0:00

Hi there, thank you for joining us yet

0:02

again on another episode of Space Nuts. My

0:04

name is Andrew Dunphy, your host, and good

0:07

to have your company. I've got

0:09

a couple of things to talk about on today's

0:11

show. Not all good

0:13

news, I'm afraid. One in relation

0:15

to Saturn's moon Titan. They've released

0:18

some new information about

0:20

the potential for life on

0:22

Titan, and that doesn't auger

0:24

well, unfortunately. They've been crunching

0:26

the numbers and looking at

0:29

the elephants, and they've basically

0:31

come up with an elephant in a room that

0:33

they don't like to look off. That

0:36

all makes sense, promise you that. And

0:39

we are also going to the United

0:41

Nations because there's been an agreement to

0:44

talk about something that needs to be talked about

0:46

so that they can talk about it again, and

0:48

then maybe make a decision about talking about whatever

0:50

they're going to talk about at the first meeting

0:52

that they're going to talk about. That'll

0:55

make sense as well. That's

0:58

all coming up on this episode of Space

1:01

Nuts. 15 seconds, guidance is internal. 10,

1:07

9, ignition sequence start. Space Nuts. 5, 4, 3,

1:09

2, 1. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,

1:11

3, 2, 1. Space Nuts. Astronauts report it feels

1:14

good. And

1:18

joining me to unravel quite literally all

1:21

of that is Professor Fred Watson, astronomer

1:23

at large. Fred. Hello,

1:26

Andrew. How are you doing? I'm confused.

1:28

Well, join the club. Yes.

1:33

No, I'm all right. I'm all right.

1:35

Are you okay? Yeah, I'm much

1:38

better than I have been. Thank you. Now that

1:40

the antibiotics have got rid of the, it's

1:43

technically called rickettsia, but it's

1:45

usually also known as spotted

1:47

fever. That describes it perfectly.

1:49

And it was caused by a tick bite.

1:51

Yeah. So, yeah. It's

1:54

been a long haul, really, hasn't it? It

1:56

has, yeah. It's been about three weeks. I'm

1:58

seeing it. Nasty,

2:01

nasty. Let

2:03

us get stuck into the

2:05

news of this episode and

2:07

our first story concerns

2:10

Titan. Now Titan held a lot

2:12

of promise in terms of potential

2:15

life because we

2:17

know that it's got all those

2:20

elements for creating life plus probably

2:23

a subterranean ocean

2:27

or a sub ice ocean

2:29

that could mean that

2:32

the mix is right to create potentially

2:34

life and of course there's a big mission

2:37

going there in the not

2:39

too distant future and the

2:43

people who published this study were actually a

2:45

little bit worried that what they discovered might

2:47

put a torpedo in the mission but

2:50

it's probably going to do the opposite for

2:52

other reasons but let's sort of just get

2:55

down to Tintax. Titan

2:58

probably looked like one of

3:00

the best prospects for life

3:02

beyond Earth and now they're

3:04

starting to suggest that's probably

3:06

not true. What's happened? Yes,

3:09

so and I think this kind

3:13

of slightly depressing bit of this is that

3:16

it may well be that what has

3:19

been evaluated for Titan will apply to

3:21

the other ice moons like Europa and

3:23

Enceladus and now Mimas which we talked

3:25

about a couple of weeks ago. Yes.

3:28

All have sub ice oceans so

3:32

this is a study by

3:34

an astrologist Catherine Niesch and

3:37

what she's shown is

3:40

that the sub ice

3:42

ocean on Titan, so remember the model

3:45

of Titan it's a rocky world, it's

3:47

a big world, it's bigger than Mercury

3:50

which has an ocean overlaying the rock

3:53

and ice on the surface of that

3:55

and on the surface of the ice

3:57

there are other liquids which are liquid.

4:00

hydrocarbons. That's

4:02

another story which we might touch on in

4:05

a minute as well. But what Catherine has

4:08

done is looked

4:10

at how material

4:12

from the surface of Titan,

4:14

which is known to be

4:16

rich in hydrocarbons, how

4:19

that might filter down to

4:22

the subsurface ocean. And

4:25

basically the outcome is that

4:27

it is very very slow

4:29

indeed and you know not

4:31

something that might make for

4:34

a prebiotic

4:39

mix in the oceans of

4:41

Titan, the sub ice ocean. I'm

4:43

putting that succinctly. But basically the

4:45

story is this, excuse

4:48

me, and I

4:50

should say this study is published in the journal

4:52

Astrobiology. It's all about how

4:55

you know this transfer from the surface

4:58

which is going to be organic rich down to the

5:01

ocean. And so what

5:03

the mowling

5:06

looks at is the fact

5:08

that comets which

5:11

will have impacted Titan like they have

5:13

done the Earth and probably

5:15

more so in the early history of

5:17

Titan, comet hits

5:19

the surface, the

5:22

heat of impact melts the surface.

5:25

So you've got a pool of

5:27

liquid water for a little while

5:29

that's got the surface organics mixed

5:32

with it and what she has

5:34

done then is said

5:36

okay first of

5:38

all how many comets are going to

5:40

strike Titan every year and that

5:44

gives you an idea of the flow

5:46

of water rate carrying these organics from

5:48

the surface to the interior but

5:51

then to work out just

5:53

how they will get down

5:56

through the ice. I mean for there are all

5:58

kinds of unknowns in this I have to say. because

6:01

we don't actually know how thick that ice

6:03

layer is and we don't

6:05

know what the kind of consistency and what's underneath

6:08

it is. It may be a sort of slush

6:11

because we're talking about very low temperatures. But

6:13

that ocean is known to exist because

6:15

of this phenomenon of if you stand

6:17

on tight and your longitude changes and

6:19

that's because the surface is moving with

6:21

respect to the interior

6:23

core. Anyway, what

6:26

they discovered was that

6:29

every year, I think

6:33

it's every year, let

6:35

me just make sure I'm saying the right thing

6:37

here. Yeah, so this is

6:39

every year. Every year you

6:41

would get roughly seven

6:44

and a half tons of

6:46

glycine, which is the simplest of the

6:48

amino acids and is one of the

6:50

constituents of proteins in living organisms. And

6:55

I'll leave you to draw the line with the elephant

6:57

there, but the 7.5 tons of glycine are

7:00

going to filter down to the

7:02

ocean. Now, the ocean

7:06

is, we think, at

7:08

least 12 times the volume of the

7:11

Earth's ocean. So seven

7:13

and a half tons per year into

7:15

that isn't going to cut

7:18

the mustard when it comes to

7:20

forming life. Which is the equivalent

7:22

to the mass of an African

7:24

male elephant. That's where we're drawing

7:26

the analogy. Elephant in the

7:29

room. Yes, that's right. So one elephant's

7:31

worth of glycine per year going into

7:33

an ocean 12 times the volume of

7:35

Earth's oceans. You can see the difficulty

7:38

there. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be

7:40

very, very dilute indeed. Now,

7:45

that's for a

7:48

world that is rich in

7:50

surface organic, surface chemicals containing

7:52

carbon. Whereas the other icy

7:54

worlds that were just mentioned,

7:56

Europa, Ganymede, Enceladus, They

7:59

Virtually.. No carbon compounds on

8:01

the surface. And so you know

8:03

if if Titans subsurface moon is

8:06

not going to be habitable because

8:08

of this very poor flow of

8:10

good stuff down from the surface,

8:12

that it's going to be worse

8:14

for the other. A You know,

8:17

the other ocean wells, the other

8:19

ice moons off the solar system.

8:22

So. I'd say

8:25

I have destiny set. Summarized it

8:27

very nicely. It's this work shows

8:29

that it is very hard to

8:32

transfer the carbon on Titan surface

8:34

to it subsurface ocean. Basically, it's

8:36

hard to have both the water

8:39

and the carbon needed for life

8:41

in the same place. And so

8:44

that's a as you said, there

8:46

is still much to learn about

8:48

about And Titans The Dragon fly

8:51

missions which will launch a double

8:53

quad. Copter Lander on

8:55

Titan. Twenty Twenty A is not that

8:57

far down the track. I've seen the

9:00

take a few years to get their

9:02

boats are not be exciting when it

9:04

happens to. was still excited about Tyson.

9:06

Ah but ah This kind of is

9:09

a bit of a downer when it

9:11

comes to the some some ocean a

9:13

sump sorry suffice ocean Well and of

9:16

the question for me is. How

9:18

do they know they most likely to

9:21

be right? Because they've had to make

9:23

assumptions, say on several levels in really

9:25

soon as Piper that had to assume

9:27

a certain number of comments, a certain

9:29

amount of the theory of Cat and

9:32

and how do we know that the

9:34

interior of the planet didn't already contain

9:36

all that. Ah,

9:39

exactly that.is a very

9:41

good questions and because

9:43

like all science your

9:46

working on assumptions and

9:48

you know you're you're

9:50

making these assumptions about

9:53

us Watts Ah what

9:55

this constitutes Arts witnesses

9:57

some says always been.

10:00

The best understanding that we have but

10:02

may not be the right answer. And

10:04

that's the beauty of science you know.

10:06

silly might turn up next week this

10:09

is or whether me that we've got

10:11

the com flown from. oh wait a

10:13

minute from we've done the math rock,

10:16

Santa and As.usually the masses been done

10:18

wrong. It's usually it's not one of

10:20

the assumptions might change because of new

10:23

discoveries us who are. So it's It's

10:25

like the old, this particular Astrobiology if

10:27

pulling together strands for many, many different

10:29

fields. Of science and and you're

10:31

making a conclusion on the basis

10:33

of them now you didn't have

10:36

a it. It may assume a

10:38

did mention liquid hydrocarbons some surface.

10:40

So it's a story not what

10:42

my know I know that exists

10:44

but die how Is it relevant

10:46

to this story? Well, my

10:48

take on this is less as a

10:50

mistake because I'm one of the things

10:52

that has excited astrobiologists in the past.

10:54

Certainly in the early days of the

10:57

Cassini Huygens Mission when we landed a

10:59

spacecraft on the surface of Tighten. The.

11:03

The. The fact that so so

11:05

the argument that sir niece and

11:08

her colleagues are making a a

11:10

very much on standard biology as

11:13

we know it's water based life

11:15

with Calvin as a So I

11:17

carbon based life with waters the

11:20

working fluid ah the and that's

11:22

certainly true of all lies that

11:25

we know we do have nothing

11:27

that works differently but that been

11:29

speculation that he could have a

11:32

different basis of lies. ah

11:34

and there was certainly ideas

11:36

put forward the bucket nearly

11:39

two thousand was which suggested

11:41

that maybe they were there

11:43

were organisms again carbon based

11:45

organisms but ones that use

11:48

liquid natural gas is they're

11:50

working fluid the a sane

11:52

and me saying which minds

11:54

breeze hydrogen and heat acetylene

11:56

which is another another carbon

11:59

containing come pound. And

12:01

there was a bit of a little bit

12:03

of a flush of excitement about

12:05

that when Cassini discovered

12:09

that both acetylene and

12:12

hydrogen are both depleted near the surface of

12:14

these hydrocarbon

12:18

lakes. Now, that observation might have gone

12:20

away. It's not something I've heard about

12:22

for a long time. But it does

12:24

mean that we shouldn't limit

12:26

ourselves to looking at life as we

12:29

know it, Jim, because that's

12:31

carbon-based life on a water working fluid.

12:33

There might be

12:39

other possibilities. And Titan might be a

12:41

place where there exists... Yeah, OK. So

12:44

we can't absolutely write it off. But

12:46

the evidence based on certain mathematical

12:49

assumptions does

12:52

sort of tip a bit of

12:54

water on the Titan

12:57

theory. Cold water,

12:59

too. Definitely cold water. I think I've

13:01

got a solution, though. Let's go to

13:03

Titan and build a room. I reckon

13:06

if we go inside that

13:09

room, we will find an elephant. On

13:13

its way down through the ice. Maybe. It's

13:17

got to be a bit of

13:19

a disappointment for people, even though

13:22

they're saying, oh, no, no, this

13:24

new horizon, the Dragonfly, sorry, mission,

13:27

we'll go ahead. We're still excited. There's so many

13:29

more questions to answer. Well, that's right. But it's

13:31

got to be a bit of a gut punch

13:33

to hear this. Yeah,

13:37

yes. It's science. Yeah,

13:39

it's science. We roll with the

13:41

falls. But,

13:47

you know, and once again, Titan is

13:49

of vast interest, not just because of

13:52

the possibility of there being life there. It's

13:54

a huge interest. It's unique.

13:56

It's the only world in the entire universe

13:58

that we know. other than the

14:01

Earth where there are liquid pools of

14:03

liquid and its hydrocarbons are on water,

14:06

which are in equilibrium with the atmosphere. So you've

14:08

got this weather cycle there, you get

14:11

carbon methane and ethane rain.

14:14

There will be, Andrew, get

14:17

this, there will be methane and

14:19

ethane rainbows on Titan, which will

14:21

have a different radius from rainbows

14:23

on Earth because it's water that causes our

14:26

water droplets that cause our rainbows, it'll

14:29

be water, sorry, methane, ethane droplets that

14:31

cause theirs and they've got different refractive indices.

14:33

Stuff like that is going to be fabulous

14:35

for dragonfly. Yeah. Well, how long is that

14:37

going to take to get there though? Yeah,

14:40

that's the problem a long time. Yeah. So

14:43

even though the launch is what, 2028,

14:46

by the time it gets there

14:49

and gets down to business, it'll be much,

14:52

much later. Yeah. I'm not

14:54

sure what the orbital trajectory is. There'll be

14:56

slingshots involved, I'm sure, but I don't know

14:58

what the details are. Anyway,

15:02

yeah, something still to look forward to and

15:05

it's not, you know, it's an

15:07

interesting comment. I see

15:09

it as a comment on

15:12

our journey towards seeking

15:14

life elsewhere in the universe. Indeed.

15:17

Right. If you'd like to read

15:19

that story in full, you can

15:21

find it on the SciTechDaily website.

15:23

This is Space Nuts Andrew Duncly

15:25

here with Professor Fred Watson. Let's

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take a short break from the show

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19:23

back to the show. The

19:28

second half of our program,

19:30

Fred, is dedicated to bureaucracy.

19:34

Not entirely. I'm probably being a bit too tough,

19:36

but it's finally come to pass that the United

19:38

Nations has

19:41

put on an agenda for a meeting later this year

19:43

that they will be looking into the issue of

19:47

concentrations of satellites or satellite constellations or

19:49

whatever you want to call them. Because

19:53

as we speak, there are over a hundred satellites in

19:55

the world. eight

20:00

thousand satellites in orbit around Earth and

20:02

there are plans to send up many,

20:04

many, many more. Even Rwanda wants to

20:07

get in on this. They announced

20:09

a few years ago now that they would put

20:11

300,000 satellites in orbit. SpaceX wants to put 60,000

20:14

up there and there are so many others

20:20

that want to add to that number

20:23

and it's starting, well it's beyond becoming

20:25

a concern for those who

20:27

use telescope,

20:29

visual telescopes and radio telescopes

20:31

because you want to

20:34

keep the skies dark and quiet and having

20:36

hundreds of thousands of satellites orbiting

20:39

the planet or instant geostationary orbit

20:41

probably would make that difficult. It's

20:45

a challenge. So this story goes

20:47

back really to 2029. Sorry,

20:49

doesn't go back to 2029. See

20:53

I'm still not quite well enough. I felt

20:56

very old there for a moment. Yes, past

20:58

that. It goes back to 2019, in fact May 2019, when

21:03

the first tranche of Starlink

21:05

satellites were launched and astronomers were

21:07

taken by surprise and when

21:09

they realized that SpaceX

21:11

had approval for another 12,000 of them,

21:13

they started to get upset.

21:18

So that's the backstory. Now this is

21:20

a story that I've been very closely

21:22

involved with Andrew because he's part of

21:24

my job to help

21:26

to counter this issue and since that

21:28

time there's been

21:32

a lot has happened,

21:34

astronomers grumbled like man to start

21:37

with but they have since

21:39

then had many many conferences, done

21:41

a lot of work on actually

21:44

evaluating the risk to astronomical observation and

21:47

you're quite right it's both optical

21:50

telescopes and radio telescopes which

21:52

were affected by this. So

21:57

all of that has led A

22:00

couple of years ago to the formation by

22:03

the International Astronomical Union, which is the sort

22:05

of governing body of astronomy, something

22:08

that is called the Centre for the

22:11

Protection of the Dark and Quiet Sky

22:13

from the Effect of Satellite Constellations, usually

22:16

abbreviated to the CPS. It's

22:18

a lot easier to say.

22:20

Yes, of course. In

22:22

fact, it's a lot of colleagues and

22:24

friends of mine who are involved with that. So

22:27

that's one

22:30

level. And that organisation, the

22:32

CPS, one of its, it

22:34

does many things. It works out

22:37

how you can remediate observations that have

22:39

been affected by satellite transmissions, whether

22:41

they're radio or satellite reflections in

22:44

the case of optical

22:46

telescopes. They've done a

22:48

huge amount of work on that. There is

22:50

also a strong

22:52

part of the organisation which

22:54

is about the aging with

22:56

the space industry, which in

23:00

the bottom line is one of the most

23:02

important ones because the space industry is

23:04

the key to this. And in

23:07

particular, the biggest, basically

23:10

the person or the organisation with

23:12

the most investment

23:15

in this so far is SpaceX

23:17

with Starlink. And

23:20

I'm very glad to say that

23:22

SpaceX has been one of the

23:24

foremost, if not the foremost company

23:26

to engage with astronomers and look

23:28

at the problems and how you

23:30

fix them. And indeed,

23:33

there are some really good people

23:35

working within the Starlink organisation who

23:37

are actually also members of the CPS,

23:40

the IAU Centre. So there's a

23:42

lot of, there's a good news

23:44

aspect to this story. The less

23:47

good news aspect was something

23:50

I was closely involved with this time

23:52

last year. I just,

23:54

in fact, I was just returning from

23:58

a couple of weeks in Vienna. where

24:01

the Science and

24:03

Technical Subcommittee of

24:06

the United Nations Committee

24:08

on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space

24:10

had just finished its annual two week

24:12

meeting. And during that meeting

24:14

we were very kind

24:18

of urgently trying to get this

24:20

issue of the

24:22

deleterious effects of satellite constellations

24:24

on astronomy onto

24:26

the agenda, the permanent agenda of COPWOS,

24:29

the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of

24:31

Outer Space. That

24:33

proved difficult because everything

24:38

in the UN works by consensus,

24:40

it's not a vote, everybody has

24:42

to agree and there were certain

24:44

nations which would not agree to

24:47

this agenda item. Was

24:51

the United States one of them? The

24:54

United States was not one of them, no,

24:56

it was other countries who

24:59

were constantly in the news because

25:02

of wars and things of that sort. So

25:05

it was all about, you

25:08

know, it was all about trying

25:11

to push this through. We were very disappointed at

25:13

the end of that couple of weeks that

25:16

we didn't make it through with the agenda

25:18

item. There was a full meeting of the

25:20

Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space

25:22

rather than their Scientific and Technical Subcommittee which

25:25

is what I was involved

25:27

with. That full committee met

25:29

in June and the hope was that they

25:31

would push it forward there too. That

25:34

didn't happen either because of another

25:36

country that objected and

25:39

in fact that's where it stood. And you might

25:41

remember that in October I was at a meeting

25:43

in La Palma in the Canary Islands which was

25:46

actually an International Astronomical Union meeting where we

25:48

discussed this again and there were glimmers of

25:51

hope there that we could see a way

25:53

forward to take

25:56

This issue onto the agenda

25:58

of the UN. And

26:00

okay so in the meeting this

26:02

just gone which I wasn't arts

26:04

and in fact it was in

26:07

personally meeting so it couldn't even

26:09

that login online. But my colleagues

26:11

from the Smiles Twenty Space Agency

26:13

with that's fantastic people who are

26:15

right across this issue and in

26:17

the end it was agreed. So

26:19

the results A very nice International

26:22

Astronomical Union press release which is

26:24

headed as you said, United Nations

26:26

agreed to address the impact of

26:28

satellite constellations on astronomy. And

26:30

so the agenda items

26:33

which will. Come up

26:35

now for the next five years

26:37

and that is pretty amazing for

26:39

you and issues. Has the title

26:41

dark and Quiet Skies Astronomy and

26:43

large Constellations addressing emerging issues and

26:45

challenges and I hope that I

26:47

might be involved with that were

26:49

down the track and will show

26:52

with us going to happen, but

26:54

it certainly very close to my

26:56

heart to be able to do

26:58

that so that's a step forward

27:00

Now as you have kind of

27:02

indicated at the start of this.

27:04

Segment. Of

27:06

the wheels of the You

27:09

and turned very slowly indeed.

27:11

And this is an issue

27:13

on which essentially nimbleness is

27:15

really the watchword began. You

27:17

know, the industry's moving ahead

27:19

so quickly. But

27:21

I do believe that what the

27:23

the you and agreement now will

27:26

do is it just adds that

27:28

little bit more gravitas to what

27:30

we're already doing a in the

27:32

and based on the world. Engaging

27:35

with a space industry, it's looking

27:37

at how how things can be

27:39

improved and how we can. health.

27:43

Effects of these Mexicans license Because

27:45

the bottom line is the make

27:47

constellations are actually doing good things.

27:49

You know there are providing internet

27:51

services where they would never been there

27:53

before and with centers on posts

27:55

with the wars that are going

27:57

on at the moment. How those

27:59

services. The invaluable am.

28:02

Very. The industry itself i

28:04

should just start is a postscript

28:06

to this is concerned about the

28:09

crowding a space because you know

28:11

this Kessler syndrome homes to all

28:13

one big car collision and you've

28:16

suddenly gotten so much down in

28:18

space becomes unusable Exactly Yeah, I'm

28:20

I have a Devil's Advocate question

28:23

a cabbie you and now agreed

28:25

to put this on the agenda

28:27

and discuss it and. Look

28:30

at the problem. Over

28:32

the next five years how much power as

28:34

they got to actually deal with it when

28:36

the time comes while the time has come.

28:38

But how much power like up. So.

28:42

That they do have power in the sense

28:44

that. It

28:47

may well be that another

28:49

body that sort of sits

28:51

under the you end up

28:53

which is International Telecommunications Union

28:55

and thus somebody that actually

28:57

allocates frequencies and basically says

29:00

yes, he can launch his

29:02

spacecraft and that is. There

29:05

is sinking which I think is shared

29:07

across the board that that. You

29:10

know them, their mandate needs to be

29:13

tightened up that the I to you

29:15

need some revisions in the way deals

29:17

with the with requests for or be

29:19

moon is an orbital slots. And

29:22

and that can be done that?

29:24

That's something that will probably be

29:27

encouraged by. It's the fact that

29:29

the says this an agenda item

29:31

is gonna head means nothing. If

29:34

I may just segue from the

29:36

andrew to another story, that kind

29:38

of. Highlights of really

29:40

what we took him out.

29:42

and that is the announcement

29:44

again from Spacex that they

29:47

are going to D orbits

29:49

a hundred of it's older

29:51

Starlink satellites in order to

29:53

so the clear the air

29:55

a bit it it's tubes

29:57

to to basically it's. Get

30:01

rid of over a threat for

30:03

collisions because I think these are

30:05

the older. I think this is

30:07

among the first group of the

30:09

stalling satellite they want to call

30:11

Diversion One satellite. Yes, And so

30:13

for the next few weeks ago,

30:16

the Duvet hundred of them. Now,

30:18

exactly as you said, Starlink already

30:20

has more than five thousand diseases

30:22

in orbit, but that the later

30:24

versions are actually I think more

30:26

sophisticated in their collision avoidance capabilities

30:28

and things of that. Sort of

30:31

so that you know a Spacex

30:33

announced in a in a in

30:35

the next a tweet mix Mcclain

30:37

metaphors that's A that did This

30:39

is the right thing to do

30:41

to keep sets by safe unsustainable,

30:43

which is really what it's all

30:45

about and or have say and

30:47

of said this already. But as

30:49

your Spacex as they're stalling, translations

30:51

are certainly the biggest offenders in

30:53

terms of numbers, but they are

30:55

also the ones that have come

30:58

closest to the party by. It's

31:00

things. Like the visor Sat switch

31:02

were aiming to stuck in the

31:04

satellites we now have reflective coating.

31:06

Some the satellites that can deflect

31:08

beats the being so served from.

31:11

Of light from the some rather than

31:13

those being spanked scattered down to earth

31:15

where the become visible in twilight that

31:17

you been them straight out into space

31:19

where and make the satellites invisible it

31:21

reduces and brightness and are also. Engaging

31:24

in some quite stringent mitigation properties in

31:27

regard to radio astronomy as well as

31:29

so in that regard. This that you

31:31

know is it is a good news

31:33

story is it's is. it is one

31:36

that still a difficulty seems to me

31:38

will never be the same again with

31:40

all this satellite. Constellation Interference were learning

31:42

how to deal with it and and

31:44

and I think forging very good relationships

31:47

with the Space industry. How the space

31:49

industries listening to this got a subset

31:51

to be a winner and spent on

31:53

let's hope the You In works faster

31:55

than than Arrows in traffic authorities here

31:57

in New South Wales who have just

31:59

agree that we should register horse drawn

32:01

vehicles. A

32:04

T S good. How about open

32:06

sell some spots Mans? A Yeah

32:08

it is interesting news and you

32:10

can not find it more at

32:13

the International Astronomical union.org website out

32:15

That wraps it up Fred I'm

32:17

just a reminder to if you

32:20

want to listen to Space nuts

32:22

Q and I that will be

32:24

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32:43

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32:47

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32:49

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32:51

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