0:04

This is Space Cats Peace

0:06

Turtles, the unofficial podcast for

0:09

Fantasy Flight's Twilight Imperium. Episode

0:12

329, Hunter's Journey Through

0:14

the Qualifiers. Hunter,

0:17

can I Oh,

2:01

yeah, yeah, yeah, that was good. I like bow bow Wow,

2:05

that's one of that's from the beginning

2:08

the first time we can't do that joke anymore

2:10

We really I mean we couldn't do that joke

2:12

because then but we got away

2:14

with it kind of yeah But yeah, man

2:16

If anybody's ever wondering the reason there's no

2:18

like soundtrack to Twilight people like I my

2:20

group plays with like music in the background

2:22

And we do stuff with like musical cues.

2:24

We used to do we did that was

2:26

a fun part of TI That's a necessary

2:28

part of the fun good times the Twilight

2:31

Imperium when you do it on stream You

2:33

don't get to have any of that kind

2:35

of fun. No licensed fun folks. No

2:37

license fun. That's a Space

2:40

cat sea turtle no license. No one's

2:42

fun. Hunter. I also have some fun

2:44

tournament updates for you These

2:47

are a lot easier to hear now that I am.

2:49

Oh, yeah, really There's

2:52

no names coming up on the radar where you're like no

2:55

Yeah, that's true We

2:58

have a win from Roku this

3:00

week. Congratulations of Roku. We have

3:02

get what? Congratulations to Roku the

3:04

you know the streaming thing. Oh

3:06

sure. Oh, that's our bit Are you

3:08

cool? Yeah, yeah, thanks. Roke. Yeah, my

3:11

parents use you a lot That's

3:13

ever notice that people will have Roku, but

3:16

they also have a smart TV. Yeah, so

3:18

you'll be like what is What are we

3:20

doing here? Why did you buy Roku? Also

3:25

congratulations to Alice

3:27

for their sixth total tournament win

3:29

tied with the sugar for a

3:32

number of Tournament

3:34

wins Alice their only game

3:36

this tournament they won They said they weren't gonna

3:38

play and then they knocked it out and won

3:42

Wow, so Alice continues to be one

3:44

of the winningest players of tournament history.

3:46

We've also got Wilton zero Shorty

3:48

five five has made it through

3:50

to the prelim Congratulations, Emma

3:53

chef ski also a previous

3:55

Semi-finalist ever new two times

3:57

semi-finalist. What a week everybody

3:59

And Sergeant Buck, congratulations as well.

4:01

Those are your seven winners from this

4:03

last weekend of tournament games. Wait,

4:06

that wasn't very many people. That's

4:08

not enough. Let's keep going everybody.

4:10

Hey, uh, pick up the

4:12

pace people. Last

4:15

week we announced that you can do more than

4:17

one game per week. I think

4:19

that weekend of games was maybe a little bit early, although

4:21

I still would say we do need to

4:23

pick up the pace. I don't know if the one per

4:26

week rule being lifted has saved

4:28

us yet and now I'm

4:31

beginning to fear that it won't. So

4:33

who knows? I mean, I still think we're going to play

4:35

to 216 at this point, but it might

4:37

go further into January than we originally planned.

4:39

Unless? It might go a little bit into January.

4:41

Unless. Unless. Bunch

4:43

of you college kids on your Christmas

4:46

breaks or anybody who has prolonged breaks

4:48

from work over the holidays, game

4:51

every day? I see no problems.

4:54

Game every day. Yeah,

4:56

I mean, you know, gaming makes the heart

4:58

grow fonder. Oh, they say. They

5:00

say that. They say that. But yeah, no,

5:02

just, you know, fill it out. We don't, we don't

5:04

have that many, we've got like 70 spots

5:07

left, right? Yeah, that's about it. Yeah,

5:09

around 70, a little, maybe 80, uh,

5:11

80 spots left in the tournament. Uh,

5:13

and, and, you know, four

5:15

more weekends, three more weekends, uh,

5:18

of this month. And then it'll, it'll

5:20

bleed into January. But honestly, I am

5:23

not concerned with it bleeding over into the prelims.

5:25

We, it used to be consecutive prelims and qualifiers

5:27

used to just happen at the same time. Anyways,

5:30

this is not a process, uh, we are afraid of,

5:32

uh, so, you know, we just, we'll just let

5:34

the qualifiers bleed over. It's completely fine. Uh, and,

5:37

and that means you can try to get games

5:39

in January. Hopefully not by

5:41

February. I would like to cut it off before

5:43

February. That would be my goal. Now

5:46

Matt, I just want to ask real quick just

5:48

to make sure. So the first

5:50

weekend of the prelims is January 5th, 6th and

5:52

7th. Is that right? Yep.

5:55

Yep. Yep. Yep.

5:58

Yep. Yep. start at

6:00

6 a.m. December

6:03

31st because technically it's New Zealand January

6:05

1st and he is correct but the

6:07

important point to note is this year

6:10

the the prelims schedule is kind of

6:12

on space cats it's

6:14

in our logistical capacity and we will

6:16

be determining when these games happen now

6:18

we will have opportunities for

6:21

guest streamers there might even be a stream

6:23

that day if six prelims players want to

6:25

play New Year's Day slash New Year's Eve

6:27

and like Big Al wants to stream fine

6:31

y'all can do that no I'm not knowing that

6:33

don't give them that don't give them that that's

6:35

no they don't get okay no no Matt I

6:37

can't believe you're about to come see that New

6:39

Zealand come in here all

6:42

right you don't get to New

6:44

Zealand you do not get to decide when

6:46

the space cats be turtles prelims start we

6:48

do that okay do not overstep y'all got

6:50

Lord of the Rings and you almost didn't

6:52

get the hobbit actually we were trying to

6:54

take the hobbit away from you and then

6:56

you did get the hobbit I mean those

6:58

movies sucked right whatever so you got

7:01

those yeah all right so chill you got right

7:03

you still have Tyka and that's fine well maybe

7:05

I don't know Tyka anymore I don't know I

7:07

think you guys why the concords back we took

7:09

flight of the concords for a while but I

7:11

do think you have them back now I

7:14

think that even New Zealand would be a

7:16

little bit like you know because remember when

7:18

Tyka was like being all mean about those

7:20

the VFX oh yeah yeah yeah that was

7:22

lame and that was pretty lame

7:25

to do Tyka and so

7:27

yeah I think we do have Tyka for that

7:29

reason because that's some like really American lame

7:31

Americans yeah and I feel like

7:33

he has integrated he has assimilated

7:35

because he's out here like talking

7:37

smack on people underneath him that

7:39

work really hard yeah that's American

7:41

right okay right that's us that's

7:43

not very Kiaora of you Tyka

7:50

but yeah so so they start when we

7:52

say they start also because I want us

7:54

to stream the first game yeah not a

7:56

gal yeah it's not big als prelims yeah

7:59

okay so yeah It's

8:01

sometimes it seems that way but no it is

8:03

it is ours. No, we will start them that

8:05

that following weekend and there will be Roughly

8:07

three games a weekend. I think the prelims schedule will

8:10

not quite look like any previous year I think it's

8:12

gonna be a bit of a mixed bag in terms

8:14

of like what you know What who's doing it? I

8:16

think Hunter and I want to do a lot more

8:18

of it But Hunter and I won't necessarily be doing

8:20

every single game that is always Al

8:23

is available. It's available to be

8:27

24 hours a day seven days A

8:30

week. Absolutely sure. Well, I think it's time that

8:32

we got to get into the Adventure

8:35

that was me Entering

8:39

the tournament and playing as kind of

8:41

a Experiment to see

8:43

what it's like to play in the tournament if

8:46

you're specifically a tournament runner This

8:49

what it's like to play in your own

8:52

tournament and to then try

8:54

and assume what that might be like

8:56

for a normal person Just just playing

8:58

in a no. No. No incorrect incorrect

9:01

on all counts I never thought

9:03

that I would be able to find out what

9:05

it's like. No, I didn't as a normal player

9:07

I'm certainly not suggesting that I know that you

9:09

you knew that this was a weird a weird

9:12

thing And would

9:14

be treated weird and boy was it boy.

9:16

Was it ever treated strangely? Well,

9:19

yeah, I mean it I think

9:21

it's just kind of a weird thing for me to try and do

9:24

and I think in general it

9:27

reminded me a lot of when

9:29

the community was first forming and I

9:33

kind of just looked for games to play with

9:35

random people it kind of reminded me of that

9:37

Yeah, because there was a period of the show

9:39

where I think we spent a lot of

9:41

time complaining that the show was ruining our

9:44

ability to play TI. Yeah, and

9:47

I Think it reminded

9:49

me of that and it made me realize that

9:51

I sort of have Like

9:54

my own group of people that I play

9:56

with pretty regularly There's a lot of people

9:58

that cycle in and out of that group.

10:00

Yeah. But by and large, I've kind

10:02

of found like my own meta and it

10:04

was interesting to get outside of that. I

10:06

do feel like I learned some things. Yeah.

10:08

But one of the things I learned is

10:11

that there is like definitely a lot of

10:13

heat and attention directed at specifically me because

10:16

of the podcast. It's interesting too because I

10:18

think you could take that there's an interesting

10:20

wave of the show where like we started

10:22

it and our strategic kind of advice or

10:25

whatever was just coming from like, I don't

10:27

know, we play with our local group and

10:29

so this is kind of what our meta

10:31

is like. So this is what our perspective

10:34

is like. And so then we start doing the

10:36

tournament as a very specific venture into like, well,

10:38

let's learn about how more people play. And

10:41

I think that works. We learned a lot. We've always

10:43

learned a lot from just watching other games. But like

10:46

you're saying, us playing turned into like, well,

10:48

we have to play with a specific group. And I think

10:50

that has come back around again to somewhat

10:53

coloring like what we find as good, right?

10:55

Because, you know, we're not playing with the

10:58

Euro morning crew every single week. So we

11:00

think some things are different than they probably

11:02

think in that specific

11:04

group or whatever. And I

11:07

find it interesting that there's not

11:10

really any putting that genie back in

11:12

the bottle for us. There's no going

11:14

back like you and I can't just

11:16

like experience a totally fresh

11:18

new meta like that. That

11:20

mostly doesn't really exist. I

11:22

will say because I'll

11:25

probably be peppering in my async tournament

11:27

stuff in here. I will say my

11:29

experience is slightly different vis-a-vis

11:31

tournament entry stuff because I

11:33

do think the async community

11:36

is very much not like an explicitly space cats

11:38

community, right? There's tons and tons and tons of

11:40

people in the async world that are not space

11:43

cats listeners. And I think even the majority of

11:45

the players in my game are

11:47

not space cats listeners versus a

11:50

kind of almost everybody in the space cats

11:52

tournament. It's more or less

11:54

assumed you probably have listened to the

11:56

show at least some. And there's some people that just come out

11:58

of the woodworks because they want to joint tournament, right? That's

12:01

true. That feels less true this year to me

12:03

though. I wonder how you think about that in

12:05

terms of like who we've seen

12:07

in qualifiers and who we've seen like just

12:09

getting stuff scheduled. So I mean there were

12:11

definitely some people that I played with that

12:13

I felt like had no they didn't

12:16

really have a strong connection to the show. Yeah.

12:19

Per se. But there

12:21

were definitely a lot of people that in

12:23

some ways sort of mentioned the idea a

12:25

concept that we haven't talked about in a

12:27

really long time which is that we create

12:29

a sort of secret

12:32

objective when

12:35

we play sometimes depending on the attitude

12:37

of the player. And there were several

12:39

players that just confessed exactly to this.

12:41

This is not conjecture. Yeah. There were

12:44

several times where players that I was

12:46

in games with just alluded

12:48

to the idea of specifically

12:52

beating me. Yeah.

12:54

Which is an interesting concept in

12:56

Twilight Imperium. I wouldn't say that

12:58

when you win a game of

13:01

Twilight Imperium you should

13:03

think of it as that you specifically beat

13:05

those players at the game. Which is maybe

13:07

kind of a like maybe that's kind of

13:09

an odd idea but I kind of want

13:11

to unpack that for a second because

13:14

it was something that surprised me because I

13:16

have played against

13:18

a lot of different people in Twilight

13:21

Imperium. I think I've played with a very wide range of

13:23

people even outside of

13:25

you know I was just saying

13:27

before I have like my group. I'm not playing

13:30

with that group is quite large is my point.

13:32

Yeah. And it includes some people

13:34

that you know by any

13:36

measurable standard are some of the

13:38

best like known players

13:41

that play at all. Right. And I mean

13:44

like how like in anybody that wants

13:46

to contest that it's like well OK

13:48

like by what metric yeah. Like we

13:51

sort of have the only metrics available and

13:53

I think they're pretty flawed by the way.

13:55

But we sort of have created the

13:57

only things. So the fact that I've

14:00

beaten some of those players, I

14:02

don't think like, or I should

14:04

reframe it. I've been in games where

14:06

I have been the winner and those players were

14:08

not the winner. I still

14:10

won't think of it as I specifically

14:13

beat or bested them because

14:16

of the seventh player on board.

14:19

I think what you're describing is

14:22

what I do and I like,

14:24

you know, my horrible thing of never counting

14:26

a win for myself or for the most

14:28

part, rarely counting wins for myself. That's

14:31

what it is. That's the feeling. A

14:34

lot of times in TI when you

14:36

win, it's not like it

14:38

feels like I did it. I

14:41

outskunked you all. Like I've bested you

14:43

all and I came out supreme. It's

14:45

like a lot of weird stuff happened

14:47

and I ended up with the crown

14:49

on my head and that's like, that

14:51

is the nature of plenty of wins.

14:54

And I too often kind of go, oh, that

14:56

one doesn't count. But like to your point is,

14:59

yeah, I mean, to be the best at this game

15:01

is to be one of the people who's kind of

15:03

just able to be in that pocket

15:05

pretty often, right? It's just like, you've got

15:08

to be able to be up

15:10

front, up in the upper

15:12

half of the pack so

15:14

that sometimes that crown falls on your head. And sometimes

15:16

it just won't because the game is crazy. And

15:19

I think like it also speaks

15:21

to like a difference in our

15:23

philosophies, Matt, because I think

15:26

you play this game to sort of prove

15:28

that you are the dominator, you know, like

15:30

to show, to own the noobs and such.

15:33

I hate that you're being so dark.

15:37

You talk about what people do to you. Let's

15:41

talk about what you do explicitly to

15:43

me in every board game. That's why

15:45

it bothers you. I'm just

15:48

here trying to play a good game

15:50

of TI. And

15:52

I do that and I lose and I do that and I

15:55

win. You know what I mean? Like it

15:57

doesn't matter to me as

15:59

long as you play. as I feel like I

16:01

did a good job and I made a good

16:03

attempt at it. So I do not need to

16:05

beat the other players. Yeah. Let me frame my

16:07

thinking a little bit more which is that it's

16:10

more I don't want to make

16:14

obvious or big mistakes in the

16:17

game. That's what I get frustrated

16:19

with. And if I get a

16:21

loss, it's more likely I'll kind

16:23

of look to anything as some sort of big mistake

16:25

even if after the fact people can point

16:27

out like, well, no, you were making that decision. It was

16:29

kind of right at the time and then it moved out

16:32

to be a problem. But that's not anything you could have

16:34

ever known at the time of the decision

16:36

point or whatever. So I think more often than

16:38

not, my line of thinking

16:40

comes from like, I just don't want to make any

16:42

like huge mistakes and embarrass myself or

16:44

whatever. There is also that aspect of you

16:46

that wants to wear like a helmet made

16:48

of bone and sit on a throne of

16:51

skulls, right? I mean, in No,

16:54

I won't

16:56

give it to you. I won't give you

16:58

the bit. I refuse. Let's keep talking about

17:00

you in the tournament. Confounded. I want to

17:02

keep it focused on you. Clearly, this is

17:04

kind of a you episode. I

17:07

want to say I want to stay

17:09

on your psychology, which is very important.

17:11

No, I think that what

17:14

I'm trying to say is that the

17:16

seventh player intervenes and there is no such

17:19

thing as a game of TI where a

17:21

mistake is not made because you don't have

17:23

perfect information. So if you are going to

17:25

at the end of a game, whether win

17:27

or lose, look for a mistake, you will

17:30

find it because you did not have enough

17:32

information to even know whether it was a

17:34

mistake or not. Now, sometimes there are things

17:36

that are like objectively, you're like, I should

17:39

not have done that, whatever. But still,

17:41

you are sort of like judging yourself

17:44

with all of like it's 2020 vision you have

17:46

now. Exactly.

17:49

And it's like, I don't know, it's

17:51

tough. Things get, it's really hard to,

17:53

I mean, there's there's one particular moment

17:55

I can think of in the

17:57

qualifiers where I felt like I was making a

17:59

mistake. In the moment and I

18:01

was like, ah, well and it was that kind of

18:03

thing where the table was like you can't take it

18:05

back Yeah, which of course, you know when I make

18:07

mistakes, it's always like that when they make mistakes. It's

18:10

everything's chill Just like a

18:12

fun way. I'll do it Then

18:14

you insist that I that everyone there's like

18:16

this like evil group of people out there

18:18

that just Insists and some of them sort

18:20

of expressed this to me vocally although they

18:22

don't I don't think they meant to insult

18:24

me I think they just didn't know about

18:26

this. There's a bunch of people out there

18:28

that say that I'm really

18:31

bad at the game, which I am they

18:33

are correct. The reason is they are egregiously

18:35

wrong, which is that they just say that

18:38

People just go really easy on me and just roll

18:40

over and let me win uh-huh, which is I

18:43

want to say just to view if

18:45

you think that and you are listening the amount of

18:48

Heat and attention and focus I

18:50

get on my game from my

18:53

opponent Makes it so

18:55

that in my opinion We

18:58

are not even playing the same game of

19:00

TI. Yeah, like you are not Known

19:04

for this for Twilight Imperium, right? But most

19:06

of the people that are listening so

19:09

the amount of pressure and Focus

19:13

that you get in a game. It's just not

19:15

like what I do Yeah the fact that

19:17

I am able to have all of this pressure

19:19

and all this focus on my game and Still

19:22

pull out the W even

19:25

once every 20 games Yeah,

19:27

which I would say my rate is probably higher than that. I

19:29

don't care. It doesn't matter The fact

19:31

that I win it all it's kind of why

19:34

Because we are not like you

19:36

are just not playing the same game, right? I well

19:39

if anything it kind of leads to like we're talking

19:41

about the group. We've sort of Isolated

19:43

out that we play with I mean

19:46

like you and I play with death Piper a

19:48

lot and death Piper It's one of the most

19:50

winningest players I've like ever seen we we used

19:52

to play I would say with Magi Kind of

19:54

a fair bit Magi is way up there on

19:56

the list of people who play a lot Kalluen

19:59

Kalluen. I don't think has very many notable

20:01

tournament wins but like we all know that Kaluwin

20:03

wins all the time. All

20:05

the time Kaluwin wins. But

20:07

what's interesting to me about that dynamic is, because

20:09

this is something I'll just, I'll note, my most

20:12

recent game where Death was in it, it was

20:14

for my Ghost Sky and

20:17

in the game somewhat and especially after the fact

20:19

on the YouTube video, I got called out for

20:21

like giving Death's

20:23

Piper no deal-making time or whatever, right?

20:25

Like I just, you put a lot

20:27

of pressure. I really am like shutting

20:29

her down at every pass because I've

20:31

seen lots of games with her and

20:33

I've been in lots of games with

20:36

her where I've seen what she can

20:38

do with lots of room to breathe, right? And

20:40

I think that's like where this is coming from

20:42

for you. So if people are trying like this

20:46

notion that Hunter is talking about, I don't think it's

20:48

even unique to Hunter. It's unique to like the big

20:50

names in the community and the big people that win

20:52

a lot is people look

20:55

at you and go, if you're trying to get a deal

20:57

out of me, I just don't trust

20:59

it. And I would say even more so, Hunter

21:01

is the kind of person who rarely offers deals

21:04

where he's like being super sneaky and trying to

21:06

like pull the rug, pull the wool over

21:08

your eyes, right? I think very often-

21:10

I play a super transparent game and I keep

21:12

my deals really simple and obvious because of this

21:14

heat that I experience. And you still get the

21:16

heat despite just being like, I just want a

21:19

dollar for the thing. I just want a dollar

21:21

for the thing. Oh, and that's before the dollar.

21:23

And they're like, well, what's your game, man? And

21:25

it's like, I'm trying to make deals and yeah,

21:27

I mean, in Async, this is

21:29

not the same kind of thing, but in the

21:31

Async game you and I played, your vibe was

21:34

very much just like, I can't even make deals.

21:37

Like I'm just not going to take part in the social

21:39

part of this game. I must disengage. That

21:41

was for different reasons, but it was that same-

21:43

There was so much heat on me in that

21:45

game. I felt no ability to maneuver. I was

21:47

playing a soul. Before

21:51

I had ever sold mill support one time,

21:53

the players were complaining about all the money I was

21:55

going to make off of mill support. So I was

21:57

like, okay. And so I backed off.

22:00

I was like I need to get some of this heat

22:02

off of me. I never sold it right a whole game

22:05

It never got sold. Yeah, and yet

22:07

still Players complained that

22:09

I was just I was doing way

22:11

too well. Oh, no, right what's gonna

22:13

happen with me and eventually Honestly the

22:15

amount of heat It

22:18

can be too much It can get to the

22:20

point where I'm like, you know There's no point

22:22

because if I have a good game my late

22:24

game maneuverability will be so low Yeah, if all

22:26

five players look at one player and they say

22:28

like we we can't let this person win. They

22:30

will achieve it Right. Absolutely. I mean they go

22:32

in a question right? I didn't even a question

22:34

for sure I want to talk about

22:36

I want to back up a little bit because we're

22:38

talking about getting in the game But let's talk about

22:41

the process of the qualifiers a little bit more Sure,

22:43

and let's talk about scheduling games for you and to

22:45

kind of set you up the

22:48

obvious noteworthy thing about you trying to sign up

22:50

for games is We We

22:53

are just now starting to talk about the idea

22:55

that like hey listen anybody complaining it's like some

22:57

games aren't filling There was never

22:59

a risk that a hunter game wasn't going to

23:01

fill up people I feel like

23:03

people just sort of appeared out of nowhere I didn't

23:05

see them looking for other games and then they would

23:07

appear ready to play a game against hunter which is

23:10

fine I mean if anything that's why we're doing this

23:12

is to give a draw for more people to want

23:14

to play in the tournament Like okay, come play against

23:16

hunter that that is a specific thing you can do

23:19

But I'll just note the people that tried

23:21

to keep play like tried to play with you

23:23

more than once and in general just like the Way

23:26

like your games would have like five Alternates ready

23:28

to go so like even if someone last minute

23:30

was gonna drop there were five people on standby

23:33

Ready to fill that position and like that

23:36

brings an energy into the game

23:38

So what did that feel like from your perspective

23:41

of just like kind of knowing? There

23:43

were sort of people almost on the hunt Some

23:46

people were chill. Yeah, I want to say that

23:48

I think some people were absolutely chill I think

23:50

some people came off as not chill, but actually

23:52

were chill But

23:55

I think some people failed to

23:57

understand is that when

24:00

When you smack talk me, especially

24:02

pregame, which was something that happened

24:04

a little bit, when you start

24:06

like vaguely smack talking me before

24:08

the games even started, I

24:11

might be assuming you're one of those

24:13

people. And

24:15

I sometimes discovered that I was completely wrong

24:17

and that that was not the case whatsoever.

24:20

And actually by and large, people

24:22

were quite nice. But I

24:24

do think that there was, yeah,

24:27

there was an excitement. There

24:30

was a tendency for

24:32

players to kind of cheat. There

24:34

was this, what's a good way

24:36

to describe it? I would call it gutter

24:39

meta, which was that I sort of felt

24:41

like a gutter where people

24:43

were sort of like, you

24:45

know, if I have a bad thing I need to

24:47

do, and it's like

24:49

it's like a stall bad action card

24:51

or like something that just bad needs

24:53

to happen to somebody even

24:57

and this is just a vibe and this is

24:59

all conjecture. So I am purely just

25:01

talking out my hat here. Yeah. A

25:04

lot of times it kind of felt like people would

25:06

just sort of be like, well, I'm just gonna hurt

25:08

Hunter because I think because they understood my style. So

25:10

they were like, it'll be fine. And

25:15

then second of all was because they were like,

25:17

I'm not necessarily certain what's going

25:19

on with them, but we gotta we

25:21

gotta keep watch. So I

25:23

noticed that I got the card

25:25

in subordination used on me multiple

25:27

times in the qualifiers and

25:29

it was never to extort. One

25:32

time it hurt my game in a tangible way and I

25:34

was like, oh yeah, okay, that was, but a

25:37

lot of times it didn't. It was more tactics and

25:39

it's just like lose one of them. It

25:41

was just like, you know what, and this happens to

25:43

you and there's no, and I'm glad

25:45

they didn't try to extort because I think

25:47

that if anything, maybe people know that I

25:50

don't really allow extortion. I actually just don't

25:52

really believe in extortion, but I think it,

25:54

yeah, I think it slows the game down.

25:56

I think it's like kind of bad etiquette. I'm not going to

25:58

go super far on that argument. it philosophically, I understand some

26:01

people swear by extortion, and they build their

26:03

whole game around it. But your point, yeah,

26:05

your point more often is if you, if

26:07

someone starts to extort you, nine

26:09

times out of ten, your play is, well, just play it on me.

26:12

We'll see where it goes. I mean, just do it. I'm

26:14

not gonna, you're not gonna sit here and milk two dollars from

26:16

like four of us before you choose a target.

26:18

Just like, just hit me. Because

26:21

there is that entanglement philosophy, right? About,

26:23

about that sort of behavior, which is

26:25

to say like, why should we all

26:28

pay this one player because they have this

26:30

one action card when one of us

26:32

could just take the hit and if it's not

26:34

a game crusher right now, then I'll just, I'll find a way

26:36

to come back from it. If anything, I

26:38

mean, especially, I mean, maybe, maybe you don't

26:40

buy into maybe the idea that like every once in

26:42

a while you get some pity points. Not, not from

26:44

a being you, but from a like, my game looks

26:46

bad. People do worse, do

26:49

less bad things to the person in

26:51

last place or whatever. But like, yeah,

26:53

when, when you get insubordinated, it's less

26:55

likely that you'll have crippled offenses because

26:57

everyone else is just trying to keep

27:00

things even somewhat, at least to

27:02

a certain extent, right? Everybody doesn't

27:04

want to throw all of their bad action cards at

27:06

Hunter. So like the first person in line hits Hunter

27:08

and then the next one is like, well, there's no,

27:10

there's really no point in doing it again to

27:12

Hunter. I'll, I'll hit somebody else or whatever. So

27:14

I, I really do think that extortion

27:17

meta definitely doesn't like make a

27:19

lot of sense for, for most components.

27:22

There are certain ones where it's like, I think there's no

27:24

other way to play it maybe or whatever. Sometimes

27:26

it does come up, but for the most part,

27:28

the, the best extortion just happened

27:30

the other day in an async game. Cardinal

27:34

was just like, oh, there's a structure

27:36

objective out. It's the strategy phase. And

27:39

carnals like fourth pick and chronicles, I'm going to

27:41

do something I've never tried before anybody

27:43

who picks trade before me, I'm crippling your

27:45

defenses. If you take trade, I'm hitting you

27:48

with this action card. And that's just, so

27:50

it's not extortion, right? He is extorting everybody,

27:53

but he's really only extorting one person. We just don't

27:55

know who that one person is yet. You have to

27:57

sort of be the one who chooses to fall on

27:59

the sword or what. whatever. I think

28:01

that's interesting too because it's just opportu- it's cost. Yes.

28:03

So you're so you just get to look at it

28:05

and be like I could take trade and then I

28:07

lose that PDF am I okay with that? Yeah. It's

28:10

open it's open face too and it's you're not really

28:12

slowing the game down that much. I'm kind of into

28:14

that. What I don't like is yeah

28:16

I guess I should be more specific about exactly

28:18

the play I don't like is the idea of

28:21

I'm gonna extort the entire table. Yeah. I'm

28:23

gonna I might not even be playing

28:25

this right now. I think

28:28

that I think that a lot of people will

28:30

just kind of look at all of their components

28:32

and see endless value out of them. Right. And

28:35

I first of all I don't think that the rest of

28:37

the table should be okay with that. Yeah. So I think

28:40

that that basically the rest of the table can shut that

28:42

down pretty handily. Right. But also it slows the game down.

28:44

I'm not in favor of any like

28:46

gameplay tactics that slow the game down and this is maybe the

28:48

best time to bring this up. Here's a comment

28:50

I got on every single one of my qualifiers and

28:53

I'll explain to you why we got

28:55

it. At the end of the game

28:58

someone every single time 100% of

29:00

the time someone said well we got that

29:02

done pretty quick. Every time. Let

29:05

me tell you why. Let me tell you why. And it's

29:07

maybe a little it's a little controlling. I can understand someone

29:10

from the audience perspective being like man

29:12

Hunter really runs the agenda phase regardless

29:14

of whether he's speaker or not. Yeah.

29:16

Well guess what that's why. Yeah. Get

29:18

through it. That's why we get it

29:20

done fast because the agenda phase is

29:22

where the players all slow down. It's

29:24

where we lose the most time. Yep.

29:27

And as long as you just remind people of

29:29

where and all I do this is all I

29:31

do by the way is I start the agenda

29:33

phase as soon as we can. Yeah. Soon as

29:36

the tokens are allotted and we've returned a strategy

29:38

cards I do it. Yep. I

29:40

read the agenda clearly to everybody.

29:44

They can hear it. And then as we

29:46

have that little if you're playing on TTP TTP. So

29:48

I'm calling it

29:56

TTP. If you're on page if you're on

29:58

TTP page. And you

30:00

will have that little window in front of you and all

30:02

I do just say out loud what window we're in I

30:05

do the same Why I read

30:07

a thing I because people will just not look

30:09

at that thing and I'll just it the thing

30:11

at the bottom says Any when purple and I'm

30:13

sitting there going any wins purple and then anyway

30:15

to her any wins red Okay Anyway, and you

30:18

just like read the thing because you just you

30:20

just need it They need visual and audio cue

30:22

of when it's their time to do things Let

30:24

me tell you I'm not doing this because I

30:26

like it I'm doing it because I want the

30:29

game to be fast But if somebody told me

30:31

they were gonna do it exactly that I would

30:33

happily oh, it'd be so much I'd be so

30:35

much more down right it to be that

30:37

way Oh, yeah, so so that was a

30:39

comment I got every single time you can

30:41

all do it You can all do a

30:43

five hour a six hour game even with

30:45

strangers. I'm proved it. I've literally proved it,

30:48

right? And hey in

30:50

the errata my opponent shout

30:52

out if you're one of that person one of those people

30:54

that said Wow, we got that done really fast you every

30:56

single game had at least one person that said that So

30:59

yeah, it can be done. Right?

31:02

Well, let's talk a little bit more about

31:04

we were talking about scheduling. We were talking

31:06

about getting ahead of things I want to

31:08

open it up a little bit more broadly

31:10

just about the scheduling process of these qualifiers

31:12

I will note your first game of the

31:14

qualifiers you kind of You used

31:16

it as a little bit of a treat That was

31:18

your one where you like you played with squeamoo and

31:20

collude you played with your group in it And if

31:22

anything, I kind of wish you had done that a

31:24

little bit more I'll

31:27

note your other games were all essentially

31:30

You signed that you filled out a thing for

31:32

a game and five people very quickly showed up,

31:34

right? Yeah, well except for there was there

31:36

was a time or two where that wasn't the case Yeah But

31:39

I kind of wanted to make special

31:41

mention of the the last time your

31:43

your last game you kind of did

31:45

your normal operating procedure to just

31:47

like sign up and then people started signing up or whatever

31:49

and We

31:52

saw some names show up like again

31:54

It was like the the second or even I don't know if

31:56

there was three I don't know if you played with anybody three

31:58

times that might be too a step too

32:00

far, but some of the same names signed up

32:03

again and Scheduling

32:05

stuff came up you had to bow out you ended

32:07

up joining a game at the absolute like last minute

32:10

You were like what like maybe the sixth player in

32:12

that game. It's like like that something like that Did

32:15

you feel like there was a different? I mean

32:17

that ended up being the game you won too

32:19

with the one where it was like nobody got

32:21

to cover a snipe hunter So I'm just curious

32:23

if that like scheduling process and then like repeat

32:25

people like how all of that sort of felt

32:27

out I don't know because

32:30

So like the that even that last game

32:32

actually did have a player I played with

32:34

before actually may have even had two players

32:36

Mm-hmm. I played with a lot of the

32:38

same people play with a Sunday crew I

32:41

mean basically realistically you were playing mostly on

32:43

Sundays and there are people who are available

32:45

on Sunday, so that's to be expected Amazing.

32:47

I'm sure lots of people have that same

32:49

experience, right? I'm a Monday player Well, there's

32:51

all of 15 of us or whatever

32:53

right so the Monday people play with each other

32:56

a lot There were some

32:58

interesting Aspects of that though that I really

33:00

liked so like you said, I want to

33:02

cut back to a couple things though Oh,

33:04

of course. Yes, so that first game I

33:06

sort of I sort of I

33:08

told the people that I like That

33:10

I was like hey, I'm

33:12

gonna play a game. I let them know they

33:15

signed up It was it felt a

33:17

little dirty a little bit stacking the deck and

33:19

also I'll say this it felt like a

33:22

normal game for me Yeah playing with my

33:24

regulars people that I dig and I was like, this is

33:26

not the point of the sure

33:28

journey Yeah, so I decided to not do

33:30

that anymore. Now. I gave myself one

33:33

whatever if you got a problem with that Maybe

33:36

make your own tournament. Well, also you didn't win that

33:38

game. So you weren't standing with ya. Oh, yeah Yeah,

33:40

well, yeah, I mean I I sacked the

33:42

deck with killers It

33:44

was really good people Anyways,

33:46

I started just playing random games But I

33:49

want to talk specifically about what it's like to play

33:51

with the same people over and over because there is

33:53

this whole Like meta

33:55

thing that was happening so

33:58

I played with With one player,

34:00

I'm not gonna name anybody by the way.

34:02

And also, I'm not interested in like Burning

34:04

Br- this is not, I've joked about this

34:07

being about Talking Smack. I'm not, I'm earnestly

34:09

trying to get like good kernels of

34:11

nuggets that might be useful for people

34:13

to understand how this system works. But

34:17

I did have a player that broke

34:19

a non-binding deal and

34:21

it was in the final round and honestly, I think,

34:23

I'm not sure it cost me the game, but who

34:25

can say? Definitely, it hurt

34:28

my standing quite a lot.

34:31

And then later, I played another game

34:34

with this player. Isn't that

34:36

wild? Like that's just kind of

34:38

a crazy thing. That's bold. That's,

34:40

yeah. Oh, yeah. So,

34:43

and it was hard to know how to play against

34:45

that. I kind of wanted to

34:47

just blow up their spot and say, hey,

34:50

this person breaks non-bindings really

34:52

bad, which put a lot of

34:54

pressure on that player, I will

34:56

add. They ended up kind

34:59

of asking for an early support swap

35:01

and which I was like, no. But

35:04

then they threw in their ceasefire and I

35:07

was like, well, that's like actually too sweet of a

35:10

deal. I mean, that's like I got kind of, because

35:12

now if I've got the ceasefire, you know,

35:14

of course, the whole thing about ceasefire is you

35:16

don't have to keep it, right? So, I feel

35:18

like I'm like, you're not only support swapping with

35:21

me, you're giving me a little bit of late

35:23

game leverage on you because we were

35:25

in like round two. It was early.

35:27

Yeah. So, I ended up

35:29

going for that and I

35:31

did not blow up their spot, which I regret

35:34

because they broke another non-binding deal in the late

35:36

game of that game. So, this person clearly,

35:38

and I will say just this, if you know who, if you

35:40

know, I mean, I don't even think this person listens. I

35:42

don't think they care at all. I

35:45

think that that may

35:47

be the qualifier format because

35:49

you might be seeing these players again, there

35:51

actually is a lot of built-in

35:54

maybe wait to break those non-bindings when you

35:56

get to the prelims or the semis or

35:58

even the finals. The

36:00

likelihood that you are going to play another one of

36:02

these players again is quite high. Yeah. And

36:05

I think there's more pressure to

36:07

hold to the non-binding. Yeah.

36:11

Yeah, I mean what like Big Al is in a

36:13

lot of trouble, right? Big Al has always been known

36:15

as like a let's do all sorts of deals. Yeah.

36:17

And his qualifier win was a

36:19

somewhat now infamous absolute

36:24

unequivocal backstab. Just a breaking this deal

36:26

and it's so that I can win

36:28

the game. And like that's all

36:30

well and good but now Big Al has to play

36:32

a prelim against some other people and Big Al is

36:34

going to want to talk to all these players. Right.

36:37

And I don't see any reason for those players

36:39

to think that Big Al's changed his ways. He'll

36:41

try to sell you on the idea that he's

36:43

definitely changed his ways. He oh it felt so

36:45

dirty to do that bad thing. But

36:47

if it's the difference between the win and not, we

36:50

all know where he'll shake out. Exactly.

36:54

I do think that yeah that's a good use of

36:57

this episode. So let's completely blow up Big Al. No

37:00

non bindings with Big Al like ever really at this

37:02

point. I mean like that's critical. He needs to lose

37:04

in the prelim so he can help us stream the

37:06

prelims. It's the same logic of why he needed to

37:08

win that early in the qualifier. He

37:11

needs to be free up for more streaming. Here's

37:13

the thing. It's like and I

37:15

do think that there's a way I like

37:17

to disagree with I'll go deeper on this Big

37:19

Al thing. Actually, it'd be great to use them

37:22

as an example because I think most people that

37:24

care already know. So we are not

37:26

actually shining a light on this. I do

37:30

think there's a bit of a miscalculation here Big Al. If

37:32

you want to come on in. Let's bring Big Al in

37:34

to the room. He doesn't get to respond. We're

37:37

talking to him. How's it going boys?

37:39

Yeah alright it's me Big Al. So

37:43

the miscalculation here is that the

37:45

qualifiers are not the breaking

37:47

non bindings round. Because

37:50

now during the prelims you got one

37:53

shot. You don't get to come back. So

37:56

the thing is Big Al could have held to his

37:58

word and still would have had it. had another

38:00

try, another try, could have

38:03

still gotten a prelim spot. Especially

38:05

considering how many tries I'm sure

38:07

he would have been able to give it, would

38:10

have likely done it. But now he's coming in

38:12

in disgrace. I mean let's be real. In

38:15

disgrace. And I mean will anyone ever

38:17

let go of it? Certainly not me and

38:19

I'm going to repeat it on the podcast every week for

38:21

the rest of my life. So he's ruined.

38:23

I mean there's no way for him to ever win another

38:25

game. We did it folks. And

38:27

think about, okay, but now take that

38:30

type of pressure and imagine me

38:32

and Matt. Like it's like, it is sort

38:34

of like that. It is like we are sort

38:37

of telling on ourselves every week here and

38:39

shining a light on everything that

38:42

we do. Oh that's been my, this

38:44

has been where I've lived for three years. I've

38:47

since the impetus of the show been known

38:49

as a person who doesn't necessarily hold true.

38:53

The way I think about this stuff is I'll

38:56

break a non-binding because I actually know

38:58

that you will too. And I'm the

39:00

global you, the non-personally. The royal you.

39:02

The royal you. Because what

39:04

I've seen so many times is

39:06

people saying I'm not breaking

39:09

the deal but I'm changing the deal or

39:11

whatever. People will just milk it

39:13

however they want. But realistically if it comes

39:15

down to a game-winning move, you'll almost

39:17

always, like you're not going to just not

39:19

take the win. Especially in a tournament setting.

39:21

Like you'll go for the win. It's just

39:23

the truth of the matter. So like for

39:25

me it's like I don't like setting up

39:28

these ugly non-bindings in the first place. Because

39:30

why give either of us the opportunity to

39:32

upend this whole thing or whatever. But I

39:34

certainly was just known as the person

39:36

who was a vocal proponent of like I think

39:38

it's all BS anyways. Like I don't really buy

39:40

into this like honor system that we all pretend

39:42

to have. And because of

39:44

that, because I'm just even saying I

39:47

don't buy it, I get

39:49

worse deals. I get less deals. There's

39:51

still sometimes games I can make kind of weird deals

39:53

happen. But for the most part, people are like I

39:55

just don't trust you. And it's like yeah I mean,

39:57

I guess you probably shouldn't. And

40:00

I think realistically, when you talk about

40:02

games going long, so often, like

40:05

the players I'm on the lookout for are

40:07

the ones where I can tell all they're

40:09

trying to do is like get such cockamamie

40:12

deals going that certainly it could never be

40:14

upheld later, right? It's just like they've made

40:16

such a confusing document, legal document

40:18

that would never stand up in court, basically.

40:21

You know what I mean? That's how I

40:23

feel about the really talky players stuff. And

40:25

maybe myself included in this, I don't know.

40:27

But it's like you

40:29

make deals you know will just kind of fall

40:31

apart anyways or whatever. And so,

40:34

yeah, I've absolutely gotten

40:36

less deals over time

40:38

because people know

40:40

I don't necessarily believe in the

40:42

heart of being an

40:45

upstanding citizen in TI or whatever. Well,

40:47

you're wearing a bone helmet in hell

40:49

or whatever. So,

40:52

let's talk about a difference in between

40:54

us. I will

40:56

keep to my word and lose a

40:59

game to hold my word because I think

41:01

that that meta play over

41:03

the course of many, many games

41:06

and because I am public,

41:08

I think I have to be very, very careful

41:10

whenever and I'm not saying that I'm

41:13

100%. I'm

41:15

not saying that I but

41:17

generally speaking, if

41:19

I am saying something like

41:22

if I'm making some sort of non-binding promise,

41:24

I'm going to keep it because I'm out

41:26

here, I'm in the marathon. It's not a

41:28

sprint for me. I'm trying to have you

41:31

know a good ratio overall.

41:33

I'm not necessarily going to

41:35

throw out my credibility to

41:37

win one game. So,

41:40

and I have a great example of this actually. So,

41:43

in the game that I ended up winning,

41:46

which was definitely the final round

41:48

was not a certainty but I

41:50

definitely had some good things in my pocket. I

41:53

actually made a deal that

41:56

ended up getting me leadership and

41:58

the deal was that I would play leadership first

42:01

action. However, once

42:03

I got leadership, if I had decided to

42:05

solve, I would have made it

42:07

so that no one could even talk about winsling.

42:09

It would have just been like, well, Hunter wins

42:12

and there's nothing. But I held to my word

42:14

and I actually immediately got a message from someone

42:16

saying, I can't believe you're doing this.

42:18

You could just solve it out and win.

42:20

Like it's not worth it. And I

42:22

still won anyway. So whatever. It

42:24

worked out that time. But I

42:26

think it is important for

42:30

someone when you're playing in a tournament

42:32

or when you're public facing to realize

42:34

that anytime you're going to hurt your

42:36

own credibility, there might be a consequence

42:39

for it in a future game. Which

42:42

I actually think is actually represented

42:44

in the way Twilight and Period is supposed to

42:46

work from the beginning. We all have the classic

42:48

story of, oh, the six of us meet up,

42:51

last game, you did so and so to me and

42:53

now I've remembered and so I'm going to react this

42:55

way. So this is part of the course. This

42:57

is actually us preserving an essential part of the

42:59

game. I also want to

43:01

talk about the way this plays out in a

43:03

completely different way. So I had a game early

43:05

on, I don't remember which game it was.

43:08

It's hard for me to separate them. It's

43:10

hard for me to separate them. It was like many

43:12

weeks. There was

43:14

a game where a SAR player was like,

43:17

I'm going to try and

43:19

extort you by invading your

43:21

slice. Now I'm not sure it

43:23

was blocking any points that were visible.

43:25

Actually I think maybe it was blocking a secret

43:28

objective that they did not know about. But

43:30

they were sort of trying to talk me

43:32

into giving up my

43:35

ceasefire to have them not

43:37

do this. Which of course, and they

43:39

were SAR. And of course I

43:41

was not in favor. I was like, whatever, just do it. Because

43:43

that's always how I've kind of held to that. And

43:46

in the end, I did not win the game.

43:50

Actually it did shake, I

43:52

think it shook me out so much that it was

43:54

kind of difficult. I had other priorities I had to

43:56

work on now. I had to work on scoring objectives

43:58

and I had to work with. Like

44:00

a sorrow ball being in my slice. Yeah

44:02

the player though did get eliminated by the

44:04

table So

44:07

like it overall I would

44:09

say That play did not work

44:11

out in their favor. It could have I want to

44:13

add that it could have worked out in their favor

44:15

But when you when you kind of in

44:17

the mid game if you sort of make an intense play like

44:19

that I feel like what you're saying is like i'm

44:22

kind of betting the farm on this playing

44:24

out But we really have no idea.

44:26

We're just making blind investments right now. Yeah

44:28

hoping that we're gonna get something right

44:30

And it came up no good this same

44:33

player was then in my final

44:35

game. No, I didn't I

44:37

didn't remember this They

44:39

told me at the end of the game and all

44:41

of a sudden everything clicked into place because I

44:44

had a nice neighbor That

44:46

game i'm sitting next to someone

44:48

who i'm like playing defensively with them I'm

44:50

like trying to make sure that they don't

44:53

have like a way in and i'm realizing

44:55

that they're kind of Playing soft-handedly

44:57

with me. Yeah, and it's because the last game

44:59

that they played with me They went so hard

45:01

on me that it ended up getting them eliminated

45:03

from the game, right? Which is a bummer. Nobody

45:05

wants to get eliminated. You don't even get to

45:08

play anymore Although actually I kind of if i'm

45:10

gonna lose I may as well be eliminated in

45:12

my opinion Personally like

45:14

actually if i'm a loser like what do

45:16

I care? What do I care if i'm

45:18

eliminated? It doesn't it doesn't hurt my feelings

45:20

on top of losing your if anything, it's

45:22

a much cooler way to lose But I

45:24

they told me that at the end and

45:27

I I don't think it like

45:29

super influenced Like their

45:31

gameplay, but it influenced their stance when

45:33

it came to me. Yeah, which was

45:35

it felt a little bit like I

45:39

don't I I want to have good

45:41

meta with this person Yeah Because in

45:43

that last game it it

45:45

kind of it came to blows and I

45:47

was and we were able to figure out

45:50

how to Ultimately, yeah eliminate the person So

45:52

I do think there is a really interesting

45:54

like meta game to game thing that happens

45:56

in the qualifiers That if if I

45:58

had sacked the deck in every time I'm like sort

46:00

of let my people know that I'm

46:03

that I'm playing a game and that you should join I

46:05

wouldn't have gotten that right much It would have just been

46:07

like traditional the group of players that I play with and

46:09

I feel like I learned a lot From

46:12

playing with you know, a lot of

46:14

a lot of people that I that I didn't know. Yeah,

46:16

basically Yeah, I mean to push this even once

46:18

up further and I don't think we should belabor this point because

46:20

it's not Fun to talk about

46:22

but it's definitely why you should

46:25

just be a nice good person

46:27

in the qualifiers Even if you're

46:29

gonna like do mean tactics Certainly

46:32

nobody wants to play with the butt head again

46:34

or anything like that Right and and I feel

46:36

like that was always my fear with this new

46:38

qualifier format is just like who knows

46:40

how people are gonna Act or whatever but you

46:43

know that it's gonna probably push Some

46:46

butt heads to the side just because it's

46:48

like people just won't play with them

46:50

or they won't play nice with them or whatever But

46:52

what I don't want and what I

46:54

fear is that maybe some

46:56

some moods have gotten Worse in this year's

46:58

tournament a little bit of the jovialness that

47:00

maybe we've had in previous years has gone

47:03

Down a little bit. I don't know But

47:06

that you know, that's always my thing with this tournament is

47:08

I just want it to be a good time I want

47:10

people to play to their best But that

47:12

doesn't mean letting like the salt spill onto

47:14

the table or whatever. I think

47:17

generally speaking The

47:19

games that I played as far as like the

47:21

players relationships with each other Yeah was I think

47:24

pretty positive Like if if I

47:26

take if I take most of the games Overall,

47:29

I think people were having a pretty good

47:31

time with each other. Yeah, there was definitely

47:33

salt sure There was definitely there was

47:35

there was one time in in one

47:37

of my games where I got too salty and I feel

47:39

really Bad about it It

47:42

it was a bummer and I feel

47:44

like it was kind of because of

47:46

I just I misspoke I shouldn't

47:48

have I shouldn't have said something

47:50

the way I said it I gave the

47:52

player a completely different impression of like where

47:54

I was at with a particular timing window

47:57

Because I was kind of trying to egg them on

48:02

into attacking me, which is kind of like

48:04

a common... I do

48:06

something a lot that

48:09

I don't even necessarily like describing and because I

48:11

don't want to give away that I do this,

48:13

but I do strategic... I try to hit

48:16

people to attack me. And the

48:19

reason I do this is because I think it's

48:21

a defensive thing that I've developed because I just

48:23

get attacked a lot in games. So

48:25

if I... So like let's... Here's like a

48:28

classic one. Let's say

48:30

I have like Hopesend

48:32

or Primore or whatever,

48:35

which is like it's

48:37

cool to have, but in

48:39

the late game is actually not really that cool,

48:41

right? It's actually kind of a liability. You can

48:44

pull shard and then suddenly you don't like this.

48:47

Especially with Hopesend, after you get your mechs out, who

48:49

cares? It's just three resources. If you're

48:51

playing the right faction, you don't even need three resources. So

48:54

if you kind of like leave things

48:57

unspent, like the ability

48:59

or you leave the planet unspent and

49:01

you lightly defend it, you can kind

49:03

of coax people into coming

49:05

into your slice in a strategic way that

49:09

can sort of be

49:11

advantageous because if you're in the late

49:13

game and you're trying to make a

49:16

case for, well, I'm in trouble, sometimes

49:18

it's good to like strategically invite people

49:20

in. And it's tough.

49:22

It's like a risky gambit type situation.

49:25

But I do feel like sometimes

49:29

I don't let the players know that

49:31

I need more time to think about

49:33

the situation. And

49:35

instead, I'm trying to play as fast as

49:37

possible. And I do

49:39

feel like I got burned a little bit

49:41

by not slowing the tempo down because

49:44

I don't like, I want the game

49:46

to move, move quickly. So

49:49

there was definitely a time where I felt

49:51

like I got super heated with a player

49:53

and I'm like not happy with it. There

49:55

were times where other players did get heated with each

49:57

other, but I think overall, no one... No

50:00

one crossed the line into making

50:02

it so personal that that we

50:04

could not just have a good

50:06

chat afterwards And there was a lot of

50:08

really good post game discussion in most of

50:11

my games where I felt like okay We're

50:13

we're coming back together here that it was

50:15

the heat of the competition, but like we're

50:17

okay Yeah, you know like going forward there

50:19

were some times where me being a tournament

50:21

organizer I feel like kind of bit me

50:23

in the butt because I

50:26

feel like I can't Have

50:29

much of a say in the

50:31

rulings of like certain of course

50:33

like how the tournament game is

50:35

being litigated Yeah, I sort of I think defer a

50:37

little bit too much to the other players. Yeah, you

50:40

do Oh, I hear here. I'll take let me take

50:42

the mic on this Yeah, go ahead because uh because

50:44

I've edited a few of your games and I've added

50:46

a few of your losses and And

50:49

also I just know you as a person and this is

50:51

definitely one of your Things

50:54

is if you if you start to

50:56

feel the tides Maybe

50:59

not even turning yet, but it's just like it

51:01

You know it's the end of

51:03

low tide and you expect the tides to turn

51:06

you'll just start Kind of

51:08

giving it up almost to like what you're saying

51:10

of like you know you you'll open up your

51:12

hopes end belly to somebody I think you do

51:14

that kind of generally speaking in these games, and

51:16

there were certainly instances where? The

51:19

players were not necessarily even

51:22

Asking for a ruling to go a

51:24

certain way But you would kind of

51:26

offer it up to them of just like well you I mean

51:29

whatever you guys can do it this way because Like

51:31

you're saying it's it's almost a defense

51:33

mechanism of you certainly don't want the

51:36

claim to be that you Obfuscated

51:38

or that you do something weirdly

51:40

rules backwards right so you are

51:43

like almost Overly

51:45

forward you jump out it's like well if you

51:47

guys would like to kind of

51:49

fudge the rules Then just

51:51

do that because you certainly it can't

51:54

be you that is the one being called out for

51:56

fudging the rules I would say for the most part.

51:58

This is your thing. I mean that The

52:01

big one of note to me, maybe we

52:03

can call it out specifically, especially because we

52:06

have a good relationship with Duval, but there

52:08

was a moment with Duval that had to

52:11

do with what ships

52:13

he was bringing to combat or

52:15

whatever. And I

52:17

don't, in my edit, my recollection of it is

52:19

that nobody even brought up like, well, you could change the

52:21

move if you want, except for you. You then brought it

52:24

up because Duval was kind of like, oh, that's not what

52:26

I meant to do. I'm upset about this. I'm frustrated that

52:28

this is the way it is. This is the way that

52:30

this happened. And you were kind of like,

52:32

then, I mean, what if you want to bring different ships,

52:34

like bring different ships? And like, no

52:36

reason for you to do that. But in your

52:38

head, you're thinking in your head, you're like, I

52:40

don't want to be the person who's just like,

52:42

haha, I'm capitalizing on your mistake and not letting

52:44

you take anything back. We've

52:47

had takesie-backsies. We've had little stuff. You know,

52:49

let's let this big one slide because I certainly

52:52

don't want to be accused of, you

52:55

know, being sneaky or underhanded or

52:57

whatever. So I think that's

52:59

an interesting dynamic. And I mean, if anything, that's like

53:02

the number one reason when

53:04

people are like, Matt, you should play in the tournament. And

53:06

I'm like, haha, absolutely not. Part of

53:08

that is because my horribly fragile eco

53:10

just couldn't take it. And second, it's

53:12

because I don't want this

53:14

problem. I already hate getting

53:16

called into a game to give a tough ruling.

53:18

And I try to put on a brave face

53:21

and just said, we're doing it this way and

53:23

I've got to leave the room now. The reason

53:25

I leave the room quickly is because I don't

53:27

want to listen to the fallout of being upset

53:29

about the thing. I don't like getting those ruling

53:31

the criticism and I would hate being

53:34

a part of one of those rulings with me in the game.

53:36

I would do the same thing you do, Hunter, where it's just

53:38

like, I don't know, just kill me, just kill me. Just whatever

53:40

it is, just kill me. I can't be

53:42

present for this. Well,

53:44

yeah, I mean, I'm going to add a

53:46

little bit of context

53:48

here. I think another part of it

53:50

is that at the end of the day, like

53:52

I wanted to make it to the prelims, I

53:54

would have been just as happy to do this

53:56

episode though, not making

53:59

it just Lost every game and

54:01

it would not have changed my own perspective

54:03

on my own game and how good I

54:05

am at Twilight Imperium at all

54:07

wouldn't change it one iota and the

54:10

thing is at the end of the day I When

54:14

I whenever something like that comes up, I know

54:16

that in the long run Well,

54:19

actually here, let me zoom out a little bit.

54:21

This is this we're kind of going all over the place I

54:23

want to talk about Waterman's law So

54:26

waterman's law. Yes, this is from another podcast.

54:28

This is from the the root podcast woodland

54:30

war really just from the root community in

54:32

general But water

54:35

man Kyle is on the

54:37

woodland war machine podcast and in a

54:39

tournament game in one of Garrix samples

54:41

games is root winter tournament

54:43

games Waterman

54:45

is now famous for

54:47

saying You are

54:50

under no obligation to help your

54:52

opponent's win, right? and I

54:55

think that works and

54:58

I think I would feel exactly like that if

55:00

I was playing in someone else's tournament Mm-hmm. The

55:03

fact of the matter is me playing in our

55:05

tournament. Yeah feels like a conflict of interest in

55:07

that way, right? but also if I

55:11

Help you win and you take

55:14

that help Sort

55:16

of just means I won It's

55:18

sort of just such a sadgitary It's

55:22

sort of just means actually you maybe

55:25

you would have won this game But you sort

55:27

of needed my help to do it. So

55:29

like to be honest, no shade

55:32

at Duval, but You

55:34

did need my help to win. I got you

55:36

is what you're saying. I got you in any

55:38

way Do

55:41

I take I mean do I take

55:43

any umbridge with the idea that

55:45

I mean, yes Maybe you would

55:47

have won on your own but you needed

55:49

daddy's help and because daddy helped you then

55:51

you were able to win You know, I

55:54

and also at the end of the day. I am it

55:56

is more important to me at

56:01

People learn about Twilight Imperium then it is

56:03

that they think that I'm good at it.

56:05

Yeah, I am a teacher first I am

56:07

not I am not here

56:10

to Show

56:12

that I'm the best. Yeah, because

56:14

I'm not in

56:17

my opinion And

56:19

he doesn't do a podcast so he doesn't do

56:21

a podcast actually that's what I got Yeah,

56:24

the best players in the world will never do a podcast because

56:26

they're not gonna tell you what they think about the game

56:28

They're gonna beat you with their secret strategies I

56:31

just like I just feel like mantis has

56:33

the most create like the creativity there He

56:35

keeps the whole game in his in his

56:37

brain. Yeah, he's like the best It's like

56:39

that that in-between point of creative do whatever

56:42

and also I have the whole game memorized

56:44

when mantis wins There was

56:46

no other outcome available. You know what I mean?

56:48

That's yeah when when I just credit my wins

56:50

It's cuz I'm looking for a mantis style win

56:53

where it's like I don't want it to be

56:55

because of shenanigans I wanted to be because I

56:57

found the way to win and there wasn't a

56:59

way I could stop it and that is Absolutely

57:01

how mantis wins. Yeah But

57:04

yeah So but back to what I was

57:07

saying is more important for me to

57:09

feel like a good teacher of TI than it

57:11

is For me to win games.

57:14

I truly think of myself as someone that is

57:16

trying to be an ambassador for this game and

57:20

Teach you as much about it as possible.

57:22

I I feel like I try to play

57:25

As Generic as possible

57:27

because of this I like to

57:29

try and be what is the

57:31

pragmatic? Vanilla

57:34

way to approach this game. I

57:36

know that some of my own personal style gets into

57:38

it I know that there's no avoiding that but

57:41

I do actually try to like I just

57:43

want to understand What

57:45

is the optimal way to play this game

57:48

in a vacuum with no with with less

57:50

fanciness attached to it? and So

57:54

therefore like I don't know when stuff like that comes up.

57:56

I'm just sort of like yeah, so I don't need to

57:58

win Okay, right And,

58:00

you know, don't need it more, you

58:02

know, you just... Well,

58:05

I mean, hopefully this can be the

58:07

lesson of genuinely speaking, the people I

58:10

see who enjoy the tournament the most

58:12

are the ones who don't need the win,

58:14

right? The people that find

58:17

wins anyways, but are like having a

58:19

good time, those are my favorite players

58:21

to watch. Those are my favorite players to like see go through

58:23

this stuff. It's hard for me

58:25

to see people who are like

58:29

hurting themselves to

58:31

get the W or whatever, to see

58:33

myself in them. I know that emotional

58:35

state and everything. And

58:37

it's not good. I don't think it's good. That's

58:40

why it's hilarious that we do this tournament

58:42

because I think it is mostly a bad

58:44

thing. I don't think tournaments are good for

58:46

all of us, aside from the community building

58:48

aspect of it. We do this

58:50

tournament because we just want a really good excuse to like

58:52

bring all of us together and do something that's a good

58:55

time. It's just that sometimes we forget that it's for a

58:57

good time and we start trying to do it for

58:59

a big serious time. And I think that loses

59:01

the value of it a little bit. I

59:04

think had I not been in my tournament games,

59:06

I think they would have been like, great, actually.

59:09

More chill. I think they would have been like

59:11

chiller, like there just would have been less for

59:13

people to like specifically like

59:15

kind of, I don't know. I mean, it's

59:17

like I said before, like there is no...

59:21

If we're in a game together and you

59:23

win and I lose, it's not that you

59:25

specifically beat all of those players. It's not

59:28

arm wrestling. We

59:32

are all just kind of in this like

59:34

soup together and one of us trying to

59:36

like pull up themselves onto the

59:38

top of the cliff. But

59:40

I don't know. I mean, it's not the... Like really

59:43

great players that have proven

59:45

that they can perform consistently,

59:47

they still lose a lot.

59:51

No one has yet to completely

59:53

dominate this game. It

59:56

just has never happened. So

59:58

thus far does not seem to be a good thing.

1:00:00

impossible. We've got some consistent players out there.

1:00:03

We don't have people that we've never had

1:00:05

a repeat winner of the

1:00:07

entire tournament. We've never had a repeat

1:00:09

finalist. We've never

1:00:11

we've had people that got

1:00:13

close. We've had people that were semi-finalists more

1:00:16

than once. We've had people that were semi-finalists

1:00:18

and then a finalist. But no

1:00:20

one has been able to prove like, oh

1:00:22

yeah, I just win all the time. I

1:00:25

just win constantly and there's no other because

1:00:27

my approach is so dominant that it is

1:00:29

just going to get results every time. It's

1:00:31

not a thing. Yeah, there's

1:00:33

been a lot of discussion recently

1:00:36

in the strategy channel about elimination.

1:00:39

Susan has had a recent treatise about

1:00:41

elimination and I think Susan is a

1:00:43

brilliant player. I love Susan. I think

1:00:45

what gets misconstrued, not by Susan, but

1:00:47

by people talking with Susan about like

1:00:50

heavy-handed physical play, we'll

1:00:52

call it, right? Plastic-centric elimination

1:00:55

play is almost to your point

1:00:57

about the star player, right?

1:00:59

It's extremely high risk, high reward.

1:01:02

And if anything, adopting it as

1:01:04

like your core philosophy assumes like

1:01:06

such a knowledge of the

1:01:08

costs and benefits and values of

1:01:11

things that like I most

1:01:14

people cannot do that.

1:01:17

And it's proven out that

1:01:19

those players, maybe they are equally

1:01:21

consistent to the teddies

1:01:24

and the disheugas of the world, right?

1:01:27

But it's certainly not proven to be a more

1:01:30

effective strategy, I think is the big

1:01:32

thing. So I'm even here willing to

1:01:34

give ground for more violent matters. I

1:01:36

mean, last year we saw Cabal do

1:01:38

very, very well. I think they're doing

1:01:40

okay this year. I think there's been

1:01:42

some violent play that has proven out

1:01:44

and done well in this

1:01:46

qualifiers, but there's no answer. There's no

1:01:49

correct. There's no best way to do this

1:01:51

stuff except for adapting to

1:01:53

whatever the other five people sitting in front

1:01:55

of you are doing. And that's like the

1:01:57

number one thing. So, you know, if Hunter

1:02:00

I think if you have one skill in

1:02:02

this whole game, I think you have many, but if

1:02:05

I had to isolate one, it's that when you

1:02:07

sit at a table, you adapt to the table

1:02:09

kind of no matter what. And maybe, you know,

1:02:11

you don't like become a salesman suddenly, but if

1:02:13

there's a salesman at the table, you have a

1:02:15

way to deal with the salesman and you're prepared

1:02:17

to deal with the salesman and you have a

1:02:19

strategy for that person. And if there's a plastic

1:02:21

heavy person, you have an idea of how to

1:02:23

treat them and you don't ever assume

1:02:26

someone needs to push the

1:02:28

game's meta into your format,

1:02:31

right? You see these players where it's like,

1:02:33

let me grab this game by the horns

1:02:35

and try to make sure it's under my

1:02:37

meta. You will just play to the

1:02:40

meta and maybe you'll get a win, maybe you won't.

1:02:42

I mean, it is a toss up

1:02:44

because every game at TI is more or less a toss up,

1:02:47

right? I do think that I

1:02:49

agree with what you're saying in an aspirational sense. I

1:02:52

don't think I always achieve that, but I think that

1:02:54

is what I am looking for. And

1:02:59

I think regardless of whether

1:03:01

you are a Maratrash or

1:03:03

a Euro, you know,

1:03:07

it's like I, there's almost this like attitude right

1:03:09

now that I get sometimes I'm thinking

1:03:11

about like the different regional differences where it's

1:03:14

like the Euros have cast themselves as like

1:03:16

these like violent, like nasty

1:03:18

little gremlin. But

1:03:20

the only winner is Dushuga who is like one

1:03:22

of the more talky players I know of and

1:03:24

one of the more like, let's just, hey, let's

1:03:27

keep everybody even, right? Nobody needs to get ahead.

1:03:29

Nobody needs to fall behind. Let's play a game

1:03:31

together. Like, but actually

1:03:33

I think that

1:03:36

if you analyze the

1:03:38

situations, if you had a lot of data in

1:03:40

front of you, I think you would find that

1:03:42

actually everyone is playing a lot more similar than

1:03:44

they say. There's a lot of attitude on top

1:03:46

of it. There's a lot of table attitude. But

1:03:49

there is a lot of the same stuff happening

1:03:52

across the board. And I want to say that too.

1:03:54

Like I do think the game like does

1:03:56

kind of lead to a style that is

1:04:00

Maybe a little, sometimes it's really boat floaty,

1:04:03

sometimes it's a little bit boat floaty, sometimes

1:04:05

it's really violent, sometimes it's a little bit

1:04:07

violent. It's always somewhere on that spectrum

1:04:09

and I actually think that it

1:04:12

has more to do with what objectives are in

1:04:14

people's hands. That's what decides it and one

1:04:16

approach is not superior to the other in all

1:04:19

senses. So yeah, there's no way to know what is the right thing to

1:04:21

do with your game before it starts. Uh

1:04:27

oh, I just debunked the entire point of

1:04:29

the show. Oh,

1:04:31

looks like Space Cat's e-curdles doesn't make sense

1:04:33

anymore. Did you hear what I just said?

1:04:36

That was true. There's no advice anyone can

1:04:39

ever give you. Yeah, but I mean, yeah,

1:04:41

it is, it was definitely worthwhile, I think,

1:04:43

to go through the qualifiers. It

1:04:48

was a little bit, I think, stressful for

1:04:50

me to be in situations where I felt

1:04:53

like there was a lot of heat directed

1:04:55

at me. And,

1:04:57

you know, I

1:04:59

feel fine now. I mean, I have like real

1:05:02

life stuff that I'm worried about right now. Well,

1:05:05

and about TI tournament. Yeah. And

1:05:08

if anything too, I

1:05:10

think my biggest takeaway at this point is I do feel for the

1:05:12

people who are like playing every weekend

1:05:14

in the tournament, like that's hard. That's

1:05:16

a lot to do. Hunter already plays

1:05:18

every single weekend, but like the tournament

1:05:20

is different. Like knowing you're playing in

1:05:22

a tournament game every single weekend is

1:05:24

a different vibe than like, yeah, I'm

1:05:26

like working on a guide and I'm

1:05:28

playing with Squemu and Cardinal and whoever's

1:05:30

available. Like that's great to do every

1:05:32

weekend. Playing in the tournament is not

1:05:34

necessarily fun to do every single weekend.

1:05:37

I will admit that and it's our

1:05:39

tournament. Shout out to Cardinal

1:05:41

who streamed almost all of my games.

1:05:43

Amazing. That's the one you

1:05:45

want. Yeah,

1:05:47

that's a bummer. But I

1:05:50

had a lot of like me and Cardinal

1:05:52

also would have these conversations like after my

1:05:54

game and it was so great to have

1:05:56

his analysis on my gameplay. He also

1:05:58

in that. That moment we

1:06:00

talked about with Duval very much disagreed

1:06:02

with what I was doing which was kind of hilarious to watch

1:06:04

him be like, no, do not allow that. But

1:06:11

I mean turns out it was all just a

1:06:14

psychic test of Duval when he failed.

1:06:17

Oh, little baby Duval. My

1:06:19

little itty bitty baby. Basically

1:06:22

my backup. You know what I mean? Right.

1:06:25

If Duval wins the entire tournament, I won. You're welcome. That's

1:06:27

my new rule. And Duval didn't win nothing.

1:06:29

Duval has the most chances to win because

1:06:31

Hunter has six other players playing on

1:06:34

his behalf. I have

1:06:36

my proxy are out there. And

1:06:39

it's just a bummer. It's a bummer for my

1:06:41

proxies because they chose the low

1:06:43

path and won. How dare

1:06:46

they? They now have

1:06:48

no route to win the game. They have

1:06:50

no way to do it. I think you

1:06:52

need to avoid playing with any of them

1:06:54

in the prelims. That would be my one

1:06:57

rule as the prelims scheduler. I'm gonna keep

1:06:59

you out of their games. That's my number

1:07:01

one goal. I'm not gonna have anything

1:07:03

to do with the scheduling of my game. I will

1:07:06

have absolutely no, I mean I didn't have anything to

1:07:08

do with it last time and I

1:07:10

ain't gonna have anything to do with it this

1:07:12

time. So yeah, don't care. Don't care at all.

1:07:14

Sounds good. I'll play with anybody.

1:07:16

Don't put me in it with my

1:07:18

buddies though. Don't make me. I

1:07:21

will make you play against death. I just listen.

1:07:23

My hands are tied. I will make you play against death.

1:07:26

Because here's the thing. Here's the problem with the

1:07:28

prelims too. And I had to balance

1:07:30

this in my brain last time. When

1:07:34

you, once we get into the prelims, there's

1:07:37

okay, there's me getting to the semis, whatever.

1:07:39

That's fine. But then there's you

1:07:41

getting to the semis and if it's somebody I'm

1:07:43

excited about, I might just be like, oh well.

1:07:46

Like if you put me in a game with death and

1:07:48

it gets really heated and it's between me

1:07:50

and death in the final round, that's kind

1:07:53

of just a win-win for me. And

1:07:55

I could even be like, oh I don't really feel like going

1:07:57

to the semis. But I'd love to

1:07:59

watch. You know like so like

1:08:01

let's just get out of here. You know what I

1:08:03

mean? So like yeah, don't do that unless you want

1:08:06

to see me do that, you know, I'd love to

1:08:08

see you win make Against

1:08:10

yourself into the semis. I

1:08:12

think that I'm just saying I like don't make

1:08:15

it so I get a fringe benefit Yeah out

1:08:17

of the prelims winner being somebody I like watching

1:08:19

play. Uh-huh, you know, this is how I wise

1:08:21

This is the only way our wise gets into

1:08:23

the semi. Yo, you put me in a game

1:08:26

with our wise and That

1:08:28

boat flow is gonna be disgusting

1:08:41

Space cats p-certals are still proudly sponsored

1:08:44

by leader games and as 2023

1:08:47

comes to a close leader games just wanted

1:08:49

to wish everyone a happy end of year

1:08:51

and thank you all for being the best

1:08:54

Fans ever you can keep an eye out

1:08:56

for eventual Ahoy new Horizons late pledges and

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you can also still take advantage of arcs

1:09:01

late pledges through the end of January if

1:09:03

you have any interest in arcs you

1:09:05

do not want to miss out on these

1:09:07

late pledges It is a great way to

1:09:09

have massive savings on what the eventual retail

1:09:12

price will be on arcs and

1:09:14

its campaign Expansion but the most

1:09:16

important news is the River Folk

1:09:18

expansion merch is back on the

1:09:21

shop at leader games comm slash

1:09:23

SCPT there is a lizard cult beanie that

1:09:25

was out of stock for a while and

1:09:27

I need you all to know that it's

1:09:29

back In stock and you can get it

1:09:31

and everything's okay Your Christmas is safe and

1:09:33

I just want to thank leader games for

1:09:35

a wonderful 2023 I

1:09:45

want to thank our weird bears big alcobachina squeamish

1:09:47

emu breath for Cabala soul Kalu and Daryl carnal

1:09:50

Kindred spirit Alice and much sceps key Absol our

1:09:52

wise tank. I just noticed big week for Two

1:09:55

weird bears made it through I didn't think about the fact

1:09:57

that Alice and Emily chefs. Oh, yeah weird bears and both

1:10:00

of them made it through this week. Congratulations, you

1:10:02

two. Also, thank you to our

1:10:04

teensy sprouts, Kraken, Portmandia, Hercules, Relic Stan, Savant,

1:10:06

and Vince. You can rate this podcast on

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apps and give it stars. And we eat

1:10:11

them for sustenance. And then you can go

1:10:13

to our website, basecatspeaceturtles.com

1:10:15

for information about our Patreon, how

1:10:18

to get involved with things like

1:10:20

the Homebrewers Guild and the Twilight

1:10:22

Imperium Zero Edition project Hunter is

1:10:24

fielding. Also, we'll talk a

1:10:26

little bit about the

1:10:29

good, the yinsterhood of traveling

1:10:31

vans. We did not make this easy on

1:10:33

ourselves with our naming conventions, and I'm happy

1:10:36

for it. Also, please go

1:10:38

there for the limited time merch that we're

1:10:40

doing. We're trying to treat it like limited

1:10:42

runs of cool shirt designs. And then like

1:10:44

when a new shirt, when Sun Sanders makes

1:10:47

like a cool new shirt design, something

1:10:49

else will have to die to replace it.

1:10:51

And so there's just gonna be like a

1:10:53

revolving cast of cool shirts to get. That's

1:10:55

the goal. So get them while they're hot,

1:10:57

folks. Get them while they're hot. Okay,

1:11:00

we got some announcements. First of all, the

1:11:03

biggest one, well, actually, I wanna

1:11:05

do this first. So we have

1:11:07

in the show notes, we have a link to

1:11:09

a YouTube video. It is Il

1:11:11

Cap Games Italian Twilight

1:11:13

Imperium tutorial. It is a Twilight Imperium

1:11:16

tutorial entirely in Italian. It does have

1:11:18

subs in English if you wanna follow

1:11:20

along with a

1:11:23

tutorial for how to play Twilight Imperium

1:11:25

in general, but mostly I would say

1:11:27

the purpose of this is for the

1:11:29

Italian speaking audience to get Italian

1:11:33

explanation. Some sort of coverage.

1:11:37

This podcast is in English. Let's

1:11:40

say you're listening and you

1:11:42

speak English and Italian your

1:11:44

friend speaks Italian only. Well,

1:11:47

doesn't speak English. Speaks Italian, maybe speaks other

1:11:49

language. We don't have to know about your

1:11:51

friend. Your friend doesn't speak English. There's

1:11:53

too much information about your friend. I don't need to

1:11:55

know about their summer holidays in Denmark. This

1:11:58

is good promo. We're promoing. All

1:12:00

right, right now. So then you, the person

1:12:02

that speaks English and Italian, you go to

1:12:04

your Italian friend and you say Italian stuff

1:12:08

on your or whatever. And

1:12:10

then you tell your Italian friend

1:12:12

about this YouTube video so that

1:12:15

they can learn how to play

1:12:17

Twilight and Period in Italian and

1:12:19

at the end you say ciao.

1:12:22

Yeah, very good. And there you go. Very good. Hey,

1:12:25

also just shout out to any other people

1:12:28

creating TI content in other languages. It's hard to

1:12:30

get the word out about that stuff to people.

1:12:32

I think we've seen that many, many times. So

1:12:34

please always feel free to message Hunter or I.

1:12:37

We would love to plug that kind of stuff

1:12:39

more often if you are making this

1:12:41

kind of content for other languages or in

1:12:43

English too if you have stuff. We're

1:12:46

always trying to share these things. So yeah,

1:12:48

IlCap Games on YouTube. The link is in

1:12:50

the show notes. Upcoming

1:12:52

streams and whatnot. We already talked about the

1:12:54

holiday spectacular on December 23rd but can we

1:12:56

tease a little bit of what is going

1:12:59

to be involved in this year's holiday spectacular

1:13:01

so everyone is very excited to show up

1:13:03

for the action and hang out with our

1:13:05

stupid game. Yeah, well, so it

1:13:07

happens on December 23rd. We do not

1:13:09

have a time, like it's just gonna happen that

1:13:12

day. No, we're not giving you a third time. It'll be

1:13:14

in the American morning. It's gonna be when you would play

1:13:16

TI in person. Think about how your group does it. We're

1:13:18

not gonna start at 11 p.m. It'll

1:13:20

be like 10 a.m. central standard time. It's

1:13:23

gonna happen somewhere around there and

1:13:26

well, you can handle the

1:13:29

part that is more in your area but

1:13:32

we're bringing audience agendas back. Yeah,

1:13:34

maybe. So if you are

1:13:36

a, I'm gonna say galactic counselor. If

1:13:38

you are at basically at any Patreon

1:13:40

level, so galactic counselor or above and

1:13:43

we'll do it in the galactic counselor channel. Submit

1:13:47

a pitch or an agenda, a

1:13:49

homebrew agenda that you've made up. They

1:13:51

can be stupid. They can kind of

1:13:54

bend the whole idea of Twilight Imperium.

1:13:57

Let your wild ideas fly. Absolutely.

1:14:00

Because we are instead of doing regular agendas.

1:14:02

We will just be doing your audience submitted

1:14:04

agendas now We used to do audience agendas

1:14:07

way back in the day. We did them

1:14:09

different. This is gonna be simpler This is

1:14:11

just a homebrew holiday spectacular

1:14:13

right a set of agendas

1:14:16

do not Give us

1:14:19

your good smart Twilight Imperium ideas. Those will

1:14:21

be rejected out. Yeah, I'm not throwing in

1:14:23

the trash I don't care. I don't need

1:14:25

to see good ideas I just want the

1:14:27

ones the classic old examples are where it's

1:14:29

like Honestly, some of the best examples became

1:14:31

prophecy of Kings content like swapping two tiles

1:14:33

on the map and stuff like that I

1:14:35

just became ghosts hero, but I

1:14:37

would love for you to think even beyond those bounds

1:14:40

Let let really stupid things happen and we

1:14:42

will we will allow it because we've got

1:14:45

hopefully six idiots playing Twilight Imperium

1:14:49

I'm gonna do terrible things to them. I don't

1:14:51

necessarily plan to play that day I hope to

1:14:53

be more of a producer role and kind

1:14:56

of host the action one of my

1:14:58

host duties Will to be your your

1:15:00

Shawn Evans for the day I intend

1:15:02

for all of our players for every

1:15:05

point they earn in the game They

1:15:08

will have to eat progressively spicier and spicier wings

1:15:10

now at least for them This will be spread

1:15:12

out over the entire day rather than like eating

1:15:14

ten wings in the span of two hours You

1:15:17

know, it might be six hours. They'll probably be

1:15:19

fine If anything, it kind of makes that eight

1:15:21

nine and tenth one a lot worse maybe because

1:15:23

it's like, I don't know my tongue is Recuperated

1:15:27

and now I have to do it again, but I will

1:15:29

make them do that So the winning player will eat the

1:15:31

spiciest hot sauce I can put in their mouth But don't

1:15:33

worry as they're Shawn Evans, I will be following along the

1:15:35

way. This is not something I just force upon my friends

1:15:37

I will also be doing it with them. We

1:15:40

will cheers and we will hurt ourselves with spicy

1:15:44

So I have two questions first

1:15:46

of all You're gonna do

1:15:48

a cauliflower as well. Of course. Yeah. Yeah,

1:15:51

and a second of all, do you have the

1:15:53

bomb? So I don't have to

1:15:56

bomb anymore. I had the bomb and I threw it away

1:15:58

at one point. I might get it again I

1:16:00

might get it again, but I do have a

1:16:02

fridge full of some hot sauces that I could

1:16:04

utilize and I just need to scope them out

1:16:07

and see where my scales are and see if

1:16:09

I need to fill any gaps and then probably

1:16:11

I need to go ahead and grab my sauce

1:16:13

with the balm. I don't know. That

1:16:15

might just need to happen. It tastes like battery acid.

1:16:17

Sucks isn't a good time. It's a bad thing. It's

1:16:20

really bad and the thing is, it was like

1:16:23

when we did it, so we one year just

1:16:25

went through all of those hot

1:16:27

sauces that they use on that show. Well,

1:16:29

I'm not changing those, but we did a

1:16:31

similar thing. But the thing

1:16:34

about the balm is that if

1:16:36

we had not eaten the balm,

1:16:38

everything would have been fine.

1:16:41

Yeah. Like it would have, I mean sure,

1:16:43

like there's a lot of heat in there, but

1:16:45

once you learn that really the key

1:16:48

ingredient of the entire show is that

1:16:50

they just have one hot sauce that

1:16:53

is not made for human consumption. It's

1:16:56

disgusting and it's icy,

1:16:59

yeah, but that's not even like, it's

1:17:01

sort of like if you drink like

1:17:04

snake venom or something like that. It

1:17:06

just feels like you're not supposed to consume

1:17:08

it and then now when I watch that

1:17:10

show Hot Ones,

1:17:13

I will, I

1:17:15

realize that like, oh basically they're

1:17:17

having a great time and then they eat the balm

1:17:19

and then now they're not feeling good. And all the

1:17:21

wings after it are worse just because the balm is

1:17:24

still on your tongue. Like

1:17:26

that's all it is. If you take that

1:17:28

one out of the equation, actually it's just

1:17:30

kind of a nice fun thing of eating

1:17:32

spicy wings. Absolutely. Yeah, so I mean, I

1:17:35

mean if anything, like it doesn't have the Scovilles, by the

1:17:37

way, Scoville count is kind of fake past a certain point.

1:17:39

It's not what it is, but it's not what it is.

1:17:41

You'll see the debate going forever. IBU is the same deal.

1:17:43

But the balm should be just the last one. It really

1:17:45

should be. It should be the last one. Yeah, because

1:17:47

you can't appreciate any flavor after the balm

1:17:50

because it just ruins your palette. Well,

1:17:53

everyone else too, don't worry. I understand

1:17:55

one flaw in this system is that if

1:17:57

players are afraid of scoring points, they'll just

1:17:59

not. do that. I have a

1:18:01

fallback plan for that. I have

1:18:04

methods of making them score. It's gonna

1:18:06

be a fun stream because it's gonna

1:18:08

be, I mean, we haven't had a

1:18:10

stream in a while where we

1:18:12

have invited you to sort

1:18:14

of root against us and kind

1:18:16

of be, indulge in your,

1:18:18

you know, the evil side of your psyche and

1:18:21

we are asking you to do that. You know

1:18:23

what I think the key is this time? What

1:18:25

has happened in the past is we were always

1:18:27

playing and when we used to

1:18:29

be mean about this, when we when we let

1:18:31

the audience do bad things to us, it was

1:18:33

us versus the audience and that vibe can only

1:18:36

go so far and at a

1:18:38

certain point it does lead to just the people

1:18:40

on camera being like actually just having a bad

1:18:42

time past a certain point basically but

1:18:44

that's not what we're doing this year.

1:18:47

Now it's the players versus me and

1:18:49

that's the key difference is I am

1:18:51

a villain in the room with them.

1:18:54

The call is coming from inside the

1:18:56

house. I just realized

1:18:58

with your with your spicy wing rule when people

1:19:00

swap supports they have to both immediately eat things.

1:19:02

It makes it makes support so it's not even

1:19:05

too because one person might be at six and

1:19:07

one person's at three and it's like we do

1:19:09

this swap. I have to have

1:19:11

the bump. You just get to have something nice

1:19:13

and tasty. I have to do this other thing.

1:19:17

You'll all get your supports done ASAP will be

1:19:19

the thing. It'll be, it'll be, that here's what

1:19:21

I wish for is for all six of you

1:19:23

to like let's all do support swaps right now

1:19:25

out the gate first thing no points have been

1:19:27

scored and we all eat a wing

1:19:30

together. Aww, that sounds

1:19:32

really nice. Let's do it that way maybe. I like that.

1:19:34

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. December 23rd we also I

1:19:36

would say this weekend I am

1:19:41

intending to do a yinsterhood game on

1:19:43

Saturday so come come hang

1:19:46

out while I play probably SAR on Saturday and

1:19:48

then Hunter what do you have going on

1:19:50

after the holidays. One thing I wanted to

1:19:52

add to before before we get to this

1:19:54

next thing is this this

1:19:57

week my LazX homebrew game

1:19:59

will be going going up on the YouTube. It's

1:20:01

a really good, as far as the Homebrew

1:20:04

Guild is concerned, we're basically adjourned, I would

1:20:06

say, for the year. In

1:20:08

January, I went to do a second draft of

1:20:11

the LazX Homebrew faction, I actually really enjoyed it.

1:20:14

So anything that y'all want in there

1:20:17

that isn't already in there, there were a couple

1:20:19

components that I've isolated as like, here are the

1:20:21

things that I wanna work on, I wanna work

1:20:23

on the mech. I feel like the commander is

1:20:26

weak. Overall,

1:20:28

I'm pretty pleased with the general idea

1:20:30

of it. And there were even

1:20:32

some fixes that we came up with in

1:20:34

the moment Wecker was able to fix the

1:20:36

promissory note, which is very, very good. We

1:20:39

had a new idea for a faction

1:20:42

ability that would clean

1:20:44

up the wording of their faction tech. A

1:20:47

lot of interesting developments, but

1:20:49

I want to do a second pass

1:20:51

on it, and then finalize it. A

1:20:54

big thing, and this is, I don't know if

1:20:56

this is the best place to put this, but

1:20:58

I just wanna throw it out there to the

1:21:01

Homebrewers Guild. If any of

1:21:03

you want to, I'm gonna call it

1:21:05

art direct, the LazX

1:21:07

faction, if you are skilled at making

1:21:10

things look

1:21:12

really pretty, and you want to

1:21:14

do some custom LazX art, and

1:21:17

get credit for it, okay, reach

1:21:19

out to me. And post about

1:21:22

it on the Homebrewers Guild, because I

1:21:24

am not, I am

1:21:27

very, I'm functional, I'm pragmatic when

1:21:29

it comes to Photoshop, but

1:21:31

what I would like is to get

1:21:33

some distinct art that can

1:21:35

kind of be in whatever style you want, and

1:21:39

say this is the final draft

1:21:41

of this faction, and

1:21:44

get you credited, we can even just put

1:21:46

credit on the back of the faction

1:21:48

sheet where the lore would go. That was another thing too.

1:21:51

I am not, I do not want to

1:21:53

write lore, or the LazX faction,

1:21:55

so if you got any pitches for the lore,

1:21:57

for the back of the faction sheet, Get

1:22:00

that into me, I will look through it.

1:22:02

I consider myself kind of editor in chief

1:22:04

of the Homebrewers Guild, but give me your

1:22:06

submissions. I will get it in there and

1:22:09

I will make sure that you get credit.

1:22:11

This is a community project that we're doing.

1:22:15

And yeah, I want to get the, my

1:22:17

first priority with Homebrewers Guild is in January is

1:22:20

to finish up this LazX faction. And I think

1:22:22

we're really close, which is kind of crazy for

1:22:24

we did one play tab. But

1:22:27

I think a lot of the ideas clicked into

1:22:29

place pretty quickly. And then

1:22:32

after that, it'll just be Twilight

1:22:34

Imperium Zero edition, Focus for the

1:22:36

rest of the year next year. Cool.

1:22:38

What else are you doing end of this

1:22:41

year? So on, I'm going to

1:22:43

say December 30th, which is what I

1:22:45

call New Year's Eve Eve, I am

1:22:47

going to do something

1:22:49

weird all day. Last

1:22:52

year, I, this was more for

1:22:54

OGA, unless a Space Cast thing,

1:22:56

I played a little bit of

1:22:58

every single Sega Dreamcast game. And

1:23:01

I was going to try and do it all in one

1:23:03

sitting. I think I got through the H's. And

1:23:05

then I stopped because I'd been streaming for like,

1:23:08

I don't know, almost like 20 hours or

1:23:11

something like that. I want to do something

1:23:13

in that vein this year. I don't know what it's going

1:23:15

to be yet. But that would

1:23:17

be on December 30th, kind of all day

1:23:19

style, like the holiday spectacular. I also reserve

1:23:21

the right to back out because my buddy

1:23:23

Will is going to be visiting me around

1:23:25

that time. And he might be, he

1:23:28

might be there that day. I don't know. Then fine.

1:23:30

Just to have a life. Maybe you can have

1:23:32

a life on around the holidays. We might approve

1:23:35

it. We might approve it. Try not to have

1:23:37

a life. You are allowed to submit a request

1:23:39

to me and I will see if

1:23:41

I can approve of your off time.

1:23:43

But I, no guarantees. It's a lot. It's

1:23:46

a busy season. Okay. It's

1:23:48

a busy season. Yeah. It's a

1:23:50

busy season. We have a hootenanny on our

1:23:52

hands. Oh man, that's true. It's next week,

1:23:54

the hootenanny. Oh dear everybody. We have to

1:23:56

do it again. It's time for

1:23:59

us to correct it. Everyone on what you

1:24:01

all think about the factions and to set

1:24:03

a new standard. I'm excited for that. Oh

1:24:05

my dear goodness Yeah, keep keep submitting your

1:24:07

yeah, everybody's been submitting polls for What

1:24:11

they think are the tiers and I will be

1:24:13

huh using that quote-unquote For

1:24:17

quote-unquote research. Yeah, sure but

1:24:20

please go ahead and get your takes in there and let

1:24:22

us know what you think about the factions and Hunter

1:24:24

and I are still sternly committed to not

1:24:26

reading the pre errata channel We will not

1:24:28

listen to anything you all have to say

1:24:31

about all of the factions and

1:24:33

next week That'll be that'll be your episode But

1:24:35

I thought the bit was we say that we're

1:24:37

reading it but in such a way to where

1:24:39

you can tell that we're not Oh, yeah, we're

1:24:41

definitely reading it. No, we're definitely in there We're

1:24:44

like a lot of important rather in all we

1:24:46

are every single thought y'all are having we were

1:24:48

really taking them in You're really learning a lot

1:24:50

this year. We're gonna get it right you yeah,

1:24:52

we're learning a lot We're gonna do it the

1:24:54

right way and this is gonna be like a

1:24:56

scientifically done Faction hooten

1:24:58

Annie What I would encourage you

1:25:00

to do is to sit down take stock of your whole

1:25:03

life and then enter the

1:25:05

pre errata channel and type Out your

1:25:07

manifesto. I'm talking pages. I'm talking paragraph

1:25:09

Yeah, and we are going to take

1:25:12

all of that in and grow our

1:25:14

craniums are going to expand Because

1:25:17

you are so smart bud. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You

1:25:19

guys are so smart I always

1:25:21

get smart Thank you for all of your smartness

1:25:23

that you just like bestow upon us and you

1:25:25

give us you give us this gift Of genius

1:25:28

every week, and you know it just matters. What's me?

1:25:30

I don't this joke is almost getting to to Mean

1:25:33

at this point now. I don't know Thank

1:25:43

you for listening to space cats peace hurdles

1:25:45

and thanks to Ben Prunty for the use

1:25:48

of his music You can find more at

1:25:50

Ben Prunty music calm and Ben Prunty dot

1:25:52

band camp calm Pops

1:25:58

Magnifica Bellum L'Ori-Ou- Died