that was done over a period of a couple

30:28

of nights. And that was then applied to

30:30

also the work scene scenes and roles

30:33

involved. The punches were like. Yeah,

30:36

the punches were like music. In

30:38

other words, three rights, one left,

30:40

one shot. Not two cameras, three

30:43

cameras. In some cases, that

30:45

allowed for, in an

30:48

interesting way, the weight

30:50

and the band line were very

30:52

easy to edit because of that. Whereas

30:54

the actual concert was

30:58

a real editing job. Because you have to

31:00

catch. But we had it all on stage.

31:02

And in the case of Raging Bull, in some cases,

31:04

a few of the fights were very easy to edit.

31:07

Other fights were not. But even though they were

31:09

all controlled, there's still something else. Because what happens

31:11

is that you may design the shot. But

31:14

then a shot takes on its own life. And

31:16

it becomes something else sometimes. And so

31:18

in any event, the concept was the same. Put it

31:20

that way. That was the start of this amazing

31:23

friendship and collaboration with Robbie. Yes.

31:26

That has gone on throughout your

31:28

career as a filmmaker. And his

31:30

role has taken on different

31:33

forms across different

31:35

movies, whether it be he

31:37

writes a couple. Yes, he did originally The

31:39

Color of Money, for example. The

31:42

other great composer I worked with was

31:44

Elma Bernstein. Elma Bernstein. He

31:47

was an extraordinary composer for everything. He

31:50

came a little later. I was more

31:52

aware of Rocha and Tiamkin and

31:55

Bernard Herman before Bernstein. Bernstein did

31:58

the Ten Commandments, I think. and the premier

32:01

is Man with the Golden Arm. I

32:03

think the same year. Same year? Yeah,

32:05

yeah, yeah. And Man with the Golden Arm is... I

32:09

mean, and then you hear Ten Commandments and it's

32:11

beyond world stuff. So I

32:13

did... Yeah, I eventually was looking up to

32:15

work with Elma a few times. But Robbie

32:18

did Color of Money and a number of

32:20

others. But he would

32:22

also, even if he wasn't doing

32:24

the actual scoring, let's say in

32:26

Casino for example, three hours was

32:28

wall-to-wall music. So much

32:30

music. Yeah. And also mixing

32:32

music, like Ginger Baker, Ovar. Well,

32:34

yeah. Well, that was

32:36

something that Robbie inspired because he told

32:38

me, don't forget George Delaroo. Absolutely, yeah.

32:41

And I said, Delaroo? Yeah, you mean...

32:43

He said, yeah, from contempt, from the

32:46

Mepri. And we put it on. Of

32:48

course, I love that score. And the

32:51

story between the husband and wife and that

32:53

is similar to the

32:55

story of De Niro and Sharon

32:57

Stone in Casino. And he said, just

32:59

listen to that. And I said, yeah. And so what I

33:01

did was I took that and mixed it

33:04

with Ginger Baker's drum

33:06

solo, Live Cream on Toad,

33:09

and poured it in and out throughout

33:11

the picture. Because the tragic nature of

33:13

the Delaroo really resonated for me. And

33:16

then I began to realize, why can't we

33:18

use scores from other movies? I'd love to

33:20

be able to use the score of King of Kings by

33:22

Miklos Roza somewhere. I have no idea, but

33:25

I'm just saying. Yeah, but they almost

33:27

said that you always kind of come in with a kind of

33:29

musical edit almost of the film. Well, it's

33:32

pretty much there. You know exactly what it is. No,

33:35

I know. And very often the scenes are designed

33:37

to these pieces of music. A lot

33:39

of the work is done, I kind

33:42

of lock myself away in a hotel usually, if I

33:44

can for like 10 days with

33:47

a lot of music and then design

33:50

the shirts. But listening to

33:52

music of different kinds usually builds to

33:54

that. What I mean by builds to

33:57

that part of the process. I

33:59

Don't go in and say, okay. Music Know the music

34:01

is always. Shuffling around a year

34:03

something I listened david your Hands himself

34:05

on that he has a show called

34:08

i mention of fact that for three

34:10

hours set on on Sirius Xm and

34:12

it's so eclectic and at goes back

34:15

to some the music I use and

34:17

know till is the Flameless. Political

34:19

facetious you had with while the about. What?

34:22

You're looking for for fritz for

34:24

from him. For. This particular. well,

34:26

in this case. Yeah, and they're in this case,

34:28

you know, Robbie am. I think

34:30

Robbie is. T. Factor in

34:33

me been making this down because I

34:35

didn't really know Native Americans do. Met

34:37

them in the early seventies. Quite

34:39

knows, not even ignoring about the whole thing. And

34:41

quite get it. But when it gets Robbie. Over.

34:44

The years I began to understand more and

34:46

I can more fascinated by. The. Natives.

34:49

Of course East Peace, Mohawk I Yoga.

34:52

And Jewish. The. From the first

34:54

Nations outside Toronto. So. It's

34:56

a little different, but the same and so on.

34:58

And in this case I thought there was a

35:00

combination of the work he was doing on his

35:03

own solo albums that he made and past twenty

35:05

years. And he's can really. Comfortable.

35:08

With the Native American thinking to him.

35:11

And to understand that of a disease that that

35:13

can lead to this movie actually. And are

35:15

in an odd way. I said, you know,

35:17

freshly want the explosion of the oil. And.

35:20

I want to hear those seen only

35:22

the old yeah I am and I

35:24

suddenly to let Iraq be commended Owari

35:26

better Of course a lot of Rock

35:28

and roll is are based and Native

35:30

American music at Link Wray and others

35:32

were Native Americans but they change their

35:34

names the in the fifties know that

35:36

and so on. There was a documentary

35:38

called rumble Yeah that deals with all

35:40

this which robberies and I meant for

35:42

a few minutes of it but I'm

35:44

in any event the said i want

35:46

that age and at the same time

35:48

as if you know. Job or

35:50

Guitar December to Wailing the

35:52

wailing of the Coyotes. Oh

35:54

yeah, yeah, it's amazing. A

35:56

wolf calls played on guitar

35:58

and solidify the. Them is

36:00

extraordinary. Oh.

36:16

Oh. Oh. Oh.

36:21

Oh they. So.

36:40

That the main with a

36:42

picture I felt that really

36:44

stories of between them. Malian

36:47

earnest of the cell love story

36:49

which becomes insidious dangerous I said

36:51

has to need something. On

36:54

the fleshy and dangerous and Sexy.

36:56

dangerous. And he gave me that

36:58

in terms of their site the

37:01

Something: a camping sound com. And

37:04

suddenly became as we were

37:06

editing became the track that

37:09

we kept. Referring to

37:11

and utilizing. And

38:06

I recall diminish any more this kind of thing

38:08

and he'd send it, you know, But it was

38:10

difficult because he lived in L A and he

38:12

was ill at the time and and I'm. We

38:15

pulled it together as best we could and a set

38:18

of gimme some more Wolf both Christ's. Wouldn't

38:21

have let us know him as he looks like a

38:23

tail a the i want a coyote. Gimme a

38:25

guy years or and. It's

38:28

of it. Will it's It's wonderful

38:30

the he's getting eaten Sets phrase. Last

38:32

piece of work though and miss him

38:34

terribly. Italia million? I don't know. The.

38:37

Last ten years realizes he stayed. Melia was in

38:39

New York for we see each other but. You

38:42

know, lose like Durham. Pretty

38:44

much like a family add. Like.

38:46

A brother had. Very. Very

38:48

unique and. Voices. Damn

38:51

voice was great just we spoke and

38:53

he was so cool. Can be so

38:55

angry. Semi

38:58

some mess. I happy with this the to I'd

39:00

be. I'd be jumping up and down screaming and

39:02

only be like that that up the. Heads

39:05

up that that's with the opposites attract.

39:07

You see? Yeah and then and. Then I

39:09

one point i don't you try to calm me down aren't

39:11

you and known that. Such

39:14

as fuck out of us it actually costs

39:16

For our that I didn't even get shot

39:18

to Sochi by the class. Are you wanting to?

39:20

All. I wanted our my my guys i'm one of

39:22

them and then some New York yes you know

39:24

I wanted amusing wanted to score the pitcher. the

39:26

film was made at that time here. May

39:29

be as it's too bad maybe I don't

39:31

know if I could have measured at that

39:33

time. It just didn't happen. I'm going home.

39:35

Seats are taxi driver and played far more.

39:37

Sit in the background. As

39:39

Tb seats a cast set, foreign bodies

39:42

are said. He earns a foreign bodies

39:44

you know Turn up the radio, Senate

39:46

and Idio One. Open the window. Open

39:48

the window. That's right thing I'm couple

39:50

of friends a common over little later

39:52

get duped is this is a really

39:54

see. I don't I say it it so they

39:56

yeah. Oh thank you for your time

39:58

Thank you Think is really great. Go

41:29

to kill his of the fiber mean that see don't

41:31

live long. By will be Roberts and. Rising of

41:33

this latest episode. Also try

41:35

Kid Nice. Martin.

41:38

Scorsese. Humor

41:41

and for taking the train seats to

41:44

me. Also sued Sir as t. Scott

41:46

and the whole team who made this

41:48

happen. Keller's Elderflower Moon is available to

41:50

watch on Apple Tv, so get yourself

41:52

signed up for that if you haven't

41:54

already, and if you see the opportunity

41:56

to watch in. The big screen. Please go

41:59

and do that. I had a

42:01

great shots with Martin's long time editor

42:03

as an ancient at the start of

42:05

the episode still was good maker in

42:07

the podcast which you can find I

42:09

eat his bow windows comes along with

42:11

all of our previous episodes that are

42:13

loads of Scorsese funds among my guess

42:15

as you'd imagine. see you can hear

42:17

him talk to Bite Threat. Many episodes

42:19

follow us on social we are outside

42:21

tracking you key on. We also have

42:23

a You Tube channel will be open

42:25

up the video of my shot with

42:27

Martin. Next up we got a Lovely

42:29

Can, a doubleheader. Of Something Old on

42:31

Something use at Lot of Cotton

42:33

and is an incredible musician and

42:35

film composer and she most recently

42:38

and composed music for American Six

42:40

in a phenomenal so that's been

42:42

quite rightly nominee aid for many

42:44

awards on this site and across

42:46

the pond and then celebrate the

42:48

anniversary of for Me which was

42:50

a really important film in my

42:52

try to some fun journey City

42:54

of Gold Director for non, don't

42:56

many Alice joins us to talk

42:58

about City of God so. We

43:00

have lured us and Fernando on next

43:02

six episodes of said He Not Supposed

43:05

Pleasure. Mountains

43:31

the Inventors the dreams tribute after of

43:33

the bunch sprint to also the cofounder

43:35

of character of Venture fund for early

43:38

stage startups. How and Why did you

43:40

start using Euro teams In this division

43:42

of thinking I don't want to be

43:44

doing stuff online to thinking now when

43:47

I do is spreading person was a

43:49

company site. where did he use Bureau

43:51

even though we're all in the same

43:53

room because that's a better way for

43:55

us to get to sort them. As

43:58

an investor, they're basically investing in. The

44:00

duty to solve problems were saying. We say

44:02

this group of people who can be able

44:04

to solve a problem in are really think

44:06

Winfrey Value by doing it. Daschle, you need

44:09

to give people the tools that can help

44:11

them make decisions of them, collaborate of them.

44:13

this was and see things in a different

44:15

way. And Mural does all the things so

44:17

it's immediately as an investor. I'm sentence gives

44:20

the team the tools that are done

44:22

to help them Saying urgent need for

44:24

the most brighten their their skills as

44:26

smartphones have thrown at the top The.