0:06

Hey everyone, it's

0:06

Simi Shah, and welcome to

0:09

trailblazers. On this podcast, I

0:09

dive deep into the journeys of

0:16

trailblazing South Asians,

0:16

sharing the stories of the

0:20

leaders and dreamers lighting

0:20

the way across the South Asian

0:24

diaspora. Welcome, everyone.

0:24

How's everyone doing tonight?

0:34

Good are so excited to be here,

0:34

celebrating South Asian

0:42

trailblazers, our first ever

0:42

live podcast in Boston. For

0:50

those of you who don't know me,

0:50

I'm Simi Shah. I am the founder

0:54

and host of South Asian

0:54

trailblazers, and we are a

0:57

podcast, as well as a broader

0:57

media platform and community

1:01

dedicated to elevating the

1:01

stories of leading South Asians

1:05

as well as convening them. And I

1:05

started this platform almost

1:09

three years ago exactly to the

1:09

date, because I'd recently

1:13

graduated from college and was

1:13

looking for a way to maintain

1:17

the connection I'd had to my

1:17

culture my whole life. And as I

1:21

was looking around in this new

1:21

professional chapter of my life,

1:24

I kept seeing South Asians

1:24

breaking barriers and making

1:28

their mark in every possible

1:28

industry in space I could think

1:32

of, and I thought, How exciting

1:32

would it be if we had a space

1:37

where we could share in their

1:37

stories in a way that can inform

1:40

and inspire our own journeys.

1:40

And so that was the genesis of

1:45

South Asian trailblazers, and

1:45

I'm proud to say that today we

1:48

are celebrating three years, six

1:48

seasons in over 60 stories tall.

2:00

Today, marks and especially

2:00

momentous occasion, because I

2:04

have the privilege of kicking

2:04

off season seven, with two of

2:08

the most extraordinary leaders I

2:08

know. And honestly, I don't

2:13

really think they need an

2:13

introduction, but I'm gonna give

2:16

you one anyway. Because if

2:16

you've ever listened to our

2:19

podcast, you'll know that we're

2:19

all about diving deep into the

2:23

journeys of trailblazing South

2:23

Asians. And so I want to help

2:26

set the stage before we start.

2:26

Dr. Srishti Gupta is a physician

2:31

leader whose career spans the

2:31

private, public and nonprofit

2:35

sectors. Today she dedicates her

2:35

time to board service, serving

2:40

on the boards of Dorsia

2:40

pharmaceuticals, the North Skin

2:44

Foundation, and the backpack

2:44

Foundation. She also supports

2:49

steam experiences and

2:49

scholarships for underserved

2:52

students, and mentors founders

2:52

in health and education.

2:57

Previously, she spent nearly two

2:57

decades at McKinsey and Company.

3:02

She was a senior expert in the

3:02

global health practice, and

3:05

eventually served as global

3:05

director for McKinsey alumni and

3:09

strategy, Director of Global

3:09

Programs and Director of

3:13

Diversity and Inclusion.

3:13

Throughout her career, she has

3:17

worked as a physician and public

3:17

health consultant in diverse

3:21

market contexts from India to

3:21

Botswana. She holds a BA ma MPP,

3:28

an MD from Harvard University,

3:28

because that isn't enough

3:31

degrees, and a master of

3:31

philosophy from the University

3:35

of Cambridge. Now for our next

3:35

guest, Dr. Voss Narasimhan, is

3:41

the CEO of Novartis Who could

3:41

have guessed since becoming and

3:45

C CEO and 2018, vos has led a

3:45

strategic and cultural

3:50

transformation to build a fully

3:50

focused medicines company. Since

3:54

first joining the company in

3:54

2005. FOSS has held a range of

3:58

leadership roles, including

3:58

Global Head of Development for

4:02

Novartis vaccines, Global Head

4:02

of drug development, and chief

4:06

medical officer. He is an

4:06

elected member of the National

4:10

Academy of Medicine in the US,

4:10

and in 2023 he became chair of

4:15

the Pharmaceutical Research and

4:15

Manufacturers of America. He

4:19

holds a BS from the University

4:19

of Chicago and an MD and MPP

4:24

from Harvard University. Please

4:24

join me in welcoming Dr. Voss

4:28

Narasimhan and Dr. Shashi Gupta

4:28

Narasimhan.

4:40

Thank you guys so much for being

4:40

here today. Thank

4:42

you so much for having us.

4:43

How does it feel

4:43

being back in your old stomping

4:46

grounds?

4:46

I do a lot of town halls from here.

4:49

This is familiar territory for you

4:51

so much for me and I know a lot of people have been curious about

4:53

what is who is the woman behind

4:56

boss and I'm just super excited

4:56

to meet everybody today.

4:59

We're excited to have

4:59

View. Now both of you have

5:02

individually built extraordinary

5:02

careers. And I want to go back

5:06

to the very beginning. Can each

5:06

of you talk about your

5:10

respective upbringings as first

5:10

generation South Asian

5:13

Americans? And what initially

5:13

piqued your interest in medicine

5:17

and global health? And I know

5:17

trust me, in your case, your

5:19

father was a gastroenterologist,

5:19

did he inspire that early

5:23

propensity for medicine.

5:25

So my

5:25

parents moved to the US from

5:27

India in 1971. They landed in

5:27

Brooklyn, New York, where I was

5:31

born, my dad was a medical

5:31

graduate from India. And they

5:35

were very excited to have people

5:35

come from with medical degrees

5:39

to the US at that point in time.

5:39

I grew up in Brooklyn, and then

5:43

move it eventually to Long

5:43

Island. For school and Long

5:47

Island. There weren't a lot of

5:47

Indian kids in my, in my school

5:51

at the time, not a lot of South

5:51

Asian kids. And so I kind of had

5:55

this life like a lot of us did,

5:55

where the weekends were very,

5:58

you know, you're with your parents, friends, and you're doing lots of things in the

6:00

community. And then during the

6:03

week, you're trying to keep your

6:03

head down, and just try to be a

6:05

kid and just try to fit in as

6:05

best as you can. Unfortunately,

6:08

I had the trifecta of being

6:08

incredibly unathletic, wearing

6:12

glasses and being very good at

6:12

math. That made it very hard to

6:17

fit in during school. But

6:17

eventually, things started to

6:19

smooth out. And all the time

6:19

growing up, my dad worked in

6:23

Brooklyn at a hospital and we

6:23

would go this was back before

6:26

hospitalist. But my dad would

6:26

round on all his patients every

6:29

weekend. And so we would go to

6:29

the to the city, we would go to

6:32

Brooklyn, from Long Island where

6:32

we were, and we would either

6:35

wait in the hospital or we would

6:35

I would either sit at the

6:38

nurse's station or I would go to

6:38

a park. And then we'd come and

6:40

we'd page them on the hospital

6:40

system, which was very cool for

6:43

us back then. And I think, for

6:43

me, seeing how incredibly happy

6:46

he was as a physician really

6:46

piqued my interest in medicine.

6:50

But I think it was actually my

6:50

mom, that made me really

6:55

interested in thinking about a

6:55

typical ways to do things. She

6:58

was incredibly supportive of

6:58

doing things, like trying things

7:02

out. So one of the things that

7:02

she had me try out in high

7:05

school, for example, was

7:05

taekwondo. And I eventually made

7:09

it to a black belt and like, I

7:09

would have never done this and

7:11

my mom not decided to say, hey,

7:11

just go for a class so you

7:15

weren't taking me down. That's a

7:15

little bit of like, how it was

7:22

like growing up and why I got

7:22

interested in my science program

7:25

at my public school, Long Island

7:25

was so good. And I really

7:28

thought science, and we're here

7:28

at the Novartis institutes for

7:31

biomedical research. Deep

7:31

science was kind of the route to

7:34

understanding human health. And

7:34

I got super involved in research

7:38

and science as a high school student. And I majored in Biology and college.

7:42

asked, Can you paint

7:42

us a picture of your early

7:45

childhood? Does it bear any

7:45

resemblance to hers?

7:47

I mean, many,

7:47

many similarities. You know, my

7:49

my parents, my father first and

7:49

my mother came to the US in the

7:53

late 1960s, early 70s. My father

7:53

first actually, Texas, and then

7:59

ended up in Pittsburgh. So I was

7:59

born in Pittsburgh,

8:02

Pennsylvania, where at the time

8:02

there was a small Indian

8:05

community, but not not

8:05

necessarily a very, very big

8:08

one. And actually, my parents

8:08

started a temple there, which

8:12

ended up being with their

8:12

friends, a huge, huge part of my

8:17

upgrading. And most of my

8:17

evenings and weekends were at

8:20

the Shri Venkateshwara temple in

8:20

Penn Hills, Pittsburgh. And I

8:26

think that also had an impact in

8:26

other dimensions as well. I

8:28

mean, my mother was very keen on

8:28

introducing us to Indian

8:32

culture, Indian heritage, going

8:32

to Indian, the temples, summer

8:37

camps, reading the Bhagavad

8:37

Gita, reading the MaHA Bara and

8:41

learning all of those lessons, I

8:41

still think the Bhagavad Gita is

8:44

one of the most important

8:44

leadership texts, one can find

8:47

in any in any Eastern or Western

8:47

tradition. So that was that was

8:51

a big part of my my upbringing,

8:51

there and like Srishti, also

8:55

just trying to fit in, put your

8:55

head down, you're one of the

8:57

maybe a handful of kids from

8:57

other ethnicities, non Caucasian

9:02

kids at your school, just try to

9:02

figure it out, don't stick out,

9:05

I was not a black belt, I was

9:05

much more. Throughout my life,

9:09

I've been much more mediocre

9:09

than her. And we've been

9:11

together since like, we were 21

9:11

years old. So a lot of

9:15

opportunities to prove that. And

9:15

so that was that was the way I

9:19

grew up. And I think a lot of my

9:19

passion to impact public health

9:22

actually came from my mother

9:22

again. My mother was somebody

9:26

who really believed in taking us

9:26

to India, showing us the way

9:31

people live and reminding us

9:31

again and again that we have

9:34

such opportunities to contribute

9:34

and serve, and that you have to

9:39

serve and contributed with the

9:39

opportunities you've given. Work

9:42

hard, learn a lot. Be

9:42

relentlessly curious about the

9:46

world. She built me a huge

9:46

curiosity, but figure out how

9:49

you're going to make a

9:49

difference for people and I

9:52

think that kind of stayed stayed

9:52

with me. Absolutely.

9:55

It's interesting, the parallel threads with both your mom's and sort of intangible

9:57

ways in which they impact Did

10:00

you know both of your paths

10:00

converge at Harvard Medical

10:04

School and you preempted my question you guys have been together since you were 21 years

10:06

old. It's a story that starts

10:09

right here on Route nine in

10:09

Boston and ends atop Mount

10:14

Kilimanjaro not and is cemented

10:14

atop, clearly continuing. Can

10:19

you tell us a little bit about how you guys first met?

10:21

Oh,

10:21

gosh. So before I met boss, I

10:27

was I kind of said to myself,

10:27

that is person I definitely

10:29

don't want to be. I had heard

10:29

that he was in a fraternity and

10:35

I there was just a bunch of

10:35

things I had total

10:37

misconceptions on. But we

10:37

actually met in a state where

10:41

the first conversation we ever

10:41

had was in a stairwell

10:43

Vanderbilt Hall,

10:46

dorm for the medical HMS

10:47

students. And

10:49

they're all nodding.

10:51

And

10:51

this was, we just started

10:53

talking a little bit and I

10:53

think, well, as you say, Me, I

10:57

was very active in the South

10:57

Asian community in college. And

11:01

I learned very soon that Bas was

11:01

also active in the South Asian

11:04

community in college. And we

11:04

brainstormed this idea and this

11:08

stairwell to have a pan asian

11:08

festival for the medical school

11:12

in order to introduce the

11:12

different cultures in the Mac

11:15

for the Mac. I don't even know

11:15

if it's called the Mac anymore,

11:18

knotting again, I

11:20

don't know what it's called now.

11:21

And we

11:21

decided to throw this thing

11:25

together. We choreographed as

11:25

every good Indian story starts

11:29

with the donde era. We

11:29

choreographed it on Eros

11:33

together and we went up and down

11:33

Route nine to Framingham,

11:36

because back then, Framingham

11:36

was sort of the mecca of all

11:39

things. So we got we went to

11:39

Home Depot, and we got towels

11:42

for the Donya, which we cut

11:42

painted. We went we borrowed we

11:46

rented those costumes from

11:46

Monty. Like we did just a ton of

11:50

things. And we were just driving

11:50

back and forth on Route nine,

11:52

and we ate an olive garden and

11:52

we waited. And Pizza Hut was

11:55

another place

11:56

fine dining.

11:57

We were fine dining. We were like living the life. And I we talked

11:58

all the time. Like all these

12:03

calls are just conversations

12:03

back and forth. And then when

12:06

anything would ever happen, I

12:06

would pick up the landline I

12:08

don't know if you guys know landlines.

12:10

I've seen one of the movies.

12:12

We picked up the landline and we would call each other up and

12:14

just kind of share with each

12:16

other. And we just realized we

12:16

were really we just love being

12:20

together. But I don't think we

12:20

actually we weren't I wasn't

12:22

clear that we'll be clear

12:23

that the important. One important part she forgets is I did actually

12:25

ask her out on a date. And then

12:28

she said Who else is coming?

12:28

That's real. I wanted to go to

12:34

an ad but I chose a ridiculous

12:34

thing to choose. I chose to see

12:38

psycho at the Brattle street

12:38

theater. I got

12:42

tired. I mean, the medical students here at the people who've done

12:43

medical school here will will

12:46

remember this. We were so tired.

12:46

We did it. We went and it got

12:50

dark. And we sat down and we

12:50

both fell asleep. Like within

12:54

two minutes. That was

12:57

wow, that's American

12:57

Psycho.

13:04

I think American Psycho I don't even think it was out. Yeah.

13:08

So you both meet in

13:08

medical school. And it's

13:10

interesting, because I'm curious

13:10

about the ways in which you also

13:13

impacted each other's life

13:13

trajectories. You both made the

13:17

fairly unconventional decision

13:17

to pivot into industry after

13:20

medical school rather than

13:20

continuing in clinical medicine.

13:24

And Boston. In your case, you

13:24

initially started out at the

13:26

World Health Organization, you

13:26

did a short stint at McKinsey

13:30

before being recruited to

13:30

Novartis. Can you talk us

13:32

through your decision making

13:32

process about going straight to

13:35

industry?

13:36

Well, I think

13:36

another part of that whole story

13:38

is again, what we did together,

13:38

we didn't mention that after our

13:42

first year of medical school, we

13:42

actually went to Calcutta,

13:44

India, and we work with street

13:44

children and child laborers. If

13:48

there's a test ground to see if

13:48

a relationship is going to work,

13:51

because you live in a slum in

13:51

India for three months, which is

13:55

what we what we did on railway

13:55

stations. We then later would go

13:59

to Tanzania and work on on

13:59

malaria control HIV control. We

14:05

we also did our thesis together

14:05

on multi drug resistant

14:08

tuberculosis in Peru. So all of

14:08

this kind of built the energy to

14:13

to think about how could you do

14:13

something bigger and population

14:17

health and lead broader

14:17

organizations. And we were both

14:20

blessed to have two amazing

14:20

mentors, Paul Farmer and Jim

14:23

Kim. We're still both close to

14:23

Paul, of course, has recently

14:26

passed away sadly, but they were

14:26

our thesis advisors, our kind of

14:30

support network to navigate the

14:30

whole story. So you know, when

14:34

the opportunity came up to

14:34

actually go with Jim, to, to the

14:39

WHO effort on the antiretroviral

14:39

treatment, where Jim had this

14:44

audacity audacious idea to say

14:44

how could we treat 3 million

14:49

people with antiretrovirals by

14:49

2005 and I had had the

14:53

opportunity during a previous

14:53

summer to work on the first

14:56

antiretroviral treatment program

14:56

in Botswana. And so It was kind

15:00

of an opportunity to dive in.

15:00

And I mean, I look, I think

15:03

throughout this journey, you're gonna find out we didn't really have a plan, we kind of had a

15:05

plan, but it was kind of like,

15:08

let's try this out. But I think

15:08

the overall spirit was how could

15:12

you use leadership combined with

15:12

a deep understanding of medicine

15:15

and public health to have a

15:15

bigger impact? And that's kind

15:18

of what took me to take that

15:18

bet. And, of course, a lot of

15:22

counseling from Srishti to

15:22

ultimately go go in that

15:25

direction.

15:27

Firstly, you ended up

15:27

joining McKinsey, where you

15:29

spent almost two decades Can you

15:29

speak a little bit about that

15:33

decision?

15:34

So

15:34

decision, in a similar vein, so

15:37

this was a time we were in med

15:37

school and 1998 to the early

15:41

2000s, I think we were seeing

15:41

the incredibly negative impact

15:46

of their inability to address

15:46

infectious disease at scale in

15:51

many, many countries around the

15:51

world and sort of the inequity

15:54

and how programs were available

15:54

to populations in Sub Saharan

15:58

Africa, and in India, and how

15:58

HIV AIDS especially but TB,

16:03

malaria, vaccine preventable and

16:03

illness, like they were just it

16:07

was just the lifespans were

16:07

dropping under five mortality

16:10

was really high. And the

16:10

traditional routes to do work in

16:14

this space where you do internal

16:14

medicine, you do infectious

16:18

disease as the fellowship, maybe

16:18

you get lucky, and you get a job

16:21

with the CDC, and then you go

16:21

work on this. But at the same

16:24

time this was happening. The

16:24

world, I think, also recognize

16:28

this incredible inequity and

16:28

global health. And there was a

16:31

tremendous amount of donor

16:31

support and country's support to

16:35

create public private

16:35

partnerships. And really think

16:39

about how do we support

16:39

countries around the world to

16:41

bring up their health outcomes.

16:41

And so this was the Global Fund

16:45

for AIDS, TB, malaria, GAVI

16:45

money was just coming together

16:49

in a way. And I thought to

16:49

myself, if I wait to kind of go

16:53

down the traditional path of

16:53

kind of, it'll be it was the it

16:56

felt too urgent, like I was

16:56

gonna miss it if I didn't start.

16:59

And I had stumbled into the

16:59

presentation, that before

17:02

McKinsey had supported the work

17:02

in Botswana, creating the first

17:05

national treatment and testing

17:05

program in an African country.

17:09

They help pilot a private sector

17:09

program in Uganda. And they had

17:14

come to campus and done a case

17:14

study of presenting how they had

17:17

worked in Uganda with Merck

17:17

Pharmaceuticals, and the Bill

17:20

and Melinda Gates Foundation,

17:20

and the government of Uganda and

17:23

some payers and Uganda to scale

17:23

up this program. And I saw how

17:27

these things were coming

17:27

together. And I said to myself,

17:29

if I do that, I can start

17:29

working on this, too. I can work

17:34

on this. Now, I don't have to

17:34

wait for this to happen. I was

17:37

incredibly uncertain. But if

17:37

anyone here knows Jim Kim, Jim

17:42

Kim was like, you might not be

17:42

competent, but I have enough

17:44

confidence, but the both of us.

17:44

And so he said, just you know,

17:47

you can always come back into

17:47

clinical medicine. But we need

17:50

people who have a social justice

17:50

mindset, who were thinking about

17:53

equity at the tables as we're

17:53

doing this analysis as we're

17:56

bringing these programs

17:56

together. And so that kind of

17:59

cemented. I mean, there was a

17:59

couple of stops along the way I

18:01

delayed graduating, I did the

18:01

Kennedy School degree so that I

18:04

would have more time to

18:04

percolate the decision. But

18:07

eventually, when I graduated med

18:07

school, I transitioned to work

18:10

at McKinsey.

18:12

Absolutely. And when

18:12

you joined McKinsey, you

18:14

eventually became an expert in

18:14

the global health practice

18:17

working on things like vaccines,

18:17

family planning, HIV and AIDS.

18:22

Can you speak to any especially

18:22

impactful projects you worked

18:25

on? While they're,

18:26

of

18:26

course, I was going back to your

18:29

point around the nearly 20 years

18:29

that McKenzie, I think there was

18:34

a lot of false starts. So it

18:34

took me 20 years to figure out

18:36

how to do just do it, do it

18:36

well. So I started off, it

18:39

wasn't going so smoothly. I

18:39

actually spent my first two

18:42

years entirely working in

18:42

pharmaceuticals, because I had

18:44

no idea you don't learn a lot

18:44

about how drugs are developed

18:47

when you go to med school, which

18:47

is a little bit of a gap, I

18:50

think and how we think about

18:50

healthcare. But eventually I did

18:53

become a senior expert in the

18:53

global health practice. And

18:56

there's one project I always

18:56

look back on. Clearly still an

19:00

issue and but something that I

19:00

think is is one of those things

19:04

that really pulls together, how

19:04

healthcare is not just health it

19:08

is all these other factors was

19:08

the two year work I did on

19:11

family planning and safe access

19:11

to family planning around the

19:14

world. And that involved

19:14

thinking about, well, why family

19:19

planning is important is that

19:19

it's one of the drivers for

19:22

economic development and with

19:22

being able to space children

19:25

allows for economic development

19:25

allows for women to be able to

19:28

make choices around how money is

19:28

spent in the household, on

19:31

education, on better food on all

19:31

of these things. And it's hugely

19:35

transformational thing. But just

19:35

having safe access to culturally

19:39

appropriate family planning is

19:39

can be hugely transformational

19:43

for countries. And we worked on

19:43

figuring out how to get 120

19:47

million women on contraception

19:47

of their choice by 2020. And

19:52

that was multilateral

19:52

partnerships financing

19:54

manufacturing of contraception,

19:54

policy changes How patient

20:00

behavior physician behavior

20:00

midwife behavior. How do you

20:03

actually really think about this

20:03

at a global level, but global

20:08

work is really global. And so it

20:08

was it I was in West Africa, I

20:11

was in Indonesia, I was, you

20:11

know, at headquarters that

20:15

differed in the UK. It was

20:15

Angola, it was a lot of it was a

20:19

lot of travel.

20:21

And it's interesting to me that you say that you got a couple of false starts because

20:22

you ended up spending 20 years

20:26

at McKinsey. And in the latter

20:26

decade, you actually

20:29

transitioned to doing diversity,

20:29

inclusion, and global talent

20:33

development work? What inspired

20:33

that transition? And how did it

20:36

impact the longer arc of your

20:36

career?

20:40

Well,

20:40

maybe the answer to the why I

20:43

moved into internal work on

20:43

talent is sort of as two

20:46

answers. One is a little less

20:46

inspiring and more practical.

20:48

And the other is, you know, more

20:48

driven by McKinsey. As I said,

20:53

global work is really global.

20:53

And we had two sons at this

20:56

point. And I was I remember

20:56

being eight months pregnant,

20:59

running around Botswana. I

20:59

remember, you know, leaving the

21:01

boys was bus, you know, they

21:01

were like one in three, I think

21:05

they kind of you know, grew up

21:05

around the neighbor campus

21:07

because we used to live right

21:07

down the street. And it was

21:11

just, it was a lot. I know,

21:11

young families to have, you

21:14

know, just leaving for 10 days

21:14

at a time. And so I needed I

21:18

think, something to pivot for me

21:18

to kind of be more sustainable.

21:21

But when the opportunity came up

21:21

to work on talent, I said to

21:24

myself, Mackenzie's only asset

21:24

is talent, right? Like, it's

21:29

really people, they don't make

21:29

anything they don't make. They

21:31

don't manufacture drugs, they

21:31

don't make T shirts like shape.

21:34

They make incredible people and

21:34

so to work on, how do you retain

21:38

develop, attract incredible

21:38

people to this company is

21:42

actually an something an amazing

21:42

opportunity to work on. And so I

21:47

worked on a range of things in

21:47

the talent space, diversity,

21:50

equity inclusion was a big one.

21:50

I worked on it in Europe, Middle

21:53

East Africa, which is very

21:53

different than in the US, do you

21:55

think about a lot of different

21:55

topics. And then I worked on

21:59

talent programs. Kinsey is an

21:59

incredibly global company, but

22:02

it was really hard to have it

22:02

easily have people have

22:06

experienced in the multi

22:06

markets, there's McKinsey

22:09

offices in 60 countries. But it

22:09

was at the time I took over the

22:12

program, it was really hard to

22:12

move between those 60 countries

22:15

and just get experience on that.

22:15

I worked on alumni, I worked on

22:19

a lot of issues related to women

22:19

and on how we retain and develop

22:23

women. And I think that part

22:23

came from my own experience as a

22:27

working mom, and just not having

22:27

this was pre COVID, where, you

22:31

know, people didn't have so much

22:31

insight as to what your home

22:34

life was like and what you

22:34

needed to balance. And there was

22:37

a very high expectation that you

22:37

would turn up at the office. So

22:40

there was a very high expectation that you would be able to drop things on a diamond

22:42

travel. And so for me, it was

22:46

really saying, we are losing so

22:46

many people at the manager

22:49

level, especially women or young

22:49

parents, how do we figure out

22:53

how to adapt our way of work so

22:53

that we can retain these people.

22:56

And now as a board member, I

22:56

feel like I go back to topics of

23:01

talent, more than I go to any

23:01

other topic. It's like

23:04

compensation, retention. What

23:04

are our work policies? How do we

23:08

do pay for performance? How do

23:08

we bring a go our human capital

23:12

strategies at the companies that

23:12

I'm at it is one of the things I

23:15

feel like was such a gift to be

23:15

able to work on?

23:18

Absolutely. I appreciate you, underscoring the fact that this has become a

23:20

bigger part of the conversation

23:23

since COVID. The competing

23:23

demands of work and family that

23:26

fall on families, not just in

23:26

the US but around the world.

23:30

Vasa in your case, you were

23:30

building your career at

23:33

Novartis, which has been quite

23:33

diverse and included many quick

23:37

pivots, you led vaccines and

23:37

diagnostics in the US moved to

23:41

Germany to lead Novartis as

23:41

biopharmaceuticals division, and

23:45

then move to Basel, Switzerland,

23:45

where you both live now to lead

23:48

global drug development before

23:48

becoming CEO. How did you

23:52

navigate all those changes? And

23:52

did you ever actually envision

23:55

yourself in the role of CEO

23:57

I like to always

23:57

am an accidental CEO, I was

23:59

never an intention to be the

23:59

CEO. And every one of those

24:03

moves was a constellation of

24:03

factors, a lot of unexpected

24:09

twists and turns. I would also

24:09

say that the only way that was

24:12

all enabled because of Christy's

24:12

incredible flexibility and

24:16

ability to keep our family

24:16

working in the right direction,

24:19

despite us both having working

24:19

careers. Yeah, but it was

24:23

interesting and certainly moving

24:23

to the vaccine was an

24:26

interesting first move, and one

24:26

I would really highlight because

24:29

vaccines at Novartis at the time

24:29

was a small nonprofit biteable

24:34

division almost like a like no

24:34

one even knew like Novartis had

24:37

a vaccines business. But for me

24:37

as a public health physician,

24:40

somebody really was passionate

24:40

about public health. It was like

24:43

sweetspot come here, actually

24:43

worked on Sydney Street for

24:46

those of you who lived in

24:46

Cambridge, longtime my office

24:49

was above the Asgard I had like

24:49

a little desk. I later went down

24:53

to 75 Sydney street I had an

24:53

office, a desk in a hallway

24:57

because we couldn't afford any

24:57

more space. They just gave us

25:00

best in a hallway. And that was

25:00

ahead of drug or vaccine

25:04

development at that point. But

25:04

it was an incredible time for

25:07

those eight years to really just

25:07

work on developing vaccines for

25:10

children developing vaccines for

25:10

the world, we will be able to

25:14

produce things 700 million

25:14

vaccine and discovering new

25:17

vaccines, whether it was for

25:17

meningitis and children. So

25:20

children in the United States

25:20

now get the vaccine that we

25:23

develop, and around the world.

25:23

Also responding to a pandemic

25:27

2009, I led the age one and one

25:27

swine flu response to the

25:31

pandemic. So that whole

25:31

experience of vaccine was really

25:34

amazing, and galvanizing. But

25:34

then there was this interview,

25:38

probably remember, it was crazy

25:38

year that we had as a as a

25:42

family. We were living over here

25:42

on 120 Cherry Street, but those

25:46

of you know, the brother or two

25:46

cheeses, just like up the road

25:49

from there. And we decided after

25:49

much thought I was I was really

25:53

convinced Novartis was committed

25:53

to vaccine, let's buy a house.

25:58

We went and we bought a house in

25:58

Brookline, we renovated did all

26:02

of that stuff. And as soon as we

26:02

bought the house, Novartis

26:04

announced are going to sell the

26:04

vaccines, very predictable, to

26:08

GSK. Over the next year, we

26:08

didn't know who they were going

26:12

to sell it for. And I didn't

26:12

actually know what my next role

26:15

at Novartis would be, I had to

26:15

help lead the process for GSK to

26:21

for all the companies to

26:21

evaluate whether they're part of

26:23

the vaccine business. And we

26:23

were getting to the month of

26:27

finally was march towards the

26:27

end of March, we didn't know

26:29

what was going to happen, that I

26:29

need to go like find a job. I

26:32

started kind of interviewing

26:32

here in the Kendall Square area.

26:35

And then our then CEO, Joe

26:35

demandez, called and said, Look,

26:38

I've got a great opportunity,

26:38

you're gonna go to Munich, and

26:41

you're going to work in generics

26:41

and biosimilars, right, which

26:44

was definitely not in the plan,

26:44

in any way, shape, or form. And

26:49

we picked up when we went,

26:49

right. I picked up and finish

26:54

the school year, you had to

26:54

finish quickly. So the kids and

26:56

Christy stayed here, I went back

26:56

and forth. Finally, we got the

27:00

kids over in June, be out of

27:00

place, we had them enrolled in

27:04

school, I remember we were

27:04

sitting out it was a sunny day

27:06

in Munich at the apartment. And

27:06

we found we found there, I get

27:10

another call from Japan as and

27:10

he said, Look, I know we just

27:13

moved to Munich, we can get all

27:13

of your stuff to Basel, but I

27:16

need you to take a different job

27:16

running drug development for all

27:19

of Novartis, you need to move to

27:19

Basel. And so that was a funny

27:23

day, right? And because we had to figure out how

27:27

to talk about every

27:27

move, that was like

27:29

the third or

27:29

fourth job that year, and then

27:32

we got moved to Tibet. And then

27:32

of course, that that was

27:34

critical move, because in that

27:34

year, all of those changes, I

27:37

ended up running drug

27:37

development, which then I think

27:40

led me ultimately become CEO.

27:40

But it was all serendipitous

27:44

things that happened that year

27:44

because people left and various

27:47

things that happen. And we ended

27:47

up having to move to four

27:51

different houses in a six month

27:51

or seven month period of time

27:55

with three little kids. But we

27:55

figured it out.

27:59

And did you ever

27:59

envision yourself in the role of

28:01

CEO

28:02

I still remember

28:02

it was early 2017, when our then

28:06

beef human resources officer

28:06

called me up and said, Look,

28:09

we're starting a new process to

28:09

evaluate who could be the next

28:14

CEO of Novartis, we'd like you

28:14

to be participated. My first

28:17

reaction was why, like, why

28:17

would you want me I mean, I'm a

28:20

running drug development, I'd

28:20

spent four or five years coming

28:24

to this building every one once

28:24

a month, once every two months.

28:28

Actually, sometimes we before

28:28

this building was completed, it

28:30

was also over on the other side,

28:30

that was very confused, because

28:33

I'm a non traditional profile. I

28:33

mean, most biopharmaceutical

28:37

companies tend to choose people

28:37

from the commercial side, not

28:40

the r&d side of things. But in

28:40

the end, they did a bunch of

28:43

evaluations and whoever the

28:43

people are, did evaluations

28:46

thought that I would be would be

28:46

good at this. So that's how

28:50

that's all how it went down. It

28:50

was certainly not in the plan.

28:53

The meeting was in Dublin, I think it was in a middle seat on air,

28:54

Dublin. And he had presented and

29:01

then he got a call on his phone

29:01

as they were about to take off.

29:04

And they were like, We wanted

29:04

you to know that we have decided

29:07

as support that you will be the

29:07

next CEO. He's in the middle

29:10

seat. He calls me and I want to

29:10

call for work. And I'm like, Can

29:13

I Can I call you back? I'm just

29:13

not at work. I didn't even know

29:19

that. He's like, I just got this

29:19

like no, we he was totally

29:23

floored.

29:23

It was easy. It

29:23

was easy. In the middle seat.

29:27

I'll never forgot middle seat

29:27

and Easyjet and you've just been

29:30

told you're going to become CEO

29:30

of Novartis. That's one of those

29:33

and your wife put you on hold my

29:33

wife put me on hold. She's like,

29:37

I can't talk to you right now.

29:37

That was one of those moments.

29:40

Oh, I love that. So

29:40

you were appointed CEO in 2018.

29:44

And over the last five years,

29:44

you've taken Novartis on quite a

29:47

journey. Can you speak to your

29:47

vision for the company on day

29:50

one and how the company and

29:50

strategy has changed over that

29:53

time period?

29:54

Yeah, and it's

29:54

been bumpy I have to say because

29:56

I told me things you can't

29:56

predict when you when you become

30:00

I'm the CEO but always division

30:00

was up did we do what we're best

30:03

at which is really focused on

30:03

what this building is all about

30:07

making fundamental discoveries

30:07

in science to translate into

30:10

breakthrough medicines and be

30:10

focused on medicines at the

30:12

time. We were a conglomerate.

30:12

And our history over the past

30:15

century had largely been to be a

30:15

conglomerate. So we wanted to

30:19

disassemble that and really, you

30:19

know, really get to the core.

30:22

But that was turned out to be

30:22

easier said than done, it took.

30:25

In the end, it's still not done.

30:25

I hope that the Sandoz spin

30:28

later this year, will complete

30:28

the journey. It's over $100

30:31

billion of transactions, but we,

30:31

we spun off the Alcon business,

30:35

we sold our consumer health

30:35

business, we exited our row

30:38

stake now we'll soon spin off

30:38

Sandoz. And we'll end up being

30:41

at this core. And I think that

30:41

that is the right way for

30:46

Novartis to really have the

30:46

biggest impact we can, because

30:49

then it allows us to focus on

30:49

new technologies that impact

30:52

human health and things like

30:52

cell and gene therapies, or RNA

30:55

therapeutics, and all the great

30:55

things that that happened here.

30:59

But I you know, I would also say

30:59

there's, I mean, the journey of

31:01

a CEO and there's no way to

31:01

learn it until you go through it

31:05

is one of just tremendous

31:05

perseverance, me of you have

31:08

huge setback things. I mean, I

31:08

think the huge success story

31:12

we've had as a cultural transformation, which I'm really, really proud of. But the

31:14

business journey, the twists and

31:18

turns things just don't go your

31:18

way. And of course, as a CEO,

31:22

your mistakes are in the

31:22

spotlight, right? The media, the

31:25

investors, your board,

31:25

everything is under a

31:28

microscope. And so to build a

31:28

psychological this is like, I

31:32

think it's as much a physical

31:32

test, but it's really a

31:35

psychological test. I mean, can

31:35

you find enough conviction on

31:39

the mission of the work you're

31:39

doing to be able to withstand

31:42

all of those forces. And I think

31:42

for many CEOs, it makes them

31:46

just go into a box, right? You

31:46

just closed down, like, you

31:48

don't want to be open. And or

31:48

you go the route to say, look,

31:54

it's a complex world, you're

31:54

going to make mistakes, we're

31:56

all imperfect, and take more of

31:56

the humanistic route to be kind

31:59

to yourself, say, I'm going to

31:59

learn, I'm going to make a lot

32:02

of mistakes. But as long as

32:02

we're heading in the right

32:04

direction, that's okay. That's

32:04

okay.

32:07

I want to come back

32:07

and spend a second on setbacks

32:10

and how you both have managed

32:10

and surmounted those. But I want

32:14

to spend also a second honestly,

32:14

your experience in board

32:17

service, because you also have a

32:17

unique vantage point, with a

32:21

different lens, looking in at

32:21

what it means to be the CEO of a

32:24

company working with an

32:24

answering to a board, you've

32:27

spent time on the board of the

32:27

North Skin Foundation, which is

32:31

an ecosystem for impact

32:31

entrepreneurs, as well as Dorsia

32:34

pharmaceuticals, a huge biotech

32:34

company, can you speak to what

32:38

you've learned about the state

32:38

of biotech, and also what you've

32:42

generally learned about

32:42

corporate governance, broadly

32:45

speaking,

32:47

biotech, I mean, I think this is one thing we share, though we come

32:48

at it from very different

32:50

angles, it is incredibly hard to

32:50

meet unmet needs for patients.

32:57

And what I mean by that is, is a

32:57

couple things, I mean, first and

33:01

first talks really eloquently

33:01

about this sometimes, and

33:03

LinkedIn and other places, just

33:03

unwinding the complexity of

33:08

cells, that you have a medicine

33:08

that you can hold in your hand,

33:11

that is able to do something

33:11

that affects the human body. So

33:14

what is clinical success? Right,

33:14

you have to meet unmet need by

33:17

having some degree of scientific

33:17

or clinical success. And that

33:20

itself is like this giant hurdle

33:20

that you do. Then there's the

33:24

second hurdle that you know, for

33:24

very good reasons. We have

33:27

regulations around the world

33:27

that say we we want to know why

33:31

you think this thing will work.

33:31

Where's the data? How do we know

33:34

that this is the right thing for

33:34

mass population, so you have to

33:37

have a regulatory success to get

33:37

something to meet an unmet need.

33:41

And then lastly, you have to

33:41

have people use it patients,

33:44

physicians, payers, there has to

33:44

be some sort of market success.

33:48

So we're, somebody's willing to

33:48

pay for it, people are willing

33:51

to prescribe it, a patient's

33:51

willing to put it in their body.

33:54

And that's a whole other layer

33:54

of context and culturally

33:58

specific things that need to

33:58

happen. And as you add on layers

34:02

and layers of these three levels

34:02

of success, it is actually

34:05

incredibly hard to do this. And

34:05

unlike other industries, this is

34:10

not a fail fast. And, you know,

34:10

and cheaply. This is not break

34:15

things and do like that's one

34:15

thing on the biotech boards and

34:18

having people who are in

34:18

healthcare really understand is

34:21

that it takes a lot of time to

34:21

do these things. It takes a lot

34:24

of money, unfortunately, to do

34:24

these things. And if you're

34:27

really committed to going

34:27

through these levels, to meet an

34:30

unmet need, you can get there

34:30

but you know, it there's a lot

34:35

of drop off along the way as

34:35

like that happens. And it's some

34:38

of it is completely out of your

34:38

control, too. It can just be

34:42

payers are not interested in

34:42

having something that does,

34:44

whatever you've decided is is is

34:44

interesting, or meets an unmet

34:48

need. That I think is like the

34:48

biggest one of the steepest

34:51

learning curves I've had in the

34:51

biotech industry is just how

34:54

incredibly hard it is to make

34:54

progress on innovation and

34:58

patient and Then in terms of the

34:58

governance, I have to say one of

35:03

the things that's changed a lot

35:03

since I started serving on

35:05

boards three years ago is just,

35:05

you know, the back and forth,

35:09

you know, why would a board do

35:09

this? And I'm like, Well, you

35:11

know, we're actually like supposed to do this

35:13

is my counselor.

35:13

Why would they do this?

35:16

So we've had a lot of things to talk about in terms of like,

35:18

well, how would you feel if we

35:20

did this, and he's like, that's

35:20

not manage it. That's

35:23

management's responsibility to

35:23

board work is incredibly hard

35:26

work. I know a lot of people are

35:26

really excited about it. And I

35:28

think it's a great, it's, it's a

35:28

great avenue to have impact. But

35:33

it's incredibly hard work.

35:33

Because you're trying to you're

35:35

not in the day to day, you're at

35:35

a different level, but you're

35:38

trying to provide steer, you're

35:38

trying to see risk you're trying

35:41

to see around corners, but you

35:41

don't have the vantage point. So

35:44

it requires a tremendous number

35:44

of soft skills to be able to

35:48

navigate and sort of work on a

35:48

how do you influence decision

35:51

making, when you don't have the

35:51

ability to say I'm in there all

35:55

the time, you have a lot less

35:55

information? Do you have to make

35:58

decisions on a lot less

35:58

information than maybe you're

36:01

used to? And it just requires a

36:01

lot of patience and care. People

36:05

think, Oh, it's a great job, you

36:05

meet five times a year, and

36:08

that's about it. But I mean,

36:08

you're talking to people

36:11

constantly and just trying to

36:11

understand and try to be helpful

36:14

in a lot of ways in between

36:14

those conversations. But it's,

36:19

it is a great way to have

36:19

impact, but it's actually quite

36:22

challenging. And it requires a

36:22

lot of self restraint.

36:25

Sometimes, I can imagine.

36:27

And to your point, and even the earlier conversation we've had about the

36:28

work you've done in talent,

36:31

particularly as it relates to

36:31

women. Women are historically

36:34

underrepresented on boards. What

36:34

advice do you have for women in

36:38

this space who want to navigate

36:38

the path toward leadership?

36:42

I have

36:42

been benefited tremendously.

36:45

There's a handful of resources

36:45

out there, which I think have

36:48

been amazing. I think him for

36:48

her is a great resource. They

36:51

have a lot of free webinars on

36:51

just very practical things like

36:54

how do you write your board bio?

36:54

How do you get feedback on it?

36:58

The National Association of

36:58

Corporate Directors in the US

37:01

has taken sort of the idea of

37:01

board work and said there's a

37:03

curriculum like you need to know

37:03

what is the legal basis for

37:06

board work? Why is there a legal

37:06

case against board directors?

37:09

What does that look like? What

37:09

does fiduciary responsibility

37:12

actually mean? If you're

37:12

interested in going in direction

37:15

of board work, I highly

37:15

recommend just getting started

37:18

on a lot of those things through

37:18

a lot of those resources that

37:21

are available. And then I think

37:21

the other couple of things are,

37:26

let people know you're

37:26

interested in board work, and

37:29

then find other women or find

37:29

other people that are also

37:31

interested in and talk each

37:31

other up. Right? This is an

37:34

entirely networked community.

37:34

And if you talk to each other

37:37

up, and you're kind of this is

37:37

not a good fit for me, but it

37:40

could be for you. And it

37:40

elevates the conversation around

37:44

each other's brands. And I think

37:44

that can have a tremendous

37:46

amount of impact. And if there

37:46

are women out there who actually

37:49

are on boards right now, I think

37:49

one of the biggest routes to

37:54

having influence is through the

37:54

nominations committee. So if

37:57

you're about to join a board, or

37:57

you have some choices on boards,

38:01

try to get yourself on the

38:01

nominations committee, because

38:03

that is the route by which new

38:03

members come in board. And if

38:07

you can bring your perspective

38:07

and your voice into the

38:09

nominations committee, I think

38:09

that is it will do service to

38:12

the entire group of people who

38:12

are underrepresented on boards.

38:15

I'm certainly appreciate you sharing all those resources. Now, it seems like

38:17

the motif in both your careers

38:22

to the point of you being able

38:22

to coach each other in various

38:24

aspects, even as it relates to

38:24

board service, is because you

38:27

have a lot of shared interests

38:27

and one of the most prominent

38:30

ones being global health equity.

38:30

You both have spent a lot of

38:33

time working in countries around

38:33

the world on how policy issues

38:37

medical issues. What do you both

38:37

see as sort of the key

38:40

priorities in Global Health

38:40

Equity today. And I'm curious

38:43

how your identities as South

38:43

Asians has impacted that

38:46

perspective as well.

38:49

I think I think

38:49

global health has evolved a lot

38:51

and will always continue to

38:51

evolve. But I think when you go

38:54

back in, you know, the most of

38:54

the last century, it was really

38:58

tackling infectious disease at

38:58

scale. And I think we've done

39:03

remarkable things on that.

39:03

Certainly the vaccines industry

39:06

and the ability to bring so many

39:06

powerful vaccines to tackle many

39:10

of the key infectious diseases

39:10

has been hugely, hugely

39:12

successful. Our ability and

39:12

Novartis being one of the real

39:15

pioneers on this front of having

39:15

highly effective antimalarials

39:19

having antiretrovirals that can

39:19

largely make HIV into a chronic

39:23

disease treat pregnant women

39:23

Peri partum to reduce maternal

39:28

fetal transmission. So many

39:28

great interventions have slowly

39:31

brought down I think the

39:31

infectious disease burden still

39:34

a lot to do. I think Novartis is

39:34

great at this or we are Unit

39:38

here at neighbor that discovers

39:38

new infectious new medicines for

39:42

infectious disease. It's truly

39:42

truly extraordinary. But now I

39:46

think the chapter turns to

39:46

chronic disease and how will we

39:50

bring the next wave of

39:50

innovations to really tackle

39:52

chronic disease when we go with

39:52

our family to see clinics in

39:57

Tanzania or Rwanda or recent

39:57

trips to Ghana, one thing that

40:01

strikes you is that if things

40:01

continue as they are the burden

40:05

of hypertension, obesity,

40:05

diabetes, ultimately leading to

40:09

the consequences, they normally

40:09

lead to these how healthcare

40:12

systems just simply cannot

40:12

handle it. I mean, it will be

40:15

crushing. If you just look at

40:15

little metrics, like the

40:18

capacity to do renal dialysis or

40:18

manage strokes, I mean, it's

40:22

very, very low of the the levels

40:22

of hypertension you have in

40:25

these countries. So I think now

40:25

the next chapter on global

40:28

health is how do we tackle

40:28

chronic disease at scale. But

40:32

what I'm excited about is, some

40:32

of that is just getting the

40:34

basics right investment

40:34

infrastructure. But I personally

40:38

think we have the power of next

40:38

generation technologies, again,

40:41

like what we do here, and one of

40:41

the ones I'm very excited about

40:44

and deliver folks know this well

40:44

who are here in the audience is

40:48

look with small interfering

40:48

RNAs, we can give medicines to

40:52

treat hypertension, or

40:52

hypercholesterolemia extremely

40:55

infrequently. So you're no

40:55

longer asking a patient in rural

40:59

Tanzania or rural Ghana, to go

40:59

to the hospital every month to

41:03

refill their prescriptions,

41:03

sometimes four or five hours,

41:06

instead of a single injection

41:06

would knock down cholesterol or

41:10

hypertension dramatically. And

41:10

so that's where it's really

41:13

interesting to show how you

41:13

know, the work we do on the

41:15

cutting edge of

41:15

biopharmaceutical science, but

41:18

ultimately have massive public

41:18

health impact on chronic disease

41:21

and help us hopefully leapfrog

41:21

the whole challenge of

41:24

compliance and diagnosis of

41:24

chronic diseases. But this is

41:28

the next challenge. And it just

41:28

it is coming like a tsunami if

41:32

we don't if we don't get ahead of it.

41:34

It

41:34

just to add to that. I mean,

41:37

ultimately, for us, global

41:37

health equity has been about

41:40

challenging the belief that some

41:40

man lives matter less. And, you

41:44

know, it's seeing companies that

41:44

are as committed to making sure

41:47

that interventions and

41:47

technologies are available to

41:51

all populations globally as

41:51

quickly as possible, instead of

41:54

saying these are available in

41:54

the US or Europe or Japan, and

41:58

then we'll start thinking about

41:58

other market, like just trying

42:01

to reduce the time that things

42:01

take time it takes to get

42:05

interventions to the broadest

42:05

set of populations. And then to

42:08

versus point around things like

42:08

small interfering RNA, we have

42:13

this ability to kind of not

42:13

necessarily go stepwise through

42:17

how things worked in in the US

42:17

healthcare system or the

42:21

European healthcare system, we

42:21

have this ability to leapfrog.

42:24

And so how do we actually

42:24

incorporate patient experience,

42:27

their ability to be and then

42:27

health centers that may not be

42:30

that that that close by in order

42:30

to incorporate that into how we

42:36

design actual products to use

42:36

and to have these interventions.

42:40

So as we take this lens into our

42:40

work, it might work in biotech,

42:43

or your work and kind of

42:43

thinking about a large portfolio

42:46

of products. It's really about

42:46

saying we have to keep always

42:49

challenged the belief that some

42:49

matters lives matter less,

42:52

because that's that that's how

42:52

we'll address equity issues.

42:56

And maybe see me coming back to your question on the South Asian element of this.

42:57

I mean, one of the striking

43:01

things is, on the one hand, for

43:01

instance, at Novartis, we have

43:04

10,000 people in the US our

43:04

second largest center for

43:07

Novartis as a company in

43:07

Hyderabad. I mean, it is a huge,

43:10

huge part of the success of our

43:10

company. And yet the Indian

43:14

pharmaceutical market in the

43:14

Indian healthcare system is

43:17

still very much a story of low

43:17

income diseases. It's still very

43:22

much the challenge of high rates

43:22

of diseases like malaria. I

43:26

mean, most of the Novartis

43:26

donates the global supply of

43:29

leprosy medicines, most of that

43:29

goes to India. Interestingly,

43:34

you know, what do you have a

43:34

major global effort to tackle

43:36

sickle cell disease, I didn't

43:36

know this until we really got

43:39

into producing the various

43:39

medicines to give the basics for

43:43

sickle cell disease, a

43:43

hydroxyurea antibiotic, the

43:47

highest number of sickle cell

43:47

patients in the world is in

43:49

India. And so there's a lot of

43:49

things we can do to hopefully

43:54

move the needle on that front.

43:54

But certainly a lot to do.

43:58

I want to double click on that, because you obviously are the CEO of a

44:00

company that has a presence in

44:03

140 countries. And to the point

44:03

that both of you are making

44:07

healthcare is very different

44:07

when you're working in diverse

44:10

market contexts. What have been

44:10

your key learnings and takeaways

44:14

about what it means to lead

44:14

globally?

44:19

I think, well,

44:19

one, one of the first things you

44:22

learn early on as a CEO is you

44:22

control a lot less than people

44:26

think you control. You know, you

44:26

can set a direction, you can set

44:30

a context so you can hopefully

44:30

inspire. But man some of the

44:34

things I've learned. It's I

44:34

mean, I think these are basic

44:37

principles that leaders have to

44:37

always remember the number one

44:40

job of a leader is to multiply

44:40

the energy of your people. And

44:45

you have to have the energy to

44:45

give energy and the idea is can

44:49

through your presence or the

44:49

ideas you convey. And you

44:53

multiply the energy of the

44:53

people by making them extremely

44:56

tied to the mission. Being a man

44:56

I think you have to ultimately

45:00

answer the question, why do we

45:00

do the work over and over again?

45:04

In generally that answer is

45:04

across cultures, right?

45:08

reimagining medicine to extend

45:08

and improve patients lives,

45:11

which is our Novartis story and

45:11

a single sentence, that that

45:16

motivates somebody from

45:16

Australia, to South Africa, to

45:19

Argentina to the US. And so you

45:19

have to be able to articulate

45:23

that vision, get people

45:23

energized, and multiply the

45:26

energy of the people. I think

45:26

the second thing I learned about

45:29

right leaning in such a big

45:29

global organization is the

45:31

consistency of the message, have

45:31

simple, consistent messages. So

45:36

I've learned like, we're not

45:36

going to change the words, we're

45:38

just going to keep saying the

45:38

same thing. Because to get

45:41

through 105,000 people in 140

45:41

countries takes years. And if

45:46

you start getting bored and say,

45:46

You know what, maybe, you know,

45:49

maybe we switch from reimagined

45:49

to reignite or whatever, then

45:54

the whole company loses the

45:54

plot, right? So I think I think

45:58

you have to really stay

45:58

consistent, simple messages

46:01

consistently, over time. And

46:01

then I mean, I think in the end,

46:06

you have to pay a lot of

46:06

attention to culture. And in the

46:09

human element, I mean, we think

46:09

about trying to get a humanistic

46:12

culture at Novartis. In the end,

46:12

Novartis is just a word, right?

46:15

We're 100,000 people trying to

46:15

do something good for the world.

46:18

And you have to bind people

46:18

together by a common set of

46:22

beliefs and norms and values

46:22

that hopefully carries the

46:25

organization forward.

46:27

I love that. And I

46:27

love the piece where for you

46:29

semantics is not really

46:29

semantics, it goes a long way.

46:34

Both of you, as we talked about

46:34

earlier, have based your share

46:37

of setbacks in your careers, and

46:37

I'm curious what you've done to

46:41

be able to cope with them and

46:41

surmount them, and what

46:43

practices you have, even on a

46:43

daily basis that have helped

46:46

push you through even the toughest of time.

46:50

I

46:50

think a big one for me is I

46:53

think I said it earlier, it's

46:53

understanding what you actually

46:56

control and what you don't

46:56

control of, and doing a lot of

47:00

yoga, and mindfulness, I have a

47:00

daily yoga practice twice a day.

47:06

i It's like one of those, it's

47:06

like a coping mechanism. It's a

47:09

reminder of equanimity, like you

47:09

want to approach things as they

47:12

are, not as they should be, or

47:12

as you want them to be. And when

47:17

you can sort of step back and

47:17

see things as they are, you

47:20

really can appreciate, you know,

47:20

your ability to control that,

47:23

you know, you can't control the

47:23

outcome. But what you can

47:26

control is the energy you put in

47:26

or the passion you put in for

47:30

the curiosity, you approach that

47:30

with the kindness that you

47:32

approach that with. And I think

47:32

that has been a big one for me

47:36

over the years and really

47:36

understanding you know, when

47:38

things go well, and things don't

47:38

go well, it's it's really just

47:41

appreciating that you don't

47:41

actually control the outcome at

47:44

all.

47:45

So I have a

47:45

whole whole spiel on this. I

47:48

want to take you through all of

47:48

it. But you know that I really

47:50

believe daily practices are

47:50

super, super, super important. I

47:55

learned from a coach long ago,

47:55

and I continue to practice and

47:58

continue to work with that

47:58

coach, mindset, movement,

48:01

nutrition and recovery. Mindset

48:01

is stories, you tell yourself,

48:07

so and you really, as Christie

48:07

said, Get really outstanding at

48:11

looking at your own thoughts and

48:11

emotions and understanding how

48:13

you can reframe whether that's

48:13

meditation, whether that's yoga,

48:17

whether that's breathing

48:17

practices, but I think you can

48:20

control your thoughts. And you

48:20

can control how you perceive the

48:23

world, if you can become the Get

48:23

get that sort of awareness.

48:27

Nutrition clearly has a huge

48:27

impact on performance, energy.

48:31

Movement, literally exercise is

48:31

one of the highest correlations

48:35

with happiness, no matter which

48:35

study you look at in the long

48:38

run. And then recovery. I'm a

48:38

big believer in sleep, I think

48:41

you have to sleep seven, eight

48:41

hours, people have to take their

48:44

vacations. Because in the end,

48:44

your ability to have that energy

48:47

to make the right decisions. All

48:47

of those those those little

48:50

things matter. And so I think

48:50

that's that's a big part of it.

48:54

I think the other thing we don't

48:54

talk enough about is just asking

48:56

for help. I mean, I have two

48:56

coaches, and Srishti, who's my

49:00

lead coach, I've had three

49:00

coaches, right? Even my son,

49:04

sigh, he's also a coach, right?

49:04

If you need you need, you need

49:08

to be able to ask for help.

49:08

Because these are these are

49:10

tough things that all of us have

49:10

to go through. And I think when

49:14

people go through those things

49:14

alone, it's just so much so much

49:17

harder. And I think humans are

49:17

social beings are apes. We want

49:21

to actually convey talk and work

49:21

through those emotions. And I

49:26

think that's something we can really encourage people to do a lot more of. Absolutely. I

49:30

love that. And I

49:30

think what's interesting is it's

49:32

clear the ways in which you both

49:32

have helped each other through

49:35

the course of your careers. And

49:35

I'm curious, I mean, both of you

49:39

have been rising and hustling

49:39

for the better part of 25 years,

49:43

but I imagine it hasn't been

49:43

easy supporting each other

49:46

through moves across the world

49:46

career changes, while also

49:50

building a family and supporting

49:50

each other's individual

49:53

aspirations. Can you speak a

49:53

little bit about how you've done

49:56

that, especially in a world

49:56

where I think there's a bigger

49:59

conversation Shouldn't that's

49:59

about how can we do it all.

50:04

When I

50:04

was in the first grade, my

50:06

parents went to this like parent

50:06

teacher conference, they went to

50:09

school and they sat at my desk.

50:09

And then the next day, I

50:12

remember like going to my desk

50:12

and I opened up my desk, this

50:15

wooden desk, and I had this note

50:15

from my dad. And he's like, I'm

50:18

so proud of how organized you

50:18

are, I still I think I still

50:20

have it. And I honestly like

50:20

organization is one of those

50:24

things that's helped us

50:24

navigate, like, I'm hyper

50:26

organized. We have a whiteboard

50:26

in our kitchen, it feels like a

50:29

team room for like McKinsey. So

50:29

I am very hyper, it's like

50:34

project management is like my

50:34

superpower, which I think

50:37

coupled with one of us is super

50:37

powers, which is being able to

50:40

say what's important and what's

50:40

not important, because like, he

50:43

can cut off half a list of

50:43

things like when all of a sudden

50:46

he's like, trivial. That's like

50:46

that's not relevant right now.

50:49

It's helped us navigate a lot of

50:49

this, like, sort of logistical

50:52

complexity. And I mean, we talk

50:52

a lot like we have we just

50:57

anytime like something comes up,

50:57

we just are like, we just talk

50:59

it out, like we, you know, we're

50:59

like we have to, we have to be

51:02

in two different cities. And the

51:02

kids have to be in another third

51:05

city, like, what are we supposed

51:05

to do? How do we work this out?

51:07

We kind of do that. I think the

51:07

one thing I would say is, none

51:11

of this was pre planned to, like

51:11

we didn't know, like, this is

51:14

how we were going to navigate

51:14

any of this. Like we didn't even

51:16

know the complexity our lives

51:16

were gonna take at the time we

51:18

got together. So I wouldn't get

51:18

bogged down and kind of, you

51:21

know, analysis paralysis of sort

51:21

of saying, Okay, this is how

51:25

we're going to prepare for these

51:25

things. I think, for me, it's

51:28

just been if you make a good

51:28

decision, and your partner, and

51:32

you can just trust that you'll

51:32

be able to work it out, like

51:34

every single time something

51:34

comes up, because you're never

51:36

going to prepare for every scenario.

51:39

You know, things

51:39

I would add is, look, I mean, I

51:41

married my best friend. So that

51:41

actually helps helps a lot,

51:44

right to actually work through

51:44

all all of all of these

51:47

different topics. I also think

51:47

we added a lot of shared shared

51:50

values, I mean, that our parents

51:50

and grandparents ultimately

51:53

instilled in us that kids are

51:53

paramount. So for Sian Kabir, we

51:58

drop everything, whatever it is

51:58

that we're doing. So that's our

52:02

top always family top top top

52:02

priority. Trustee says family

52:07

Novartis, Novartis is usually

52:07

sometimes said she doesn't like

52:10

it when it's Novartis and of

52:10

artists family sometimes. So she

52:13

rightfully calls that out. But I

52:13

think that that that that belief

52:17

is really, really important, I

52:17

think a common belief that it's

52:20

about impact we're having on the

52:20

world, what are the right things

52:23

to do? Not a materialism or a

52:23

kind of a attachment to material

52:30

things. I mean, like we still

52:30

live in that same house that I

52:34

told you, we told you about

52:34

earlier in the story. And we

52:37

still like eat at the same like

52:37

Anna's taqueria and like the has

52:42

no fancy restaurants, the

52:42

furnitures the same, everything

52:45

is exactly the same. Except the

52:45

desk isn't in the hallway.

52:48

Exactly. The desk is not in the

52:48

hallway anymore. Yeah, so I

52:52

think staying grounded and

52:52

having a belief that being

52:54

grounded is ultimately the right

52:54

thing to do. I think a lot of

52:57

those values are important to

52:57

have a common understanding of

53:01

and then you can navigate all

53:01

the ups and downs, twists and

53:04

turns. But

53:05

I love that. I have

53:05

one last question for you both.

53:08

But before I ask it, I'm going

53:08

to turn it over to our audience

53:12

for an audience q&a. So feel

53:12

free to raise your hand if you

53:16

have a question. We have one

53:16

back there.

53:19

truly

53:19

inspirational speech today. So

53:23

thank you so much for it. I

53:23

wanted to ask you, it seems like

53:27

in the world at large, at least

53:27

in the United States, there are

53:31

a lot of Indian CEOs that are

53:31

there. And every time I hear

53:35

many of them speak, it certainly

53:35

appears that their grounding in

53:39

the Bhagavad Gita comes up a

53:39

lot. And their grounding in

53:42

their traditions comes up a lot.

53:42

So what advice would you have

53:45

for youngsters, young Indian

53:45

Americans growing up? How could

53:49

they keep in touch with their

53:49

culture? And should they as they

53:53

go along? And that was one

53:53

question. I'll ask a second one.

53:55

I work for a nonprofit called

53:55

Akel, which works when very

53:59

rural, remote areas in India.

53:59

I'm hearing that diabetes is

54:03

becoming the next big thing in

54:03

South Asia, I heard hypertension

54:07

you're talking about? So again,

54:07

in my own villages, I'm seeing

54:11

it. I didn't know if you have

54:11

suggestions on how we might go

54:14

about tackling that. Thank you so much.

54:16

Yeah,

54:16

absolutely. So you know, the

54:20

first question was the young

54:20

people, oh, the young people. So

54:23

yeah, you know, I think one of

54:23

the things that's interesting

54:27

about this day and age with all

54:27

of the technology social media

54:31

is, of course, it's harder to

54:31

sometimes make, I think ancient

54:35

bot and religion relevant. But

54:35

if I if I really were to ask

54:40

myself, what really helped me

54:40

ground in whether it's in

54:44

leadership or ways of thinking,

54:44

it's mostly ancient texts, I

54:47

mean, the books leadership, my

54:47

two favorite leadership books

54:50

are the Bhagavad Gita. And the

54:50

doubt a Ching, I think are the

54:53

two best leadership books. And

54:53

they're both basically odes to

54:57

servant leadership, which is

54:57

well all we talk about now. At

55:00

Harvard Business School's

55:00

servant leadership, these books

55:02

talked about it 3000 years ago,

55:02

I think there is value in

55:07

reading these stories, I think

55:07

the hard part is we just have to

55:10

as an AI need to do it better

55:10

for my own sons is is to make it

55:15

relevant for today's world? And

55:15

what are you learning that's

55:18

going to be very relevant for

55:18

today's world, because there

55:21

isn't necessarily that same

55:21

connection to go into a temple

55:24

every like, you know, the way I

55:24

was raised. But I think it's so

55:27

powerful. Still, the stories,

55:27

the lessons are the same, it's

55:30

just hard as human beings to

55:30

follow them. I don't think the

55:33

lessons have drifted. So I think

55:33

it's just making that relevant,

55:36

I would encourage people to read

55:36

these books. And you can

55:40

certainly quote that I think

55:40

most of the leaders I know, who

55:43

are of Indian origin, at the

55:43

tops of these companies also are

55:47

deeply grounded in these

55:47

stories. I think on the on the

55:50

diabetes front, this is a minute

55:50

clearly a global challenge. And

55:55

there's not an easy, easy

55:55

solution, though, of course, be

55:58

more and more therapeutics we

55:58

can offer and now there's a new

56:01

wave coming that also has a

56:01

powerful impact on on obesity.

56:06

But this is still grounded

56:06

fundamentally in habits, you

56:10

know, the the approach to food,

56:10

the abundance now of food for a

56:15

species that actually as a

56:15

species, we were designed for

56:18

scarcity. And now we're

56:18

surrounded by abundance. And

56:21

fundamentally, our metabolisms

56:21

don't know what to do. And so of

56:24

course, that leads to insulin

56:24

resistance and all the

56:26

consequences. I don't think

56:26

there's an easy solution to

56:31

this. I think what's clear,

56:31

though, is early diagnosis and

56:36

early intervention, no matter

56:36

which disease, we talked about a

56:39

hypertension, diabetes, lung

56:39

cancer, breast cancer, we we

56:43

have to just figure out how to

56:43

diagnose earlier and intervene

56:47

earlier because past a certain

56:47

point, it's very, very cool.

56:52

Thank you

56:52

guys, for very riveting talk.

56:56

This question is for either of

56:56

you guys, given that both of you

56:59

have different perspectives on

56:59

global health and global equity.

57:03

As someone who's currently in

57:03

med school right now, I feel

57:05

like a lot of the education we

57:05

get is often US centric focused

57:10

on the sort of modalities and

57:10

diagnostic and therapeutic

57:15

capabilities that we have here

57:15

in the US. And we're very lucky

57:18

to have you know, impressive

57:18

biotech engines based here in

57:21

the US. But we're in places

57:21

where there's disease burden,

57:25

like you mentioned, sickle cell

57:25

in India, and a lot of the

57:28

innovation is often resource

57:28

intensive, or really cutting

57:33

edge like biologics or gene

57:33

therapies. How do you ensure

57:38

that those populations get those

57:38

treatments? And what do you

57:42

think is the first step in sort of developing that infrastructure in areas of

57:44

disease burden developing

57:47

nations,

57:48

I mean, one of the things I would just start with is even in the

57:50

United States, or even in

57:53

Europe, 70% of health outcomes

57:53

are structural in society, or

57:57

social determinants. So whether

57:57

you work with the pollution and

58:00

your access to food or access to

58:00

safe spaces to exercise your

58:04

jobs, to I think even in the

58:04

United States, we're struggling

58:08

in medical education, to help

58:08

students understand or medical

58:14

professionals to understand what

58:14

is the breadth of actual

58:17

intervention required to achieve

58:17

health outcomes in your, in

58:20

your, in your local patient

58:20

populations. And a lot of people

58:24

are is very divided discussion.

58:24

A lot of people say you go to

58:27

med school for four years you do

58:27

a residency, you're not there to

58:30

make sure your patient has heat

58:30

that needs to be somebody else.

58:34

But without that heat, or

58:34

without access to food, your

58:36

patients are not going to get

58:36

better even if you give them the

58:39

best drugs in the world. And so

58:39

this is only amplified as we

58:43

move into more resource poor

58:43

settings outside of the United

58:46

States and outside of Europe, I

58:46

think we have to figure out ways

58:50

that we're structurally

58:50

addressing these fundamental

58:54

drivers of access to food, socio

58:54

economic status, what is the GDP

58:58

per capita in a country? These

58:58

are the things that I think are

59:02

going to elevate communities,

59:02

but then instilling the right

59:05

behaviors, I think around

59:05

activity around consumption, are

59:09

going to be really important. I

59:09

know you guys have done

59:12

Bernardus has done a lot on

59:12

thinking about shortening the

59:14

timeline for interventions.

59:17

And the way I

59:17

think the way we think about it

59:20

is on the one hand, to your to

59:20

your question, how do we reduce

59:24

the costs and the barriers to

59:24

getting the most technologically

59:28

advanced therapeutics, but at

59:28

the same time, how do we just

59:31

keep raising the base of kind of

59:31

just the basics that are in

59:35

place? So let me use sickle cell

59:35

as an example. We're actually

59:39

here at number on alongside the

59:39

monoclonal antibody, we have

59:42

programs looking at CRISPR based

59:42

therapeutics to tackle sickle

59:46

cell disease as well as fetal

59:46

hemoglobin based technologies.

59:50

And do we wanted to do something

59:50

to tackle sickle cell in Africa

59:54

five, six years ago, actually,

59:54

when I first started as CEO,

59:58

then when we went on the ground,

59:58

we realized for First, that

1:00:00

there isn't good newborn

1:00:00

screening in place like the

1:00:03

newborn screening is just non

1:00:03

existent, despite there being

1:00:07

millions of children with sickle

1:00:07

cell disease on the continent.

1:00:10

So we started with newborn

1:00:10

screening, we got newborn

1:00:13

screening up in Ghana. Now we've

1:00:13

got newborn screening up across

1:00:16

six different countries. And

1:00:16

interestingly, nobody else was

1:00:18

working on it. We had to sit

1:00:18

there and just go country by

1:00:21

country on newborn screening.

1:00:21

Then we said, okay, very

1:00:24

interesting. We have monoclonal

1:00:24

antibodies and cell therapies.

1:00:27

But what's the next step for

1:00:27

these patients, it's access to

1:00:30

antibiotics. We have Sandoz the

1:00:30

largest antibiotics producer in

1:00:33

the world. So we started to

1:00:33

supply antibiotic. And the next

1:00:36

therapy is hydroxyurea, it's not

1:00:36

any of the fancy stuff, we

1:00:40

actually made an agreement with

1:00:40

a company in Italy to produce

1:00:44

hydroxyurea at large scale at

1:00:44

low costs. And then we made it

1:00:47

available to all these

1:00:47

countries, step by several

1:00:50

raising this and at the same

1:00:50

time, we have a partnership with

1:00:53

the Gates Foundation to figure

1:00:53

out how can you make CRISPR

1:00:56

based cell therapies in vivo and

1:00:56

extremely cheap? I don't know,

1:01:01

John, if you're working on that

1:01:01

project, or others, but it's a

1:01:05

it's an interesting model to

1:01:05

say, how can you take a cell

1:01:07

therapy that normally requires

1:01:07

huge infrastructure? And can you

1:01:11

actually condense that down to

1:01:11

actually make it inside of a

1:01:14

person. And in each one of these

1:01:14

cases, that's what we have to

1:01:17

do, whether it's cancer, whether

1:01:17

it's sickle cell disease, raise

1:01:21

the bar on the basics, while

1:01:21

still driving down the

1:01:26

complexity of the high end. And

1:01:26

hopefully, at some point in the

1:01:29

next decades, we meet in the middle,

1:01:32

back there.

1:01:32

Thank you, both so much for a

1:01:35

very inspiring conversation are

1:01:35

for my cell phone, my wife, as

1:01:40

we both raise two young kids,

1:01:40

it's inspirational to see how

1:01:44

how the both of you do it. So

1:01:44

thank you for that. My question

1:01:48

is, for us, particularly on how

1:01:48

do you see the impact of the

1:01:54

inflation Reduction Act

1:01:54

impacting what Novartis is doing

1:01:58

with this pipeline moving

1:01:58

forward? And or do you see

1:02:03

changes coming to that

1:02:03

particular act? That might also

1:02:07

impact what Novartis is doing in

1:02:07

terms of medicinal development?

1:02:11

Again, thank you both.

1:02:14

I was gonna try to give it to you, but she's not gonna let me Yes, I live,

1:02:16

obviously, a lot of the US

1:02:20

public policy topics. And I

1:02:20

mean, certainly the the

1:02:23

inflation Reduction Act is going

1:02:23

to have an impact on innovation

1:02:27

as it currently stands. And that

1:02:27

largely relates to how the price

1:02:31

setting provisions in the act or

1:02:31

are structured. But I mean,

1:02:35

taking a step back and sort of

1:02:35

thinking about what what is fair

1:02:39

and right and appropriate in a

1:02:39

biotech ecosystem. When you go

1:02:42

back to the hatch Waxman act

1:02:42

from the mid 1980s. And you look

1:02:46

at the broad set of data. On

1:02:46

average, biopharmaceutical

1:02:51

companies have had between 13

1:02:51

and 15 years of exclusivity on a

1:02:54

new invention, it roughly makes

1:02:54

sense. If you think that we make

1:02:58

a discovery, we wait a few years

1:02:58

before we patented, then we have

1:03:02

20 years, and then it takes us

1:03:02

seven years from that point in

1:03:06

time of the patent to ultimately

1:03:06

develop it, then you have 13

1:03:09

years left for a exclusivity on

1:03:09

your invention, then it goes

1:03:13

generic. So the provisions in

1:03:13

the act where they say that

1:03:17

after 13 years for biologics,

1:03:17

we're gonna have some sort of

1:03:20

generic cessation event is

1:03:20

really meant to, I think, curb

1:03:24

some of the abuses that have

1:03:24

happened in the system. And I

1:03:28

mean, while we don't love it,

1:03:28

it's hard to argue with the

1:03:30

logic there. The challenges on

1:03:30

the small molecule provisions in

1:03:34

the act where you reduce that

1:03:34

down to nine years, it's just

1:03:38

simply too short of time for us

1:03:38

to be able to fully develop

1:03:41

small molecules in areas of

1:03:41

cancer or cardiovascular disease

1:03:46

that are predominantly in the

1:03:46

elderly. So what that incentive

1:03:49

shift does, and I don't think

1:03:49

that the the, there was enough

1:03:52

of a discussion or understanding

1:03:52

of how markets work, when you

1:03:56

put in something like that

1:03:56

systems like this quickly shift,

1:03:59

right, we deprioritize products

1:03:59

that will be within the

1:04:03

crosshairs of those nine year

1:04:03

provisions. And we prioritize

1:04:06

things that will put us in the

1:04:06

13 year provision, right. That's

1:04:09

just the nature of this. So I'm

1:04:09

hopeful that in the next five

1:04:12

years, we can get that nine to

1:04:12

13 directed. The sad part is in

1:04:16

the meantime, I think many good

1:04:16

medicines will get delayed or

1:04:20

deprioritize. In the absence of

1:04:20

having certainty on how this

1:04:24

this whole thing evolves.

1:04:26

Maybe someone on the bleachers.

1:04:28

Thank you so

1:04:28

much for an inspiring talk. And

1:04:31

as an Novartis employee, I'm

1:04:31

very honored to be part of a

1:04:33

company that really reimagined

1:04:33

medicine. And I'm very excited

1:04:37

to know that we're having

1:04:37

therapeutics be more accessible

1:04:40

to these communities. At the

1:04:40

same time, there's also a lot of

1:04:42

mistrust with communities that

1:04:42

don't understand the science,

1:04:46

although new innovation of the

1:04:46

technologies and platforms and

1:04:49

modalities of this new

1:04:49

therapeutics, so how do we

1:04:51

bridge the new up and coming

1:04:51

technologies to really make more

1:04:56

accessible at the same time,

1:04:56

make sure it's safe and

1:04:59

effective this community They

1:04:59

might not understand the exact

1:05:02

science of this.

1:05:04

Yeah, I mean, it's such a good question. And I think one of the

1:05:06

things, even moving back into

1:05:10

therapeutic availability is

1:05:10

clinical trial diversity. And we

1:05:14

really see mistrust in

1:05:14

communities when it comes to

1:05:17

participation in clinical

1:05:17

trials. And not all that some of

1:05:21

that is just is mistrust. But

1:05:21

there's actually very pragmatic

1:05:25

aspects to clinical trial, the

1:05:25

lack of diversity in clinical

1:05:28

trials, patient populations,

1:05:28

there's data that shows that

1:05:32

patients are actually not in

1:05:32

touch with a physician who's

1:05:35

close enough to a clinical

1:05:35

trial, and especially in

1:05:38

underrepresented in patients of

1:05:38

color. Their physicians, they

1:05:41

often go to physicians of color,

1:05:41

and those physicians are not

1:05:44

actually close enough to

1:05:44

clinical trials to enroll their

1:05:47

patients into clinical trials.

1:05:47

So this, it starts a chain of

1:05:50

events where you kind of

1:05:50

perpetuate mistrust in certain

1:05:53

communities, because they're not

1:05:53

part of the innovation of it.

1:05:57

They're they're not knowledgeable about, you know, why this product? Or why this

1:05:59

thing? Or where's this going? Or

1:06:02

why is this different? And that

1:06:02

even goes back to physicians,

1:06:06

diversity in medical schools, I

1:06:06

think is going to help a lot. I

1:06:09

think there's a lot of

1:06:09

initiatives on thinking about

1:06:11

how do we, how do we ensure that

1:06:11

there we have diversity in

1:06:15

schools, and that we actually

1:06:15

talk about clinical child

1:06:17

participation with with with

1:06:17

physicians, regardless of you

1:06:21

know, who or what they're

1:06:21

graduating with, or what they're

1:06:23

doing, and then trying to

1:06:23

increase the amount of community

1:06:26

involvement and trial design and

1:06:26

trial participation, I think

1:06:29

we'll start to start the level

1:06:29

of of increasing some of the

1:06:33

trust so that therapeutics can

1:06:33

be available. But maybe you want

1:06:36

to add that,

1:06:37

I would just

1:06:37

build it on what she said and

1:06:40

add from a bigger picture kind

1:06:40

of narrative of what we're

1:06:44

seeing in the loss of trust in

1:06:44

science and how it's so

1:06:47

important that we tackle that.

1:06:47

Well, I mean, one of my favorite

1:06:49

books is a book called

1:06:49

enlightenment now by Steven

1:06:52

Pinker, which really talks about

1:06:52

how over centuries, we

1:06:56

dramatically improve human life

1:06:56

on this planet, on almost every

1:07:01

dimension based on science and

1:07:01

science based innovations across

1:07:05

the full range of human life.

1:07:05

And actually, this moment in

1:07:09

time is the best moment in time

1:07:09

to ever be alive in the history

1:07:12

of the species. But when you

1:07:12

read the papers, or you hear our

1:07:15

politicians, you wouldn't

1:07:15

believe that right? You have

1:07:17

this whole, you know, kind of

1:07:17

bizarro world that's been

1:07:22

created, that the world is

1:07:22

ending and all these things and,

1:07:25

and, of course, there's huge

1:07:25

challenges, but the only way

1:07:27

we're going to overcome them is

1:07:27

by trust in science and trust in

1:07:31

and knowledge, creation and

1:07:31

curiosity. And so I think all of

1:07:34

us have to just keep trying to

1:07:34

fight for hopefully, the voice

1:07:39

of scientists, the voice of

1:07:39

science, I often sit in

1:07:42

meetings, right? I just cannot

1:07:42

believe the things that senior

1:07:45

politicians say about vaccines.

1:07:45

I mean, vaccines are simply the

1:07:49

greatest public health

1:07:49

intervention that humanity has

1:07:52

ever created. Barnatan, maybe

1:07:52

one of the greatest inventions

1:07:55

we've ever created. And yet,

1:07:55

they're talked about, like,

1:07:58

there's some sort of evil

1:07:58

conspiracy. And so we need to,

1:08:02

we need to tackle this, I don't

1:08:02

have a magic solution. But I

1:08:05

think we just have to keep, as

1:08:05

all of us in whatever

1:08:08

communities are in, you know,

1:08:08

building more trust in science

1:08:11

and in scientists.

1:08:14

I think that's a

1:08:14

great place to end our audience

1:08:16

q&a. And as I said, I have one

1:08:16

last question for you guys. You

1:08:20

both started a momentous moment

1:08:20

in your journeys, a stone's

1:08:24

throw away from here at

1:08:24

Vanderbilt Hall. And looking

1:08:27

back at that younger version of

1:08:27

yourselves. I'm curious. I mean,

1:08:31

in some ways you guys are every

1:08:31

Indian parents dream your

1:08:34

Harvard educated physicians. And

1:08:34

in other ways you've charted

1:08:38

completely unconventional paths

1:08:38

in health and education and

1:08:42

beyond. Looking back at your

1:08:42

younger selves, looking at your

1:08:45

son, sigh who's here today? What

1:08:45

advice would you give to that

1:08:49

version of yourselves? I think

1:08:54

one

1:08:54

big theme for me is careers tend

1:08:58

to make sense in retrospect,

1:08:58

they don't necessarily make

1:09:01

sense forward looking. And so

1:09:01

don't beat yourself up too much.

1:09:05

If you can't sort of connect the

1:09:05

dots in the moment, they wind up

1:09:08

connecting somehow, in some way.

1:09:08

Oh, that would be that would be

1:09:13

my piece of advice.

1:09:16

Yeah, I would look back I'm still the same advice sigh keeps giving me is

1:09:17

to have more fun on this whole

1:09:20

journey. Right. And, and it's,

1:09:20

it's easy to get so caught up in

1:09:25

in, you know, what you're going

1:09:25

to do next, and the roles and

1:09:27

the titles and the and all of

1:09:27

the things and in the end,

1:09:31

right, it's this this moment

1:09:31

that matters. And the more you

1:09:35

can live in that moment, and be

1:09:35

happy in that moment, the more

1:09:38

fulfilled you'll be. It's really

1:09:38

hard to do that really, really

1:09:41

hard to do that. But psych

1:09:41

always calls me out on it, which

1:09:44

I'm always grateful for. And,

1:09:44

but that would be the advice,

1:09:47

you know, have a lot more fun on

1:09:47

the journey. For sure. It sounds

1:09:50

like you guys both have a lead coach in the house. Honestly, I think I could

1:09:53

dedicate an hour or two each of

1:09:57

you. Thank you both so much for

1:09:57

taking the time to share your

1:09:59

wisdom Have an insights can we

1:09:59

give them a round of applause?

1:10:12

Now, before we wrap up for the

1:10:12

evening, there are a couple of

1:10:16

people who I'd like to think who

1:10:16

were instrumental in making

1:10:19

today possible. Starting with

1:10:19

the Novartis team, who's hosted

1:10:23

us and put on this beautiful

1:10:23

event, Vinny, who's been there

1:10:27

walking alongside me helping

1:10:27

make this event happen and come

1:10:31

to life. To Kathleen Patrick

1:10:31

Conrad, Chris Ihar. John,

1:10:38

Daniel, thank you all so much.

1:10:38

This literally event would not

1:10:42

have happened without all of you. And I'm so grateful to have met you through this process.

1:10:44

And I think it speaks to the

1:10:51

talent you guys are cultivating

1:10:51

here. To all the friends family

1:10:55

who've come from a far side so

1:10:55

awesome to be joined by your son

1:10:59

and I know we're missing could

1:10:59

beer. My dad also flew in for

1:11:03

this event, which is really

1:11:03

exciting, but to all the

1:11:05

familiar faces and new ones,

1:11:05

we're so happy to have you here.

1:11:08

And last but certainly not

1:11:08

least, to shoot the in boss, for

1:11:12

giving us the privilege to share

1:11:12

your story and for the

1:11:15

enthusiasm you've shown for

1:11:15

South Asian trailblazers. Your

1:11:19

journeys individually and

1:11:19

together are incredible and so

1:11:21

grateful to have the opportunity

1:11:21

to share it with our community.

1:11:25

Thank

1:11:25

you for inviting us. It's

1:11:25

Thank you. amazing what you're doing.

1:11:33

Thanks for joining us

1:11:33

for today's episode. If you want

1:11:36

to get new episodes great to

1:11:36

your inbox, subscribe to our

1:11:39

newsletter at

1:11:39

SouthAsianTrailblazers.com And

1:11:41

follow us at South Asian

1:11:41

Trailblazers on Instagram,

1:11:44

Facebook and LinkedIn.