0:00

There's. Something beautiful about interactive

0:02

game play that draws young

0:04

people and to thinking about

0:06

complex topics like narrative design

0:09

like identity like character building,

0:11

like complicated storytelling that's not

0:13

linear and all of those

0:16

things line up to a

0:18

common core standards which is

0:20

amazing. Welcome. To speaking of

0:22

psychology, I'm Kim Mills. This

0:25

week we're continuing our two part

0:28

series on the human side of

0:30

Technology. In January, a Ph joined

0:33

the Consumer Technology Association had C

0:35

E S the world's largest technology

0:37

trade show for a series of

0:40

discussions about how artificial intelligence, virtual

0:42

reality, digital health apps, and other

0:45

tech developments are shaping human behavior

0:47

and about how psychological science can

0:49

help shape more ethical and effect

0:52

of technology. Afterward,

0:54

we caught up with some

0:56

of the panelists for extended

0:58

conversations. This week we're bringing

1:00

you are discussion with Developmental

1:02

Psychologist Dr. Susan Rivers, executive

1:04

director and chief scientist at

1:06

I Thrive Games, a nonprofit

1:08

organization that develops video games

1:10

to advance teens, mental health

1:12

and social emotional learning. Before

1:15

joining, I thrive. Doctor. River

1:17

served on the research faculty at

1:19

Yale University for over a decade

1:21

and was a cofounder of the

1:23

Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence. I

1:25

talked with her about why video

1:28

games can be such an effective

1:30

vehicle to reach kids, how to

1:32

design games that are both entertaining

1:34

and educational, and how parents can

1:36

balance screen time concerns with a

1:38

recognition of the important role these

1:40

games can play in their kids'

1:42

lives. Here's our discussion:

1:44

if you want to hear more

1:46

from Doctor Rivers and the other

1:49

Psychologists who spoke at C S,

1:51

you can find all the talks

1:53

at cesapa.org. Well Doctor

1:56

Rivers, I want to thank you for joining

1:58

me today here at C S. Really

2:00

great that you're able to join us

2:02

and be on a power here with

2:04

us this afternoon and we're gonna talk

2:06

a little bit about what you do

2:09

as or the head of a an

2:11

organization that creates James Gaming for good

2:13

and your organization is I Thrive Games

2:15

I want to know what is gaming

2:17

for good and wire video games A

2:19

good way to teach kids and seems

2:22

social emotional skills and mental health lessons

2:24

break the questions and such an honor

2:26

to be here. I had such a

2:28

great time on the panel. Said thank

2:30

you very much for for. Inviting

2:33

the to be with here with you.

2:35

Today said gaming for good It is

2:37

really how do we think a bow

2:39

and design and games that support. Young

2:41

people in their development towards

2:43

thriving. And so had

2:46

a we won design learning

2:48

experiences or Just experiences That

2:51

Inglis experiences are learning experiences

2:53

that. Integrate.

2:56

Knowledge and understanding the science of

2:58

the team brain. The science of

3:00

were teens are in. Terms of

3:02

their mental health, they're learning

3:04

their identity for me, san

3:06

the importance of such a

3:08

relationship into the design. A

3:11

digital experience for them,

3:13

That's. It invites. Them

3:15

to interact with a game

3:17

space with other players. that

3:20

one helps them discover who

3:22

they are and with a

3:25

light. On. Different

3:27

aspects of their cells that

3:29

maybe they haven't explored before.

3:31

I've few that bring some

3:33

joy and where they have

3:35

fun at three. Ideally where

3:37

they are interacting with others

3:40

and swarming memories together in

3:42

that place face and getting

3:44

to know. Each other. Doing

3:47

what it what matters in relationship building

3:49

and can accents and also I think

3:51

that games are really great place and

3:54

giving for good as a really great

3:56

place to really sink a bow and

3:58

designed for the. Competencies that young

4:01

people need to develop during adolescence

4:03

and other really ripe to develop

4:05

during adolescence and have a space

4:08

to practice. those in places that

4:10

are it a space that is

4:12

some fun and where it invites

4:15

failure because it's through failure that

4:17

we learn and so through failure

4:19

we learn and we build and

4:22

we go back at it and

4:24

practice again in so that space

4:26

of the digital space of play.

4:30

Creates. The opportunity to level

4:32

up your skill sets an

4:34

as get towards mastery and

4:36

at that that continuous developments.

4:38

Right, Which is a classic feature of a

4:40

game, how you keep people engaged that you

4:42

have to be working toward something. That's right.

4:44

That's right. So one of the things that

4:46

you said on On the Pound today was.

4:50

That you have To me, games

4:52

that don't feel like chocolate covered

4:54

broccoli? How do you do that?

4:56

How do you develop a game

4:58

that is both entertaining an educational?

5:00

Sure. So we're working. In a

5:02

space that is Either word more

5:04

upfront about. Learning and not

5:06

too sexy. Do you want to learn?

5:09

We don't hide die in the educational.

5:11

Learning. Games that we creates. We

5:13

invite young people and to say

5:15

helpless think about what are the

5:18

skills that matter to them, what

5:20

are the skills that they need

5:22

and the world that they identifies

5:24

but also that me see as

5:26

being necessary for. Whether

5:28

it's English language arts,

5:30

or civics or democracies,

5:32

or ah, Looking

5:36

at an evaluating the validity of of

5:38

media or seek news and we work

5:40

with among we connect with them about

5:43

what are some of the skills that

5:45

you have, Would he sees you need,

5:47

how might you develop these and then

5:50

how can we create a context that's

5:52

interesting and relevant to you? Answer three

5:54

that code design process. we think about

5:57

fun, We think about their strengths and

5:59

we designed. Both of those. Within

6:01

the context that were working and whether

6:03

it's. And media

6:05

literacy or. Relationship Healthy relationship building

6:07

whenever the context and so he pair

6:10

those things together to meet continually

6:12

bring content and aspects of the game

6:14

too young people for their feedback on

6:16

and they they wanna learn. They

6:18

want to develop the skills and they

6:21

want to be asked about how best

6:23

to do s and so it's

6:25

through that partnership. That were able

6:27

to create what's hot chocolate covered

6:29

broccoli by a meaningful, engaging learning

6:31

experience. More. About

6:34

vantage point of the educators whom

6:36

would be using these games that

6:38

were do involve them in the

6:40

process we try to and vile

6:42

involve. Them all along the way

6:44

as well. It's it's actually sometimes

6:46

more difficult to get ah educators

6:48

at the table. We put so

6:50

much stress on our educators in

6:52

terms of the things we want

6:54

them to be doing in the

6:56

classroom in school settings The that

6:58

a lot of luck and bringing

7:00

together educators to sit on advisory

7:02

panels on. We're launching a new

7:04

Game Design projects. We have a

7:06

group of educators that we've been

7:09

working with over the years that

7:11

we can call upon. And ask for

7:13

their advice or their input about how would

7:15

you use S Would you use this? What

7:17

would get your way of using this game?

7:19

What would you need to now and and

7:21

we need to do battle better job of

7:23

that. We need to be reaching out to

7:25

more more educators as we do this and

7:27

that. one of the challenges with. Inviting

7:30

educators into these new technologies, they

7:32

don't always have the systems in

7:34

place that support them to be innovative,

7:37

to take risks to have club classrooms

7:39

that are allowed our game play offs

7:41

and elicits our conversations and laughter. Enjoy!

7:44

And schools often don't embrace that. Cinema

7:46

in the classroom Said what Keepers and

7:48

I had a focus on the material.

7:51

Let me talk to you or are

7:53

you arm and I'll tell you

7:55

what you need to now and bringing

7:57

games. Into the classroom. Disrupt that. And

8:00

I can be scary and frightening

8:02

for adults in the space you

8:04

have examples of some favorite games

8:06

is that you would share with

8:08

us? Sure! So. I'm

8:11

turning said she's some other games that we don't. Or

8:13

other doesn't are out. There are both a

8:15

little above all. start with one that we

8:17

used in one of our first curriculum that

8:19

we created. So I was really

8:22

surprised to see when I came. To

8:24

I thrive About eight years ago

8:26

where game had had gotten to.

8:28

I grew up. In the

8:30

eighties and early nineties playing

8:32

yeah, Donkey Kong and Frogger

8:34

we had Atari when I

8:36

was growing up to. This

8:39

is old school video games

8:41

and when you look at

8:43

what's available right now the

8:45

catalogue of beautiful games that

8:47

are out there that are

8:49

selling really rich, complex story

8:51

is using really incredible graphics

8:54

and visuals but also storytelling

8:56

techniques that invite players. Ends:

8:58

You look at the world through characters'

9:00

eyes are interact with belongings in a

9:02

space as a way to do storytelling.

9:04

The one of the games that we've

9:07

found early on is called what Remains

9:09

is either sense. This is an award

9:11

winning game as a storytelling game and

9:13

you sort of walk through this man

9:15

san that belongs to the main character

9:18

Edith Sense and in each room in

9:20

the Manson you're looking to uncover would

9:22

is the story of. The. Person who

9:24

lived in this room by looking

9:26

at the artifacts they left behind.

9:28

What can I discover of the

9:30

story of this person? And so

9:32

we do. Two. Things came up

9:34

for us when we saw that one is

9:37

what does and a person's identity isn't mean.

9:39

And how could you understand a person's identity

9:41

from the artifacts that are in their space?

9:44

And what stories can you tell

9:46

them? what richness is there in

9:48

the context where person resides and

9:50

what's missing? And so in

9:52

adolescence, there's such a richness of that

9:54

worse of identity for me, since I'm

9:56

that happens during the adolescent years that

9:59

there's an immediate. Accents you looking at

10:01

this game through the lens of who am

10:03

I, Who am I was in, who I

10:05

present to the world's the outside world, and

10:07

who am I in my private spaces And

10:09

how to those go together And how to

10:12

those sometimes. Not go together and and

10:14

that also linked up to add.

10:16

Looking at say I'm Elaine learning.

10:18

Standards for high school in. That

10:21

narrative storytelling An. Odd.

10:24

Describing. Place and in

10:26

many other things I mean there were

10:28

dozens of different lines from the Common

10:30

Core. For example, that we could have

10:32

pulled an as learning objectives for That's

10:34

so that game created such. A rich

10:37

opportunity to talk about

10:39

storytelling to explore I'm

10:41

character. And identity for me sad, really

10:43

give a hook to young people. To

10:46

have those really rich conversations in

10:48

the classroom I'm an impromptu them

10:50

to tell their own stories so.

10:52

What remains of the it's is

10:55

a fantastic game that tell stories

10:57

you're interacting with s it's compelling.

10:59

It's surprising you're on edge when

11:01

you're like and been mystery arm

11:03

when you're going through at on

11:05

that opens the door. So many

11:07

different. Kinds of conversations on.

11:10

And depending on who's who you're playing it

11:12

with, what's new, conversations will happen because everyone

11:14

will find a different piece that really connects

11:16

to them. and that's where that richness in

11:18

that relationship telling them. To

11:20

really love that game. So how does that

11:23

then tie in with the learning objectives? of

11:25

the teacher might house. Yeah so that's

11:27

where the the english. Language Arts

11:29

Learning Standard Command. So whenever we

11:31

design, whether were playing a game off the

11:33

south that someone else has created or were

11:35

designing one. With a partner we look to

11:38

see and this is where we work closely

11:40

with educators. Would you need to to? It's

11:42

not had any. Did Egypt at what are

11:44

you need to teach? What's the core thing

11:46

you need to teach when you're teaching the

11:49

Cold War, when you're interested, or when you're

11:51

teaching. Ah, about the amendments of the Constitution

11:53

on. and so we look at national standards

11:55

we look at state standards for that we

11:58

do interviews with teachers who identify What

12:01

learning objectives do we need to hit in

12:03

designing the game, but also the surrounds that

12:05

go around the game? How do you introduce

12:07

the game? What preparation do you need to

12:09

do before you play it? What

12:12

really matters during gameplay? How do you want

12:14

to set that up so that students are

12:16

prepared to look for, understand, play

12:18

with, the core thing that you're really

12:20

looking for them to learn

12:22

and understand and unpack? And then how do you...

12:26

What's the campfire postgame, meaning after you've played,

12:28

what do we talk about? How do we

12:30

talk about what's in there? And

12:33

so those learning objectives become the

12:35

thread throughout both the design process

12:37

of the game itself or

12:39

in selecting the game, as well as

12:41

the curricular surrounds that we build within four

12:43

teachers to use in this space. So

12:46

how does this work in a classroom? Does the

12:48

classroom need to have some kind of a big

12:50

screen TV that every kid is looking at and

12:52

then they're playing at their desk? I mean, how

12:54

does it work in real life? Yeah,

12:56

so every classroom is different. Many

12:59

classrooms have things like smart

13:01

boards and projectors, so... And

13:04

sometimes they just have one computer or one

13:07

device to play on. And so a lot

13:10

of the work that we've done around

13:12

supporting teachers to bring games into their

13:14

classroom are play guides.

13:17

So if your classroom setup has A, B,

13:19

and C, here's what you can do. If you have X, Y,

13:21

and Z, here's what you can do. If you have

13:23

none of those things, here's some other options. And

13:26

so sometimes they do group gameplay where one

13:28

person has the controller, one student in the

13:31

classroom has the controller and everyone else is

13:33

watching. And often the watchers

13:35

get more into it than even the person at the

13:37

controller. So setting up the

13:39

context rate is really important. Sometimes they

13:41

play at home as part of homework and then they

13:43

bring in things to talk about. So

13:46

there's lots of different options. A

13:49

lot of classrooms do have Chromebooks, so we always design

13:51

for Chromebooks. A lot of students

13:53

have their cell phones, so we also... When

13:56

we're building our own games, we often

13:58

design for mobile. so that students

14:00

can use what they have in the classroom. But

14:03

it's definitely a challenge because every school is

14:05

really different in terms of what access they

14:07

have to resources and the level

14:09

of broadband or the different things that they,

14:13

you know, allow or prohibit bringing into

14:15

the school. That

14:18

raises the question of another

14:20

topic that you talked about on

14:23

the panel, which had to do with the roadblocks

14:25

that you're getting from educators. How

14:28

are you getting around these roadblocks?

14:30

What is it that you could do to

14:33

make things easier? Are you working with teachers'

14:36

unions, associations of principals?

14:39

I mean, how do you kind of

14:41

convince people that this is an

14:44

effective route for teaching children important things?

14:46

Yeah, we have a lot more work

14:48

to do in that space for sure.

14:50

We are a really small team and

14:52

we are designers. We're designers first. And

14:54

we're always thinking about how can we design something

14:57

that will be used in the classroom that really

14:59

matters to us. And there

15:01

are so many barriers in the way.

15:04

And so what we've started to do

15:06

is work with organizations that have either

15:09

inroads into classrooms themselves or are working

15:11

with young people outside of the school

15:14

space. So in community spaces or

15:16

direct to teen access to games

15:19

and really thinking about how can we

15:21

design what's best for that, for the

15:23

different environments or contexts that our partners

15:25

are working in. And then they are

15:28

responsible for making sure it works in the

15:30

spaces they're in. A

15:32

lot more work needs to be done in

15:35

helping school communities,

15:39

the organizations that run schools,

15:41

you know, administrators, school boards,

15:43

to really understand the value of

15:45

games in learning and the potential for

15:47

games in learning because there

15:50

are so many systemic structures in

15:52

the way of teachers being

15:54

able to play with games in the

15:56

classroom and really leverage their power for

15:58

engagement. And, you know,

16:01

there's the saying of people who work in schools, once you've

16:03

been to one district, you've been to

16:05

one district. You've been to that one district.

16:07

Every district is really so different and has

16:09

different needs and requirements and budget constraints.

16:13

So many organizations that are designing

16:15

games or different tech for schools really

16:17

run into a lot of barriers trying

16:19

to make that happen. And

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17:44

Elevate your career today. A

17:47

lot of parents are concerned that their children are

17:50

already spending a whole lot of their free

17:52

time playing games. Is that

17:54

another barrier you're facing where parents are saying, I don't

17:57

want my kid to go to school to play games?

17:59

He's already playing games. games all night at

18:01

home. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think that

18:03

we have this games have a

18:06

dirty reputation I think in

18:09

our culture of being a waste

18:11

of time, not useful, you

18:13

know, why can't you do something else

18:15

important. And I think that some

18:17

of that, there is some truth

18:19

to some of that. And where

18:23

I get to is, well let's get

18:25

curious. Why are kids playing games a

18:27

lot? Why are they on their phones

18:29

or why are they on their gaming

18:31

platform instead of doing something else. Let's

18:34

get curious and ask them. And

18:37

when I've asked my children those questions,

18:40

it really varies. Sometimes they're bored. And so then

18:43

we have conversations about, well what else could we

18:45

do? What would really get you energized? What would

18:47

be another choice that you have? Or what can we

18:49

do together so that

18:51

you're not bored and turning to something sort of mindlessly.

18:54

Other times, I have a son

18:56

who plays a lot of games. He's hanging out

18:58

with friends. So they are, you

19:01

know, parallel playing inside Fortnite or another game

19:03

and they're having lots of side conversations. And

19:05

that's how a lot of people hang out. They have,

19:08

you know, interesting, emotional,

19:11

or fun, or you know just catching up

19:13

conversations while they're doing something else. And that's really

19:15

important. And I don't want to take that away

19:17

from my son because that matters to him.

19:19

He's also figuring stuff out, like how would

19:22

I build this game? How does this mechanic

19:24

work? How do I get better at doing

19:27

whatever the building, or the jumps, or the

19:29

complicated mechanics of this game? So he's also

19:31

pushing himself to develop more and more skills.

19:33

And I see that play out in his

19:36

storytelling, how he thinks about the world, how

19:38

he builds things in his own outside of

19:40

the game space. And so I

19:42

think getting curious about how, why our kids are

19:44

turning to games, not chastising them

19:46

for choosing games is something they're spending time on.

19:48

Because when we do that, if it's something they

19:51

really care about, and they connect to, or they

19:53

identify with, if we tell them it's a waste

19:55

of time, we're sending them the message

19:57

that we don't value what's

19:59

important to them. them that we don't see

20:01

the intrinsic value that they see in

20:03

this thing. We're judging

20:05

it and they'll internalize that and that's

20:07

really dangerous. We don't want to do that.

20:11

So there's I think having a healthy

20:13

balance of gameplay and non-gameplay time but

20:16

let's not criticize our kids for playing games. Let's

20:18

get curious. Let's play with them. Let's

20:20

have them teach us how to play. Let's

20:22

discover what they love about it. How do you

20:24

pick your games? How do you learn how to play? How

20:26

do you figure out what you're going to play with your friends as

20:28

a way to get to know them as a way to get to

20:31

spend time with them? How do

20:33

you use your background as a psychologist

20:35

to develop good games? What are you

20:37

relying on that you learned in grad

20:39

school and in your work subsequent to

20:41

that? Every

20:44

day I pull on things

20:46

that I've learned over the last 25 years

20:48

as a social psychologist in the space of

20:50

emotional intelligence and social emotional learning. It

20:55

fuels good design. So

20:57

a really compelling game understands

21:01

what feelings the

21:03

player needs to feel to really deeply

21:05

engage with the

21:08

content or the game mechanics.

21:10

So in the design choices that

21:12

my team and I are making in the games

21:14

that we're creating, I'm really thinking

21:17

about what's the emotional journey that we want to

21:19

bring our young people on in this game. What

21:21

kind of cognitive process do we want them

21:24

to activate in this? Is there too much

21:26

happening? And so they can't dig into the

21:28

details or is there not enough happening so

21:30

that they can't brainstorm. So

21:33

what are the behaviors or thinking processes

21:35

or feelings that are

21:37

important in this moment in the game?

21:40

And then how do we design with

21:42

that in mind to make the design

21:44

choices that help to fuel that

21:47

state for the player? But

21:49

also what are the skills that player that

21:51

we want our learners to develop and

21:54

work through or practice in the game?

21:57

And so turning to the literature and self-regulation.

22:00

or turning to the literature on managing

22:02

stress, or what does stress do to decision

22:05

making? We want

22:07

our young people to learn how to make thoughtful

22:10

decisions using a process. Can they do that

22:12

without stress? And then can they do that

22:14

with stress? And so

22:16

we look towards the scientific findings

22:18

for the different kinds

22:20

of impacts external events have

22:23

on emotions, thinking processes, and

22:25

use that in game

22:27

design. But also, what are the skills a

22:29

young person needs to be able to do

22:31

a thing related to mental

22:34

health, related to learning content, related

22:36

to becoming a

22:38

diplomat? We're building a game right now on diplomacy and

22:40

training young people how to be diplomats in this game.

22:42

A lot of people could use that. A lot of

22:44

fun, yes. So

22:48

how do you recruit your game reviewers?

22:51

I mean, I'm asking for our listeners who may

22:53

be interested. There could be some people who are

22:55

listening to this podcast saying, wow, I'd really like

22:57

to get in on this and have

22:59

a hand in how these games are developed. Yeah,

23:02

great. We are always looking for

23:05

young people to play test and design with us.

23:07

And so we have a teen hub where

23:09

we reach out and recruit young people

23:11

to be experts for us with

23:13

us. And so we will engage

23:15

them through, we

23:18

do online brainstorming, play testing,

23:20

prototyping sessions, where we bring game

23:22

concepts to them, and they

23:24

tear them apart and help us build them back up. Or

23:27

we will go into it. We were just in the

23:29

classroom on Friday in Queens,

23:31

New York. And we brought a

23:34

slice of the Cold War game that we're

23:36

building right now. So two

23:38

acts of that game. It's a three act game.

23:41

And we set them up in gameplay

23:43

groups. And they played through it. And we watched

23:45

them play to see, were they getting bored? Were

23:48

they seeing the things we wanted them to see?

23:50

Were they interacting in the way that we wanted

23:52

them to interact? And then

23:54

they gave us a whole bunch of feedback. This was

23:56

great. Changed this. I didn't like that. Weren't sure what

23:58

to do here. Into that was

24:00

all then folded into the I'm That refinements

24:03

on the game that were doing so all

24:05

along the way from when were trying to

24:07

come up with a new idea for a

24:09

game arm to when we have a prototype

24:12

that were testing and collecting see back on.

24:14

We always need a young people on to

24:16

do that work with us and we really

24:18

value the experience of days and expertise that

24:21

they bring to us. We pay them for

24:23

their times no matter what they're experts, we

24:25

need their implants and so we make sure

24:27

that we are on validating the input that.

24:30

They're giving us by paying them for. Their time

24:32

Just as we would expect to be paid

24:34

if we are providing expertise on a project

24:36

for someone else and we. Also. Make

24:38

sure that we are designing

24:40

that, whatever the plates fast. Are.

24:42

Brainstorming session is has an emotional

24:44

journey and a learning journey for

24:46

the young people. Whether it's forty

24:48

five minutes or three hours, we

24:51

want them to learn something through

24:53

out that process, on whether it's

24:55

brainstorming techniques or arms different ways

24:57

to grapple with designing for a

24:59

specific. Skill sets on really thoughtful about

25:01

how can we be giving something to

25:03

them while they're giving us. So much

25:05

of their attention and expertise. Com

25:08

Uma ask a really wacky question that maybe

25:10

we'll throw out may be removed. We're

25:14

here in Las Vegas where

25:16

people are playing games everywhere.

25:18

are you observing what these

25:21

people are doing? and are

25:23

these games have any value

25:25

whatsoever? Gray

25:27

question. So

25:29

I am. There's

25:32

a difference between game as occasions

25:34

and gaming. And so at.

25:36

and the way that I use those terms

25:38

at least is very different. So I see

25:41

game as a case and as what Vegas

25:43

is all about Sata We continually activate the

25:45

player to get them to want more to

25:47

play more, to not give up to continue

25:50

to give us our money. And so the

25:52

system in this space and I hope that

25:54

lightning bolts. Are not gonna come? In

25:57

Las Vegas on are really about.

26:00

Eating the player right? pretty

26:02

fun creating interaction, but also.

26:05

Wanting them to lose that we get their

26:07

money price on. And there's a

26:09

lot of different kinds of games

26:12

that are out there that are

26:14

using and exploiting reward system that

26:16

especially. For young people, there are merely are

26:19

looking for external rewards. In the really

26:21

activated by that's on and so

26:23

I don't like that. I don't

26:25

think that's a good use of

26:27

game mechanics, I think it's I'm

26:29

not very says it's sophisticated how

26:31

it's playing out but it's not

26:33

very interesting as a very creative

26:35

on and it's not sending a

26:37

a space that really supports young

26:39

people in all of their vulnerability

26:41

and all of their potential on.

26:44

And so when I think about

26:46

gaming I think gaming is missing

26:48

the space of gaming for goods.

26:50

On and even just gaming

26:52

for fun That. We

26:54

have the potential to captivate a

26:56

person's attention for specific period of

26:58

time. How can we make it

27:00

the most meaningful an experience for

27:02

them? On that.

27:05

Help. Them build something, help them develop

27:07

a still have some haven't ah experience

27:09

for they'd have an insight about who

27:11

they are, what they're about in the

27:13

world, or have an insight about someone

27:15

else that they're interacting with in the

27:17

game whether it's in real life or

27:19

terrorists are in the space. So I

27:21

think there's so much more creativity that

27:23

happens in the gaming space versus the

27:25

game as the case in space that.

27:28

Pulls on so much of

27:30

the Us and translates said

27:32

the as like college. he.

27:35

To really unpack and tap into human

27:37

experience and hope I'm in not. Young

27:39

people thrive so that's what we're about.

27:41

As when I get excited about. Are

27:45

you mentioned that you working on a game

27:47

about the Cold War? Anything else in the

27:49

offing that you want a preview here? Yeah

27:52

so I'm really excited about our Cold War

27:54

game were doing as six week unit on

27:56

the Cold War that culminates in this Cold

27:58

War simulation. So. Students players in

28:00

night on curricular units. High school students

28:03

will develop their skills for just the

28:05

policy and they wanted right about them.

28:07

The launch of Think About at The

28:09

Have to enact Them and. Real world.

28:12

Simulated experience. Really excited about that's

28:15

on. The were also putting

28:17

the finishing touches. On a project

28:19

we've been working on. Which

28:21

is odd Department of Homeland Security

28:23

through funding from them to. Think

28:25

about this phase of young

28:28

people were recruited into violent

28:30

extremist organizations and had a

28:32

we are. Said.

28:35

It's supporting young people in identifying

28:37

sad the early signs of that.

28:39

Recruitment on that happens in a

28:41

lot of these online spaces. It's

28:44

a real i'm really upsetting

28:46

space and young people are

28:48

especially vulnerable to someone says

28:50

she when they're feeling vulnerable.

28:52

Themselves are feeling like they don't belong. Which

28:54

so many of our young people do. We

28:56

all day when we were young see us

28:58

as part of adolescence. And diet

29:00

vulnerability is the x it being

29:03

exploited by. These recount

29:05

recruitment organizations. And on

29:07

an athlete really bad outcomes for

29:09

for young people in communities and

29:12

so in this game or really

29:14

looking at how do we? Young.

29:17

People who are observing that happening to

29:19

a friend or someone they now and

29:21

give them the tools to potentially interrupt

29:23

that process. What are the things you

29:26

might say? What are some signs you

29:28

can. Look. For on how might

29:30

you approach your your friends

29:32

on. and see the right thing

29:34

or say something not on that might

29:37

connect with them and help them choose

29:39

a different and chef at different path.

29:42

Will.rivers on thank you for joining

29:44

me here today and will thank

29:46

you for being part of a

29:48

Ph presence as Cs to pleasure

29:50

think you so much. You can

29:52

find previous episodes of Speaking of

29:54

Psychology on our website at www.speaking

29:56

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30:06

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30:08

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30:10

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30:14

Psychology produced by Li wine him and

30:17

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30:19

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30:21

American Psychological Association. Find some Mills.